The NFL is a funny business.
Last year, Steve Spagnuolo led his Rams into Week 17 with a chance to defeat the Seahawks to claim the NFC West title. The Rams failed to get the job done, but with Sam Bradford under center, expectations seemed high heading into the quarterback's second season.
Last year, Raheem Morris led his Buccaneers to a ten-win season with a group of players who were virtually unknown. It looked like they would get a playoff spot, but there just happened to be one-too-many wildcard teams who shared the same record and owned a tiebreaker over the Buccaneers.
Today, neither of them are head coaches anymore, having had their teams put on pitiful displays during the 2011 campaign. Spagnuolo's Rams finished the year with just two victories, one of which came against the Cleveland Browns. Morris' Buccaneers started the season shaky, and then completely gave up. The Buccaneers finished the season on a ten-game losing streak. In their final eight games, they gave up the following point totals: 37, 35, 23, 38, 41, 31, 48, and 45. Ouch.
One coaching change that won't be happening as the offseason begins involves the Cleveland Browns. Whether we like it or not, Pat Shurmur will 100 percent be the team's head coach heading into next season.
How do we evaluate the job Shurmur did in his first year? I like to ask myself if there are any redeeming qualities when it comes to keeping a head coach. In other words, "is there something I can look back at on this season and say, 'Shurmur did [this] well.'?"
The Browns played well defensively, but I don't see how you can directly attribute that to the "offensive-minded" Shurmur. Shurmur was brought here to install the West Coast Offense. After 16 games, I don't see how anyone can say they were encouraged by the offense this year. The Browns scored 218 points all season. The only two teams who scored less were the Chiefs and the Rams, and they are both undergoing coaching changes.
Shurmur came under fire during the 2011 season for play calls in short yardage situations, the team's clock management, the manner in which he spoke during press conferences, his utilization of guys like Evan Moore, Jordan Norwood, and Peyton Hillis, and more.
The one thing you can attribute in Shurmur's favor is that he was dealt a bad hand to begin with. Forget the fact that he took over a team that did some positive things under former head coach Eric Mangini. When the front office decided to move on from Mangini, they knew they would be losing Rob Ryan and Brad Seeley in the process. That means the continuity from the previous season would be pretty much nil. The NFL lockout was projected to have a negative impact on teams like the Browns, who would be forced to install a new West Coast Offense and a new 4-3 defense.
The special teams unit took an immediate hit this year without Seeley. "Aces" like Blake Costanzo and Nick Sorensen were gone. Joshua Cribbs was banged up most of the season. Ryan Pontbriand went from Pro Bowler to head case. Reggie Hodges suffered a season-ending injury in training camp.
Shurmur inherited a group of receivers that were not up-to-par for NFL standards. The team drafted Greg Little, but the front office made it clear they would not seek a veteran receiver to help strengthen the unit. Shurmur was forced to work with receivers who either couldn't get separation (Brian Robiskie), had terrible ball skills (Mohamed Massaquoi), were still raw (Greg Little), or were banged up / only average (Joshua Cribbs). The best weapons provided to him for the West Coast Offense were Peyton Hillis and Brandon Jackson. Shurmur couldn't control the Hillis fiasco (to no fault of his own), and Jackson, who I would've projected to be the offensive MVP, went on injured reserve in the preseason.
Are all of these things just convenient excuses for Shurmur? I'm not trying to turn a blind eye to the negatives and sugar coat the job Shurmur did, but he could have lost the locker room numerous times this season in a worst-case scenario, especially with the "Hillis" situation. Instead, even with a backup quarterback under center for the final three weeks, I saw a team that finished the season fighting. We shouldn't have to accept mediocrity and make "battling" the new standard for success as a Browns fan, but I also appreciate the fact that I never thought, "man, this team has mailed it in," during a game this season. Browns cornerback Sheldon Brown reflected on the season on Monday by offering his vote of confidence for Shurmur heading into next season:
"I think [Shurmur] did a tremendous job dealing with being a head coach for the first time," Brown said. "Everybody thinks it’s an easy job. Everybody wants to sit in a room and say, 'I can do this better. I can do that better.' He dealt with the situations to the best of my knowledge the best he could, and he kept this football team fighting. And for me, that's how I judge a head coach. If a football team goes out there and competes their tail off week in and week out through thick and thin, which it was very thick this year, but we didn’t quit. So that tells me the leader is in place, and the guys believe in him, and they will fight for him."
This will be Shurmur's second season coming up, but it will be his first true offseason. Maybe you don't believe offseason programs make a big difference, but they could. And while the defense was the focus of the draft and free agency this past season (Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, and Dimitri Patterson), the offense will likely be the focal point this offseason. Let's see how Shurmur does with a couple of new playmakers, an offensive coordinator, and how else he improves upon his first season. If the offense looks just as bad a year from now, then we'll talk about a change at the head coaching position. Until then, we have to accept that Shurmur is "the guy" and hope for the best.
1 recs | 261 comments
For Holmgren and Shurmur, this is make or die. Another 4-6 win season and I bet Randy loses it and fires them all as Browns fans finally stop buying the product.
Johnnypronto - January 2, 2012
I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen. I don’t think I could deal with another regime change. I honestly can’t think of a different scenario which includes front office personnel that wants to be here and can be more successful than what we have. Maybe after another 3-4 years of mediocrity, but so soon? To me it would be a bigger blow to the gut to go through yet another rebuild. Ugh…Makes me nuasiated just thinking about it.
Brownsbacker488 - January 2, 2012
same here and this is just consistency for consistencies sake but more like making rash decisions over second guessed clock management skills.
Also no matter who the QB is, everything I’ve heard it takes 3 years to master the WCO. Rodgers was decent his first year but he’s nothing like what he is now so pick a guy who has potential and give that QB a few years too.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
At some point Holmgren may become interim head coach
He was always a better coach than GM
Jcrew1179 - January 2, 2012
Let’s not start this again, please?
SBP - January 2, 2012
Matt Flynn already knows the WCO so, the Browns will have to give him some serious consideration.
Brocolis154033 - January 2, 2012
He had a good game yesterday too.
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
Is he tall enough? What round was he drafted in?
SBP - January 2, 2012
Rec.
burntorangeandbrown - January 2, 2012
He knows the offense, has a decent arm, and has thrown almost half as many TDs as Colt in 1/13 the playing time.
notthatnoise - January 2, 2012
I still think we should give Flynn some serious consideration.
emily522 - January 2, 2012
we should give him consideration but not much more money than we would a rookie QB.
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
Huh? Huge difference between Green Bays weapons compared to the Browns. Thats like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Focus. We would never see Flynn’s production in ONE GAME (or a fraction of it) in the Cleveland offense. Flynn comes here, be ready for disappointment.
dirtyjoe - January 3, 2012
Greg Jennings is the only thing better about there offense outside of the quarterback. Our line is much better than theirs as well.
notthatnoise - January 4, 2012
Wow…. You’re either delusional or you’re not paying attention.
Vududawg - January 4, 2012
both
The Licensed Pessimist - January 4, 2012
Seriously? Man, this is just crazy.
burntorangeandbrown - January 4, 2012
I forgot to comment on this too. Flynn looked really good in the pocket/getting the ball out. Yeah yeah yeah one game, but I couldn’t help but think how he’d look behind our line.
emily522 - January 4, 2012
They’re missing a lot of guys on that line. I think they might be down to their 3rd string at a couple of spots.
I think we’re all looking forward to your scouting report.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
I still have to write that haha. I think I’m going to wait and see if the Browns hint at any interest first.
emily522 - January 4, 2012
I hear Heckert reads DBN.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
Dear Mr. Heckert,
I think if you give Andy Reid some Applebee’s coupons, he’ll come coach here. I know that’s a tough trade, but I’m willing to pitch in and offer you coupons for every game he wins here. How’s that for a deal?
Thanks,
Doc
Doc's Kid - January 4, 2012
Are you serious???
You think Heckert’s going to share his Applebee’s coupons?
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
That’s why I offer him coupons for every win Reid would get here. If we go undefeated for a few years, Heckert gets enough coupons to last him a week.
Doc's Kid - January 5, 2012
I would add in Jermicheal Finley.
Bernie19Kosar - January 4, 2012
Finley is an athletic freak, but overrated. Drops a ton of balls and his route running isn’t great. I had him on a fantasy team and watched him closely all year and wasn’t all that impressed.
Roger Dorn - January 4, 2012
Better than our TE’s.
Bernie19Kosar - January 4, 2012
He’s a 7th round draft pick. He’s 6’2" tall. He has two starts in his NFL career.
According to you and several other folks around here the chances that he is, or ever will be an elite QB is pretty much slim to none.
If anything, I’d say Flynn is exhibit A for the argument that having great weapons and playmakers surrounding a QB will make him (and the offense as a whole) look good. Much more so than the other way around.
burntorangeandbrown - January 3, 2012
Idk, a lot of people were saying that Green Bay’s WRs are average for the most part and that Rodgers makes them better. Plus GB lacks a strong running game as well.
emily522 - January 3, 2012
Chicken or egg?
Personally, I think if you have NFL level players, they don’t have to be superstars, they just all need to play in a system long enough to execute it as if it were second nature.
HenryDawg - January 3, 2012
I’d say average is a good term to describe them. I really like Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson, but if you take away the Rodgers factor they are probably an “average” #1 and #2 WR.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
Well, they were prolific with Flynn in there too, so there goes that theory. Green Bay has put on a clinic in nearly every game this season and you guys are seriously calling their WRs pedestrian?? They have one of the deepest WR corps in the league. Does great QB play enhance it? Obviously, but it’s a marriage, and production like that can hardly be called average. I would say their line is just as capable as ours (minus 73) and all other position groups are stronger in GB than here. To even compare their WRs to ours is an absolute joke.
Vududawg - January 4, 2012
You can’t be prolific in one game.
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
I think he meant the Packers continued their prolific season even with Flynn playing.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
Oh, apologies then.
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
And I stand by that. But he hasn’t shown us he can’t do it yet. Colt has. Flynn has thrown for over 300 yards in a game, he has shown a real flash of talent. Colt has shown poise a couple of times, but poise only helps you win games if it’s paired with talent.
notthatnoise - January 4, 2012
Exactly!! The point is not to say that Flynn’s not capable, but please let’s not go throwing a ton of money and/or draft picks on an unknown commodity – especially when there may be better options in the draft.
Vududawg - January 4, 2012
With a Superbowl winning/contending supporting cast. He did not make them better. They made him look better.
I’m just not in the “get the back-up” bandwagon.
SBP - January 3, 2012
Yeah seems like that plan fails more often than it succeeds. Hasselback and Schaub being a notable exceptions.
HenryDawg - January 3, 2012
Any plan to get a QB fails more often than it succeeds. But Matt Flynn has not shown himself to be a bad NFL QB yet, and that alone makes him more attractive to me than Colt.
notthatnoise - January 4, 2012
And does he have prototypical QB buttocks?
JustBob - January 5, 2012
So does Brett Favre, but we are not calling him. Just because they know it does not mean we should make them our starter.
SBP - January 3, 2012
So does Seneca Wallace if I’m not mistaken :-/
burntorangeandbrown - January 4, 2012
I completely agree with you Johnny. This team is no better then the team H&H inherited and yesterday all you heard was how close they were. I really hope that this is just the “Company Line” and the management knows better. Another off season of them sitting on their hands (especially when it comes to WR) in free agency and we are in the same boat next year.
GrillGuy - January 2, 2012
You agree with johnny pronto? Flag.
macdowellm03 - January 2, 2012 via Android app
I would contend that it is better – at least in terms of the roster. Early draft picks are mostly playing up to expectations. That couldn’t be said for many of the mangini picks. Let’s remember that we had all new coaches, new systems on all three sides of the ball, no one who could hold on to the ball, and our biggest offensive weapon was injured/holding out most of the year. I agree it was hard seeing them ignore F.A. WRs but who was really out there besides S. Rice who got a boatload of money (and had a poor to average season)?
Give it some time. At the very least Heckert seems good at what he does and the talent on our roster will keep improving – that’s at least 75% of the battle right there
Vududawg - January 4, 2012
No way Holmgren is going anywhere. He’s not going to get fired for one bad hire.
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
No addition of playmakers on offense – no improvement.
realmccoy - January 2, 2012
Browns are likely going DE/RT in the first round, you know it. I know it. Then we go WR/QB in rounds 2-3. Heckert has basically already said it except they may go CB instead of DE if they get the right guy.
I think Holmgren tried to tank for Luck and the Manning injury/fluke Dolphins win screwed everything up. .
Johnnypronto - January 2, 2012
That would seriously suck. Under that scenario – I would sign Desean Jackson. We got the cap room, Randy’s got the money, Shurmur’s got the connections.
realmccoy - January 2, 2012
Really? We need another whiny Braylon Edwards type? Fail.
Kosar19 - January 2, 2012
I really don’t think he is a BE type. These teams who break the bank for players who have never really won a thing in their lives should be more careful, it really pisses off the other players who are working their asses of just as much. You can pay a Brady or Manning, but Mike Vick had 1 good comeback here with the help of awesome receivers helping to make him look good, I don’t blame him for wanting part of that pie. Same thing with Buffalo.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
We have to take a chance some time. We averaged less points than a Brian Daboll coached offense. We would be adding a dynamic playmaker for free. No trade, no draft choice – free. Randy just raises some bank fee to unsuspecting college kids and he is back to even in no time. These trade downs are not working for us. We cannot continue to have more talent leave in FA than we sign. We cannot let FAs walk and then spend DCs to replace them.
realmccoy - January 2, 2012
He’s also the deep threat the Browns need. I’m not sure if any of the other FA receivers can bring that.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
I agree totally with that. You could lure Desean here with the selection of RG3. A powerful- armed quarterback who can throw deep and stretch the opponents defense.
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
Free agency happens before the draft. Desean isn’t waiting for the draft to make his choice, he is going with top dollar the first week of March.
Roger Dorn - January 4, 2012
That’s true, but if we are going to make a play for Griffin they could tell him that and use it as incentive for Jackson.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
Then spend the money and get him. He is a proven deep threat, no risking on a college player on this one. This allows up to use the 23rd pick for BPA at DE/LB/RB. First pick of second round can be a top line RT/OL.
brownsmeist - January 4, 2012
You dont want Desean Jackson. Problems Problem Problems, If he were that great philly would have signed him for more than the 600,000 grand he was playing for. He is problem in the Locker room, and wont be in Cleveland.
champion64 - January 4, 2012
I would agree with this most of the time but I’m pretty sure he got pissed that Vick got 100 million while he’s still on his rookie contract while making Vick look pretty good. Is it great that he acted like he did? Definitely not, and a player like him needs some handling but if you give him a decent contract I think he plays hard for you. He’s earned it.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
I think he was as pissed that most of the receivers on the team out earned him and was the star receiver. Steve Smith who played for the Giants and now with Philly, is making like 2 million a year and Desean is making only 600,000. I think that is bothering him more
champion64 - January 4, 2012
I don’t think anyone else in the universe “knows it”. Not even Heckert who likely already has a draft strategy laid out.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
WTF are you talking about?
TheDriveStillHurts - January 2, 2012
Do you have a link to where he said this?
Also if they believe McCoy is the real deal then I see no problem with this strategy.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
Based on…?
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
the Moon?
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?
RyanBr - January 2, 2012
Accusations of tanking are absurd, as is going DE in the 1st. With that logic we would miss out on what we need most – a playmaker – be it T-Rich, RGIII, or Blackmon.
Vududawg - January 4, 2012
Nobody except for you even thinks that.
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
who is your nomination for OC?
athensdawg - January 2, 2012
My money is that they hire Brad Childress. He is such a tool that everyone else in the organization immediately seems more charasmatic.
realmccoy - January 2, 2012
I agree about Brad Childress. One big problem this year was the coaching, and a lot of that stemmed from a first year head coach doubling as offensive coordinator. Both are full time jobs, with the OC calling plays during the game. Last year, I thought hiring Dick Jauron to coach the defense was an excellent move, and that really payed off as the Browns’ defense finished in the top 10 in the league. Get us a guy like Brad Childress as OC, and a new special teams coach, and we will see improvement right there. Then the next step is getting us a couple of viable receivers.
duke4711 - January 2, 2012
STs got a lot better through the course of the year, I wouldn’t reload there. They went from the best ST coach to a rookie and several ST specialists to Josh Cribbs and a bunch of rookies, some who probably have never played STs very much.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
i like the idea a having ex-head coaches all over our coaching staff!
athensdawg - January 2, 2012
That’s really not a bad idea, lots of x-head coaches do a helluva lot better as coordinators than as head coaches. Look at Dick LeBeau..
Jayson732 - January 2, 2012
yeah, look at what it did to the defense with jauron and ray rhodes. although i’m not clear on what rhodes does.
athensdawg - January 2, 2012
Look what Phillips did with Texans D in 1 year. Norv Turner is also a good OC/bad HC.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
The Bears have a lot of ex-head coaches on their staff. I remember an interview with Smith about if he felt threatened with his job security because of it.
Doc's Kid - January 2, 2012
Childress was available last year. Why didn’t we make that choice then. If they really wanted him they already could have hired him.unless Childress said no or maybe nex year and that’s why they did not make the hire.
SBP - January 2, 2012
Usually there’s not a lot of advantage to them taking another job right away because he’s probably still getting paid by Minny
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
True. That makes sense if that was case.
SBP - January 2, 2012
Wasn’t the browns D the worst defense in the league against the run?
Brocolis154033 - January 2, 2012
If they weren’t, it sure seemed that way.
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
Brad Childress is bad ju-ju. He is not a good idea for an OC. All I heard from Viking fans was they wished he would be fired. I think Jim Zorn would be a great fit.
OldTimeDawg - January 2, 2012
Would we take 2 WRs in 1st round or is that stupid.
Irish Brown - January 2, 2012
Umm…stupid…
Kosar19 - January 2, 2012
That’s stupid. Receivers are too volatile, you can’t waste both first rounders only hoping one will be a #1 if you’re lucky. Plus there isn’t an AJ Green can’t-miss WR prospect in this draft.
ahowie - January 2, 2012
Free agency then or more 2nd rounders.
Irish Brown - January 2, 2012
That’s fine, Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown are 3rd and 6th rounders and you can find speed later in the draft if you trust them to catch. Personally I would still like to see C. Mitchell on the field some more. I think his 3 catches on 4 targets with 2 first downs is pretty good for little playing time over 2 games. The fact that he actually runs a route past the sticks is encouraging.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
Blackmon is pretty darn close, but yeah 2 WRs is something Matt Millen would do.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
I think Blackmon is an excellent prospect.
S.NM.Brown - January 2, 2012
Love Blackmon – one of the best college WRs I have ever seen. In college he can’t be covered, and really plays hard. Physical downfield blocker. Plays like he is 6-3. But then you get the actual measureables and you compare him to like a Megatron or Andre Johnson and he just doesn’t stack up physically. If he runs below a 4.5 – I am all in on this guy – if not – maybe grab the Baylor kid with the 2nd first rounder.
realmccoy - January 2, 2012
I probably haven’t seen as much of Blackmon as you, but if I think a college WR is that great, why should it matter what his 40 is if he is horrifically awful (mid 4.5s or higher) for his draft position. Does he look fast on tape? Does he get open downfield? these are more important imo than whether he runs a 4.49 compared to a 4.51.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
Exactly right. Also – had to chuckle when I read your comment…
A.J. Green ran the 40 twice in the combine – his times were 4.49 and 5.51 :-/
burntorangeandbrown - January 2, 2012
I didn’t catch that. Right under and right over 4.5 flat. Just showing that whether a guy is “over 4.50” or “under 4.50” is pretty arbitrary and small factors and one misstep can create a .02 second difference in these players.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
Also there are several different timers, none of which I think are that great.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
You don’t consider Blackmon a can’t miss?
macdowellm03 - January 2, 2012 via Android app
Hell no. I think he’s a shorter Dez Bryant.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 2, 2012
Size means very little
macdowellm03 - January 2, 2012 via Android app
That’s not true. WR Performance isn’t contingent on size, but it helps. The same way it’s not contingent on speed, but it’s one the measuring tools.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 2, 2012
Did you watch the sports science on Blackmon? He has a larger catch radius than Plaxico Burress.
notthatnoise - January 2, 2012
Dude is good, no denying that. I wouldn’t mind having him.
The Licensed Pessimist - January 2, 2012
Have you seen Calvin Johnson play?
Brocolis154033 - January 2, 2012
Calvin Johnson and Justin Blackmon are not the same person. Size means a different amount to different players. By the way Calvin Johnson is a physical freak.
macdowellm03 - January 3, 2012 via Android app
Justin Blackmon at #4....Malcom Floyd at #24ish(from Falcons)
Major Upgrade to the position and would make a QB drool with anticipation in the offseason.
allsides - January 3, 2012
by far our greatest need. I don’t know if Floyd lasts that long, though. They both block very well, catch with their hands, break tackles, are physically ready for the NFL, and have more than one year of success at the collegiate level.
allsides - January 3, 2012
Our greatest need is a quarterback
champion64 - January 3, 2012
He needs someone to throw to though…officially around 40 drops in one season, and probably more like +50.
allsides - January 3, 2012
If we had 20 interceptions i might agree, but how about Tannehil in round two?
allsides - January 3, 2012
taking a guy in round 2 who was a RB/WR until this past year? No thanks. Take a QB high or don’t expect great things. The success rate for QBs drops exponentially the lower in the draft you go.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
taking a guy in round 2 who was a RB/WR until this past year? No thanks. Take a QB high or don’t expect great things. The success rate for QBs drops exponentially the lower in the draft you go.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
I think Tannehill will be good. This years Dalton.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
because they will end up being good? because they are completely different QBs. The guy I think could be this year’s Dalton (if there is a later round guy who does well) is Kirk Cousins. In the right system (with competent weapons and protection), he could be really good.
bross09 - January 4, 2012
Yeah I’m not comparing styles but just unhyped guy who will go high first, early second who could have some first year success.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
I just don’t see it with Tannehill. I don’t think he played in a pro style offense and this was really his first year full time at QB. He is a project guy I think. The guys who usually have early success are more polished.
I honestly don’t get exactly why Cousins is considered by some to be a mid-rounder. He doesn’t wow you, but outside of when you get a lot of pressure in his face (his glaring weakness), he doesn’t have huge holes in his game. He reminds me a lot in this way of maybe a better Sanchez who could do well with a great supporting cast.
bross09 - January 4, 2012
Read the scouting on him. It is not so glowing. There are some holes in his game.
SBP - January 3, 2012
He doesn’t throw a lot of INTs because he doesn’t make down field throws very often.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
True. Colt is not getting the Browns to a Super Bowl. Lets end the line of crappy QBs and finally get one with an arm. Thinking back, who was the last strong armed qb we’ve had? Brian Sipe? Testeverde? There are two worthy picks to select in top 15-20. Lets get one.
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
Derrick Anderson. Arm isn’t everything but it helps a lot.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
I don’t think Floyd is that great. He is a nice player, but probably will never be a #1. he doesn’t have any glaring weaknesses, but he doesn’t really stand out honestly.
I really think that Little will end up being a better pro WR than Floyd…especially if he improves his drop problems.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
Blackmon will probably be gone before we pick at 4. But that should be our next QB. RG3
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
I was at game yesterday….and Cribbs as a WR looks flat out GOOD. Time to get him more involved…
Kosar19 - January 2, 2012
Definitely one of his best games and he’s been nursing that groin all year.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
We’ve been trying for 4 years.
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
the routes he is effective running though are somewhat limited and he can’t be used in every situation.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
Well, he’s not supposed to be playing WR1.
JustBob - January 5, 2012
he isn’t though. He hasn’t really been the #1 for any significant point this season. Its always #2 or #3.
bross09 - January 5, 2012
OT: Shaping up to be another awesome bowl season for the B1G
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
Thankfully this B1G figurehead is gone…Go Sparty…Eff that team up north…
Kosar19 - January 2, 2012
If only Joe Pa and mcqueary were on the field for their loss to a C-USA squad
bross09 - January 2, 2012
What a win for MSU. And OSU… I’m over it. The coaching staff from that game won’t even be here next season, aside from Fickell (and maybe some others?).
emily522 - January 2, 2012
MSU saves the day, a bit. OSU is like the Browns – just waiting for a couple more years. At least with OSU there’s some recent history to cling to.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
That effort by OSU today was terrible.
I can’t put into words how excited I am to get rid of that offensive coaching staff.
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
Exactly.
emily522 - January 2, 2012
bye bye Bollman…good riddance to ya.
dirtyjoe - January 3, 2012
The one bone I always had to pick with Tressel/Bollman was over the offensive play calling. They were always too conservative and predictable. I’ll never forget hearing the SoCal defensive players saying after they beat us that everything they saw on the field was what they saw on tape. There were no surprises. Nothing new and unexpected.
dawgtribe - January 3, 2012
I didn’t even care what the result was going to be. I’m so psyched about next year.
dawgtribe - January 3, 2012
I’m watching the rose bowl to watch Three specific players, james, toon, and monte ball. Monte ball is impressing me so far.
lightninmcqueen - January 2, 2012 via mobile
I would love to pick up toon in the third round, if he lasts that long. Probably gone in the second
The Licensed Pessimist - January 2, 2012
Those UO helmets are pretty sweet
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
I would wear one of those around the house.
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
haha
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
do you a clue as to where he would go?
athensdawg - January 2, 2012
I’d love tohave either James or Ball in the second, both great runners. Toon is okay. I think that other number 4 guy was better
lightninmcqueen - January 2, 2012 via mobile
Ball is probably going to be early-mid 2nd unless he runs 4.5 or below (thinking he will run a bit slower than that) and shows more athleticism than advertised.
James is probably 2nd/3rd round. Not very big, but boy is he fast.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
Talking about wide receivers, do you think there’s a chance the Browns sign Vincent Jackson next year?
abock15 - January 2, 2012
I highly doubt it.
Doc's Kid - January 2, 2012
No chance to old
Irish Brown - January 2, 2012
Again…no need for douche bags in the Braylon mold…
Kosar19 - January 2, 2012
Vincent Jackson is a hundred times the player that Braylon is. I also don’t see how he is a douche. He’s gotten in trouble with the law, but what has he done to call him a douche?
TheDriveStillHurts - January 2, 2012
I hope for everyone’s sake we don’t get worse next year.
Roger Dorn - January 2, 2012
Really? Can it get any worse? No way to go but UP!
Kosar19 - January 2, 2012
There are three teams that did worse than us this year, it is possible.
notthatnoise - January 2, 2012
That’s just in draft order, we’re better than Jax and TB also
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
It’s very, very possible.
Simmsinns - January 2, 2012
Very likely if we start a rookie QB.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
Teams that committed to rookie QBs in preseason and started rookie QBs throughout the year in the last two season:
Rams 2010 — 7-9, a good season considering where they started from.
Bengals 2011 — 9-7 (and playoffs) a season beyond expectations for sure, and must be considered a success.
Newton 2011 — 6-10, a good season considering expectations and definitely better than us.
TheDriveStillHurts - January 2, 2012
I know, and that would be great, but I wouldn’t get upset if we started a rookie and only won 3 games (like Payton Manning) as long as they show something.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
if we get that kind of rookie QB season, we would have to be extremely unlucky, extremely poorly coached, or seriously regress on D not to win 5+ games.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
I really think the biggest problem this team had was just learning a new system. Too many times they weren’t on the same page or they were over thinking decisions that needed to be made much more quickly. I don’t have a problem with this at all. I think once they all figure it out and get on the same page they’ll automatically be playing much faster. They’ll also be playing in a system where they can target specific players to plug and play, unlike Denver and Carolina where they’re making short term gains by adapting their schemes to their players. It’s easier at first but there’s no long term gain to simplifying an offense. You could see the defense start to figure it out near the end of the year and you would expect that they would learn the new system faster than the offense. They also have more talent. I think it will be another year or two but we’ll significantly better than where we started.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
I noticed that Ben threw the ball to spots yesterday and the receivers would cut to the ball at the correct time. I hope we do this over time, as the players get comfortable.
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
If you noticed. The times when our offense looked “better” was when we had an effective running game. The running game helped keep the defense from pinning their ears back and coming full force. Our Offensive line is not good enough to handle that type of pressure, and McCoy is not comfortable enough in the new offense to handle it either.
A healthy and sane Hillis would do wonders this next year. If he does not want to get his head on straight…Let him look for greener pastures and draft a RB and keep Jackson & Ogbonnaya.
PLUS…Lets shore up that O-Line. Poor McCoy looks like he’s tap dancing out there, ready to run for his life.
If H&H have lost faith in Colt….do what it takes to get Luck or RGIII….i think both may end up special.
southbound - January 3, 2012
This just says to me you’re okay with the Browns remaining mediocre. And in two or three years, if we make the playoffs and lose, at least we’re progressing, right? This mentality just has to go if the Browns will ever be anything. He said, Carolina adapting their schemes? Have you seen the Panthers play? Cam is the real deal, he can throw the football and make all the NFL throws, plus he is a run threat. Steve Smith, who was left for dead, had the best year of his career. And they can put up points, alot of them. Why do we have to wait another 2 yrs? Didn’t the Bengals pick before us last draft and they are in the playoffs THIS yr and with a rookie QB.
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
I’m actually one of the people who thinks we need to draft RG3, and trade up to do it if we need to, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that I think we should stay mediocre.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
Don’t get me wrong. Just tired of rebuilding year after year. We need to make that jump this year if only to an 8-8 or 9-7 season. The Bengals just proved it can be done. To his credit, Shumur has the pass defense playing great, but the run defense is weak. I’m here in NC. Watching Cam make throws is mesmorizing at times. It comes out like a bullet. The elite teams have a QB who can throw a bullet. Thats all I want for us.RG3 is a great pick who I think can finally make the difference in the AFC North.
brownsmeist - January 4, 2012
We lost 9 of our last 10, WE BLOW and it isn’t going to magically turn around next year
champion64 - January 2, 2012
You’re right, magic will definitely not be involved in any turn around.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
Too bad we don’t have Harry Potter as our QB. Although if we did I would probably stop rooting for the Browns.
Brownsbacker488 - January 2, 2012
Are you more a fan of Malfoy’s play?
Adrock2099 - January 2, 2012
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Brownsbacker488 - January 2, 2012
Which makes this even funnier to me.
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
Because I don’t know about Harry Potter characters? I suppose.
Brownsbacker488 - January 2, 2012
jonnyphoenix - January 2, 2012
I can’t stay away from this site. I’m a DBN addict. Especially when Chris posts about my all-season favorite topic.
The idea that the team didn’t quit on the coach needs to be tempered, I think. The team has a good idea that he was coming back next year. Not until the players knew that our previous coach was out, did they quit.
Shurmur seemed very excited about his offseason plan on the radio yesterday.
I haven’t heard our previous coaches really mention it before.
Hopefully it will work out.
If the team can’t hit 6 wins or more next year, I still think that there is a 25-30% chance that Lerner flips a bit and demands somebody to be fired.
4-12, 5-11, 5-11, 4-12 isn’t pretty.
P.S. The flying plastic bags got some solid cheers yesterday. Not a half stadium cheer like Touchdown Squirrel, but multi-section attention.
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
Whats’s the record before the first 4-12? 10-6 i believe….. What if we did that next year! that’s be weird
lightninmcqueen - January 2, 2012 via mobile
The smell of playoff priority tix would be in the air!!!
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
Sorry, but what station was that interview on? I would like to listen to it if they have it archived.
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
WMMS right after the game. I think it was S’s after game presser.
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
P.S. Was listening to it on drive home from the game so it was right after.
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
Sweet thanks!
HenryDawg - January 2, 2012
Yep, says he has the offseason squared off by the day.
SpecialBrownie - January 2, 2012
I would bet that Lerner doesn’t even know this season is over.
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
lol! Do you think he’ll watch the Super Bowl, assuming Aston-Villa is off that day of course?
tribe71 - January 2, 2012
And what I mean by it is that Lerner is about hands-off as an owner can be.
There is no way Shurmur is going to be fired next season. The is Holmgren’s operation now.
Bernie19Kosar - January 2, 2012
Agreed. Barring some critical error on Shurmur’s part, I’d say he’s got two more years to show what he can do. At least, that’s the chance he should get.
dawgtribe - January 3, 2012
Aston Lerner got their asses beat by Swansea yesterday. hahahaha
Les Fleurs Du Mal - January 3, 2012
Lerner doesn’t even know the season is over. LOL Best line this year!
champion64 - January 2, 2012
Maybe the owner should be fired I love to own a piece of the browns!
Suppa Bob - January 3, 2012
Not gonna argue that one. If we go 5-11 or 4-12 in 2012, Shurmur may be at least somewhat on the hotseat.
bross09 - January 2, 2012
I rec’ed for admitting you were an addict.
Roger Dorn - January 2, 2012
Aren’t we all? Welcome to DBN Anonymous.
Brownsbacker488 - January 2, 2012
I see a lot of people saying “don’t sign (insert major talent), he’s got a bad attitude! We need character guys.”
“Character guys” are getting us 3-6 wins a year.
1 or 2 bad apples in a locker room full of good guys are not going to kill the team, but they might win us a game or two.
King Tony - January 3, 2012
The caveat with this point is make sure a talented player’s issue really isn’t their character, per se, but rather their work ethic. No GM wants to sign the next Haynesworth, who completely mails it in after he gets paid. But I can deal with the prima donna types as long as they back it up. I don’t have a problem with a player who says, “I need the ball more because I’m the best weapon you have.”
M.J.D. - January 3, 2012
I have a problem with it when it starts making the QB question his actions on the field, they have enough to deal with without having a whiny WR in his ear bugging him.
HenryDawg - January 3, 2012
Sure, but as long as the QB doesn’t have the same demeanor as Charlie “The Doormat” Frye, I don’t think it would be an issue. Besides, there’s got to be some middle ground between being a Terrel Owens type prima donna and being a non-speaking, “team” guy, right?
M.J.D. - January 3, 2012
absolutely
HenryDawg - January 3, 2012
Prima donna or not, I’d love to see Colt with his first option open sometimes, rather than having to run the Sam Bradford Checkdown Offense every play. I still don’t think it’s time for a big-time WR, but a medium-time one would be great.
dabooo - January 3, 2012
Did you consider that the offense might be designed that way?
notthatnoise - January 4, 2012
The locals had that conversation last year when the Rams’ O was so stagnant. From watching Bradford as well as Colt and from my admittedly limited understanding of the WCO, it looked like receiver quality was part of the issue. When Bradford was able to get his guy deep he went deep. Separation was an issue in St Louis, just like in CLE.
dabooo - January 4, 2012
Maybe they don’t run or call good routes? I’m curious why you don’t think we would want a big time WR? but a medium one is OK. What determines when you get a big time receiver and shouldn’t that be all the time?
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
yeah. his best weapon was Amendola who was a slot guy who rarely went deep. Danario Alexander was the only real deep threat they had (Laurent Robinson is also somewhat of a slot guy, though a speedier one like a mike Thomas).
bross09 - January 4, 2012
I seriously doubt that offenses are built specifically to checkdown to the RB. That seems very far fetched. What makes more sense is that younger QBs check down more often.
Roethlisberger had about 14 less completions to RBs/FBs in his 2nd year while completing the same amount of passes. Drew Brees cut his completions to RBs about in half from his 2nd year starting to his 3rd year.
The idea that QBs checkdown less the more experience they get isn’t foreign and is a more logical explanation that a “checkdown offense”
bross09 - January 4, 2012
Chilly is coming – book it. How sure are we it’s a good idea that Chilly work under his old subordinate? Will Shurmur then take more responsibility for Colt? His strength is definitely in coaching up QBs.
dabooo - January 3, 2012
That’s an interesting question. I wasn’t aware that Shurmur worked under Childress. But I don’t think it would be an issue. A similar situation occured in Dallas where Wade Phillips hired former Cowboys coach Dave Campo as a DB coach. That had to be weird as some of the guys on the team were around when Campo was in charge. But they seemed to do alright. As long as the former boss knows his responsibilities and his boundaries, and doesn’t overstep either of them, I imagine coaches have no problem with that sort of situation.
How close is Childress to being a done deal, though? Is he gonna be in the running for any of the vacancies that are popping up these days?
M.J.D. - January 3, 2012
I would give Shurmur 2 more years unless it just looks awful this year. He had no offensive talent to work with this year
And is everyone giving up Colt already?
TheRealSlimShady - January 3, 2012
A lot of people here are done with Colt.
And Brady Quinn still sucks.
Brownie's Year - January 3, 2012
Thanks.
TheRealSlimShady - January 3, 2012
A few of us, myself included, think Colt needs some bigger playmakers around him. That said, I’m not against drafting a QB if he looks like a franchise guy for years to come. I just think Colt deserves a full offsesason and better talent around him before saying he’s not an NFL QB.
The main reason you don’t see too many of us commenting about this still is because there are less of us now than before and the whole discussion is incredibly played out by this point. It’s not worth retreading a whole debate.
Doc's Kid - January 3, 2012
I don’t think they want to tip their hand on the QB situation in Cleveland. Less is more right now, especially with the draft around the corner.
dirtyjoe - January 3, 2012
Sorry, I like Colt too, but he is not the franchise guy. I’d trade him on draft day to see if we can get at least a 3rd round pick to add an offensive or defensive lineman.
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
I’m not saying he’s necessarily a franchise guy. I just think we have too many holes elsewhere for us to potentially repeat the whole QB reboot again. Like I said above, if it looks like a franchise QB is available, grab him. If not, I think Colt is fine as a stop-gap QB while we improve the rest of the team. If Colt improves, lucky us. If not, our team has still improved drastically elsewhere.
Doc's Kid - January 4, 2012
He’s had 21 starts. I am in favor of starting the season with him (if we don’t get Flynn in FA) and possibly drafting a QB high. Replace him maybe if he still sucks but give him another chance. I just don’t have much hope and don’t think the FO should put all their eggs in the Colt basket.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
Flynn had one great game on a great team. Can’t see hoping Cassel, I mean Flynn, is not just that.. a great backup. Earl Morrell thinks Flynn could be a starting QB. You have a chance of getting a franchise guy in the draft if we don’t blow it again, Right Tim Couch?
brownsmeist - January 3, 2012
I think Flynn can be Cassel. I just don’t think Cassel is anything more than an above average starting QB with the right supporting cast.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
A new coach always gets a free year. Having said that I don’t think there was much that Shumur could have done much worse in his first year. The buck stops pretty much at the head coach and the product on the field, especially the offense, was terrible. And this in a year where we played some of the worst teams in the NFL.
This is how I see it. I think Shurmur took the playbook he has been working on until he makes head coach down off the shelf and blew the dust off. “Now I can do it my way!” He thought.
He ran those plays without looking at all at the current players and their abilities to execute said plays. You aren’t going to be able to completely transform your team in one year—especially with little off-season. You have to employ some transition to a new system that accounts for your current player pool and their strengths and weakness. This is where I fault Shurmur. He knew that his off-season was short, that he had players picked for and used to another system. This would have been a time to maybe modify the current system… come up with a hybrid but he did not do this. We see other coaches do this kind of thing all the time. The good ones are able to tailor their systems to the talent on the field and bring out the best in players. Shurmur did not do this at all. He coached most of the players he was given down and the result of this was obvious to all who watched the games.
Myself, I don’t think guys should be given multiple years to prove they are bad. Good players and coaches make you believers out of the gate and you can’t wait to see what they’ll do next year.
Brownsyup - January 3, 2012
BTW… good article Chris.
Brownsyup - January 3, 2012
Shurmur ran average plays at best this year. It’s not his fault no one on the field could read defenses or catch a ball.
Brownie's Year - January 3, 2012
Actually at the start of the shortened pre-season they said the playbook was modified since most of the starters didn’t know the system and they would expand the playbook as the players became more comfortable in it.
I think there are a couple of key things that hurt us to start the season – not having a punter in the first game set a bad tone for the year, and not having Tony Pashos and Eric Steibach had Colt running for his life the first few games. It doesn’t seem like he ever really recovered from that even when the line play improved.
HenryDawg - January 3, 2012
10 of the games played this year were against top 10 defenses. Only two games were against bottom 10 defenses. The weak schedule argument just doesn’t fly. Not trying to argue our offense was good, just saying…
bbstirrd - January 4, 2012
So why did I take so much shit when I said 6 games ago there is no way Shurmur and the front office aren’t looking for a quarterback and Colt McCoy isnt the answer? Why did I take so much crap?
champion64 - January 3, 2012
Because you said that and Colt is short over and over. Different perspectives aren’t bad. Repetitive statements that don’t add anything after being said the first time get annoying. At least, that’s why I thought you got pounced on whenever you said it.
Doc's Kid - January 3, 2012
I look at it that no one wanted it to be true. Was anything I said wrong? As soon as I said it, it was pounced on, just like my take on RG3 and that the Browns will not select him. I got pounced on, so when I say why I feel that way to everyone that disagrees it seems repetitive. COLT MCCOY is as I said a Ty Detmer type of quarterback and wont take this team anywhere. MOST did not want to hear it. I was penalized for saying what no one wanted to admit. He is too short and too weak of an arm to win in the NFL.
champion64 - January 3, 2012
Doc’s Kid thanks for your response, I hear your point
champion64 - January 3, 2012
Every single one of your post used to consist of this. It did get annoying and you pretty much slowed down on that.
Brownie's Year - January 3, 2012
I wouldn’t take offense to people disagreeing with you on a fan-blog. Take it easy. Also, the ALL CAPS gets kind of annoying too.
Dawg Nuts - January 4, 2012
Initially I think people disagreed, then you beat them over the head with it, then you stepped back and left it alone for awhile, then people started to agree, then you started beating them over the head with it again. It’s the internet people have short tempers and short attention spans.
They aren’t going to want to hear the same thing over and over. That’s why you should just stick it in your sig and only comment on it every 2 to 3 weeks.
Villeslgr - January 4, 2012
OK Maybe a good idea. Although I think we wont need to talk about it much next year.
champion64 - January 4, 2012
Someone could talk about the weather and you would turn it into Colt sucks. A lot of people said let’s see how the rest of the season plays out, and you would respond with Colt sucks. Now the rest of the season has played out and perspectives have changed. I used to skip reading your posts because they were repetative, but now since you have more than one point to make, people won’t ignore you, and you contribute to the discussion. (From a lurker who reads almost everything on this site.)
VolkovNB - January 3, 2012 via mobile
I agree with you now that Colt is probably not the answer, but it’s more about the way you put your point and the frequency (or repetitiveness) of it.
I didn’t completely disagree with you then and am more towards that side now, but I was just annoyed that it was like the only thing we would hear from you. Glad to talk to you about other subjects.
bross09 - January 3, 2012
First of all, you’re still wrong. A broken record is bad enough. When the recording continues stubbornly spouting nonsense and claiming it to be absolute fact it makes it becomes almost unbearable.
burntorangeandbrown - January 3, 2012
But I was right. You weren’t. McCoy blows
champion64 - January 4, 2012
Ok so you think Colt McCoy is tall enough? Does he have a strong enough arm? Does he see the field well enough? Did he move this football team? What did I miss that you see? You just dont like hearing the obvious. People had no problem over and over saying Shurmur is an idiot, he is clueless, he should not be the coach of this team. I Heard that over and over and over and still hear it constantly, but no one bitches at that. Point is the bleeding heart fans that beleive the propaganda spewed about Colt McCoy and his heart is a feel good story, but the facts are he is NOT good enough to move this team. So control yourselves about Shurmur it gets repetitive and ridiculous. He is more competent at his job than McCoy, but oh wait Colt McCoy has passion and a heart. YOU SHOULD WANT A BETTER QUARTERBACK. I dont think I am wrong when the coach would not even name him the starting quarterback of the Browns for next year over a journeyman 5’8" quarterback Seneca Wallace. Wallace blows. He is not a competent starter and for McCoy not to be named as the quarterback the team will be built around says HE FRIGGIN BLOWS, which makes me right, not wrong.
champion64 - January 4, 2012
Yes we do.
Brownie's Year - January 4, 2012
I bitch about that a lot actually.
bross09 - January 4, 2012
In fact most of those people get run off pretty quickly, presumably to places where Shurmur bashing is more accepted.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
Or most fans wanted to give the guy a decent shot to see what we have.
Bernie19Kosar - January 4, 2012
A little off topic here but by the draft things will be all turned upside down and who knows what this team will be looking at. I think we are all just tired of friggin losing. I am trusting in Shurmur right now.
champion64 - January 4, 2012
why start this? Honestly, I think you were the only person who seemed to want to start an argument with what c64 said above. I don’t completely agree, but I am not gonna argue semantics of whether or not colt is definitively the answer.
bross09 - January 4, 2012
Oh, I have no plans on starting any arguments. I’d say c64 has already received what he asked for.
burntorangeandbrown - January 4, 2012
Hey we are good. We all like to mix it up a bit. I am still in the Trade all we got to get LUCK. Doesn’t mean it will happen or you have to agree, I just loathe the thought of struggling with McCoy.
champion64 - January 4, 2012
No worries. I think most of us around here have had to change their tone or style a bit at some point along the way, myself included. In the end we’ll all be one big screaming mob on board the same train once the Browns win the AFC Championship on their way to the Super Bowl, which is going to happen one way or another, and sooner than later.
burntorangeandbrown - January 5, 2012
I’d say
is a bit incendiary, but you may have not meant that.bross09 - January 4, 2012
His comments have been consistently and annoyingly incendiary. My response was a rebuke, not a provocation or argument. He needed to hear it, along with the rest of the criticisms he received. His opinions aren’t the definitive truths that he presents them as.
He is the one who started this little thread by reverting to his broken record routine, not me.
burntorangeandbrown - January 5, 2012
that’s where you and I disagree. He had taken many comments like that and worked to change his tune recently.
bross09 - January 5, 2012
Yes, he had changed his tune – up until this latest outburst.
burntorangeandbrown - January 5, 2012
he has had some outbursts since, but the one you are referencing isn’t even bad enough imo to be called an “outburst”.
bross09 - January 5, 2012
Whatever. Just look at the litany of responses he’s gotten. Mine is the one you’ve chosen to pick on because I’m a McCoy supporter. Go find someone else to argue with. This is ridiculous.
burntorangeandbrown - January 5, 2012
not at all. like I believe I said above, most people didn’t react as negatively as you did.
I really don’t feel like arguing it but you really feel like just taking potshots at c64. What’s ridiculous is that you couldn’t just help yourself and had to include comments like
multiple times I have had comments that I felt like would end this, but you kept continuing it…and you call this ridiculous?
I’m done.
bross09 - January 5, 2012
Music to my ears.
burntorangeandbrown - January 6, 2012
You took so much crap because you wouldn’t shut up about it. I agree with you for crying out loud and I can’t wait until you shut up.
notthatnoise - January 4, 2012
I was right
champion64 - January 4, 2012
lol
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
I am glad you laughed, you say the humor in it all. REC!
champion64 - January 4, 2012
I literally laughed out loud at your lol…what have you started?!?!?!?!?
bross09 - January 4, 2012
It was funny. HenryDawg cracks me up
champion64 - January 4, 2012
You know, I’ve never once seen you type the words “in my opinion.” That may help every once in awhile.
Dawg Nuts - January 4, 2012
I know I am not perfect. Honestly, I wish Colt McCoy would prove me wrong, I would have to eat crow and we would win.
champion64 - January 4, 2012
I wouldn’t push the crow on you, but you got to at least eat a nasty raven.
Brownie's Year - January 4, 2012
I hate Raven
champion64 - January 4, 2012
You should, they give you herpes.
HenryDawg - January 4, 2012
I have to live with the morons. I dont think the Ravens are going anywhere. Sad as it is the Steelers may be the best AFC team, followed by the Patriots, but the AFC is weak compared to the NFC
champion64 - January 4, 2012
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