Dawgs By Nature

Quit reading there. Whether or not you believe Colt McCoy could one day develop into an excellent quarterback, or even a decent one, you can not argue that he is right now.

I want Colt to succeed as much as just about anyone who isn’t a UT fan and I am generally optimistic…but I can’t convince myself he is even a decent QB right now.

bross09 - January 17, 2012 reply

This. I wont try to speculate what the answer is right now at QB, but I think a 2nd player at least needs to come in to push McCoy to do better (Wallace doesnt count and probably is gone).

That’s if you want to go with the crowd and believe that McCoy totally blows and doesn’t deserve a chance to be a starter anymore, and our O line is some great unitbesides two players, and our WR are bomb diggitity. I am going against the crownd, want to trade out of #4 especially if it is RGIII there, get my extra pick(s) and add more talent to both sides of the ball – and add some quality with time left through FA – No more one or two years left players.

J. W. - January 18, 2012 reply

Just because we’ve seen piss poor QBs here in the past doesnt mean every QB competition is a “crowd.” RGIII should- if hes coming as many people advertise, claim the starting role almost instantly. Matt Flynn would probably claim the starting role instantly. But theres a difference from putting them #1 and them earning #1. BQ, DA, even Colt were all just given the reigns, and we’ve all seen how awful they have been.

BTW- the WRs are “bomb diggitty?” We need to upgrade there, but a QB is more important to find if you have question marks about the one you have.

Well, Matt Flynn can claim to be a quality starter (like Wallace) but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is (also like Wallace). I’m still just not convinced by anything that I’ve read about Flynn.

Sorry for your misinterpretation, I meant it as earn the starter not just say he is the starter.

I got what you were saying. I was just being a bit tongue in cheeky while saying that I haven’t been impressed enough by anything that I’ve read about Flynn to think he would be a better choice than RG3.

JustBob - January 19, 2012 reply

You have to drop this “me against the world” mentality. Most people here don’t think McCoy totally blows, just that his ceiling is low and he probably won’t get there anyway. All that has been said about our line is that they were pretty average in pass protection. Everyone agrees our receivers are pretty bad. If you want to argue for a different position be my guest, but at least pretend to have read what others are saying.

you don’t have to think our O-Line is some great unit and our WRs are bomb diggity to want another QB.

i don’t think there are many people saying that mccoy “totally blows”, but this idea that he deserves the starting spot or is owed the reins to the offense is preposterous. he was not a good quarterback in 2011, and he has not shown enough promise as a quarterback to warrant an entire off season spent entrenching him as the starter.

he’s more than welcome to have a chance to compete for the starting job, but the quarterback spot, like virtually every other slot on the team, should be looked at as an opportunity to upgrade.

I can talk myself into Colt being serviceable and that he won’t actively blow games. That’s about it.

Legoman0721 - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

Are these actual stats about the offensive line or are these made up? Our line really isn’t that awful. It’s been said a million times around here lately. I wouldn’t complain if our draft turned out this way, but this isn’t the Couch era with a good QB and a historically terrible line.

Legoman0721 - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

He’s just blowing smoke.

I thought John Gotti was dead

there’s only one QB worth trading up to and that would be at #1. That is worth the shot of trading picks for. Anything else is NOT worth it.

J. W. - January 18, 2012 reply

If Holmgren and Heckert believe RG3 is worth trading up for, I’ll go with their opinion over yours.

Trading up to #2 seems silly. The Rams and Khalil seem like a natural pairing given how many sacks they gave up this year, so it would surprise me to see any team get them to leave the second slot. Now Minnesota, they worry me a little.

ouched - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

The reason is to block Washington or Miami from trading into that spot.

which if our front office is smart, they would have already called Allen/Shanney, and who the heck is over at miami, and make a deal that is just a little bit less expensive than eith St. Louis or Minny is asking. These other teams would be smart to work it that way.

J. W. - January 18, 2012 reply

Our deal should be less expensive just because they only drop 2 spots and can still take Kalil, Blackmon or Claiborne.

I think what this guy actually meant was us making a deal less expensive to Miami or Washington for them to trade into our spot.

i’m banking on flynn going to one of those teams and the other making a legitimate run at peyton manning…

this please

I wonder if the Browns would consider trading for Ryan Mallett? Not good mobility, so maybe not a good fit for west coast offense. But he’s got other qualities which could translate well in the division. Drafting Blackmon for a good target would help, too.

NM Dawg - January 17, 2012 reply

The athleticism wouldn’t be that big of an issue as long as he can move well and be quick within the pocket. He ran a lot of concepts we run at Arkansas. I still question his accuracy and intangibles a little.

rufio - January 17, 2012 reply

Yes, I wouldn’t want Derek Anderson 2. I’m still holding out hope that Colt will work out, in any event, but am aware that he’s got some size and strength limitations that might prove insurmountable. I think I recall Shurmer commenting on how he wanted Colt to stay in the pocket more, and I think a size guy like Mallett would succeed better in that scenario.

NM Dawg - January 17, 2012 reply

Plus there’s that cocaine addiction that Mallet has to deal with.

I heard it got so bad he was snorting lines at halftime of games.

Dawg Nuts - January 17, 2012 reply

He threw last minute interceptions because he was jonesing for a line and couldn’t get a time out.

That was LaMicheal James*

You’re thinking of Rick James

Brownie's Year - January 17, 2012 reply

No, LaMicheal James is also a crackhead*

(Note the asterisk. I have no evidence of his abuse of crack, but I believe if I mention it enough, he will fall to the Browns in the 3rd round. Worked for Mallet last season.)

LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack.

note: I have no evidence.

I’ve heard that somewhere.

Did you know there’s actually a phenomenon by which facts are totally made up and legitimized through the internet? Someone makes something up. Someone else, in the course of providing some type of reputable resource, let’s say a book, stumbles across that made up fact. They use that “fact” in their book because they’re too lay to corroborate it with something else. Now, whenever that first person is challenged on this “fact” they can point to this book and claim it as a valid source.

I heard Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU…

I would totally believe it. Just in general, its incredibly easy to start and spread a rumor IRL. The internet just pours gasoline on it and hits it with a flame-thrower.

they’re too lay = that sh** cray.

https://www.xkcd.com/978/

There’s actually a publishing company in Germany that harvests wiki pages, including all the hyperlinks to external sources, and then publishes a book on the subject.

bbstirrd - January 18, 2012 reply

The Grossi method of journalism!

SBP - January 18, 2012 reply

Doc's Kid - January 18, 2012 reply

Awesome — I was looking for that last night.

That is one funny website right there.

Adrock2099 - January 18, 2012 reply

“anonymous sources”

I got tongue-tied reading that and said “Lebron James does crack” a few times in my mind. Hmmm…

Legoman0721 - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

No, he kills puppies.

While on crack.

By choking them with dead kittens.

The bastard.

Who he killed with crack.

Forget LaMichael James. You guys hear about how much crack RG3 has been doing? And Blackmon’s so dependent on it, teams picking in the top 21 should avoid him altogether.

*Neither of these accusations have exactly been proven.

But they haven’t been disproved either.

Because they are true.

Allegedly.

according to sources.

The Licensed Optimist - January 17, 2012 reply

That’s my understanding.

They battled with their dealers, so that’s where they’re at.

Legoman0721 - January 18, 2012 via Android app reply

Obviously.

The Licensed Pessimist - January 17, 2012 reply

I see no way DeCastro goes in the top 10. He’s good, but Iupati didn’t even go top 10.

rufio - January 17, 2012 reply

Agreed. And then there is that whole never-really-played-against-good-opposing-lineman thing

I mean neither did Iupati. Idaho isn’t exactly scheduling powerhouses left and right.

rufio - January 17, 2012 reply

One of Iupati’s draws was his physicality.

Decastro doesn’t have that.

The Licensed Pessimist - January 17, 2012 reply

Also he’s 350 and moves like he’s a ballerina. DeCastro doesn’t have that either.

I think the Peyton Manning situation will have a major effect on the draft. If a QB-needy team manages to land Manning, it would increase the chances of Griffin being there at 4. Of course it would also take away a potential trade partner for us…

JohnW81 - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

Matt Flynn too. I’m hoping the Redskins throw a bank at him, instead of going into the draft needing a QB.

ouched - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

wouldn’t you rather they go into the draft needing a QB and offer us a ransom for RGIII at 4?

tr1betime - January 17, 2012 reply

They’re not going to pay a ransom to move up 2 spots.

I wouldn’t put that past Snyder.

good point

Snyder doesn’t make the decisions there anymore.

Too bad.

I would rather them not need a QB, that way we can take RG3 at 4

TheDriveStillHurts - January 17, 2012 reply

If we think RG3 is a franchise caliber Qb and risk losing him, giving up picks to ensure we get him is a must.

Roger Dorn - January 17, 2012 reply

No doubt. The big question there is the “if” — despite what “league sources” say, I would bet quite a bit that Holmgren (and this has to be the Big Show’s ultimate decision) is very, very much undecided on what RG3 is worth. I think he will want to work him out, etc. He didn’t fall in love with Bradford until after Bradford’s pro-day (which was touted to be the best pro day since Troy Aikman’s).

Agreed, I doubt we have made that judgment this early.

Roger Dorn - January 17, 2012 reply

a must.

I completely disagree. I don’t think the “risk” of losing him is all that high, but if he is somehow drafted before us, in the top 3, it means we get Kalil or Blackmon, which I’m perfectly fine with.

As long as your OK with Colt being the QB for the next X number of years until you’re in a position to draft a franchise QB, if there even is one there that year.

That X variable (being anywhere from 0 to 10) depends on a lot of things, such as free agency or his own play.
But if we don’t have a QB that can beat him out in training camp, and we suck again, we’ll probably end up in the top 5 again, having this same conversation next year. Only it’ll come with Kalil/Blackmon and the stud we drafted at 22.

Yeah, I mean its totally feasible Colt gets better and you have a team with lots of talent and a game manager QB. There are worse things in life.

San Fran agrees.

emily522 - January 17, 2012 reply

While there are a few exceptions including SF, Id rather of the proven route of having an elite QB.

Even Alex Smith showed off a pretty lively arm the other day. I haven’t seen Colt make those types of throws (game winner was a prime example) on a rope like he did. Not saying he can’t but I question if he can.

Alex Smith has never lacked talent.

7 years later…

was implying this year

emily522 - January 18, 2012 reply

of course you were. they agree this year, but for about 6.5 years they were ready to murder the guy.

DontCallMeJoey - January 19, 2012 reply

X being one because without a qb, we’ll have a top 5 pick for sure

macdowellm03 - January 17, 2012 via Android app reply

No way, Colt is going to be better, the O Line will be better, the defense will be better, the running game might be better (this is all pending no injuries). We should win more games.

even with colt at qb, this team should be better and win more games next year.

but to the point above, if you think rg3 is the man, then you go get him. period. if you have an opportunity to draft a stud qb, you do it.

DontCallMeJoey - January 17, 2012 reply

Totally agree, I also have no problem giving up a couple of picks to get if needed.

yep, we’ll be better and at best, we have a shot at Landry Jones at QB unless he significantly improves…and if he doesn’t improve, I don’t really want him

bross09 - January 17, 2012 reply

And that easy schedule too? o no, that was this year…

Sorry but you cant just assume things like that. People have a “madden” issue thinking that PT just makes a person immediately better. Of course theres always chance with the players you select or bring in through FA, but to get locked in an attitude that “Colt is going to get better” is wrong.

I think don’t think you know my thoughts too well. I am on the side of trading picks to get RG3 if needed precisely because I have no idea if we’re in a position to get a franchise QB in 2013 and I don’t know if Colt is the answer, and that’s being polite about it.

ah, perhaps i missed something up there. Sorry, carry on.

The Licensed Pessimist - January 18, 2012 reply

5 stars.

If we think RG3 is a franchise caliber Qb

bross09 - January 17, 2012 reply

giving up picks

franchise

If

quotation

If we have to trade up for Griffin, especially with the given top 4 prospects, I’ll be disappointed.
Any one of those four guys are a better option than giving up our other first round pick to trade up.

I agree. The Browns have too many other needs to be giving away picks.

NM Dawg - January 17, 2012 reply

I agree with this.

emily522 - January 17, 2012 reply

I disagree. If the guys upstairs think a guy is a franchise QB, you have to get him.

Joe Thomas is an RG3 fan?

I thought he backed Coly McCoy.

Doc's Kid - January 18, 2012 reply

Right up to the point where RG3 declared for the draft.

you have to get him

Well that’s good, because we can very likely get him at 4.
Even in Wyche’s mock draft, there’s no reason at all for us to trade up, the Rams and Vikings probably aren’t going to take RG3. And if they trade with some other team, it means we get Kalil or Blackmon and keep our picks, which is great.

I think it’s likely everyone stays put in the draft this year, but if we think another team is trying to trade ahead of us, that’s trouble.

Only if we want Robert Griffin

that’s trouble.

No, it’s not. It guarantees us a great prospect in Kalil or Blackmon. This is coming from someone who has really wanted a QB since half way through the season. I just think it’s not a good idea to trade away our picks when the other options are better: 1. get him anyway, 2. get someone else who is awesome and also at a position of need.

For exactly what you said, I think they will not reach and keep building with all the picks we have

If we did nothing to stop the other team from moving, we would’ve failed, hard. If we’re fine to sit back for Kalil or Blackmon, it would make me pretty mad.

I really, really don’t want Kalil at 4.

We have no need whatsoever for Kalil (who is a stud) a number 4 overall pick on an LT with the plan to move him to RT makes zero sense. If Kalil is BPA when we are on the board, we better try to trade.

TheDriveStillHurts - January 18, 2012 via mobile reply

Preferably, if Kalil is on the board and RG3/Blackmon are not, I would also hope we trade down. If we don’t, I’m fine with taking him and solidifying our tackle position for a long time.

This is a waste.

I’d rather take Claiborne over Kalil.

Not I.

I think I would probably take Coples before Kalil

But I wouldn’t take either at 4th overall. TRADE DOWN at that point.

Well, yeah, of course we would try to trade down. I was speaking to the hypothetical that we couldn’t, or just didn’t get the deal we would want.

a team will trade up for Kalil.

TRADE DOWN

I still prefer this if RG3/Blackmon are both gone at #4.

I get all the FA RT jokes, but that didn’t work out all that well last time.

It’s been one season dude.

“Well, Pashos and Cousins and Hicks didn’t work. Therefore finding a RT in FA doesn’t work. Case closed.”

Uh, no.

Cousins was even a free agent — he was picked up on waivers from Baltimore. And that’s a team that definitely needed help on its o-line.

I wish we would have claimed Gaither when Kansas City cut him loose.

Straw man at its best.

We should have actually gotten that guy before Pashos went down, in the regular free agency period.

Unless something whacky happens with his medical check-ups, I would be really, really, really surprised to see Kalil on the board, especially with two OLine poor teams ahead of us.

I think odds are good that Blackmon will be up there though. We need someone to test off the charts at the combine.

I think it would be smart of the FO to make a list of all the teams with a need at LT and start calling around with hypothetical trade deals like we did with Atlanta last year. I don’t think we need Kalil.

I agree with trying to make a trade, and I think one would get done, but in the hypothetical situation that no team is willing to trade up with us, Kalil is probably the BPA with Luck/RG3/Blackmon all off the board.

i’m a huge proponent of taking linemen until the sun sets in the draft … but if 1-3 goes luck, griffin, blackmon, then i think we have to move away from kalil, even though he’s BPA at that point. i think you have to go with a BPA + need (pass rusher?) at that stage.

Someone will call us if Kalil is on the board.

yeah, i can’t see a situation where we wouldn’t be able to move the 4 pick w/ kalil on the board. my point was based on us not being able to move out of there, which i think is highly unlikely.

Chicago maybe? That’s just my first thought. We will definitely be able to move the pick.

but if 1-3 goes luck, griffin, blackmon, then i think we have to move away

I agree that we should really take the king’s ransom that’ll be offered up for this stud franchise LT. But the pretend, extremely unlikely hypothetical was that no one is willing to trade with us, (again probably will never happen), but if it did, in bizarro-world, I’m happy with Kalil.

I think this is essentially what Heckert has said. It is a can’t miss pick at 4.

SBP - January 18, 2012 reply

Yup.

Nope. If they think he’s the guy (especially if Holmgren does) and they think they’re going to miss out on him at 4, trade up.

You’d seriously be angry because they moved up to grab a player that has twice the talent than Kalil or Blackmon?

Agreed. I’m not trying to project RGIII into the NFL, but if Heckert is confident enough in his ability to play in the NFL and marks him as our QBotF then go get him. His moves thus far have been great, so why second guess now?

I don’t know about twice the talent, but he’s add more than twice the value to our team.

Yup. You can’t really compare the talent of an LT to a QB — very different skillets.

TheDriveStillHurts - January 18, 2012 via mobile reply

This. LTs prefer cast iron, where QBs use non-stick teflon.

all the better to make some tasty pancakes…

Gabe Durrant - January 18, 2012 reply

Cast Iron holds heat really well though.

And the flavors it can absorb.

You’re assuming he pans out. Personally, I’d guess that of the top 4, RG3 is the least likely to pan out of the group. Now, I don’t let that discourage me from drafting him (at 4th overall), but when speaking about adding value, I don’t think it’s more than twice.

Kalil adds very little value to our team. Blackmon too, unless Colt develops into a guy who can be efficient enough with the ball for us to beat good teams.

I am thinking some quarterback is coming in here to compete for the starting job at quearterback. Someone unnamed as of yet

I would take Vince Young.

bite your tongue

Yeah but you would also take JaMarcus. No thanks.

Damn straight I would.

Bernie19Kosar - January 19, 2012 reply

unless Colt

Agreed.

Maybe this is what I meant.

If anything, Kalil and Blackmon are more likely to be successful at their respective positions than RG3. I don’t buy your “twice the talent” argument for a second. Personally, I like all 4 of the prospects there, which is why I don’t think we should be giving up picks.

Being successful at WR is world’s lower than being successful at QB.

I agree, not for our other first. I cant see H&H doing this in any scenario.

jlsclarity - January 17, 2012 reply

I can, pretty easily actually.

Care to explain, or is disagreeing with me without an explanation doing enough for you since the Tebow thread?

I gave you plenty of explanations then. Don’t get made because your religion was tested on a public forum.

This is a GM of a football organization. Anything goes. Colt sucks; you need a prolific QB to win in this league. RGIII is it if you can’t get Luck. I mean you can’t be 100% but you can’t be 100% on anybody in the draft. It’s impossible. You go with the information you’re given and the situation you’re in and you pick the pieces that will best help your team. Colt isn’t cutting it and probably won’t. RGIII is clearly that piece that could start to push us over the top.

I’d contend to say that their aren’t many senerios of them not picking RGIII.

You will possibly end up being correct. I just read somewhere the odds of first round QB picks and turns out QB’s success rates (don’t remember all the parameters defining ‘success’) were exactly at 40%, the other positions all averaged out to approx, 44 or 45%. If H/H feel RGlll is worth it, then they will do what they need to do. If they don’t think he is THE QB, they could stay put or trade down. It’s all speculation here, but speculation can be fun.

OldTimeDawg - January 18, 2012 reply

Lol you read that here at DBN.

you know what the rate of finding even an above average QB like a David Garrard (yes, he is the cutoff) outside of the first? less than 5%.

Other positions are littered with late round guys who were really good and pro bowlers
HB: Forte/Rice/mjd
WR: Brandon marshall/welker/colston
TE: pretty much all of them besides Pettigres
OL: Snee, Gross, Nicks, Sitton, Birk, Saturday (2 at each)
DE: Jared Allen/Trent Cole

You get the picture. A lot of the elite guys at other positions aren’t taken in the first. Take those stats with a huge grain of salt because they don’t point out the the success rate of getting another position outside of the first.

This is hilarious. Since when is the 2nd round a “late round”? Every HB you mentioned was taken in the 2nd round.

It’s later than the first. The success rate on QBs drops precipitously even in the second round.

Drops off the table actually.

Oh, so because the 2nd round is later than the first it is a “late round”?
If not, you fail to address my point. I’m pointing out the HBs bross mentioned as “late round guys”.

you are harping on a typoe, when I meant later round. If you don’t even want to define 2nd round as later round, I gave you other options.

harping on a typoe

This is funny.

Indeeb

I forgot *later, not late.

Ok, Lesean mccoy (3rd). Brian Westbrook (3rd/4th, I forget), Turner (5th), Fred Jackson (was he drafted?) Foster (UDFA).

It’s still later than the first anyways…

I agree with you but before someone else points out, Lesean was a 2nd rounder… between MoMass and Veikune…. ouch…..

I thought he was a 3rd rounder…

oh well. 2nd round may be the best round to draft a RB though and my personal favorite RB from this draft (Chris Polk) is likely going to go in the 2nd and reminds me of another 2nd rounder (Forte)

As far as second round RBs go, the one’s not names Hardesty are awesome. And I’m actually in favor of avoiding a RB at all costs with our first pick. I just found the “late round” description amusing. With the “later” correction, it seems a lot more accurate.

yeah, 2nd round is definitely not “late round”.

and before you try to say that I only included 2 at every position, I could include more. But there are only 2 QBs on the level at their position as the players I mentioned that weren’t taken in the 1st: Brees and Brady.

And Brees was the 32nd pick no?

yep. I believe one year before the 1st round expanded into 32 also.

So you figure Couch then Quinn. So, we go RG3 and we’ll hit this time!! Just playing the percentages.

eventually we gotta hit…hopefully. Better chances than if we take a later round QB every year for 10 years.

I mean Shaq is eventually going to hit a free throw if you keep sending him to the line.

The big difference being that a lot of those missed free throws came after and-1 posterizations.

Adrock2099 - January 18, 2012 reply

Right. But that doesn’t fit my analogy of spending draft picks and free throws.

Maybe trading back in the draft and picking up more picks is an and-1?

I agree with all this, except for the part about “not many scenarios” These guys are smarter than Mike Ditka. There has to be value in this draft in more than one area. I think 2 first round picks to move up 2 picks is a lot when you look at what type of player we can pick at 22.

Everyone is smarter than Mike Ditka. This isn’t a Ditka situation. THIS IS A POSSIBLE FRANCHISE QB. NOT AN AVERAGE RUNNINGBACK.

And really? You think the person we could pick at 22 can be equal to picking RGIII at #2 or #4.

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. Come on man. That even sounds ludicrous.

Your point is totally right, but I take issue with calling Ricky Williams an “average runningback” — Rickie Williams was really, really good. He still plays and still ain’t half bad.

Make more sense. I didnt say that at all. I said that he isnt worth a high 1 AND #22.

Now I’m really bummed I missed that thread.

It was a peach.

I saw some comments but dammit I want more.

emily522 - January 18, 2012 reply

Agree

OldTimeDawg - January 18, 2012 reply

If indeed we are picking Griffin, we had better try and keep as many picks in case he doesn’t pan out.

Heavysoviet - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

so, we should be planning for our first round pick to bust before we’ve even picked him? i get it…

DontCallMeJoey - January 17, 2012 reply

Well duh, Tim Couch and Brady Quinn didn’t work out so clearly we should never ever draft a QB high.

Nevermind our line is 10 million times better than Couch’s and Brady Quinn was mishandled and probably never as good as advertised. Also drafting a bust sets you back 5 years so we should just plod along in mediocrity.

I think Couch and Quinn not working out just means we’re due.

If only it worked that way…

I think the new QBs coming out have seen enough of the Leafs, Russels, etc. that they know they need to keep their business straight and work hard. RG3 is clearly a hard worker, along with his physical skills. Most of the busts were directly related to either work ethic/character issues or arm strength and accuracy issus. RG3 grades high in all those categories.

That's the beauty of karma.

Its like dropping a coin in the plinko game. Every time it hits a peg, it’s got a 50/50 chance to go left. The odds don’t get better as you move down the game, but the odds that you end up all the way on the right decrease exponentially.

The coin is going to bounce to the left one of these times.

i love this comment

There are no guarantees in pro sports. RG3 could be the next Tom Brady or Ryan Leaf. We don’t know. I’m saying that we should prepare for the worst in case it happens, cut our losses if in fact we do have a bust on our hands.

Heavysoviet - January 17, 2012 reply

You wouldn’t know for years though which makes it pretty silly to start stockpiling picks now for anticipation to be grabbing another QB.

There has to be some preparation if indeed he doesn’t work out.

Uh, yeah. It’s called draft another QB in the first round the next year. Preparation completed.

As explained in another thread - just look at San Diego after Leaf. They tried and tried again until they hit it. Drafted a QB at 2 (Leaf) and failed. Three years later, drafted a QB at 32 (Brees) and appeared to have failed. Three years later, drafted a QB at 4 (Rivers) and hit. Gravy was that Brees all of a sudden turned into an awesome QB when Rivers held out.

You can never have too many great pass rushers, you can never have too many great QBs.

But then starts the entire building blocks to groom that QB again. Helps to have picks to clean up the mess.

But then starts the entire building blocks to groom that QB again.

And? You aren’t going anywhere unless you have that QB anyways.

A healthy balance of picks is good, is what I’m trying to pinpoint. I’m not in favor of trading them away so we can get Griffin.

I have to disagree. When we start winning our positions in the draft will matter less and less anyways so better start getting used to it.

Granted, if Griffin turns out, then stockpiling picks won’t matter as much.

They won’t have to trade the whole draft, they have 9 picks so they have a couple to give.

We’re talking at most about trading our 2 first rounders to go up to the number 2 pick. It’s not like we’re trading away years worth of draft picks!

But then starts the entire building blocks to groom that QB again.

So, we should just pass on trying to get a QB to groom at all?

As a I mentioned earlier, it helps to have picks to clean up the mess.

but there is no mess. not yet. and maybe not ever.

That’s probably the worst and most inaccurate mock I’ve seen so far…and I’ve seen crap loads.

redCel - January 17, 2012 via mobile reply

In general or just pertaining to the Browns?

Id have to say in general. Reading through the comments on bleacher report, it doesn’t sound like anyone from anywhere likes it.

redCel - January 18, 2012 via mobile reply

When April rolls around no mock is entirely accurate. “Crazy” things will happen.

Last year this time everyone was gaga for the pass rusher from Clemson, then a report about his knees came out and boom, second rounder.

by the way, was he any good this year?

1.5 sacks in 16 games.

soooo … yes?

well Jayme mitchell is our best pass rusher and he got 1.5 sacks, so…

So we could have had TWO Jayme Mitchells?! That’s not a Super Bowl, that’s a DYNASTY!

Doc's Kid - January 18, 2012 reply

exactly…why did we pass on Bowers?!?!?

This comment deserves to be green.

True.

Crazy things will happen, agreed. but when you try to predict craziness and not sensibility, you end up looking and sounding ridiculous.

redCel - January 18, 2012 via mobile reply

Wyche doesn’t even say what picks we need to give up to move to #2. Not the #22 pick obviously.

Actually if bleacherreport is against it, count me in.

Yeah that’s a vote of confidence for sure. One of their less horrible writers thinks RG3’s arm is just a little better than Colts and otherwise they’re the same except we know about Colt’s intangibles but not RG3s.

Most of the commenters want Richardson or Kalil.

i noticed that about Richardson and Kalil too. Thought it was pretty weird that the same fanbase has 2 different prospectives on 2 different sites.

Although they are as divided about RGIII as us.

redCel - January 18, 2012 via mobile reply

Ha. Wolf is so bad.

He’s NFP, slightly better, probably not much.

I’d have thought B/r was both for it and against it at the same time. And everything in between.

test

Kosar19 - January 17, 2012 reply

?

Doc's Kid - January 17, 2012 reply

He’s testing his fancy sig.

Brownie's Year - January 17, 2012 reply

I wonder why people thinking trading our second 1 or 2nd rounder sets up back 4 years. It’s an extra pick and we have nine of them. You can only have so many players on your roster.

think, *us

Because we may miss out on the next Brian Robiskie or David Veikune.

TheDriveStillHurts - January 18, 2012 via mobile reply

This is what I’m saying. Isn’t that why we made the deal last year? It was to add another pick this year to improve our team. If we have to use that pick to get the QB we want, then, mission accomplished.

boom. nice work.

BrownsFanRegina - January 17, 2012 reply

I like this rumor because I think it is a smoke screened aimed getting someone else to trade up and get RG3 so that we can get Blackmon.

Don’t worry. It’s not.

true

Im thinking the Rams are too high on Kalil to risk letting MIN get him. If we do this it shouldnt be for #22. If it was for a later rd pick(s) I can see it though.

I see a lot of people advocating taking Kalil if he falls to us. He seems like a franchise Left Tackle but, as everyone is aware, we already have one of those. Are people thinking we should use our #4 pick to draft a backup to the Pancake man? Alternatively are you thinking of turning him into a Right Tackle? I think we can get a specialist RT with a pick in the 3rd round. Using #4 on Kalil might be a waste.

I think Kalil is “worst case scenario” where someone trades up for RG3 and Minny takes Blackmon and nobody wants to move up. You probably start him at RT until JT decides to have mercy on RDEs around the league and goes fishing, then you move him to LT. It’s not the best case, but its not the worst thing to happen either.

All we hear about with Holmgren and Heckert is how you build from within and draft picks. Why would you trade draft picks to move up two spaces and draft a QB that is still a question mark with this offence. McCoy is not the problem. Bad play calling, dropped passes, running for your life as soon as the ball is hiked, no running game, that’s the problem. McCoy is still the guy who beat the Patriots and Saints last year. If you want to move up to get Blackmon, if you feel he won’t be there when you pick, I can see that. At least your getting a playmaker on offence. Pick #22 sould be used for the best OL in the draft that’s still there. Keep your picks, we need them all with all those holes to fill.

RUSSELL S - January 18, 2012 reply

Last night I was warming to the thought of Colt starting with Blackmon and some other weapons. Then I saw some more clips of RG3 and how fast he gets the ball out and how accurate he is (granted college) and forgot about it. That release just looks all-pro.

Colt is irrelevant to the discussion really. It all rests on the evaluation of RGIII. If you believe he is all pro caliber you have to pick him. Then you let them compete and see what happens. However, if he is that good – you will have to trade up to number 2 to get him. The cost will hurt, as I am sure it will include the 2nd number 1 DC – but that is the price of fixing this situation.

realmccoy - January 18, 2012 reply

Agreed, well said.

I get what you’re trying to say, but not sure I agree. While ideally you have 2 starting caliber QBs on the same team, it never seems to work out well. Colt where he is right now would be an awesome backup.

Would suggest that it would be better for RGIII to have a piece of wood stuck to his behind for the majority of next year. He will undergo a huge transition from a gadget offense to WCO. I have been a fan of his and watched him for years and I am not sure he has ever even taken a 5-7 step drop and looked downfield. Give him a year of development. During that time, if Colt really shows he has something – we have a great problem. If he demonstrates he is a career backup then you have the hard talk and see if he can be a good backup here.

realmccoy - January 18, 2012 reply

Gah, you had such a good point before now you say this!? That is the mentality that KILLS QBs in Brownstown. Quit with the “give Colt this, give RGIII that.” Let one of them earn it. To say we are going to use the #4, or even as you suggest youd do above, our 4 and 22 to get to 2 only to get a QB that you predetermined would sit a year is ludicrous. If you think he is that good, then let him earn the #1 role without saying he rides the bench.

This is different from when Colt came out. He was a very late 3rd round pick. Holmgren is smart and knew Browns fans would be calling for any drafted QB to start, so he said he will ride the bench his first year (did happen). This was for protection of a young QB that got drafted low because they obviously didnt think he had all-pro potential (but maybe he could develop into a good-great starter). QBs going in round 1 should be expected to come in and compete to start from day 1, and thats what Id expect from RGIII if he comes to cleveland.

(didnt** happen)

The original plan with Couch was to let him ride the pine behind a vet for his first year. It just didn’t pan out that way. It’s not necessarily a bad idea.

And still that is a “special” scenario, because they were an expansion team. Even Peyton Manning could of had his career wrecked playing for the 99 Browns.

It is way worse to force a QB in early before he is ready than it is to let him sit if he needs.

Just the sheer level of memorization of terminology it would take to play QB for us is a lot, then you got defenses you have to read, various “games within the game” you have to keep track of, the bigger concepts—both play by play and in terms of the course of the game—and pro wideouts and TEs who all think they are open.

That’s a lot for a guy to handle in only a few months’ time.

When has that ever happened? And when has it ever resulted in that team NOT getting great draft picks for one of the QBs?

Schaub/Vick, Cassel/Brady, Orton*/Cutler…

What, is Orton addicted to crack too?! I guess they should just trade him to us for an 7th rounder, top 250 protected.

Adrock2099 - January 18, 2012 reply

haha its a different asterisk. Orton probably isn’t “good” as agreed upon by everyone.

A good stopgap.

I agree with the draft picks on the trade but keeping two starting QBs = constant QB controversy.

If we have a QB controversy and we are winning games and one of those QBs is throwing for 300/game and efficiently then I’ll take that yesterday.

I also forgot Vick/Kolb above. When people think your two QBs are good at least one of them is and you can keep that guy. The other guy either walks and you get a compensatory pick or you can trade him for second rounders at worst.

Are the Eagles, Chargers, Patriots, etc. any worse for having shipped off Schaub, Kolb, or Brees? Arguably the Chargers are but with Brees’ injury that was an entirely different story. If we had RG3 and Colt and Colt started playing like Brees, that would be a great thing for us.

The game plan beat the Saints and the Patriots last year. Wallace could have done the same thing. McCoy has had his year and a half to get it done, you cant think that all of a sudden he is going to be wonderful. Even other defenses said, he stares down the receiver too long we know what he is going to do with the ball. He needs to see the whole field. NOW the question is do Holmgren and Heckert and Shurmur think he can be taught and execute the game plan well enough to win in this league so much that we forego picking a quarterback in this draft? When they could not name Colt McCoy as the starter and the QB to build this team around, gives us insight they dont believe they can, at least not now. HE STILL MAY BE AFTER THE DRAFT AND TRAINING CAMP THEIR BEST OPTION, no one knows

When they could not name Colt McCoy as the starter

Or this may have been because they didn’t want to reveal their draft intentions. If RG3 is still on the board at #4 and everyone knew that we weren’t going to take him anyways, nobody would bother offering us anything to move up to #4, since they could look to get to #5 for less.

Cmon man, you can’t say the gameplan won those games. Colt still made the plays he needed to make. A win is a win is a win.

The real thing to note was that those were two out of 15+ games he’s started and he hasn’t been able to perform like that consistently.

A win is a win, but you cannot tell me McCoy “won” those games. in NO David Bowens comes up with 2 INTs for TDs and Hodge had a 68 yard run that set up a FG if I remember right. thats 17 of our 30 points. the offense produced 13, while mccoy went 9/17 for 74 yards- Hillis added only 69 on the ground. Really… thats what you point to for a good game??

Now the NE game, McCoy added 100 yards to his total… Hillis completely dominated though. 184 with 2 TDs. McCoy had a nice rushing TD this game (a scramble to the left front corner of the end zone if I remember?) Stuckey also scored on the fumble-rooski. And didnt we have a onside kick or something? But thats all irrelevant. Yes, McCoy played good this game (14 of 19 on passes) but you cannot tell me this wasnt a byproduct of the game plan.

Colt won those games as a starting QB. You can say that a QB’s win-loss record doesn’t mean that much—and I would agree with you—but you can’t take the wins away from him. Colt wasn’t putting the team on his back in those wins but he did what he needed to do to win.

Again, Colt has had good games as a Brown. Just not enough of them.

And every QB performance is the product of the gameplan. Setting up the team (and by extension the QB) to win the game is exactly what gameplans are there for.

I don’t remember an onside kick, but I do remember Dawson kicking it between two of their players and they each thought the other was getting it. We recovered the opening kickoff without them touching it. I miss good special teams….

Doc's Kid - January 19, 2012 reply

McCoy is not the problem.

McCoy may not be the problem, but he is certainly a problem. And if you have a problem at the QB position, that is your biggest problem. McCoy is also still the quarterback who lost to the Rams this year.

As far as a new QB not being a guarantee, there is no such thing in the NFL. You have to take the chance. If we never take a chance on a good QB we can be the jaguars for the next ten years.

Prolly I am among the top 5% of the McCoy supporters and I am admitting that he did not demonstrate that he is the QBOTF – period and exclamation point. Colt supporters have to recognize the guy was given a tremendous and golden opportunity by Holmgren, annointing him the starter. This gave him status as the club leader – and increased his chances of success tremendously. Still – to me he has flashed enough that you do not conclude he is worthless and eliminae future opportunities. In addtion, the decision to not hire an OC was stupid and hurt the entire offense. I say if RGIII is the real deal and Heck likes him – lets bring him and compete and see what we got. Lets get chilly and realize Competition is the best coach in the world.

realmccoy - January 18, 2012 reply

In addtion, the decision to not hire an OC was stupid and hurt the entire offense.

I agree and disagree with this at the same time. While it did set us back a bit, hiring the wrong OC would have been even worse. See: Daboll.

Daboll actually did a pretty good job in Miami once they switched Qbs.

Which makes me think what the issue was here. I mean, 2010 exhibition season, Delhomme was on fire.

The issue is and will continue to be QB play. The OC is always the scapegoat.

Right. I don’t really think there are many outright bad assistant coaches. They all got there because they’re good at what they do. Some are certainly better than others, but when a team is absolutely terrible on one side of the ball execution has to play a huge role.

While QB play would have really helped, Daboll’s gameplans were still resistant to change throughout the game and lacked any real depth to lead an offense to points in the 2nd and 4th quarters.

Obviously a great player can make any play work, but Daboll did not set us up optimally for success.

I am just pointing out that Daboll’s offense performed pretty well with a subpar Matt Moore at QB this year.

That is true. Hopefully for whoever he coaches for next, he’ll have learned some things that will help him. He’s always been good at scouting the opposing team and scripting plays to open the game that score.

Eh, you could also say 2011 exhibition season McCoy was on fire. thats the tricky thing about preseason.

I was talking about Daboll in general though.

O I thought you were speaking about Delhomme not Daboll.

Colt McCoy was on fire this preseason.

Those were the days D’:

emily522 - January 18, 2012 reply

Didn’t need no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight…

preseason

That’s what SB was talking about.

Bernie19Kosar - January 19, 2012 reply

i never did think, and continue to not think ,that daboll was that bad here, or that he was even a significant problem.

McCoy is still the guy who beat the Patriots and Saints last year.

He may have had a little help from Peyton Hillis and Reggie Hodges.

I still love the Hodges run.

Bowens beat the Saints.

I actually liked the beating of the Patriots better.

How sad is it we have to remember wins from 20 games ago or more. =(

How sad is it that we point to our high point as a 2 and half game winnning streak?

It is getting better right?

I think it is, despite the record.

Liking the defense. What about tight end? Upgrade?

Nope. Watson is cool and I expect Cameron to improve.

I thought I heard grumblings (no proof, just thought I heard) of Watson being a possible player being let go

I think I’ve heard this too. But I don’t know.

I think Moore will get better too, he now it was not the year we expected by he more than doubled his catches from the year before, had 4 TDs and combined with Watson, they had 71 catches. That’s not bad production really for team so offensively inept. He seemed really serious about becoming a well rounded player and I also think he lost playing time because we were starting Oneil Cousins at RT and we needed a blocking TE to help more than a receiving one.

*we know, *him
Preview dammit

i also think he (moore) got noticeably better as the season progressed

mccoy isn’t 100% the problem, but he isn’t the solution either…

McCoy is still the guy who beat the Patriots and Saints last year.

And he had less than 250 yards passing in those 2 games with exactly 0 touchdowns. Peyton Hillis and the D won those games more than he did.

Next.

Sound like the Soup Nazi……NEXT!

speaking of that, I found a funny pic related to that and SOPA

Care to share?

I dunno if this is too political but

Now I feel stupid for just not figuring it out on my own.

Now I feel stupid for just not figuring it out on my own.

Not too political. At least it shouldn’t be, SOPA would destroy the internet as we know it. I think even blogs like this one could be in trouble if it was passed.

It’s worth noting, DBN (and most SBnation blogs) have a link aggregate section. With the wide open language used in SOPA, if one of those links posted by a random user might happen to link to an article that was deemed to contain “pirated copyrighted material,” they could shut down the entire SBN domain.

The other issue, with a blog like this one, a lot of the coverage involves discussion other sports journalists comments. Articles here would have to walk on egg shells with quoting large chunks of other “copyrighted” pieces.

yep. as a joke I pointed out a link saying "this could shut down SBN if SOPA passed and the link was too the pirate bay.

mods: you can delete it if you want, in case SOPA actually does pass.

I figured not too political, but it is a current law on the table so I was trying to tiptoe.

What’s sad, is that could very well be an entirely real scenario if the bill actually passed. It’s so poorly written, without any understanding of actual internet dynamics, i.e. comment sections, that this nonsense would be occurring all over the web.

I totally agree. The best person to write this bill if they actually wanted it written would be someone who is 25 or under because they are much more likely to frequent a comment section…

or maybe the people writing just don’t care…

The fact that Tim Berners-Lee and Vint Cerf were against SOPA and PIPA shows how damaging it could be to the Internet simply from a security standpoint. If you don’t know who they are, look them up. Berners-Lee created the World Wide Web and Cerf helped create TCP/IP.

Doc's Kid - January 19, 2012 reply

McCoy is also still the guy that got beat by the Cardinals and the Rams this past year, so whats your point? And, why is RG3 a question mark, but not Blackmon?

Cardinals beat Wallace, but also we almost lost to Gabbert and Whitehurst which is even worse.

My mistake. But, like you said, the point still stands. We can’t ignore all the bad games he had because he beat the Patriots once and the Saints once. Also, the fact that he didn’t throw any TD’s in those games doesn’t help him much.

Yeah I think his Red Zone efficiency is what really hurts.

We’ve also heard that if the franchise QB you like is there you go get him, and that getting the QB is really really important.

Maybe it’s all too obvious to say so, but while these mocks are interesting, they’re far from predictive. Wyche’s mock draft in March of last year had three first round picks right out of 32. That’s a batting average of about .094, i.e. 9.4% and came closer to draft day. Not exactly impressive. Interestingly (tellingly?) NFL.com has taken since last year’s mock down, and it’s only available on a Rams fan site.

batard - January 18, 2012 reply

That’s actually a very good mock. He got the top 3 exactly right. He didn’t get the positions right in the top ten, but he nailed most of them. He hit on Phil Taylor at 21. DaQuan Bowers was obviously wrong and Ryan Mallet in the late 20s was way off, but I don’t see a lot of glaringly bad calls there.

I may well be misconstruing the purpose of mock drafts. It would seem that if the intention were merely to name the top 32 picks in the NFL draft, then it was indeed quite good and accurate. But as a fan, I want to know who my team is most likely to pick, not just who the top prospects are. And that’s where this sort of thing is relatively useless to me despite that he got Phil Taylor correct. I’m probably taking this too seriously, though.

batard - January 18, 2012 reply

Note that one guy’s free fall (Bowers) knocked the whole thing out of whack- like that step on a butterfly, create a hurricane stuff. He had Cinci taking Bowers and us staying and taking Green, which I we would have. That changes a lot just in iteself.

pretty hard to predict trades, and prices of trades, etc.

I can’t wait until we are picking at 32 (without trading down) and have no idea who we will get.

or care

2013 seems a long way off.

I’ll rec to that.

JustBob - January 19, 2012 reply

♫ yeah yeah ♪

Simmsinns - January 19, 2012 reply

With the Caldwell firing by the Colts….
what does anyone think about them releasing Manning?
is there a chance he’d like to come here, with our better overall team, & bring a couple of his FA WRs with him?
I know this is purely hypothetical & wishful thinking… but, a fella can dream, right?!?!?

They are starting over and all but guarantees Luck as the pick

They won’t release him. It’s either trading to the Jets or nothing. They won’t eat that contract just to get rid of him.

It is going to be interesting

They’ll get rid of him so they WON’T have to eat the contract. That would be the point of releasing him.

for the record, Manning’s Contract has an out … if the Colts pay him a $20 million bonus due on March 1, they are locked into his Contract…. however, if they refuse to pay, he is release… It’s certainly possible that the Colts (with a newly blown up staff and FO) could release him…

alirenee - January 18, 2012 reply

They would not release him. That would get all the new guys fired immediately.

The only way he gets released is if Irsay signs off on it.

the point is if they don’t release him or trade him prior to the 53 man roster being set they will have the largest QB deal in history with Manning and the Luck’s #1 overall money on the roster.. they won’t have money to build their clearly pathetic rest of the roster…. they would basically be making a $20 million dollar investment just to trade him… depends how confident everyone is in his health i guess… if he is healthy enough for another 3-5 years they will have no problem recouping that money… if they think he’s still a serious health risk… no way they pay him

alirenee - January 18, 2012 reply

I think it’s almost a sure thing they release him anyway. You gotta remember if they do go ahead and pay him his roster bonus and keep him to trade him, the team that trades for him is gonna get his contract too. No team wants to pay that kind of money to a guy that could possibly get hit once and never play again.

Not going to happen.

Not going to happen.

Not going to happen.

bross09 - January 19, 2012 reply

Not going to happen.

Dawg Nuts - January 19, 2012 reply

I think you are forgetting how little rookies are making now.

the rumor was that the polians were pushing to dump peyton and move onto the next chapter. irsay would have none of it, so the polians were out on their asses.

Manning will be a Jet

Rob Lowe said he is retiring.

I have to choose between the opinions of B19K and Rob Lowe? I need Moon to weigh in on this.

JustBob - January 19, 2012 reply

He’s switching to fullback

Doc's Kid - January 19, 2012 reply

Go with Lowe. He is much more dreamy.

Bernie19Kosar - January 19, 2012 reply

I think if he Manning has his choice, he goes to KC, where they have a decent team, in an easy division, with a VERY PLAYER FRIENDLY coach.

If you go somewhere you go anywhere but KC. I suggest you read up on how Pioli runs them.

great point. I hadn’t thought of that.
Too bad also, would be a great place to ride into the sunset, a la Montana

I hope either MIA or WASH takes him and the other takes Flynn. We keep our picks and hope Minny doesn’t do something nutty like take RG3.

Washington wanting Flynn

I went over to hogs heaven to see what the Redskin fans are saying about RG3, they have a big artickle on how good Flynn is and how he could be their savior.

There is also a handful of people who want RG3 but are afraid they will have to give up too much to get him, us having that 2nd 1st round pick is scary to them because we hold the bigger gun.

rdy - January 18, 2012 reply

I am a Redskins fan, Most Redskins fans do not want Matt Flynn

and some fans are afraid to move up, but if Shanny and Allen think RG3 is their guy they will pull the trigger, cause he cant get QB wrong again

Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012 reply

I think Manning gets released, then he goes to the Titans.

Personally I want RG3 real bad, however I dont want to give up both 1st round picks. I would give up our 1st and 2nd to get him.

rdy - January 18, 2012 reply

They really aren’t that far apart. In the grand scheme of things, its completely irrelevant if RG3 becomes a really good QB.

No need to trade

Browns have the 4th pick…Colts are taking Luck, Rams a WR they have a qb and the vikings are next and have their man with Ponder..so whats this trade talk?? The Browns are already in position to select RGIII…plus Holmgren never had a style like him run the offense, Farve, Hasselback..Browns will keep that pick and get the best RB or WR available then draft Weeden from OK St. at 24..I actually think he’s better than Luck.

Weeden will be 29 next season. He won’t be drafted before the fifth round, if at all.

Farve played til he was 40..Hassleback is 38 and still had a good season, thats about 10 good seasons left for Weeden, the fact that he’s older supports my statement that Weeden is actually more ready and more mature than Luck. Age 28- 32 is now considered prime, that also means the Browns won’t have to wait around for him to mature. Makes even more sense thanks.

Another option is select RGIII first a WR 24th and Weeden in the fifth that would be an amazing steal

But they will have to wait around for him. It isn’t about pure age, it’s about years playing football at a high level. It’s not like Weeden would come in and play like any other 29 year-old QB. He would take just as much time to develop as any other guy, except he has a 7 year disadvantage.

those guys were also not drafted at age 29 and had much more upside than Weeden.

you forgot when he was the QB Coach/OC for Steve Young…

the trade talk stems primarily from the fact that there are likely to be other teams calling the rams/vikings looking for an opportunity to go up and get rg3.

You make a valid point..however, he was still a semi professional player at baseball, so he has footwork and arm strenghth. And in baseball you have to be really accurate throwing a baseball, and he did all that this year leading Ok St from out of no where to number 3, higher ranked then Luck and RGIII. Because of his baseball career he will also have the mental toughness that I think Colt is dealing with now. It would certainly be a risk but Colt going into preseason will still be the man anyways.

As far as playing at a high level, there are several players in the NFL who never even played highschool or college footbal: The soon to be Hall of Famer Antonio Gates played basketball, never played a down of football in H.S. or college. And Young did not arrive in S.F. till he spent a couple years in Canada and in Tamba Bay, so he was already polished. Young learned to be a pocket passer from Joe Montana, thats why I excluded him.

he was still a semi professional player at baseball

this, quite literally, means nothing to weeden’s ability to be a successful nfl quarterback.

and gates played high school football.

other than that, great post.

Weeden has even said it is completely different

Weeden has actually said that it is a different motion, different set of muscles needed, and nowhere near the same. Weeden blew out his arm and it hurts him to throw a pitch. Because of how different it is, it doesn’t hurt him to throw a FB.

You know, if Jeff Samardija throws out his arm, everyone should be all over him then if this is the case. College WR, 6’5’’, and he can throw a baseball! He is Weeden+Tannehill.

And you shouldn’t disregard Young because he was a QB who had similar skills to RG3, though his running style wasn’t the same. Young should be excluded because he learned to be a pocket passer? Why can’t RG3 be the same? He actually a good pocket passer in college even though he threw from the shotgun.

Bross, FYI, I found out Tannehill was recruited to A&M as a QB, he just played WR while another guy started. Apparently his whole time there he practiced with the QBs and only played WR on Sat. Not saying I want him, but its something else to consider.

that is interesting. I did not read that.

He spent every day practicing as a QB and then suited up and played WR for games? Thats really hard to believe.

I’m just relaying what I heard on NFLN

Young played in the USFL and sucked when he was in Tampa. Gates plays TE, not quite the same learning curve.

What are the chances that the Rams trade Bradford and take RGIII? Browns wanted Bradford badly a few years ago, and now two of his Rams coaches are in Cleveland.

NM Dawg - January 18, 2012 reply

No thanks. He’s Colt McCoy with a more expensive contract.

The wild card here is Minnesota. Either Miami or Washington is going to move into the rams spot and give up a kings ransom for it. Flynn probably fits better in Washington, so I’ll say Miami moves up for RG3. I do not want to see us take RG3 for the simple fact that a dominant receiver is needed here badly and they rarely come along. The past 5 years there have been 15 WR’s drafted in 1st rd. only 5 have been busts. Heyward -Bey, which everyone saw coming. Crabtree, product of the offense? Ted Ginn JR, was a reach in 1st rd, Anthony Gonzalez, also a reach, and Craig Davis??? If you feel Blackman is on these guys level then making a move for RG3 is a good one. If you feel Blackmon is more on the level of Andre Johnson, Kenny Britt, Hakeem Nicks, AG Green, Dez Bryant, Julio jones, Calvin johnson, and so on…. then allowing RG3 to be taken by someone else is key and I believe that as well. My only worry is that a WR in Minnesotta is not out of the question, and another scary scenario could be St Louis receiving a kings ransome for that #2 pick, and then trading back into the #3 pick for less than what they got, because Minnesota has needs all over and could probably still get a Morris Claiborne by trading back a couple.

bforrer2020 - January 18, 2012 reply

DHB and Crabtree were slow starters but they both seem to be coming around. Who the hell is Craig Davis?

The REAL wild cards are not only Flynn, but also Manning. Also, I don’t think Heyward-Bey is a bust. Drafted to early? Probalby. But, I still believe he is good and getting better.

given how miami finished the season, it’s going to be a SERIOUS price for them to pay to get into the top-3 picks.

also, i think you left something out when you listed all those great receivers from the 1st round … they all have good-to-great quarterbacks getting them the ball. i’m a firm believer that the qb makes the receiver way more than the receiver makes the qb … and even in cases where the wr helps the qb a ton (see: stafford/megatron), that qb has to be pretty damn good already, which colt is not.

Heh, you beat me to it.

QBs make the receiver, not the other way around. Megatron is the exception not the rule.

QBs make the receiver, not the other way around. Megatron is the exception not the rule.