Patrick Smith - Getty Images
4 months ago: STATE COLLEGE, PA - JANUARY 22: Community members pay their respects at the statue of Joe Paterno, the former Penn State football coach, after hearing of Paterno's death outside of Beaver Stadium on January 22, 2012 in State College, Pennsylvania. Paterno, who was 85 years old, had been battling lung cancer. (Photo by Patrick Smith/Getty Images)
"The Sunday Five" is a loosely-titled piece where I talk about five NFL- or Browns-related topics related to this past week. In today's edition, I was originally going to just focus a bit more on the playoffs. With the news of Joe Paterno passing away this morning, though, that is what we'll begin with.
Legendary Penn State football coach Joe Paterno passed away at the age of 85 on Sunday after having suffered through lung cancer. Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that his legacy/reputation took a hit over the past year due to the Jerry Sandusky situation. We don't need to debate how Paterno should be remembered, but rather acknowledge that Paterno affected the lives of many people in a positive manner, especially in the state of Pennsylvania.
Wide receiver Terrell Owens signed with The Wranglers of the Indoor Football League (IFL) recently, after no NFL teams attended a workout he held during the regular season. Owens had a very productive season in 2010, but after tearing his ACL, nobody was interested in the aging receiver in 2011. I doubt that Owens' production in the IFL will captivate NFL teams, but I'm sure there will be some team that offers him a one-year contract when training camp rolls around, much like the 49ers originally did with Braylon Edwards before cutting ties with him right before the end of the regular season.
I was watching a special titled "The Brady 6" yesterday, a documentary that went live back in April 2011. It talked about the six quarterbacks in Tom Brady's draft class and how their careers panned out compared to his. One of the first quarterbacks mentioned in the piece was the Browns' Spergon Wynn. I couldn't help but crack up at a conversation shown between Chris Palmer and Brian Billick. To recap, Palmer told Billick in a quiet/secretive voice "You know, I think this Wynn kid is going to be pretty good." Billick didn't have the slightest idea where Wynn came from, and even after Palmer told him he played at the University of Minnesota while Billick was with the Vikings, Billick was still confused -- even to the point where he asked what position Wynn played in college.
I haven't changed my pick for the AFC Championship game. I'm sticking with the Patriots, as the only way I think the Ravens could pull off an upset is if they had a similar beginning to the playoff game they played two years ago. That was a rarity, and after the season Brady has had with Rob Gronkowski and company, I don't see it happening again. When I couple that with my lack of faith in Joe Flacco to deliver in the clutch, I see New England winning by a couple of possessions.
The NFC Championship game hasn't gotten any easier for me to project. I think the 49ers and the Giants are evenly matched, with both teams playing at the top of their games right now. Despite being on the road, I like Eli Manning and the Giants' playoff experience to propel them to the Super Bowl for a rematch from 2007.
0 recs | 264 comments
No offense to DN, but the cult following to JoePa is a little much IMO. I don’t know if a candlelight vigil was really something that needed to be. Just my opinion though.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
Trying to get into the mindset of a PSU fan, I see why they did it. I mean, he did coach there for 40+ years and was basically the school. Scandal or not, he is a major figure of that university.
emily522 - January 22, 2012
I suppose so. I just don’t think a University should endorse such a cult following. Many kids went there because their parents made them; because of JoePa. That’s crazy.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
And it was the same at Ohio State under Woody Hayes when he was there.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Incomparable honestly.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
Why do you think you know so much about this?
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
I’m ok with saying there is (and was) a cult following behind Woody Hayes. He passed before I was born and I still worship the guy as an OSU legend.
Simmsinns - January 22, 2012
Surprised no one asks me if I know he punched a Clemson football player when they find out I’m still an OSU fan.
emily522 - January 22, 2012
That incident only added to the awesomeness that is Woody Hayes.
Simmsinns - January 22, 2012
Greatest moment in college sports history.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
Not even remotely close. Shameful, actually.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Awesomely shameful.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
Shamefully shameful.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Awesomely shamefully awesome.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
Woody Hayes forever!
Simmsinns - January 22, 2012
I never understood why a tiny, old man hitting a huge guy in pads was such a big deal. I still think its funny.
HenryDawg - January 22, 2012
I respect him for some things, but he basically had the opinion that classes got in the way for playing football and constantly fought with academics who wanted his players to actually attend class. Doesn’t exactly help its reputation in higher learning circles. Most of that has faded into the dust, but it was fairly pervasive prior to Gordon Gee’s first tenure.
HenryDawg - January 22, 2012
“Cult following” is a bit offensive. Joe was one of the greatest men to have ever lived. Sometimes you need to learn when to just shut up.
StuckInPa - January 22, 2012 via Android app
Except that after last year, he wasn’t.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
You don’t know exactly what discussions were had behind closed doors. You also don’t know Joe Paterno. I never met him either, but I know people who have known him and I have lived my entire life 25 miles from State College. Joe Paterno was a good man who cared about people.
Keep in mind, much of the info you’re getting is coming from the same ESPN that many of you are so quick to criticize for pushing agendas and twisting the truth.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Well…
Hitler did some good things too.
*runs away.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
, apparently,
Simmsinns - January 22, 2012
I’ll assume this was for the DBN comedic value and not an actual comparison.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
75/25.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
I’m realizing now why so many people feud with you. I guess I’m just usually on the same side of the argument as you.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Because me and you are always right. This is just difference of morality and opinion. Happens to the best of friend’s.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
However, you just questioned my morality. Let’s drop this.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Cult following is actually quite fitting in this situation, as it’s different from simply a “strong following”.
Considering something you would expect from a cult following is the group to follow the person no matter what, i.e. after the proven facilitation of rampant child molestation.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 22, 2012
Good point.
Simmsinns - January 22, 2012
Yep.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
If you believe Joe Paterno facilitated child molestation, you’re an even bigger ass than I already believed you to be. Get your facts straight. Maybe he could have done more, but he doesn’t appear to have done anything supportive of Sandusky’s actions, and you know it.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Well in fairness, it doesn’t seem he did all he could to stop it, does it?
emily522 - January 22, 2012
No, to me it wasn’t enough. My problem is with saying he facilitated it. That’s suggesting he helped make it easier for Sandusky to do it, or that he took part in a cover up. Nothing has suggested that to be true.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
That’s the thing I don’t get about this debate: how the same level of moral responsibility is assigned to Paterno as to the administrators he reported to who subsequently failed to take it to police. He should have done more. And what he did (or didn’t do) was unconscionable. But what the administrators did (or didn’t do) was unlawful. There’s a difference.
batard - January 22, 2012
yes, those weren’t the right words to used.
bross09 - January 22, 2012
Ironic.
Bernie19Kosar - January 22, 2012
When it comes to something like child molestation, if you’re in the position to do something and you DON’T, and considering there is a chance it’s continuing, it’s essentially facilitation. You a bigger ass then your support suggest if you can’t comprehend that.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 22, 2012
He did do something. He thought he did what he had to do, many people disagree, myself included. My problem is saying he facilitated it. None of the facts show that to be true.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
You facilitate it when you don’t go above and beyond to stop it. Not telling proper authorities is facilitation.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
One of the people he went to was the head of the University Police, who in turn did nothing with it. I personally believe he should have followed up, but he didn’t. Look up the definition of facilitation. It doesn’t fit Joe Paterno.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
He did tell proper authorities.
notthatnoise - January 22, 2012
Even if he did, he knew they didn’t pursue it.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
So Joe Paterno is supposed to just assume the police didn’t do their due diligence?
notthatnoise - January 22, 2012
The proper authorites were the POLICE, it was not a Penn State violation, it was a VIOLENT CRIME against another human, being. What was Schultz authority??? to Fire Sandusky? THE POLICE are the only authorities to be contacted.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
The incident was reported to the university police.
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
Look are you not comprehending, this? A Violent Crime took place, not a robbery or a jaywalking, TELLING THE COUNTY, OR STATE POLICE IMMEDIATELY, is to help IMMEDIATELY the victim, and IMMEDIATELY stop Sandusky from having a chance to do it again. What if Sandusky was raping that kid 10 more times that weekend? or killed him, would reporting to the campus police being enough? What was the campus police going to revoke Sandusky’s parking pass? THE CRIME MERITED STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS, and you know that
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Why didn’t the kids themselves go to the police? Joe did his job. Yes he could have done more. He’s gone now. End of story.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
What kids? The kids being raped, you are blaming them now for not speaking up? Wonderful. Protect Joe old ass Paterno, but say the kids are to blame for not speaking up. THEY WERE RAPED AND THEY WERE ages 8-13, Yeah blame them, wonderful post. He did not do his job as a human, as a man. He failed miserably in this situation
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I’m not blaming the kids at all. I’m saying many people were affected along the way but it all comes down to Paterno? Why does he suffer all the blame for what Jerry Sandusky did?
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
Joe Paterno died a villified man. Is that not enough justice for you? Keep dragging his name through the mud if you wish. I’m going to remember the good he did.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
Furthermore, I could only surmise all of this came out because he knew he was dying and he did so with a clean conscience.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
The good he did is now overshadowed but a HORRIBLE wrong. He did not protect that kid, or future kids. In his own words, “I dont know what rape of another man is, I never heard of it” and “I did not know our procedures on handling something like this, if it was a crime or what.” Ok he had no clue that you reported a crime to the Police. If it were his grandson, would he have waited or would he have wanted to know IMMEDIATELY what Sandusky did with his grandson? and if his Grandson was ok? He failed miserably in a way you cannot afford to fail, a game wasnt lost, many children starting with that child were hurt and JOE PATERNO’s INCCORECT ACTIVITY HELPED IT TO CONTINUE
champion64 - January 23, 2012
So if I tell you I have counseled many people on both sides of the coin (children and adults) and because it was in a clinical setting and I have to maintain confidentiality regardless of learning of the actions of some, what does that make me? Am I a facilitator? Joe reported to his superiors upon learning about the problem. It went nowhere from there. Did they want to protect the “program”, I’m sure they did. Maybe because I have worked with this kind of stuff I have a more understanding perspective. I still think Joe did his job by reporting it. I also think it killed him that they wanted to keep it hush. And months before his death he blew it wide open and died with a clean conscience.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
What you are failing to realize and it is amazing you are missing this. Joe Paterno was told of a heinous crime, HIS ONLY ACTION should have been Mike McQueary what are you waiting for, call the STATE POLICE NOW. THAT KID IS IN DANGER NOW.
THat child could have been getting raped over and over and over again by Sandusky due to EVERYONE’S INACTION. For Joe Paterno to report it to his supervisor is saying that the matter only involved Penn State. IT WAS A CRIME AGAINST A CHILD OF OUR SOCIETY, not against Penn state football or university, so why report it to the university.
You know he needed to take McQueary (who is as guilty or more) to the STATE POLICE immediately and report it and they would have raced to find that child. Your words are proving how little your understand.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
If it were you and you did not act by going to the Police I will feel the same way, and I would hold myself to that standard too.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I honestly don’t know how to feel about it. The truth is, my best friend’s dad was a pedophile. He never touched me and i’m quite certain that he never “raped” anyone. I never saw anything happen myself. I personally felt it was wrong. The world is not a black and white place. I understand more than you give me credit for.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
If you ask me if I would have called the police if I saw someone being taken against his will…..Damn right I would have.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
And McQueary should be hung up for not doing that. You are right
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I think you missed my point but i’m not going to be the first one to say it.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
Nearly every one of your posts do this to you, regardless of the topic.
The University Police are a full time police force, not traffic guards. Joe Paterno went to Gary Schultz, who was in charge of the University Police and reported what McQuerry told him, which it now also appears may have been less than the full story of what he saw.
Joe could have followed up, but he certainly didn’t facilitate child rape.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
so I guess your goal here is to rant and rave about a dead man who has no power to defend himself? This line of comments is starting to become kinda sick imo.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
There is no defense for his inaction
champion64 - January 23, 2012
very debatable as you can see. I wish he did more and morally he is certainly in the wrong, but he told the head of campus police.
What more do you want? him to press charges and testify against Sandusky? he never even saw the incident and heard of it secondhand.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
if your employee told you a coworker was raping someone would you wait till your boss got in the next day to tell him? Or would you go immediately to the police?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Mike McQueary was wrong, should have done more immediately, and is about 100 times more to blame than Joe Paterno.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
I agree
champion64 - January 23, 2012
If your employee told you a stupid, pointless hypothetical would you go along with it or would you smack them in the face?
bross09 - January 23, 2012
IT WAS ALLEGED RAPE , not hypothetical, it demands immediate action
champion64 - January 23, 2012
it’s a hypothetical because
a) you asked “what would you do if”
b) the situation in reference I personally was not involved in.
Please learn what a hypothetical situation is and come back later.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
The defense is that there wasn’t inaction. There just should have been a little more follow up.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
You are right immediate action
champion64 - January 23, 2012
McQueary told Joe the following morning.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
This is a strawman of the highest degree.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Calm down. If you would read what I’ve written you would see that I think Paterno should have gone to the police right away, so you can stop harping on the time frame, I agree with you there.
Campus police have different powers in different areas. At Case, the campus police can arrest you, question you, search you, etc. If they think you have committed a crime they can handcuff you and take you to the city police.
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
At OSU and CU campus police are real police, just stationed on the campus.
At Baldwin Wallace, campus police are 40+ year old bros with too much time on their hands who drive around in golf carts and SUVs.
rufio - January 23, 2012
KSU has douchebag full time police.
SpecialBrownie - January 23, 2012
The Penn State University Police are an actual full-time police force, with the same qualifications as the State College Borough Police Department and the Pennsylvania State Police. Congratulations once again for unloading on something without having your facts straight.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
The point I think you are all trying to make is that Paterno is more in the light of this situation than is Sandusky, and I agree that is unfair. Sandusky is , was, and always will be the problem and he is on the back burner. Paterno did not act right and his inaction was horrible at best, BUT THE TRUE PROBLEM IS, WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE SANDUSKY and that is not mentioned as much. Sandusky still claims his innocence. How do you look at a man like that. He ruined many lives, yes including Joe Paterno’s life.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
really? Doesn’t explain why you came out guns ablazing, criticizing Paterno and smearing his memory post mortem.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Paterno share a tremendous amount of blame
champion64 - January 23, 2012
does that mean that your rampage on here is justified? You lead the charge against Paterno and then also agree that it is unfair the way people are treating Joe Pa.
Do you seriously not see a problem there?
bross09 - January 23, 2012
After the story broke, an idiot radio host crucified Paterno. He cited a polling where something like 17% of people asked said Paterno was the biggest criminal in the whole mess. How’s that for ignoring Sandusky?
Doc's Kid - January 23, 2012
So why did he wait two days? He called them Sunday night, he could have called them immediately. Why wait? It was rape, it was not Sandusky stole the kids bike
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Because he made a mistake in judgment. If you’d read what anybody was saying instead of trying to be the bastion of righteousness, you’d see that we all think he handled it poorly.
I just don’t believe, and will never believe, that Joe Paterno facilitated child rape. He didn’t.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Not saying he did. I am saying that anyone as an adult should know, If McQueary told Paterno, Paterno after hearing what McQueary told him had enough to IMMEDIATELY call the STATE POLICE (not the campus police head two days after) as to make sure the POLICE could have IMMEDIATELY followed up with Sandusky as to what happened and where the child was IMMEDIATELY. The investigation needed to start immediately
champion64 - January 23, 2012
McQueary told Joe the following morning.
I’m not sure how many different ways I can explain the Penn State University Police to you.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
This sounds terrible to say in hindsight, since we know the truth, but in real time, Paterno may have been wrestling with if this was even true. It’s possible that if it wasn’t he’s ruining this man’s life.
HenryDawg - January 23, 2012
when did we jump to murder?
bross09 - January 23, 2012
the point is who knows what happened to that kid. It is not like pedophiles have not shown an ability to kill their victims. My point is what was lost that night is that by McQueary’s and Paterno’s inaction immediately , that child was in serious danger.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
McQueary went to Paterno the following morning, not right after it happened.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Still don’t understand why McQueary didn’t go to police the second he saw that happen. I just don’t get it.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
Because you have a brain Emily. I agree McQueary is worse!
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I agree. He is much more to blame in all of this.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
I dont know how McQueary has remained out of the harsh light. HE IS THE WORST OFFENDER. He was a grown man, Next comes his dad. His dad said come home son we will talk about it then and tell someone tomorrow. HIS FATHER SHOULD HAVE SAID, “why are you calling me, call the damn police”, but no one is saying anything about them
champion64 - January 23, 2012
because people like you decide to jump on Joe Pa because he is visible?
bross09 - January 23, 2012
no because Jo Pa was wrong
champion64 - January 23, 2012
So the reason we aren’t hearing about mcqueary even though you state what he in your words: IS THE WORST OFFENDER, is (also by your own words):
and this is a statement that I don’t necessarily 100% agree with. I would have handled it differently, but that doesn’t mean he was wrong or should be targeted.
Legally, he did all the right things that were in his scope to handle. A lot of the blame legally (and morally) lies with mcqueary. morally, he lies within a gray zone. I believe what he did was not the moral thing to do, but it’s unclear whether it was “wrong”.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
He did not. He waited two day. The reason we hear about Paterno, is because of the press. I AGREE WITH YOU MCQUEARY SHOULD BE HELD TO THE FIRE FIRST AND FOREMOST
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Whether he waited 2 hours or 2 days, he reported it to the right authorities that had jurisdiction on campus and he followed his legal obligation.
Unless there is some evidence that Sandusky went on a massive rape spree during those 2 days, it’s irrelevant anyways.
yes, the same press that reported he was dead about a half a day before he actually died. You are better off not listening to them or taking what they say with a grain of salt.
then why aren’t you?
bross09 - January 23, 2012
You said whether he waited 2 days is irrelevant, is teh most ridiculous thing you could say. DO YOU REALIZE HE COULD HAVE TAKEN THAT CHILD AND SUBJECTED HIM TO MORE RAPE OR WORSE??? DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD HAVE WAITED? HOW CAN YOU SAY HIM WATING DID NOT MATTER.
SO BY YOUR ESTIMATION MCQUEARY, AND PATERNO WAITING AND ONLY TELLING THE CAMPUS POLICE WAS THE RIGH THING TO DO?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
1. McQueary told Joe the following day.
2. The University Police are a full-time, legit police force.
3. Goddamnit, you don’t listen at all do you?
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
You need to chill on the all capital letters. It’s annoying and will make people not take you seriously and not want to read your posts.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
which is irrelevant in ripping apart Joe Pa unless there is actual proof that he raped him more.
no, but I (just like you) are not close to the situation so what we would do doesn’t help much.
no. Please stop using all caps and misspelling and spewing this. I am seriously close to dropping a “cleveland.com” but I respect you to much for that.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
I could have swore that there was some quote by a chief of police in PA saying that Paterno did the wrong thing morally by not following up on this.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
Yes, we all agree he did the wrong thing morally. That isn’t where people are butting heads here.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Well bross said it was a gray zone.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
Emily you cant believe what Paterno did was in a gray zone. Wouldnt you have called 911 immediately or made McQueary call the police?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I never said it was a gray zone…
emily522 - January 23, 2012
Emily I read it wrong, I am sorry, You did not. I am sorry
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I believe what he did was wrong, but this touches on a deeper subject that I believe that a good deal of what is “moral” is relative and lies in a gray area.
What Sandusky did is definitely morally wrong in the minds of pretty much everyone. I believe Joe Pa is wrong but whether the unreporting is “wrong” morally is a little more gray (which, as I will state again is not my opinion on the situation)
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Bross all I think everyone is saying is that by waiting he allowed the possibility of more harm to that child. He is a citizen of the United States and when someone reports he saw a child being raped or something very sexual in nature, with a child , immediately the prudent thing is to call the police that minute, not to wait. Of this there should be no debate.
Lastly, dont threaten to drop me from cleveland.com I should be alllowed to say what I wish a million times.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I didn’t threaten to drop a cleveland.com. I said that the way you were going about this was tempting me to, but I like you. You aren’t deserving of cleveland.com but this thread was one of the moments where to me it seemed like you got a little off…but I am not one to talk. Ask anyone around here who has been part of the community since around this time 2 years ago.
bross09 - January 24, 2012
Just looking at it different. I liked Joe Paterno for along time and am very dissapointed at him. I guess we can just see what happens. No biggie we are cool
champion64 - January 24, 2012
Yes, for all we know mcqueary was also a Vampire and bit those kids.
Let’s just start making shit up!!
yes, so they are all murderers, we should assume. How many times is their spousal murder??
DON’T get married!! You will be killed!
bross09 - January 23, 2012
So do you say hey lets take the chance Sandusky doesn’t further hurt the child?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
no, I am saying your logic is stupid and if it was the case, we should assume that every spouse is a potential murderer and every parent could be Casey Anthony.
making vast assumptions of a general populous can lead to dangerous situations.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Yes we should assume a 50 year old man who allegedly raped a child (a violent act) is capable of MORE violence. Just like if a criminal escapes from a prison we are to assume he is capable of violence and treat it as so
champion64 - January 23, 2012
no we shouldn’t. It’s a ridiculous assumption that only you have seemed to ever assert.
If a criminal escapes from prison, that is two crimes. the crime that put him in there and the crime of him breaking out. It’s a clear, established pattern as opposed to the well behaved convict.
At the time, Joe Pa didn’t have information that this was anything more than a 1 time offender.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
YOU HAVE LOST ALL CREDIBILITY WITH THAT STATEMENT. If it were your child would you have been ok with Paterno and McQueary waiting two days and then going to a supervisor?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
or would wanted Sandusky to be assumed dangerous? HE WAS RAPING A CHILD
champion64 - January 23, 2012
this is an irrelevant statement. If I had a child, I would be protective past the point where it was rational.
You are trying to sway my emotions, you aren’t using logic and when you are, it is flawed. This is not the way to win someone over, it makes you look pandering.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
NO I am not, It was a child who was being allegedly raped and IMMEDIATE action was called for. YOU can’t seem to understand that , so maybe you ought to check what is important and decent in life
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Joe didn’t know in time to take immediate action while the child was being raped.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
I think we both agree that is where he went wrong. When informed he should have said told McQueary, “what the hell are you telling me for, CALL THE DAMN POLICE”. I have no clue what the hell McQueary or his dad were doing, why they did not call right away speaks that they are a major part of the problem, YES even more than Joe
champion64 - January 23, 2012
The lowest degree of criminal facilitation
Sorry, but this doesn’t describe it at all because he didn’t “render aid”.
bross09 - January 22, 2012
Right, the most he did was make sure it didn’t happen in the facilities of PSU anymore. Wtf?
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
Exactly, if you are going to rape them, just dont do it here.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
you realize the only people who are trying to hate on Joe Pa like you are TLP and an occasional troll?
bross09 - January 23, 2012
You can’t excuse his inaction
champion64 - January 23, 2012
you already said that. try again.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Tim Curley and Gary Schultz are the ones who stopped it at that.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
and Paterno and McQueary
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Paterno couldn’t legally do anything else at the time.
notthatnoise - January 24, 2012
So the millions that bawled and cried at Michael Jackson’s death…. The guy even was the one that did it…
But then if you’d go with the “no matter what” clause, I guess you could toss in Elvis and Princess Di just to name a few.
3PON Nemo - January 22, 2012
yes, people often forget the faults when someone dies…unless that person is Joe Pa I guess…
bross09 - January 22, 2012
People that aren’t here don’t understand. Cult following is completely inaccurate. Joe Paterno did more positive things for more people than most will ever know. He gave a great deal back to Penn State that benefited the entire university and everyone who attended it, myself included. Not only that, he was a member of the community. He walked to and from work everyday for the longest time and had his name and address listed in the State College phone book. He wasn’t some unapproachable superstar like so many other coaches and athletes. Not only that, if you ask his former players, almost everyone of them will tell you that Joe genuinely cared about them as students and men, not just football players.
Despite what has happened recently with the Sandusky scandal, and it’s certainly open for debate as to whether Joe had any level of blame, his legacy at Penn State, Central PA, and the world of college football cannot be doubted. He made many people’s lives better, and he did it gladly. As a Penn Stater, I’m proud to have had him as our coach and leader for my entire life up until November 2011.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
If you’re trying to deny “cult status”, that’s a bad way to start it.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
How so? Because you don’t understand all of the good things he did like those of us who have been within this community and followed the program closely do? I’m not getting into an argument about this.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Everyone understands what he’s done. There is no denying that.
But the thing PSUers don’t comprehend is that you’ve put him on a pedestal and placed him to a higher standard over the last 40 years. He has to be held to that standard in everything he does. You can’t lower that standard as say “well he did just enough” when it comes to this, when he was in position to do much, much more.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 22, 2012
He could have done more, I agree that he should have done more. Again, my problem is with claiming he facilitated it. Joe Paterno did nothing to help Jerry Sandusky rape children.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
But he assisted in creating the environment of tip-toeing and non-action, which facilitated the lack of stopping Sandusky when everything was on the table.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 22, 2012
This will get us nowhere. I’m finished. I apologize for calling you an ass.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
Don’t let them bother you. Joe was a good man who made a mistake.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 22, 2012
Thank you.
Dawg Nuts - January 22, 2012
So the priest who pass pedophiles along and dont report it are good men who made a mistake. Do you realize Paterno’s mistake allowed other kids to be harmed?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Those are completely different situations.
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
How so?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Joe Paterno had heard from a second hand source that thought he “may have, possibly” seen something. The church knew for a fact what was going on.
Joe Paterno went to the police. Way, way later than he should have, but he still did it. The church did not.
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
No not true. A Bishop was made aware of things that may have happened. The possible crime demanded immediate action, the church’s inaction is as wrong as Joe Paterno’s and Mike McQueary’s inaction
champion64 - January 23, 2012
There has been more than one instance of this you know.
notthatnoise - January 24, 2012
Just stop trying to start stuff.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
No I am stating truth
champion64 - January 23, 2012
No, you’re stating bullshit that you don’t even know all the facts about. You’re being an over-opinionated, know-it-all troll. Care to slam Colt McCoy’s height while we’re at it?
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Great reply. I see you are losing the arguement
champion64 - January 23, 2012
In your mind, there never was an argument because you’re right about everything. Well played, as usual.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
No but I know you know I am right on this one. You agree. McQueary was horrible, McQueary’s father was just as bad. I think they were complete asses
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Seriously, do you even read comments before you reply to them? I’ve said numerous times now that Mike McQueary was to blame. That’s what you’re right about. On nearly everything else, you’re dead wrong.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
what am I wrong about
champion64 - January 23, 2012
to be fair, you kinda have issues comprehending points you don’t agree with.
bross09 - January 22, 2012
We all do brother.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 22, 2012
yes and no. I can sometimes understand where a person is coming from even though I don’t agree.
bross09 - January 22, 2012
That just means you are more evolved. I didn’t mean all the time.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 22, 2012
I wouldn’t say more evolved, but I work hard at the skill and its something my parents instilled in me and worked hard at it. Whenever I would become too dogmatic about a point, my dad would always take the devil’s advocate point in arguments to check that.
bross09 - January 22, 2012
I think remembering the good without ignoring the bad is the way to go.
emily522 - January 22, 2012
Was Joe a smoker?
Brownie's Year - January 22, 2012
Only asking because one of my aunts was diagnosed with lung cancer last month and she never smoked a thing in her life.
Brownie's Year - January 22, 2012
You don’t need to smoke to get lung cancer. Sure, smoker greatly increases the risk but cancer is just the rampant, uncontrollable growth of deformed cells. It could’ve started in her heart and just moved and centralized into her lungs for all we know.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
I know. Generally when you hear the words lung cancer you immediately think of smoking. I was just asking because I didn’t see Joe as a smoker.
Brownie's Year - January 22, 2012
If it finally affected him at 85, I doubt the cause was smoking regardless of if he was a smoker or not. His age, combined with the stress and degradation of his body probably lead to incorrect manifestation of cells fairly easily and quickly. Hence him dieing so quickly after diagnosis.
SpecialBrownie - January 22, 2012
You can smoke your whole life and the LC can still show up late when you’re a geezer. I do agree with you though.
Brownie's Year - January 22, 2012
Jow was not a smoker, never smoked
champion64 - January 23, 2012
that is Joe, not Jow
champion64 - January 23, 2012
via deadspin
Simmsinns - January 22, 2012
sorta ironic the GI Joe stuff is around his pic
UnSafe 70 - January 22, 2012
How can any of you condone Paterno not taking Mcqueary that night and going to the police. He waited 2 days!!!! The kid could have been raped multiple more times in that time period or killed and Joe paterno did not know what to do?? How can you excuse that?
If it was Joe Paterno’s grandson would he have waited and only called his supervisor? No. If it were your son and was raped multiple more times that night and weekend as Paterno debated and only called his supervisor would you have been happy with Paterno? NO.
A crime like rape, torture, murder, all means immediate police attention, he waited, the kid could have been raped over and over as he waited. How can you condone their in action?
I do not condone what McQueary, McQueary’s father, Paterno, Schultz, or Curley did. They all are guilty of protecting Penn State.
If you see a child being raped by a co worker after hours at work do you wait a day to call your supervisor so the child may be taken some where and be raped again? NO. If a employee of yours tells you what happened, do you wait another day to tell the company owner and ask company policy on this matter or do you take the witness to the police station and tell him to report it? Stop condoning the wrong just because it was Joe Paterno.
champion64 - January 22, 2012
No one condoned his actions. He obviously should have reported it right away. I realize this is an inflammatory issue, but there is some gray area here. It’s possible to think that Joe Paterno is an overall decent human being who made a colossal mistake. No one here has said that his actions were exactly what they should have been. But there’s a fine line between saying he should have gone to the police earlier and saying he facilitated child rape.
If you doubt my sincerity on this topic perhaps some other members can vouch for how seriously I take the crimes of rape and sexual assault. It’s a topic I have had to deal with in my personal life far too often, I know what it does to people. I’m fully aware of just how damaging this whole thing is to those kids, and Joe Paterno played his part in that. But this won’t be the last time someone hesitates to turn in a very good friend.
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
Oye Vey, we all know.
SpecialBrownie - January 23, 2012
The other way to go here would have been to show a little more compassion toward NTN, as he’s obviously had this type of thing impact his life.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Are you kidding me?
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
This is how it should be…
JERRY: Hey, Joe if I raped somebody would you turn me in?
JOE: Uh… Definitely.
JERRY: You’re kidding?
JOE: No, no, I would turn you in.
JERRY: You would turn me in?
JOE: I wouldn’t even think about it.
JERRY: I can’t believe what I’m hearing! You’re supposed to be a friend of mine!
JOE: Well, what kind of person are you going around raping people?
JERRY: Well, I am sure I had a good reason.
JOE: Yeah, well, if you’ll rape this person, who’s to say I wouldn’t be next?
JERRY: But you know me!
JOE: I thought I DID!
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
By the way, Bravo on the Seinfeld reference.
Bernie19Kosar - January 23, 2012
After reading that NTN line that was the first thing that came to mind. It’s just meant to be a joke. I laughed the whole time while typing it.
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
One of Kramer’s best scenes ever.
Bernie19Kosar - January 23, 2012
We’re on the same side of this argument, but this part isn’t exactly correct. They weren’t good friends, in fact they had little social interaction outside of the football program.
My point is this: is it so hard to believe that when Joe went to Gary Schultz, who was directly in charge of University Police, he thought the matter would be taken care of properly? Maybe Joe should have done more follow up, I personally believe he should have, but it in no way means he “facilitated” child rape.
Joe Paterno was a good man who made a mistake. No one will convince me otherwise.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
My final opinion on this is that Paterno, despite this scandal, certainly has left his legacy at PSU. He was important to the university and PSU fans. It’s fine to remember the good, but it’s also important to remember the bad that came along with it. (Kind of like Tressel, but to a lesser extent.) He may have been a good person, but it’s my opinion that he made a very very very grave mistake by not following up on this more.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
Agree completely.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Paterno was worse than Tressel
champion64 - January 23, 2012
but to a lesser extent
implying that we do the same thing with Tressel, but to a lesser extent.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
That was oddly worded though
emily522 - January 23, 2012
oh I see, sorry
champion64 - January 23, 2012
It goes way further than a colossal mistake, and there sure as hell isn’t any grey area here. I bet a lot of people wouldn’t take it so lightly if it was a kid they personally knew, and a bunch of people with a ton of power and influence swept their abuse under the rug because they were all well connected.
People who’re saying “I can understand since they were friends”, I can speak personally and say that there are many people in my life who I consider to be family. And if I ever found out they abused little children then I’d want to see them rot in jail regardless of relationship or how long I knew them. And no that’s not an after the fact thing.
To the people who are saying “he went to proper authorities”, I ask what would a normal person do in that situation? We would simply call call 911, rather than taking the time to seek out specific people to set up a private meeting in order to pass the information to as few as possible. And those people happened to be well connected individuals who were the only people in State College who could allow the situation to not blow up.
And even worst, he waited a couple of days. Since went do we decide to help out our fellow citizens who are in immediate need whenever see fit unless we have ulterior motives?
Joe Paterno facilitated child rape, it’s as simple as that. A lack of action can at times be just as incriminating and damaging as an action itself. Joe Pa, for around a decade, was involved in creating an environment were a man he knew had sexually abused children was walking freely and one of the reasons for that was because he allowed him to. The entire time he could have easily been hurting other children. Joe couldn’t give a f*ck. So why in the world should I give a f*ck about his legacy when if that was my child Sandusky was abusing, he didn’t give a f*ck about him?
If anything this entire situation shows how easily we as a people are willing to throw down common sense and our own morals in order to alleviate blame of our most beloved figures. Sure, lets hold him to a high standard for everything in his life, other than an appropriate response to pedophilia. These responses disgust me
The Licensed Pessimist - January 23, 2012
I agree 100%.
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
Nail on head.
SpecialBrownie - January 23, 2012
Perfectly put. Thank you
champion64 - January 23, 2012
No, it isn’t.
And don’t try to take the high road on me. I work as a probation officer, dealing with sex offenders on a daily basis. I put forth a lot of effort to ensure that they don’t have the opportunity to offend again. I’m not downplaying sexual assault. I also have kids of my own and am sensitive to children being abused.
Joe Paterno went to the head of University Police and told him what he knew. Schultz and Curley then made a point of keeping everything hush-hush. Joe should have followed up more, he was wrong for not doing so. For you to say he facilitated child rape disgusts me.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Dawg Nuts dont you think immediately he should have called the Police the minute he heard it instead of waiting?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Yes, I do. I’ve said it a hundred times. It doesn’t mean Joe facilitated child rape. Your immediacy argument isn’t as valid though when we know McQueary didn’t tell him until the following day.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
But even when he told him the next day, he should have demanded McQueary call then, and not say hey it is the weekend, I will call my supervisor tomorrow. That is the problem.
Dont you think it looks somewhat like a cover up?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
No, I don’t. And what makes you think Paterno could have “demanded” McQueary do anything? You keep wanting to bring up other workplaces: my boss couldn’t demand that I do anything that wasn’t directly related to my job duties, and I wouldn’t allow him to.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Then if McQueary wouldn’t then Paterno should have said if you are not calling them immediately I am. I think that makes the most sense. COVER UP
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Facilitate – to make easier or less difficult; help forward
Did Joe Paterno not make it easier for Sandusky to maintain his freedom, in turn leading to potentially more inappropriate encounters?
Joe intentionally avoided the proper authoritative channels in order to downplay what occurred in the showers. If he would have simply dialed three numbers, and allowed the police to do their normal procedures as any NORMAL person would, then everything would have been on public record and it couldn’t have been swept under the rug.
Only a fool would believe that the two people who Joe communicated with about the situation, are the two people who kept it on the hush. hell, anyone who weighed abused children more importantly than a colleague would have announced it over the intercom
If you sit around for a decade allowing something to happen when a simple call could have changed the course, and its your moral DUTY to society and the children we need to protect to prevent such occurances, then you’re part of the reason it happened. Apparently you must not have too much of a problem with it if you can sleep well at night knowing what the consequences could be.
And whats even more funny is the fact that my opinion disgusts you, but Joe’s actions don’t seem to be too disgusting.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 23, 2012
Even if you go by the dictionary definition of “facilitate” (disregarding criminal facilitation) and apply it, I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you are trying to make it out to be.
What is the “proper” authoritative channels. For an event that happened on campus, with a former employee and witnessed by a current employee, how is it that campus police is improper. Due to the cover up that happened when the information was passed higher, it clearly wasn’t the best route in hindsight. That doesn’t make it any less proper than the local police.
its funny how Joe Pa seems to be the linchpin and all his fault when the people above who he gave the info too covered it up even though it was their moral duty not to. How mcqueary didn’t stop it and Joe Pa gets blamed for going to the proper authorities on hearsay information and a secondhand eyewitness account.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Joe Pa is the only one having his actions justified by idiots. Everyone is in agreement that everyone else involved are crap.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 23, 2012
so they fire at Joe Pa, because there is no one else to fire at an no one else to debate…
bross09 - January 23, 2012
No I agree with you, Curley, Schultz, and McQueary all needed to be fired too, for a start, not just Joe Paterno.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I agree. I don’t remember the timeline but did they fire Joe Pa before Curley and Schults were fired/stepped down/etc…? I don’t thinnk Joe Pa is blameless, but it seems like a lot of the actions and words taken against him were not solutions oriented because he wasn’t the serious problem.
I think one of the biggest reasons why people want to target Joe Pa before Curley and Schultz is because he always at least put on the image of running a good and clean (at least by CFB standards these days) program.
Its kinda like how everyone went after Tressel except the few people who kinda knew what was going on (mostly OSU fans) and realized that Gene Smith was also a huge problem.
bross09 - January 24, 2012
trying to get this resolved without putting it in the national media like it ended up is not an awful thing in of itself. He has to look out at least somewhat for the program too and he sure as hell should report it to the police (which he did), but it is not inherently a wrong thing to try to resolve the issue then and then make sure it doesn’t turn into a huge scandal.
Unfortunately, Joe Pa failed at both of these.
that might be your opinion, but it doesn’t fit the criminal definition of facilitation.
I do agree that a lack of action can be very bad an incriminating and he should have taken more action and I would have done more, personally.
So we should just piss on his legacy because of speculating what his opinion of it was? I am fine with bringing it up, but purposely trying to drag his name through the dirt by using speculation just makes you an jerk and kinda trolling…
oh wait, it’s you.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
What do you mean "try and get it resolved?
How in the hell do you RESOLVE child rape? Bross you are this stupid? Seriously?
It’s less speculation than obvious conclusions. As a matter of fact, we should think about his legacy about how much he thought about helping the victims of his friend; very little
The Licensed Pessimist - January 23, 2012
No, but judging by your selective reading you are or are just back to your trolling self.
You fail to read the part where I talk about how he was reporting it to the authorities on campus in a way to “resolve” it (i.e. get someone with expertise involved in the situation)
I don’t see it as “obvious” but I guess I am stupid like everyone else and you are just Einstein.
Either that, or you are just so far mentally/emotionally invested in one side of this that you see things as more obvious than they are if they align with your views.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
I seriously don’t think you even think about the crap you type as you type it, and yet whenever you get a chance you want to call names and call people trolls.
The only way to “resolve” a rape is for the people who know about it to report it to the proper authorities.
Now, there is another concept you have a problem with. It’s not “reporting” to the police when you have a secret meeting with the people who you know are going to brush it under the rug. The whole concept of “reporting” is to go through the normal proper channels of calling 911 and having an independent officer take a…listen to this…report! That’s what “reporting to the police” mean Bross. Write it down.
Shultz and Curley weren’t proper authorities because they weren’t independent, and joe knew they weren’t going to do what they were supposed to. That’s the reason you usually hear people regularly say “proper” authorities whenever they use the term because there is a difference
Secondly what kind of “expertise” is exactly needed to “resolve” the issue in the first place? Do you even know what you mean when you say that? You keep coming up with ridiculous claims and excuse in order to alleviate Joe from knowingly conceal child abuse.
I see you’re having trouble understanding these simple concepts, but it should be hard to understand that if you cover up a crime, and ignore it for a decade, you must not care about the people hurt as a result. How difficult is that to understand?
The Licensed Pessimist - January 23, 2012
pretty much that’s only you…and that’s mostly because you call anyone who doesn’t agree with you stupid.
like I said, how is the campus police “improper”? If the campus police didn’t have the authority to be involved in this at all and be a “proper” authority, they wouldn’t be any sort of police, really…but they are.
Did he know this? You are again speculating, but this time it is using hindsight to assume Joe Pa would know specifically that this would be the outcome.
stop saying things you “know” he did…unless you were granted a secret interview with Paterno you never told anyone and he spilled his guts to you.
To be quite honest, if you really wanted to do anything than be an ass and just go around demeaning people on here, you would take a different approach. If you seriously wanted to have a rational debate with me and give any sort of attempt to change my opinion or have me think twice (which I am willing to do in situations, see: my opinion on Colt), you would be taking a different approach.
Insults, demeaning attitude, and condescension are not going to help convince anyone who disagrees with you. You are intelligent enough that I believe you do know this. What that says to me is you don’t care about the debate, but the proving that you are right.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Bross, Sandusky must have taken that kid home or where ever that night. THe kid was 10, I am thinking he did not drive there. Who knows what happen to that child after the shower incident. Isnt that the point. McQueary (who I blame first and foremost) should have called 911 and ran over and said the boy is staying with me , maybe a fight happens or whatever, but it should be instinct to save the child not call your dad and wait a day to report it to your coach.
THIS IS A GUESS… this was not an isolated known incident and Penn State football tried as TLP said,, tried to sweep it under the rug not to harm the program.
McQueary should have done whatever he could to save that kid that night and he did not, and now that needs to be answered. Joe Paterno, who taught kids about life and being a man, should have known what was being reported to him was a violent crime and the proper authorities needed to be alerted immediately. That is what a man does. To me it seems as TLP said a private meeting was held to see how they would handle this “incident” and that was to keep it quiet.
Joe Paterno knowing that Sandusky did not get into any trouble because of this incident, should either have been enraged at Curley and Schultz for not taking it further, OR if they found it to be a lie , he should have been furious at MCQueary for lying.
What happened was McQueary got promoted to a Penn State Football coaching position from graduate assistant job and Jerry Sandusky got to keep his office and had use of all of Penn State facilities. NO one paid any price. Doesn;t that sound like a cover up?? Did anyone ever ask what happened to the child?? NO
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Totally agree.
I totally agree they tried to sweep it under the rug. I just don’t agree that Joe Pa definitively knew they were going to do it and that is why he didn’t call 911 either.
I totally agree with the 3rd paragraph.
I also agree that when Joe Pa realized this, he should have done something.
I am not denying that there was a cover-up. I just don’t think it’s clear that Joe Pa was significantly involved in covering it up. That’s where i differ.
bross09 - January 24, 2012
Stop acting like you know everything about every situation in the world.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Look it was not a crime against Penn State football, it was a crime against another human being and a violent crime. Why would you even consider telling your boss. It was not a recruiting violation. Who Joe Paterno worked for was immaterial. Who Jerry Sandusy was worked for was immaterial. Joe Paterno, Mike McQueary , Mike McQueary’s father, Schultz, Curley all looked the other way and did NOT turn Sandusky in for a heinous crime. A crime against another human, not a football violation. JOE PATERNO had no more reason to tell his boss when informed about a rape than you do telling your boss. You are an adult, inform the correct authorities, the POLICE. There is no gray area.
To hesitate to turn in a friend is to turn a blind eye to the victim (THE CHILD). Paterno is no better than the Bishops that assigned the pedophile priest to another parrish instead of informing the authorites. They handled the situation in house just like Paterno did and they are completely wrong too.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
It was not a campus problem. And you dont wait. It was a Violent Crime. If you are Gary Schultz how are you not in the same cell as Sandusky? Schultz waited almost a month to have a meeting with Curley and McQueary, why are they not being fried now?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
In many places the campus police have about as much power as any other form of police.
No one ever disagreed with this. You need to take a second to calm down and process what is being written before jumping to the conclusion that everyone here is condoning child rape.
Because Gary Schultz didn’t rape anybody. He was criminally negligent and did a lot of bad things here, but they are not the same as raping someone.Not everyone agrees with the death penalty.
notthatnoise - January 23, 2012
do you?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
That’s a political argument. If you really want to know you can email me.
notthatnoise - January 24, 2012
yeah, I didn’t want to go down that road on DBN…
bross09 - January 24, 2012
Sigh.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
It happened on campus. The campus police have authority on campus. Boom.
I don’t know if you know this. People have been trying to tell you, but Campus Police often have similar authority as regular police.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
He waited two days. If a rape is reported to you by your employee it is a civic matter , not a university matter and IMMEDIATELY you report it to the POLICE. The POLICE immediately search for the harmed child to make sure nothing else happened to him. Paterno’s decision to wait was a grave error and a horrible character flaw
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Capitalizing the word police doesn’t make you any less wrong in your understanding of the Penn State University Police.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
What would you have done honestly?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
relevance to the above?
well if you, the alleged rapist, and the employee all are/have been employed by the university and it happens on university grounds, it is a university matter. They are the correct police force with the correct jurisdiction.
I don’t get how you are so critical that you are being critical of the specific police jurisdiction he went to.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
No they are not the correct jurisdiction. HE WENT TWO DAYS LATER. What could have happened to that child in the two days?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Why aren’t they the correct jurisdiction. A former (I believe it was former at the time) employee of a university brings a child there and rapes the child. It is on university property where the university is legally liable. It is reported to Joe Pa by a university employee and he himself is employed by the university. It sure seems like the campus police was at least as correct of jurisdiction as the State College Pa. Police.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
so if you work at Bank of America, who does employ on sight ex FBI agent, and you were informed of a rape of a harmless child on Bank prpoerty, DO YOU WAIT TWO DAYS TO REPORT IT OR DO YOU IMMEDIATELY CALL POLICE SO THEY CAN RUSH TO SANDUSKY’s HOUSE AND DEMAND ANSWERS?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Chirp chirp, I hear only crickets, no reply to my question
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I think people are done responding to you because you keep repeating the same inaccurate information over and over again.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
What is inaccurate?
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Do I have to repeat, again, the info on when McQueary told Joe, and the powers and jurisdictions of the Penn State University Police?
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
I dont see you saying anything to Licensed pessimist, maybe because he is correct too!
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Who I respond to and when is none of your business.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
lol nice
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
You wont respond because you wont win a fight there either. Licensed Pessimist said very eloquently what I was saying. You wont reply because you know what we both are saying is correct.
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Um he actually did reply.
emily522 - January 23, 2012
You need to stop.
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
I’m not sure you comprehend eloquence, and that certainly isn’t a slam on TLP.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
I do, and I agree with TLP as you do not
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Haha. This is even funnier when I see that you responded to my response to TLP.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
Hey doofus my orginal message was typed at 12:21 you did not respond till 12:27 and I was typing somewhere else when I sent the last text. At first you did NOT respond to TLP till I called you out on it
champion64 - January 23, 2012
I’m on your side for this thing but you’re going about it the wrong way. You look like a complete ass.
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
You’re right. I was so concerned that you called me out that I had to save face to people I don’t really know on a website relating to sports. You sure got me.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
you are wrong on this one. Paterno was a louse
champion64 - January 23, 2012
And you’re a fucking idiot. I’m done here.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
And the next time you call me doofus, please capitalize all the letters.
Dawg Nuts - January 23, 2012
ok that was funny
champion64 - January 23, 2012
or maybe I have class all day…
bross09 - January 23, 2012
haha. Sorry I had class…You’re just being an ass.
And as a response, an ex FBI agent that they employ as some sort of private security guard is not at all the same as a public university hiring licenced officers of the law and going to them. The guy could be ex FBI, but he won’t have the legal authority of a cop and therefore cannot be compared to one.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
Are you freaking serious? How many times do you have to be told? An ex FBI agent is not a current member of law enforcement. Campus police are. At my school, and it seems at Penn State, they have jurisdiction over events that happen on campus. I know at case if a sexual assault is committed on campus the university police are the authority that will be handling it.
notthatnoise - January 24, 2012
Awe hell naw! I'm outta here.
SpecialBrownie - January 23, 2012
Yeah, this thread went there.
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
I miss COTL SUCKS!!!!1
HenryDawg - January 23, 2012
Well if we draft someone else I can start on him
champion64 - January 23, 2012
Im ready to write the “Joe Pa/McCoy connection and why they are integral to DBN” piece.
The New Kardiac Kids - January 23, 2012
And shift+A. I still had over 100 comments to go before I just gave up reading the same back and forth.
Doc's Kid - January 23, 2012
I really tried not to get involved in those.
bross09 - January 23, 2012
No worries. It was bound to happen.
Brownie's Year - January 23, 2012
honestly, I would rather talk about what Joe Pa did with that program, turning it from an above average independent school to a Big 10 powerhouse. I was just bored and looked up and the last time before him they won a NC, Carnegie Institute of Technology was a football powerhouse.
Inevitably this would have come up, but imo, it has been beaten to death already.
bross09 - January 24, 2012
Chris, Mods – I hereby move to have this thread shut down.
Dawg Nuts - January 24, 2012
Aye.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2012
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