That didn't take long.
Hours after the Eagles named Mike Vick the starting Quarterback, according to Anthony Gargano of WIP in Philadelphia, the Cleveland Browns placed a call to the Eagles to test the waters of a Kevin Kolb trade.
Reportedly the Browns were told that Kevin Kolb is not available at this time. That isn't surprising, after all what if Vick plays poorly in the next two games? Is it crazy to think that Andy Reid will make the move back to Kevin Kolb?
The interesting thing is if Vick plays well. Vick has been playing out of his mind. If Vick continues his excellent play then maybe the Eagles decide that having a back-up making over 12 million dollars is a trade chip worth cashing in. Another factor that could push a deal along is that with no salary cap, there would be no penalty in trading a massive contract.
I'm not going to pretend that I know what the asking price for Kolb would be, but I assume that it would be around the same for McNabb. Count me in.
Trade deadline is October 19th.
H/T to StuckinPA for the tip.
0 recs | 605 comments
I’d trade a second and maybe a 4th for him. If the asking price is a top-ten pick, I’d pass.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
This explains my feelings perfectly.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
Definitely NO if they are asking for our 1st RND pick. I personally would like to see Mark Ingram in a Browns uniform next year. If we can get him for a second round pick, I think it’s worth the risk.
Ceezy - September 22, 2010
Ingram isn’t anything special. He’s a really good college back, but his O-line makes him look better than he really is (which is why his backups put up great numbers when he’s out). Besides, with Hardesty coming back next year we have many other areas to improve besides running back.
Buckeye Brad - September 22, 2010
Seems like planning anything around Hardesty is foolish, though I agree that we have other needs.
dgcambridge - September 22, 2010
First round pick of an RB is a luxury pick — it’s for teams that already have a lot pieces in place (doesn’t explain the Bills’ idiotic pick of Spiller, but that’s the Bills). That’s why you see a lot of RB’s go at the end of the first round. You can find servicable RB’s throughout the draft. Not true of so many other positions.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
I think he’ll be better than anything we have. Our offense is pathetic right now. His backup looks good because he is really good, not because of their O-line.
Ceezy - September 22, 2010
But the offense’s main problem is the QB and lack of elite WR’s, not running back. We have much more important needs than running back right now.
And I know his backup is good as well, and I’m not saying Ingram isn’t really good because he is, just that he’s not an Adrian Peterson-type back who we MUST take if we get the chance. He’s not a guy who I would build my offense around.
Buckeye Brad - September 22, 2010
somewhat agree. I think Ingram will be a very good RB in this league, he is just nothing special like you said.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I like the idea of Kolb and Green, but we have passed on L.T. and A-P in the past. I would just hate for us to pass up on another RB when right now we have Harrison and Hillis (who both have fumble-itis right now) and Hardesty (who has a proven track record of not being healthy). We need a #1 RB, a #1 WR, and a #1 QB. I guess I’ll be happy with getting any of those 3. We don’t have a stud DE right now, but our defense is playing pretty well and is not the problem. We addressed a lot of defensive issues this year. I would like to see the team address more of the offense this upcoming offseason.
Ceezy - September 22, 2010
Why do we need a #1 RB?
Cap'n Snegiryov - September 22, 2010
I’m with ya. Give me a top flight O-Line and we can have guys off the street run for 5 YPC.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
We have a very good O-Line and our leading rusher after 2 games has 85 yards. 5 YPC…not with what we have. Apparently we should go get some guys off the street!
Ceezy - September 22, 2010
No, we have a great left side and POS right side.
Not Bery good overall. Also, our line is more built for pass block, not rush.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
Right side of the line hasn’t been as bad as last year. Lauvao should also help when he starts playing.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
I am eagerly waiting the return of Lauvao.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
“we can have guys off the street run for 5 YPC” if our OC learns how to play-call.
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
so by that logic we should have taken CJ spiller. we should take every top RB with our first round pick until we get a LT or an AP. you know, the 2nd and 3rd rounds are where you find the Frank Gores and MJDs of the world.
I think a #1 WR is much more important. many teams don’t have a #1 RB and can still run it with a backfield tandem or committee. However, every team needs a #1 WR (or at least 2 excellent #2s like Baltimore has) to be successful in the passing game.
If you want to have success throwing it, you need the guy who will consistently get 70-80 catches and 1000 yards. i am not sure if MoMass is that guy and even if he eventually produces like that, he doesn’t have the elite skill set that scares defenses. AJ green is 6’4 with good hands and runs a 4.4 40. HE can scare a D.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Agreed. And a #1 QB is most important.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
yeah. i think however we are talking about IF we get kolb with our 2nd round pick…at least thats what I was assuming.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Yes I have to agree. This team needs a quality QB and a wideout that is pro bowl level.
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
I never said to take a RB every year with our #1 pick. I’m saying we’ve never taken a stud RB #1 when we’ve had a chance. How often do you get a Frank Gore in the 3rd Round? Aren’t you tired of us taking RB’s and WR’s in the later rounds? It seemed like 4 years in a row we took a WR in the 2nd round, and we did it again with Robiske and Mo Mass. Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow (although head-cases/problems) were at least productive. I think our leading reciever is Moore with 3 rec for 87 yards, and leading rusher is Harrison with 85 yards in two games! And what teams are you talking about that run it successfully without a #1 RB?
Ceezy - September 22, 2010
You can find stud RB’s outside of the top ten. Chris Johnson was picked 28th, I think, and a lot of great backs come out of the second round. Taking a RB in the top 10 is a luxury we can’t afford right now. Teams have proven that you can run the ball in the NFL without an elite RB if you have a great offense around them.
Buckeye Brad - September 22, 2010
more often than you think.
2006 NFL draft: 4 RBs taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. 1 is MJD and the other is a good Change of pace back
2005: 5 RBs taken, 1 is gore, and 2 others are solid backups.
2003: 3 RBs taken, all good rotational backs.
2002: Portis and Brian Westbrook, plus 2 good rotational guys
I could go on, but you get the picture. while these names aren’t amazing, they are better than some like TJ Duckett, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones, Cadillac Williams, Laurence Moroney.
Take away the value of the picks and make the picks equal value, its just as safe to take a running back in rounds 2-3 as it is in round 1. However there is a huge difference in value of the picks.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Au contraire, we took the mighty William Green! How’d that work out?
Good running backs come out of nowhere all the time, and the Browns have two and a half serviceable running backs right now. For that matter, Ingram is not an Adrian Peterson talent, not even close. I would be furious if we took him with our first pick.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
did you say “With Hardesty coming back”? We cant depend on a broken down young runner..face it some players with injury histories will always have injuries, the Browns took a chance and that one didnt work, lets hope TJ Ward works.
But I somewhat agree on the other areas.
Red-Right-88 - September 23, 2010
it’s one injury. It’s certainly not encouraging, but let’s wait a bit before completely writing him off.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Actually there was the injury that kept him out of most of the preseason and then the injury sustained after seven or so snaps in the last preseason game. But, I don’t see any point in writing him off yet either.
JustBob - September 23, 2010
I’m not saying that we can count on him, but we also can’t give up on him already and waste a top 10 pick on a running back when we have many more pressing needs.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
That seems to preclude the possibility that Ingram’s backup is really, really good — which he supposedly is.
Western Reserve - September 23, 2010
I know that, as I said above. Again, Ingram is a good running back, but I don’t think he’s going to be a great NFL back and certainly not worth a top 5 pick by the Browns next year when we have many other needs. I’ve repeated myself many times if you read the comments above.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
I see that now. I’m in general agreement with you here.
Western Reserve - September 23, 2010
If we can trade a 2nd for Kolb, and then end up in the top 5 and get AJ green, I love that young offense.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
They’ll need a backup if they deal Kolb – maybe they would take a third rounder if we throw in Seneca Wallace.
woodsmeister - September 22, 2010
Uh, no.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
If H+H believe he is the real deal, I’d say we give them a 2 and swap first round picks with them (if they want a top 10 pick). Or, even give them our first outright and they give us their two.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Swapping first round picks would be a no for me.
That would cost us a chance at AJ Green or an elite pass rusher.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
If Holmgren and Heckert believe he has a 50 percent chance of being a legit franchise QB, I think he is worth an elite pass rusher.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Also, no guarantees that the elite pass rusher we draft turns out to be one — some do flop of course.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Sure, doesn’t mean I want to pass on the chance for one.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Franchise QB> Elite Pass rusher
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
We may have the number one pick overall.
I’m not swapping that for Kolb. I would rather stay there and take Ryan Mallett.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Eh, #1 pick when the cap is restored, no thank you.
But you do bring up an indirect point. We may trade for Kolb and only see his true potential already two years down the road in 2012
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
I assume that a rookie cap will be part of the new CBA, which not only makes the 1st pick more affordable, but it also makes it MUCH more valuable in trade.
Kolb isn’t worth that.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Anyways, even today, the first pick in the draft is still very valuable, and is really the only pick in the top ten that is highly coveted. But I don’t see us getting it.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
bross09 - September 22, 2010
buffalo would pass a quaility player in order to draft a turn when their potties are already overflowing.
they have no draft logic in comparison to needs whatsoever.
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
a turd*
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
then again, it is hard to judge because they have a new staff now. Nix is from SD and their Asst. GM was in Pittsburgh and both organizations know how to build a team.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I really hope they install a rookie cap, then I’d be all for it.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
I think that will be the number one priority with the new CBA.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
If it is an equal chance at a franchise QB or an elite pass rusher (top 5 or 10 in the league), who do you go for? I’d go with the QB.
Of course, I am not saying the chances are equal — but if Holmgren and Heckert believe they are, I would defer to them.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
No first rounder, or second rounder for me. The Browns could be looking at a top 5 pick in the first round. Kevin Kolb is not worth that or even a Top 40 pick. This is my opinion.
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
My guess is that the Eagles would want a QB in return as a back up, so a 2nd + a Browns QB would be worth it.
OSUMoneyball - September 22, 2010
I would trade a second and Wallace/Delhomme for Kolb.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
Yep.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
Eagles wouldn’t want any part of Delhomme or Wallace.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
I can see Wallace, maybe, as a stop gap backup to Vick since he’s a similar style of player.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
Good point. Whilst having a scrambling QB as a shock option (wildcat/ cyclone etc) is nice, having a completely different style of QB as backup isn’t so good; it means the OL can’t focus on protecting one style of QB for one.
I don’t think Kolb has really shown enough to trade for as yet. Certainly not a high 2nd.
LondonBrown - September 22, 2010
a second and wallace and delhomme for kolb, then we can send some jock straps to denver to get brady back.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Now that’s a waste of perfectly good jock straps.
North Coast Flea - September 22, 2010
If i make them used would we have a deal?
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
Yeah, but you have to be pretty sure there’s no stinkage.
JustBob - September 23, 2010
I would do this in a heartbeat, and I can’t believe that so many people have voted no so far. Heckert knows Kolb, so if he thinks he can be a successful starting QB then a second round pick would be a great deal. And I’d throw in either Wallace or Delhomme so the Eagles get a backup QB.
Buckeye Brad - September 22, 2010
Agree.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
This. Our second round picks from the last two year:
MoMass
Brian Robiskie
TJ Ward
David Veikune
Montario Hardesty
I think all of these (with the possible exception of Veikune) were good picks at the time. However, the odds that you get a stud — TJ Ward possibly — are still not that good. Kolb, if H+H believe is he for real, is worth the risk of losing out on another Robiskie.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
My only disagreement is, the Browns should of drafted better with the second round picks. It appears at this point in there young careers that Robiskie and Veinkune were reaches in the second round. Veikune no question.
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
Agreed.
I legitimately think Kolb looks average so far because he has had almost absolutely no playing time. He seems like a legit QB that can transcend to good or franchise.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
100% agree. Surprised at the no’s.
dgcambridge - September 22, 2010
/agree that we should try for Kolb. I’m just happy to see the Browns in the conversation about a top tier free agent. It is just amazing to me to see the Boldins, Hoshmanszadas and Vincent Jacksons go by with nary a mention of the Browns when we obviously need a top tier receiver.
There is no guarantee that Kolb will step up to become a top QB but that is never the case unless you are trading for a guy like McNabb or Brees. And we know from long and painful experience that drafting a QB high in the first round is no guarantee.
I say if we can get him without giving away the farm (say for our second pick and a QB) we should go for it.
Brownsyup - September 22, 2010
Our name wasn’t in the conversation of those receivers because they all have major issues.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
Can you elaborate? What do you mean by “major issues?” Are these issues big enough to offset…
Boldin 2009 84 rec 1024 yds 4TDs (on a team with 2 other very good receivers) I googled his name and I couldn’t see any DUIs or anything like that. The Browns should have tried to get this guy.
Houshmandzadeh 2009 79 rec 911 yds 3TDs – not a lot on him if you google his name either. What are his major issues?
Jackson 2009 68 rec 1167 yds 9 TDs – sure he’s a hold-out but I actually think maybe this guy deserves a new contract after the numbers he put up last year. I think the “major issue” with Jackson has more to do with the Chargers.
Massaquoi + Robiski + Stucki 60 rec 928 yds 4TDs
So basically if you add up all our receivers they look like any ONE of these guys and you don’t even TRY to get one of them because they have some kind of issues? It is this kind of thing that makes a perpetually bad team. And I know, you are going to say that we had crappy QBs last year and that is true. But maybe they (and this years QBs for that matter) would look a little better if they had someone to throw too. Not going after good free-agent receivers when we have what we have is practically criminal.
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
Jackson’s “major issue” is a DUI. Has nothing to do with the Chargers.
As for the others, I am pretty sure he was referring to issues in their game, not character issues. For instace, Boldin gets hurt every single season and misses quite a few games.
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
Boldin has constant injury woes.
Housh is old, is only a 3rd receiver now at best and he was a Bengal.
Jackson has character issues obviously.
Do you remember how well Braylon turned out? I mean because he was the prolific receiver himself wasn’t he?
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
You are blowing smoke:
Boldin Games Started 2006-16 2007-11 2008-11 2009-15 This is football. That doesn’t seem too bad for a wide receiver with the kind of shots they take. I’m sure Robiski will start all 16 games every year the way he avoids getting hit. Of course you have to take his amazing stats with his “reliability”.
Housh has had over 70 catches and 900 yds every year since 2004. How is that a number 3? Does that make our crop of receivers #5s? So we going to get rid of Steinbeck because he was a Bengal? How about Zastidil? And who founded the Bengals? I don’t care where they come from as long as they make us better.
I’ll take Jackson’s character issues… what are we trying to build? A girl-scout troop? So when the Browns are 0-14 this year are you going to say “at least they have fine character… I’m so proud!”
I agree that Edwards was and is a big problem off the field… I think he was an order of magnitude worse than these guys plus he did not perform as well on the field—lots of drops.
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
until a few days ago Jackson was worse than Braylon. He also had Philip Rivers throwing him the ball and Antonio Gates relieving some pressure.
Missing that many games is not normal for a wide receiver. The numbers Boldin put up were with the benefit of Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald. We don’t have a hall of fame QB or a stud WR to make sure Boldin never gets doubled.
Housh has had that many catches because he’s playing as the number one in seattle. He is old and not nearly physically talented enough to be a real threat anymore.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
I guess I’ll just disagree with everyone on this.
until a few days ago Jackson was worse than Braylon. He also had Philip Rivers throwing him the ball and Antonio Gates relieving some pressure.Couldn’t you just as easily say that Jackson relieves the pressure for Gates? Is it the QB? Is it the reciever? This is a chicken/egg argument that is difficult to know either way with someone like Jackson that has only been on one team.
Missing that many games is not normal for a wide receiver. The numbers Boldin put up were with the benefit of Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald. We don’t have a hall of fame QB or a stud WR to make sure Boldin never gets doubled.Boldin would likely get doubled here which could open things up for our other receivers. You don’t think Boldin is an upgrade over any of our receivers?
Housh has had that many catches because he’s playing as the number one in seattle. He is old and not nearly physically talented enough to be a real threat anymore.Housh wouldn’t be a number one here? Who is better than him here? Wouldn’t be a good idea to have a guy that has been successful as he has helping our young receiving corps?
You HAVE to build through the draft AND free agency. If you try to build with draft-only you start losing guys before you have a whole team. So if you don’t grab up guys like Boldin, Jackson and Housh, who you gonna grab? Chansi Stucki?
This team needs better receivers. Massaquoi has potential but I’m not sure it is #1 potential. I think wide-receiver is a glaring need on this team and I’m not alone in that opinion. It is hard to evaluate what is happening at QB when you don’t have receivers with speed that can catch. The offense is anemic and it is not ALL due to Daboll.
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
Also, ALL OF THIS.
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
Repost due to blockquote fail.
I guess I’ll just disagree with everyone on this.
Couldn’t you just as easily say that Jackson relieves the pressure for Gates? Is it the QB? Is it the reciever? This is a chicken/egg argument that is difficult to know either way with someone like Jackson that has only been on one team.
Boldin would likely get doubled here which could open things up for our other receivers. You don’t think Boldin is an upgrade over any of our receivers?
Housh wouldn’t be a number one here? Who is better than him here? Wouldn’t be a good idea to have a guy that has been successful as he has helping our young receiving corps?
You HAVE to build through the draft AND free agency. If you try to build with draft-only you start losing guys before you have a whole team. So if you don’t grab up guys like Boldin, Jackson and Housh, who you gonna grab? Chansi Stucki?
This team needs better receivers. Massaquoi has potential but I’m not sure it is #1 potential. I think wide-receiver is a glaring need on this team and I’m not alone in that opinion. It is hard to evaluate what is happening at QB when you don’t have receivers with speed that can catch. The offense is anemic and it is not ALL due to Daboll.
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
Believe it or not, T.J. Housh has some issues. Maybe not notable off-the field stuff but his team mates weren’t that fond of him. One player (a certain Craig Krenzal) mentioned how he would be that ‘dive wide-out’, complaining about the lack of balls he got and so forth but that it was mostly overshadowed by the wide receiver formerly known as Chad Johnson. T.J. did do a good job of keeping to quiet until he hit free agency.
BrownDawg1409 - September 23, 2010
Dang… screwed up my block quotes. Sorry that is so hard to read.
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
you would be able to say that possibly if gates suddenly improved when V-Jax was there and aa good #1 WR. however, gates was a star before then and arguably had his best season when V-Jax was in college.
So we should get a guy like boldin who is injury prone and expensive just so he gets doiubled?
Housh is also expensive too, he is the oldest of the group. Housh can have a loud mouth too and sometimes be a distraction.
Yes, all of these guys have major issues and to give something major up for them as a rebuilding team would likely be a big mistake. however, a team like baltimore thats already established can take the calculated risk with them.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
No, I think we should get him so he can run concessions. :-) No matter how he makes the team better, if that be he draws coverage away from other receivers or makes plays himself, it is a good thing.
I completely disagree with this as a strategy for building up a bad team. You need to build through the draft and free agency or you’ll end up with what we have now. Where are the good players in free agency that don’t have some kind of issue? If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be free agents. Either they are getting older, want more money, have an off the field incident, mouth off to the coach… you show me the amazing high-character players out there the Browns can get for nothing. How are the Browns ever going to become an established team without grabbing up some proven players?
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
Grab them, but at the right price. Albert Haynesworth anyone?
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
I think this is the point — Boldin was at the right price last season.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
I agree.
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
I am in for Haynesworth.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
the thing you have to do is balance risk/reward and issues/money. If contracts didn’t exist and we could get a guy like boldin, I wouldn’t mind even with his issues. however, you have the fact that boldin is expensive and the financial risk is great and the reward may be a little better play on offense, but definitely not playoffs.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
The Ravens traded a 3rd and 4th round draft pick for Boldin and then signed him to a 3 yr extension.
Unless the Browns had knowledge that Boldin wouldn’t want to sign an extension in Cleveland I think this would have been a good way to upgrade at WR.
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
If you were Boldin, would you sign an extension in cleveland?
I would also be wary of someone who is getting older and has a long injury history. People don’t typically become more injury resistant when they hit 30.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Good points. The contract could have been an issue. But that would have been worked out before any trade. Baltimore did.
As for the injuries, I would take my chances. 3 years of Boldin + a 5th rounder from Arizona for a 3rd and 4th rounder. Reward > Risk in my eyes.
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
the reward>>Risk when you are a competative team. when you are the browns, Reward<Risk
bross09 - September 23, 2010
Mike Williams made the Seattle Seahawks after being out of the league. TJ Whosyourmama did not. That tells me everything I need to know about TJ.
woodsmeister - September 23, 2010
+1 on this
You play to the games! You don’t win games without talented players. He will find out this weekend in Baltimore.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Well thank you Captain Obvious. I thought you played for the free Chunky ™ Cambell’s soup at the end of the game but what do I know?
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
I like how you put the TM on the brand.
emily522 - September 23, 2010
Haha, my added touch ; ]
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
Suppose to be
You play to win the games.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
I hate to introduce myself like this
But are you serious? The Browns have been a joke under Mangini, are devoid of talent across the board and don’t win games.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
It’s hard to know who to reply to in this thread, but I’m going to start here.
First, at this point in his career, Housh is terrible. He was the wrong guy to include in this conversation. We shouldn’t have anything to do with him. Jackson has his own issues; I think he would be a great player for us, but obviously we aren’t targeting guys with character problems, and that’s fine.
However, Boldin absolutely could and should have been a target. He’s had a few injuries, yes, but one of them was a play where a guy broke his freaking face and he still came back after just a few weeks. If you spent that third rounder on a receiver, and you waited three years for him to develop, and then you got four years of Boldin-like production out of that guy — injuries and all — you would call it an amazing pick. He was a steal for Baltimore and he would have been a steal for us. So what if he gets doubled? Any good receiver we have is going to get doubled. That would open things up for everybody else.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
good points, but the part about him getting doubled is that he’s never really had to face that in his career, and we don’t know if he would be as effective.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
A Browns fan that gets it
It is amazing to me how bad GM’s around this league that get a pass from their friends in the electronic and print media.
Vincent Jackson is a top 10 WR and should be playing for someone and yet he sits. Boldin was cheap. Housh will help the Ravens win games. What to know what Owner and GM want to win? Look at who they pursue or more importantly don’t pusue for your answers.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
If the Browns had the Ravens roster entering this season, our GM would have also pursued Boldin. Your inability to comprehend how to supplement a team with less talent and what it takes to get there is why you don’t understand where we are coming from.
I also want to add that rooting for a bad team does not make us less knowledgeable as a fan base.
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
I do not wish to insullt you
Please understand this. I only want good football dialouge. If I am not accomplishing this….I will go away.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Ok, no offense taken. I was reacting to your comment:
That seemed to me like you were shocked and amazed that there was a Browns fan that go it
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
Your second paragraph nails it. I wasn’t too hot on the other receivers but the price was right for Boldin.
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
Boldin did have a say on his contract though.
I have nothing to back up my belief, but I assume that Boldin would have rather played in Baltimore than Cleveland.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
Yea, I’m with you on that. I mentioned this up above in my discussion with notthatnoise
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
I think you mentioned this earlier, but we would have had the chance to negotiate with Boldin before trading for him. The guy was asking for a trade from a Super Bowl team — I think he was just looking for money, and would have been happy anywhere that gave him a good salary.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
+1
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Right.
I think we can all agree that if this team was further along we would have made a play for Boldin.
As it stands, Boldin probably didn’t want to come to a “rebuilding” team.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
I will say or rather ask, does anyone here really know if the Browns didn’t inquire? Might it be possible that it was already known by those who matter that Boldin would not want to negotiate wih Cleveland?
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Boldin was intersting in going to a place where he could compete
For a Championship. A phone call from Ray Lewis didn’t hurt either. That said, if the Browns had shown interest——- Tom Condon (Boldin’s agent) would have listened. It would have created great leverage for the player…..not to mention send a positive message to the fan base.
The Browns did not think the player could help them……….obviously.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Frankly, I think the Browns want no part of being involved in situations where all our involvement does is drive up the price; though, now that I think of it, driving up the price for the Forces of Evil and Darkness in the Football Universe might have been okay.
woodsmeister - September 23, 2010
Agreed — if a murderer calls me and tells me to do something, I’d listen.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 23, 2010
If a cop called you and told you take off your pants and get molested by your manager, would you?
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
what?
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
…You’ve never seen that video of a McDonald’s employee?
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
You’re weird.
golanbatrac - September 23, 2010
That happened here in KY. That manager wasn’t the brightest. Also the guy told the manager that the girl was stealing. It was fed up situation all the way around. I’m pretty sure though that the manager brought the girl to a closed room and wouldn’t let her leave, so she didn’t exactly let anything happen to herself. Also the guy called the manager not the girl and he pretended he was a cop.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
I remember that too. Wasn’t the manager found to have been acquaintances or something with the fake cop that callled?
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
how does that send a positive message to the fan base? “look! we failed to acquire someone because they think cleveland sucks!”
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
It wouldn’t be the first time. It’s been happening to the Cavs and Indians for years. We know Cleveland doesn’t suck, but it’s often hard to convince outsiders who have little to go on but all the negative publicity from the years we were a national punch line.
woodsmeister - September 23, 2010
right, all this would do is reinforce that national punchline. that’s hardly a positive message.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Holmgren's priority
It’s the GM’s responsibility to change the culture and perception of an organization with the moves he makes. Name a big-time WR that would gwet in line to play with Delhomme if you told him Delhomme was going to be his QB?
The success or failure of any organization starts at the top. Holmgren needs to do a better job. Having the owner around more certainly would help with the National perception of the Browns also.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
I really don’t think the owner is a problem.
Also, what do you expect of Holmgren in one year? this is literally his first season with the browns.
Also, Joe Flacco is not a good quarterback. He is serviceable, but nothing more. Jake Delhomme may be worse, but lets not pretend Joe Flacco is a selling point for the ravens.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Flacco's star has fallen (some)
He’s taken a beaten from some Ravens fans. I don’t rank among them. Flacco has a chance to be elite still even after looking very average the 1st 2 games of the season. He has weapons around him and they should be on full dispaly this weekend against your Cleveland Browns.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Ravens should run the ball, not pass it.
Browns secondary has been very good so far.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
Flacco has a chance to be elite because he’s young. But really he doesn’t have to be elite, you guys have shown you can win it all with a less than stellar QB. Screw you guys, but really I don’t think your FO is all that concerned about Flacco if he can protect the ball.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Lerner signs the checks and gets out of the way.
He lets the football guys do their job.
That is a perfect owner, IMO.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
Absentee Owner
Is my point!
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Is Daniel Snyder doing anyone any favors?
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
You have to forgive him. We all know about his former owner.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
owners don’t know football. better to keep them away from it. I couldn’t be happier with lerner.
well, maybe if he ignored DPM.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Jesus, do I really have to bring up Al Davis, Jerry Jones?
You can leave that shit in Oakland and Dallas. Like Bernie said, as long as Lerner keeps cutting the checks, Holmgren is the only guy people need to see.
Monsters of the Midway - September 24, 2010
Thankfully for us we let the seahawks make the mistake of signing TJ to be a number 1. For Baltimore he is perfect because he can pretty much go back to what he was in Cincy when he had his success.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
I would definitely do this for a 2nd as I think Kolb has a lot of talent.
I do think Kolb would cost more than McNabb but that’s just a guess.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
You are wrong on this one. I have watched him for 3 years and Kevin Kolb is not anything special. Eagles needed to change at quarteback with McNabb so they went with Kolb and Andy Reid saw this early it was the wrong move. I like near Philly I am telling you that is the deal here.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
or maybe Kolb’s backup was a former probowler and when he got the chance he played like it.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
Don’t you think if you are handed the starters job and you are quality quarterback you could hold on to it for more than a half of the first game? No matter who the back up was?
champion64 - September 22, 2010
he got a concussion, he didn’t get benched.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
He got benched, be informed if you want to comment
champion64 - September 22, 2010
As much as I would like to start another flame war,
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
link
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
He had a concussion, and now apparently he is being benched. He wasn’t cleared to play last week. I thought you lived near Philly? Apparently that doesn’t mean as much as you thought it did.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Correct. I live near Philly and that doesn’t mean jack. Reid said in the news conference today that Vick is just playing to well right now to sit.
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
HAHA!
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
When did you watch him for three years? He has only played in about 4-5 NFL games.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I don’t think it matters where you live near, since we all get to see him play, unless of course you mean you hang out with Reid or watch all their practices.
Also the Eagles did not need to change out McNabb, they chose to do so.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Man. Somebody stop the carousel, I think I’m going to be sick.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - September 22, 2010
You keep the carousel going until you get a good QB.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
No, we should have just stuck with Brady Quinn because I was getting dizzy on the carousel. /sarcasm. In other words, this.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Logically, you’re completely right, but nonetheless I am really, really tired of this particular ride. I’m also fully prepared for Kolb to turn out to be BQ Mk. II who we’ll spend two years justifying as needing more time in this system / scheme / OC’s sphere of influence and so on before we decide he’s not actually all that.
I know, I’m whining. I’ll shut up about it now. I’m voluntarily tagging out of any replacement QB conversations through the end of the month. Maybe October will look better.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - September 22, 2010
This is a good point Dawg. What is the deal with QBs and the Browns. Are they just that unlucky? Maybe it is a combination of bad coaching, bad/different systems and bad picks. Seems like we have all in effect. One thing I do know is that QBs that leave Cleveland never seem to amount to anything. Same with coaches.
To show my extreme nerdiness… it is sort of like carrying The One Ring to be a QB or coach in Cleveland. You end up feeling “thin, sort of stretched… like butter spread over too much bread.”
Brownsyup - September 22, 2010
Except eventually, well we know what happens. Also that was a pretty important task, not as important as us finding a QB, but definitely one worth undertaking.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Bruce Gradkowski for most accomplished former Browns (post ’99) quarterback?
Monsters of the Midway - September 22, 2010
Luke McNown is right there with him.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
Garcia?
Ryan Kelsey - September 23, 2010
ha, are the Omaha Nighthawks tearing it up this year?
Monsters of the Midway - September 24, 2010
Garcia went on to tear it up with philly.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
Omaha sold out their opener (24,000 tickets). Pretty Impressive. I hope this UFL thing succeeds and eventually spreads to other cities (like Columbus).
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
I hope we can integrate it into a D league.
SpecialBrownie - September 24, 2010
You have to trust in your front office to evaluate a QB appropriately. They are probably currently evaluating that we don’t have our future QB yet.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
/agree but it is still early. It will be interesting to see what folks say around here when the Browns upset a team they aren’t supposed to beat. That may happen in the next 4 weeks or so.
Brownsyup - September 23, 2010
Saints.
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
I’m all in.
I’d go as far as swapping first round picks but no higher. Ideal would be a second and QB swap, they can take their pick.
Maybe they’d want McCoy, another QB to groom minus a draft pick.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
Special Note to NFL Commentators. When a man’s name is spelled K-O-L-B, please do try to pronounce it correctly. His name is not Kevin ‘Corn on the’ Kolb. It’s Kolb’y’ Cheese.
Denarchy - September 22, 2010
Maybe he pronounces it with the “L” silent. Lots of names are not pronounced the way they are apparently spelled. I have never heard it pronounced with an “L”, so I presume that the commentators know something that I don’t.
woodsmeister - September 22, 2010
Kind of like Stephen Colbert. The ‘T’ is silent!
Denarchy - September 22, 2010
“It’s French, bitch!”
RelapsingDawgCatcher - September 22, 2010
I had no idea.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
kevin COBB not kevin KOLB. not everything is spelled phonetically…
bross09 - September 22, 2010
(sorry) not everything is pronounced the way it is spelled…
bross09 - September 22, 2010
?{}^^^()$&E0
Dawg Nuts - September 23, 2010
His name is pronounced “Cob”
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
…You must not know pronunciation very well.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
If Vick continues to play the way he is playing, the Eagles are going to trade Kolb by the deadline. Sell while his stock is high, get rid of the salary and resign Vick long-term. No brainer to me. As someone on the Eagles’ board pointed out, we forget how good of playmaker Vick was — he got that Atlanta team to compete consistently. With a better Eagles team, and if they can get him to be a more accurate passer, the guy could take the Eagles over the top in a big way.
I am rooting for Vick actually — and I say that as a dog-lover and animal-lover. I think he genuinely learned from his mistakes and also, because of the culture, didn’t fully realize how heinous his actions were.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Kill me now.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - September 22, 2010
Same here. I’m in no way an Eagles fan, but as long as he’s on that team, I’ll hope they do well. The guy is easily the most entertaining and exciting player in the league. The better he plays, the more fun I have watching games that don’t involve the Browns.
Simmsinns - September 22, 2010
Technically, Ryan gets the Falcons to compete better than Vick.
Vick never lead them to two straight winning seasons did he?
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
true…but Jim Mora Jr WAS his coach.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Good post
I’m rooting for Vick too. Oh, and by the way, I dont think that Kolb is the answer. He Matt Cassel in Philadelphia Eagles uniform. He can’t stretch the field vertically. The Browns don’t have any WR threats any way. Who’s Kolb going to throw to if he is aquired.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
about the same quality of receivers McNabb threw to for most of his career.
QBs make receivers great much more often than receivers make QBs.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
You convenietly left out a thing or 2
Such as Kolb is not as talented as McNabb from an arm-strength standpoint or as mobile. McNabb’s mobility allows him to be able to drive the football without being planted (be on the run). Kolb does not possses that skill.
Look, I would love for the Browns to aqiure Kolb and make him the starter. I would absolutely love it. For me it would rank right up ther with the other great moves Holmgren has made with the signing of Jake Delhomme and keeping Eric Mangini.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
I don’t know if Kolb will be a good QB, but I don know that the team that had both him and McNabb on their roster decided Kolb was the better option.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
And how is that decision
Looking right now? McNabb and Vick have resumes. Kolb does not. Next question!
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
It’s way too early to tell how that decision will play out. The guy got a concussion, and his backup played crazy good football. It’s not like we have any reason to believe Kolb sucks.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Matt Schaub didn’t have a resume when he went to the Texans. I don’t understand why this is such a difficult concept. Sometimes you take a risk on a guy’s talent.
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
Rec. Big time. People get all excited come draft time about guys that have no resume. The only difference I see here is that Kolb’s contract is much higher than your typical 2nd rounder.
Monsters of the Midway - September 23, 2010
But it’s just for one year, I think.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
Right. Next year he’s only getting paid a little more than 1 mil, which is why Shefter doesn’t think he’ll actually be traded this year.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
Earlier this season Kolb signed a two year contract extension through next season. His salary is low, but his bonus is 10 million or so.
Link.
If the Eagles do trade him, there would obviously be no cap acceleration this year.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
I was just going off of what Shefter said in that the price for a 1 million dollar QB is a lot higher than a 10 million dollar QB. They may try to wait until next year to trade him so they can ask more for him.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
Yes. EVERY great QB had no “resume” at one time in their careers, so that point is meaningless. Aaron Rodgers had no resume when the Packers let Favre go and that’s worked out pretty well for them. That is such a meaningless argument.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
Not to mention the Eagles had enough trust in Kolb to trade on pro-bowler and make another pro-bowler a back up to start this kid. That alone speaks volumes to me.
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
Also: Rivers, Favre, Brady, etc., etc.
Ryan Kelsey - September 23, 2010
Okay Roger
When Kolb flames out and is Cassel 2.0 I’ll remeber your comment.
I watched Kolb in pre-season and last season against KC, Saints and the Ravens. The Kevin Kolb from the pre-season is not the Kevin Kolb of last season. He looked unsure of where to go with the football, uncomfortable and was sensing ghost in the pocket during pre-season games and against GB in the first half.
Andy Reid apparently saw some of the same issues. Reid has stated the elevation of Vick is not health related as it pertains to Kolb. Reid is probably not telling the truth on some level…..but Kolb was sat for a reason.
Ravens One - September 23, 2010
Kolb was “sat” because we got a concussion. no other reason. then, his backup game in and played like the former superstar that he is. To me it seems as if this decision had much more to do with Vick than Kolb.
Also, nobody here is claiming Kolb will be awesome. we’re saying we don’t know and we’re willing to defer to the people who have seen him every day. You are the only one claiming to know if Kolb is good or not.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
*because he got a concussion.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
crap, his backup *came in…
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
The eye in the sky
Take the emotion out of the eqaution and look at Kolb’s play. Vick is just a better player. If you refuse to see this THEN that is okay with me. I am on record as saying Kolb and are made more each other. Kolb is the classic West Coast QB with the dink and dunk arm.
In order to win the Kevin Kolb’s of the world you must have great WR talent that can make explosive plays on slants, crossers and drag routes. Who in Cleveland is capable of this sans Joshua Cribbs.
If Kolb didn’t look good throwing to Desean Jackson, Macklin, Celek and Jason Avant why would he play well in Cleveland?
Ravens One - September 24, 2010
Once again, he played two quarters this year. You can’t seriously make judgements about a player based on two quarters. Last year in two starts — also a limited sample but certainly larger than this year’s sample — he completed 64% of his passes for 7.7 Y/A, so he looked pretty good then. I don’t know how you can base your evaluation of him on less than one half this year while ignoring the two games he started last season.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
One last thing
The difference with Kolb now and then (2009). Last season Kolb was a backup that……as you say……..saw limited snaps early. Once Kolb was GIVEN the job this season and played extensively (2009) DC’s were able to go to the coaches tape on Kolb. They say okay what does he do well…. now take that away and see if he can beat us another way.
It takes a minimum of 3 games of coaches tape to get a bead on a player. After that the players limitations are picked apart by the good DC’s around the league. This helps to explain why Kolb would look great early and not look so hot later.
Ravens One - September 24, 2010
But then QB’s (and their coaches) can make adjustments to the defensive adjustments and be successful again. Coaches and players on both sides of the ball are makiing adjustments in every game and throughout their whole careers, so it’s not fair to say that adjustments only come after 3 games and completely discount what someone does in their first few starts.
It seems like you’re going to make excuses for whatever argument or facts go against your point. If you want to think that Kolb’s success last year means nothing and he should be judged only by his one half of play this year then that’s your decision, but it doesn’t make any sense.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
You are right Buckeye and Roger
I have no clue about what goes into successful QB play. Here is what I am sure about……. I would love for the Browns to acquire Kolb and make him the franchise QB.
Ravens One - September 24, 2010
This is another straw man. We never said you don’t know what you are talking about, but if you are basing your opinion entirely off of what you have seen in the little amount of time Kolb has played, then you don’t have enough information to evaluate.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
This.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
You still can’t tell based on one half how the coaches schemed for the QB.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
WHAT???? one half of football is playing “Extensively”?
bross09 - September 24, 2010
have you read anything I’ve posted here? I’m on record numerous times calling Vick an amazing football player.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
The only thing his comment said is that sometimes you take a risk on talent. Which is something teams do every year in the draft. Get Kolb for a second? Most here would go for it. Get kolb for a 1st, I’m pretty sure everyone who has commented on the issue has said that’s too much.
We get it you don’t like Kolb, but what you’re not realizing is that no one here is calling him a sure thing, they are simply saying that right now he is probably worth the risk of acquiring him.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Thanks, didn’t read your post before replying.
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
I’d give a first for him if we could get some additional compensation, such as Philly’s second.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 23, 2010
To explain, we need a QB. H+H seem to think Kolb is a potential franchise quarterback. I’d rather take a chance on him than any QB we pick up in the first round.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 23, 2010
I hope you remember AND understand my comment because I did not predict anywhere if he will be a good player. I have merely questioned people’s belief that based on his current NFL experience we know everything we need to know.
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
I disagree. Schaub played a bunch for Atlanta as Vicks’ backup. I wanted him to be our starter after his ‘05 season.
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
Matt Schaub Atlanta: 2 starts, 0-2. 52.2 comp %, 1033 yds 84 comp 161 attempts, 6.4 ypa, 4 TD 2 INT, 69.2 QB rating
Kolb: 2 starts, 1-1, 60 comp %, 909 yds, 84 comp 140 att, 6.5 ypa, 4 TD 7 INT, 67.8 QB rating.
Schaub had 21 total passes more than Kolb when the trade happened (more passes than kolb has currently). the sample sizes are statistically insignificant, however I do not see a huge difference.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
What? Schaub played way more than you obviously would like to admit. Plus your stats are wrong. I’ll help you out after work.
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
Actually, he’s right.
Ryan Kelsey - September 24, 2010
He’s exactly right — here are their stats so you can check them out yourself.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KolbKe00.htm
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
the stats are right. got them from football reference. Schaub only started 2 games. he had very limited action. he threw more but 21 more passes more doesn’t mean jack.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
Speaking of profootballrefernece, I’m glad to see the site isn’t dead. They still haven’t updated the draft page to include 2010, but at least they’re tracking stats and posting box scores again.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
I don’t think it’s in danger of dying at all. It’s run by the same people who do baseball-reference.com and that’s a really popular site with plenty of traffic.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
No, it gets tons of traffic, I’m sure. I use the site all the time. I was just worried all summer that whoever runs the site had stopped updating since the 2010 draft had yet to be included in the draft section and there weren’t any profile pages for the 2010 rookies. They’re usually johnny-on-the-spot with updates, but the draft recap is now 6 months overdue.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
I guess that I’ve never checked out the draft section so I wasn’t aware that it hadn’t been updated. That’s unusual, because I know they update their box scores and stats every week.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
So basically the Kolb situation and the Schaub situation are identical?
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
pretty much. their stats are eerily similar. there are minor differences, but similar QB rating, similar # of throws and same amt. of starts.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
Both benched for Vick.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
I totally forgot about that and didn’t make the connection.
Both are accurate throwers, both have prototypical QB bodies, both are somewhat mobile, both have just enough arm strength to make all the throws…damn, i didn’t realize how similar they were.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
Most of your numbers are correct but some not the same as what I saw at NFL.com.
Schaubie had 6 td – 6 int 70.4 QB rate.
In 38 game appearances, Houston saw enough of the guy to give up 2 high draft picks for him to be their starter. And with Atlanta always on tv here at that time, I saw a lot of him too.
All I’m saying is that he did have a resume to Dorn. That’s all. And wasn’t comparing him to Kolb in any way, you did.
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
yeah. I got the TDs and INTs wrong. I read his 2010 numbers. Football Reference lists his QB rating as 69.2. Maybe you are calculating it some other way, like only taking his starts. however, you then go on to talk about game appearances as proof of something. However, this highly contradictory if this is what you are doing.
those 38 game appearances are a highly misleading stat. out of those 38 game appearances, only 24 did he throw a pass in. those 24 are irrelevant to his ‘experience’ as a QB/ now you are down to 14 where he threw a pass and only 6 of those did he throw more than 10 total passes.
Kolb has only one less game that he threw at least 10 passes in, and he has 21 less passes. However in this realm of stats it is very insignificant statistically.
People were arguing that Kolb doesn’t have much of a resume, which he doesn’t this was the basic argument. Dorn points out that Schaub was the same way. you counter in that Schaub DID have a significant resume. you interjected into a Schaub vs, Kolb debate so you inherently do compare Schaub to Kolb. Even if we are just talking Schaub, you are wrong and that is NOT a significant resume.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
I knew that, just said the wrong thing.
/see what I did there?
The point is I liked Schaub when he was in ATL. I saw him play enough to know he was gunna be big.
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
I liked him too. He didn’t have a ton of experience but I liked him.
I see what you did there. you gonna get all hot and bothered because I can’t read the format of football reference and am a lightweight idiot?
bross09 - September 25, 2010
but a 70.4 QB rating is what sold them to give up two high picks?
Roger Dorn - September 25, 2010
McNabb also had Westbrook for a bit of his career.
But I just checked the Bible and I didn’t realize McNabb was second in the AP MVP voting in his second year in the league, first full season starting.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Did anyone think in a million years that by Week 3, there would be rumors of the Eagles trading Kolb? I was headed into this season convinced he was their long-term plan at quarterback.
Chris Pokorny - September 22, 2010
This.
emily522 - September 22, 2010
Never saw it. But in hindsight, it’s hardly unforeseeable. They had a pro-bowl QB on the bench who is at an age where he should be at the height of his career. He is given a chance and he wows them. Not crazy.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
The only reason I felt Kolb would remain the starter was because I didn’t think the Eagles wanted to pay Vick starter’s money. I think in his limited time he has shown that he has lost a few steps, but I think at the very least he can offer close to what McNabb offered with better mobility. Pair him with McCoy, remember Atlanta anyone?, and some real speed threats at WR and Philly becomes very dangerous. Vick has threats at WR that are light years beyond what he took the NFC championship game.
I’m not saying Vick will become an MVP level player, but we can’t forget he hadn’t played in an NFL game in 2 years. I think the more he plays the better he’s going to be and don’t forget how much Reid likes to throw the ball. You make a defense have to guard their WRs deep all game and Vick is going to be the one rushing for 2000 yards not CJ. Which by the way is my game on Madden.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Just to be clear, the rumors seem to be that the Browns have called the Eagles about Kolb. I haven’t seen any rumors that indicate the Eagles are shopping Kolb. He could end traded or wind up being their guy for the next decade.
But I get your point, the NFL can be crazy.
Monsters of the Midway - September 22, 2010
Right- I’m under the impression that Kolb is still the unquestioned QB of the future for Philly.
Ryan Kelsey - September 23, 2010
Reid had said he wouldn’t rule out trading Kolb.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
My question is-If the Browns did trade for Kolb, does he start the first week after?
OSUMoneyball - September 22, 2010
I would think so
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
I’m confused. Not the week they trade for him right?
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
If we traded for him today, I would hope he is the starter on Sunday.
I assume we could dummy down our playbook (pun not intended) for Kolb.
Either that or only play him on certain series.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Two days ago I might have agreed with you, but I personally think if the trade were made today it wouldn’t be enough time.
Of course, it’s not like he could make our offense worse.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
I honestly think that we could have him hand the ball off and throw slants and gos all day and get better production than what we’ve been getting.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I just don’t see where Kolb has proven to be worth a second. Aside from one well played game what constitutes sending the Eagles a high second(possibly)?
rob525 - September 22, 2010
You have an excellent point.
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
Agreed. Someone should shed some light on this one, I know little about Kolb’s abilities.
Simmsinns - September 22, 2010
This.
emily522 - September 22, 2010
I’d like to find out more too. Funny enough, the Texans got Matt Schaub several years ago for two second rounders because the Falcons had…Michael Vick. This was despite the fact that Schaub had very minimal regular season experience. Wouldn’t it be something if the same thing happened here with Kolb, because of Vick again?
Chris Pokorny - September 22, 2010
And then Vick goes to jail for a cock-fighting league?
North Coast Flea - September 22, 2010
I didn’t think he played for the Jets?
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
But he’s got that new york swagger.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
True.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
and Kolb was drafted in the 2nd, so I don’t see a 2nd as THAT high.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
And, irony alert, he was drafted with the 2nd round pick we gave up for Brady Quinn. (Never tire of pointing this out.)
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Could you imagine if we got Kolb and he led became our QB for 5 + years? Talk about a Mulligan. Matter of fact, that’s what I would call him. The Mulligan Man.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I would support that as his nickname.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Seconded.
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
True Irony. Its hilarious and depressing at the same time
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Yea good example. The Texans front office was able to evaluate Schaub’s potential with little actual game proof. Again it comes down to the talent evaluation ability of the front office. We just have to have faith that they know what they are doing.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
Holmgren is a great evaluator of QB talent (at least so far, his gushing on Bradford seems right). And Heckert knows Kolb very well. Of course, they could be wrong, but I’d feel pretty confident if they decided that Kolb was their guy for the future.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Good NFL front offices can evaluate potential without seeing them “prove” it in game action.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
The NFL holds a draft every year. Not one of those guys has proven anything yet. Sam Bradford #1 overall. Kolb for a second rounder would be made on the same principles of drafting a guy plus a tiny bit of NFL experience.
Monsters of the Midway - September 22, 2010
DO NOT and I REPEAT DO NOT WISH KOLB on the BROWNS
I live near Philly and it was obvious before the “concussion” Kolb is being replaced because he is not a starter. Honestly I am telling you I would rather have Delhomme. YES I SAID IT. We do not want Kevin Kolb. Colt McCoy before Kevin Kolb. Michael Vick was given the job becasue his play was so much better than Kolb. Kolb will not be able to cut it in Cleveland.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Kolb is not in any long term plan for Philly. He is their version of Charlie Fry (better a bit than Fry but result the same) I live here I am telling you Kolb wont cut it.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Well, you’ve been wrong about everything else, so I guess I’m all in on Kolb.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
Look no kidding aside, people in Philly (who hated that Vick was on the team) were cheering for him from the first game. The public wanted Vick and they do not want Kolb. Andy Reid made the right decision.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
How can any of you think this guy is worth a 2nd round pick. His stats are awful and he is benched (forget the concussion crap) 1 half into his first full season as a starter for a 30 year old quarterback out of prison. HE PLAYED ONE HALF OF FOOTBALL AS THE TEAM’S STARTER and THEN IS ON THE TRADING BLOCK? AND YOU ALL WANT TO GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS FOR THIS GUY. HE WILL NOT START AND WILL NOT BE A QUALITY QUARTERBACK FOR ANYONE.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
He got a concussion, he didn’t get benched.
That 30 year-old QB was one of the best players in football when he went to prison, and now that he’s had a full year to shake the rust off, he’s playing like it.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
He got benched this week. Reid said the starting quarterback was still Kolb’s on Monday and that he would start on Sunday and then he changed his mind on Tuesday after reviewing the films. SO HE GOT BENCHED
champion64 - September 22, 2010
was it the film or was it the fact that maybe Kolb hasn’t fully recovered from his concussion? Do you know for a FACT it was because he watched film? Concussions are a very unpredictable injury and a guy could be okay after a week or miss half the season.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Kolb was supposedly healthy to play last Sunday.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
he is still listed on the injury report as NTN pointed out above. Maybe he was supposedly considered healthy enough, but concussions are a very unpredictable injury and its definitely not unheard of for a guy to be declared ‘healthy’ but then have to sit.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I thought he hadn’t passed the required tests?
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I think he recently passed them. Supposedly, he was still having trouble with callign the plays and the snap count, but they expect him to be at practice friday. that means, he is probably questionable at best for the game
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I meant before the game last sunday.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
oh. I thought he was talking about this upcoming game. my bad. He likely won’t play then either, even if this move hadn’t happened.
Maybe they say this move isn’t about the concussion, but maybe thats just a way to downplay the concussion. Less than a day after the announcement, the eagles announced they HOPE Kolb would be back by friday…
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Jay Glazer reported that Kolb passed the tests, but the Eagles still decided to sit him.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
You’re playing for the wrong team here…
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of that.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
you said he got benched after one half. that was not the case. he got a concussion after one half, and his backup played amazingly.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
In Kolb’s limited time as a QB he is 84/140 for 909 Yards and 6.5 yds/attempt. Last year the Browns were 219/443 for 2076 and 4.7 yds/attempt. If Kolb had the Browns attempts he would have passed for 2800+ yards, and given if the Browns had a competent QB last year they would have passed the ball more, so the projections would be higher. At this point Kolb would be a huge sigh of relief. Also Kolb’s carreer completion percentage is 60%, something else the Browns sorely need.
OSUMoneyball - September 22, 2010
This.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Imagine if Vick actually gave a damn and Atlanta and hadn’t gone to prison? I think he would have been the best player in football. Speed to burn, cannon arm, guts, but apparently lazy.
It must suck to have talent, after seeing so many people waste it.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Maybe he is finally realizing what he truly lost in Atlanta and wants to get that back.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I used to have access to Falcons’ practices and knew people that were in the organization when Vick was there. I don’t know if I would call it lazy, maybe more disinterested.
But believe me when I say that Vick may have more pure physical talent than any other player I have ever seen. Look at the spin move he did on Sunday to avoid a sack. There isn’t another player on earth that could have done that.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
No doubt. That spin was crazy. I don’t know if he saw the guy coming and planned it, or if he just felt him touch him and just instinctively spun around.
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
I just called him lazy because of his comments earlier this year about his effort.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Basing your opinion on one half is dumb.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
This again.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
Not on the internet it’s not. In some places it’s standard operating procedure.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
…you mean the same ‘public’ who booed santa claus? Thanks, I’ll take my chances on Kolb.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
No a man (Reid) who has had good quarterbacks and chose Vick over Kolb. Kolb was not going to move this team. The plans are NOT to work Kolb back in.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
where is the evidence that this was reid benching Kolb and that this wasn’t just Kolb still suffering from a concussion? you have not at all pointed this out.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I provided a link below. ALL I am saying is that I leave near Philly and the organizaation and the fans all were skeptical of Kolb no matter what they said. The Eagles think they can win with Vick and I do too, but they are not sure with Kolb.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Look what I wrote below in response to it. I don’t feel like writing again how this article doesn’t make the point.
maybe the fans were skeptical, but these are philly fans. all you have to go on that the organization was ‘skeptical’ is mass speculation.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
This move was made because Vick is playing “out of his mind”.
I don’t know why you keep insisting that this is because of Kolb’s concussion.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
I believe it has a lot to do with Vick playing out of his mind. I also think that there could be some setback with the concussion that we don’t know about. My point is more that concussions are unpredictable and to say Kolb isn’t playing because he sucks is not only statistically wrong, but speculation.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
No this is 100% incorrect.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
100% incorrect? so vick isn’t playing out of his mind? Concussions are a predictable injury? Kolb really has been terrible and gotten a legitimate shot to prove it and this isn’t speculation?
bross09 - September 23, 2010
You’re incorrect that it has something to do with his concussion. At this point the Eagles are playing Vick because they think he’s better.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
I believe that, but we can’t say for certain this has nothing to do with the concussion. according to a report I read and posted here somewhere that was made after the vick announcement, they weren’t gooing to expect kolb back to practice until friday. Granted, my thoughts on it being concussion based I admit are partially speculation based on the proximity of the announcements.
However, not 100% of what I said is incorrect, in fact my first point I agree with B19K. I think that its because of vick’s play, but I speculate the concussion has something to do with it. I never said it DOES have something to do with it but it could.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
True, but we also can’t say for certain that it’s not because Kolb and Andy Reid were having an affair and Kolb broke up with him. In other words, there is no evidence to support either theory, though we can’t technically rule it out.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 23, 2010
I mean…the evidence that Kolb was supposedly going to be held out of practice this week and not expected to be back until tomorrow at the earliest. enough to say there is a possibility but not enough to say for certain. certainly more than pulling wild speculation out of thin air.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
Again, totally incorrect.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
I don’t have the link up anymore, but it was an article from tuesday or wednesday that stated
bross09 - September 23, 2010
Please . . . just give it up already.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
Shorter bross quoted at linky.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 23, 2010
This made me laugh.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
hahaha. that made my day, being compared to Jerry Horowitz.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
You keep repeating this asinine idea that Kolb was “benched” because he hasn’t recovered from his concussion. Even though his HC says differently (below), and an independent doctor says different.
From the freakin’ head coach:
Quit assuming things. It is tiresome.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
From an article I read written after the Vick annoouncement:
bross09 - September 23, 2010
I honestly don’t even know what your point is anymore.
In short, I am now just like you.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
except your braylon avatar has a beard.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
Well, I am glad that you are pleased that you are impossible to have a discussion with.
Bernie19Kosar - September 24, 2010
I am pleased that your braylon has a beard…hehehe…
bross09 - September 24, 2010
Yup, you’ve been brossed.
Ryan Kelsey - September 23, 2010
Nice avatar.
emily522 - September 24, 2010
I think you’re right. His “benching,” if you will, has less to do with his play, and everything to do with Vick’s play. At least, I think that’s what you’re saying.
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
Vick is playing out of his mind.
It doesn’t mean Kolb sucks, it doesn’t mean Kolb still has a concussion, sometimes it means that a player is playing so freaking well that it is stupid to pull him out.
Ask Kurt Warner.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Is that the same man who picked Kolb over McNabb?
JustBob - September 22, 2010
Also it’s possible they have two good QBs and see a chance to get some value out of trading Kolb. The exact opposite of the BQ/DA debate. Probably a bit of hyperbole, but Brees/Rivers anyone? Just because Kolb lost his job, does not mean he sucks, because well Vick is super talented, and maybe he is showing the Eagles that he can compete close to the level he was at before going to jail.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Recent examples of QB’s who have “lost their jobs”
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Matt Schaub
Donovan McNabb
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
Exactly. The only one I don’t want on that list is Favre and that’s because i’m petty, but since i’m not in the FO I can be that way.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Drew Brees was unfairly treated. Schottenheimer was right about him, and San Diego blew that.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a very good QB who lost his job. Maybe Philly is blowing the Kolb situation.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
They could be, but from what I have seen , I dont think so
champion64 - September 22, 2010
is that because you live near philly?
Dawg Nuts - September 23, 2010
I agree…though I don’t know what this has to do with my comment you replied to.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Champ said the public wanted vick and reid made the right decision. I took your reply to him to mean that the Philly public’s opinion doesn’t mean much if they boo Santa and I was agreeing with that and adding that it was also possible that both QBs were talented which could be another reason behind Reid’s decision.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
oh. gotcha. that makes sense and I agree with you.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Yes, they’re spoiled. Yes, they’re selfish. But wouldn’t you be frustrated if you made it to the NFC Championships 5 times and lost all but 1 of them?
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
the browns have had similar failures, but we don’t boo santa claus.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
No, we threw bottles at him.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
that asshole deserved it.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
When I think about that incident it makes me want to chuck a bottle at a ref too.
North Coast Flea - September 23, 2010
Exactly.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
Yeah because the Philly fans are always so reasonable.!!
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
I just want to get this straight..
- Because he played 1 half of “bad” football he’s a horrible QB
- Because Philly fans don’t want him starting he’s a horrible QB
This is what you’re saying isn’t it?
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
Is there an echo in here?
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
So Vick throws for 284 yds (62%) with 2 TD’s vs a team that over its last 50 games has allowed 254 ypg (69%) with a 96-31 ratio. In those 50 games they have given up 16 300 yd passing games or 1 every 3 or so. Detroit has the #32 defense in yardage & scoring over the last 3 years.
Everyone is getting giddy over a QB playing in a controlled environment on a fast surface vs a defense with only 1 drafted Lions player in the back 7 that started both games this year (Delmas)?
This doesnt feel right…I think Vick may get shipped off especialy since he’s not under contract for 2011…..
sleepy042 - September 22, 2010
why would you name him starter and then ship him off?
champion64 - September 22, 2010
why not? if he plays well & isnt under contract you can throw a restricted tender on him (if it exists in 2011) then send him off for a pair of 2nds. if he tanks then you put kolb back in & no one can question you later cuz you already tried the fan favorite. remember they wanted to trade Vick not McNabb prior to the season but based on the 2009 film no one wanted him.
sleepy042 - September 22, 2010
You glossed over what Vick did against Green Bay.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
No not really. Matthews said they were wholly unprepared for Vick & his skill set. Most defenses dont prep for the backup QB which is why they do so well when the step in during games. Then when they have to play the next week after a defense has a week of breaking him down…..toasted.
sleepy042 - September 22, 2010
BENCHED!!!
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13992148/reids-move-to-vick-in-best-interest-of-all-including-kolb/rss
By sitting Kevin Kolb, Andy Reid gives his quarterback of the future more time to grow. (US Presswire)
The startling decision to sit down Kolb one day after Reid named him his starter guarantees that the target critics were readying for Kolb’s jersey goes on the chest of Reid instead — with the entire city of Philadelphia waiting to pounce. If the move backfires and the Eagles flounder, it is Andy Reid — not Kolb — who takes the heat … and tell me that’s not how Reid wants it.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
1) this is an opinion piece which speculates why this happened but does not give definitive evidence why Kolb was benched
2) It never says Kolb was ‘benched’ it just says Vick is named the starter. this makes me inclined to believe it has less to do with Kolb’s play than it does with Kolbs injury and Vick’s play.
Also:
this if from the articled you posted. next time you should read articles more carefully because He is never ‘benched’ in the article and in fact, the piece never says its Kolbs performance and says quite the opposite. you are trying to argue that ‘kolb sucks and here’s why’ but this article says thaat the eagles DON’T think he sucks.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Just admit you are wrong. Kolb was the starter, he was named the starter on Monday this week and then Tuesday they reversed themselves based on his play and Vick’s play. He was benched, with no plans to start him in the immediate future. He was benched.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
I live here I see it everyday. He is NOT a quality starter. I would rather have Delhomme
champion64 - September 22, 2010
how about you do that. I was willing to listen to your side and I was willing to accept that maybe they actually had lost faith in Kolb, however this proves NOTHING. in fact, this helps to prove my point that they have confidence in him, but maybe he is just a bit woozy.
Vick was named the starter for sunday. This guy speculates that they are keeping vick in for the immediate future. do you understand the definition of an Opinion Piece? that is what this is. This guy never says he was benched, but that vick was named the starter. He doesn’t at ALL point to Kolb’s performance like you are doing.
there is no evidence in here that the eagles WILL have vick start for the immediate future (I am talking past this upcoming week) and there is no evidence the ‘benching’ was performance based. in fact, the quote you seemed to have missed twice points out how they still believe he is the franchise guy.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
So you are right. They are not starting him because he really is the best quarterback on the team. He is not starting because they have faith in him to lead them. Sure that what it is. WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO SAY , KOLB BLOWS AND WE THINK VICK IS OUR ONLY CHANCE??
Be a man an understand you are wrong. He is being benched because they feel they cannot win with KOLB. If they thought they could win with Kolb would they bench him??? answer that?
champion64 - September 22, 2010
why would I admit to being wrong when I have no evidence I am wrong. I will also on this note admit to being wrong that bigfoot doesn’t exist or that the world will end in 2012. I have no evidence that I am wrong for those either…You have not given any evidence that they have lost faith except that they wouldn’t say they have lost faith and that because they said they still have confidence, we are supposed to assume that they don’t have confidence. this is ridiculous.
There is no evidence he was ‘benched’. Most of the evidence seems to point to maybe his concussion is acting up. has that occurred to you? Has it occurred to you that maybe Kolb started to have headaches and was dizzy and thats why he was ‘benched’? or are you so set in the fact that he sucks that you have ignored all other possible scenarios?
bross09 - September 22, 2010
This is the stupidest argument I have ever seen. You guys are arguing about the definition of “benched” and you haven’t even figured that out.
Champion, you said Kolb was benched after a half, and that’s stupid. He had a concussion.
Bross, you are arguing that Kolb was at no point ever benched, and that’s stupid. He is no longer starting. He will be sitting on the bench. He’s benched. There are a million dumb things that Champion is saying. Why are you picking this stupid point to argue?
Champion, I don’t care where you live. You have seen Kolb start four games, max, and most of us have seen those games too. You have no idea if he’s any good.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
Thank you. I’m glad that you bothered to reply to all that ridiculousness because I didn’t want to.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
Is this too big to be a signature?
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Also, though I gave you a rec, I’ve seen plenty stupider * arguments around these parts.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
I think we should start a stupid argument about what argument was stupidest.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
no we shouldn’t, now you’re just being stupid.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
Don’t you normally start an argument about stupid statements? What’s the difference?
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
Could you really not tell that I was making a joke?
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
I knew it was a joke.
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
You lost the argument. He was benched and is not starting. That is the deal. Stop pretending. If they thought they could win with Kolb why would they name him the starter on Monday and then make him the back up on Tuesday? I think they call that a benching. So what is your ingenius answer to why Kolb is not starting after they named him the starter on Monday? ( He is able to play, no health issue) answer that please.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Maybe Vick is super awesome and Kolb is merely just awesmoe at QB. Wouldn’t we still want the awesome QB who might not be super awesome?
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
or we could just assume your judgment of his play in one half is the final word on the situation.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
I am just telling you here in Philly, they were nervous about going into the season with Kolb, thinking 8-8 would be a success. I think they feel although he maybe a decent quarterback he is not the quarterback to get them there now. It is hard to be a good quarterback in the NFL. His demotion is not a good thing for Kevin Kolb, I think you would agree, especially when he was given the starting job early in the off season
champion64 - September 22, 2010
So the general population of Philly is a good judgment of a QB? My perception of Philly fans, which may be incorrect, is that they are boorish and not all that sophisticated.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
Philly fans are crazy, but not always wrong. Every cities fans think they deserve a better team. New York fans are the same way. Browns fans for years believed Kosar was better than Elway. He wasn’t. Kosar was very good, but he was not as good as Elway. Philly fans have an attitude, it is kind of like Jersey Shore, it is in your face and abrasive. They wants success like every other set of fans, maybe just a little louder than most, ok all.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
some philly fans wanted mcnabb gone after his bad game against Carolina in the playoffs in 2003. Some wanted him gone in 2004 even after he took them to the SB. I think I will take philly fans’ opinions on players with a large grain of salt.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
maybe boorish and sophisticated isn’t how I would put it. maybe tactless, hard to please, and angry. I remember back when Donovan McNabb was awesome and was having trouble pleasing the fans.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Exactly.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
This is what you initially said. This is wrong. And when bross called you on it you moved the goalpost and declared victory.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
His stats this year are good? show me
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Serious question: Are you retarded?
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
No, but if you think Kolb is sitting on the bench because he is a very good quarterback you might want to check your IQ
champion64 - September 22, 2010
I haven’t said what I think of Kolb. Kevin Kolb is only tangentially related to the point being discussed. Do try and keep up.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
because its really fair to judge after 1/2 a game and of that half, over 1/4 of which he was playing with a concussion.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
yep. I am to lazy to whip out fallacies on him so thank you.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Keep the fallacies in your pants, this is a family environment.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
yeah…we don’t want another chuckie cheese incident.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
So I lost the argument because you say so?
I can think of a couple reasons
1) Michael Vick is Ridiculous
2) Concussions have flareups
Actually, this was put out AFTER the move was announced. so at the time, there was no timetable for when Kolb WOULD return. now it is friday and that would still likely make him questionable for the game (since he would only have friday to practice)
“I think a lot of the teammates went over to [trainer Rick Buckholder] then and said, ‘Yeah, no matter what he’s telling you I think something’s wrong,’ " Kolb said.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
So why did they not say he is still having an issue so Vick will start this week? Read the article he is being replaced because he was out played. You are wrong.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
fine. I am wrong. if you want that to be so it is.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Don’t use the subject line or all caps here.
“Shouting” doesn’t get your opinion heard, it gets it ignored.
Bumblyjack - September 22, 2010
Here is a question? If you are one of the Browns QBs right now… either Delhomme or Wallace, how do you feel about your organization’s confidence in you as a player? Pretty crappy I’d say. I’m sure the coaches didn’t want this to come out for that reason. Wonder how this got leaked?
Brownsyup - September 22, 2010
if you are colt mccoy how do you feel?
sleepy042 - September 22, 2010
Just lucky to be here? 8-)
Brownsyup - September 22, 2010
touche
sleepy042 - September 22, 2010
I’d be feeling pretty damn good. Also I love how when I start to type in Colt McCoy the first thing the bing finisher puts up is Colt McCoy’s girlfriend.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Voted Best post!
champion64 - September 22, 2010
I love the sun.
I love that ass.
SpecialBrownie - September 22, 2010
Well, I wouldn’t want to break the set …
JustBob - September 23, 2010
Players know this is a business. Especially veterans like Wallace and Delhomme. McCoy is the only one I’d worry about, but he’ll either learn that it’s part of the game and grow a man-sized callous over the portion of his ego that’s been wounded, or he’ll be wrecked completely by it, and be out of the league in short order.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
Exactly.
1.The vets know it’s a business and would not be offended by the team trying to go out and get a young QB.
2. Colt is going to have to figure out that it’s a tough league or he ain’t going to make it. If he can’t handle rumors about a trade for a highly-touted QB, he’s not going to last long in the league anyway.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
I honestly don’t think that either of those two felt the organization had any confidence in them anyway. Delhomme knows his role here and Seneca knows we have McCoy on the bench.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I’ll give them Quinn and Daboll for Kolb.
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
I’m also starting to feel that brining HEckert here may have been less than helpful.
too many cooks in the FO?
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
Overreaction. We are 2 games into a new season. What does everyone really expect at this point?
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
“let’s bring in the qb from seattle” “no, the one from Philly”
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
I don’t know how much you read what Heckert says, but I do so maybe you should defer to me at this point. Heckert has openly stated he would have loved to acquire kolb, but that he wasn’t available. Guess what, when a guy you want isn’t available, you have to acquire someone else. So he went and got Delhomme and Wallace. Now the guy he wants might be available…it’s not like he can’t make up his mind. The FACTS of this case have changed and he might have a chance to get his guy.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
3-0.
Bernie19Kosar - September 22, 2010
?
discoinferno083 - September 22, 2010
Nicely done.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
green
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
OUR OFFENS SHLD LOOK LiKE THE 07 CHEATRIOTS AND DEFNSE 85 BEARS
WERE TIRED Of WWAITNG
FIRE DABOLL AND TH BALL BOY NOW
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
Firing Daboll will happen, if the offense stays like this. I think maybe 3 or 4 more games tops.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
That you didn’t recognize the sarcasm here is hilarious.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
Shoulda acquired troy smith.
jaws. - September 23, 2010
That was physically painful to read. Well done!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - September 23, 2010
we should expect to beat the two teams that we played that are not as good as us. I think you will agree it is mainly the offensive game plan in the second half and the suspect play of both quarterbacks so far. (both interceptions lost the games for us) This team is not that bad
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Right, so how is that the General Manager’s fault? (which is the point I was quibbling with)
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
The three quarterbacks we entered the season with, I would hope you would admit at least LOOK like a mistake, and he put them there.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
One of them hasn’t played, one is exactly what we thought he was, and one has had one healthy half of football. I’m willing to reserve judgement for a week or two.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
Ok , I honestly hope Wallace can move the team. This week, could be brutal. Although I can see Wallace’s movement, giving the Ravens more of a problem then Delhomme as a standing target.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
This. Wallace is Wallace…what did he expect?
bross09 - September 22, 2010
But better or worse than Quinn and Anderson? I argue better. They can’t fix everything in one offseason.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
I hated both Quinn and Anderson. Anderson choked against Cincinnati in 2007 and really was never the same
champion64 - September 22, 2010
But they weren’t a mistake unless you believe we could have gotten someone better, because both are more than likely better than what we had.
Staying with Quinn and DA would have been a mistake, getting JD and SW is merely an inadequate solution born of limited options.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
This I agree to a point, I just wish they would have made a harder effort for Mcnabb or Campbell. With Campbell it could be the same story. I think McNabb would have been a very good choice. I agree there were not many options.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
I think they weren’t wanting to go the McNabb route for whatever reasons, age likelihood he wouldn’t resign and probably saw Campbell as damaged goods.
You can’t forget, until now Kolb hasn’t endured any damage to his ego or person. He’s almost a rookie with experience. Which is pretty close to Cassell but i don’t think we would have to spend Cassell money to get Kolb.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I think our quarterback will be selected in next years draft.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
pretty much sums up the entire browns franchise since 99.
johnnyphoenix - September 23, 2010
Can’t fault the GM on the QB situation. It was obvious that the Browns were not going into this season with Quinn or Anderson. So here we sit, it is not like we acquired Peyton Manning. Having Jake and Wallace as our QB’s the road was not going to be smooth.
I still think the Browns starting QB is in next Aprils draft.
Grockcubs - September 22, 2010
Would you expect to beat SD? And yes I know you can’t play so and so beat so and so, but KC beating SD does show that they are at least capable of beating a quality team. As it’s been said, it’s the NFL, you can’t count a victory until the game is over. Just ask Rudd.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Don’t you think the Browns should have beaten KC on the field? I think they did. The KC defense was the star of the game, shutting the Browns down in the second half, but so far this season, it seems as though the second half offense for the Browns has not been that hard to shut down. I believe the Browns badly beat themselves the first two weeks
champion64 - September 22, 2010
No I dont think Cleveland would be expected to beat San Diego
champion64 - September 22, 2010
actually, I expected us to blow one of those games, more likely KC (which is why I was less upset after that loss than TB)
bross09 - September 22, 2010
i wonder what tim couch is doing right now….
sleepy042 - September 22, 2010
“Would you like to Super Size your extra value meal?”
Bumblyjack - September 22, 2010
He’s doing radio or tv or something in Lexington, KY.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Plus his wife isn’t too bad. Again just like with McCoy, I love how the first thing to pop up for Couch’s name is Tim Couch’s wife.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I see a nipple.
golanbatrac - September 22, 2010
I am sure if he was a janitor she would be with him. And I see nipple too. Damn good picture of her
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Oh snap, I missed that. Ladies never wear black if you’re expecting flash photography unless you want to flash.
Ha!! I’ll be here all year, or alteast until i have a concussion and get replaced by a dog killer. I got a million of ’em.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
The second thing to pop up for Couch’s name?
JustBob - September 23, 2010
Ok can you read this. Benched
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-eaglesqbs
The move also goes against a standard belief that starters shouldn’t lose their job because of injury.
But Reid is treating this as a unique circumstance.
"Kevin lost his job because of Michael Vick’s accelerated play," Reid said
After insisting all along that Kevin Kolb(notes) would start when he returned from a concussion, and one day after saying Vick was going back to the bench despite two dazzling performances, Reid changed his mind. Why?
Vick gives the Eagles (1-1) a better chance to win in a division that lacks a dominant team. A three-time Pro Bowl pick with Atlanta, Vick is playing at an even higher level now, even though he missed two years and saw limited action last season.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
OK there more info
Well, this is a stunner. On Tuesday afternoon, the news broke that the Philadelphia Eagles have named Michael Vick(notes) their starting quarterback. According to initial reports, the move has nothing to do with former starter Kevin Kolb’s(notes) concussion; this is entirely a football move, seemingly based on Vick’s performance in Philly’s 35-32 win over the Detroit Lions last Sunday, and his ability to move the team when he spelled Kolb in the season-opening loss against Green Bay. In six quarters, Vick has completed 37 passes in 58 attempts for 459 yards, three touchdowns, and no interceptions. He has also run for 140 yards and six first downs on just 18 carries.
The Eagles have had a long-standing belief in Kolb, who they selected in the second round of the 2007 NFL draft. They traded Donovan McNabb(notes) to the Washington Redskins in April, and put their full faith behind Kolb instead. But Vick, whom the Eagles picked up after he finished his prison sentence, was signed in August of 2009 as a backup/option quarterback, has made head coach Andy Reid’s decision to keep Kolb in place far more difficult.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Dawg Nuts - September 23, 2010
Shall this become a DBN staple?
You own like 4 of them already…
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
yeah, I have a feeling I’ll be breaking this out quite often in the future…
what are the other staples?
Dawg Nuts - September 24, 2010
I would much rather give a second for kolb than take a chance in the first on a rookie this year. For as long as Vick is starting, hopefully the whole season, i’m an eagles fan.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 22, 2010
If anyone didn’t know or forgot, champion lives near Philly. Like really close. He’s basically a Philly fan he lives so close.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I, for the record, HATE and will always HATE the Eagles
champion64 - September 22, 2010
Best game I ever saw in person was in 1988 in Municipal Stadium in Cleveland when the Browns beat the Eagles 19-3 and sacked Randall Cunningham 7 or 8 times. Buddy Ryan said that team (The Browns) kicked our a$$ today and it hurt!
champion64 - September 22, 2010
I was just giving you the business. Anyone that worked up about this has to be a Browns fan. Though if we do end up acquiring Kolb I hope you’re wrong.
Villeslgr - September 22, 2010
I hope I am wrong too. I hope something positive happens.
champion64 - September 22, 2010
I’m not sold on someone who is only 1-1 in the NFL. But if Heckert thinks is a stud take the shot.
Brownie's Year - September 22, 2010
Not sure if this was intended to be ironic, but I find this post hilarious.
Roger Dorn - September 22, 2010
I saw on Rotoworld that James Davis expects to get some work this week. That’d be awesome.
emily522 - September 22, 2010
Sorry that was OT. But calling for Kolb doesn’t surprise me at all.
emily522 - September 22, 2010
Apparently Harrison is a little dinged up.
notthatnoise - September 22, 2010
Soo I guess I’m late to this. I tend to agree with most people here, though. When given the chance Kolb has played great. He’s sat behind one of the best QBs in the league for what, 4 years? So what if he had a “bad” half of football in the first regular season game. Oh and if by bad you mean 5 of 10 with no TDs or INTs, then you haven’t watched much Browns football.
I’d give up a second for him in a heartbeat, not so sure about switching firsts, though. Just imagine getting Kolb and then A.J. Green or Julio Jones. We’d have some killer offensive weapons, and I think MoMass would be a great 2nd receiver (like before Braylon was shipped).
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
and it wasn’t THAT bad of a half. it wasn’t particularly good, but its not like he threw 3 INTs, and he was injured for the last 8:27 of the half.
I totally agree. Kolb plus Green is monster. I like Jones’ skills, but I am afraid he is BE all over again. AJ green also has almost as good of skills (6’4 and a 4.4 40) but has better hands…MoMass could function sort of like Jurevicious (but better) and AJ green could be Braylon in 2007 when he was actually focused.
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Stop comparing receivers to 07 Braylon. I don’t care what year of Braylon you’re talking about, I don’t want to hear about any possible receiver as compared to Braylon.
Julio’s dropped passes do worry me, but if he could shore that up this year, he’s definitely the second receiver taken. I don’t think we get Green unless we’re drafting top 5 or higher (which right now looks like it’s possible). Green is the type of talent you take because he is best available, not just because you need a receiver. He’ll be gone shortly after the draft begins.
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
I agree. you have to be top 5 to get green. I really don’t like Julio because of his hands. Personally, my favorite guy after that is Johnothan Baldwin. he is a Brandon Marshall type (tall, big, good hands but not that fast)
bross09 - September 22, 2010
Yea I saw him on walterfootball’s mock. I don’t know the name, yet. Maybe I’ll look into him.
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
I saw him a bit at pitt. he has monster hands and is 6’5’’ and about 230 pounds. He is not quick and he may not be able to get separation in the NFL. However, he’ll be about a half a foot taller than most defenders and he is ridiculous on jump ball and RZ plays. He could be better than marshall IMO
bross09 - September 22, 2010
I’d really like a burner. A DeSean Jackson type if you will.
StuckInPa - September 22, 2010
yeah, but do you take that guy at the risk that he has edwards hands? that is why I want to stay away from Julio jones until I see some improvement. Floyd is nice, but I don’t know if he will be able to stay healthy. AJ green is the whole package. Burners are nice, but a guy like Baldwin would make the defense gameplan for him and prepare for him as much as a burner. he could be the type of guy who makes QBs looke better just for the fact that he has tremendous height and can catch just about anything.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
I wouldnt give the eagles shit for kevin kolb. I doubt he would be able to help us much this year (acclimating to the playbook and such) This team needs as many young and talented players as it can get. I’m not giving up any draft picks until i know what I have in colt mccoy.
jaws. - September 23, 2010
How the hell is Kolb not young and talented?
And the McCoy train kinda ran outta gas. And also, getting Kolb now>waiting for McCoy.
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
The team will still be shitty if we have kolb now. Even peyton manning or Tom Brady (or the new michael vick) could only take this team so far. You’ve got to have some other players. Right now we have nothing in terms of receivers, a slow white running back, two heaps of garbage on the right side of our offensive line, and a defensive front seven that is among the slowest in the league. And we have to compete in what might be the toughest division in the NFL right now.
The fact of the matter is we are going to have to wait. The Front office knows it thats why they didnt go out and spend money on guys like Karlos Dansby or anyone else. RIght now we as browns fans should be hoping that the browns can find a way to turn shaun rogers into draft picks before the deadline, not throw our draft picks away trying to contend when we clearly just lack talent.
jaws. - September 23, 2010
ya know, if that slow white running back turns out to be the next john riggins (or even 60% of what john riggins was) I wouldnt mind. don’t knock the slower white guys. they’ll hit you in the mouth.
bross09 - September 23, 2010
Okay, the d – line is far from as bad as you like to admit and the right side will get better when Lauvao returns.
But the thing you don’t get is that you need a QB to build around. A great QB>than needed great players in other places. Ex. McNabb almost never had big name receivers, and T.O. probably hurt him rather than helped him,
A franchise QB is the most important on a team.
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
Who cares how much he helps us this year? The Browns need to get a QB of the future, and we’re certainly not going to avoid doing that while we wait to see if McCoy can develop. He’s a project, which is why we took him in the 3rd round, and he’s not going to stand in the way of us aquiring a possible starting QB for the next decade.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
I’m not really high on McCoy anyways. I mean he’s there and it was probably the lines fault in the pre season but, yeah I’m not into it anymore.
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
No, No, and NO! Kolb is not a starting QB, he’s a good back up QB, that is all. If anything, Philly should give us draft picks to take this guy and his contract off of there hands. We need all the draft picks that we can get and stop trading for maybes and flyers. Case in point, Loadholt. That would have ben a great piece of beef to add to our offensive line, but instead we passed over for a 3rd or 4th round WR, and wasted the 2nd.
J. W. - September 23, 2010
Loadholt is nothing special, don’t make him out to be anything special either.
And how do you know Kolb isn’t starting material? Minus this year’s opener (where he only played almost one half?) he’s had 300+ yard games right? Also, as a casual fan, you don’t know how to evaluate him like our FO would. Especially Heckert who knows Kolb personally and Holmgren (his work doesn’t even need to be brought up)
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
We haven’t seen Kolb play enough to know if he’s a good starting QB, so don’t come here and definatively say that he’s not because there is no way for you to know that.
Buckeye Brad - September 23, 2010
I think its funny so many people on here are saying that. How can anyone say that? I bet most scouts and coaches don’t even know this yet, because he hasn’t played enough. I’m sure they have an idea of what he can do (or why else would you trade McNabb), but to say he isn’t good this early is crazy.
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
I feel like if we can get a high draft pick, we can get a QB with more upside. Thats not to say Kolb is not or cannot be good, just that I think theres some QBs with higher ceilings that will most likely be available to us in April. Although I will say it’d be interesting to see what we’d do with the first round pick if trading a 2nd round pick to Philly would alleviate our demands at QB (at least for another season, hopefully longer). What would we take in that instance? A WR?
troy145 - September 23, 2010
I am a huge Mallett fan, but he would cost us a 1st rounder.
If, and that remains a huge if, we could get Kolb, I am willing to take the gamble on the supposed lower ceiling at the lower price tag.
Kolb and AJ Green > Ryan Mallet and Austin Pettis
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
My thoughts exactly.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
yup.
Dawg Nuts - September 24, 2010
If he was a good starter and the face of the Eagles do you think they would have benched him? This is a young Eagle team. If Kolb is to grow and be the quarterback of the future for the Eagles, why bench him now?
champion64 - September 23, 2010
I like that you keep asking the same question, and keep getting the same answer, but refuse to acknowledge it.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
No I am just saying everyone seems to like Kolb, but I think you have to admit something isn’t right to only give him one half of the first game to move him to the back up. Vick is not there to groom Kolb , he has replaced Kolb, to win now. This is not to groom Kolb to be an Eagle quarterback, it is to win with Vick only move
champion64 - September 23, 2010
Nobody here said it was to groom Kolb.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
I am just wondering the interest in Kolb. I really think something must be up besides the great play from Vick. I would wait on Kolb before I would make an offer on him. Does anyone know if any other team has expressed interest in Kolb. Has it been confirmed the Browns did express an interest this week in Kolb?
champion64 - September 23, 2010
The interest in Kolb is that he could be a franchise QB, and that we could get him for a 2nd round pick.
I’ve actually seen news lately that it isn’t true that Cleveland called Philly, and other teams interested might be Minnesota, Oakland, and a couple others.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
Minnesota makes alot of sense to me. I don’t see anyway they bring Favre back next year even if he wants to play. Also as much as they’ve screwed TJ over and as much as he hasn’t produced I’d bet they’d give up alot if they thought Kolb could be a competent starter.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Favre should have stayed in retirement this year. He is playing awful!
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
This.
emily522 - September 24, 2010
Yea it wouldn’t really make sense that we would be the only team interested. There’s a lot of teams in need a franchise QB. I’m not sure I’d want to go into a bidding war for him. Most I think we should do is a 2nd and maybe a late rounder or a conditional future pick. We need to be able to build the offense around him if we actually do make the trade.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
I would think Buffalo would be on Andy’s caller ID as well. Agree, 2nd rounder is as high as I go for him.
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
you aren’t looking at the cause here. Kolb didn’t get pulled out of that first game because he sucked, he got pulled out because of a concussion. Then, his backup came in and played amazingly, and when QBs play that well you don’t sit them. Ask Kurt Warner and Tom Brady. Even Andy Reid said it was about how well Vick was playing, not about Kolb.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Yeah well you dont give up on a Starting quarterback , quarterback face of the future on the team because he got hurt. I just think there is more to it.
champion64 - September 23, 2010
If you could clean this up and make it legible, I’d reply to it but I can’t understand it.
SpecialBrownie - September 23, 2010
Too bad you’re opinion doesn’t mean more to Andy Reid.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
Ha…REC
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
The Rams gave up on Trent Green when Kurt Warner played great. The Patriots gave up on Drew Bledsoe for Tom Brady. sometimes the guy behind you turns out to be a hall of famer, even if you’re still pretty good.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Except 1997 when Marty Schottenheimer benched a red-hot Rich Gannon for Elvis Grbac. Or when Wade Phillips benched a red-hot Doug Flutie for Rob Johnson. But every other time, you don’t do it!
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
Yes. I am not the only one who remembers that. Dumbest. Move. Ever. Marty was a great regular season coach but a stupid, stupid postseason coach. The Chiefs had a one seed that year and lost in the first round, which was Grbac’s first game back after Gannon had lit up the league for the second half of the season. Marty’s answer was that you don’t lose your job due to injury. Uh, yes, Marty, you do. Belichek showed some brains on that one.
TheDriveStillHurts - September 23, 2010
those were not good decisions.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
Its really simple actually
1) Kolb gets a concussion in the opening game
2) Vick comes in and is tearing it up
3) #1+#2=Vick starts
It has nothing to do with saying Kolb is bad or sucks or whatever. When you have a former star playing like Vick is right now, let him be and roll with it.
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
Because a former STAR just went 37/58 (63.8%) for 459yds, 3TD’s, and a passer rating of 105
Why would anyone NOT play a guy with stats like that. Oh and I almost forgot, he has rushed for 19x for 140yds in those two games. That is a QB with more yards than any of our RB’s. Again, why in the world would you not start the guy. I think Kolb is/will be the future of Philly, but Vick is just too hot to not keep playing him right now.
Also he is on my fantasy team, so I need him to start and play well.
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
hmmmm. . .
J.W. = Jaws?
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Personally I’d rather wait and take a QB with our first pick in the draft.
troy145 - September 23, 2010
I think that’s a really tough decision to make, and I am glad I do not have to make it.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
I agree, if a quality one is there
champion64 - September 23, 2010
There’s probably going to be about 5 of them.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
I agree if we couldn’t get Kolb for a 2nd rounder. There should be a good crop of QB’s in this draft…Mallet, Luck (if he announces for the NFL), Locker. If our offense doesn’t pick up the pace we should easily be able to get one of these guys in the first 3 spots of the draft.
Kimble_79 - September 23, 2010
I just read through this whole thread, and I can’t believe only one other person (sleepy) has mentioned how ridiculous this Michael Vick thing is. Last week everybody said, “Pick Michael Vick up for your fantasy teams, because the Lions are terrible!” Then, after he shreds the Lions, everybody forgets why they were promoting him in the first place. It’s not because he’s good, it’s because the Lions make anybody look good.
The dude has had two good games. He faced a Packers team that had a huge lead and was prepared for Kevin Kolb, and the Eagles called 34(!) second-half pass plays, and he ran all over the place. Then he played decently against the worst defense in the league, got himself sacked five times and fumbled twice and didn’t find much running room once they were ready for him.
Now, Vick will look pretty good against the Jaguars, because they’re awful, and then he’ll have to face a whole bunch of real defenses. At some point this season he’s going to put up a couple consecutive games of 140 passing yards and 55 rushing yards and everybody is going to go “Oh yeah, that’s Mike Vick.” And then the controversy is really going to start up.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
He’s not a very accurate passer.
Roger Dorn - September 23, 2010
Vick looks much, much better in terms of his footwork and keeping his vision downfield.
As Dorn mentions he was never really an accurate passer, but from what I have seen in a very limited time, he is making much better throws. I expect it to continue. Philly was the perfect place for Vick to land.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
Mike Vick is that guy that carried the falcons on his back for a few years.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
And now he doesn’t have to do that with the Eagles. If Vick keeps up his play, the Eagles will be scary come the playoffs.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
Not to mention that Vick was never surrounded by the weapons he has now.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
This, that below, and what’s below it.
If Vick limits his mistakes Philly is very dangerous in my opinion. They have long ball threats, a quality running back a coach that likes to throw the ball to his backs as well as his receivers, Vick doesn’t have to be overly accurate with these guys, he has to get the ball to where they can make a play. If you have to guard Djack deep and watch for a tight end and possibly a RB coming out of the backfield, MV can cause some serious problems for you on defense.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Um… ignore the sentence structure.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
You’re right, and allow me to clarify. I don’t think Michael Vick is a bad player. I think he’s a dynamic playmaker who is more than capable of carrying teams to a bunch of wins. But I think to win a Super Bowl, unless you’re paired with an all-time defense, you’re going to need to be able to throw the ball really well. And I think Vick has proven that, for all the wonderful things he is, he isn’t a particularly great passer.
Now, I don’t know if Kolb can be that guy either. But Reid appeared to think so three weeks ago, and I think the Eagles would be better served finding out if he’s right. With Michael Vick, you grab a Wild Card, maybe you win a weak division, but you’re not doing much more than that.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
I disagree with this assertion.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
As for Kolb, I have long said that the best way to get a good NFL QB is to pluck him off another team’s roster. I compare it to the Indians — they haven’t been very good the last 10 years at drafting talent, but they’re good at identifying it once it’s already on professional rosters (trading for minor leaguers). I think Kolb could be our Schaub, and if Holmgren and Heckert agree, I think it’s absolutely worth a second-round pick to find out.
There isn’t a single quarterback in college football that we could draft in the first round that I would feel as good about as I do Kevin Kolb.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
You don’t think Michael Vick is a very good quarterback, and that he just played well against a bad Lions team and a Packer team that was way ahead and was playing a looser defense. You think Vick will fall back to being an average quarterback, then what does that say about Kolb, who Reid thinks he should not start and he should sit behind Vick going forward? (Not starting a fight, interested in your view)
champion64 - September 23, 2010
Coaches get infatuated with guys too, just like fans. Kelly Holcomb was never better than Tim Couch, but he “won” the QB competition.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
I agree with your infatuation point, but I think comparing Holcomb and Couch to Vick and Kolb is a bit of a stretch. Mainly because both of those guys sucked.
Villeslgr - September 23, 2010
Couch didn’t suck, he was put in a terrible situation. The team didn’t draft a single high round OL the whole time he was here. I, and some others on here, contend that had Couch had even a serviceable OL, he could have been pretty good.
Dawg Nuts - September 24, 2010
I’m with ya. We have no idea how good Couch could have been.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
I can say with confidence though that Couch>DA+BQ. Couch may not have been great, but he was better than both of those guys combined even with that terrible O-Line.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
I think Couch sucked.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
His career stats aren’t too bad, especially if you factor in supporting cast. He has a career QB rating of 75, and it was pretty consistently around that number.
also, he was able to take a team to the playoffs.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
the rating of 75 is somewhat unbelievable given that he had to fight for his life nearly every down to have enough time to get his passes off.
Dawg Nuts - September 24, 2010
exactly. I remember back in the day I used to call him Tim Ouch, taking away the C. He was a better QB than BQ/DA with a much worse supporting cast (at least protection wise, the WRs might have actually been a bit better)
bross09 - September 24, 2010
Until ‘09, DA/Quinn had Winslow. He was better than all of Couch’s receivers combined.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
thats true. I wasn’t thinking about TEs.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
You would suck to if you got hit before you could take one step back trying to get to the pocket WHAT POCKET
dawginhouston - September 24, 2010
I would suck in any scenario.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
You might want to qualify that as any football scenario. Otherwise, this thread could get x-rated in a hurry.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
You wouldn’t even ask for money?
SpecialBrownie - September 24, 2010
Exactly. And so would Couch.
Villeslgr - September 25, 2010
Couch sucked. He might not have sucked as bad as he looked, but he sucked.
Villeslgr - September 25, 2010
he wasn’t very good. However, how good would he have done with a competent O-Line? We did not have a competent QB until we got JT and Steinbach. We had some guys who had been competent QBs in their career (jeff Garcia, Trent Dilfer) but they were not very good behind that line. Jeff garcia in fact had maybe his worst statistical season starting the majority of the games.
bross09 - September 25, 2010
To clarify, I don’t exactly think that Vick isn’t very good. I’ll explain more in reply to my original post.
As for this situation, I think Reid saw Vick torch the Lions and got overly excited, just like a lot of people on this board. I don’t think it says much at all about Kolb.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
So Colt McCoy to start eventually goes out the window?
mooncamping - September 23, 2010
It was barely ever in the window, IMO.
….Oh wait.
troy145 - September 23, 2010
The report out of preason camp were really not good with McCoy. Think he needs time or another Quinn?
champion64 - September 23, 2010
He’s a rookie. If we find our franchise QB before he develops, we can trade him for picks.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
Let me paint a scenario;
We trade for Kevin Kolb, he develops into a pro bowl QB.
Colt McCoy looks amazing in limited time.
We trade Colt McCoy for a second rounder in ’13.
I like it.
Bernie19Kosar - September 23, 2010
exactly. just because you have a guy who could be good in a few years doesn’t mean you pass on a guy who can be good now*.
*unless that guy is old, has an outrageous contract, a scary injury history, etc.
notthatnoise - September 23, 2010
This. Exactly what I was trying to say.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
We invested a first and second round pick in Quinn. He was a serious blow to the franchise. Colt is just a mid-round flyer, so if he doesn’t pan out, it’s not a big deal — I definitely wouldn’t call him another Quinn.
Chemo - September 23, 2010
Two firsts and a second, eh Brad?
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
Ha, don’t get that started again.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
Can Quinn do this?
Yeehaw!
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Does Quinn have this?
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Chicks dig this:
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Check this, Colt McCoy and a speed boat:
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Or this, Colt McCoy and a LIVING stag!:
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Colt McCoy with a fish:
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Colt McCoy brings heaven to earth:
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Colt McCoy, real American:
Yessiree!
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
Texas sized hero:
Nuff said?
mooncamping - September 25, 2010
I had to rec all of those because I didn’t even know it was possible to have that many McCoy pictures. I’m kind of wanting him to start tomorrow.
Villeslgr - September 25, 2010
Didn’t want to break the series. That pic of the Buck kill is awesome.
Are sport fishing boats considered speed boats? I don’t think they use those for skiing and whatnot.
I rec’d all aswell. Made me laugh.
Brownie's Year - September 25, 2010
This was wonderful.
golanbatrac - September 25, 2010
I think someone has a man-crush.
Buckeye Brad - September 25, 2010
I started to laugh so hard I almost cried. And I’m in the library right now. Oops haha.
emily522 - September 25, 2010
You singlehandedly restored my faith in McCoy as our future QB.
SpecialBrownie - September 25, 2010
The “Yeehaw!” part on the first picture cracked me up.
emily522 - September 25, 2010
Anyone else just skip the whole “benched” and “Kolb is bad” debate?
BrownDawg1409 - September 23, 2010
I wish.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
It actually amazes me how much traffic this site has.
StuckInPa - September 23, 2010
It’s a cluster of cluster f*ck.
Brownie's Year - September 24, 2010
Hope we do not make the mistake in trading for him.The man that was tabed as the QB of the future of Phil and the main reason they traded McNabb is now benched with a chance that they will trade him.That just sends up all kinds of bad vibes to me.
IMO pass on this Backup last thing we need is another back to add to the list of backup’s we have here.SAve the picks and see what we can get in the draft.
Brownsfan4ever - September 24, 2010
I feel like I’ve read this argument a few dozen times already.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
please read the rest of the discussion, you will find this topic addressed many times above.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
Colt Mccoy
Why don’t we just kick Colt, in the package and let hem know we don’t think you can do it, so were going to bring in another young unproven quarterback and give him a chance at taking his job before Colt gets a shot. STUPID
dawginhouston - September 24, 2010
If McCoy can’t handle a little competition, then he’ll never be a franchise QB. His job is to work his ass off and improve so that he’s ready when he gets his shot.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
“dawginhouston”
I’m sure there isn’t any bias there…
Dawg Nuts - September 24, 2010
You want to kick Colt in his package? That’s a terrible thing to say!
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
Bahahahahah.
emily522 - September 24, 2010
Ha!
SpecialBrownie - September 24, 2010
Strangely when I first read his comment that’s actually what I thought he meant.
Villeslgr - September 25, 2010
bias
I don’t care about any Texas teams I’m an Ohio fan all the way,Cleveland Browns,Indians,and the Cavs. since I was a little kid about 7 years old 1957 (well not the Cavs then).My point is why bring in another kid who has to learn new teamates and everything else,and give him the ball,I say, If were going to throw in the towel lets see what Colts made of. Ive wached him play quite abit he’s smart, fast, and he dosen’t panic,he always finds a way to get it done,
dawginhouston - September 24, 2010
Please use the reply button when replying to a post. Makes conversations easier to follow.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
no problem, shouldn’t have assumed that. i think the difference is that Kolb has had some success in the NFL, where Colt hasn’t yet. additionally, with Heckert being on board now, I’d certainly trust his opinion on Kolb given his track record and experience with the Eagles. If anyone knows Kolb, its him. Finally, a deal wouldn’t get done without Holmgren’s approval, and if Kolb is good enough to be Holmgren’s QB, its certainly good enough for me.
Dawg Nuts - September 24, 2010
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/24/andy-reid-was-worried-about-kevin-kolb-getting-crucified/
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
ok
sorry I don’t know the rules I just started using the coumputer so I’ll learn as I go.About a frnnchise quarterback, I’ve heard it a million times 80 percent of the time it’s wrong, you never know what you’ve got.I agree he is very young, but, so is Kolb. I’m just sick of watching young quarterbacks brought in and have to try and succeed behind a bad offensive line and get killed, of just not get a fair chance,and we keep doing it year after year.I say Forget Kolb, fix tho oline and give Colt a shot GO BROWNS
dawginhouston - September 24, 2010
No problem.
What you want to do is whenever you want to respond to a specific post, you hit the reply button directly below that post (and not the last post in the thread). So in this instance you should have replied to my post about using the reply button by clicking on the reply button directly under my post. It’s a bit confusing at first, but once you get the hang of it it’s no big deal.
Also, we don’t use the subject line here. It’s a bit of a pain in the ass to use, and makes the blog more difficult to read.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
OK Thanks for that info,I need all the help I can get,but, I hope I get better.The BROWNS are going to kick the gayvins ass GO BROWNS FOREVER (but hurry I’m getting old)
dawginhouston - September 24, 2010
this made me laugh.
notthatnoise - September 24, 2010
Me too.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
This did not.
Chemo - September 24, 2010
Everybody see’s things their own way. whats funny to me I guess isn’t to you SORRY I WON’T WRIGHT IT AGAIN ,
dawginhouston - September 26, 2010
Gotta be one of the best.
Villeslgr - September 26, 2010
Please refrain from using words like “gayvins” as that is not appropriate for this blog. Any comments like that again will be deleted.
Buckeye Brad - September 24, 2010
What if he meant Happyvins?
SpecialBrownie - September 24, 2010
Ha Ha. Rec.
Dawg Nuts - September 25, 2010
I did mean happvins.Fine,I won’t wright it anymore.( I’ll still think it every chance I get) I’m sorry I didn’t mean to insult the ravins
dawginhouston - September 26, 2010
Do you really not get what is wrong with the comment? The problem isn’t you insulting the Ravens, it’s using a derogatory slur which many people don’t like. We try to stay away from those kind of comments on here.
Maybe you need to read the Community Guidelines again.
Buckeye Brad - September 26, 2010
I think we have a good offensive line.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
Yes we do (the right side needs to gel) but, that’s my point let Colt have a chance, he won’t panic,and he will figure out a way to get it done.
YE HAW GO GET EM TEX
dawginhouston - September 24, 2010
I don’t think the O-Line needs that much fixing. we need a RT, but after that we should be set.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
A Right Tackle and some younger depth, I’d say. St. Clair and Womack need to be replaced by a couple 6th or 7th rounders with some upside.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
I agree. though until those 6th or 7th rounders become competent backups, Womack and St. Clair (or at least womack and possibly pashos) would be valuable to have for a year or two. I agree, some depth is needed.
bross09 - September 24, 2010
O-line depth can be tough as many teams in the league don’t even have more than 1 or 2 good offensive linemen. Ideally we would have younger quality depth, but it’s not an easy thing to come across.
Roger Dorn - September 24, 2010
See also: Sowells, Isaac.
golanbatrac - September 24, 2010
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