Newsflash, we're not going to the Super Bowl next year. So my strategy is based on the continuation of a push to serious stability and then Super Bowl contention.
This will only be Heckert's third draft.
First draft landed us:
Haden (Impact starter)
Ward (Impact starter)
Hardesty (Jury is still out)
McCoy (Starter, tough kid, good pedigree, Jury still out)
Lauvao (Starter, or excellent depth at G)
No 4th Round pick
Assante (lost on Roster shuffle to TB)
Mitchell (6th round fail)
Geathers (6th round fail)
2nd Draft Landed us:
Browns traded 6th pick to ATL for 27, 59, & 124 in 2011 as well as 22 & 117 in 2012. Browns then traded 2011 27 & 70 for #21.
Taylor (Impact Starter)
Sheard (Impact Starter)
Little (Impact starter, led league in rookie receptions despite drops)
Cameron (West Coast needs LOTS of TEs, jury out on 4th rounder)
Marecic (We'd view him differently if we hadn't let our last FB go)
Skrine (Excellent 5th round value, Great cover & zone DB)
Pinkston (Great 5th round value, Learning & Strong)
Haag (7th rounder, finished STRONG last 6 games last year)
This year we draft 4, 22, 37, 68, 100, 118, 131, & 194.
We're not going to win the Super Bowl next year. Or the year after. But if we draft well this year and next we might just compete for one by 2014. That's what this is about. I want the Cleveland Browns to play in a Superbowl in the next five years. Keep value and add depth longterm. Build through young talent & depth. Stop with the "savior" bullshit and give me talent at all positions.
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0 recs | 342 comments
This is Heckert’s third BROWNS draft. He started January 2, 2006 in Philly and I’ll assume he started drafting at the 2006 NFL draft. His drafts prior are as follows:
2006:
1: 14th overall: DT Broderick Bunkley
2: 39th overall: OT Winston Justice
3: 71st overall: LB Chris Gocong
4: 99th overall: G Max Jean-Giles
4: 109th overall: WR Jason Avant
5: 147th overall: WR Jeremy Bloom
5: 168th overall: LB Omar Gaither
6: 204th overall: DT LaJuan Ramsey
2007:
2: 36th overall: QB Kevin Kolb
2: 57th overall: DE Victor Abiamiri
3: 87th overall: LB Stewart Bradley
3: 90th overall: RB Tony Hunt
5: 159th overall: CB C.J. Gaddis
5: 162nd overall: TE Brent Celek
6: 201st overall: CB Rashad Barksdale
7: 236th overall: RB Nate Iloa
2008:
2: 47th overall: DT Trevor Laws
2: 49th overall: WR Desean Jackson
3: 80th overall: DE Bryan Smith
4: 109th overall: G Mike McGlynn
4: 117th overall: S Quintin Demps
4: 131st overall: CB Jack Ikegwuonu
6: 184th overall: OT Mike Gibson
6: 200th overall: LB Joe Mays
6: 203rd overall: DE Andy Studebaker
7: 230th overall: OT King Dunlap
2009:
1: 19th overall: WR Jeremy Maclin
2: 53rd overall: RB LeSean McCoy
5:153rd overall: TE Cornelius Ingram
5: 157th overall: CB: Macho Harris
5: 159th overall: OT Fenuki Tupou
6: 194th overall: WR Brandon Gibson
7: 213th overall: G Paul Fanaika
7: 230th overall: LB Moise Fokou
Of all these 9 still remain with the team.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
9 still remain on the team, but he had some good picks. Celek in the 5th? Shady at 53? macho harris and fokou are solid players. Avant is also a great value.
Interesting thing is in his 4th year, he drafted a QB with their first pick DESPITE having mcnabb.
bross09 - February 11, 2012
I may have said this in another post but I’m reminded of it every time LeSean McCoy gets mentioned.
“And with the 52nd pick of the 2009 NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select….
David frikkin’ Veikune."
Mal Reynolds - February 11, 2012
Also you have to look at that team already. They have Pro-Bowlers at key positions. They do not need to yield tons of players in every draft like a rebuilding team does. And I bet a lot of our picks fade out pretty fast. just bc they are BPA we have now, does not mean in 3 years they will be.
-bobby- - February 11, 2012
I would look at how many are still in the league. Also Kolb got them a pretty nice booty. I think hitting on 33% is pretty good for the draft, especially since 3-4 of those guys are pretty elite.
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
I believe you are right, 33% is good, especially since I recently read somewhere (don’t remember where since I read so damn many different places, lol) that 1st round draft choices had a 45% success rate, meaning they became starters. First round QB’s had a 41% chance of success and the percentages went down in each successive round. So, 33% is pretty darn good.
OldTimeDawg - February 11, 2012
this is the much more relevant measure.
DontCallMeJoey - February 13, 2012
Heckert proved his drafting skills in 1997. Jimmy Johnson drafted Yatil Green, WR from Miami (who, why?), in the 1st rd. Heckert, a scout for the dolphins, convinced JJ to take S.Madison because future HOFer, J.Taylor would ‘still’ be there in the 3rd. Been advising in drafts more and more, since then. In ‘99 Heckert was promoted to asst director of personnel. Director in ’00 before going to the Eagles in ’01 with same title.
I’d be willing to bet Heckert was responsible for a large number of eagles picks from ‘01-’05 as well.
Pretty certain, 2010 is his first at making the final decisions. “Except on QBs”, Holmgrens’ keeping that for himself. Heckert had 2 more promotions ($$$) in Philly but Reid always had the final say.
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
Source? I know Holmgren overruled him on McCoy, but since then he has been adamant that it’s Heckert’s show.
notthatnoise - February 13, 2012
That’s a myth. Heckert has said repeatedly that McCoy was the highest person on the draft board when he was taken. There was a DT ahead of him who Mangini & Heckert were set to take, and Holmgren was apparently having second thoughts about that, but then the Falcons took him a few picks ahead of McCoy so that issue was moot.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 13, 2012
That DT, Corey Peters, has turned out to be a pretty good player for Atlanta.
Heckert knows good players.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
Well there you go then, mystery solved.
notthatnoise - February 13, 2012
Still, if Holmgren wanted to ascend and make Heckert pick a guy, he could.
But he doesn’t. Just like he didn’t try to tell Mangini how to coach. Holmgren hires the right people and lets them do what they do, while setting the big-picture course for the franchise.
rufio - February 14, 2012
My source was Holmgren himself. He said in one his first press conferencess after hiring Heckert that, Tom was in charge of making all ‘final’ personnel decisions except QB.
DawgsNHawgs - February 24, 2012
Just wanted to point out that Heckert’s role in PHI was a lot different than what he has in Cleveland. In PHI he was regularly overruled by his HC. In PHI the only one that can overrule him is Holmgren and the only instance of this is the McCoy pick.
gentryholdem - February 13, 2012
This.
DawgsNHawgs - February 24, 2012
Stop with the “I want 8 average fill-ins” bullshit and give me a 1st round QB who has a chance of actually leading us deep into the playoffs.
Dawg Nuts - February 10, 2012
RG3 isn’t that guy…. Luck could only fill those shoes
lightninmcqueen - February 10, 2012 via mobile
What brand of crystal ball are you using?
rufio - February 11, 2012
Madam Ruby brand Crystal Balls
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
Ah. Just goes to show you what living int he south will do for you. I somehow thought he was referring to meth.
JustBob - February 12, 2012
Unless Griffin is as good as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning that’s not going to happen, and everyone should know that by now. We certainly need as much All-Pro talent as we can possess, but 99% of the time one player isn’t going to take us deep in the playoffs.
Brownsbacker488 - February 10, 2012
You really don’t know that. Look how many competitive teams didn’t do anything until the got the right QB.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
RGIII doesn’t have to play like Brady or Manning to be successful. Even if he just added a spark to the offense (similar to how Newton put some life into what was previously an awful Carolina offense) I would enjoy watching games more and have some hope and excitement for the future knowing we had a real NFL QB with potential to be elite with time, development, and an improved surrounding cast.
Vududawg - February 11, 2012
99% of the time, teams that go deep into the playoffs have a 1st round, superstar QB. We currently do not.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
Really? Show me the stats, please.
OldTimeDawg - February 11, 2012
Fine, it isn’t 99%, but it’s significant. SB winning QBs:
SB 46 – Eli Manning (1st rd.)
SB 45 – Aaron Rogers (1st rd.)
SB 44 – Drew Brees (first pick in 2nd rd.)
SB 43 – Ben Roethlisberger (1st rd.)
SB 42 – Eli Manning (1st rd.)
SB 41 – Peyton Manning (1st rd.)
SB 40 – Ben Roethlisberger (1st rd.)
SB 39 – Tom Brady (exception to rule)
SB 38 – Tom Brady (exception to rule)
SB 37 – Brad Johnson (late rounds)
SB 36 – Tom Brady (exception to rule)
SB 35 – Trent Dilfer (1st rd.)
SB 34 – Kurt Warner (undrafted)
SB 33 – John Elway (1st rd.)
SB 32 – John Elway (1st rd.)
SB 31 – Brett Favre (early 2nd rd.)
SB 30 – Troy Aikman (1st rd.)
SB 29 – Steve Young (1st rd., supplemental)
SB 28 – Troy Aikman (1st rd.)
SB 27 – Troy Aikman (1st rd.)
So in the last 20 Super Bowls, 15 of the winning QBs have been either 1st rounders or very high 2nd rounders, 3 others were Tom Brady, who is clearly a rare find in late rounds. That leaves 2, Brad Johnson and Kurt Warner.
Amongst the losing QBs in those games are some of the guys already mentioned as winners of other SBs, and a few other 1st rounders.
I don’t know what else you want.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
So what you’re saying is if you want a successful future you can make a good investment with a reasonable expectation of return or buy a lottery ticket.
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
Lots of lottery tickets.
If you would take these numbers and then also look at the numbers of QBs drafted by round, you would see a very, very strong correlation between successful QBs and being drafted high.
There are a ton of undrafted QBs who get into the NFL, and there is only one Kurt Warner out of all of them.
rufio - February 12, 2012
And one Tony Romo and the rest are matt moores.
bross09 - February 12, 2012
Please, they would wish to be Matt Moores
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
This is actually a very good point. Matt Moore has already far exceeded any reasonable expectations.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
At best.
rufio - February 12, 2012
Holy shit Dilfer was a first rounder?
ctowndawgpound - February 12, 2012
Him and Shuler were the top QBs that year. I used to collect their football cards.
Brownie's Year - February 12, 2012
Yo Dawg,
The one thing I see in that list is those are almost ALL pocket passers. None of them are pure athletes. All of them are pocket passers with the absolute exception of Steve Young and the minor exception of Roethlisberger (big brusier breaking tackles and scrambling.)
RG3 is 6’2 6’3 220. Basically we’d have a 2" taller 20 pound heavier version of Vick. If the hype plays out. Can he win on grass? Better yet can the Browns switch to synthetic turf like Ohio States field? Because if we’re going to make it work with RG3 in Cleveland we better not have turf issues.
gentryholdem - February 13, 2012
I think its been fairly well established that Griffin can play from the pocket if given time and runs if he needs to. Baylor’s O Line was a joke.
HenryDawg - February 14, 2012
Needs to? He would never need to, the man can literally outrun everyone.
rufio - February 15, 2012
I mean he runs when the protection collapses or if he can’t find an open target.
HenryDawg - February 15, 2012
We’d probably also want him to run at times.
rufio - February 15, 2012
Like designed runs? No problem, keep em honest.
HenryDawg - February 15, 2012
this is all kinds of incorrect.
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Griffin is a pocket passer who can run when he needs to. He’s a much better passer than Vick.
notthatnoise - February 15, 2012
Yeah, he’s looked really good in the nfl so far.
FrenchToast979 - February 15, 2012
What?
notthatnoise - February 16, 2012
Vick threw a pretty damn good ball in college but was mainly drafted for his speed. Griffin beats Vick in both aspects.
Brownie's Year - February 15, 2012
RG3 is also 9 and a half years younger.
Jon @ DBN - February 15, 2012
Sorry, I meant as a college prospects. I would draft Griffin over college Vick if they were both coming out this year.
Brownie's Year - February 15, 2012
I don’t know man, Vick’s first step is ridiculous.
rufio - February 16, 2012
I do think people take this too far as well. Baylor ran inverted veer and play action off of it. His running ability was utilized to help that offense go.
rufio - February 16, 2012
That’s true, but it’s pretty obvious he was a pass-first player.
notthatnoise - February 16, 2012
When he was asked to drop back, yes. He kept his eyes downfield and tried to find open guys while buying time instead of taking off immediately looking to advance the ball himself.
But the offense was designed partially around Griffin’s running ability—or at worst the threat of him running. And honestly, I would hope any NFL offense he plays in will feature him in this capacity at least a little bit. But in any event, you see those run fakes setting up some of his highlight passes. So I am uncomfortable with “pass-first player.” From what I’ve read their offense was based on ball-controll passes, while working in those shotgun QB options and then PA off of those option plays. So “pass-first offense” I am more comfortable with.
rufio - February 16, 2012
One side of the arguement is ‘1st round QBs get to the Superbowl’.
The other, less popular, side is ‘more 1st rounders do NOT get there’. A lot of ’em dont even get close.
Those that do, are usually mid to late 1st rd.
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
And even fewer guys from other rounds get there. What is your point? Yes, most QBs drafted into the NFL never reach the superbowl. But your odds are much higher with a first round guy. If I offered you two lottery tickets, one with a 40% chance to win and one with a 3% chance to win, which would you take?
notthatnoise - February 13, 2012
Wow. You need to learn something about probabilities and basic, basic statistics.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 13, 2012
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
Oof.
nickjs21 - February 13, 2012
I agree with you in a way. People seem to think that if we draft Griffin, we cannot add anything else to the team. We’d still have FA, more picks this year and next, and next years FA and all the following years. I don’t really want Griffin, but I agree with the fact that we need somebody soon, if not now. It’d take three picks, maybe four for Griffin, one of which is extra anyway.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
I don’t want “8 average fill-ins.” I never said that. I want impact starters at all positions. You do that through the draft. You don’t pull a Washington or Atlanta and trade away 2 and 3 starters for 1 guy.
YOU PICK RIGHT! Sometimes you sign through free agency.
gentryholdem - February 13, 2012
You do if it’s for a QB. Ask the Giants.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
You’ve got the situation reversed. We don’t give up 2-3 first & second rounders to move up a few spots for RGIII. You do that for Andrew Luck.
gentryholdem - February 17, 2012
How do you know?
Dawg Nuts - February 17, 2012
How’s the situation reversed?
The Giants gave up two firsts (Merriman and Rivers) a 3rd (Nate Kaeding) and a 5th (ended up being Jerome Collins) for the better QB.
Do you think anyone in NY is pissed about that? Think there are some Charger fans that wish that they would have held onto Manning?
You always go after the QB. Always.
Bernie19Kosar - February 18, 2012
what is more often than always? b/c that is how often you go after the qb.
DontCallMeJoey - February 18, 2012
Great pedigree? By whom? the ass who threw the Browns trainers under the bus? Screw the McCoys and their whiny, excuse making followers. Get us a QB and let the rest of the pieces fall into place.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
Funny, his followers include Holmgren and Heckert. Keep drinking the Kool-aid.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
Really? You seem to be confusing a 3rd round stop gap, the best choice in that draft with a franchise QB. If he was a franchise QB he would be named the starter next year and we wouldn’t be talking about this.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
Really.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
Let’s face it. He was drafted as a project, was forced to start due to injuries, showed some promise and so got the nod for the next year, but didn’t really show much promise by the end of the season. Maybe HH&S have seen something to lead them to believe that he can be the guy, but if it’s there it’s hasn’t been visible to the general public.
JustBob - February 10, 2012
It is not just invisible to the general public, the entire world of football analysis says that Colt McCoy is average. Or maybe I’m wrong. Is there a respected voice out there, coach, former coach, some one whose views have been sound over the years, who says the Browns ought to stick with McCoy?
JamesPowell - February 10, 2012
I remember what this guy could do with receivers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Tda-n108s That voice is H&H.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
I went through about half of that video and all I see is Colt throwing to wide open receivers that the terrible Big 12 defenses cannot cover, and Colt breaking poor college tackling.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
Yeah, me too.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
I don’t get it, weren’t you defending McCoy? This video makes him look rather pedestrian.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
Yeah…pedestrian with receivers who can actually get YAC and TDs.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
That means that he isn’t that good
macdowellm03 - February 11, 2012
Now that is really subjective and depends on his supporting cast as well….or am I out in left field?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
So if I’m reading this right, you’re saying if Colt gets good receivers he has a chance to be pedestrian.
That’s what we’re shooting for? Neat.
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012
Pedestrian with good receivers and a decent pass rush could get us to the playoffs. But I was being sarcastic, I don’t see those highlights as pedestrian by any means. The throws were there on target.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Based on what?
Mediocre QB play gets you beat in the playoffs gets you beat every single time.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
We don’t have a mediocre QB. Here again, all I can say is we’ll see.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
What exactly is better than “mediocre” about 57.2% completion, 14:11 TD:INT, 5.9 YPA, 4.7 ANY/A, and a 74.6 QB rating?
rufio - February 12, 2012
How about throwing INT’s running to his right?
He does that better that average.
Bernie19Kosar - February 12, 2012
WAY better than average
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Disagree Dilfer, Big Bens first super bowl run was won on defense! Thats two off the top
27BUCKEYE27 - February 13, 2012
So that’s 2/12 for this millennium. Good odds. Also Dilfer and Big Ben played at a pretty high level for themselves in their SB runs.
HenryDawg - February 13, 2012
Big Ben was far from mediocre in his first SB win.
bross09 - February 13, 2012
Right, he was God awful.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
The refs were the MVPs of that game.
HenryDawg - February 13, 2012
I thought he meant good QBs make it look easy when they have good targets.
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
So I guess the Browns need to get Quan Cosby and Nate Jones and we’ll be all set
JamesPowell - February 10, 2012
Heath Evans formerly of the Saints, Pats, and Seahawks says McCoy will be great someday. Oh wait… you said a respected voice. Nope, can’t say i’ve heard any.
Vududawg - February 11, 2012
Off the top of my head, Jim Zorn and Curt Warner both were in Mccoy’s corner.
OldTimeDawg - February 11, 2012
I’m a Penn State guy, but I don’t trust the opinion of a 51 yr. old former RB on our starting QB.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
It seems more like the proverbial “kool-aid” to maintain faith in a 3rd round QB who hasn’t shown us he can be good enough for the NFL; and neither Holmgren nor Heckert have said they believe Colt will be our franchise QB.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
Sigh…
Brownsbacker488 - February 10, 2012
No offense, I appreciate your service, but how many games did you watch him play this year? You’re probably not in a position to comment other than pure emotion.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
Well then Bradford sucks too right? He put up worse numbers than McCoy this year.
dirtyjoe - February 11, 2012
Mostly I could care less about Bradford, but he’s had one good year, one bad and the bad one he was injured.
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
I don’t really want Bradford either, but I’d take him over McCoy.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
Agreed. I dont think Bradford is what he was all hyped up to be.
-bobby- - February 11, 2012
Yes.
Jon @ DBN - February 11, 2012
LOL. Right.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
H&H’s support for McCoy ranges all the way from lukewarm to tepid.
Kaner - February 10, 2012
I always get bombarded with this…“prove what you mean”.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
H&H’s support publicly is the only thing that it can be. They like him. If they say anything else they risk giving away what their plans are.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
Ever stop to think that the only “smokescreen” is the competition? And that they actually like the QB they have?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
I didn’t say “smokescreen.” I meant they wanted not to give anything away. A smokescreen is intentionally making it look like you are doing the opposite of what are actually going to do so that the competition does things around your fake plan. I think they do like him but that means nothing.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
I know you didn’t. When I say smokescreen I relate it to Cleveland fans calling for McCoys head when the FO still believes he can get it done. So they throw out a “competition” knowing full well that they are going to coach him up and he will start this year. “Publicly” they don’t want backlash.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
I see what you mean, but that competition will not be Griffin if that is true, because we can’t give those picks away if we are staying with McCoy anyway.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
So you’re saying yourself then that they’ve never come out in support of Colt as “the guy.”
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012
I think the presser said it all if you can read between the lines.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
You mean the part where they said next year will be a competition instead of sticking with the guy they named the starter this year? That ringing endorsement?
Crazy how you can pick through the debris but everyone else they’re trying to fool can’t.
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012
This.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
Sorry, i’ll just drink the kool-aid too. Yea!….the front office IS taking RG3!!!!
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
I think you’re completely missing the point. The point here isn’t that we think the front office is in love with RG3. The point is they are decidedly not in love with McCoy.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
Mike Holmgren stated he did love McCoy. I don’t think i’m missing anything. I’m not trying to be a dick. I’m trying to temper expectations. The RG3 madness is just that….madness.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
did he use the word “love”? If he did…awww, how cute!
bross09 - February 12, 2012
Can you present a single positive thing that could come out of H&H stating right now that Colt hasn’t panned out and that they’re looking for a QB? Seriously, name one good thing that would happen by them doing that.
Dawg Nuts - February 12, 2012
I haven’t read a single statement from the FO that says they are looking for a QB. They said we have young players we believe in and the will be a competition. Where in the world does that imply we are bringing anyone else in?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 13, 2012
NM…read that wrong.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 13, 2012
This entire line of comments has had nothing to do with Griffin. He is irrelevant here.
If the team loved Colt McCoy, there wouldn’t be a QB competition next year.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
Yes, RG3 has nothing to do with it.
But I will add, it seems more logical to have some kind of excitement over RG3 than it does over Colt.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
He loves him but he’s not “in love”
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
they need to talk.
pwndabear - February 12, 2012
It’s not him, it’s Pat.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
Lol. This.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
“Like McCoy” is enough for me. I dont believe the FO is “in love” with RG3 either. May be benificial to let people believe it if they want to tho.
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
Why not? Remember, we aren’t saying they love the guy or not. You’re the one making that claim.
Front offices like guys that they cut, too. Liking a guy doesn’t mean they think he’s a starter.
notthatnoise - February 13, 2012
I bet Shurmur disagrees with you.
HenryDawg - February 13, 2012
The front office has less than zero incentive to come out and say exactly what they think about any draft prospect right now.
And what the FO thinks about players should have little influence on how we think about them. We are allowed to second-guess their evaluations.
rufio - February 14, 2012
You are being ridiculous.
rufio - February 12, 2012
Well then I deserve the ridicule.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
Seriously man. You should take a break.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 13, 2012
Just for you….I didn’t mean to be harsh but this is the second place I read it. See ya in a month? Is that long enough? Naa…i’ll go til we draft.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 13, 2012
See you tomorrow.
HenryDawg - February 13, 2012
There saying, ‘Could be’. That’s all you get with RG3 as well.
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
Just because neither is guaranteed doesn’t mean they have the same risk.
notthatnoise - February 13, 2012
How in the world do you get that from what they’ve said? And if they’re worried about public backlash, they should all be fired immediately.
Dawg Nuts - February 11, 2012
Nobody would use someone they considered their franchise QB as a smokescreen. Wake up.
HenryDawg - February 10, 2012
We’ll see.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
What would be the benefit of them doing this? If they liked him, they would say that he is their guy. Period-point-blank.
The reason they are non-committal to the press about him is simple. If they can get something better, they will. If they can’t, they don’t want to bash the kid and make the player, the team and the fans realize that they “settled” for another year of Colt.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
The only reason I can think of is the vocal Browns fan base.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Then we would have the world’s dumbest front office.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
Prove that. Why?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
That the only reason my front office is not naming Colt McCoy “the guy” is because of the fan base?
What is there to prove? That would be the dumbest line of thinking. I really hope, and I believe, that this front office doesn’t give a rat’s rear about what the fans think about what they are doing.
They didn’t care when they hired a complete unknown in Shurmur, but now they care what the fans think about naming Colt McCoy starter? How does this make any sense?
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
Well, this is just a theory, but our fan base can be very vocal. If you want to avoid controversy call for a competition. I thought I explained it well enough earlier.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
If you want to avoid controversy, call for a competition.
The last half of that sentence is at odds with the first half of that sentence.
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012 via Android app
On the field, it’s a competition. In the stands, it’s a controversy. Maybe the fans’ need to change their views.
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
How have you convinced yourself of this?
nickjs21 - February 13, 2012
The yoga that Colt defenders go through to support him as the best option is pretty remarkable. But frankly, if you’re in that camp the burden of proof is on you. Since Colt’s first snap in the NFL, I don’t see how you can construct enough evidence to support his ability to play QB at this level. “We don’t know because of his supporting cast” is NOT an argument in his favor. It is at best ambivalent, and if that’s the best you can do then you have already lost.
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012 via Android app
The burden of proof has nothing to do with me or any of us.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
What I’m saying is, if you think Colt McCoy is a good quarterback in the NFL, YOU are the one who needs to support that statement because nothing on the field backs it up. If I say Colt McCoy is not a good QB in the NFL I can let his results speak for themselves.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
I really don’t. The FO likes him…that’s all I need.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
Fine, how about this: Show me the FO likes him, without using “read between the lines” in your answer. Don’t INFER it, show me.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
Read the press conference transcriphttp://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Holmgren-Heckert-press-conf-transcript—-15/b7a8f9e6-ff9c-42bb-86dc-0e76fa77dd62t,
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
Nice, I just clicked my own link and it’s expired. I swear it was there earlier.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
You and others, may think there’s ‘enough evidence to give up on McCoy’, but there are more of us that ‘want to see more before making that quick decision’.
It’s not about supporting cast as much as it is about learning a new offense and playing ‘under center’. RG3 will need a year or two as well.
So you gonna give up on RG3 in ’12, ’13 or ’14?
DawgsNHawgs - February 13, 2012
Read the Accorsi article link today. You have to get an elite QB when you have the chance to get one. Contrary to popular believe, there is nothing that just automatically makes us be able to get Barkley in 2013 If Colt doesn’t improve. Then you end up getting guys like Ponder and Gabbert.
HenryDawg - February 13, 2012
21 starts is no longer a “quick” decision.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
Well, then I guess the two I mentioned above (Zorn and Warner) are using that argument. Now, I’m not a Colt apologist, however, I am in the camp that we don’t go for RGlll, if anything, let him come to us at #4. If he and Blackmon are gone, we either trade down or go with Claiborne. So, that argument works for me and two ex-QB’s. I’ll take that stand, lol.
OldTimeDawg - February 11, 2012
If they think RGIII is the guy, then they need to move to get him. NOt any any cost, but at reasonable cast. The Browns can pay a reasonable cost and still have a decent draft.
The only thing necessary to remain in the cellar is for H&H to do nothing.
JustBob - February 12, 2012
They actually don’t do shit, they blame the rest of the team or make vague statements about his college career or make stupid attempts to link him to Alex Smith or Eli Manning. Suggesting they actually make the attempt or effort on the level of yoga is giving them too much credit.
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
DREW BREZ IS SHORTS!!!!!!
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
This was actually meant to be a lone comment, and not a reply (was using the SBN app), but it kind of fits here anyway so meh.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
people come up with the theory, but any FO that isn’t going to go with their gut and instead, pander to fans is dumb. I don’t take Heckert to be an idiot.
bross09 - February 12, 2012
I doubt Holmgren is pissing his pants whenever Dawg Pound Mike says he’s upset.
JustBob - February 12, 2012
Maybe with laughter.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
no.
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
This thread is filled with a bunch of crap already.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
Buuuuhhh
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
Yeeeaaahhhh, you shouldn’t say that to me.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
What should I say then?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
Don’t “Buh” me.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
Buh.
macdowellm03 - February 10, 2012
I didn’t want to but on behalf of all previous posters….are we are crap?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
or
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
I was talking about the sh*t that has been non-stop been being discussed on this site.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
I’m cool with that….lott’o crap til the draft I expect.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
All these fanposts are friggin’ killing me. They’re all the same damn question.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
Me too brother…just had some fight in me tonight.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
You and I gunna have a Drunk Off?
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
Let’s go!
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
The year before last, I got a tripps pack of Brown’s tickets. I saw them plat the Panthers, Falcons and Patriots. I was thinking if I got a tripps pack again this year, I would have a Browns essay contest for one of the games on DBN. Take one of my DBN fellowship to the game. Cool or stupid?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 10, 2012
Seriously.
rufio - February 11, 2012
The posters aren’t crap, the posts are. There’s a huge difference.
notthatnoise - February 11, 2012
Can I ask which ones?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
It would be quicker to list the ones that aren’t crap.
notthatnoise - February 11, 2012
I know what you mean. I was confusing comments and posts.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
This is a Fanpost that has no reason to exist.
nickjs21 - February 11, 2012
Wait. You list Lauvao as a potential starter. I thought he was supposed to be one of the weakest links on that line. I’m sure it didn’t help playing next to Hicks/cousins/Broken Pashos, but I wasn’t aware that he had done anything that would warrant him starting without an injury ahead of him in the depth chart.
JustBob - February 10, 2012
He really didn’t do that bad. Flat out starter, no. But he has a lot of starting experience and he can fill the role. Needs to cut off his penalties though.
Brownie's Year - February 10, 2012
I like him as a backup, and I wouldn’t really mind to much if he was a starter next year, but I think he’s the weakest link on the line.
notthatnoise - February 11, 2012
Uhh man, this is tuff. I like the kid. He works hard. I really don’t have a problem with him starting.
Brownie's Year - February 11, 2012
Agreed. As a 3rd round pick he’s a good player/value to hold down the RG position until an upgrade can be made and could possibly develop into very good (I think Pinkston could too). I don’t recall too many instances of seeing him get flat out beat and/or consistently dominated throughout a game. It’s also hard for my untrained eye to tell which times the issue were his execution or more miscommunication with the revolving door to his right, both of which can be improved.
Haven’t really looked but I don’t think there’s a Jahri Evans type interior OL on the FA market and this probably isn’t the draft where we take an OG in Rds 1-2.
Mal Reynolds - February 11, 2012
agreed.
bross09 - February 11, 2012
Too many stupid penalties
dirtyjoe - February 11, 2012
yes, but he was still a nice player besides that. Why I’d rather have him as a backkup
bross09 - February 11, 2012
From what I saw, Lauvao was the weakest link by far. He got bulldozed off the line pretty easily and never really saw him in the "second level. I think an upgrade there lessens what you saw from the RT, but IMO Pashos is too slow now to keep up with a speed guy on the edge.
-bobby- - February 11, 2012
I’ve said it all season and I’ll say it again here; he’s got the physical tools, he just makes too many mistakes in determining/executing his assignments properly. The penalties don’t help.
rufio - February 11, 2012
I can see some merit to that, and maybe with an offseason and a bit of coaching he can get better. I’m certainly not the final word in judging O-line talent. But if I wanted to sea lawyer you I could point out that St. Clair had a lot of starting experience.
JustBob - February 10, 2012
OK talent….
Blackmon
Mercilus
Sanders
Iloka
Streeter
Foles
Posey
Carder
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Don’t like Mercilus.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
I thought u did.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
No.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
How bout the rest?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Like Blackmon, just not for us. Don’t know what Sanders you listed. Iloka looks okay, haven’t watched him enough yet to be firm with him. Don’t like Foles.
I think Posey can play at the next level, would be a steal in the third. Like Tank Carder, think he will be a very good pro for a long time. Won’t make a ton of splash plays but will rack up tackles and be a solid defender. Probably will slide because the dreaded “lack of athleticism” tag.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
Zebrie Sanders. I know Foles is a reach but if we are stuck….the more the merrier.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Thoughts? Of the handful of draft guys I respect, only one has been vocal against him.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
I don’t think he is a good enough of an athlete to ever be an impact-level pass rusher. When I watch him, it seems like a lot of his pressures are from his “don’t quit” going after the passer. Seems to get high at times making him much easier to control. His motor is a definite plus. I think he will be okay, but never sniffing 10 sacks a season.
Honestly, I don’t like him in the second round.
Bernie19Kosar - February 12, 2012
Oh man, if we can’t get RG3 or Blackmon I would try to swap with Seattle and take him at 12. I think he’ll be gone soon after that if not earlier. People are comparing him to JPP and any DE with a high motor and reasonable athleticism is a nightmare for QBs and his athleticism is pretty high from what I’ve read. Dream draft would be Griffin then Mercilus but I doubt he’s there at 22 (if we still have it)
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
Hmm, I’m not sure I’d say that. JPP seems to have the ability to blow past tackles. The main concern I’ve heard from Mercilus is his first steps are too slow.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
JPP had freakish size and athleticism and not much refinement. I haven’t watched Mercilus much but if he had those things to go along with his stats he’d be a top 10 pick.
rufio - February 12, 2012
mercilus is an inch shorter and about 15 pounds lighter. I think Ingram has that DE/DT size and could weigh in close to 280 (and still do great in drills) but doesn’t have that elite JPP arm length.
bross09 - February 12, 2012
best thing about him is his last name
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
I think we should steal Mr. Peabody’s WABAC Machine and trade all of our draft picks for the rights to Spergon Wynn.
Adrock2099 - February 11, 2012
Man, that takes me back. I wanna watch Underdog, Rocky and Bullwinkle and Hong Kong Phooey now.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
you should start using the subject line and giving us two options for your post titles
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
The New Kardiad Kids: sarcasm or not?
Like this?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
On the next pwnda-post: The Comeback Crusader -or- Facetious Jerkwad
you mustve never watched rocky and bullwinkle…
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
Lol. I totally missed the reference.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
That was a few
braincellsyears ago.The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Btw, Facetious, sure. Jerkwad….not so much.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
me or you?
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
Gotta be you.
notthatnoise - February 11, 2012
Neither? Both?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
He’s an injury prone mediocre (at best) running back.
Jon @ DBN - February 11, 2012
he scored a touchdown once for me in madden.
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
Spin move?
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
spin move.
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
i totally took the browns to the superbowl and won. and i dont mean that as a poop reference either.
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
Today I took the Browns to the superbowl and won. and I do mean that as a poop reference.
bross09 - February 11, 2012
It would be terrible to lose.
notthatnoise - February 11, 2012
I lost once…
bross09 - February 12, 2012
speaking of madden, anyone play for the 360?
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
yes, but don’t have live. Not worth the pay, especially since I am seriously considering switching systems.
bross09 - February 11, 2012
I sorta agree with this but when your whole team average is around 3.5 (I think), isn’t that also indicative of poor blocking schemes?
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
But consider all the catches out of the backfield.Jon @ DBN - February 11, 2012
Well, hopefully with Chilly on board things won’t look so bleak with what we end up with player-wise.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 11, 2012
Most teams run right. With Steinbach not pulling and Pashos being pashos it didn’t help
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
Steiny comes back, Luavo stays at RG and Pinkston moves over to RT. Line fixed.
DaveDawg09 - February 11, 2012
I’d rather have Pinkston at RG, Lauvao as a backup, and a 2nd/3rd round RT.
bross09 - February 11, 2012
I would bet Pinkston stays at LG, and Steinbach moves to the right. I do not know how many more years they want from Steinbach, but I do not see them moving their young G to make him learn the opposite side now and take away a young left side of the line in general of Thomas-Pinkston-Mack.
-bobby- - February 11, 2012
LG is very vital to pulling, as teams usually run more often to the right. Steiny is amazing at pulling and the Browns need him pulling to the right.
bross09 - February 11, 2012
Sorry for a repost, but in a same argument on another post I sent this out:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/23/help-wanted-cleveland-browns/
I know some are not huge into PFF, but they do not think highly of steinbach at all. I was trying to search for actual grading of him, but the only thing I found was his name in the "20 worst Madden Rankings." I was trying to find an article from Pluto referencing Steinbach too, because he has brought up this notion that Steinbach is not as good as everyone thinks as well.
Here’s a blurb about Steinbach in their "20 Worst Madden Rankings:"
3. Eric Steinbach, G, Cleveland (91). Steinbach was our 85th-ranked guard out of 86 last year, which is enough said. Steinbach was particularly poor at run blocking, and he gets a laughable score of 91 from Madden in run block — four points ahead of LT Joe Thomas! Thomas was the best run-blocker in the NFL last year, bar none, yet Madden sticks him with an 87 in run blocking. Absurd.
Needless to say, I think Steinbach is getting by on past reputation and not actual play now. I mean this points out his run blocking as bad- which is supposed to be his strength no?
-bobby- - February 12, 2012
Since my post to you was long, I will sum it up again.
He had a bad 2009 and they bash him once or twice before 2010, but he is not often mentioned as a bad player and doesn’t rank in their bottom 20 guards in Pass Pro, whereas he is in the bottom 20 between 2008-2010…pretty much all because of a horrendous, in their opinion, 2009. Take that away, and he is an above average pass blocker.
As a run blocker, I already showed how he had an impact in 2010.
bross09 - February 12, 2012
Steinbach hasn’t been getting by on actual play because he hasn’t been…actually playing.
If/when he’s healthy, he’ll be just fine for us at LG. He’s not getting younger, but he’s more than decent for now.
rufio - February 12, 2012
Pinkston is not going to RT. Heckert flat out said that Pinkston and Steinbach are both G and would not move to RT. Heckert also flat out said at the time of the draft last year that Pinkston was drafted to be a G. I can point out whats not a smoke screen, and this my friends is definitely NOT a smoke screen. Pinkston is staying at G.
-bobby- - February 11, 2012
I think one of them would only move in an emergency situation, after several injuries.
rufio - February 11, 2012
Doesn’t Greco have experience at tackle?
notthatnoise - February 11, 2012
I have no idea.
rufio - February 12, 2012
Apparently he does: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/07/cleveland_browns_trade_for_ram.html
Also, note that this article mentions we would have owed St. Louis a pick if he became a starter. Perhaps that factored into his playing time.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
So we basically stole Greco from the Rams.
Brownie's Year - February 12, 2012
Seems like it. Score one for Heckert.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
Ya, I saw that we did not have to end up giving the Rams a pick because Greco only played 1/2 a quarter this year… and that was the best the OL played all year. Isnt Greco going to be like 26 or 27? Maybe they have an answer for RG now…
-bobby- - February 12, 2012
I was very surprised he didn’t play more this season. If they thought enough of him to risk a draft pick, you would think they would have used him.
notthatnoise - February 12, 2012
Especially because the quarter he played looked like the best pass pro any QB had all season.
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
Awesome.
rufio - February 12, 2012
That has to be some smooth talking to get a team to freely hand over a depth player… of any calabur.
Brownie's Year - February 12, 2012
And sushi. Don’t forget the sushi.
rufio - February 12, 2012
heh
Brownie's Year - February 12, 2012
Greco seemed to do well when he filled in for Lauvao.
dirtyjoe - February 12, 2012
He does and he seemed better than any of the non JT/Mack linemen we started this year. Clearly he is the Carlton Mitchell of the OL
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
I’m more positive than most (everyone?) on Hardesty. I am very excited to see what he can do this season two full years out from the ACL injury.
Bernie19Kosar - February 11, 2012
I am in this camp. I am not expecting him to be amazing, but I think he’ll look solid. Also excited to see BJax.
rufio - February 11, 2012
As much as I would love for a running back already under contract by the Browns to become legit, I honestly cannot get the least bit excited about Brandon Jackson and Montario Hardesty. I wish I could, but I really can’t.
Jon @ DBN - February 11, 2012
I’m counting on Ogbanaya and Carlton Mitchell to break out.
HenryDawg - February 11, 2012
All the way to the bank!
Jon @ DBN - February 12, 2012
I’ve been telling everyone that I think the same about Carlton. Just hope that he doesn’t get caught in a numbers game.The injury last year really hurt his growth.
ctowndawgpound - February 12, 2012
According to Pluto:
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2012/02/terry_plutos_talkin_about_colt.html
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
/facepalm
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Jackson would look really good as a 3rd down back. Not as good as Sproles or Shady McCoy, but he could help us get first downs on 3rd down.
rufio - February 12, 2012
i expect pretty much zero out of hardesty. bjax i think could be productive.
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Do you think he can start if Hillis is gone? Not too sure about that.
Brownie's Year - February 11, 2012
I think he can, but I think any RB can be a starter.
Bernie19Kosar - February 12, 2012
I worded that wrong. Of course any RB can start, but he probably won’t have the same impact that a Hillis brings. The running game drastically changes between the two.
Brownie's Year - February 12, 2012
I think any RB can give you 90% of what elite RB’s give. If Hardesty is healthy, and that is far from a given, I think he will be just as good, if not better than Hillis.
Bernie19Kosar - February 12, 2012
No way. Ogbonnaya was way better than Hardesty this year.
Brownie's Year - February 12, 2012
OMGBanana?
macdowellm03 - February 13, 2012
Absurd. You take this too far. I definitely agree with you that the marginal value of RBs between average and elite is not as large as for other positions — eg QB, DE, DT, CB, LT, etc — but this is just false. Any RB does not give you 90 percent of what AP gives you or even what a Matt Forte or Ray Rice give you.
TheDriveStillHurts - February 13, 2012
In 2010, 90% of what Adrian Peterson gave was 1,000 yards rushing, 300 yards receiving and 12 TD’s.
Pretty much what BenJarvus Green-Ellis gave the Pats last season or Cedric Benson gave the Bengals, and those dudes are the definition of “Just another guy”.
RB’s are a waste of money. Just replace and go.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
Until you consider that every WC offensive coordinator salivates over Roger Craig videos. That is why I think the Browns might trade down and take Richardson. Honestly, he’s twice the overall talent that Peterson was coming out of Oklahoma. He has tremendous speed. He’s violently strong. He has above average ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. He’s a great blocker. Beast mode type of RB.
Just saying, the option to trade out of 4 and still take Richardson makes a lot of sense. And we still don’t know what we do with free agency. Or we take RG3 at 4 if he’s still there.
gentryholdem - February 13, 2012
No he isn’t. He wasn’t even the best RB on his team two years ago.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
THIS THIS THIS!!! He is nowhere near the level. He is the best prospect since AP, but that’s because dmc was overrated, and moreno might have been the next highest guy drafted at 11.
bross09 - February 14, 2012
DMC is as talented as advertised. His issue is injuries.
Jon @ DBN - February 14, 2012
I agree 100% with this.
McFadden was the best RB I have seen since Eric Dickerson. Yes, that includes AP.
Bernie19Kosar - February 14, 2012
totally agreed. that guy is insane talented. he was arguably the best offensive player in the afc through about 5 weeks in 2011.
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
I think he is pretty talented, he just never screamed “top 5 pick to me” when he came out.
bross09 - February 14, 2012
That would depend on your draft philosophy. The Davis led Raiders for example, loved drafting speed. Most of us here don’t think any RB would scream “top 5 pick.”
Jon @ DBN - February 14, 2012
bross09 - February 14, 2012
You all know my philosophy when it comes to RB’s.
If I had to use a first round pick on any RB since 1990, it would no doubt be Darren McFadden. I have never seen a team just rely on a guy to make play after play like Arkansas did with him.
Look at these three games when he was a Junior. South Carolina. Alabama. And the best in my opinion, LSU.
He single-handily made Arkansas a dangerous team. Remember, he was injured against USC in ’06 and Arkansas got blasted 50-14.
He came back and that team won 10 games. He was unreal.
Bernie19Kosar - February 14, 2012
Barry Sanders doesn’t like your 1990 cut off.
Jon @ DBN - February 14, 2012
That wasn’t an accident.
Bernie19Kosar - February 14, 2012
Wow. I would take Sanders over DMC a million times over.
rufio - February 15, 2012
this is an unbelievably overstated case for richardson. i’ll only be ok w/ the browns taking richardson in the second round. stay away from him — and all rb’s — in the first.
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Preach on! Soon we will convert the non-believers! Come! Be saved!
Bernie19Kosar - February 14, 2012
Praise Be to 73!!
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
heare hierre
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Spoiler alert: injury + 3.0 ypc
Jon @ DBN - February 11, 2012
Boo.
Bernie19Kosar - February 12, 2012
What the HELL do you mean were not winning the Superbowl next year?
ctowndawgpound - February 11, 2012
I stopped reading after that.
tr1betime - February 11, 2012
so you read every single post up to the one you responded to?
pwndabear - February 11, 2012
Gotta be you.
The New Kardiac Kids - February 12, 2012
Let’s just keep trading down until we own the entire 7th round. We’re sure to find some starters there!
TheDriveStillHurts - February 12, 2012
Awesome. The first ever all-diamond offense.
JustBob - February 12, 2012
TOM BRADEE WAS A 6 ROUDNER!!!!!!1
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
Josh Norris, a draft guy who writes some stuff for Rotoworld, just tweeted this:
Emphasis mine. I think that’s spot on.
nickjs21 - February 12, 2012
rec.
Adrock2099 - February 12, 2012
Just posted on PD:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/recipe_for_nfl_success_find_a.html
HenryDawg - February 12, 2012
Ok, we take RG3 at 4. And don’t give up 2 more quality starters in exchange.
gentryholdem - February 13, 2012
This.
Kaner - February 12, 2012
???
pwndabear - February 13, 2012
!!!
notthatnoise - February 13, 2012
…
Dawg Nuts - February 13, 2012
;;;
Adrock2099 - February 13, 2012
¿¿¿
pwndabear - February 14, 2012
That.
Bernie19Kosar - February 13, 2012
Them.
Adrock2099 - February 13, 2012
Exactly.
Kaner - February 13, 2012
take RGIII. end of transmission.
DontCallMeJoey - February 14, 2012
I’ll be the first to say I wasn’t high on RG3 at the beginning, but boy do I want him now. Everything I read about him makes me think he’ll be an instant playmaker in the NFL and would bring an excitement to the Browns that hasn’t been there in years. Trade up, do whatever it takes to get him, because I think he’s the real deal.
tr1betime - February 15, 2012
His stats and vids should have convinced you a long time ago.
Brownie's Year - February 15, 2012
I appreciate all the passion for a winner in Cleveland. QB? My personal humble opinion is that it would be much much much better to put more focus on serious upgrade on the WORST performance positions. We need to sign at least 2 or 3 high quality FA’s, my choices – Meachum WR, Davis TE, and any available defensive need. Don’t neglect the offensive line in the draft. In the second round draft Zeitler OG, and even if H & H plan to move Pinkston to ROT take the best OT available with one of the 4th round choices. If you plug UFA’s in the offensive line – you may strike gold, but NOT if you use 2 or 3 of them. Give ANY QB time and protection. McCoy, Wallace, new competition, ect. Have an offensive line that can kick butt and drive the ball down the field, getting 3rd and 4th down conversions, ball control, and not settling for field goals, with greater red zone effeciency. 1st pick, trade down and take best player for need. 2nd pick McCaron SS at 22. 3rd pick Zietler, and if getting a 2nd round pick up from trading down, OLB and there are some decent ones. You gotta get Meachum first in FA though.
DrewBuck - February 15, 2012
QB is one of the worst performance positions. Our BPA for need is RGIII.
Aussie Brown - February 16, 2012
well thank you for that.
you mean quarterback?
bross09 - February 16, 2012
Like Bross mentions above, QB was pretty ‘meh’ last season. Even if you do believe that Colt wasn’t the worst, you are overlooking a key fact.
A team can win with poor performances from a RT, RG, TE, DE, FS, etc.
A team can’t win with poor performance from a QB.
Bernie19Kosar - February 16, 2012
I don’t know if I agree about poor performance from RG/RT. They are generally easier positions to fill than LT so there is a wider set of players for those spots, but if they’re getting blown up every other play like they were for parts of last year its pretty tough to execute. That said, watching RG3 play, his line was sometimes non-existent and he handled the pressure great, either by stepping up, running, or standing in and taking a blow right after releasing the ball. He’ll make whoever is playing over there look better.
HenryDawg - February 16, 2012
Yet another overly-specific plan that involves many different moves, few of which are likely to happen. Wouldn’t it be easier to address our one area of extreme need, which also happens to be the most important position in the sport?
I’ve never heard anyone say “boy, if only Peyton Manning had some more weapons around him, he’d really be something.” All I’ve heard is “those Colts WRs have really turned into something under Peyton Manning.”
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but I’m just flabbergasted by how many people want to continue making excuses for the fact that our QB position is a nightmare. Colt has had long enough to take the starting QB job and run with it, and he hasn’t done it. This isn’t the early years, where the organization gave Tim Couch 2 scarecrows and some tackling dummies for protection. We have an OL that some of the teams who were in the playoffs this year would love to have, and our WRs would look much better if the ball was getting to them when/how it needs to in the NFL.
We need a QB, plain and simple. A 20-step plan involving every other position on the field won’t fix that.
Dawg Nuts - February 16, 2012
“Nah, guys, we don’t need RG3. ALL we need to do is follow the next 14 steps I’m about to lay out to the letter, and then cross our fingers that something turns on for Colt. THAT’S IT.”
nickjs21 - February 16, 2012
Any OL is only going to be able to give just so much time and protection, especially if the QB doesn’t make the right pre-snap read and adjustments.
JustBob - February 15, 2012
Reply fail.
JustBob - February 15, 2012
i want RG3…and bad…and right now no matter how bad i hope that he falls to us at 4 id be ok with giving up 22 to move up…i know this team has many holes but QB is the most important position and …sorry but McCoy is not the answer.. im confident that if our FO likes Griffin he will be a brown…unless Schnieder pulls a Schnieder and gives up the farm…my dream senerio is the skins get Manning the phins get Flynn and Floyd makes it to us at 22
junkyard dawgz - February 15, 2012
I like it, still have to watch out for Seattle moving ahead of us. Also I would prefer Wright at 22 but otherwise heck yes. Also if those 2 teams sign FA QBs the Rams bargaining position weakens.
HenryDawg - February 16, 2012
yeah i agree that we have to be careful of those other teams making a move also..the browns are in PRIME position this year because we have an extra first and the rams would only drop two spots and still get either Kahil or Blackmon..hell with only dropping two spots they would still hold an extremely valuable pick for another trade down..the rams could make out like bandits and turn that 2 pick into 3 firsts and a second easilly..i know thats what id be thinking if i were a rams fan…..bottom line though if we can get Griffin for both firsts this year im all in ….but thats it..wouldnt give up anything else and instead take Blackmon at 4…if Blackmons gone also ..im looking to trade down
junkyard dawgz - February 16, 2012
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Browns refused to offer more than their 2nd rounder and next years 3rd rounder to move up two spots. I think the real question is how do they really view McCoy? It’s entirely possible they could decide to just surround him with weapons. Blackmon at 4 and Wright at 22 would send a resounding message, no? It would be impossible for McCoy to fail with a 3 WR combo of Blackmon, Wright, and Little? Plus Norwood. Then the featured TE. And what if Indianapolis makes Luck available?
The reality is that, in my opinion, we don’t trade away future starters to get one player after finishing the last two years with 4 wins. We continue to build talent. Especially considering the age of Pittsburgh and Baltimore.
If RGIII is available at 4 we take him. If not we do what’s best for the franchise.
gentryholdem - February 17, 2012
this is the wrongest statement i think i’ve ever heard.
you absolutely continue to build talent … especially at the most important position in the game. if you can move up to take a top-shelf talent at qb, obviously you do it. we have an entire free agency period and at least a half dozen other picks to acquire additional talent.
DontCallMeJoey - February 17, 2012
So you ARE in favor of trading up for the 2.
nickjs21 - February 18, 2012
You are overvaluing WR’s effect on QB’s. Even the greatest WR can’t be great with poor QB play.
Hate to be the broken record, but we finished with 4 wins because of our QB play.
Bernie19Kosar - February 18, 2012
and they won 5 games in 2010…
DontCallMeJoey - February 18, 2012
Well, then forget what I said. COLT = CHAMPIONSHIP BABY!!!!
Bernie19Kosar - February 18, 2012
completely agree with that statement joey…i hate to give up picks and would only do it for griffin…we as browns fans need something to be excited about…theres risks with every player and every pick..it would be so nice to have our stud QB to groom..theres no athlete at the QB positon like griffin in FA and there wont be anytime soon…GET RG3 and surround him with talent…. i just dont see McCoy ever being special..addaquit at best..even with Blackmon/wright/little trio..all i ever have been happy about mccoy is his ability and guts to tuck it in and pick up a first down RUNNING the ball..enough said IMO
junkyard dawgz - February 17, 2012
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