Morning Dawg Chow (2/6/12)
by Jon @ DBN on Feb 6, 2012 8:10 AM EST
Cleveland Browns:
- "On Super Sunday, do the Cleveland Browns have a super plan to get their QB?" (Plain Dealer) - This is a topic that has already been beat to death at Dawgs By Nature. Still, it's interesting to read other people's take. Bud Shaw believes the Browns have the "opportunity to fix the QB once and for all."
- "Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about new Browns" (Plain Dealer) - Terry Pluto talks about the WCO, Childress, and what that might mean for the Browns. He also touches on the draft and mentions a name he's been hearing around this week being North Carolina DE Quinton Coples.
- "Childress' addition seen as positive" (Pro Football Weekly) - This is short but sweet. It basically expands on the title slightly stating, "...the presence of a coach with 13 years NFL experience can't hurt, the way we hear it."
- "Browns not on Manningham's mind, especially today: Super Bowl Insider" (Plain Dealer) - Mary Kay Cabot talked with Mario Manningham before the big game about how his contract is up and, being a Warren, Ohio native, whether he'd like to end up in Cleveland. Manningham said, "I'm not really thinking about that right now."
NFL:
- "Giants beat Patriots in the Super Bowl" (Yahoo! Sports) - In case you haven't heard, the Giants beat the Patriots in Super Bowl XLVI. The score was 21-17. If you're reading this, you probably already knew that, but I couldn't justify snubbing the Super Bowl.
- "Roger Goodell let down by Pro Bowl" (ESPN) - Wait! Before you immediately move on to the next link, consider that there is more to this article. Goodell actually goes on to say that if the league cannot improve the quality of play, they'll consider eliminating the game all together.
- "Green Bay QB Aaron Rodgers wins MVP award" (AP) - Here's some more Earth-shattering news. Aaron Rodgers won the league MVP award in a landslide vote. Out of 50 votes, Rodgers received 48. Second was Drew Brees with two votes.
- "Martin, 4 linemen make Hall of Fame" (AP) - Here is the Pro Football Hall of Fame's Class of 2012: Curtis Martin (RB), Chris Doleman (DE/LB), Cortez Kennedy (DT), Willie Roaf (OT), Dermontti Dawson (C), and senior selection Jack Butler (CB).
More chow! Seems appropriate given that nearly all the SB ads had dogs in them.
Manningham went from Warren OH to Michigan – there’s no way in the world he will have any allegiance to Cleveland/Ohio. I know she was going for the local angle, but I think MKC could have targeted one of the many other NEOH players to get the local perspective – especially a player who didn’t outright snub the hometown team (i.e., going to Michigan of all universities).
Spidey - February 6, 2012 via mobile
What I found most amusing was the choice to interview and ask him on the day of the Super Bowl, the biggest game of this kid’s life. As it turns out he was thinking about the Super Bowl over his contract.
Jon @ DBN - February 6, 2012
Also didn’t he say he was a Steeler fan? He’s OK but seems inconsistent.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
Will give him a hat tip for a heckuva catch. MoMass would have come down with 3 feet out of bounds.
realmccoy - February 6, 2012
I honestly think we should go for Couples. Seeing the Giants d-line be so effective. We need to follow suit. And couples would be a great pick up as well!
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
But Couples is pretty old and has had recurring back problems. He’s better off sticking to the links.
Dawg Nuts - February 6, 2012
But the ladies still love him.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
especially on the back 9.
J. W. - February 6, 2012
After seeing the Giants’ highly drafted QB be so successful, perhaps we should follow that strategy.
Legoman0721 - February 6, 2012 via Android app
Yeah. The Gaints d-line is great, but they also have that QB situation completely handled.
Jon @ DBN - February 6, 2012
I don’t think they are stressing over all they gave up to move up to number 1 to get Eli
realmccoy - February 6, 2012
But they had so many other holes to fill . . . I mean they could’ve gotten a right tackle!
TheDriveStillHurts - February 6, 2012
I’m not against that either. But if we’re to happen, IMO opinion I’d only want Luck, if we get RG3 I won’t be mad. I’ll only get furious if we package everything to move up 2 spots to get RG3.
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
Personally I think Coples is riskier as a pass rusher than Griffin is as a QB.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
Get prepared to be furious. We are moving up to number 2 to get RGIII my friend. We should still be able to hold on to that first rounder though. A second should do the trick.
realmccoy - February 6, 2012
Ha…that’s funny. H&H don’t move up….or they die. Simple, really
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
What’s actually funny is anyone pretending that either scenario is certain.
Jon @ DBN - February 6, 2012
Exactly. Great point, and I guess with whatever decision is made, no matter what we will have to deal with and because we can’t change it.
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
3 months to haggle over this topic…should be fun.
Red-Right-88 - February 6, 2012
Oh it’ll be a blast.
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
I’m over it already. Time for OT Threads.
Brownie's Year - February 6, 2012
Oh yes they do. Moved up for Montario and Big Phil. If they have Griffith in the crosshairs -they will move up in a heartbeat and not take the risk. Won’t even think of taking the risk of waiting.
realmccoy - February 6, 2012 via mobile
They don’t move up for QBs. Other people.yes, but not QBs
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
Heckert moved up to grab Kevin Kolb in 2007. Thanks for playing.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 6, 2012
And Holmgren?
lightninmcqueen - February 6, 2012 via mobile
Holmgren was part of the front office that traded a first rounder for Favre.
Bernie19Kosar - February 6, 2012
and part of the coaching staff that traded for Steve Young. Considering he was Young’s coach in college, he likely had more say than your average OC too.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
Whether or not Holmgren specifically traded up isn’t as relevant anyways. Heckert did it and he is the true decision maker in this case, Holmgren is just the tiebreaker kind of guy who will occasionally pull rank
bross09 - February 6, 2012
Dude, Holmgren has stated several times he was in talks with St Louis over Sam Bradford. I don’t think the big show would hesitate to pull the trigger to move up.
Kimble_79 - February 7, 2012
It was widely reported he tried to trade up for him.
Roger Dorn - February 7, 2012
Before bross jumps in and corrects me, I confess error. Heckert traded back his first round pick and grabbed Kolb in the beginning of the second. Philly fans must have been thrilled he used their first pick in that draft for a backup QB. Wow, I am surprised he is still alive.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 6, 2012
I was trusting you on your word on this one…
bross09 - February 7, 2012
so because they supposedly haven’t done it in the past, they won’t? When did these guys ever trade up for a DT before Phil Taylor. Holmgren is a QB guru, Heckert believes in the importance of the QB. Not having done it before isn’t going to stop them.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
Coples is riskier in the top 5 (or even top 10) than Luck is even if we have to trade up (and we won’t have to package “everything”).
I am not buying high on the Coples stock just because he had a good senior bowl. He is really inconsistent.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
The next time an elite quarterback refuses to play for the team that drafts him and demands a trade to Cleveland, I think we should accommodate him.
woodsmeister - February 6, 2012
That’s where I’d look at 22.
nickjs21 - February 6, 2012 via Android app
Yep, if we can snag Ingram or mercilus. Would prefer both to coples.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
What’s the DBN consensus on Perry from USC? I don’t see a problem with any DE projected to be a late first/early second guy, but Perry is the one I know least about.
nickjs21 - February 6, 2012
I don’t know a ton about Perry, but he is 6’3’’ 250. I remember Benard was 6’2’’ 256ish last year and there were rumors they would move him to LB. He might not reach his full potential here but he is good.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
I think Bud Shaw has been reading DBN, I don’t think he shared this opinion as recently as a month ago.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
His argument in the article was definitely similar to some of the sentiment thrown around here. But at the same time, there are a lot of dissenting opinions on DBN too. I still want to keep #22 and #37 and am willing to settle with Blackmon to do it. I still think we’ll get RG3 at 4 though.
Jon @ DBN - February 6, 2012
I dunno. Before winning the stiffarm trophy – he was a world class track athlete. Thing the only reason we think he may be available at 4 is all the buzz and hype Luck has got. In a normal year, think RGIII is being compared to Cam Newton.
realmccoy - February 6, 2012
If those folks in St Louis & Minnesota like there QB’s , then they’d be stupid to not take the two best left tackles. If it anyone farther back than us, trying to trade up, they miss out on there LT’s – IMO I cannot see then passing that opportunity up. So the big question comes down to this – Does Robert Griffin give our front office talent evaluators a big chubby or not?
It’s been documented that he’s bright – degrees early and all, it’s a good thing to be smart, especially at the QB spot. Do we have enough talent to surround him so he can be everything that we all dream about? Can we get our hands on that talent? We are in for a very interesting ride this year my friends.
Stay Thirsty!
J. W. - February 6, 2012
We can always get more surrounding role players in this draft and FA period as well as all the others to come over the next decade.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
Bingo. I can find WR’s in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I can’t find a QB there.
Bernie19Kosar - February 6, 2012
It certainly appears true that he’s smart, but that just isn’t the same as thinking on your feet. He got a lot more time to write essays than he will to read NFL defenses. I’d love to read something (authoritative) on how well he projects to do the latter. Still I get the feeling that even without adding more talent around him he could improve the W-L figures.
JustBob - February 6, 2012
I don’t think Bud knows how to read.
realmccoy - February 6, 2012
How the heck is Cris Carter not in the HOF? If the voters are being petty about his relationship with the media, well, we hear ya, now grow up and vote him in.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
If they voted him in now, It would’ve created a shitstorm of a log jam for classic players in the future.
SpecialBrownie - February 6, 2012
How so? His qualifications far exceed many other receivers of recent eras who are in the HOF or candidates. I get the “there are a lot of receivers” argument. So what? Vote in one a year. If Curtis Martin and Cortez Kennedy are getting in he should definitely be in.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
Cortez Kennedy was one of the most underrated players of the 90s, and had he played for a team in a major market or a good team, he would be first ballot. Curtis Martin is arguable, but he had an absurdly consistently good career and I would vote him over Carter in a minute.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 6, 2012
Chris Carter was the second receiver ever with 1000 receptions. Curtis Martin was very, very good, but Carter was truly one of the best receivers of his generation.
notthatnoise - February 6, 2012
I agree on Kennedy. Kennedy was a very good player and should be in the HOF, but This is Carter’s, what? 3rd year of eligibility? maybe 4th, and he is easily a top 10 receiver of all time.
I understand the people that wanted to vote in Rice before Carter, and vote in guys like Sharpe/Sanders last year, but this should’ve been Carter’s year.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
This is my point, it’s not that Kennedy, Roaf or Martin shouldn’t be in eventually but that they go in before CC is terrible.
HenryDawg - February 6, 2012
That CC should be relegated to a 6th ballot HOFer, sending a message that he is no better historically than Charlie Joiner or Bob Griese or Larry Csonka.
Charlie Joiner was certainly a fine player, but he got in quicker than Carter and that is terrible. Something tells me it’s more about what he did on the field.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
*sorry, more than about what he did on the field.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
What’s the hurry? Do you know how long Gene Hickerson waited to get in?
On the other hand, if they let one of those Wideouts in then the other two should be. One problem with WR’s is that you have Lynn Swann in the Hall with terrible career stats. 5,462 and 51 TD’s How do you tell others that have better stats and played on worse teams that they shouldn’t be in?
Heck, Webster Slaughter had 8,111 and 44 TD’s…
Red-Right-88 - February 6, 2012
Chris Carter is one of he best receivers in history and I believe this was his 5th year of eligibility and he still isn’t in.
He will eventually get in, but the HOF voters often use how long you wait as a statement of how good you were.
Aikman, marshall FaulkDeion Sanders, Emmitt, Rice, Rod Woodson, and Bruce Smith are some of the recent 1st ballot HOFers.
2nd Ballot guys are Roaf, John Randle, Darrell Green, Curtis martin, Bruce matthews.
5th ballot guys are guys like Gary Zimmerman, Dermontti Dawson, and James Lofton.
He clearly belongs (in terms of HOF worthiness) as a 1st or 2nd ballot guy. I remember hearing that Carter was being kept off until Rice was inducted but that was 2 years ago. No reason he should be a 6th ballot HOFer but 3rd in reception yards
bross09 - February 6, 2012
And Gene Hickerson was one of the best Offensive Lineman in history. Hey it probably comes down to Carter ticking off some sportswriters over the years and now they make him wait. that wouldn’t be the first time.
In the end it is not when you go in, just that you get in.
Red-Right-88 - February 7, 2012
Lynn Swann shouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame. Not even close.
The guy averaged 600 yards receiving a season.
Bernie19Kosar - February 6, 2012
Agreed, although Tony Grossi said yesterday, getting in the football HOF is not always about stats. Namath got in because of his SB win, Swann for his SB catch….but his stats suck.
Red-Right-88 - February 7, 2012
You have to compare it to the era you played in. Lynn Swan’s numbers were pretty good relative to other WRs in his day.
Roger Dorn - February 7, 2012
That’s what I thought until I looked at the numbers. The guy only went to the Pro Bowl 3 times.
His numbers are middle of the road.
Bernie19Kosar - February 7, 2012
Pro Bowls aren’t something I look at.
Roger Dorn - February 7, 2012
I think it plays a role when we are talking about the HOF. The guy wasn’t considered one of the best WR’s in the AFC 6 out of the 9 years he was in the NFL.
Add in the fact that his numbers are at best okay, even considering the time period he played in, and it leads me to believe that the only reason he is in the NFL is because of the catches in the Super Bowl.
Bernie19Kosar - February 7, 2012
Tell me which of the 5 non-vet committee guys who got voted in just now should not have gotten in in favor of Cris Carter?? The answer is none of them. It’s very easy to say “this guys should’ve been voted in” but there are only 5 spaces. And all five guys voted in ahead of Cris deserved it more. That’s the breaks. I think Carter makes it eventually but until there aren’t five guys more deserving than him, he is going to have to keep waiting.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 6, 2012
He should have gotten in last year over Richard Dent.
Bernie19Kosar - February 6, 2012
The whole “only five per year” thing is stupid. It’s an artificial limitation that is basically admitting they are too lenient with who they let in. The baseball hall of fame is the only one that actually deserves the title, and even they get it wrong sometimes.
notthatnoise - February 6, 2012
Most of the time is more like it.
J. W. - February 6, 2012
I think by and large MLB gets it right. They’re very selective, which is good. People still use things like wins and RBIs to evaluate players, though, and that’s bad.
notthatnoise - February 6, 2012
I’d say he deserves it at least as much as Kennedy, martin, Dawson, or Roaf. I don’t remember much about Jack Butler.
bross09 - February 6, 2012
If we draft Coples, we are going to lose a lot of 10-3 games next season.
Bernie19Kosar - February 6, 2012
11 or 12.
Roger Dorn - February 6, 2012
But we have so many holes elsewhere, we can’t possibly trade any of our picks for a franchise QB!
TheDriveStillHurts - February 6, 2012
a lot of 11-5 games, you mean
macdowellm03 - February 6, 2012
Both Pluto and the departed Grossi were “getting the sense” that we were drafting a defensive player. This clearly is coming from someone in the organization, but given the PD’s track record, I am thinking they are deliberately being misled by the front office. (smokescreen)
Roger Dorn - February 6, 2012
I like that strategy. Make the competition think we are as uninterested as possible.
Jon @ DBN - February 6, 2012
That’s what I am hoping for.
Lull everyone to sleep, then pounce on draft day.
Bernie19Kosar - February 6, 2012
And Irsay is just nutty enough to draft RG3 and then pounce with all we have!
Red-Right-88 - February 6, 2012
I’m comfortable with the front office punking the Plain Dealer, but come free agency, I’d wager the tea leaves will be there to be read in terms of several teams’ drafting intentions, and we’ll probably be among them.
I’m hoping Manning gets gobbled up by the Phins and Flynn goes to the Skins, possibly sating our chief competition’s taste for a bidding war.
ouched - February 6, 2012
Hmph.
SpecialBrownie - February 6, 2012
hear here
pwndabear - February 6, 2012
Why does everybody keep talking about QB problems??
We don’t have QB problems with the Browns, we have WR problems!! Leading the NFL in dropped passes should tell even a middle school drop out that our problem is not the QB, Colt has been getting the ball to our WR’s but they just can’t hold on to the ball(especially Greg little!)…Our draft needs are WR(J.Blackmon), and RT(Mike Adams t-osu) to keep Colt on his feet!
okhornfan - February 7, 2012
we have many problems…no one is disputing that, we just want our franchise QB.
Red-Right-88 - February 7, 2012
Wait, they lead the league in dropped passes? Nope, I don’t believe that. Someone would have mentioned it before, and I’ve never read that here.
nickjs21 - February 7, 2012
Unfortunately he is correct
Kimble_79 - February 7, 2012
I think you missed it.
Bernie19Kosar - February 7, 2012
/hits sarcasm meter with palm, looks at it, shakes it
nickjs21 - February 7, 2012
/shakes head in disgust for missing the meter
Kimble_79 - February 7, 2012
We have had a QB problem since the return.
Roger Dorn - February 7, 2012
Without the context of the comment it’s replying to, this would be an understatement.
Jon @ DBN - February 7, 2012
Nice to finally get a neutral, unbiased opinion on Colt McCoy. Thank you, okhornfan.
Dawg Nuts - February 7, 2012
The reason we keep talking about the QB, is because we don’t have one.
Bernie19Kosar - February 7, 2012
sigh.
notthatnoise - February 7, 2012
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