McCoy has had 45, 61 and 40 attempts in the Browns' three losses, and is on pace to throw 694 times this season, which would break Drew Bledsoe's 1994 league mark of 691.
Its shocking until you realize that there are close to 10 teams that have one 1 or fewer games. A lot of those teams have looked worse in their losses than we have too. I think we are ranked where we should be. The worst 2-3 team, but better than the Cards, Panthers, Saints, etc…
I said this a lot last year, but we need to tailor the offense to our personnel, and not force feed an offense on what we have. You throw that many times, maybe, if you have Manning, Brady, Brees, or Rodgers. We have Colt McCoy at QB, not great WRs and a history of poor passing game. We do have a pretty good offensive line and a RB that had a huge year last year. I know they believe in the WCO, but we aren’t ready yet personnel wise for their vision. Let’s give our RBs the ball more.
while i agree that at full strength the OL is pretty good, at this point, our OL borderline stinks, which makes this much passing even more unforgivable.
i think it’s hard to look at the offensive output this year and surmise that the line has played above average. i realize there are a lot of things that go into both run and pass blocking, but the lineman have not done their share (excluding thomas and mack)
On paper, yes. And I agree that we’ve been spoiled in the past by our line play. But, as a unit in real game situations, our QB has not had the amount of time to throw the ball as other QBs around the league. It doesn’t matter much if the LT and C almost never get beat if the RG and LG almost always do and cause the pocket to collapse.
Granted, Colt has nervous legs right now and isn’t comfortable, but have you seen how much time Brady has, for example? It seems that sometimes, he has all day. To counter my own argument, Brady has all day because he’s been proven to destroy blitzes in the first place and is less likely to face them, which Colt needs to do, like now. I mean, he called a bootleg into a blitz this past game with the safety standing there in open space to his right. As much as the line needs to play better, Colt and the WRs need to recognize relatively apparent blitz packages and get some nice YAC, reversing this cycle of 8 in the box.
interestingly, football outsiders has the browns OL ranked 26th in run blocking (6 teams worse than us) and 7th in pass blocking (6 teams better than us). they don’t go any deeper than that or do any kind of blended average, but that seems to pencil out to a pretty average OL to my untrained eye. good call, dorn.
Pass blocking – Teams are ranked according to adjusted sack rate, which gives sacks (plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and opponent.
Adjusted Sack Rate: Sack Rate represents sacks divided by pass plays, which include passes, sacks, and aborted snaps. It is a better measure of pass blocking than total sacks because it takes into account how often an offense passes the ball….
The statistic fails when applied to the Browns for two obvious reasons. 1. (see the title of this post – i.e. we have way too many pass attempts)
2. Colt is very good at escaping the sacks. Browns are tied for 4th in fewest sack allowed, but 23rd in the league in fewest QB hits allowed (i.e. he gets hurried and hit a lot, but hasn’t taken many sacks).
4th in fewest sack allowed, but 23rd in the league in fewest QB hits allowed
and you average those out and you get about 13th in the league, which sounds about right (maybe slightly high). Its not exactly going to work out like that, but if he starts taking more sacks, he is going to get hit less because some of those hits turn into sacks.
The statistic succeeds because it ranks the browns slightly lower than their overall sack rate because of how many times they pass
There is a both a mathematic and a logic fail here but I’m too tired to try to engage you in the 56 comment debate thread that it would become. So instead I’ll just concede the point, whatever it is.
I acknowledge the “mathematic fail” by saying its not going to work out exactly as the mean of sacks allowed and hits allowed.
The more times he gets sacked, the less he does get hit though because those hits turn into sacks.
A lot of it is because Colt is good at escaping the rush, but that is counteracted by the fact he seems to be holding onto the ball for longer than he should.
I think our O-Line could be higher if they truly could separate between the O-Line and the RB. Its virtually impossible to do, but even Football Outsiders shows that the Browns are hurt because our RBs haven’t been able to run well when they get holes.
The Adjusted Line Yards (which is where the 26th ranking comes from) is significantly higher than the yards the RB gets. Both the Browns and the Jets have poor RB play which cannot get to the 2nd level, but they are solid at getting positive yards (it surprised me too).
If we had a league average RB (like a willis mcgahee or a Ryan torain), the ranking could be around 20
I think the problem with running is the line isn’t getting push in the running game so they figure the average pass gets you more yards generally. this isn’t always the case since colt had a 4.5 ypa on Sunday.
We do need to run it more, but this is probably their rationale for passing.
So Dolphins owner Stephen Ross is consulting regularly with Eric Mangini? Shouldn’t he perhaps be consulting with someone who isn’t a two-time fired head coach in the NFL? What’s the problem, Rich Kotite was busy?
I’m shocked we got ranked so high.
TheDriveStillHurts - October 19, 2011
Me too. We’ve looked pretty ugly so far. Maybe Don Banks hasn’t actually watched a Browns game yet?
Off-the-Chain - October 19, 2011
Its shocking until you realize that there are close to 10 teams that have one 1 or fewer games. A lot of those teams have looked worse in their losses than we have too. I think we are ranked where we should be. The worst 2-3 team, but better than the Cards, Panthers, Saints, etc…
bross09 - October 19, 2011
Saints? I wish we were better than them.
Adrock2099 - October 19, 2011
Saints would destroy us.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2011
Now that David Bowens is gone they certainly would.
Off-the-Chain - October 19, 2011
wow, that was a slip-up. The Saints are also 4-2. I meant to say St. Louis but I dunno what my brain did there.
bross09 - October 19, 2011
Not if Mangini were coaching!
Roger Dorn - October 19, 2011
I see what you did there…
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2011
That’s a record that we really don’t want.
Kimble_79 - October 19, 2011
there is no such thing as bad publicity
pwndabear - October 19, 2011
See: Peyton Hillis controversy.
North Coast Flea - October 21, 2011
I can’t see us coming too close to the record once the cold games begin.
C.b.I - October 19, 2011
He’ll miss it by over 100.
johnf34 - October 20, 2011
this isn’t really the point, but sure.
DontCallMeJoey - October 20, 2011
I said this a lot last year, but we need to tailor the offense to our personnel, and not force feed an offense on what we have. You throw that many times, maybe, if you have Manning, Brady, Brees, or Rodgers. We have Colt McCoy at QB, not great WRs and a history of poor passing game. We do have a pretty good offensive line and a RB that had a huge year last year. I know they believe in the WCO, but we aren’t ready yet personnel wise for their vision. Let’s give our RBs the ball more.
Roger Dorn - October 19, 2011
while i agree that at full strength the OL is pretty good, at this point, our OL borderline stinks, which makes this much passing even more unforgivable.
i’m all for giving the rb’s the ball A LOT more.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2011
I still think the line is above average even with worse play from the G’s.
Roger Dorn - October 19, 2011
i think it’s hard to look at the offensive output this year and surmise that the line has played above average. i realize there are a lot of things that go into both run and pass blocking, but the lineman have not done their share (excluding thomas and mack)
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2011
I think we’ve been spoiled the last few years and don’t have a good frame of reference for what constitutes average line play.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2011
Basically what I am getting at. We still have the best LT on the planet, and a top 5 center. That alone puts us at average in my opinion.
Roger Dorn - October 19, 2011
On paper, yes. And I agree that we’ve been spoiled in the past by our line play. But, as a unit in real game situations, our QB has not had the amount of time to throw the ball as other QBs around the league. It doesn’t matter much if the LT and C almost never get beat if the RG and LG almost always do and cause the pocket to collapse.
Granted, Colt has nervous legs right now and isn’t comfortable, but have you seen how much time Brady has, for example? It seems that sometimes, he has all day. To counter my own argument, Brady has all day because he’s been proven to destroy blitzes in the first place and is less likely to face them, which Colt needs to do, like now. I mean, he called a bootleg into a blitz this past game with the safety standing there in open space to his right. As much as the line needs to play better, Colt and the WRs need to recognize relatively apparent blitz packages and get some nice YAC, reversing this cycle of 8 in the box.
chitown browns fan - October 20, 2011
I have seen how much time Tom Brady has, but that to me is a top 5 O line. I am merely saying average, and I still think we are there.
Roger Dorn - October 20, 2011
interestingly, football outsiders has the browns OL ranked 26th in run blocking (6 teams worse than us) and 7th in pass blocking (6 teams better than us). they don’t go any deeper than that or do any kind of blended average, but that seems to pencil out to a pretty average OL to my untrained eye. good call, dorn.
DontCallMeJoey - October 20, 2011
I’m shocked by the pass blocking rank.
chitown browns fan - October 20, 2011
Yeah I think they may have a failed statistic there.
HenryDawg - October 20, 2011
I am telling you, it can get much worse.
Roger Dorn - October 20, 2011
I think you have failed expectations.
notthatnoise - October 20, 2011
The statistic fails when applied to the Browns for two obvious reasons. 1. (see the title of this post – i.e. we have way too many pass attempts)
2. Colt is very good at escaping the sacks. Browns are tied for 4th in fewest sack allowed, but 23rd in the league in fewest QB hits allowed (i.e. he gets hurried and hit a lot, but hasn’t taken many sacks).
burntorangeandbrown - October 20, 2011
and you average those out and you get about 13th in the league, which sounds about right (maybe slightly high). Its not exactly going to work out like that, but if he starts taking more sacks, he is going to get hit less because some of those hits turn into sacks.
The statistic succeeds because it ranks the browns slightly lower than their overall sack rate because of how many times they pass
bross09 - October 20, 2011
There is a both a mathematic and a logic fail here but I’m too tired to try to engage you in the 56 comment debate thread that it would become. So instead I’ll just concede the point, whatever it is.
burntorangeandbrown - October 20, 2011
I acknowledge the “mathematic fail” by saying its not going to work out exactly as the mean of sacks allowed and hits allowed.
The more times he gets sacked, the less he does get hit though because those hits turn into sacks.
A lot of it is because Colt is good at escaping the rush, but that is counteracted by the fact he seems to be holding onto the ball for longer than he should.
bross09 - October 20, 2011
Fair enough. I’m really not trying to defend Colt BTW.
He has flat out sucked this year.
burntorangeandbrown - October 21, 2011
You would have to be a huge homer to try to say Colt is good this year
bross09 - October 21, 2011
I AM a huge homer and I’m saying he has flat out sucked this year.
burntorangeandbrown - October 21, 2011
I was implying even huger than you.
bross09 - October 21, 2011
The pass blocking looks worse because McCoy can’t get the ball out/our receivers can’t get separation.
North Coast Flea - October 21, 2011
I think our O-Line could be higher if they truly could separate between the O-Line and the RB. Its virtually impossible to do, but even Football Outsiders shows that the Browns are hurt because our RBs haven’t been able to run well when they get holes.
The Adjusted Line Yards (which is where the 26th ranking comes from) is significantly higher than the yards the RB gets. Both the Browns and the Jets have poor RB play which cannot get to the 2nd level, but they are solid at getting positive yards (it surprised me too).
If we had a league average RB (like a willis mcgahee or a Ryan torain), the ranking could be around 20
bross09 - October 20, 2011
Mack is not a top 5 center
The Licensed Pessimist - October 21, 2011
Who’s your top 5
Roger Dorn - October 22, 2011
I’ll give you mine.
Mangold, Kalil, Birk, Pouncey, Mack
Roger Dorn - October 22, 2011
I think the problem with running is the line isn’t getting push in the running game so they figure the average pass gets you more yards generally. this isn’t always the case since colt had a 4.5 ypa on Sunday.
We do need to run it more, but this is probably their rationale for passing.
bross09 - October 19, 2011
That and constantly being down by at least a touchdown.
Adrock2099 - October 19, 2011
From what I’ve seen, it is my understanding that Shurmur has a very small “passing premium”. Too small.
rufio - October 20, 2011
We could just run a ball-controlled passing game out of 22 personnel and run the ball all the time with that personnel…
rufio - October 20, 2011
This is a testament to the fact that were not putting Colt in a position to win AT. ALL.
troy145 - October 19, 2011
Or maybe Colt isn’t putting the rest of the team in position to win.
notthatnoise - October 20, 2011
Yay over 3,000 yards passing?
rufio - October 20, 2011
5 yards at a time.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2011
Brownie's Year - October 20, 2011
i’m pretty sure you’d find some decent names on a list of 2-time fired coaches.
discoinferno083 - October 20, 2011
Eric Mangini would be one of them.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2011
Marty Schottenheimer
Brownie's Year - October 20, 2011
More than twice my friend.
TheDriveStillHurts - October 20, 2011
I thought three was better than two.
Brownie's Year - October 20, 2011
kotite reference is awesome
DontCallMeJoey - October 20, 2011
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