I've had it. I can't take it anymore. I would rather talk to Steeler fans. Ok, maybe not that far.
I can't take another "mock draft" with the Browns taking Trent Richardson. I'm thisclose to punching my monitor. So I am writing this so hopefully Todd McShay will have someone read this to him (I'm not totally sure he can actually read).
The Browns don't need Trent Richardson. The Browns don't need a big time running back period. Why? I'm glad you asked.
In 2001, 10 different RB's had 300 carries on the season. This season? Two. MJD and Micheal Turner. And it's nothing something sudden. Look at the year by year break down:
13 in '03, 9 in '04, 10 in '05, 10 in '06, 6 in '07, 5 in '08, 6 in '09 and 7 in '10
So why the drop to 2 this season? Because this is a copy cat league. Best offenses in the NFL this season? Saints, Packers and Patriots. What do they all have? RB committees. Specialized guys that are used in ways that best suits their talents. By the way, look at the RB's those teams have. Only one first rounder among them (Mark Ingram in NO) and you could make a case that he was the least valuable of all the Saints RB's.
The days of riding a RB to a title are gone. With all the rule changes in today's NFL, it's easier to take advantage of a defense through the air.
Reason Two: Building an offense around a RB is a dangerous gamble
No position in the NFL takes the beating a RB does. 20 carries and 20 blocks a game equals a lot of time in the tub. I think we all know the 30 year old rule for RB's. As soon as you draft a RB, the clock is already ticking.
So let's say you build an offense around an All-World RB. For instance, let's use Adrian Peterson. You ride AP to 4.8 YPC and use him as the War Hammer of the North. But he gets worn down and gets a high ankle sprain. Now you have an offense centered around Toby Gerhardt. You're screwed. I don't care if it is for 3 weeks, that is 3 weeks you aren't going to win. That is the danger of building your offense around the most demanding position in the game.
Now look at the Saints. Chris Ivory on PUP? No big deal. Mark Ingram gets turf toe and misses the final four games of the season? No big deal. Plug in Darren Sproles. Mix in a bit of Pierre Thomas. Average 39 points a game. Profit.
No matter how good a RB is, he is a rolled ankle away from spinning your team into a 3 game funk.
On the other hand, Quarterbacks are protected like no other. Can't hit them high. Can't hit them low. Can't even graze their head. Sure Quarterbacks still get hurt, but let's compare the list of injured RB's vs. QB's. (And I'm only mentioned guys that were starters)
RB's: Darren McFadden (almost too easy), Arian Foster, Mark Ingram, Fred Jackson, Matt Forte, DeMarco Murray, Jamaal Charles, Adrian Peterson, Peyton Hillis, Rashad Mendenhall, Joesph Addai, Knowshon Moreno, Ahmad Bradshaw, LeSean McCoy (end of the season), Jahvid Best, Ryan Williams and Ryan Grant.
QB's: Jay Cutler, Colt McCoy, Chad Henne, Matt Schuab, Peyton Manning, Jason Campbell, Mike Vick, Tony Romo, Kevin Kolb, Tavaris Jackson and Sam Bradford. (I would argue that only 4 of these guys would be considered good)
Look at the difference. It's almost two to one. Why put your eggs in a basket that in all likelihood is going to break at some point?
Reason Three: The passing game in the NFL is getting too easy
I touched on this earlier, but it's not a coincidence that NFL passing records are being crushed. The rules are just making it almost too easy for teams to rack up the passing yards.
WR's not being touched after 5 yards. Spot fouls for PI (Not new, but seems to be called much more now). The aforementioned QB roughing rules. Easier grounding rules for QB's. The "defenseless receiver" rules.
Passing offenses are waaaay ahead of defenses, and it doesn't look like it is going to change anytime soon. Out of all the teams in the playoffs, do you see any team that has a legit chance to win the Super Bowl that is a run first team? Baltimore? Sweet, all we need is a defense filled with 3 Hall of Fame defenders. That helps. (Plus, I guessing that their inability to pass will kill them once they face a good team, just like it did last season).
Over the past few years Pittsburgh has made the change to a pass first team. It's possible to do in this division. Baltimore wants to but Flacco sucks. Cincy is making the leap from run first to pass first behind Dalton-to-Green, and is showing no signs of slowing down. Look at Detroit. No running attack to speak of, yet throws the ball over the field. The movement is happening.
Your Dad's NFL of running to set up the pass is dead. You pass to set up the pass, and run a draw just to keep them honest. So why in a league like this would you use a first round pick on a RB?
I will bet you a sandwich that this season's Super Bowl winner won't have a 1,000 yard rusher. Get used to it, because it's going to be the norm.
Conclusion:
I haven't even gotten into my manifesto of late round RB's. I figure I have beaten that topic to death and will spare you all the ramblings of mad man. So, the next time you see someone mock Trent Richardson to the Browns, ask that person to answer any one of these questions.
We'll take the QB or WR and plug and play RB's. We'll be much better off for it.
6 recs | 342 comments
Excellent. Very well said.
Preaching to the choir on this one.
Simmsinns - January 7, 2012
Thank you for writing this. I am so tired of reading mock after mock of us taking him.
Adrock2099 - January 7, 2012
Nice work.
emily522 - January 7, 2012
Should have titled this one: “Devil’s Advocate: Drafting Richards…No Screw That Idea!”.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Hell there’s an idea for you: Write a DA piece on why we should draft Richardson. Not that I want us to, I just think it would be a good challenge to come up with feasible reasons.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
You know ESPN and Grossi will just link to that article and totally ignore this one, claiming Browns fans really want to draft Richardson.
rufio - January 7, 2012
JaMarcus 2.0
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Richardson would be a waste for what’s really need for the browns. Wr, Blackmon at 4 is a great pick. Why bother to have a running back battle, hillis will be a monster next year. He will have to fight for the contract that only Cleveland will be nice enough to offer him. Same as last 3 yr. 13 mill 3 mill gar. But make it a bonus for him, hey rush for 15 tds and get extra 5 mill a year. 2k+ yards a season an extra 5 mill a =year, rhinos like to eat and athletes feed off money.
Tdawg1946 - January 9, 2012
I already know you’d like to get lamichael James after the 3rd!
lightninmcqueen - January 7, 2012 via mobile
very well written, and well argued! I’m sold.
BG_Dom84 - January 7, 2012
well done sir…let’s hope they actually pick someone this time and stop trading down
'thedrive'ruinedmy9thbirthday - January 7, 2012 via Android app
I agree that WR and possibly QB are much greater needs for our Browns and I also agree with much of you analysis about the Running Back position, I have to say that if by some crazy circumstance the Rams take Blackmon and the Vikings trade their pick to Washington to take RG3 we would have to seriously consider taking Richardson. Jeffry and Flloyd are not top five talents, we could take Kalil but what our team really lacks is offensive playmakers. Richardson is definitely that and the only offensive playmaker left in the draft. And we could still split carriers with Richardson, Jackson, Obi and Montario in the back field.
That being said, if Blackmon and Richardson are on the board we have to take Blackmon. And if RG3 and TRich are on the board we need to trade down a little, get some picks and see if we can land Jeffrey or Floyd.
My dream top three would be Blackmon, Mike Adams and LaMichael James. He won’t fall to the third, but I think he’s a good value pick as an explosive offensive playmaker in the 2nd round.
BrownsFanRegina - January 7, 2012
I have to agree…At #4 you take the best player available and RGIII is not going to be what you think he is. Granted this is personal opinion but if we don’t get Luck or Blackmon, we have to take Richardson. You write this piece like a running back is just there to change it up every 5 plays. Yes, the Saints, Patriots, etc… don’t feature the running game but they also have All World QB’s and a great system and coaching staff. I am not fond of selecting a RB with the 4th pick either, but if he is the best playmaker available, we have no choice other than trading down and looking to grab someone else on our radar. I would pissed if we took RGIII at this pick as well. It is too high for a player that had a good season or 2. Tim Couch was great in college.
Granville74 - January 7, 2012
Uh, every good college player in the draft are usually coming off a good season or 2? So, I’m not sure why you would think that’s a reason not to take RG3. You said to take Blackmon, didn’t he only have a good couple seasons? Of course, it’s college. Most all of them usually on play a couple full seasons as starters.
RyanBr - January 7, 2012
Read Terry Pluto’s article on why the Browns shouldn’t take RG3. The main point made was that he’s a shotgun QB and the Browns almost never run it. It may take him a while to get used to being under center if he ever does get used to it. I’m all for taking him, but it is a legit strike against him for the Browns.
dawgtribe - January 7, 2012
I read that article and was very, very unconvinced. He read way too much into Holmgren’s comments on Tebow. RG3 is nothing like Tebow. As for a guy who is a “shotgun QB”, see Sam Bradford. Holmgren sure didn’t seem worried about him. As for Holmgren and running QBs, there is a guy named Steve Young that Terry Pluto should have heard of. He should compare RG3 to Steve Young. There are quite a few similarities — I know it’s hard for some people to compare white and black QBs though. It’s much easier to compare him to Vick, Cam or Jamarcus (depending now whether you want him or not). But RG3 is closer to Steve Young than those guys (of course, I am not saying that he will be as good as Steve Young, I am just using Young as a template).
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
Then you should have heard Phil Steele say RGlll was over-hyped and was only a 2nd round talent . Plus, H&H won’t draft a QB high, I’d bet on that.
OldTimeDawg - January 7, 2012
He was on ‘all bets are off’ 3 days ago.
OldTimeDawg - January 7, 2012
Few College QBs run a true “pro style”. sometimes the ones that do are guys like Kirk Cousins who aren’t elite talents anyways. If the Browns should pass on RG3 because of this, most of the teams in the NFL would…but they won’t.
I don’t hear people in Washington talking about “oh, RG3 isn’t a fit”. They don’t run a shotgun heavy offense.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Griffen is mega smart and athletic. Learning a drop back offense will not be a problem for him.
rdy - January 7, 2012 via iPhone app
It’s rare that I dislike Pluto, but he’s dead wrong on this one. RG3 might not work out, but it won’t be because of the shotgun thing.
rufio - January 7, 2012
Wasn’t McCoy and spread shotgun qb in college?
VanDums - January 10, 2012
Claiborne or trade down. No thanks to Richardson.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
How many fans and members of the media would freak out and blast the FO if they take Claiborne instead of an offensive player?
Offense may be the biggest need, but if he’s the highest guy on their board at that point then they’ve got to take him.
dawgtribe - January 7, 2012
Holmgren said something similar after the press conference was over.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
If they are worried about the fans freaking out and using that as a reason not to draft someone who they think is BPA then they shouldn’t have their jobs.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
This.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
so we should take a guy so the fans don’t freak out? Fans that freak out over us not taking Richardson are stupid.
And I have heard quite a few fans say we should build the D more anyways.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
How about fans that freak out because they do take him?
SBP - January 7, 2012
that’s honestly much more logical. just my opinion
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Fans freaked out when we took Joe Thomas over Quinn (and AP).
Fixed. Sad, but true.
Doc's Kid - January 7, 2012
Not me, I was thrilled to death. That’s honesty, not hindsight. I was sick to death of us never addressing OL high in the draft. It’s what ruined Tim Couch and set the organization back as far as it has been.
Dawg Nuts - January 7, 2012
Damn skippy………. Thanks for acknowledging that TC was worthy of being our QB. Wish the organization at the time thought better of him.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
I’ll jump on the pat myself on the back train. I was psyched when they took Thomas and Mack. I still feel like linemen are the closest you can get to a “sure thing” when you draft in the top 10. It always makes me happy because I know we’ll get our money’s worth.
BiggieBrown - January 8, 2012
I almost cried with joy.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
I freaked out when I heard we traded up for Quinn. Or rather later when I got home and found out what we spent on him. I was on my way to work when we picked him
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Still don’t understand the reasoning behind the Quinn pick. Was it a Homer thing??? I would have loved to have seen a real full 2008 draft. By not having one, that set us a few years back too.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
Yes.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 8, 2012
Beau Bell. That is all.
Dawg Nuts - January 8, 2012
Amen, This is the AFC NORTH, not the south ,east, or west – where it seems as defenses are mostly an afterthought. Winning the division will take a hard as nails defense, and a good offense. If the BPA on our draft board is a CB, DE, LB, or even a OL – then draft him. I’m not getting paid millions to run the team, and don’t the benefit of having scouts, and all the film I can ever want. I will have to go with H&H on this.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
I think I would rather have a ‘good’ defense (which includes DBs holding on to INTs) and an explosive offense. Even the best Ds will give up points, so we have to be able to score. I think that watching NO-DET last night illustrated how effective you can be with an average D and a lights out O. Outstanding D and anemic O will only get you so far, but not far enough.
JustBob - January 8, 2012
It got the Broncos to playoffs and beating the Steelers.
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
I think you missed my point because I don’t personally advocate going after just defense. I want offensive weapons. Look at what Cincy has done in the last 2 years. They grabbed a WR, TE, and QB and their offense improved a ton. You need offensive weapons to score points and it isn’t necessary to have a hard as nails D to compete in this division.
bross09 - January 8, 2012
Media will, I won’t.
rufio - January 7, 2012
I like the Claiborne pick
champion64 - January 7, 2012
If that top three happens, we will sit back and laugh and watch someone trade up to take Kalil.
After Quarterbacks, LT is the most desirable position on offense. We could pick up a haul for Kalil.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Yup, and Kalil is the best LT prospect since Jake Long. He’s a beast of beasts. A mortal version of Joe Thomas.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
No, more like a demi god version. If Joe speaks his name, he will at least have a decent career.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
That’s what I was thinking.
OldTimeDawg - January 7, 2012
colt needs another year before his future gets decided and with an actual #1 receiver that other teams would use as their #1 receiver. Draft Blackmon and trade up to get Richardson. If the price is too high to draft up to get him, go and get James. Our offense will be sick after this draft if we do it right. Then maybe those piss yellow towels in Cleveland will become extinct
@dlance - January 7, 2012
Good God man, it’s like buying the gun the robber shoots you with. Horrible idea.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
I think he meant with the second #1. If it just cost a 4th round pick wouldn’t mind it.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
If we were to draft Richardson, I wouldn’t give it a thought to the second round. RB is not worthy of a first round pick.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
picks 20-32 of the first is OK for a top flight RB if you don’t think he’ll be around in the second but we’ll hopefully grab a receiver there.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
I think with a good passing game and a good O-line to open up holes, there’s no need to grab a RB early. Maybe if we found ourselves one day sitting with a team that had quality starters at every other position already, then an early draft on a RB would be cool, but after all that I’ve read on DBN, I just don’t see how it would work for the Browns right now.
JustBob - January 8, 2012
If they were giving Colt another year it would have been announced
champion64 - January 7, 2012
Disagree, it makes other teams guess what we are doing.
SBP - January 7, 2012
If they announced their plans before the post season even ended they would be the worst FO in the NFL bar none.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
By making other teams guess, it just might amp up the amount of interest in either top QB, and maybe a WR is the top of the chart. What better way to make some other team move ahead of us and we land our WR. Or even offer us a good amount of picks/players for our pick and they get there QB. We want whats best for this team, and theres so many ways to get there.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my statement? I really can’t tell.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
It’s so true. It’s just… beautiful.
SpecialBrownie - January 7, 2012
Rec
rufio - January 7, 2012
I and the rest of the world minus mock drafters agree. Seriously are they dumb or just lazy? Whenever I go through mock drafts, as soon as I see Richardson at 4 I stop right there and move on to looking at the next mock draft. Slightly OT but is there going be an official dbn members draft this year? The team I drafted for took one player I had then taking and the others position was correct.
macdowellm03 - January 7, 2012 via Android app
I think it’s easy to see Hillis supposedly on his way out and say “Browns need a RB! Put him there!”
This early in the process you see some really poor mocks, because mostly people are guessing at what team needs are. Very rarely do they include the part of us having a GM that has never taken a RB in the first round, or a FO that is more passing oriented.
After awhile you will see McShay say on ESPN that “The Browns seem to be shying away from Richardson”, the fact is we were probably never “interested” in Richardson. I’m sure the Browns will check him out, after all we do want to keep up appearances that we “like” him just in case someone wants to Julio us again this year.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
this is so true.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
The fastest track for Cleveland to rebuild would be if we got JULIO’D every year!
ctowndawgpound - January 7, 2012
Thats true.
J. W. - January 8, 2012
How’d I know it was gonna be you writing this :)
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Any team who grabs a RB in the first are stupid.
Brownie's Year - January 7, 2012
wouldn’t mind him with our second #1. Lets hope ATL loses this weekend, we’ll get a pick in the lower 20s.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
eh, I have expressed her my love for anything Chris Polk, and he can be had with our next pick most likely (unless he has an amazing combine).
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Unless you are the Browns in 1957.
macdowellm03 - January 7, 2012 via Android app
But if you’re the Browns in 1962 :(
Adrock2099 - January 7, 2012
I don’t know, if we were a team like Green Bay it might not be terribly stupid, but we’d be picking 30th+.
rufio - January 7, 2012
I still would take Adrian Peterson in the first round any year.
Grockcubs - January 9, 2012
Joe Thomas disagrees.
North Coast Flea - January 9, 2012
Why? What have the Vikings accomplished with him? Nothing. Their best run was when Favre had a career year and they were loaded. Now look at the Vikings, millions of dollars tied up in a fading star who will be challenged to come back from major surgery.
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
Just my take. If a back is taken in the first round, AP qualifies. This is a rare case. I am not a fan of taking a RB in the 1st, but he would be an exception. And yes I am glad the Browns drafted Joe Thomas.
Grockcubs - January 9, 2012
I didn’t need to read after the jump and I already knew I’d be rec’ing this. Last year Ingram almost slipped out of the first round. Even if Richardson is better than him, how much of that is because of his OL and going against college defenses? Unless he is the next AP or something, I wouldn’t even consider him with the ATL pick. Even then, I would probably be against it. RB is nowhere near our biggest hole. Get a WR, LB, and RDE in those first few rounds.
Doc's Kid - January 7, 2012
I’d take Richardson with our second round pick.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
I would too, hypothetically, but that particular RB is probably gonna be long gone. I would even pick him with our second first rounder, i’m sure a case for his talent level could be made there. Definitely not at 4 overall though and not any other back in the the first 2 rounds. I’m going to remain of the opinion that we need to be able to stop the run as much as we need defensive improvement.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 7, 2012
*sorry, offensive improvement.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 7, 2012
Just glad someone finally said it out loud. RB is the last thing we need to do at any pick in the first two rounds.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 7, 2012
I completely agree too. I said in another thread, and probably on Mock The Draft, that I am sick of seeing mocks saying we will take Richardson with #4. If both Blackmon and RGIII are gone by #4, I would rather we trade down. And I hate trading down. In fact i think we have enough holes that we shouldn’t draft a running back before the 4th or 5th round.
I know this has all already been said, but I hate taking this guy @4 so much, it bears saying again.
Aussie Brown - January 7, 2012
I totally agree. This is the year I want to see us stay in the top 5, but trade down if the other option is taking Richardson at 4.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
I have seen a few things that are saying Richardson stays in school. I dont see why he would but would love for him to just so we dont draft him.
MDBrownie - January 7, 2012
I think we’re safe whether he stays in school or not. I’m also probably the only guy holding out hope for resigning Hillis, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
JustBob - January 7, 2012
I’m with you on Hillis.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Same here.
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
Same here.
BiggieBrown - January 8, 2012
Same here.
Legoman0721 - January 9, 2012 via Android app
What would be the difference in contracts between Richardson (assuming the pick at 4) and Hillis?
Spidey - January 7, 2012 via mobile
Even with the rookie cap my guess is Richardson makes more.
notthatnoise - January 7, 2012
Last years fourth pick, AJ Green, signed a 4 year 19.6 million dollar deal.
I would hope we don’t give Hillis that kind of contract. Ahmad Bradshaw (a better back IMO) signed a 4 year, 18 million dollar deal last off-season.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
I would give Hillis near that money. That’s not terrible. You can find a better deal but it wouldn’t be grand theft salary.
rufio - January 7, 2012
Better be a lot of bonuses in that deal. The guy just can’t stay healthy.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
I think I would still rather find a replacement for Hardesty and keep Hillis. I know we had O-line issues that had to have impacted Hardesty’s play, but he still was a bit disappointing and seems to me even more injury prone.
JustBob - January 8, 2012
We haven’t seen what Hardesty can do yet. An ACL injury takes two full seasons.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
We’ve seen that he can’t stay healthy.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Mah, it’s 5 million a year under a graowing cap that we will need to spend 90%+ of. I’m not that worried.
rufio - January 8, 2012
LMAO, just started drinking my coffee this morning and popped open the laptop for my morning DBN fix and saw this and had to chuckle. I don’t think there’s any way we’ll be taking Richardson. I’ve already started seeing the mocks come to their senses – not many have us taking him now. I’ve also noticed he’s started moving down on the boards I’ve seen.
I will say though, I don’t really give a damn about the BCS title game, but I’m probably going to have to watch it.
I haven’t seen much of him and I’m curious to see what he looks like against the LSU defense.
burntorangeandbrown - January 7, 2012
interesting article on the BCS especially for those who don’t like the BCS.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Interesting article – thanks for the link (and no, I don’t have a high opinion of the BCS in general).
burntorangeandbrown - January 7, 2012
I figured you didn’t. I liked the article too, very clever. Call me pretentious, but I always enjoy NPR and the New Yorker when I read their articles (and the ones I read are generally not political either!)
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Deford does a great job of tearing down and exposing the BCS for what it is with his analogies. I’ve always been a fan of NPR – mostly the radio shows though. Haven’t read their site much but I think I’m going to have to bookmark it. Glad you posted that link.
burntorangeandbrown - January 7, 2012
no problem. I actually got it from a friend, myself.
I do like NPR radio shows, but I generally listen to sports when I am in the car.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
BPA
so if Richardson turns out to be a top 3 back in the league that he is not worth #4??? The browns need playmakers on offense period and if Blackmon, and RG3 are gone then you have to pick Richardson, cause aint nobody gonna trade up to get him like last year wit julio jones. you may not want Richardson but Hillis is a free agent, and there is a need @ RB, Hardesty cant stay healthy. but i would hope that Blackmon is there @ 4 and take him but Richardson is not a bad consolation prize.
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
If the draft shakes out that Blackmon is gone, there is still quite a bit of talent available to attract a team to trade up. And if RGIII is still on the board, that might classify as the most intense 5 minutes in Cleveland NFL Draft history.
Spidey - January 7, 2012 via mobile
Sure, but you can’t guarantee it. In fact, I would consider it a longshot that he would ever be a top 3 RB. Look at the first round RB’s taken in the past 10 seasons. How many of those guys do you think are “worth it”? LT, Steven Jackson, Larry Johnson, AP and CJ1K?
We’re talking five guys out of 31 in the past 10 seasons. The return isn’t there. Plus I could name 15 RB’s that are in the same class of those guys that were taken outside of the first round.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
its about getting value
so you would rather take a less talented player at #4 cause u think a receiver is worth more than a 1,200 yard rusher wit 8-10 touchdowns and can catch out the backfield like Ray Rice?? if he produce like Rice it would be worth that pick. especially if Blackmon and RG3 is gone @ 4. would u not say that the Browns could use a upgrade at RB? I am saying everybody is acting like Richardson is not better than the browns other options if especially if blackmon is gone, you gonna take Jeffery or Floyd over Richardson?
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
RB doesn’t have enough value in today’s pass driven league to warrant a #4 pick unless he’s the next Barry Sanders or Jim Brown, and even then, how many games has Minny won with one of the NFL’s best backs?
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
The browns need playmakers
And Richardson is a playmaker and is way better than Mark ingram, he is explosive avg. over 6 yard per carry can make plays in the passing game and got big play speed 4.3-4.4 and runs with power and u will pass that up when the offense is anemic
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
He doesn’t have that kind of speed, and if he was so much better than Ingram, why did Ingram start over him? I realize that could be a tad shortsighted, but I think it shouldn’t be over looked.
I think Richardson is an okay RB. I don’t think he does anything great, but does everything well. I like his vision and his toughness, but I don’t think he will make anyone forget Jim Brown.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
I actually think he will run in the 4.3s at least at his pro day.
rufio - January 7, 2012
you not thinking
Trent. Is the real deal we play in the Acct north its cold snowy and u ha e very good defences! U have to have a running game, and. You would give up on colt? Anyone who says the Browns need a quarteback is an idiot, and hasn’t. Watched a single game!! Colt has hit recievers in the hands chest shoulder pads helmet I can go on and on u can blame the quarterback when the recievers cant catch and cant get open! We have our franchise QB we need a legitimate RB who can catch out the backfield and run between the tackles! Remember this we play in the AFC North. The toughest division in football! We need Trent, then the best availbe reciever and. Then a left tackle. Mike Adams comes to mind! And I think the Browns should look for a big reciever a guy like Nelson Rosario. From Ucla comes to mind! I would draft him I’m the later rounds and then bring in a veteran like TO WE could get him for a steal or even bring back braylon Edwards! Do ur research before you make comments! Influx teams do runningback
Cbroldschool - January 8, 2012
nfl teams
Influx teams use runningback by committee. Cu, there r no 20 carry franchise. Backs so if u get a chance to draft one u don’t pick a QB when you already have one who is accurate smart tough got heart and is a winner like colt. How many times are we gone give up on a guy and start all over again? How many heisman trophy winners are starters in the nfl right now? Only 1 come to mind. Charles Woodson and he don’t even play offence! Cleveland you need to wake up it’s. Time our time to shine but holmgren is going to have to have some balls and draft Trent. He won’t. Be sorry! Neither will I! WE HAVE OUR QB WE NEED A RB A WR A OLT A ILB AND A S IN THAT ORDER AND THEN GET ROSARIO. FROM UCLA 6-6 220 OH YEAH ILL TAKE IT BIG TARGET FOR COLT AND GUESS WHAT HE CAN CATCH! ONE LAST THING THE HIESMAN TROPHY IS GIVEN TO THE BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY THAT YEAR! WE TALKING ABOUT THE BEST PROZ! DUH ITS A NO BRAINER!
Cbroldschool - January 8, 2012
Well, u have convinced me.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
Was it the part about needing a left tackle that did it?
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
Nope, the part where he said he wanted Braylon Edwards back.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
I’ve been such a sucker, wasting my time typing out the words “you” and “your” all these years. Those are milliseconds of my life I’ll never get back.
Dawg Nuts - January 8, 2012
Duh
No ONE WILL EVER FORGET JIM BROWN DUMMY! WHEN U GET A CHANCE TO DRAFT A STUD LIKE TRENT WHO PLAYS IN THE SEC AGAINST THE BEST DEFENCES IN THE COUNTRY AGAINST GUYS WHO ARE GOING TO PLAY ON SUNDAY AND. LIGHTS THEM UP U DON’T PASS ON HIM AND PICK A QB WHEN U GOT ONE! AND THE 40 TOMES MEAN NOTHING YHEY HAVE TRACK SHOES ON TIGHTS MEANS. NOTHING YOU PLAY FOOTBAL IN PADS AND QUICKNESS CUT ABILITY VISION AND LATERAL SPEED IN PADS ARE GREATER FACTORS IN DETERMINING A RB WORTH AND ESP. TOUGHNESS AND THE INTANGIBLES LIKE WORK ETHIC! GO BROWNS GET TRENT WE WONT BE SORRY! WE NEED TO DO THE BROWNS NOT MONKEY C MONKEY DO LIKE ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE NFL WE NEED TO FIND OUR OWN IDENTITY AND BE THE BROWNS!
Cbroldschool - January 8, 2012
Consider this a response to all three of your
rantsposts. I don’t car how good of a RB he is, he will not succeed against those AFCN run defense you mentioned unless we have an outstanding O-line and a credible deep threat to keep those Ds from putting 8 in the box on every play.JustBob - January 8, 2012
Greatest 3 posts EVAR!
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
I’m not sure what just happened.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
SING IT, BROTHER!!
burntorangeandbrown - January 8, 2012
Because that has worked so well for the past 12 seasons. Settle down Paul Brown. Why don’t we just run run the Wing T offense? After all, that’s what we were doing when we won championships.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
AND THE 40 TOMES MEAN NOTHING YHEY HAVE TRACK SHOES ON TIGHTS MEANS
I’m sorry I missed this the other day. Now I wish I hadn’t committed to my sig for 2 years. HAHA.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 10, 2012
CAPSLOCK – Cruise control for cool.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
One question, do you like fullbacks? We could use some new comic relief around here. You’re my new favorite member.
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
Well played, Golan. Rec.
Dawg Nuts - January 8, 2012
Oh! Now I get it! It was schtick. Hominah hominah hominah!
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Richardson is not the guy who is gonna run under a 4.4. Heck, if he has a bad day at the combine I can definitely see him running over a 4.5.
The Browns need playmakers, but RBs are not that vital piece anymore and you don’t have to get him in the first.
If you want explosive play and a great combo of speed and power, seriously check out Chris Polk. I think he has better breakaway speed than Richardson and hits the hole a little quicker…plus he is the same size.
Instead of looking at the stats, watch the tape of the two and they are similar, but you would be hard pressed to find huge advantages Richardson has that don’t have to do with his amazing blocking.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Please type the word “you.”
rufio - January 7, 2012
You hit the topic in the subject line (which we don’t use here BTW).
It’s about value. Why use a top five pick on a position that is easily filled, and is plagued by injuries? The better value would be to attack one of the higher impact positions, and fill in the RB later on. Do you think Richardson is 95 picks better than David Wilson? Because I don’t.
Would you rather have RG3, Ingram, OLB and David Wilson or Richardson, Tannehill, OLB and Jeff Fuller? Because to me it is no contest.
Sure, just not in the first round. RB’s are a dime a dozen, even the so-called “great ones”. Ask Buffalo.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Fred Jackson>CJ Spiller (sorry emily)
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Greatest. Of. All. Time.
No RB is gonna make you forget about Jim Brown, cause he is the GOAT @ RB. ok what other player are you gonna pick @ 4 if RG3 and Blackmon is gone???
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
Trade down.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
????
If trading down is not a option, or nobody want to trad down what other palyer are you gonna pick @ 4 ? 1. Luck 2. Blackmon 3. RG3. and you are on the clock??
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
Claiborne all day long. It wouldn’t be hard to find someone who wanted to leapfrog someone else for Kalil though.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Again, bypassing the silly notion that Kalil lasts to pick four, I would take Kalil.
Doesn’t fit a need per se, but he would make the running game better, the passing game better and would give us a fill in when ever Joe Thomas decides to go to Canton.
But again, this will not happen.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
And as you said above, there are plenty of teams just a few picks back from us who would trade up a couple spots to take Kalil — he is that good. Second best pure talent player in this draft.
Also, if we don’t take Kalil, we can still draft defense — we are not precluded from improving our defense if the best player available is not on the offense.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
I wouldn’t mind having Haden on one side and Claiborne on the other. Then Brown could move back to safety next Ward.
JDfromCLE - January 7, 2012
trading down is only not an option in the hypothetical you proposed below? which he did answer.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
trade?
ok what teams you feel would be a willing trade partner to trade for kalil? and what kinda picks do u think u will get?? you are hoping someone willing to trade down?
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
Buffalo. If they can give up their 1st and maybe a 2nd and re-arrange some later round picks, I think they do it for a franchise LT.
Arizona is also definitely an option. They will want to protect Kolb who just got massacred back there.
I think you are underestimating the value of a franchise LT.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Any team that doesn’t have a LT. Also, we don’t use subject lines here on DBN.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Please stop using the subject line.
rufio - January 7, 2012
Technically GOAT @ FB
macdowellm03 - January 7, 2012 via Android app
thanks for helping the argument against a RB. Rice was a 2nd rounder. You don’t have to spend a 1st rounder on a RB for him to be that guy. Heck, second round might actually get you just as many feature backs with less overall risk.
Clinton Portis, Brian Westbrook, Julius Jones, Frank Gore, mjd, matt forte, ray rice, jamaal charles, lesean mccoy, shonn greene, ben tate. All of these guys have been feature backs/are feature backs and most of them have been really good. All 2nd/3rd rounders. If you notice too, the trend has really picked up in recent years.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Don’t mention Julius Jones. That doesn’t help our case.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
I just felt like throwing that one in there. He was good for a couple years, but yeah not on these guys’ level.
Still, the case is so strong imo, its not in danger of hurting anything majorly.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
I’d argue that taking Larry Johnson in the 1st is no more “worth it” than taking KWII was. Johnson had a couple of amazing seasons, but because he got a ton of touches as the feature back (750+ rushes and 70+ receptions in 2 seasons), he did jack shit outside of it.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
If Blackmon and RG3 are both gone, assuming Luck is the other player picked, That leaves Kalil back on the board. Someone will trade up for a franchise LT. I’d rather not take a pick that’s going to be on the decline by the end of his first contract @ #4. Claiborne or trade down.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Trade up for LT
Let’s be realistic when was the last time somebody traded up the draft in the top 10 for a LT??? and the Browns need offensive playmakers if you cant score you cant win. and if you cant give your defense a rest by running the football u wont win.in fact the Packers would not have won the super bowl if they did not run the ball in the playoffs last season
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
Well it’s a different draft. First of all, there hasn’t been a LT with Kalil’s stock in the draft since Jake Long. The real good one’s don’t go far.
Plus, with the lack of huge contracts, teams are now more willing to move up in the draft.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
i would not put a lot of faith in waiting on a team to trade for LT
I am saying you have to take the best player availabe with the 4th pick. If you have to make a pick and can not trade down, and provided Blackmon and RG3 is gone then Trent Richardson is the best pick at that spot. cause the browns need playmakers. a strong running game will help Mccoy be a better QB.
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
Well, I think you are worrying about nothing, because Kalil will go before the #4, unless he has something really whacky happen medically.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
You just jinxed the whole thing.
JDfromCLE - January 7, 2012
Generally the teams picking as high as we do don’t have a franchise tackle or a franchise qb so trading up for one of those is a bit hard. We have Joe Thomas. We can afford to not pick Kalil and trade down if we don’t like our options. You want to talk about realistic? Only 6/12 teams in the playoffs this year have a 1000 yard rusher: Ravens, Bengals, Texans, Broncos, Falcons, and 49ers. Of those teams I really only think the Ravens and the 49ers have a shot. The Ravens probably won’t make it past the Conf finals (their QB is mediocre), and the Niners will have to get past GB. RB just isn’t valuable like it used to be even as close as 10 years ago.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
I put more faith in a team wanting Kalil than I do Richardson turning into an All-Pro.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
A franchise LT is more important than a franchise RB. If you don’t think so then you don’t know much about football in the 21st century. In you scenario, the BPA on offense would be Kalil, not Richardson.
Also, the reason why you never see teams trading up for one is that they don’t have the opportunity to. They’re so important that teams in position to take them don’t consider trading down. I don’t even want to think about a Browns team without Thomas on it. Drafting Kalil wouldn’t be such a bad idea though because we could plug him into the right side. Yeah, that would be sort of a “wasted pick” for the RT position that doesn’t require such a high pick, but that’s insurance for the worst possible scenario. I don’t even want to speak it…
Brownsbacker488 - January 8, 2012
Yep. I think this could dramatically change the dynamics of the draft this year and going forward.
I also think it makes it that much more likely we’ll see several teams making a play to move up for RG3 (and possibly even for Blackmon as well).
burntorangeandbrown - January 7, 2012
If another team wants RG3, I think they will “set the price” that the Browns have to beat.
No one in this draft has the amount of ammo we do. If someone wants to make a move, the Browns will get the call. The decision is whether or not we want to pay the price.
I think Minnesota or St. Louis would be smart to see what they can get, but in the end only drop to four and still get an impact player.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
in good position
The Browns are really in a position to stay @ 4 and still get a offensive playmaker. it would not make sense for the Browns to get into a bidding war for RG3 when most likely the team will have to trade with the Rams and Minny will take kalil and the Browns will end up with Blackmon
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
If Kalil and RGIII are both on the board, the team that’s trading up will be aiming for RGIII. Anyway, I don’t think this will be a problem as I think the top three will be A QB(who depends on who’s stock rises/falls at the combine), Kalil, and Blackmon. I think Kalil goes to St.Louis and Blackmon goes to Minny but thaty could go the other way. That leaves the other QB for us and then we don’t have to worry about wasting a T5 pick on a RB.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
deal or no deal?
Minny will not take Blackmon if Kalil is gone they will look to trade back or draft Claiborne. If the Redskins offer you 2012 1st and 2012 4th and 2013 1st to move up to take RG3 do you take that deal? if 1. Luck 2.Blackmon 3. Kalil is the order
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
Deal, but that’s an insane price that I wouldn’t even see the Redskins offering.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
the need a QB
who do u pick up with the 6th pick you get from Washington?? Tampa bay will probably take Claiborne.
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
BPA who isn’t a RB or MLB. I don’t really know the top prospects past the top5 or so.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Thank you. No one is going to offer two first rounds to move up two spots.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
You don’t think Minny would draft a new weapon for their 1st round investment?
The trade proposal all depends on if HnH think RGIII is the guy or not. If they don’t that is a Herschal Walker-esque haul. If they think he’s a guy they pick him no matter the offer.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
A potential All Pro Left Tackle is a new weapon. Period.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
It’s hard to read into his writing, but I think he was saying that if St. Louis takes Kalil (very likely, they could go either way), That Minny wouldn’t take Blackmon. I personally disagree and think they will invest for Ponder before worrying about their D.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
OK, I understand. If I had to guess, I say St Louis takes Kalil. They’ve whiffed a lot on offensive line early in the draft, but that’s not a reason not to take a talent like Kalil — just like whiffing on a bunch of WRs was not a reason for Detroit not to take Calvin Johnson. St Louis could then move Saffold over to RT, where he is probably going to be a more natural fit and then trade that other guy who flopped for a late round draft pick.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
Yeah Jason Smith had a nasty neck injury at the end of this season.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Minny is desperate for a LT to protect Ponder, they got AP and Percy Harvin and if kalil is gone they will probably go with coner there 2nd biggest need. I think the skins will probably jump ahead of the Browns if they want RG3 maybe offer that kinda deal to the Rams 2012 1st, 2nd and 2013 1st and 4th to move up do u think the Browns will make a offer if they think RG3 is their guy??
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
A case could be made that giving Ponder a 2nd option to throw to would help just as much. Suddenly opposing Ds can’t divert all of their attention to shutting down Harvin and AP. having to concentrate a bit more on coverage the opposing D might not be able to put as mamy resources into rushing Ponder and he’ll have another reliable reciever to dump the ball to quickly when the heat does come.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
So many typos…
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Guessing right now, St. Louis goes Kalil and Minny goes Claiborne.
Minnesota’s secondary is a tire fire.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Also see: Rams offensive line.
burntorangeandbrown - January 7, 2012
exactly.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
I think the drop to 4 is almost as important as the extra 1. They can fall to 4 and be guaranteed Kalil, Blackmon, or Claiborne, any of them are needed by both Minny and STL. Hell, what’s to stop them from calling Cleveland and just saying Washington’s on the phone, want to beat them? Do you call their bluff?
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
Exactly. Thomas, Long, D’Brickashaw, Leonard Davis, Chris Samuels, all top 5 picks.
The thing is, they didn’t drop because teams in the top 5 that had the chance, desperately needed a franchise LT. There has not been a position where a team in the top 5 had one and another franchise LT came along. In that situation, the team would logically trade down.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
This just isn’t true. The Packers ran the ball with a RB 11 times in the Super Bowl in 55 plays. That is 20%.
This is a passing league.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
the playoff run
I am not talking about 1 game meaning the super bowl but the playoff run last season for the Packers. they commited to run the football in the las month of the season and playoffs. just ask john elway the importance of a RB and running game he aint win no super bowl until he had TD and Marino still waiting on his ring cause he aint have a RB.
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
that was a different game. I think you are stuck in the past where a starting RB mattered.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
I think you are missing the fact that this isn’t Elway’s or Marino’s NFL anymore.
This is a new game. That kind of thinking will have us picking in the top five again next season. We need to adapt. The rest of the NFL is.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
The only game the RB really helped the packers was against the Bears. They would have won every single one of those games no question if they had Hardesty as their feature back.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
And who was Green Bay’s back and when was he picked? Damn sure wasn’t in the top 5 and I’m pretty sure it was the guy we have on our roster right now.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Ok it wasn’t Jackson it was this guy. In the divisional round against the Falcons he had 25 carries for 66yds Let me reiterate that. 25 carries for 66 yards, 2.64 ypc.. Rodgers went 31/36 for 366 yds and 3 tds.
In the next game Rodgers had a down game throwing for two ints and no TDs but you gotta be kidding to say that Starks’ 22 carries for 77 yards won them that game.
I’ll give you that Starks putting up 123 yards on 23 carries helped them win the wildcard round, but Rodgers’ 3 touchdowns is what won them that game.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Use the Browns own history since 99 as an example of how times have changed. 2002 and 2007 were by and large our best years offensively in this time period.
99 – Pass Yards: 2612, Rush Yards: 1150, Record: 2-14
00 – Pass Yards: 2445, Rush Yards: 1085, Record: 3-13
01 – Pass Yards: 2801, Rush Yards: 1351, Record: 7-9
02 – Pass Yards: 3412, Rush Yards: 1615, Record: 9-7
03 – Pass Yards: 2834, Rush Yards: 1670, Record: 5-11
04 – Pass Yards: 2824, Rush Yards: 1657, Record: 4-12
05 – Pass Yards: 3047, Rush Yards: 1503, Record: 6-10
06 – Pass Yards: 2898, Rush Yards: 1335, Record: 4-12
07 – Pass Yards: 3726, Rush Yards: 1895, Record: 10-6
08 – Pass Yards: 2380, Rush Yards: 1605, Record: 4-12
09 – Pass Yards: 2076, Rush Yards: 2087, Record: 5-11
10 – Pass Yards: 2989, Rush Yards: 1646, Record: 5-11
11 – Pass Yards: 3090, Rush Yards: 1531, Record: 4-12
The years we had a 1,000+ yard RB:
05 – 1232, Rueben Droughns
07 – 1304, Jamal Lewis
08 – 1002, Jamal Lewis
10 – 1177, Peyton Hillis
My assessment: The most obvious season to consider is 09 when our running game was more productive than our passing game which is like a freak of nature in today’s NFL. It certainly didn’t work out for us as our record indicates. What I’d also like to point out are the years directly following our two most productive seasons. In 2003 and 2008 you see our rushing yards stay relatively the same, however our passing yards drop considerably which was certainly a key factor in dropping 4-6 games after those successful seasons. Now look at our 1,000+ RBs that we’ve had since 99. It’s happened 4 times, but only once did it help lead us to a winning record.
My conclusion: One single extraordinary RB isn’t going to put us over the top. Yes, it certainly helps. Our offense would have been a lot more productive if Hillis stayed healthy and repeated last seasons performance. It’s a good possibility Greg Little could have had over 1,000 yards receiving if Hillis didn’t get injured. So as the others have stated, it’s not worth it to invest such a high draft pick on a RB when we could find a better skill player at that position and should easily find someone just as talented later in the draft.
Brownsbacker488 - January 8, 2012
Good stuff.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
It’s stuff like this that make DBN awesome. People actually have facts and numbers to back their opinions up and post them for others to make their own judgment.
With the exception of last year, when we pass over 3000 yards, we had 3 out of the our 4 best records (9 wins, 6 wins, 10 wins). Passing wins games.
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
Passing also opens up the running game so you look at teams like NO and GB who can plug anyone in at RB and they’ll look good.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
Great set of stats there!
BinkDeBook - January 8, 2012
this was super scientific. Thanks for this.
bross09 - January 8, 2012
I’m guessing you touched yourself when you saw that.
Dawg Nuts - January 8, 2012
just a little bit.
bross09 - January 9, 2012
Really? Cmon man.
rufio - January 8, 2012
statistical…you’re right
bross09 - January 9, 2012
Great job.
Good Lord our offense was horrible in ’09.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
But they ran it with an UDFA RB from Buffalo U.
Not a #4 RB.
SpecialBrownie - January 7, 2012
btw, wasn’t I saying James Starks would be a nice value?
bross09 - January 7, 2012
I said it because he was MAC.
SpecialBrownie - January 7, 2012
You don’t seem to know any more about football than your everyday run-of-the-mill fan. Thats what I was before DBN. I’ve learned so many things on here is unreal. So you can comment all you want but when you are wrong you are wrong.
macdowellm03 - January 7, 2012 via Android app
I wouldn’t die if we took Kalil in that situation, but if we can trade down, get an extra 1 next year and an extra 2 this year, I would move down and take someone like Coples. He should also help our run D.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
when was the last time a RB carried his team to the playoffs? When was the last time a RB was integral to a deep playoff run. maybe AP a few years ago, but that playoff run took a career year out of Brett Favre.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
I did a fanpost on this dealing with the SB winners. Stud RBs are just not needed to win the super bowl.
BinkDeBook - January 8, 2012
I do remember that.
bross09 - January 8, 2012
both Blackmon and RG3 are gone
I am saying if both Blackmon and RG3 are gone and you are on the clock and you can not find a trade partner to trade down with? then what do u do?? you mean to tell me you are gonna draft Ashlon Jeffery or Floyd with the 4th pick?? I say no you Draft the best player available that will also fill a need. Trent Richardson may be on AP level and if he is then u are set @ RB for 6-8 years. you gotta find somebody willing to trade up and if u do find somebody you will probably only get another 3rd round pick this year and maybe some lower picks.
Highspeed30 - January 7, 2012
No way he is on AP level. No way. He’s like a little bit of a better Ingram. If they’re all gone you go with Claiborne.
SpecialBrownie - January 7, 2012
Someone will trade up for Kalil. If it wasn’t for Luck, I could see him as the number one pick. He is in the Joe Thomas (forgive me Father), Jake Long, echelon of draft eligible tackles. Remember, Tyron Smith was the best rookie OT this season. The reason he played RT at USC was because Kalil was better than him.
If Kalil gets to us, we sit back and take in a major haul from a LT-needy team (trust me, there are tons of them)
The best RB I have seen in college since AP was McFadden. He can’t stay on the field. It’s my point. RB is to dangerous to gamble on.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Claiborne all day long, move Brown over to FS. Two needs filled at once.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
I wouldn’t be opposed to that if we are in that position. We should not reach for an offensive player if the best defensive player is available.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
That would be OK, probably not the big impact we need for offense but then again, we don’t know what they’re going to do in FA.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
Thank you
JDfromCLE - January 7, 2012
It’s a passing league. Our pass rush is actually trending up the next couple years, and if you’ve got a secndary like that we could be among the league leaders in sacks.
pdxtribefan - January 7, 2012
It usually works better the other way. We had absolutely 0 pass rush from the right side this year, so adding that would make our secondary look even better.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
Chicken/Egg. Your CBs don’t have to cover as long when you have an awesome pass rush, and vice versa, your pass rush has longer to get there if your coverage is superb.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Coverage sacks are more rare than a QB who doesn’t have time to throw because he’s constantly being harassed. Most good teams/QBs can complete passes even with excellent coverage but they all turn to jelly if you’re sacking them. Look at what KC did to Rodgers or we did to Fat Ben a couple years ago.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
Pass rusher over cover guy of the same talent every single time. And its not even close.
rufio - January 8, 2012
Claiborne is better than any pass rusher in this draft.
Roger Dorn - January 9, 2012
I agree with you on that. If RG3 or Blackmon isn’t there, picking him at #4 would not hurt my feelings.
Kimble_79 - January 9, 2012
Yeah it would be a pretty sweet defensive backfield. You pretty much have that situation on lockdown for the decade as long as everyone stays healthy. The only problem I see is that you have 2 young first round picks who are going to be in contract negotiations within a short time of each other and that’s a lot of money to tie up in just your corners. Usually teams just have 1 shutdown to take away one side of the field or a superstar receiver, then rely on extra help for the weaker CB.
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
I should say teams would prefer to have a shutdown corner….
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
I have no problem with Sheldon at CB next season. I thought he was much better this season than he was last year.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
I don’t have too much of a problem with Brown at CB, though he’s getting older, I do have a problem with Young at FS. God help me I’d rather have Adams start than Young.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
I think all of our safeties outside of Ward are terrible, and Ward can’t stay healthy.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
I thought Adams really picked it up later in the year.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
He had the team lead in INTs, didn’t he?
JustBob - January 8, 2012
I think he did, I also read somewhere today that the Steelers scored their only TD on the one series he wasn’t in the game. That may not be the only reason but it seemed that’s when Antonio Brown had his most productive catches.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
The chances of us not finding a trading partner if those guys are gone is ludicrous. Its simple math:
there are 3 teams ahead of us. If Blackmon and RG3 are both gone, it means either Luck or Kalil is still on the table. It’s not likely going to be Luck, but if it is you run up to the podium. If it’s Kalil, you WILL find a trading partner. Kalil is an amazing LT. Like Bernie said, Tyron Smith was the best last year, drafted (I believe) 10th overall, Someone will want Kalil bad.
And if we can’t find a trading partner, Take Claiborne.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
Trent Richardson is not, and I repeat is not the 4th best player in this draft.
Brocolis154033 - January 7, 2012
^fact
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Agreed. He is not the 4th best at all.
BinkDeBook - January 8, 2012
ursuline86
Why is Bernie Kosar making derogatory comments about another NFL QB (Flacco). Don’t get me wrong, I hate the Ravens and I’ve been a lifelong Browns fan, even when Kosar was the QB and we let Denver cost us 2 Super Bowls…I don’t think Holgrem and Tom, along with Coach need Bernie Kosar, telling them who to draft this year. Blackmon seems like a good fit, but how does ANY team know who will actually become an NFL success. If Bernie is so smart, why haven’t the Browns offered him a front office job over the years? Again, I have nothing against Kosar and he is entitled to his opinion, but let’s not lose faith in the leadership of the Browns just yet. I do believe they are on their way to bringing the Browns franchise back to winning. We all have to trust they know what they’re doing. Besides, it’s not like Holgrem is new to this!
ursuline86 - January 7, 2012 via Android app
uh, you DO know that’s not the real Bernie, right? it’s just a screen name of someone that’s been a Browns fan as long as (likely longer then) me…
Mr. Bad Example - January 7, 2012
my first comment gone green from recs… you like me, you sniff really like me…
Mr. Bad Example - January 7, 2012
Oh jeez.
SpecialBrownie - January 7, 2012
perfect response.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
I just wish it had been a fanpost with a one option poll attached.
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
No one’s perfect. (save 73)
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
How dare you question the Mighty Bernie Kosar! I have half a notion to pound a sixer and side-arm a football through your front window!
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
That’s just a typical Wednesday for Bernie.
Adrock2099 - January 7, 2012
Comment of the year.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
Awesome
Brownie's Year - January 7, 2012
Just dont scramble Bernie, that is ugly
champion64 - January 7, 2012
Recs flying like footballs for this thread
pdxtribefan - January 7, 2012
Because Flacco is a joke.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
My head hurts.
Dawg Nuts - January 7, 2012
HAHA WOW! Great stuff, bud. That was classic!
Brownsbacker488 - January 8, 2012
I might take that bet, IF I can do the research in time and see how many of the 12 teams in the playoffs (PLAYOFFS?!? you kiddin’ me?) have 1000-yard rushers for this season… I could use a sandwich (I gotta start eating before wasting time on the internetz…)
Mr. Bad Example - January 7, 2012
All your sandwich are belong to Heckert.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
6/12: Ravens, Bengals, Texans, Broncos, Falcons, and 49ers. Out of those teams only 2 I think have a shot at making it and one will have to go through GB to do it.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
let’s not include the Bengals. That skews it in his favor when Benson really sucks.
bross09 - January 7, 2012
This isn’t part of the upthread RB conundrum.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
By YPC he is the worst of those listed at 3.9 on 274 att, the best is McGahee with 4.8on 249 att. Most att was Ray Rice with 343 to a ypc of 4.7.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
And the Texans have really just crept by since losing Schaub.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
Yesterday didn’t look like creeping.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
No, the Texans are really good. Yates is doing just fine as a game manager with a world class supporting cast. Their D is impressive as hell. Arian Foster and Andre Johnson are beasts.
burntorangeandbrown - January 8, 2012
The more I see how their OLB’s are playing, the more I am convinced that Mario could be pried from Houston.
I would gladly give up the Atlanta pick for Mario. I am assuming they will tag him.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
I think it would take more than that, but hell yeah I would give up the ATL pick for him.
rufio - January 8, 2012
Also, I would love to draft 5 people in the first two rounds who play in the front 7 and can rush the passer. Right now we have 2 or 3.
rufio - January 8, 2012
Pass rush is the key to defense in today’s NFL. Have to have it.
Look at the Giants. They are two games away from the Super Bowl with no running game and their back 7 sucks. Pass rush is key.
Bernie19Kosar - January 9, 2012
No hesitation.
burntorangeandbrown - January 9, 2012
Yeah he played well.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
Couldn’t agree more. Richardson is not a bad pick, but not at the number 4 spot or the Atlanta pick. I dont think it will be an issue, this offense is not looking for the next running back
champion64 - January 7, 2012
The one thing I don’t see anyone mentioning here is the simple fact that your offense needs to be in the lead before you really start relying on your running back. Early in the game you only run to keep defenses honest and open up the pass. We are not a team that needs to close out games we are a team that 1st needs to figure out how to get points and then we can look for a running back.
GrillGuy - January 7, 2012
And boom goes the dynamite.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
You don’t need to be in the lead to start relying on a back at all. Teams often panic far too early and stop running.
Being a run-first team changes the dynamics of the game certainly, but its not something you can only do when you have a lead.
rufio - January 8, 2012
Certainly not always. You play the odds. If you’re playing the someone Browns (awful run D good pass D) you are probably relying more on your ground game.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
although I agree the 300 carry backs are a dying breed
I still think it would be nice to have someone like Richardson especially in a division when you play Cin, Pit, and Bal. You are going to have to run the ball and run the ball a lot.
If they like Richardson they could consider trading down.
Frank Lee - January 7, 2012
Disagree on having to run in our division. I would rather throw vs the steelers then deal with their front 7. Not to mention that both the steelers and Cincinnati have had good success throwing the ball more.
better_next_yr - January 7, 2012
There is probably not many people who would disagree with that statement. The question is what the price is. If we could use our second round pick on Richardson, I’d be all for it. Either of our firsts? Hells no.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
exactly
bross09 - January 7, 2012
I don’t think this is true.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
I think there is some truth there, but the fact that you have to run a lot in this division (especially later in the year) does not really mean that you should spend a first round pick on an RB.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 8, 2012
And I don’t even know how much the old adage of you have to run the ball late in the season is true anymore. Off the top of my head, I can only remember a handful of games in the past ten or so years in which weather played such a role in Cleveland that teams were struggling to pass.
Pittsburgh is a pass first offense. So is Green Bay and New England. I think that the weather aspect gets blown out of proportion at times, and it’s something that gets repeated all the time.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
Definitely blown out of proportion. There will be one game a year or less on average that will be severely affected by weather.
rufio - January 8, 2012
2007 At Buffalo, arguably one of Phil Dawson’s best games. That’s always the first game that comes to my mind when people mention bad weather affecting football.
Doc's Kid - January 9, 2012
if blackmon and rg3 r gone
i really hope we can get blackmon!!! he is a great athlete but if him and rg3 r gone i feel we should also trade back if not what do u guys think of taking clayborne or going with OLB from ASU Burfict???? we need an outside linebacker and i like his style of play we need to stop the run next year! i know we need playmakers on offense but if they are gone and we resign hillis why not get another defensive rookie to start!! last two years we have gotten some great defensive players through the draft! gooo BROWNS!!!
Shaffdog - January 7, 2012
I wouldn’t be opposed to Claiborne but isn’t Burflict projected as a MLB? Too high a pick for a LB who won’t rush the passer.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Pass on LB’s in the first round. Maybe that will be my next article.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
Just write one article about the things you would do in the first round. It will give us less posts to skip.
tribe71 - January 7, 2012
How sweet, and here you are in the thread.
Bernie19Kosar - January 7, 2012
wat a duesh
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
Douche* :o)
Brownsbacker488 - January 8, 2012
Don’t give him ammo please. Burflict is an ILB and he’s already said no. He’s a bad kid with character flaws.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 7, 2012
!!
DontCallMeJoey - January 10, 2012
You could make the case, and you would win the case easily. I’d take Pierre Thomas over Ingram in a heartbeat. And Sproles, although he plays a different role, was definitely more valuable than Ingram too (and Thomas).
TheDriveStillHurts - January 7, 2012
Can we get a game day thread, please?
Brownie's Year - January 7, 2012
We already have a Trent Richardson, his name is Monterio Hardesty. And we have a clock eating RB with Hillis(Please resign him, there isn’t a better back in the draft, why would you waste a pick and then sign him for the same or more than you can sign Hillis for). This article is excellent, it says it all. Blackmon is the pick here, and the best OL available in with the Falcons pick. Give Colt some weapons and some protection and the get rid of Colt talk will stop.
RUSSELL S - January 7, 2012
I would be against drafting a tackle before the third or so myself. We can find a serviceable tackle there. Too many more important needs to pick with out top 3-4 picks.
North Coast Flea - January 7, 2012
Wish it were April now
champion64 - January 7, 2012
I agree, and serviceable linemen aren’t hard to find in free agency. It still kills me that we let Rex Hadnot walk though.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
Could have used Porkchop this last year too.
HenryDawg - January 8, 2012
I knew I forgot someone.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
Wish Yates wouldn’t have retired.
SpecialBrownie - January 8, 2012
Porkchop is the one that bothers me.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
We had our best games last year when Yates was in. He was a bigger loss I think.
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
i’m all for drafting o-line and d-line.
athensdawg - January 7, 2012
BPA in an area of need. i feel all games are won in the trenches. ol/dl where ever the best value is. if trading down is what benefits my beloved brownies the most then so be it. but if TR is a beast AND has exceptional recieving ability,then havi
rayzrsauce - January 7, 2012
MY EYES! THE BURNING!
Brownsbacker488 - January 8, 2012
sorry didn’t finish. but having him AND hillis in the backfield can create an extreme amount of mayhem for opposing defenses. BROWNS OR NO ONE
rayzrsauce - January 7, 2012
Yeah I mean it would be like having to defense a fullback AND a tailback at the same time. Mind boggling.
HenryDawg - January 7, 2012
If blackmon and rg3 are gone then we either trade back or go with coples from nc. We need another de to complete the front 4. Then we could go wr with the Atlantic pick or our 2nd rounder. Maybe a kendall wright or Floyd or Jeffrey whoever we like best or is available
better_next_yr - January 7, 2012 via mobile
*Atlanta pick
better_next_yr - January 7, 2012 via mobile
Every time I see Coples, it seems like he should be better.
He has all the measurables, but then he just disappears. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. I think he has been a “top 10” guy for so long, he is just penciled in. Something doesn’t seem right there.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
At least your neighbor is getting a break. He could use it, I hear he recently had a kid.
Dawg Nuts - January 7, 2012
He constantly lives in fear of strangers punching him for no discernible reason.
notthatnoise - January 8, 2012
That lil’ smug kid is ripe for a punch to the face if we take Richardson.
Bernie19Kosar - January 8, 2012
Very well reasoned and correct. And we need to draft offense in this draft or we are going to be looking at another very bad year. I’d like to see the team competitive. First priority is QB. After that WR. I totally agree that the days of building a team around an RB are gone. I think the rules changes are the most significant factor followed by speed and size of defensive players. The kinetics at the point of a tackle are just overcoming even the best athletes ability to absorb damage.
Brownsyup - January 8, 2012
Anyone notice how it’s the new folks around here looking for Richardson? All of us vets seem to agree he’s not the right answer at #4. Just an observation…
Brownsbacker488 - January 8, 2012
So many subject lines….
Doc's Kid - January 8, 2012
Because we’ve all gone through our trail by fire and football education process already.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Great Article – complete agree. No drafting Trent Richardson @ 4 :)
Luck, Blackmon, RGIII, and then not sure ATM.
BinkDeBook - January 8, 2012
Luck, RGIII, Blackmon, then Claiborne for me. After that I’m not sure either, but one of those 4 is guaranteed to fall to us.
North Coast Flea - January 8, 2012
Worst case scenario is we take Kalil and have book end awesome tackles. I could think of worse things to happen. I could also see trading down and taking Alshon Jeffries, that guy is gigantic.
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
Ram fan here
I was just chatting with some of the boys over at TurfShowTimes about the potential for the Browns to trade up to our #2 spot to scoop up RG3, or more so to keep a team like the Skins from doing the same…
Is that in any way being discussed by you guys?
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
We probably wouldn’t trade up unless we really though another team was going to leap frog us which also presumes we want RG3. Basically at this point, before RG3 works out, it’s too early to say. I would say a trade up is quite unlikely unless we think Rg3 is a franchise QB and another team is a threat to trade up in front of us.
Roger Dorn - January 9, 2012
Ahh, my apologies, as I should have asked that first
are you guys interested in RG3, or are you content with Colt?
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
I am interested in RG3 and I do not think Colt is the long term option we need. So I would not object to it. I don’t know if the FO likes RG3 enough to do it though
bross09 - January 9, 2012
What are your thoughts on trading your #4 and #22 picks
to move up to #2? I’m getting the sense that no one (here) is sold on RG3, so that may sound ludicrous, but as a Rams fan that’s the kind of optimism I’m forced to have :)
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
I don’t think anyone here is sold on Colt being our franchise QB. Trading both picks to move up 2 spots is something that has been discussed, but not many of liked. Our #4 and some late rounders would be a different story though. We would probably be good with that. Still early though, we will have to see how RG3 and the other QB’s play out in the combine and personal workouts.
Kimble_79 - January 9, 2012
Appreciate the insight
I actually live in DC, so it wreaks of desperation around here…….if, post combine, RG3 is the clear choice, I’m guessing that the Skins would be willing to give up just about anything to get the #2 pick and take him.
I, however, cannot stand them, and would be much more inclined to cut a deal with you guys
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
I’m not sure that the Skins will trade up.
Bruce Allen has never drafted a QB higher than the 5th round, and Shanahan has taken a QB earlier than the 5th round once (Cutler).
Granted, I don’t know how much you can take from Shanhan’s draft history as he had Elway. But, I think the Skins will go elsewhere for QB. Just a hunch though.
Bernie19Kosar - January 9, 2012
They're 'wishy washy' about the word 'rebuilding'
and they teeter on the brink of it every year. They actually had a good draft last year, but completely negated the QB position, which I ultimately think killed them (or they killed themselves by not knowing who they were going to start). This’ll be the 3rd year for the Allen/Shanny regime, and from 6 wins to 5, they’re clearly going in the wrong direction. I think they need to draft a QB, but you could be right. Matt Flynn is probably their next Albert Haynesworth…
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
Waaaaay to high of a price to move up two spots.
If that is the price, I’m confident that no one in the league will pay that price.
Bernie19Kosar - January 9, 2012
No one else has two first rounders (except Cinci and NE – but obviously they won’t be looking to move up for a QB…).
I wouldn’t be surprised if Washington offered some combination of 2nd, 3rd, etc. round picks, or possibly their #1 pick next year (maybe a 2nd rounder, plus next year’s first, etc.). Hard to say at this point whether our FO would outbid them. I agree it seems unlikely they’d offer both our 1st rounders.
burntorangeandbrown - January 9, 2012
Is it just me or does NE always have multiple picks in every round? Might as well call that the default picks for NE
Kimble_79 - January 9, 2012
probably just wishful thinking on my part
We clearly have holes all over our team, so my hope is that we’re trading down for multiple picks this year
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
Not sure about the FO but Shurmur popped a boner when someone asked him about RG3.
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
Haha!
I read that article. He was definitely excited to watch that bowl game
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
and if it's not QB
what seems to be the consensus pick at #4 (if there is one)? Operating under the assumption that Luck/RG3, Kalil, and Blackmon will be off the board. I can see that the Trent Richardson talk has apparently grown old :)
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
I don’t know about the others, but if those guys are gone as you say, then I’m going with Morris Clairborne or possibly Quinton Coples, or even Luke Kuechly although I think he would be a reach that early.
Kimble_79 - January 9, 2012
This scenario is impossible, one of the players you mentioned would definitely be there at 4 so I would rank them as
Luck
RG3
Blackmon
Kalil
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
I think he was saying with the “/” that one of those two will be off the board, not both.
North Coast Flea - January 9, 2012
Oh well then clearly take whichever one of them is left over.
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
Yes we’ve discussed it quite a bit, not sure where everyone stands but if H&H think he’s the guy then yeah I would trade up for sure. Would you guys do it for 2nd or 3rd rounder because its only 2 spots and you’ll still get your guy. Also I think the Skins go after Manning. They’re stupid that way.
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
I agree the Skins are relatively reckless in the offseason
though I thought they were much better last year. I’ve heard no rumblings of Manning around these parts, as I live in DC, but the Skins don’t have much ‘buzz,’ they just react and make it happen…….whether right or (most of the time) wrong
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
Let me turn it around on you- who would you take with the 2nd pick: Kalil, Blackmon, or Claiborne?
If you trade with us, you know you’ll get to choose from 2/3 (maybe all 3 if Minny has some sort of mental collapse and draft Richardson (that would be so awesome if they did)).
HenryDawg - January 9, 2012
common sense says Kalil
I would like for us to go with Blackmon, because I feel that we can probably still get a good pick for LT (Martin, possibly) in the late 1st (if we can trade down) or early 2nd. I’m of the mindset, though, that we’d still need to get another FA WR, as it looks like Brandon Lloyd will continue traveling around the country following Josh McDaniels.
That being said, IF we are to get Jeff Fisher, I’m not sure who he’d value more b/w Kalil and Blackmon. For me though, if we’re not trading down, we HAVE TO take Blackmon because if not we won’t see any receiver of value unless it’s in FA
DCRamFan - January 9, 2012
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