Hey, I’m a lawyer too. But not offended; an astonishing number of lawyers do lie all the time with no shame and not for the betterment of their clients.
Sorry folks – I deleted that post. I also emailed Bernie, and included rufio’s comment in my email (his analysis analysis in response to the article).
As I mentioned to Bernie, I deleted it for two reasons:
1) There were only two comments in the entire thread on topic (a comment from ntn, and rufio’s analysis).
2) I decided I’d prefer not to drive any more traffic to the Frowns blog. IMHO his blog has nothing much of redeeming value to add to the blogosphere. In fact, to the contrary, I find most of his articles bordering on downright objectionable and misleading. Simply put, I consider him to be a pompous lunatic.
(That said, the occasional “Xs and Os” articles from his other writer are very good).
The fanshot had been up for a couple of days. There were a grand total of 2 comments about the topic of the fanpost, and about 47 comments talking about (and responses from) Cleveland Frowns.
I probably would have left it up if that hadn’t been the case. But that, combined with the fact that the thought of being responsible for driving traffic to his site made my stomach turn made me decide to delete it.
I guess I view the desire to not drive traffic to his site as petty over differences of opinion. If I thought he had been acting inappropriately, I would agree.
Its a simple matter of principle. The word “inappropriate” is about right. I do think half of the crap he spews out over there is inappropriate and misleading.
At any rate, lets not get into a long debate about it. I respect your opinion of him and anyone else who likes to read his blog. He seems like a pretty smart guy, and from what I understand lots of his older stuff was pretty good. I just think he’s gone off the tracks of appropriate, rational commentary with what he’s been writing in recent months. Just my opinion.
He actually knows a crap load about Cleveland and Cleveland sports history and has some excellent posts on things like curses, Chief Wahoo and interesting stuff. You have every right to be mad at him, but I wouldn’t necessarily just dismiss him as a jerk even though the Mangini caused Benard to wreck his motorcycle stuff has been pretty nutty.
Yes, depression is real, and it is responsible for a ton of deaths every year. It is not the person’s fault and it can’t just be “snapped out of” and often requires medication and then it is very hard to find the right medication. Depression is a horrible disease.
All that said, your post re Benard was still absurd and a self-parody. The fact that you recognize that depression is a real and serious medical malady has nothing to do with the silliness of your post.
Yes real and serious and goes untreated with millions and millions of people if you believe the literature. But more importantly, when will somebody stop this crazy person who is so “silly” as to suggest that losing a supportive boss and going from sack leader to forgotten man in a career as high stress as professional football might impact someone’s mental state for the worse. At least there are lawyers like you to keep certain message boards free from such lunatics. Keep up the great work.
Anyway, counselor, you never retracted the tantrum you threw about my supposedly deleting your comment when in fact it was there all along and you just didn’t click on the “load more comments” button at the bottom of the page. This strikes me as especially unbecoming behavior on the part of a member of the bar. Did I miss something? I’d like to think as highly of the local bar as I can.
Ah, I see that the comment in question has an IP address from Los Angeles and on your profile that you’re a Lakers and Dodgers fan. At least we’re not talking about the Ohio bar here, which is something of a relief, though this still doesn’t look good for you, counselor.
Email me and I will give you my name so you can report me to the state Bar of California. I am pretty sure my professional reputation, background, and the matters I have handled speak for themselves. By the way, calling a fellow lawyer “counselor” is rather Bush league and something you see on TV, not in real life. However, I recognize that that may be different in Ohio.
Again, as I’ve said a million times, I’ve been a fan of your writing in the past, and I agree with a lot of your broader points. I just think you’ve gone overboard with some of the — dare I say it — “tantrums” you have thrown over Mangini and Colt. I hope you can get over it and get back to writing more quality articles/entries. That being said, it is of course your site, and you can do with it as you please and your new style may just be working for you. But that new style strikes me as closer to Tony Grossi than to the old Cleveland Frowns I read until recently.
By the way, I enjoyed your review of The Whore of Akron and thought it was spot-on.
As to this
But more importantly, when will somebody stop this crazy person who is so "silly" as to suggest that losing a supportive boss and going from sack leader to forgotten man in a career as high stress as professional football might impact someone’s mental state for the worse.
LOL my name is on what I write, dude. You’re the one hiding behind an anonymous handle. And either way, your “professional reputation, background, and the matters you have handled (whatever they are, since nobody knows, since you’re hiding behind an anonymous handle)” speak for a lot less than the fact that you still can’t manage to admit that you had no justification at all for calling me a liar re: deleting your comment when in fact I didn’t.
Really do appreciate it re: the Whore review. And believe me, I’m trying re: “getting over it and getting back to writing more quality articles/entries,” but it really doesn’t help when people are slamming me for crimes that I didn’t commit.
But more importantly, when will somebody stop this crazy person who is so "silly" as to suggest that losing a supportive boss and going from sack leader to forgotten man in a career as high stress as professional football might impact someone’s mental state for the worse.
How can someone on the outside make such an outrageous claim? We have no idea what is going on in Benard’s life.
I can’t fathom how Mangini being fired somehow leads to a motorcycle accident. Somehow we are missing approximately 1,000 steps in between, even if the correlation was true.
He wasn’t joking. I read that article, as well as about 49 of his responses to bloggers who questioned his line of thinking. He was serious. It was just another prime example of his ongoing delusional obsession with the Mangini firing.
Don’t you remember when he tried to say he was joking about the whole thing? And then later defended his post as though he legitimately believed firing Mangini had a legitimate causal effect on Bernard’s crash?
We have no idea what is going on in Benard’s life.
I completely agree, which is why the column was written in response to folks in the press (specifically on the radio) whose immediate reaction to the accident was to heap condemnation on Benard (as noted at the very beginning of the column). I was merely suggesting there might be something else going on here.
As for this:
Somehow we are missing approximately 1,000 steps in between, even if the correlation was true.
Not at all. 1.) losing a supportive boss and going from sack leader to forgotten man in a career as high stress as professional football might cause or inflame depression (even if only at the margins, as noted in the column) —> 2.) a common symptom of depression is increased risk taking —> 3.) based on the reports of the accident there’s reason to conclude that Benard was engaged in excessively risky driving, which caused the accident.
I guess we can agree to disagree as to how “outrageous” it is to so much as suggest a possible connection here, but I’d suppose even the DBN thought police might consider this grievous offense more forgivable given that it was largely in response to folks who jumped to condemn Benard.
Relatedly, if I was moderating this community, I’d be disturbed by the quickness of so many of its members to attack someone whose opinions they disagree with or (apparently) don’t understand.
Relatedly, if I was moderating this community, I’d be disturbed by the quickness of so many of its members to attack someone whose opinions they disagree with or (apparently) don’t understand.
3.) based on the reports of the accident there’s reason to conclude that Benard was engaged in excessively risky driving, which caused the accident.
And this is where we don’t agree. Even if the first two steps were true, which is a huge assumption is it’s own right, it still doesn’t mean the third step is a logical conclusion. There are a million and one reasons why people take risks, drive like a-holes, and do stupid things on motorcycles. There isn’t enough reason in my eyes to even lay part of the blame at the feet of poop canning Mangini.
Relatedly, if I was moderating this community, I’d be disturbed by the quickness of so many of its members to attack someone whose opinions they disagree with or (apparently) don’t understand.
I take offense to this. I think I, and the other mods, are more than fair. In fact, I even posted in the other thread that I was glad you were posting here. But, if you are going to post crazy theories, (and suggesting that Benard’s motorcycle accident is related to the firing of Mangini is crazy IMO) you better be willing to own that and defend what you believe. That is what makes DBN the best Browns forum on the web (no offense).
Trust me, there are numerous people on here who think my views on The Browns, JaMarcus Russell and general football beliefs are insanity. But every single one of those people have the option of calling me out, and I will defend my views.
The reason so many people are passionate it’s because we have a long history or debating with one another. I don’t see why that is a bad thing.
Hey, check out some of the articles while your here BTW. Very informative blog. You might actually learn something about football over here. Lots of give and take and intelligent analysis and discussion (with the occasional asshole passer by of course, as we’ve seen recently).
One other note – there was a pretty good comment from notthatnoise on the thread and I’m sorry I didn’t save it so I could post it here (along with rufios). But rufio had done such a lengthy and exhaustive analysis,
I saved it because I felt like it needed to be preserved.
(the article was an “Xs and Os” breakdown of the A.J. Green / Haden matchup from last Sunday, and contained some criticisms of Haden, albeit it was a balanced and interesting assessment overall I thought)
As I said, I saved rufio’s response to the originally linked article. Here it is for anyone who’s interested:
(from rufio:)
This analysis is ok, but I disagree strongly on several points.
First, the coverage wasn’t man-free, it was man-1 robber. Fujita is playing as
the "rat in the hole" in an underneath zone. Because the defense has zone
defenders both short and deep, it’s even more important for the corners not to
get beat inside or underneath.
The jams were fine, and obviously the refs didn’t think it was holding either.
In fact, I think they were great based on the picture in the article. Both DBs
attacked the outside shoulder of the WR, walling them off from the outside and
sending them to the help.
Haden funneled the route into an area where a good FS makes a play on the
receiver. Of course you would like Haden to be a little bit tighter in coverage,
but he was playing his leverage and not going to get beat underneath in a trail
position.
No one except AJ Green is getting to that football. The only chance a defense
has there is to hit him while he’s stretched out like that and jar the ball
loose. Revis isn’t getting to that ball, Champ Bailey isn’t getting to that
ball, Nnamdi isn’t getting to that ball. It’s a great throw and a great catch
and the reason Green was a top 5 pick.
While Haden needs to be tighter to Green in order to hit him/try to knock his
hands off the ball/hold one of his arms down to make it a one-handed catch
attempt, Mike Adams needs to be in on this play. The vertical route by Caldwell
here is designed to run the safety deep out of the play, but as you can see both
WR ended up within 5 yards of each other and also within a few yards of the left
hash. If Adams truly is a MOF safety here, he should be right in the middle of
the field…about 3 yards from this play. Caldwell doesn’t run him off over the
top because Green is so fast he’s already making the catch by the time Caldwell
gets to that area. With both deep WRs there, Adams has to make a play on the
ball/receiver. And he should be pursuing inside-out, meaning that if Green does
make the catch he should be there to tackle Green on the inside, with Haden on
the outside trailing to make the tackle. "What safeties do" shouldn’t be
watching a WR make a catch in front of you and then letting him run by you for
yards.
Lastly, on the second play with the double move, Haden is playing as a deep
sideline defender in C3. Many, many coaches require the CBs to use this
side-step technique. It isn’t a personal choice by the DB, it’s how they play
the coverage (i.e. it was Charlie Strong/Urban Meyer/Dick Jauron’s decision to
use, not Haden’s). Like any other strategy or tactic in the game of football, it
has both advantages and disadvantages, both of which are on display here. It
allows corners in C3 to aggressively jump routes. Typically teams "pattern
match," meaning that if #1 and #2 break, Haden can jump the route. Using the
side step technique gives the DB a better view of both #2 and the QB/ball if it
is thrown. A disadvantage is that if you do get beat outside, you really get
beat. This means your pass rush had damn well better get there on a double move
such as Green’s.
Both of these plays expose the weakest area of Joe’s game right now: he’s so
aggressive he’s not always excelling in the nuances of coverage, he’s vulnerable
to double moves, and he bites hard so he can’t always recover in time. While I’d
rather have a guy who is too aggressive than not aggressive enough, Joe has to
learn how to refine and control his skills, and how to commit his weight to a
play only when the receiver has. While I don’t think a CB like Revis can
completely stop the first throw to Green, he could stay with a WR on the
second.
same question. there was some good stuff in there.
DontCallMeJoey - December 2, 2011
This was talked about already. He wants nothing that proves him wrong on his lil’ site.
He just wants site views and that’s why he’s here now.
And he’s a lawyer. He bitches about Colt lying when he, himself, lies for a living. Screw Frowns. He’s a complete jerk off.
Brownie's Year - December 2, 2011
Hey, I’m a lawyer too. But not offended; an astonishing number of lawyers do lie all the time with no shame and not for the betterment of their clients.
TheDriveStillHurts - December 2, 2011
liar
pwndabear - December 2, 2011
Yeah, really.
Brownie's Year - December 2, 2011
Sorry folks – I deleted that post. I also emailed Bernie, and included rufio’s comment in my email (his analysis analysis in response to the article).
As I mentioned to Bernie, I deleted it for two reasons:
1) There were only two comments in the entire thread on topic (a comment from ntn, and rufio’s analysis).
2) I decided I’d prefer not to drive any more traffic to the Frowns blog. IMHO his blog has nothing much of redeeming value to add to the blogosphere. In fact, to the contrary, I find most of his articles bordering on downright objectionable and misleading. Simply put, I consider him to be a pompous lunatic.
(That said, the occasional “Xs and Os” articles from his other writer are very good).
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
Disagree with your decision, but it’s your fanshot, free to do as you please.
Roger Dorn - December 2, 2011
The fanshot had been up for a couple of days. There were a grand total of 2 comments about the topic of the fanpost, and about 47 comments talking about (and responses from) Cleveland Frowns.
I probably would have left it up if that hadn’t been the case. But that, combined with the fact that the thought of being responsible for driving traffic to his site made my stomach turn made me decide to delete it.
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
I guess I view the desire to not drive traffic to his site as petty over differences of opinion. If I thought he had been acting inappropriately, I would agree.
Roger Dorn - December 2, 2011
Its a simple matter of principle. The word “inappropriate” is about right. I do think half of the crap he spews out over there is inappropriate and misleading.
At any rate, lets not get into a long debate about it. I respect your opinion of him and anyone else who likes to read his blog. He seems like a pretty smart guy, and from what I understand lots of his older stuff was pretty good. I just think he’s gone off the tracks of appropriate, rational commentary with what he’s been writing in recent months. Just my opinion.
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
He actually knows a crap load about Cleveland and Cleveland sports history and has some excellent posts on things like curses, Chief Wahoo and interesting stuff. You have every right to be mad at him, but I wouldn’t necessarily just dismiss him as a jerk even though the Mangini caused Benard to wreck his motorcycle stuff has been pretty nutty.
HenryDawg - December 2, 2011
I used to read Frowns before I found DBN.
emily522 - December 2, 2011
I hope your stomach improves soon, Burnt.
Dorn, Henry, etc. thank you for recognizing honest disagreement for what it is.
Just have to add re: Benard that depression is real and often the smallest things make the biggest differences. A butterfly flaps its wings …
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Cleveland Frowns - December 2, 2011
Yes, depression is real, and it is responsible for a ton of deaths every year. It is not the person’s fault and it can’t just be “snapped out of” and often requires medication and then it is very hard to find the right medication. Depression is a horrible disease.
All that said, your post re Benard was still absurd and a self-parody. The fact that you recognize that depression is a real and serious medical malady has nothing to do with the silliness of your post.
TheDriveStillHurts - December 2, 2011
Yes real and serious and goes untreated with millions and millions of people if you believe the literature. But more importantly, when will somebody stop this crazy person who is so “silly” as to suggest that losing a supportive boss and going from sack leader to forgotten man in a career as high stress as professional football might impact someone’s mental state for the worse. At least there are lawyers like you to keep certain message boards free from such lunatics. Keep up the great work.
Anyway, counselor, you never retracted the tantrum you threw about my supposedly deleting your comment when in fact it was there all along and you just didn’t click on the “load more comments” button at the bottom of the page. This strikes me as especially unbecoming behavior on the part of a member of the bar. Did I miss something? I’d like to think as highly of the local bar as I can.
Cleveland Frowns - December 2, 2011
Ah, I see that the comment in question has an IP address from Los Angeles and on your profile that you’re a Lakers and Dodgers fan. At least we’re not talking about the Ohio bar here, which is something of a relief, though this still doesn’t look good for you, counselor.
Cleveland Frowns - December 2, 2011
Email me and I will give you my name so you can report me to the state Bar of California. I am pretty sure my professional reputation, background, and the matters I have handled speak for themselves. By the way, calling a fellow lawyer “counselor” is rather Bush league and something you see on TV, not in real life. However, I recognize that that may be different in Ohio.
Again, as I’ve said a million times, I’ve been a fan of your writing in the past, and I agree with a lot of your broader points. I just think you’ve gone overboard with some of the — dare I say it — “tantrums” you have thrown over Mangini and Colt. I hope you can get over it and get back to writing more quality articles/entries. That being said, it is of course your site, and you can do with it as you please and your new style may just be working for you. But that new style strikes me as closer to Tony Grossi than to the old Cleveland Frowns I read until recently.
By the way, I enjoyed your review of The Whore of Akron and thought it was spot-on.
As to this
Keep up the straw-man arguments.
TheDriveStillHurts - December 2, 2011
LOL my name is on what I write, dude. You’re the one hiding behind an anonymous handle. And either way, your “professional reputation, background, and the matters you have handled (whatever they are, since nobody knows, since you’re hiding behind an anonymous handle)” speak for a lot less than the fact that you still can’t manage to admit that you had no justification at all for calling me a liar re: deleting your comment when in fact I didn’t.
Really do appreciate it re: the Whore review. And believe me, I’m trying re: “getting over it and getting back to writing more quality articles/entries,” but it really doesn’t help when people are slamming me for crimes that I didn’t commit.
Cleveland Frowns - December 3, 2011
Better than a Heat fan
emily522 - December 3, 2011
Tantrums?
TheDriveStillHurts - December 2, 2011
Tantrum!
bross09 - December 2, 2011
How can someone on the outside make such an outrageous claim? We have no idea what is going on in Benard’s life.
I can’t fathom how Mangini being fired somehow leads to a motorcycle accident. Somehow we are missing approximately 1,000 steps in between, even if the correlation was true.
Bernie19Kosar - December 3, 2011
No dude, he said he wasn’t serious about the article. He was totally joking.
rufio - December 3, 2011
He wasn’t joking. I read that article, as well as about 49 of his responses to bloggers who questioned his line of thinking. He was serious. It was just another prime example of his ongoing delusional obsession with the Mangini firing.
burntorangeandbrown - December 3, 2011
No dude, sarcasm.
rufio - December 3, 2011
You mean you are being sarcastic?
burntorangeandbrown - December 3, 2011
Don’t you remember when he tried to say he was joking about the whole thing? And then later defended his post as though he legitimately believed firing Mangini had a legitimate causal effect on Bernard’s crash?
rufio - December 3, 2011
No. Regardless, I’m certainly not interested in digging it all up.
The guy is a lunatic.
burntorangeandbrown - December 4, 2011
Good lord.
I completely agree, which is why the column was written in response to folks in the press (specifically on the radio) whose immediate reaction to the accident was to heap condemnation on Benard (as noted at the very beginning of the column). I was merely suggesting there might be something else going on here.
As for this:
Not at all. 1.) losing a supportive boss and going from sack leader to forgotten man in a career as high stress as professional football might cause or inflame depression (even if only at the margins, as noted in the column) —> 2.) a common symptom of depression is increased risk taking —> 3.) based on the reports of the accident there’s reason to conclude that Benard was engaged in excessively risky driving, which caused the accident.
I guess we can agree to disagree as to how “outrageous” it is to so much as suggest a possible connection here, but I’d suppose even the DBN thought police might consider this grievous offense more forgivable given that it was largely in response to folks who jumped to condemn Benard.
Relatedly, if I was moderating this community, I’d be disturbed by the quickness of so many of its members to attack someone whose opinions they disagree with or (apparently) don’t understand.
Cleveland Frowns - December 3, 2011
Welcome to Dawgs By Nature…
Simmsinns - December 3, 2011
you talk about thought police…but you have probably deleted more comments this week than DBN has.
bross09 - December 3, 2011
probablydeleted more comments this week than DBN has in the last monthAlso – he actually edits comments from bloggers. It really doesn’t get much lower than that.
burntorangeandbrown - December 3, 2011
I noticed he has the power of the edit.
bross09 - December 3, 2011
And this is where we don’t agree. Even if the first two steps were true, which is a huge assumption is it’s own right, it still doesn’t mean the third step is a logical conclusion. There are a million and one reasons why people take risks, drive like a-holes, and do stupid things on motorcycles. There isn’t enough reason in my eyes to even lay part of the blame at the feet of poop canning Mangini.
I take offense to this. I think I, and the other mods, are more than fair. In fact, I even posted in the other thread that I was glad you were posting here. But, if you are going to post crazy theories, (and suggesting that Benard’s motorcycle accident is related to the firing of Mangini is crazy IMO) you better be willing to own that and defend what you believe. That is what makes DBN the best Browns forum on the web (no offense).
Trust me, there are numerous people on here who think my views on The Browns, JaMarcus Russell and general football beliefs are insanity. But every single one of those people have the option of calling me out, and I will defend my views.
The reason so many people are passionate it’s because we have a long history or debating with one another. I don’t see why that is a bad thing.
Bernie19Kosar - December 3, 2011
Healed up right after I removed the link I had created to your blog.
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
Attaboy. Hang in there.
Cleveland Frowns - December 2, 2011
Hey, check out some of the articles while your here BTW. Very informative blog. You might actually learn something about football over here. Lots of give and take and intelligent analysis and discussion (with the occasional asshole passer by of course, as we’ve seen recently).
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
One other note – there was a pretty good comment from notthatnoise on the thread and I’m sorry I didn’t save it so I could post it here (along with rufios). But rufio had done such a lengthy and exhaustive analysis,
I saved it because I felt like it needed to be preserved.
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
OK — actually thought I was going crazy when I couldn’t find it.
TheDriveStillHurts - December 2, 2011
Same here.
rufio - December 2, 2011
(the article was an “Xs and Os” breakdown of the A.J. Green / Haden matchup from last Sunday, and contained some criticisms of Haden, albeit it was a balanced and interesting assessment overall I thought)
As I said, I saved rufio’s response to the originally linked article. Here it is for anyone who’s interested:
(from rufio:)
burntorangeandbrown - December 2, 2011
tl dr
Brownie's Year - December 2, 2011
tldr
pwndabear - December 2, 2011
tilldur
notthatnoise - December 2, 2011
HELLLURRRRR
Adrock2099 - December 2, 2011
As much as hate those movies, this was a hilarious sequence of comments.
Simmsinns - December 2, 2011
I love rufio
troy145 - December 2, 2011
DontCallMeJoey - December 2, 2011
bross09 - December 2, 2011
Thanks bud
rufio - December 3, 2011
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