Nice article on RG3 possibly being better than Newton. It is pay article, so beware. Here is what I thought was the most interesting point:
In his 2010 Heisman Trophy-winning campaign with the Auburn Tigers, Newton averaged 9.3 yards per attempt (YPA) in games against opponents from BCS conferences. He also tallied a 12.9 vertical YPA (vertical defined as passes thrown 11 or more yards downfield) and a 15.5 stretch vertical YPA (aerials thrown 20 or more yards).
All of those are superb totals, but contrast them with the 2011 totals posted by Griffin in games against opponents from BCS conferences: 10.7 overall YPA (tops in the FBS), 16.0 vertical YPA and 23.0 stretch vertical YPA. Each of Griffin's marks is appreciably better than Newton's. While Griffin may not have the shiftiness Newton possesses, he is a terrific scrambler in his own right with elite speed that defenses must respect.
One of the likely reasons for the statistical edge is that the Baylor Bears' offense had more pro-style tendencies than the run-heavy spread offense Newton played in at Auburn. That allowed Griffin to attack defenses in a wider variety of ways than Newton was able to and should help reduce his pro transition time.
Joyner goes on to discuss the idea of RG3 on the Browns, note the Shurmur comments:
The Browns' offense has played it very close to the vest play calling-wise the past couple of seasons, but a lot of that has to do with having dink-and-dunk master Colt McCoy under center. Head coach Pat Shurmur has a long history of working with aggressive pass offenses, and when that is added to the rumors that the Browns are looking to upgrade at wide receiver, Cleveland could be a great situation for Griffin.
Overall, a very good read.
Didn’t really read the whole thing but love what’s posted here. Other than size, Griffin is a much better passer, more accurate, smarter and better ethics. I love that this guy realizes Shurmur and Childress spent the best parts of their careers with Donovan McNabb, who Griffin is similar too coming out of college, but again, probably has better accuracy and touch, and will pass first before running.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Every time I come here, I get talked into loving RG3 more.
DisplacedBuckeye - February 8, 2012
It’s very easy.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
I’ll probably have a pillow of him by the time the draft comes around.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
You could just borrow mine.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
I have a feeling a lot of people around here are going to be extremely devastated if someone ends up out bidding us and we draft Blackmon. I really want RG3, but there are others I’ll be happy with.
Jon @ DBN - February 8, 2012
Really want him but if someone trades the farm for RGIII, I’ll chill in my apartment studio, invite Blackmon over for a drink and laugh.
SpecialBrownie - February 8, 2012
I’ll be disappointed, to be sure. I’ll most likely be happy with whoever we take though. I just think Griffin represents the best chance to upgrade our team a considerable amount in the near and far term.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
Devastated? No. Disappointed? Yes.
We need a QB.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
I agree. Perhaps I overestimated the RG3 love.
Jon @ DBN - February 8, 2012
this
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Ryderdrumr
We have a QB! don’t blame him for the coaching staff’s failures.
Ryderdrumr - February 9, 2012
Thank you Ryderdrumr.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 9, 2012
I’m laughing.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 9, 2012
Dawg Nuts
This is a ridiculous statement.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
Gradysmanldy
I can blame both the QB for his failures AND the coaches for theirs. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Gradysmanldy - February 9, 2012
Bross
Bross
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Adrock2099
Adrock2099 agrees with both Gradysmanldy and Dawg Nuts.
Adrock2099 - February 9, 2012
Bross
Bross agrees with both Bross and Bross
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Simms
Jon @ DBN agrees with Si… wait wait?!
Jon @ DBN - February 9, 2012
I’ld be OK, I still think there is a chance Colt could develop into a better passer, but it feels like taking the bus when there’s a Porsche parked in your drive way.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
The Browns’ offense has played it very close to the vest play calling-wise the past couple of seasons, but a lot of that has to do with having dink-and-dunk master Colt McCoy under center.
Will better WR OL change this however. or is this a play calling issue…this bothered me a lot last season….hardly any throws downfield…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
It seems to me the author thinks the blame lies with McCoy, and not the receivers or play calling.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
Good question, answer is D, all of the above?
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
I think it’s clear our receivers suck and it’s clear McCoy did not play well. It is not clear our play calling was bad, it could just be execution. Keep in mind I’m no fan of Pat Shurmur.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I cried for a week when he was named head coach….as for what we need, I like to see and upgrade on the OL to give him more time to throw. Steinback coming back helps if he has healed. Does anyone know what kind of back surgery he had, lamenectomy/diskectomy or was it a spinal fusion of one of the lower vertebrae?
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
JustBob - February 9, 2012
nice
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
HELLO CLEVELAND!!!
I should go outside naked in the cold and yell that.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Ryderdrumr
The Browns could go a long way with Colt if they would get another lineman so he isn’t running for his life or flat on his back and a real receiver to throw to. Not to mention the OC’s lack of imagination.
Ryderdrumr - February 9, 2012
Thank you Ryderdrumr. By the way, most QBs don’t have an all-world Left Tackle, a Pro Bowl Center and three other decent linemen. A QB needs to be able to succeed with the O-line we had — it was far from a bad offensive line.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 9, 2012
I tend to agree with Ryderdrumr here. Even Mike Holmgren said we need someone to throw to and a bit more protection.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 9, 2012
Well pretty much every team could use a bit more protection. That doesn’t mean what we had was bad, it just means it could be better.
I won’t argue that our receivers suck.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
And once again...
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
I would never want to accuse you of bias, Ryderdrumr, but here was your first post on DBN, after the Browns drafted McCoy:
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
At least you didn’t say “crusted pillow”.
In all seriousness, this is why I really think that we will need to trade up for RGIII. If Luck wasn’t around with the most hype since Elway, (overshadowing Manning), we would be baraged by hype over RGIII. Prolly a little better prospect than Cam given accuracy and track background. At one time, he would have posted in the 4.3s in the 40. Then football happened.
realmccoy - February 8, 2012
I like him better than Luck. His speed and ability to scramble will drive defensive coordinators nuts.
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I know, at least while he’s learning the pro game he’s still a weapon with his legs. You have to spy him or so something to try and contain him on 3rd and long because if you squat at the line he’ll beat you deep, you don’t and he’ll run for 15 yrds.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
, you don’t and he’ll run for 15 yrds
I hate it when they do that. I want one… to terrorize our enemies..lol
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
It’s so demoralizing, you have everything covered perfectly and then the guy just runs up and gets a first.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
it’s not fair at all..unsportsman like if you ask me
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
So what happens if we do draft rg3? Does he come in and start from day one? Would we trade Colt? I can’t imagine Wallace would be fine moving to third string.
browns8 - February 8, 2012
I would think Wallace might just get cut.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
I think you are right with this.
SBP - February 8, 2012
Colt and RG3 compete for the starter position.
Cut Wallace. Let Thad Lewis be the 3rd string guy.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
Agree 100%. No matter how excited we are about RGIII there is always the risk that he doesn’t cut it. SD had Brees and Rivers coexist for a couple of years – and would suggest that we maximize our chance for a good QB solution by keeping both for as long as necessary. I am not saying that Colt and RGIII can be as good as those guys – but SD did not move on from Brees until they knew Rivers was really good. Guess they still screwed up – but they deserve some slack due to Brees shoulder injury.
realmccoy - February 8, 2012
I’d hope that essentially means RG3 starts by Week 1. I like making him earn the job, but I’d hope he’s better than Colt if we’re drafting him up there.
Jon @ DBN - February 8, 2012
Agree. If we draft RG3, then he has got to be the guy from day one. This organization won’t draft a qb they don’t like. We never made a move to get Clausen in 10, and we needed a qb more that year.
browns8 - February 8, 2012
And what happens if he is not better than Colt? Just saying… everyone here will look like idiots if we draft him, give up the farm and he crashes and burns.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
we bitch and moan and watch another head coach come in in two years
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Lol, o.k.. Next question…what about all the potential starters we would have given up for Griffin? Seems to me we would be still further away from having the chance to be a good team.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
there is FA to consider…{so many scenario’s, yeah = more chat, fun for me… :) }
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
look at it the other way. Do you think the Giants are worried about what potential starters they gave up for Eli? maybe they worried about it in 2006, but not anymore.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
what would you give for RG3? assuming you are on the RG3 bandwagon…hmmm?
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I would deal both firsts this year in a heartbeat.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
me too.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Both #1’s this year and next years 3rd would be my offer.
Kimble_79 - February 9, 2012
I would do that, but only if the skins were trying to trade up.
rufio - February 9, 2012
But there wouldn’t really be any way to know that they were trying would there? I’d swap our 1st and throw in the 1st and 4th from ATL (it was a 4th this year, right?) and that would still leave us with one pick per round through the draft. That doesn’t seem to bad to me if the result is a true franchise QB.
JustBob - February 9, 2012
I mean you’d almost have to get WAS and STL on the phone with you at the same time.
I don’t know how trustworthy people are on the day of, but I would think if someone flat out lied to you it would be bad for business. If STL says WAS is offering 2×1s, then WAS says they don’t even want to trade up, something’s fishy and you get them to work it out in front of you.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Well, no, I suppose you’d never truly be able to trust what Washington’s offer was, but you’d definitely know they were trying to trade up. St. Louis would be foolish not to shop around and see if anyone can beat Washington’s offer.
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
Fisher and Shanahan are good friends, correct me if I am wrong…. something to consider..
Poppawolf - February 10, 2012
I don’t think it’s something to consider at all. If Fishe is going to make a decision to help out a friend on another team and not a decision that’s best for the Rams, he doesn’t deserve a job in the NFL.
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012
If Washington doesn’t have Manning, Flynn, etc. before the draft you have to assume they’re going to try and trade up. They actually have a half decent team besides QB and WR. That sounds familiar.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
some are saying that it might take 2 1st and a second rounder….maybe if we spread the picks over a couple of years, I could go for that..again we have needs in a lot of areas….I would be okay with giving away some high picks we got agressive in FA to compensate for the lack of picks. I am starting to think that we may have Colt around for another couple of years if RG3 asking price is too high.
Peyton may not be a factor in the upcoming drafts if what I heard is true that he cannot make throws to his left and he still has no velocity on his throws….
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Manning is medically cleared, he just physically can’t get the job done right now. He needs to heal, but someone will take that chance.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Its a chance you take, but one you have to sometimes. Like bross says above, many times the guys work out as expected and are good and others you get Ryan Leaf. Bring the guy in, run him through a gazillion drills, interview him and several people close to him, then if you think he’s it you pull the trigger and make the trade. Outside of being a fortune teller, there isn’t anything more we could do.
Kimble_79 - February 9, 2012
Not to mention another front office with a different strategy. We cannot keep swapping out front offices and coaching staffs the way we have. It is deffinently not good for the players, more so to the offense.
J. W. - February 9, 2012
not good for the fans either…any speculation if Childress is going to call the plays for our offense and how good is he? thanks..
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
I doubt he will call the plays but he’ll provide a great sounding board for the offensive staff during the week and he’ll help out during games.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Shumar is calling them as of today….O_o,
Poppawolf - February 10, 2012
Did we recently hire someone new?
Dawg Nuts - February 10, 2012
He’s in the “Harold and Shumar” movies.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
I’m awaiting next year’s release of “Harold and Shumar Go to The Super Bowl.”
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
Then we draft another.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
…and we keep drafting QB’s, in whatever round, until we find one that can actually prove to management that he can play at an ELITE level. Not ok, not “well if I get a few AJ green type receivers I can huck it up for them to go get” and certainly not anyone who could be a good GAME MANAGER.
Go out and get the guy that at least has the POTENTIAL to be elite, because without it, you aren’t winning a super bowl in this QB friendly league.
If you continue to bet the farm and suck until you find the one with the whole package at the NFL level, so be it. Rather than than average ass teams.
Gradysmanldy - February 8, 2012
That, along with Bernie’s comment are two of the most narrow-minded, ridiculous comments I have seen here. Great!! Let’s just keep giving all of our picks away until we find a franchise QB (in your minds the next Peyton Manning), then we will have a QB and nothing else. I’ll stick with H/H’s decision no matter what they decide, but you both have blinders on when it comes to Grifiin. Amazing.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
They wont trade the future. If Heckert can get who he wants he will but he wont mortgage the teams and his future for it. They wont give away too much. They are building a team. I think people may be dissapointed that big splash might not be made.
champion64 - February 8, 2012
My thoughts, too. I believe most here will be disappointed/angry and calling for H/H’s heads very soon.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
I’ve never been against RG3, I agree with c64 above and i’m thinking they should all get their reservations to Guyana now. Just my humble opinion.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
don’t forget your koolaid
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I think you should stuff your insults and read my post, again.
I said that you keep drafting quarterbacks in order to make sure that you have a QB that has the potential to perform at an elite level. I never claimed to say you should give away all your draft picks to do so. I wasn’t even discussing RGIII when I made that comment.
In the last 10 years, every super bowl has been won by a QB that is either elite or has the ability to play at an elite level. Before that it was possible to get there with game managers (The Hasselbecks, Dilfers, Gannons, etc) but the rules of the game have changed. Your chances of winning the chip without a guy at least CAPABLE of playing at an Eli-Manning-esque level are seriously low.
I’m willing to bet H+H can find that guy without mortgaging the farm.
Gradysmanldy - February 8, 2012
MY apologies. I wasn’t positive which way you were leaning with your comments, but now that you have clarified your position, I agree with you. I would not mortgage the farm for one ‘prospect’, when first round QB’s have only a 42% chance of making it to starter, much less elite status. Don’t ask, I don’t remember where I read the statistics, LOL.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
I don’t know what that means…
Brownie's Year - February 8, 2012
I wonder where Cousins will go this year?
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
Rehab
champion64 - February 8, 2012
LMAO
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
Actually those rumors have been proven untrue
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Glad to hear that.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
Disney World
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Finding sanity here.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
Last I checked, the “Elite” QB’s are usually in the top 3, so that means we are cintinual failures or we throw a ton of draft picks over and aover to get the potential talking head “Elite” QB’s.
J. W. - February 9, 2012
Want to point me to where I said any of that?
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
You didn’t. I looked.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
This made me laugh.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
I try.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
It’s narrow minded until you see the success rate for QBs not taken in the 1st.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
And really, what’s more narrow minded? Thinking we should try to improve from an average QB to a potential superstar or ruling out said potential star without providing any evidence, and even making stuff up, like we’re selling the farm.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
It isn’t about being blinded by Griffin, it’s about being aware of the fact that without a franchise QB, this team is going nowhere.
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
right on,,,oh, crap dated myself, I mean right arm brother, ah …never mind….I need a drink..ohh bartender…later everyone
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
suppose we do not draft RG3, does anyone see Colt suceeding with better receivers and OL line?
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I think he has a decent chance of succeeding with WR and OL help.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
If Colt is here I do think he should be a little better
champion64 - February 8, 2012
An off-season of classwork and OTA’s and training camp…yep, I believe he will improve with WR help, RB help and OL help.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
NO RG3
if I remember correctly, anytime the Browns did well in my past 50 years following the team, they had a decent running game. is getting Richardson at #4 a better option and picking up BPA WR @ 22? (like to throw a bone out there to see who bites…)
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
the game has changed in the last 50 years, unless it is an AP no brainer, you can fill in RB’s later or even unsigned: A Foster….use the top Draft picks on QB’s…and pray.
Red-Right-88 - February 8, 2012
Agreed. Even AP isnt worth a top 5 pick if you dont have a QB. Minnesota was only relevant with him when Favre was there…
-bobby- - February 9, 2012
I disagree with this.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
How? He’s right, having AP is nice, they never won anything with or because of him and now they’re going to be salary cap restricted with him and his bum knee.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
Adrian Peterson makes that team a playoff contender every year.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
So what if we took Richardson….? I know…..
The New Kardiac Kids - February 9, 2012
Trent Richardson is nowhere near as good.
notthatnoise - February 10, 2012
He made them a playoff contender every year for about 5 years. No longer.
Also, that defense probably had something to do with it.
rufio - February 10, 2012
RB’s are plug & play now. Upgraded WR’s and Good Quality Oline, yes QB will be better. How good who knows?
J. W. - February 9, 2012
Btw, if we get rid of a QB, I amd voting to boot Wallace. He has 9 years in the WCO and did NOT play better than Colt. That is pretty telling. Plus, he is older and was an unwilling mentor. That says alot about this character.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
Rather, the lack of character.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
agree
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I think it’s arguable as to whether or not he played better than Colt.
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
Very arguable. I put them about even, and let’s be clear that is not an indication that I think Wallace played well.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
I thought over all the team played better with Wallace in there. The receivers actually made their catches and in stride or in open windows.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Agree completely.
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
But if you are keeping only one of them on the roster, do you really keep Seneca?
rufio - February 9, 2012
Not at all, we should absolutely keep Colt. I was only disputing the fact that Seneca didn’t play better than Colt.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
Fair.
rufio - February 9, 2012
We lost a lot of close games this year. a little better helps us win those games?
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
We lost several just on STs. Fix that and score a few more TDs and you’re .500
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
I want to say our average margin of defeat was 8 points.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
St. Louis, Cincy I, Oakland, Cincy II, Arizona, baltimore II, pit II.
You can point to one play in each of those games that could have won it for us.
rufio - February 9, 2012
We could do the same thing in the opposite direction for our wins too.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I don’t dispute that with the exception of the Colts game, simply noting that we played a lot of tight games. If we make a few more plays, we’re in Cincy’s spot. If we make a few less plays, we’re in Indy’s.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Because of…?
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
lousy offense
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
Decent chance of succeeding? And because of that you wouldn’t trade a couple of picks to get someone better? It’s not like we can’t get him and add WR/OL help. We only need one of each.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
To a degree. I think he’ll be better, sure. I’m not sure that constitutes success though.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
In comparison, yes. I think he would do better with better weapons. But with better weapons, he’ll probably just be Kyle Orton.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
not bad…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
not likely to win a Super Bowl…
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
not good
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
but not something that you want as a long term option.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
add running back to last post…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
No.
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
Define succeeding.
rufio - February 9, 2012
the draft is never sure thing anyways…it’s always a crapshoot…the upside on having anf RG3 on our team is hard to ignore…I think Browns are instantly better with RG3 on the roster….come on you know you want one..(RG3) :)
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I don’t remember any discussion about giving up any farms? In fact I don’t think we even traded a pig yet.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
I’ll through in a cpouple of wild pigs from Hawaii…lol
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
throw in a couple….bartender, another please…where is spell check when u need it…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
Then we get another top-10 pick to use on another QB. Or Colt somehow became Drew Brees and we’re all set.
rufio - February 9, 2012
I hear they’re both short, so there’s no denying the eerily similar career path.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
Right, and its a stone cold lock that Colt will become that good.
rufio - February 9, 2012
Pop the champagne and start fitting for the rings.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
I really don’t see why its that important that he’s the day 1 starter or that he needs to be better than Colt, a guy who has started 20 games in the NFL.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Having a running threat with RG3 at quarterback will change the oppositions defensive game plan to contain him…hence more open receivers, assigning a OLB to spy him…etc…there are more game plan options with RG3 versus Colt. But ur right, he would have to beat Colt out of the starting position
You won’t get that with Colt starting..he does not scare anyone..
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I’m perfectly fine losing a few games early if he needs more time to develop.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
3rd string QB is always whatever for me. If we get to that guy, our season is down the toilet anyway.
Roger Dorn - February 8, 2012
That’s why I would rather it be some sort of young player with a high ceiling.
Best case scenario, he turns out to be a hidden gem and we could trade him down the road. Worst case, we replace him the following season.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
Texans disagree. I know they were 90% in but Yates got them the last couple of games to clinch it.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
This is another one of those exceptions rather than the rule.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I think against a tougher schedule down the stretch and a more competitive division, they would have missed.
Roger Dorn - February 9, 2012
What a fast Defense they have. wow
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
I still see McCoy being traded and Wallace starting the season if we draft RG3 or Luck
champion64 - February 8, 2012
I hope you are wrong. Time to get rid of Wallace.
OldTimeDawg - February 8, 2012
I dont like Wallace. Since he and Colt were a draw in ability this year, just a thought maybe Colt has trade value, Wallace has none
champion64 - February 8, 2012
cut
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
who cut? wallace or mccoy?
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Cut Wallace….. sorry my reply did not end up where it should have…kind of a newbie here…O_o
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
You would think that, but I am still wondering if they draft a QB they trade McCoy and start Wallace
champion64 - February 8, 2012
What would we get for McCoy anyways…5th or 6th rounder?
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
I would guess yes
champion64 - February 8, 2012
I would rather keep him. He’s a valuable backup.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
This.
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
If that’s the case, it would be silly to trade him now for such little value. Let him compete with a rookie QB in training camp. Since he already knows the offense, he should have a leg up and start the beginning of 2012. If he wins a few games, it only increases his trade value later on.
bbstirrd - February 8, 2012
that’s assuming he could compete with RG3….if we are going to spend two first round picks to get RG3, he better be able to start yesterday…anyways you look at it, this is going to be an interesting spring for the Browns…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
if we could get that, then it makes sense to keep Wallace as a backup, but he sure did not impress me with his play during the last part of the season…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
cut the one that costs more vs. cap
Red-Right-88 - February 8, 2012
if we can afford RG3
Truth and Rumors is speculating how many pics it would cost to get RG# if St. Louis were to auction their #2 pic in the Draft.
So what would it cost the Dolphins to rise from No. 8 or No. 9, depending on a coin toss, to No. 2? A lot. It will take at least two first round picks and probably closer to three first round picks. And it might actually take this years No. 1, next year’s No. 1, the 2014 No. 1 and possibly something else like a third or fifth rounder thrown in there.
Something to think about…let’s throw some gas on the fire here….
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
I cannot see anyone spending close to 3# 1’s for RG3…right?..really now…
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
That’s not realistic, it would be more like this and next years firsts, this years second and a third and fourth next year
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
I don’t see the dolphins moving up. at all. The rams are probably not going to trade out of the top 4 and certainly not going to trade out of the top 6-7.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Hey Poppa, I know you’re new around here, but we don’t use the subject line here.
That’s for Pittsburgh fans.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
ouch
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
One thing the excerpt ignores is the fact that Baylor also had their coaches call the offensive plays after the O and D were lined up. RG3 never had to read a D and adjust to it. Thats not going to happen in the pros and that is a huge red flag to me.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
I’m sure he can figure it out. It may take a season or so, but others have done better with less talent.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
I agree its possible. But its also possible he cant read a defense and all the athletic ability in the world wont help him then, especially in this division with some of the best defenses in the NFL (all 4 in the top 10 in YPG and PPG)
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
No I think the odds are he can based on film of him where the play breaks down and he has to look through a progression of receivers. Its not quite the same thing, but it shows his ability to see the field well and find the right target.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Either way, I think it’s a little picky to call an unknown a “major red flag.” Very few college QBs play in a pro system anymore. There were huge questions about Newton’s ability to read a defense (unlike Griffin no one is claiming Newton is a smart guy), and he did fine.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
and as has been said before, a lot of the Pro Style, under center guys haven’t faired well either. I think its really more about the combination of physical skill, determination and smarts.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Right, I think this is something us as fans will never be able to project, because we don’t get to sit down and watch film with these guys and have them explain what they’re doing. We will never know what kind of football smarts these guys have, all we can do is go with what the experts tell us.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
Additionally, RG3’s spread was more “pro-style” than Cam Newton’s.
rufio - February 9, 2012
just because he didn’t read the defense presnap, doesn’t mean he can’t. besides he’s a smart kid and he has Whipple, Childress, and Shurmur to teach him. and if he can’t figure it out right away, we have Colt.
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
I agree with this. Our staff is set up to groom a QB.
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
they are? I mean look at the wonders Pat did with Bradford……
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
We have, not only Shurmur, but like athensdawg said, Whipple and Childress, and I’d add Holmgren to that. Plus Bradford doesn’t have Joe Thomas to protect him, his line is crap compared to ours..
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
Childress has a track record of developing a QB? We are talking about the same Childress that “developed” Tarvaris Jackson right? I mean seriously. And considering Holmgren is not involved in our coaching at all I dont get why people bring him up about developing or drafting.
So Pat- Failed with the #1 overall pick in Bradford.
Chilly- Who traded up to get Tarvaris Jackson 2 rounds ahead of where he was projected and then failed to develop him.
And Whipple who I will give credit has worked with Big Ben but other then that…ehh
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
One season. Not to mention, Bradford looked much worse this season without Pat (although I attribute most of that to injuries.)
You also again overlook the fact that Shurmur worked with Donovan McNabb almost his entire career.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
Was McNabb really a great passer? 59% completion during his Philly career with 6.9 YPA which would have ranked him 20th this past NFL season.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
McNabb went to 4 NFC Championship games and one Superbowl, he was a very good quarterback one of the 5 or 6 best of the past 15 years
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Those are team accomplishments not QB accomplishments. They also had a pretty damn good defense the years they succeeded.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
Donovan McNabb went to the pro bowl 6 times, was NFC Offensive Player of the Year, He was also the NFC Player of the year. He took them to a Superbowl
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Pat was in Philly 02-08 working with McNabb.
02- 7th in QB Rating, 22nd in Completion %, 26th in yards, 17th in TDs,
03- 16th QB Rating, 19th completion %, 14th in yards, 17th in TDs
04- 4th QB Rating, 10th Completion %, 8th in Yards, 3rd in TDS
05- 16th QB Rating, 22nd completion %, 18th yards, 16th TDs
06- 4th QB Rating, 23rd Completion %, 20th in Yards, 13th in TDS
07- 9th in QB Rating, 20th completion %, 13th in Yards, 14th in TDs
08- 15th QB Rating, 18th completion %, 7th in yards, 8th in TD.
Outside of 04 when he had TO account for 1/3 of his yards and over 1/3 of his TDs McNabb was pretty average. He made Pro Bowls on his name, not on his play.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
He is in the top half in almost all of these categories. Stats mean very little anyway.
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
So top half is acceptable now? Alot of those years he was behind the likes of Tim Couch and Kelly Holcomb.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
Top half of the NFL is pretty good to me. You missed where I said stats don’t matter though.
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
2005 he was playing injured, so it’s not very objective to count that.
mcnabb had his best years under Shurmur, 4 of his best 5 seasons. Not only that, but he improved his play in the playoffs.
The reason he had success in the playoffs during that period is because he was playing great in the playoffs. Just in the year where he went to the SB, he completed 62% of passes, threw for about 280 ypg, and had 7 TDs to 3 INTs.
When the team fell short in 2000 and 2001, it was because of the mediocrity of mcnabb
I also love how you leave out the one stat (ypa) where he was consistently really good during shurmur’s time, despite it being vital anyways. showing your bias?
bross09 - February 8, 2012
not you Bross, I agree with you
champion64 - February 8, 2012
McNabb led his team to 4 NFC Chammpionships and 1 Superbowl, do you have that in there? Mr. Stat? Isnt that the name of the game
champion64 - February 8, 2012
not to mention the Eagles sucked for a long time pre-McNabb
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Looks like quite a few top 10s and a couple of top 5s. I would take that any day.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Also except for having TO his receivers sucked.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
You are also leaving out the fantastic TD-INT ratio.
Plus, the greatest excuse for the Colt lovers, outside of TO, he never had any weapons to work with.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
You are right. Only Tom Brady has a better interception ratio
Brady
McNabb
P. Manning
E. Manning
Favre
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Bradford> RG3>Luck
Red-Right-88 - February 8, 2012
Childress developed McNabb.
Shurmur had Bradford and went 8-8 in one year.
Brownie's Year - February 8, 2012
Forgot Shurmur worked with McNabb too.
Brownie's Year - February 8, 2012
…and Kolb.
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
Is that an accomplishment?
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
Kolb did pretty well when given the reigns, and he had a team with alot of talent.
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
He did? Because the Kevin Kolb I watched sucked it up in AZ and got outplayed by a 5th round draft pick.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
My reply fail was supposed to go here, sorry. I meant in Philly.
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
You just answered the question about whether or not our coaches can coach-up a QB, now that he doesn’t have them, he sucks. HA!
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
Or that QBs in Philly are system QBs and go on to suck everywhere afterwards.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
So why is it a bad thing that the Browns have brought the “system” here?
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
We have a winner.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 9, 2012
Such a short memory. I you think back a year or two Kolb was the most prized free agent QB based on several 400+ yrd efforts.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
7-9 not 8-8 and Bradfords rookie stats were comparable to Colt this past year.
Justin Kowalczyk - February 8, 2012
if we are all in agreement that Shurmur had too much on his plate, then the same can be said about Childress. Who was Jackson’s QB coach? OC?
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
Was Whipple with Holmgren when he had Hasslebeck?
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
…in Philly.
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
reply fail….
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
you realize that
a) where a guy is projected is irrelevant
b) Chilly isn’t the only proven “QB developer” that failed. He also had veteran Brad Johnson who was a mentor to Chris Simms, QB Coach Kevin Rodgers who developed mcnabb in colelge, and OC Bevell, who had been QB coach to Favre.
That’s about 4 of 5 safety nets for Tavaris of guys who can develop QBs. It is much more sensical to say he just sucks than several guys completely failed at their jobs.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
To be fair, he was poorly developed and Childress was a bad HC. But we’ve seen plenty of terrible HCs be awesome coordinators.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
maybe no one truly took it on themselves to develop him, but I don’t think he’d be good even if Holmgren was his QB Coach.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Also…giving up on Bradford early are we?
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Look at the wonder Pat did with Donovan McNabb.
You know, the guy he had for more than one season?
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
McNabb could keep the play alive because he was 245 lbs and hard to bring down. Here in Philly they dubbed him the Linebacking Quarteback. It was his strength.
champion64 - February 8, 2012
What does this have anything to do with how Shurmur developed him as a passer?
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
He loved that he could extend the play and let receivers work open. I am just crediting McNabb
champion64 - February 8, 2012
I’d rather attribute McNabb’s success to Reid, although Pat deserves a small amount of credit.
Roger Dorn - February 8, 2012
Look at the wonders he did with mcnabb.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
…and that’s not to say he didn’t read the defense, but Baylors coaching staff just prefers to run their offense this way. Do you remember how well Cam Newton did when he met with Gruden? He didn’t know what the hell was going on!
athensdawg - February 8, 2012
Cam knew what was going on, he was just trying (and fumbling) to explain a philosophical difference in the offense to Gruden.
Gruden was asking him something that really was outside of the system Cam ran, and Cam was trying to explain how that system handles things.
I do not think Baylor’s offense is as “systemy” as Auburn’s. Malzahn is infamous for his simplified approach to offense.
rufio - February 9, 2012
…yeah and I am pretty sure they did similar things with Newton and other QBs in college have had the same experiences. Few pro prospects ever had to read a D anywhere close to how they will have to in the pros.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
The reason they didn’t mention it is because Newton did the same thing. In fact, I think I remember reading Newton ran less than 20 different plays. Since this article was a comparison to Newton, it didn’t really make sense to bring it up.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
We are not comparing RG3 and Cam Newton as equals are we?
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Comparing equals? That doesn’t make sense. If they are equal, what is there to compare?
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
Meant are we comparing their play in college and then deciding they are equal coming out of college?
champion64 - February 8, 2012
I think RG3 is a real prospect but we are talking a Pro Bowl caliber Quarterback here. Auburn’s team with Cam Newton went from #22 to #1 against much deeper tougher defenses. I would think if RG3 comes anywhere close to Newton he would be a major sucess. Alot to ask from RG3
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Baylor went from a national joke to a top 10 team. And again, save that “tougher defense” garbage.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
You are talking a National Championship Team comapred to Baylor?? Auburn went 13-0
champion64 - February 8, 2012
They also went undefeated in ’04 and ’93.
Before RG3 Baylor went to a bowl 11 times since the 1960’s. He took them to two bowls and a top ten ranking. I give that more credence than leading a power to a National Championship.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
Flynn won a Natl Championship at LSU…just throwin’ that out there
Red-Right-88 - February 8, 2012
So did Craig Krenzel at OSU.
rufio - February 9, 2012
How can you make that comment. Cam Newton as a NEW Starter took a team ranked 22nd and led them to a National Title and you say RG3 accomplishment of making Baylor a top 10 team is more of an accomplishment? Not true
champion64 - February 8, 2012
It’s harder to elevate lesser players.
I’m not talking about a guy who took his team okay levels like Jay Cutler at Vandy. Since ’97 here is the year by year amount of wins at Baylor: 2, 2, 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 4, 3, 4, 4, 7, 10.
Guess when RG3 entered the picture?
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
Come on you are making an argument that RG3 is compared to Cam Newton? Cam Newton who is 6’6 250 pound Led his team to a National title with a much harder schedule and went 13-0 to a guy who went 10-3 is a weaker division? and never was considered to be in a title game. RG3 lost to Kansas State and Texas A&M.
Newton faced 5 teams ranked in the top 12 including number 2 in the finals,
RG3 faced 2 teams ranked in the top 12 highest ranked #4 and was blown out.
champion64 - February 8, 2012
A) I never compared the two size-wise.
B) All I did was cite the article. Joyner is making the case, and yes I think he has a fantastic point.
C) You keep harping on the National Championship. You need to see the bigger picture. Who elevated their program more? Who made a bad situation good?
Don’t cite the defensive numbers. The SEC’s defensive ranks are elevated because almost no one in the conference has a good offense.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
because they always crush offensive juggernauts in the national championship game.
bbstirrd - February 8, 2012
and how much Defense was was being played in the Big 12?
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Well considering 3 of the best offenses in college football played there, I’m not sure.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
I know you love RG3 and to tell you the truth if we draft him, it will be exciting, really exciting. I hope he lives up to all the possibilities. We have not had an exciting quarterback in a long time
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Baylor’s basketball team has gotten alot better too, RGIII playing hoops too?
Red-Right-88 - February 8, 2012
Not RGIII but, PJIII, as in Perry Jones the third.
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
There is a joke in here but I can’t come up with it.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
I did…
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Well what did you think?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Like I said once before, I have no idea what this means. :)
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
Wait, if you actually did, it’s no longer a joke right? I’m terrible at riddles.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
Subtle.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I know right.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 9, 2012
It would have been if I replied to the right person at the beginning.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
exactly, where they played in college does not equal success in the NFL… example Big Ben with you know who…
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
In the A&M game their defense forgot to show up. Also Auburn’s supporting players are all like 4-5 star recruits. Baylor’s probably aren’t. RG3’s left tackle is a joke, he will be used to taking the heat. Don’t know if you watched the Alamo Bowl but Wash’s defense was all over him winthin seconds. Funny though, haven’t heard him making excuses about it.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
Auburn wasn’t a horrible team when Cam took over.
Brownie's Year - February 8, 2012
Just look at who Newton faced and who RG3 faced. RG3 is a great college quarterback and I hope if we select him, he is great for us
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Look at who Newton was playing with and look at who RG3 was playing with.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
They were 8-5 the year before. Not horrible, but not NC caliber.
Villeslgr - February 8, 2012
the difference between #22 and #1 is much smaller than laughingstock and top 25.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Baylor was ranked number 24 before the 2nd game so it was not like they were 108 ranked
champion64 - February 8, 2012
They were ranked that high to start with because of what RG3 led them to the year before.
Dawg Nuts - February 8, 2012
exactly.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Baylor ranked 58th in Sporting News’ preseason polls. Even after a 7-5 regular season in 2010 (which moved them up a few spots).
He took that team on his shoulders and led them from literally middle of the road to top 25.
And you can jump from the 50s to the top 25 if you upset a top 15 team who has been an established part of the top 25 like TCU has been recently.
Plus, that was only one on poll. They were outside the top 25 on the other.
I was going back threw Sporting News’ old preseason rankings of all 120 teams, and generally only 1 or two schools from BCS conferences don’t rank in the top 100.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Yeah because those teams ranked 26-58 are tough! Gee I guess I still dont see your point.
champion64 - February 8, 2012
The point is that Auburn was consistently a top 25 team and Baylor was consistently ranked as a significantly below average BCS team in the 60s and 70s range.
The last time Baylor was ranked top-25 was 4 years before RG3 was born. That should tell you something about the state of the program. Auburn has finished in the top 25 5 times in the last decade and 6 times since 2000
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Baylor’s last winning season was ’95. The season before was the last time they had been to a bowl game. Auburn has been undefeated twice in just a slightly bigger timespan than Baylor made 2 bowl games (one in the 2010-2011 Bowl season). RG3 led Baylor to two winning seasons and two bowls.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
that reminds me of Peyton with the Colts…hmmmm
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
Baylor went from a national joke to a top 10 team. And again, save that "tougher defense" garbage.
that reminds me of Peyton with the Colts…hmmmm
sorry my reply did not go where it was intended…thhpppttt
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
exactly. He didn’t face the tougher D, but the turnaround was much more huge.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
The point is that Cam Newton is the real deal, RG3 is yet to be determined. Newton played against a much more credible schedule than did RG3. NOT SAYING RG3 wont be great
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Cam is not human, isn’t he a transformer in disguise? :) Raise your hand if you thought he would be throwing for over 4000 (726 rushing)…. see his season stat link here below
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13994/cam-newton
Will RG3 be anything like Mr Newton is what this all boils down to? hmmm you know you want one….
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
Cam Newton is the real deal. the comparisons to RG3 are incomplete and a bit foolish at this time
champion64 - February 8, 2012
I am not comparing RG3 to Cam, I am referring to the topic of this post…I’m not sure if he will compare to Mr. Newton with the year he had…(if Carolina had a defense, they might have made the playoffs)…my point is a mobile/strong arm quarterback makes me drool….especially in our division…do we burn 2 first round picks to gamble on him? Myself, I want to know more before I would get firmly on the RG3 bandwagon..so far I am not there. Long time till April…
Poppawolf - February 8, 2012
Well sure, but that’s because Griffin hasn’t taken an NFL snap. I think the more interesting discussion is whether Griffin is as good of a draft prospect and Newton was at this time last year.
notthatnoise - February 8, 2012
That is still a pointless discussion because its Cam Newton was the best PROSPECT because he was drafted first and nobody is sure of how good of a prospect Griffin is.
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
Where you around for last season’s draft? Numerous people thought Cam Newton wasn’t even the best prospect on his team, let alone the draft.
And that is why we are discussing it.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
He was the best QB prospect in his draft. That doesn’t mean he would have gone first overall in this draft. I think if Newton had come out a year later we would all be arguing over whether we wanted Newton or Griffin, because neither is as big a prospect as Luck.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I think Newton, Luck, Griffin, and Barkley are all #1 overall picks if they come out in consecutive years. And Newton would have been the one I liked the least.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
I agree whole-heartedly. I thought Newton would be a huge bust.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I’m very interested to see how he does next season.
He never really had to adapt in college (the one season in Division 1), so this will be the first time teams get a book on him and make him adjust.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
I think Griffin is a safer draft prospect than Newton was, but it’s hard to say if he was better.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
“safer” has to be a part of that discussion.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I agree. There was definitely immense risk involved in Cam, but also immense reward. As a prospect, I personally like RG3’s mix of talent, upside, but also fairly high floor (at least I think it is) compared to Cam.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
that’s an appropriate question and I would say since he has better accuracy and a quicker release, plus is smarter (objectively) he is at least as good, if not better.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
I like RG3 better because I feel much more confident he won’t bust. When I saw Newton, I saw a lot of Akili Smith…mostly in the great skill set and the measly 1 year as a starter.
I still think even after the rookie season, Newton has a higher bust potential (the bottom could inevitably drop out once they adjust to him), but I feel better about Newton than a year ago and I still think RG3 is safer…but not as high of a ceiling.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
I think this is a good point. One of the draft pundits I pay more attention to is Nolan Nawrocki (sp?) at PFW. Physical attributes aside, he was highly critical of Newton’s attitude and could sum it up as a “where’s the camera” approach to being an NFL star, a sort of fake it attitude. Expectations were low in Carolina this year so it was easy for him to say all the right things. As the expectations rise, if the fit hits the shan his inner diva might come calling. I don’t think any of those type of concerns exist with RGIII.
Mal Reynolds - February 9, 2012
From everything I’ve gathered, RG3 is a good guy and will be a great teammate (not that newton can’t be). RG3 did say he thinks he deserves to be #1, but he also backed it up with rational statements about the things he can do. He is confident, not too cocky
bross09 - February 9, 2012
From what I have heard, Newton was an ideal teammate, worked extra hard at all aspects of his game. 60% comp rate, rocket for an arm. He arguably did with an NFL team what RGIII did with Baylor. I think he has a drive to be the best ever, (pride?), the team he joined sucked worse than any team in the league…now surround him with some talent and I have no idea where you get the Bust talk.
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Newton had Steve Smith and a decent running game. The part of Carolina that sucked was their defense. Don’t get me wrong, I was extremely impressed with Newton, he had an amazing season for a rookie. He still threw a lot of picks, and 60% isn’t actually all that great. Defenses have a lot of tape on the guy now, next year is going to be tougher for him, how he adjusts will be telling. Remember, it’s the mental parts of the game people thought he would struggle with.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
So the 4000+ yards as a rookie had nothing to with his mental skills? 4000 yards as a rookie. I cant even get my mind around that. Then you throw the 706 yards rushing and 14 Td’s as a bonus… if RG3 has a rookie season half that good it will still be considered a success.
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
He was playing a lot on pure ability last year. I read an article last year even before he started on this streak about how Cam might have less of an adjustment at the beginning than other players because he really wasn’t going to play by thinking but just by going off of his skills.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Just think when he has a full off season. I think in a few years he will be the face of the NFL…and I think with his ego, he just might make it…and ya know he was a model citizen this year so more power to him. I have no problem with a Browns – Panthers SB in a couple years!
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
you also have to consider teams have a full offseason to gameplan against him. Unless he works extremely hard at watching film and learning how to read a D, he could very easily regress.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I didn’t say Newton wasn’t or couldn’t be, I just didn’t hear things about Newton’s character like I did with RG3s.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
I also think Cam will have to respond as defenses figure him out a little, make him make better decisions (which is clearly his weakness right now), and beat him up physically over the next few years.
rufio - February 9, 2012
Atleast they have not already figured him out unlike our sorry lot
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Go root for Carolina.
Brownie's Year - February 9, 2012
Savage made the original “go root for Buffalo” statement; Savage has been referred to as Opie; Opie was a character in The Andy Griffith Show; The Andy Griffith Show was set in North Carolina. Carolina.
You sir, are a genius.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
haha, u goof
Brownie's Year - February 9, 2012
I meant to rec this but I think I accidentally hit the flag button instead…
Mal Reynolds - February 10, 2012
Let’s wait more than one season before we crown Cam.
Like I said above, I will be very interested to see how Newton faces without having the element of the unknown in his favor.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
This comment has been made a few times about next year defenses will figure him out, or he wont be a surprise next year. If as some said on here that they ran a simple offense, and given the fact he was making headlines early in the year, and he was playing against NFL defensive coaches, dont you think they planned for him, his plays, etc? Hmmm we are playing Carolina this week…who do we have to stop?
Really we are giving Cam a lot less credit for what he did, the most amazing rookie season ever…except for Otto’s rookie year.
Red-Right-88 - February 10, 2012
They are comparing collegiate stats. It’s a comparable exercise.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
we know Newton is the real deal because he showed it in the pros.
Even with his “more credible schedule”, people still had doubts because his offense was extremely simple and they ran few plays.
As the article points out, Baylor’s offense was more “pro-style” than Newton’s. Any advantage Newton has because of the level of competition is negated because of the offense.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
Cam Newton at 6’6 250lbs who can run and throw (he threw for OVER 4,000 yards this year in the pro’s) has it all over a 6’2 215 lb quarterback from Baylor AT THIS POINT. To think RG3 will do that this year, or even Luck is ridiculous.
champion64 - February 8, 2012
Slow down buddy. You’re yelling.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
With your line of thinking, it would be impossible to compare anyone in the draft to anyone in the NFL.
That’s not gonna happen.
Bernie19Kosar - February 8, 2012
like I said, we know because he showed it in the pros. Who would have predicted that a QB who started 1 year of college and threw for 2800 yards would throw for over 4,000 as a rookie? If you predicted this before the season, people would have seriously thought you were delusional.
RG3 started all together about 3 years in college and threw for 4,000 yards just this past season.
I think that looking at both guys as prospects and ignoring what Newton is done (because he has already partially proven himself and that’s irrelevant to him as a draft prospect), it seems much safer to predict that RG3 passes for 4,000 than Cam based on what we had to go on.
bross09 - February 8, 2012
I stated this 127 times as KrazyKat645391 before I got banned and wiped away.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
Totally some sort of schizophrenic lie here.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
TCU? Rice? Stephen Austin? cmon man.
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Arkansas St.? LA-Monroe? Chattanooga? cmon man.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
Was that who Auburn played Cam’s last season? If so…good one!
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Bingo.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
TCU is top 25 consistently these days. You can bash ‘em all youwant but that’s a quality opponent.
You are also missing the point. C64 points to the 4,000 and uses it as an evaluation of Cam as a prospect and saying RG3 most likely won’t do that. And you know what, he is probably right.
But Newton didn’t even throw 3,000 yards in his senior year so predicting 4,000 would make you a lunatic or you had super duper foresight.
RG3 just threw for 4,000 yards so ignore what Newton did, I don’t think you could logically say Newton would have been more likely coming out to pass for 4,000 yards than RG3.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
You know secretly I hope RG3 is all you say he is and he is a Brown, right?
champion64 - February 9, 2012
It’s no longer a secret, you outed yourself.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
I think he will be…
And here, I am not even saying RG3 is going to be amazing. Please understand what I am saying. Cam took the NFL by storm but no one would have expected it. RG3 had a heisman season that just blows Newton’s away.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
OK that I agree with, He had a great statistical season
champion64 - February 9, 2012
I dunno if you are saying Cam as a rookie or RG3 as a heisman, but either way, yeah
bross09 - February 9, 2012
TCU’s defense is very good and has been over the past few years. Patterson is credited for slowing the spread down, and many teams at all levels are copying what they do schematically.
rufio - February 9, 2012
I bet that is what everyone thought about Cam last year. What is with the capital letters?
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
More Pro Style? Wasnt he in the shotgun every down? or did i miss something
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Pro-style isn’t just about how they take a snap. Griffin still didn’t play in a real pro offense, but Newton literally ran about 15 different plays.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
“I run 6 plays, split veer, it’s like novacaine just give it time, it always works”
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
exactly
bross09 - February 9, 2012
First of all, what NTN said. Second of all, it said it in the freakin’ article up top too. Instead of trying to call me out, how about you read it next time, because I am just pointing out what the article this thread is about, talks about.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
BR9, I dont consider every snap from the shotgun a pro style offense, and you re-quoted it in the thread so of course my comment is to you. If you consider that calling you out then I dont know what to say, maybe lay off the caffeine.
And it definitely was not a WCO style which has the QB under center most of the time.
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
You know, Tom Brady runs an offense that is “pro style” and I dunno if you watched the SB, but he takes a lot of snaps out of the shotgun.
He didn’t run a pure “pro-style” but his offense had much more similarities to a pro style offense than Cam’s. That’s the point that you are missing right now. He makes more pro reads than Cam ever had to.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
No one in college runs a “real pro offense” because they would never have the practice time to go over all the plays even once. Even offenses that operate out of the I are simpler than pro offenses out of flat-out necessity.
rufio - February 10, 2012
exactly. The only advantage the guys running in an eye really have is the footwork from under center. Yeah, they make more pro reads, but QBs in some spread offenses in college make just as many.
bross09 - February 10, 2012
In addition to what NtN is saying, there are various levels of responsibility a QB will be given based on what his team does, there will be various ways of calling plays and what QBs will have to do in that respect, there will be different things that the QB will have to pay attention to on the field to make his offense go. Tempo will be used differently by some teams.
Passing the ball with good accuracy will be used differently by different teams (i.e. teams “spread” for different reasons). A QB’s legs will account for different portions of the offense, etc. etc.
Tom Brady plays a lot from the shotgun.
rufio - February 9, 2012
Joyner was comparing the two statistically and came to the conclusion that RGIII could be evern better than Newton because he was more efficient as a passer in college.
rufio - February 9, 2012
Yeah but so was Colt McCoy
champion64 - February 9, 2012
are you really going to use that argument? Let’s just say no efficient passer in college will be as good as Cam because of Colt.
You yourself have harped on Colt’s size and lack of arm strength. RG3 has him beat in those categories. Not at all a valid comparison.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Nah just busting balls
champion64 - February 9, 2012
wasn’t sure if serious back there…
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Which is why football is not science, though Joyner would like to believe that it is.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Those numbers are remarkable but remember that RG3 had a guy who could get behind the defense and we don’t yet. Although there is a possibility of actually getting Kendall Wright.
macdowellm03 - February 8, 2012
Yes please. There will be a burner for us somewhere. Also Carlton Mitchell, my sole twitter follower, will have a break out year.
HenryDawg - February 8, 2012
is he in jail? :0
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
We all need to call our draft operator and tell them “I want my RG3”
Adrock2099 - February 8, 2012
icwhatudidthere
Brownie's Year - February 8, 2012
There are many possibilities for this draft to be successful and they dont all include RGIII
Red-Right-88 - February 8, 2012
Straw man. No one is saying “RG3 or this draft will be terrible.” Many believe that walking away with RG3 is the best possible outcome in this draft, and concede several positive outcomes below it.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
I’m glad someone did.
Adrock2099 - February 8, 2012
And play the guitar.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 8, 2012
So this is what happens when I go to class?
bross09 - February 8, 2012
I wasn’t on the “draft RGIII bandwagon” until today. This article completely turned me around and I would really get excited to see what he can do in our WCO
tr1betime - February 8, 2012
I could write and article that could get you excited to draft Cousins…but I wont. :)
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
….or Coples or Tannenbaum or the QB from Akron U….
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Tannenbaum excites me more than McCoy, but like many others have stated I think he’s getting hyped up because there are no other QBs in this draft.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
Gabbert and Ponder were hyped up too, now those two teams have a decision to make.
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Gabbert yes, ponder not-so-much. Ponder definitely flashed signs that he could be “the guy” for Minny…..I could definitely see Jax looking elsewhere.
Gradysmanldy - February 9, 2012
what could you right to get me excited about Cousins that compares with Joiner? I don’t think you have enough tape on Cousins to write this in depth, and from what I’ve watched, you would have to omit things to get someone excited about cousins.
This is a well-written, in depth article by someone who has made his living doing this.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
oh my, the point was you can make anyone sound good, how could you miss that sarcasm etc. but just for fun I would start with this 64% comp rate. ;)
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
I would counter with a ypa that is above average at best and never having better than a 2.5/1 TD/INT ratio in college.
I was talking tape analysis too, not something either of us could pull of ESPN.com
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Tape analysis? Lol and in was kidding about cousins…
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
well, it wasn’t very funny and it was easy to take serious with the point being that if someone is good at explaining things, they can get people excited over most players.
my point (which you continued to respond to and now are shocked that it was talking about actual analysis) was that you could write something on Cousins, but you are not going to have the in-depth observations you get when a pro like KC Joiner takes the tape and breaks it down.
bross09 - February 10, 2012
maybe your comedy meter is broken…
Red-Right-88 - February 10, 2012
or it could be you shouldn’t quit your day job for a career in stand-up.
bross09 - February 10, 2012
I’m starting to get that feeling in the pit of my stomach that says “If you really want something as a Cleveland fan, you’re probably not going to get it”.
I’d love to see us get RG3 and then to be able to get Kendall Wright as well would be so sweet. But see above.
Kaner - February 8, 2012
I’m sure we’ll end up doing something that looks like it came out of left field. The only time we ever drafted the player I wanted or thought we would was one Joe “Almighty” Thomas. And we didn’t so much draft Him, it was more that He allowed us to become one with the Thomas.
Adrock2099 - February 9, 2012
I think most of us here were on board with Joe Haden by the time the draft rolled around. We would have preferred Eric Berry still I think, but we were pretty prepared to take Haden.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
I was furious they didn’t take Berry. Haden absolutely proved me wrong, and taught me a valuable lesson about the “eye” test vs. combine measurables.
Gradysmanldy - February 9, 2012
I think Berry was drafted ahead of our pick, it isn’t like we passed on him.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
Correct, Chiefs took him before we were on the clock.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
that’s where I was. Content with Haden, but now extremely pleased.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
I was pining for Berry. And last year for Peterson. But I’m thrilled with what we got.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
This is where I was/am as well. I also was super pissed the Seahawks took Aaron Curry ahead of us and we traded down… at the time. I am less angry about that now.
Adrock2099 - February 9, 2012
Hated Haden. Liked Peterson. Hated Julio Jones.
Needless to say, I now have a full on man crush on Joe Haden.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
Also, I hated Aaron Curry. With a passion.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
agreed
bross09 - February 9, 2012
That describes me perfectly. I knew Haden was good, I just love me a ridiculously good safety.
rufio - February 9, 2012
Yeah, I wasn’t angry when we got Haden. A bit disappointed, sure, but not screaming at my TV by any means.
Adrock2099 - February 9, 2012
Just curious. Have there been many (any?) instances of QB and WR from the same school drafted by the same NFL team in the same year? Seems like it would be great for instant chemistry (just add play book, makes it’s own yardage) but can’t think of any instances where it happened.
JustBob - February 9, 2012
Could RG3 be better than Newton? Cam was flashy and put up huge numbers, but what’s the point when you go 6-10. I would much rather have Matt Ryan numbers. He has taken a 4-12 team to four straight winning seasons.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
Cam > Ryan. I imagine Cam wont be choking in the playoffs.
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Cam is 0-2 against Ryan. He’s gonna have to stop choking against Ryan to even make the playoffs.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
haha good one!
Red-Right-88 - February 9, 2012
Wins are a team stat.
notthatnoise - February 9, 2012
All stats are dependent on the play of others. So we want to draft RG3 for his flashy plays and big stats, but he won’t factor the win/loss record? There’s a reason qb is the most important position.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
The difference is that in Cleveland, we have an established D that isn’t going to be one of the worst (if not the worst) D in the league in several categories.
QB is the most important position in the NFL, but it’s not easy to win when your D is spotting the other team 27 each game. Even Brady would struggle to win at times with that D.
If RG3 can be anything close to Cam, this team will be .500 or better and you can bank on it. QB is maybe the biggest void on the team right now, whereas on the Panthers there are tons of huge voids.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
We are not going to win if RGIII throws 17int’s in ten games like Newton. The Panthers defense can’t help it when the qb turns the ball over and gives up great field position. New England and Green Bay had awful defenses, but their qb’s didn’t continually turn the ball over. When Cam stopped turning the ball over, he was 6 and 0.
There is no way we will be .500 if RGIII continually turns the ball over.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
What is the point of this post? If RG3 is hypothetically terrible, it likely won’t be good for the Browns? You don’t say.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
Did i say RGIII was terrible? I said we should worry about whether he can win, rather than if he can throw for 4k his rookie season.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
I could care less if he throws lots of INTs his first year. Manning did too. If anything Colt was maddening because he didn’t throw a lot of INTs , first downs or TDs because he rarely got rid of the ball.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
So you would rather have colt throw an int because nobody is open, rather than scramble for extra yards.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
I’ld rather have him give his receivers a chance to make the play instead of worrying about throwing INTs.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
I would like Colt McCoy throw a guy open. How many times do we see a top flight QB make a throw to a guy that is blanketed?
With the rules in today’s NFL, the offensive player has every advantage when the ball is in the air. PI, illegal contact, etc., etc. A Quarterback with a decent skill set should rip apart a defender that doesn’t have their head turned around. Unfortunately, I rarely saw that from Colt.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
nicely done
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
This is where I am.
If RG3 throws 25 INT’s, I would hope that he shows progression through the season. Did he learn from those INT’s? Is he throwing the ball downfield? Is he throwing INT’s in really bad areas, or is he taking unnecessary risks?
Colt doesn’t throw as many INT’s as other QB’s, but he continues to make the same mistakes. That to me is more frustrating that a guy learning as he goes.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
RG3’s success next year should not be defined by stats, nor should it be defined by wins.
rufio - February 9, 2012
It should be defined by how well he battles out there. As long as he battled, and he battles out there.
Adrock2099 - February 9, 2012
In all seriousness, yes. It should be defined by how well he does on the field.
rufio - February 10, 2012
What if he is battling to be able to battle out there?
Kimble_79 - February 10, 2012
Aha. We’re in luck then, because unfortunately very few things have been defined by wins with our Browns lately.
JustBob - February 9, 2012
I will watch as many ’skins game as I can. I want to follow his progress.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
These are actually very good points. New England’s defense works consistently alongside their offense. Its “complementary” football that we were always hearing Mangini talk about. GB’s defense worked like that in the year they won it all, too.
My only concern going forward with Cam would be that his decision-making is the worst part of his game right now and also the part of his game that everyone questioned during the draft process. We saw him succeed on his physical tools, which were never the question.
Will he take football seriously enough to live in the film room? Will he advance to the point where he is mentally in command of the game like a Manning or Brady or Brees? These are the types of questions that will ultimately define his career.
rufio - February 9, 2012
We are going to win more games if RG3 is similarly as good, because it’s a significant step up from what we have with Colt.
yet the Cardinals, Bears, and Chiefs Ds with QBs who had more picks than Newton…In fact, 2 of those 3 teams had Ds in the top half in the league. Carolina’s D was still 25th in yards per rush and dead last in opponent yard per pass. These are things that you can’t even try to argue Newton affected.
Like you said, they had better QB play. The Ds were also better overall anyways.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
We REALLY need to stop comparing RGIII to Cam. Besides being black, they have very little in common. Look at the numbers they played in; RGIII is a pocket passer who scrambles when the play breaks down, Cam was a hybrid running/passing guy a la Micheal Vick.
RGIII’s numbers compare more favorably to Colts in college than Cams. Please….just stop.
Gradysmanldy - February 9, 2012
I don’t think the comparison is a black thing. Newton was a rookie last year and RGIII will be this year. Of course an upcoming rookie is going to be compared to last years rookie, stat, phenom. RGIII is more similar to Newton than Luck is.
Newton’s rookie stats were insane. To say RGIII will break them is ludicrous. The stat we should be looking at is the win/loss record. If RGIII would lead us to a 6-10 record, and 0-4 against the division powerhouses, is it worth it? Is that a vast improvement over colt? If we beat the bengals twice, like we should have, then we have same overall and division record as the panthers.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
If the Browns go 6-10 next year it shows drafting RG3 was a mistake. Got it.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
I am telling you my prediction now is the Browns will win more than 6 games
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Whether that’s true or not, I just wanted to point out that it’s incredibly silly and shortsighted to think that way.
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
Shortsighted isn’t strong enough. Completely wrong fits better.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
It depends how RG3 looks in all of the games. Wins and losses his rookie year aren’t what will determine whether or not he was worth it, the quality of his play and how fast he develops will determine that. If he improves from game 1 to game 16 similarly to how Colt developed from his first to last start, then I’ll be concerned.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
Those two records would be the absolute least of my worries when it comes to judging a rookie QB.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
Athletically I think RG3 is more like Vick than Cam. Cam is more like a faster, bigger Tebow. He can get downhill and move the pile.
rufio - February 9, 2012
And even that comparison is misleading.
Vick never had the passing skills that RG3 has shown in college. In College, Vick completed 56% of his passes and had 20-11 TD-INT ratio. His career 9.8 YPA was nice (his freshman season was a 12.1!), but RG3 isn’t far behind right behind him at 8.7.
The comparison I like more and more everyday is Dorn’s: a young, more complete Randall Cunningham. I think he very well could be the most dangerous player in the NFL in a few seasons. (Granted that is assuming he progresses, stays healthy, etc.)
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
What would you be willing to part with draft pick wise for RG3? Just curious…
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Both firsts and the second rounder if it’s needed, but I don’t think will be. I wouldn’t touch any picks from next seasons draft.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
Thanks, I hope 2 firsts are enough….I’m not convinced yet he is worth more than that, though I can be persuaded with a bottle of sake and some sushi thrown in…..
Poppawolf - February 10, 2012
I’d rather give picks next year. Our two firsts and next year’s second, for example, instead of this year’s second in your example. I like the depth of this draft, and the future is always a crapshoot.
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
My only problem with that is if we dip into next seasons picks, that would be three drafts that are impacted (‘10,’11, and ’12).
While I understand we would still be keeping value from this season, I don’t like robbing tomorrow to pay today. Feels like we would be trying to catch up for too long.
Bernie19Kosar - February 10, 2012
There’s a very good chance a two next year is significantly lower than #37.
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
As long as its not a #1 next year it would be OK. You have to assume if we can fill this QB spot with Griffin and he’s not a disaster, we can attract better FAs to fill the gap.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
Unfortunately I am too young to remember much of Randall. Maybe one season when he had Moss and Chris Carter? Just from Youtube highlights their bodies do look similar.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Also, they are both tough and will take a big hit while running/scrambling for a key play.
rufio - February 10, 2012
Cam also had the worst D in the league on his team and he can’t play on D too.
I think Ryan is really good, but he also has a better team around him. Cam led that offense into relevancy.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
The question I have is whether, with all this hype, RGIII could end up being taken #1 instead of Andrew Luck. I mean Andrew Luck has basically been considered the #1 pick this year ever since last year’s draft, and I wonder if that might be part of the reason Luck is still considered ahead of G3. In my view, the major part of Luck’s game that gives him an edge over Griffin is his ability to read defenses (the mental aspect of the game). Griffin’s edge is that he is a speed demon that can punish you with both his arm and his legs. In my view, the mental aspect of the game is something that can be taught- But Andrew Luck can’t just “work on it” and become a track star. The more hype RGIII gets, the more I could see Irsay wanting him over Luck.
shep615 - February 9, 2012
Again, Griffin is not a “speed demon that can beat you with his legs” he’s a pocket passer.
Gradysmanldy - February 9, 2012
He’s both. The man is literally a track champion.
rufio - February 9, 2012
Are you saying Griffin is slow? That’s just silly. He’s not by any means a run-first kind of guy, but he definitely has world-class speed that he can beat you with. So yes, he is a speed demon that can beat you with his legs. He’s also got a top shelf arm that he can beat you with.
shep615 - February 10, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuXuFQqjro0
/giggles with glee
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
But he’s in the shotgun!!!!
Looks like he doesn’t get a lot of time in the pocket either.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
Griffin has to many unknowns to be picked over Luck. Here are some factors I believe that will keep him from being picked over Luck: Height, weight, Ability to read defenses, did not audible in college, Luck played more in a traditional drop back offense, instead of Griffin who played in a Shot Gun spread offense. NOT SAYING RG3 ISN’T VERY GOOD, because he is.
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Seemed like Manning was in the gun all the time.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
Luck came from a Pro-Style but that isn’t extremely common. RG3 could end up going #1 though just because some may see he has more upside. It’s definitely going to be Luck though
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Also he has said he doesn’t mind sitting behind Manning for a couple of years and Luck has said he didn’t want to (rumor).
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
I don’t think anyone can unseat Luck as the first pick.
rufio - February 9, 2012
But that maybe good for us. RG3 could be the better of the two , no one knows
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Newton has one win when he has passed for over 210 yards. He averaged 253 per game. He has just one win when passing the ball over 30 times. 16 of his 17 int’s came when he passed the ball over thirty times in a game. 8 of his 21 td’s came when he passed the ball less than 30 times. He had just 6 games where he threw the ball less than 30 times, and his record was 5 and 1.
Garbage time stats? Or is less really more when it comes to Newton
Newton threw way too many interceptions and was forced to throw the rest of the game. Most of his stats are garbage. In his six win’s, he threw zero interceptions. Seventeen interceptions in ten games is not good. Don’t get blinded because he threw for 4k. Colt had a Newton day against the titans, and that wasn’t pretty.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
He accounted for almost 5,000 total yards and you are saying he is a garbage time player? The WHOLE PANTHERS TEAM threw for only 2,600 yards passing and 1,800 rushing last year (2010) . HE ALONE this year (2011) outgained the whole 2010 Carolina Panthers team and he is a a garbage time player?? Come on
champion64 - February 9, 2012
The games he won, he averaged 191 passing yards. He also averaged 52 rushing yards in those games. That is a fact. Bad defense and way too many interceptions forced him to throw the ball too much. When he stopped throwing int’s, he didn’t have to pass as much and won games. He was no Rodgers or Brees. He didn’t win games by throwing for 300 yards on 40 attempts.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
Wouldn’t you be extremely excied if you were a Panther fan?
champion64 - February 9, 2012
I would be happy, but not based on the fact that he threw for 4k this past year.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
not just anyone can throw for 4,000
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Right. Also on that list is Bill Kenney, Lynn Dickey, Elvis Grbac, Don Majkowski, and Jeff George. So…yeah.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
As rookies?
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Let’s see if he continues it, that’s my point. All of those guys also only did it for one season.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
And that isn’t to say I don’t like what I saw from Newton, I personally think he’ll be fine.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
I really hope we answer our QB situation this year and next year teams are talking about our QB in a positive light. We can hope.. Think we will trade up to get RG3 or will he fall to us a 4 , or will we even draft him at all?
champion64 - February 9, 2012
right now, if the rumors be true, we would have to give at least two #1’s plus a #2 to get him…that sounds a bit insane to me…I could go with our two #1’s and maybe next years 5th round pick.
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Source?
nickjs21 - February 9, 2012
That crazy Redskin fan doesn’t count as a source either.
Bernie19Kosar - February 9, 2012
Miami Herald
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Link?
And remember, there’s a difference between rumor and speculation.
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
I believe H&H will do whatever it takes to get us a franchise QB in this draft.
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
Just like you could argue above that once he stopped throwing picks the team won, you can also argue that once the D forced turnovers they won.
In those 6 games, the D forced 15 turnovers. IN the other 10 games, they forced 9.
Teams rushed for 4.6 ypa against them during the season, but under 4.1 in wins. Their pass D improved from 7.6 to 7.4. Also, 15 out of their 31 sacks came in their wins.
If the Panther’s averaged these for a whole season, they would be 11th in rushing ypc, 29th in ypa, 3rd in forced turnovers, and 14th in sacks. The highest they ranked in any of these over the whole season was 25th in rushing ypa.
Cam average 191 passing yards because he didn’t HAVE to pass.
These were some of the leads Cam held in those wins 31-12, 24-13 in the 4th, 21-6, and 41-10. With those kinds of leads, late in the game, it makes sense to run out the clock, which they did in most of their wins.
Clearly the variable that had the most change was defensive play. They went from an awful D, to one that could win games.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
if Carolina had any kind of defense, their record would have been a lot better, maybe the playoffs as a wildcard…Newton made things happen…just like Tebow….strike the last part…just kidding…really
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
They lost 6 games by a td or less. I haven’t watched any of those games but i would imagine Cam had a chance to win each of those games. I don’t think i would but the blame solely on the defense. He kept them competitive, that’s for sure, but also took them out of games with int’s.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
How do you feel about McCoy? RG3? Luck? Wallace?
champion64 - February 9, 2012
Let’s start with Wallace and McCoy since they are on the team. Wallace is in no way the answer at qb. He is a quality backup who is getting old. Colt is the guy who is going to get chances to succeed, but just doesn’t get there. A good stop gap. Like an Orton, Henne, or even Matt Moore. I have no problem with Colt starting while we build the team.
My favorite thing about Luck is how he lost his coach, but didn’t lose a step. His coach went on to be the nfl coach of the year. RGIII is getting a lot of hype. Some deserved, some not. This front office won’t take a qb based on hype. If we take a qb in the top 5, then i have no reason to believe this guy isn’t the real deal.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
He’s getting hyped for good reason, he’s got talent and people are bidding to get it. If Luck wasn’t the sure fire pick at #1 he would be getting hyped too.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
then don’t talk about it like you did…at least look up the box scores for games where you didn’t watch.
nope. unless you consider being down by 14 to the packers later in the 4th having a chance to win.
The D also blew a lead in the 4th vs. the Bears and gave up 10 points and he was forced with little time to score 10 points.
The D also blew it against the Vikings and while he had a chance to lose, they had a long drive for a game winning FG.
Cam had a “chance” against the Falcons, but the D couldn’t get off the field and gave up 3 straight TDs to Ryan.
I would say maybe in 2 of those games, he had a legitimate chance…
bross09 - February 9, 2012
Newton had chances to beat the Packers. He started throwing int’s, which ultimately gave up a panther lead. If their defense is that bad, he can’t start forcing passes and throwing int’s. They certainly did not blow a lead to the bears in the 4th. It was 20 to 24 at half and no score in the 3rd.
browns8 - February 9, 2012
Actually, when he really started “throwing INTs” in the 3rd quarter, they were already down 14-13…So he didn’t blow any lead. You also may not realize this, but the Packers were 2nd best in the league at forcing turnovers.
then how were they suddenly down by 11 with 1:23 left in the game? I call that blowing it, and this one is really hard to blame on Newton.
I love how you blame him for the losses when the D is so awful when it’s bad that he can play like a Pro Bowler at times and still lose.
bross09 - February 10, 2012
If you just look at how the D played in the losses, they would be dead last in points, yards, yards per pass attempt, last in opponent QB rating, last in sacks, 31st in opponent QB comp %, and 28th in yards per rush.
bross09 - February 9, 2012
garbage time? They competive in most of the games they played…granted he was in his first year and interceptions are bound to come as part of the learning process…their defense was ranked around 25th …..if he was on the Browns, I would be very happy indeed…
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Brian Baldinger on NFLN Total Access with a genie cap predicting RG3 throws Cleveland from worst to first in the AFCN.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
In other news, I am madly in love with Brian Baldinger .
Dawg Nuts - February 9, 2012
I’m sending hm a Valentine card…
Poppawolf - February 9, 2012
Brownie's Year - February 9, 2012
I regret that I have but one rec to give for this photoshop.
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
But boy do I dislike his Superbowl pick.
nickjs21 - February 10, 2012
Yeah. It’s just as crazy as saying Griffin will take us to the playoffs in his first year.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
In related news, Jordan Norwood is ecstatic.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
Norwood is gunna get a sic new ride for giving up his number.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
How much better does Norwood get with RG3 throwing to him? Hell, they all get better.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
He only gets better if he gets on the damn field.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
They started playing him more but he had
staph,high ankle sprain, a concussion for the last couple of games.HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d826d2570/Predictions-from-the-Great-Baldini
In related news Andrew Siciliano says he is a lifetime Browns fan.
HenryDawg - February 9, 2012
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