Not everyone who is a Cleveland Browns fan cares about where LeBron James goes, but I'd reckon that the majority of them do. I usually don't like dedicating entire posts to basketball since this is a football blog, but today is such a huge day in the future of Cleveland sports.
CAVS COVERAGE:
While the Browns' fanbase has remained fairly strong and seems to have a revival each year, the team hasn't been consistently good. The Indians had a great season a couple years ago, but everything a few years before and after that has been gloomy. The Cavaliers have been the shining light during that timespan, thanks to James. It'll be absolutely crushing to lose him, but that seems like a real possibility after this article from Chris Broussard early this morning:
All indications are that LeBron James is leaning toward signing with the Miami Heat on Thursday night, according to several sources with knowledge of the situation.
Barring a late change of heart, sources say James has decided to join fellow All-Stars Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to form a potential NBA powerhouse.
LeBron's decision has to already be made, and while Broussard seems sure of his sources, I'm still nervously awaiting 9 p.m. tonight for LeBron's hour-long special on ESPN, The Decision. I almost hope that LeBron's camp has been leaking false rumors just to make tonight's decision all-the-more dramatic when he proclaims that he is staying with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Fingers crossed!
For more coverage throughout the day on LeBron, make sure you head over to FearTheSword.com, our Cavaliers affiliate.
Over at Mocking the Draft, they wrote about the team needs for the Browns. Several positions are listed, but with the tight ends preview coming up tomorrow, I'll cite that one here:
- Tight end: If Colt McCoy ends up being the team's quarterback following the 2010 season, a good tight end will greatly help his development. Current tight ends Ben Watson, Evan Moore and Robert Royal profile more as backups. Moore has the most potential of the three, but he really only had one good game last season.
I'd give Watson a little bit more credit. With him on the roster and us now having a legitimate veteran tight end, a potential up-and-coming receiving tight end, and a good blocker, I'm not so sure tight end should be listed as a position of need instead of something like safety, where we are still unproven.
There are no off-beat notes today, as LeBron James has told us that we can't promote other topics on a day that revolves around him.
0 recs | 1269 comments
I wouldn’t trust Broussards’s sources. guy has been wrong about everything so far.
that said, it wouldn’t surprise me to see lebron go to miami. Sure it will make the cavs worse in the short run, but I almost think it would help the team long term, as well as my sanity.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Broussard has only provided speculation. No statements of fact that he has made have been proven incorrect.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
this is a murky area, if you report “All indication are that LeBron will sign with the heat, according to several sources,” you’re basically stating it as fact, without explicitly doing so.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I guess my point was, nothing he has said has been proven incorrect.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
didn’t he say there was no way New York signed any big free agents right before they signed Stoudemire?
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I don’t think so. I read through all of his tweets and he hinted in June that Knicks would get an early visit from Amare.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
I guess I’m just fed up with all the rumors. Not sure who posted it, but I know I saw “Wade to Chicago” everywhere just a few days ago.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
so fed up in fact, I won’t be watching espn tonight. doesn’t matter to me whether I find out tonight or tomorrow.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I think Broussard has been pretty on track with most of his reports so far.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Broussard has been reporting everything he hears. I would not give any special credence to a specific rumor.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Big free agents.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Amare Stoudemire was a big free agent…
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I was joking — I am not a fan of his but yes others definitely considered him a big free agent.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
yeah the guy is extremely overrated. without nash he won’t even be an all-star.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
He is like 6’10’’
bross09 - July 8, 2010
Windhorst seems to affirm that Lebron’s camp has told people Miami.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
i wonder why they would leak it to anyone, knowing he has this big TV special planned for tonight?
Dawg Nuts - July 8, 2010
He is making tonight interesting because now I am confident he goes to the Cavs…his people have been talking out of the sides of their mouths so much that sometimes, i just believe the opposite of what they say…especially here.
bross09 - July 8, 2010
This made me laugh, from the internal SB Nation email list…
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
Or headbands.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Actually, this is probably a prime motivator for him to have a press conference. He missed out on that announcement moment that many great high school athletes have.
Perhaps LeBron and Seantrel Henderson can make a joint announcement to Miami?
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Or a joint announcement to Ohio?
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
They can bring Clausen and a Hummer limo.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Only that I doubt LeBron will sign with the pacers.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Haha I was just saying a today that it would be funny if Lebron just out of nowhere just chooses a team like the Pacers.
TheRealSlimShady - July 8, 2010
that reminds me of something I was reading about how someone said their new favorite nba trade machine game was “blow up the cavs team” like last year it was "make the pacers an all-white team…lebron could add some needed color there.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Two articles for your reading pleasure:
-How The NBA Is Changing Before Our Eyes, written by our very own Bernie19Kosar (aka Matt Wood)
-Okay LeBron, since I just KNOW you’ll read this (as if), written on Fear the Sword by Richard
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
Great article, Bernie.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
If he does leave for Miami, I hope the city of Cleveland doesn’t blame him for wanting to play in Miami with Bosh and Wade. I just hope he doesn’t go to Chicago! But I was also hoping Tim Tebow would go anywhere besides Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or Denver.
OSUMoneyball - July 8, 2010
Chicago would be the best move from a basketball perspective. That team would be good, real good.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
I would blame him. Sure, he’d win championships, but it would be hard to consider him in the same breath as MJ, Magic, Bird, or even Kobe. None of them needed an all-star team to win a championship, and none of them were the second most popular player on their team.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Wade, Bosh & LeBron would be a good combo, but no guarantee of championships, and no less an “All Star” team than some of the others you mention.
1985 Lakers had Magic, Kareem (when he was still damn good) & Worthy — I’d take those three any day of the week over the supposed three going to Miami.
1996 Bulls — Jordan, Pippen & Rodman. I’d take them over the supposed Miami three as well.
Even the Lakers today — Kobe > LeBron. Pau > Bosh. Then I’d bet on the team and chemistry over the extra superstar in Wade.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
whoah, slow down there. I can’t say much about the old lakers teams, but I’m pretty sure Worthy wasn’t as good as any of the three going to miami.
I’ll give you jordan is better than lebron, but wade is better than pippen (when healthy), and rodman was a completely one-dimensional player, not even close to the same level as bosh. Dennis rodman averaged less than 6 points per game every season with the bulls. sure, he grabbed a lot of boards, but he’s no David Lee, never mind the same level as Bosh.
Kobe is not better than LeBron. every objective argument says the opposite. Heck, the game Kobe had in the finals were way worse than the games lebron put up against boston with an injured elbow. 6-24, 0-6 on 3’s, 70% FTs, 2-4 assists to turnovers? are you kidding me?
Pau very well may be better than Bosh, but you ignored Wade in your comparison, who is certainly better than Odom or whoever else you want to offer up.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
case in point on Worthy: His career averages are 17 pts 5 boards, getting rid of a few bad years at the end its probably closer to 20 and 6. Bosh is already putting up 20 and 9 for his career, and he just had a year of 24 and 11, something Worthy never even came close to.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Worthy played with way better players than any of those guys — of course, his averages are less.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
so if a guy has a better supporting cast but significantly worse stats, we must trust subjective viewing that he is much better?
I like to look at Usage % as a way to see if a guy is truly not getting enough chances. Worthy has career 23% usage percentage, very comparable to Pippen’s. He was used as much in LA as a third option as pippen was as a 2nd. He got a ton of chances, especially with rebounds.
And though he competed for a while with Kareem for rebounds, this definitely was not his whole career. In fact, once Kareem left, his rebounding numbers went DOWN. so if anything, the stats suggest that even a Kareem way past his prime garnered so much attention rebounding that worthy was much more able to slip in and grab rebounds.
Worthy in fact had his best years WITH kareem it can be argued, so what would he be in a career without playing with Kareem…definitely not as good as bosh.
bross09 - July 8, 2010
Look, the point is that that team had three superstars — three guys that made the NBA’s list of 50 greatest players of all time. If that does not qualify as having three superstars, I don’t know what qualifies. Of course, that list would be different today (I think only one guy remains active).
I think the point about what feels wrong about all of them possibly going to Miami is not that LeBron couldn’t do it without two other superstars, it’s that there is something inorganic about it. Magic’s Lakers had 3 superstars, but they didn’t just all team up one day and say we should play together. They were built as a team over the course of several years. Same with Jordan’s Bulls and other dynasties.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
I’m not saying they aren’t stars, But much like you did above, people tend to overrate players who were along for the ride. Worthy was great, I’m not denying that. All three of the players (possibly) going to miami are better.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I think Bosh is massively over rated.
He is Zach Randolph without a weight/drug problem.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Worthy > Bosh. (Different style players, diff’t positions for the most part, so you are not going to get a perfect comparison.) Worthy was not just a guy along for a ride — he was a huge player, first overall pick in the draft (in a pick the Lakers got from the Cavs, BTW), the leader of a national champ team at North Carolina that included MJ as a very good freshman. Dominated the 1988 NBA Finals.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
again, you have not given me a single argument for Worthy being better, only his teams being better. and what does draft position prove?
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
LIke I said, comparing Worthy’s stats to Bosh’s stats is a joke — Worthy played with a ton of great players, Bosh has not. Also, their positions are different. I saw Worthy play; I saw Bosh play. Worthy was a much better player. I ain’t seen Bosh do sh$t. Has he ever carried a team to any sort of meaningful win? I saw Worthy do that at least 10 times, including several times in the NBA finals. If Bosh retired tomorrow, would he be voted as one of the 50 best of all time? or 75 best to adjust for the extra ten years? Not a chance in hell. Worthy was. Objectively, that says a lot more than you as a random commenter on this website.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
If worthy had retired after seven years would he have been voted an all-time great? if he weren’t on the lakers of the 80’s would he be an all-time great?
I’m not saying he wasn’t a good player, but he gets very overrated because of the team he was on.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
That game does not work — because the first thing you hear from a Lakers fan (like me) is that if Worthy had been on any other team, he would have been the star the team was built around and his stats would be out of this world. Same thing you hear from a Bulls fan re Pippen. Are we right? Who knows? We will never know what would have happened if Chicago or another decently run team in the early 80’s got Worthy and tried to build around him. But my argument is just as valid as yours.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
actually we know what would happen with pippen, because MJ retired for two years. Pippen put up great stats. of course, he put up great stats with MJ too, something worthy can’t say.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
So? Bosh was the 4th overall pick in a draft considered by many to be much deeper.
I think Worthy deserves the HOF and I think Bosh is overrated, but I still say that Bosh right now is a slightly better player than worthy…but I agree that the comparison isn’t great because very different styles and they played different positions.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Bosh is pretty good. I know he’s been on mostly mediocre teams but that’s not his fault.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Isn’t it fair to blame Bosh for the crappy Raptors?
This isn’t the NFL or MLB. Star players are so much more influential in the NBA. Kevin Durant, albeit along with some decent draft picks (Westbrook) and trades (Sefolosha) has turned a franchise around.
Bosh hasn’t done that. Is there another max player that we can say that about?
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
its not fair. Keven Garnett was one of the best players in the NBA for a long time on a terrible Timberwolves team.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I hate to get into a comparison, but I think there WERE better pieces in place in toronto than there ever were in those terrible minnesota teams…Plus, while the teams may have been “terrible” for a while, Garnett made the playoffs in 6 straight years from 98-99 to 03-04.
And during those years, he never really had a legitimate #2 scoring threat…He had Terrell Brandon for a few years (who wasn’t that much better than Mo, if at all). Szczerbiak (who even in his prime was just a shooter who couldn’t drive that well and was successful because of open looks, especially when KG would get doubled)…and an aging Sprewell and Sam Cassel one year.
When you look at the team that he made the WCF with in ‘03-’04, it was a complete joke and I would be surprised if the team wasn’t the bottom 1-2 without him…TRENTON HASSELL was a starter on the wing for most of the season…I would be more surprised if you knew who he was.
I would say Garnett’s supporting cast was terrible, but the teams themselves were not terrible and had moderate success…I think he had the worst supporting cast out of all 3 mentioned (even the year with one last good year out of cassel and sprewell) and he had maybe the most success in the regular and postseason…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Right, Durant had better teammates than Bosh has had in Toronto. Besides, OKC hasn’t done any more in the playoffs than Bosh has so far (I know Bosh has played longer).
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Is Durant’s surrounding cast that much better?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I am actually asking. I think Calderon, Turkaglou, and Barngani isn’t chicken poop.
I mean Nenad Kristic started 72 games for OKC. Not to mention that OKC plays in the “tougher” conference.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Well for one Durant is definitely better than Bosh and he plays a wing position which changes the dynamic a bit, so it’s not really a fair comparison.
Russell Westbrook is >>>> than Jose Calderon. Jeff Green is very solid, Harden is a promising rookie.
Turkoglu is a solid player but needs to have a system that fits him well to succeed which was what Orlando was. He has had numerous ups and downs in his career depending on the team he played for.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
Well said.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Russell Westbrook was definitely better than Calderon this year but calderon was also hurt a lot…If you take calderon from the last couple seasons and compare him to Westbrook, westbrook is still better but by much less.
Green is solid, but you completely ignore that B19K mentioned Bargniani. Bargniani has really blossomed the last 2 seasons, especially in ‘09-’10. Bargniani came into the league very raw, everyone knew that. He has truly blossomed and is on the verge of stardom himself. It took dirk a couple years to blossom too and we could see numbers comparable to an early Dirk now that Bosh is gone.
Yes, Harden is promising but Derozan is just as promising of a guard…plus Derozan has a great wingspan. Hedo and derozan (at this point) aren’t great, but they are better than the 4th and 5th starters in OKC of Kristic and Thabo (I know different positions).
I actually think the supporting cast may be better at this point in toronto, but Durant is just better, i agree. But if bosh was really as good of a superstar as he is made out to be, that team should have easily finished above .500 in the east…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Look at what happened to Gasol from Grizzlies to Lakers. People said he was a bust who couldn’t lead a team to the playoffs, now he is a top 10 player in the league with better teammates.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
Is Gasol a Max player though?
If Bosh and Gasol are equal, and that makes a lot of sense, can anyone imagine Kobe signing with Golden State because Carmelo and Gasol do?
That is what I am struggling with when it comes to Bosh-LeBron relationship.
Good players, but I don’t understand why better players change their legacies for a “lesser” player.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Well max contracts are going out to not top tier players. In the current NBA environment, the market is in place for both Gasol and Bosh to definitely merit a max contract. I personally would probably give one to Gasol before Bosh, but it is pretty close. In either case, as a post player, they should definitely NOT be getting a max contract if they are intended to be your number 1 option. It just would not work out.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
Yeah, just because Bosh is getting a max contract doesn’t mean he’s on the same level as LeBron and Wade. If the NBA was a truly free market than LeBron would probably get twice what Bosh is making, but it isn’t. Miami has the cap space so they’re going to spend it on Bosh because that’s what it takes to get him and they can’t spend more on Wade or LeBron.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
at the same time, Gasol was going from a terrible cast to an All Star cast, but he didn’t suddenly become a great player and an All Star in his own right (though he didn’t always get credit for it because he played in Memphis). I don’t think he became all that better of a player in LA…he just didn’t HAVE to lead a team and I don’t believe bosh can do that either…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Agreed.
Those other dynasties came together over time. Not three guys meeting in secrecy agreeing to all join one team.
It is like three high school girls all agreeing to wear the same jeans. It is weak.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Thank you for seeing my point. The thing that is bothersome is not that there are three greats on one team, it’s that it is totally inorganic. It’s like they just said, “we quit” and took the easy way out without building a team. I’m not sure that will even work, but I guess we will see (I hope not obviously — I do hope LeBron stays in Cleveland).
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
I just don’t see even those 3 being able to carry a team of Jamal Maggloires, Antonio Danielses, Raja Bells, Chris Mihms, and Kenny Thomases…those are the only types of players they have money for at this point.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I agree. I think the lakers stars worked together because they were organic…this just feels too artificial and you need more than 3 players to make a team.
The Heat would have to sign the rest of their players on league minimum and there is NO way that the supporting cast is even in the same league as the Lakers. Rambis, Green and Cooper were excellent role/bench players; the kind it would be hard to find at league minimum, especially under the age of 35. Byron scott was also a star in his own right during those years in the late 80s.
I think the bit 3 in miami are better (mostly b/c of lebron and the fact that during those years, Kareem was also past his prime), but they will not be able to put a team together like the Lakers had and I give their chances at less than .1%.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
btw, that wasn’t the only terrible game Kobe had in the finals, the fact that he won MVP is an insult to basketball.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
There is no “objective” measure for this. But I think most would agree that Kobe is still a lot better than LeBron. 5 rings don’t lie my friend. Until LeBron gets one, there ain’t no conversation to have.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Put Gasol on the Cavs last year and Lebron has a ring.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
True. We had a better bench than the Lakers. If you could make two Gasol’s, put one on the Cavs, and one stay put, we’d beat them.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
…There are two Gasols.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
put shaq circa 2000 on the cavs and we would have won at LEAST 3 championships in a row…
bross09 - July 8, 2010
LeBron does not have the drive that Kobe has. There are few GM’s who would take last year’s Kobe over last year’s LeBron. And we won’t know if Gasol would win with LeBron.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
FAIL. Damn. “There are few GM’s who would NOT take last year’s Kobe over last year’s LeBron.” Damn. Shot myself in the foot.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
I don’t believe all that crap for a second. Thats just a way for laker fans to make a subjective argument for Kobe being better. I seem to remember LeBron having enough “drive” to get his pick up team to the finals a few years ago. I seem to remember lebron coming up huge in every playoff series he wasn’t injured.
as far as GMs preferring Kobe over LeBron, If you can show me a GM other than the lakers GM who thinks that, I’ll show you a GM who’s getting fired very soon.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
If LeBron goes to Miami to ride DWade’s coat tails, then I have MASSIVE questions about his drive.
I cannot name another NBA great that chose to be a sidekick in the prime of their career. I can’t imagine Jordan wanting to join the Celtics to win his first ring.
Kobe and Shaq damn near killed each other to prove that they were the better player.
I don’t know if LeBron has that.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
if he goes to miami it’s an open question, but until then he’s never given us a reason to think he isn’t driven.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I am of the belief that he is going.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
I’m also pretty sure he’s gone, and I’ll boo him if he does, but he’ll still have more game than kobe.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
we don’t know because they never played together…there were the same questions if he can be a good contributor on a championship team before he came to LA…the only reason its a given is because they just won one…we can’t say if he would have a better shot objectively with Kobe because it was just as uncertain before he won.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Haha . . .that’s a joke, right?
So, by that theory, Adam Morrison is better than LeBron because he has two rings. Teams win championships, not individuals. LeBron is better than Kobe is every measurable way, and has been for a few years. There are plenty of advanced basketball stats that measure value and every one rates LeBron much higher than Kobe.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Don’t dis Ammo — he is a fantastic bench-warmer, especially when wearing a suit.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Top shelf mustache as well.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
And he’s better than LeBron, right? He’s also better than Dwight Howard and Chris Paul and Deron Williams and Karl Malone and Charles Barkley because he has more rings than all of them combined.
You can’t use that logic for one player but not for another. That doesn’t make sense.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
He might not be better than LeBron, but the other guys . . .
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
The fact that you’re avoiding my quesiton my making jokes shows me that you don’t have a good answer. So I guess that rule only applies when its beneficial to your argument, right?
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Obviously, the point about comparing rings is well-taken. Otherwise, Horry is better than Jordan. The rings here represent Kobe’s drive and will to win. Like Bernie said above, if (and big if still) LeBron goes to Miami, that’s saying he does not believe he has it in him himself
-compare to Shaq and Kobe (stolen from Bernie) who blew up a great thing and basically tried to kill each other because they both wanted to be the man and wanted it to be their team.TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
In every measurable way, yes (except for rings, of course). Immeasurably though, Kobe has that killer instinct; the guy’s an assassin that possesses that will to win, and not just win but to destroy you, that seems to be characteristic of a lot of the greats in any sport. Sure, it is completely subjective and observational, but the point is only reinforced by Kobe yet again hoisting the trophy last season and LeBron going out looking like a deer in headlights. And that counts for at least something.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
he’s got such a great killer instinct that he went 6-24 in game seven of the finals
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Exactly. Things like that are just what people say when they don’t have any facts on their side. That’s the same argument we heard about Derek Jeter for years, about being “winner” and other intangibles which are completely subjective (and often wrong).
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Facts? Give me a break. Sports aren’t just a listing of stats and numbers; they are about real human emotion. Winning counts not because the score says you merely scored more points than your opponent but because it feels good. Get off your high horse already.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Yes. TEAMS win, not players. To give one player the entire credit for a team’s won or loss is wrong.
I know emotion is involved in sports, but that’s something we don’t know about and can’t measure, and people only use it when it fits them and they don’t have anything else to argue with. So many sports fans have been trained over the years by listening to sportswriters give credit to players and teams that win because they wanted it more, or they tried harder, or other measure of their character. But, usually it’s not about that. Winning doesn’t mean you tried harder or you cared more, it usually means that your team was better. The Lakers won because they were the better team, not because Kobe cared more than anyone else in the NBA. That’s just stuff people say after the fact.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I agree there is no way to measure it; that’s why I prefaced my original comment with “immeasurably.”
Yes, teams do win — usually composed of individuals.
Like I said originally, it is completely subjective and observational, but there really are things that don’t show up on the stat sheet.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Yes, there are things that don’t show up on the stat sheet, but how do you know what those things are? Here’s the problem with using things that are subjective and observational — people’s judgement and memory and beliefs are very flawed and full of biases. Not just you or me but everyone. How much have you actually watched Kobe play? How much do you know about what he does behind thes scenes? But you — and others — make all these assumptions about him based on the fact that his team won? That means he adds all this intangible stuff which LeBron doesn’t add because his team lost?
That’s the problem I have — when people make judgements about things they know very little about and use those judgements to validate their opinions whenever the facts are against them.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I’m humble enough not to claim to know all the subtleties. But I think we all form opinions based on our own observations. We all incorporate facts, too, of course, but there is a lot of gray area.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Here’s the problem with forming opinions based on observations — often times we’re wrong, for many reasons. One, because we don’t see every player actually play very often. Two, because we all have human faults which limit our observations. We come in to a situation with preconceived ideas and we look for things which support those ideas. And we remember those things which support our beliefs and forget those that don’t. That’s called confirmation bias and it distorts a lot of people’s thinking, which is why I’m always inclined to believe statistics that someone’s observations.
For example — and this ties directly in to the conversation here — a few months ago on PTI Wilbon and LeBatard were having a debate about who you’d want to take the last shot in a game, Kobe or LeBron. Of course, over the past couple years the consensus in the NBA (outside of Lakerland, at least) is that LeBron is the better playerbut Kobe is the guy you’d want taking the last shot of the game. And that’s pretty much what Wilbon said. But LeBatard came back with statistics — LeBron has taken the last shot less often and made it more often (so he has made more and shoots at a higher percentage). Of course, Wilbon came back with the usual stuff about Kobe’s reputation but LeBatard kept repeating those facts. So maybe their performance doesn’t actual fit their repuation and we should change our opinions on them, but that’s hard to do. Once a player gets a reputation it’s hard to change in the media and among fans.
As another example, for years A-Rod was denigrated for being “unclutch”. He would hit a home run in the early innings but always strike out in the 9th when it counted. Of course, that was all a load of crap. His stats in close and late situations in the game were almost exactly like his overall stats, so he does just fine in the clutch. But he has a few bad games in the playoffs and his teams lose when they shouldn’t, and he gets the reputation as a hitter who fails in the clutch. Even though the statistics say otherwise.
I didn’t mean to go on a long rant here, and this isn’t directed at you specifically but towards this whole conversation we’re having here, but these are two important examples of where people’s opinion based on observation is not backed up by facts. So this is why I’m hesitant to beleve someone when they tell me that they know one player is better than another player, even though all the statistics tell otherwise — based on their observations or some intagible qualities which can’t be defined and that person knows very little about. People are saying that Kobe is better because he wants to win more than LeBron, and he takes over the game at the end because he’s got a “winner’s mentality” or whatever, but the statistics actually say the opposite. It’s LeBron that has been the better shooter at the end of the game, not Kobe. Without that argument, I find it hard to see any reason that Kobe is a better player right now than LeBron.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
And all of your observations are completely fair and warranted. Still, it is very difficult, right now, for guys that in so many ways are so statistically similar and that play similar roles on their respective teams, to say that the one that has zero championships is better than the guy with five. If LeBron were to make your argument directly to Kobe, Kobe could look him square in the eye, put his arm around him, refer to his being at the summit five times and simply say, “Okay, so what’s your point?”
Also, keep this in mind: We all really hate LeBron James right now.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
his point would be anyone that thinks team accomplishments prove a single player is superior to another is full of crap.
The reason is, they are not statistically similar.
for his career, Lebron shoots a better precentage, grabs more boards and assists (both by large margians), has more steals, more blocks, and more points (again by a large margian).
two of the things Kobe is supposed to do better than lebron are steals and shooting, and the stats don’t even back that up. the only thing Kobe does better is take care of the ball, he averages 1 less turnover a game.
So even if you want to say rings can seperate statistically similar players, that argument doesn’t work here.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
My argument isn’t and has never been that Kobe is better than LeBron. I was merely emphasizing the importance of winning, especially championships.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
and again, does that make Ben Roethlisberger better than someone like Philip Rivers?
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
I think what you are failing to understand is that my emphasizing of the winning of championships is a point in and of itself. It is not merely a means of saying one player is better than another, which is the point you keep coming back to.
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
I keep coming back to that point because my original question was how anyone could consider kobe better than lebron, and the championships were brought up as the only reason.
I’m not discounting winning, I’m discounting it as trumping every statistical measure of player worth.
I’m also discounting the idea of kobe having some “killer instinct.” that is pure fabrication. maybe he has a better psychological makeup than lebron, one that is geared towards winning. but statistically he doesn’t perform as well as lebron at the end of games.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Okay, well, I wasn’t ever trying to address the ’who’s better?’ question head on. The point was more to say you can argue until you are blue in the face and correctly go point for point about all the ways LeBron is better than Kobe, and the Kobe apologist can still rest on his laurels with five championships in his back pocket.
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
well they can, but it doesn’t change that lebron is better.
Think of this: I can go point for point how dan marino is better than big ben, but big ben apologists can always point t two championships. while thats true, and it counts for something, it doesn’t change the fact that dan marino was a better qb.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Great, you win an argument. But what also doesn’t change is that you’ve got the statistically best player, but they’ve got championships. Which would you rather have?
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
championships, obviously, but that had nothing to do with the argument.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
The past doesn’t matter in this discussion. If I’m chooing a player to build my team around, I want the better player because he would be more likely to lead my team to a championship in the future. How many championships they won in the past doesn’t matter.
Your point has nothing to do with what we’ve been talking about.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Doesn’t matter? This whole conversation is complete esoteric, irrelevant blather. We aren’t the board for an NBA franchise looking at who to build a franchise around. It’s just a conversation.
Brad, just curious, how many words have to be committed to my point before it has something to do with what we are talking about?
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
not many, once they start being relevant to the original point. seriously, go back and look. the impetus for this whole thing was TDSH claiming Kobe was better and most GMs would take kobe over lebron. he even went so far as to claim both were obvious and the majority of people agreed with him. those two things were what this was about.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Yes, it’s a conversation, and this conversation was about whether Kobe or LeBron is the better player. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Okay, and I interjected to say — as often happens around here — while I agree with the basic premise that LeBron is better than Kobe, a certain difficulty presents itself when arguing against a guy who is sitting on five championships. Additionally, while readily admitting it is completely subjective, Kobe seems to have a sort of competitive instinct for getting it done by virtue of his proven success.
I’m not sure the reason for the sudden perplexity, especially considering the four paragraph novella I received in response just a few comments ago.
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
Without actually sifting through the comments here, I’m pretty sure this is the first time you’ve said lebron was better. I think the fact that you never said that made it appear as if you were arguing championships made kobe better than lebron.
of course, maybe you mentioned it before and this whole thing was me not paying attention.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
It seemed to me that you were arguing that Kobe was better because of his championships. If you agree with us that LeBron is better, then what was the point of all of this?
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Statistically speaking, of course LeBron is better. Again, though, I just come back to the value of championships, and, unless you discount them, the case that Kobe is the greater player is convincing. And I’m not trying to play word games there, it is just to say it is very difficult, in fact there probably is a bit of futility in it, in trying to prove LeBron is better than the guy with five rings, no matter the statistical evidence, etc.
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
but you are playing word games, whether you intend to or not. Kobe will have the greater legacy, regardless of what happens in miami now. that still doesn’t mean he’s a more skilled basketball player than lebron.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
I never took issue with who was more “skilled.” Now you are the one introducing new adjectives. I’d just point, again, to something I’ve already said:
One other thing though: How are you guys even in the mood to be defending LeBron at this point?
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
ok, it seems to me you have a strange definition on what “better” means.
when talking about which player is “better,” I thought it was understood we were talking about who was the best at playing basketball. lebron is the best at basketball, and is thus “better” than Kobe. You are using “greater” and “better” as synonyms, which they are not.
I’m in the mood to defend LeBron as better than Kobe because its true, regardless of how big of a douche he is. I’m not going to let a false claim go unchallenged just because it makes people feel better.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
I think it’s like Peyton Manning vs. Tom Brady, without trying to open a whole new can of worms.
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
since we’re avoiding a whole new can of worms, I won’t tell you who i think is better, though you can probably figure it out.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
Okay, then here’s something we both can agree on: Colt McCoy is better than both. Combined.
…
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
easily
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
They won, bud. We’re so pathetic and deferential as fans, Cleveland was defending LeBron after he lost.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
no, THE LAKERS won. they would have been better off if Kobe hadn’t played a single minute. Giving Kobe credit for that victory is like giving DA credit for the games the browns won last year. The lakers won in spite of kobe, not because of him.
to be clear, I’m not hating on the lakers, they were the best team last year, but they were just that, a team.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
The Lakers won in spite of Kobe? Would have been better off if Kobe hadn’t played a single minute? Yeah, and the Cavs are going to win it all this year because LeBron is gone.
Teams win that’s obvious. But as an individual player involved in a team sport, where greatness is defined by championships, Kobe has accomplished more than LeBron has and probably ever will.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
no, the cavs are going to suck with lebron gone.
look, I’m not calling kobe a bad player, I’m saying in a game where you would expect someone with “killer instinct” to shine he shat the bed. how in the WORLD does going 6-24 and shooting less than 70% from the line help a team win?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Having a killer instinct and being a great player doesn’t mean that a player will always come through with the big play or big game. It means that they will the majority of the time, he is human. Kobe has proven that over the course of his career. Just because he didn’t this year doesn’t ruin his legacy as a great player and champion.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
On the contrary though, he’s only had one season where he did come through, not the other way around.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Nobody is saying that he isn’t a great player and a champion. We’re saying that you can’t use the fact that his team won the championship — and he’s supposedly a “killer” clutch performer — to support the belief that he’s a better player than LeBron when all the stats support LeBron (by a large margin).
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I was actually talking about ntn saying the Lakers would have been better off with Kobe.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
for that one game, they would have been better with a replacement level player.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Ok. Unfortunately you don’t sign guys to one game contracts in hopes of them helping your team win that one game.
Uncle.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
that wasn’t my point at all, and you know it. my point was a guy who is supposed to have killer instinct shouldn’t play like the worst player on his team in game seven of the finals.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Well I’m arguing that LeBron is a better player than Kobe right now. All the statistics back up that argument, but the Kobe supporters say that he’s better because of his “clutch performance” which makes him a “winner”. If Kobe doesn’t have a good game in the clutch, though, then that kind of disputes that whole theory. So the facts lead to the conclusion that LeBron is a better player.
That’s the argument I’m making. I’m not saying the Lakers would be better off without him, because obviously having a player like him on your team makes everyone else better around him.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
And your argument is sound. Although, Kobe can still wave to LeBron with a ring on each finger.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
I approve of this particular action, not your ideals.
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
and thats all fine and dandy, but it doesn’t make kobe better.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Brad said:
To which I originally responded:
So, yes, I’ve always agreed with that and never said otherwise. Again, I was merely emphasizing winning and especially the winning of championships.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
He also said Joe Thomas and LeBron James were not the best in their sports.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
I guess then in your view the only way Kobe could have helped the Lakers more is if he was playing for their opponent.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
yes, how can you not see that? I’m sure the lakers would have loved for Paul Pierce to shoot 25% on a large volume of shots and turn the ball over all the time. how in the world does that performance help his team?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Sorry, I don’t have any special affinity for Kobe, but I just don’t see that.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
please explain to me how Kobe helped his team in that game. Lebron didn’t play that badly against the celtics, and everyone blasted him. Kobe plays that way in the finals, and he’s a “winner.”
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
what I mean is, how can you possibly defend that performance as helpful, let alone good?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
It’s simple, really.
Kobe = alpha dog on Lakers
LeBron = alpha dog on Cavs
Lakers beat Celtics
Cavs lose to Celtics
Kobe > LeBron
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
False, my friend. The test is what happens if you switch Kobe and Lebron. Lebron wins the title with the 2010 Lakers. Kobe also exits to the Celtics with the 2010 Cavs.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
I think you are correct with this. I do not think there is enough difference between them to ever really be able to say switching them would make a difference (even in a switch the other way).
rufio - July 9, 2010
That Lakers team that the Cavs dismantled on Christmas? Regardless, only one of those men hoisted the trophy, and the other looked like he had packed it in.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
You can’t honestly and objectively say that the Lakers supporting cast is worse than the Cavs. They were dismantled on Christmas because 1. its a regular season game and 2. Lebron was awesome on Christmas.
You are mixing up team vs player here. Kobe has rings, Lebron will have rings. Kobe was on a much better team with a much better coach.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Of course I can’t. But I think it is also wholly unreasonable to so boldly assume if you switch Kobe and LeBron, that LeBron automatically wins with the Lakers — in a series that went seven games (and specifically after a series in which the Celtics defense made LeBron look completely lost). The point about Christmas only furthers that point by suggesting, if that Lakers squad was so far and away superior as to guarantee LeBron a championship had he only played on that team, how did it ever allow LeBron and the Cavs to completely destroy it?
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Because they weren’t playing their hardest
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Oh, right. Well, in that case, switch out Kobe for LeBron and James is guaranteed a championship ring. Now that we’ve got that cleared up.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Ah, the old Rockland trick where you use the word guaranteed when I didn’t use that word. But yes, Lebron would have won the title if he were in Kobe’s plpace this year. I firmly believe that.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Sorry, I had to use the word “guaranteed” because I couldn’t think of any word stronger, which would have even more accurately conveyed your point.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Regular season.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Wow, that is some faulty logic.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Wasn’t meant to be airtight, just a basic sketch of my thinking on the matter.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Because of the immeasurable, non-statistic impact he had on the game. Kobe played poorly, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t help his team in a big way.
I know a few of you guys are dead set against this—and mostly rightfully so because a lot of the “he’s a winner” trolls are idiots who don’t have a point—but sometimes there is more truth in these kinds of things than stats would indicate.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Right.
And here’s one immeasurable: How much attention does Kobe draw when he’s got the ball? You can’t just sub Player X for Kobe and expect the same effect.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
If you commit to stop Jamal Lewis, Trent Dilfer looks like a competent QB. Jamal might only get 3.3ypc, but if Dilfer can throw the ball just well enough, you can win. Within the context of the style of play, of course. You have to play good enough defense.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Well, he did win, didn’t he?
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Yes, but this thread is about discounting winning to the fullest extent possible so we can defend some smuck that stabbed us all in the back.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
I don’t ever want to see a single one of you say Peyton Manning is better than Ben Roethlisberger ever again. If you do, you’re all hypocrites.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Why is that? Manning has one Ben has two? Also two different sports, one where almost for half the game they aren’t even playing.
Peyton Manning v Ben Roethlisberger does not even come close to comparing to
Lebron James v Kobe Bryant.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
ok, how about Marino. is Big Ben a better QB than Dan Marino?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
You could do this all day.
Notthatnoise if you QB the Browns to a Super Bowl win we’ll all love you more than Kosar. Because winning matters that much. It’s why the game is played.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
loving someone more isn’t the same as thinking they’re better. I love Z more than LeBron, but LeBron is the better player.
It’s fine if you think Kobe deserves more love or respect from his fans than LeBron does, I won’t argue that. I just think its a myth that Kobe has some sort of killer instinct.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Agree with this
Disagree with this
For the record, I hate Kobe. But psychologically, he is the best since Jordan.
rufio - July 9, 2010
My thoughts as well.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
completely agree with this…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Big Ben is obviously not on their level so winning a championship does not automatically put him there (trent dilfer). Anyone with a brain knows that.
Kobe and LeBron our much closer in talent and accomplishments which is why a discussion about championships between those two players adds to the discussion.
No one tries to compare Rip or Chauncey to either Lebron or Kobe and there’s a reason for that. It’s called having a logical discussion.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Whatever. The Steelers would be better with Ben Roethlisberger playing against them, right?
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
in some cases, yes.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
What I am trying to say is that even when Peyton has a “bad game”—esp. statistically, if the Colts win it still is because of Peyton.
rufio - July 9, 2010
I’m sorry, I’m looking for a reason Kobe is better than LeBron, not a reason the Lakers are better than the Cavs.
Also, we have these things called “statistics,” they’re pretty objective.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
If you think statistics are the only way to measure a player than you don’t know much.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
they’re the only objective way to do it.
even not using statistics, what possible argument can you give me as to why Kobe is better? you haven’t offered one up yet.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
You’ve got to be a Lakers fan, right? They’re the only people on earth who still think Kobe is better than LeBron.
Who needs “statistics” when all you have to do is look at the RRIINNNGGGZZZZ!!! That’s why Derek Jeter is better than A-Rod and Pujols, right? Who cares about stupid statistics, they don’t measure WINNERS who have HEART!!!
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Yes, I am definitely a Lakers fan. From LA, Dad is from Cleveland but left before the Cavs. Though I root for the Cavs in the East.
Although I am pretty sure the consensus among sports-writers is that Kobe is better today — LeBron has a lot more years so if you pick one guy long-term, LeBron is a no-brainer.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Maybe the consensus among LA sports writers.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Well, most sportwriters are idiots so I don’t go by what they say. Those same sportswriters probably said that Jeter was better than A-Rod for the past decade because he’s got more rings as well, and anyone who knows baseball knows that’s not true.
But, if you’re going to use sportswriters as an argument, they pretty much all just voted for LeBron as MVP so I really don’t know how you can say they think Kobe is better. That’s a pretty definitive measure right there.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
LeBron was clearly the MVP. His team was mediocre without him. The Lakers were still winning really well when Kobe was out so MVP does not equal best player in the league. Nowitski and Nash were not the best players in the league the years they won.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Wait . . . if the Cavs were mediocre without LeBron but the Lakers were still winning without Kobe, doesn’t that mean LeBron is the better player? How are you using that argument to say that Kobe is better?
You’re right, Nash and Nowitzki weren’t the best players when they won. Most people who know basketball said that at the time. As I said above, sportswriters are idiots. But YOU were the one who used the sportswriters argument, not me. You can’t say most sportswriters think Kobe is better when they just voted LeBron the MVP by a near unanimous margin a few months ago. That contradicts your argument.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Because the Lakers have more overall talent and, more importantly really, is that they are very well coached and have a solid system so that their super-star can sit out due to injury and they still do well. MVP =/ best player in the league so I am not sure why you brought it up. Jordan was the best player in the league every year he played in the 90’s, but he didn’t win the MVP every year. MVP is most valuable to their team. LeBron is more valuable to Cleveland than Kobe is to LA — that does not make him a better player. I don’t think that is even arguable.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
The better player is the most valuable. That is how “value” is defined.
And, you just said the Lakers have more talent overall, so doesn’t that destroy your theory that Kobe is better because he has more rings? He has more rings because he’s on a better team. Teams wins titles, not players. LeBron is better in every objective measure, and everyone but Lakers fans knows this.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Rings is part of the reason he is better. Far from the only reason. Going into the NBA playoffs tomorrow, who would you rather have? I don’t think many non-Cavs fans answer that with anything other than Kobe.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
OK, please show me some measureable reasons that Kobe is better than LeBron. Anything at all. Not his “attitude” or “heart” or that he’s a “winner” or anything else that you are purely speculating about. Something real. Something measurable.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Sometimes, it ain’t measureable. Kobe would never leave his team to go be second fiddle somewhere else. Going to D. Wade’s team is not heart, it’s quitting. It’s saying you don’t believe you can grow a team organically, you can’t lead. Again, do you disagree that going into the NBA playoffs tomorrow, you wouldn’t rather have Kobe over LeBron?
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
But even if Kobe would never do that, it doesn’t make him a better player. I guess you can say whatever you want if you don’t have any facts to back you up.
And if I had to win a basketball game tomorrow I’d chose LeBron over any player on the planet.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
And you’d be in the distinct minority on that one.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Haha. You’re really delusional out there is Lakerland, huh. I knew all the Lakers trolls who came to FTS to bash LeBron and the Cavs were delusional but I never expected to get that here.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
I’ve never posted on FTS. I would be shocked if there are any Lakers fans posting there. Your comments are lame, but I understand the emotion—-I am pissed too—-and I will let it slide. I am a die-hard Browns fan, and I know how it feels to be let down like this. I remember 1995.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Laker fans post there often. FTS is the most “trollable” of all the SBN blogs I’ve encountered.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
If you’re shocked then you’re even more delusional than I thought. Lakers fans are all over FTS all the time; every time we had a post about LeBron they’d come over and bash him and Cleveland and the Cavs and tell us why they thought Kobe was better. It was pathetic. Unfortunately, the moderators there didn’t do anything about it.
Also, my comments have nothing to do with LeBron leaving. He’s still the best player in the NBA, and I’m not going to change my views just because he left my team. I can be objective about it.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
LeBron is the best player in the NBA, but he’ll also never be as legendary as Jordan/Kobe/next in line because of this move. Provided he doesn’t win 10 straight championships now, of course.
And you can’t be objective about it, you are a subjective being. That doesn’t make you incorrect.
rufio - July 8, 2010
I hope LeBron literally gives the reigns to DWade and coasts. I want his kingdom to built on sand.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Well said and exactly right. He flushed his legacy down the drain.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
I totally agree. i will not deny Lebron being great, but I do think this tarnishes his legacy and he will never be as legendary as those 2.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I’m delusional because I think Kobe is better than Lebron? If that’s not a majority view, it is a substantial minority. Cut the personal attack bullshit. You are acting ridiculously. Seriously, Brad, you are way out of line here.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
That’s what I was responding to. You are delusional if you think that, because I’ve been following that site for as long as it’s been in existance and I’ve seen all the Lakers trolls who come there to bash LeBron. So don’t tell me that there aren’t any Lakers fans posting there when you don’t know.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
this point of his is going around in so many circles I am dizzy…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I’m sorry, I’m looking for a reason Kobe is better than LeBron, not a reason the Lakers are better than the Cavs.
Also, we have these things called “statistics,” they’re pretty objective.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Reason No. 1: Kobe’s not a quitter. Now, LeBron is. See Bernie’s comments. Can you imagine MJ leaving the Bulls in 1990 (when he still hadn’t won one after six years) because he really wanted to play with Karl Malone??? Quitter. Bitch. Kobe for the win.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Kobe isn’t a quitter??? Haha, how soon you forget. Do you really not remember Kobe calling a radio station a few years ago and demanding a trade? Or are you coveniently forgetting that because it doesn’t fit with your argument. Kobe is as much of a quitter as LeBron.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
He demanded a trade in a private meeting with ownership and the GM; he then confirmed rumours about it on the radio. Kobe did not quit on the Lakers at all. He didn’t think they were investing in talent to help him out and he was right. He asked to be traded and the Lakers agreed to it, but then felt they couldn’t get comparable talent.
He did not have a one hour special on ESPN and have no class and not call his current owner and let him know his decision. And remember Kobe was a free agent in 2004 — I don’t remember him turning it into a complete circus and then stabbing his team in the back. He resigned and played through some tough years.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
My point is, don’t act like Kobe is some kind of fierce warrior who will battle and fight to the end while at the same time calling LeBron a quitter. That’s hypocritical.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
His GM called him a quitter.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Kobe called his GM incompetent and publicly demanded a trade multiple times, so to pretend like he was any better than lebron is hypocritical.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I said his GM called LeBron a quitter. I wasn’t comparing their actions as people.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
well then your comment had very little to do with brad’s.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Kobe didn’t quit. He imposed his will yes, but he didn’t quit.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
he imposed his will by having one the worst games in his career.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
? First I talk about quitting in a game then you tell me i’m not responding to Brad, so i address the quitting in the form of badmouthing his team and then you want to talk about a game. When you figure out why you hate Kobe let me know and then maybe I can respond without having to chase a string.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
sorry, I got confused about which section I was responding to.
Brad’s comment:
your comment:
My point was Kobe tried to quit, but didn’t have enough leverage to force a trade.notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Oh, so because he wasn’t successful then it’s OK what he did? If I try to rob a bank but don’t get any money then I won’t get arrested?
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
HYPERBOLE ALERT
I didn’t say that. I said he didn’t quit on his team I also said he went about it in an asshole way. Lebron quit on you and the entire Cleveland fanbase. guy completely ignored your coaching search and then ignored your owner. He instead chose to have a 1 hour show on ESPN announcing his decision. He contacted the Heat and told them prior his decision his flunky contacted the Cavs. He said he didn’t contact the Cavs because he didn’t want to ruin the show because it would hurt the charities.
Kobe demanded a trade because his team told them when he signed they were in a win mode and then later changed their view point to rebuilding mode.
Vilify Kobe all you want but at least stick to the facts. Kobe’s management quit on him first, Lebron just flat out quit on the Cavs while they were in the process of trying to give him the world, even while they (dan gilbert) believed that Lebron had already quit on them in the prior playoffs.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Also would you have taken Lebron imposing his will to acquire players over him leaving the team?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
LeBron did that though. LeBron is the reason they got Shaq and Jameson.
What LeBron did is worse, I’m not arguing that, but you can’t pretend Kobe never acted like a little girl.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Lebron also just did what he did last night.
Also I’m not calling a Kobe a saint, i’m fairly certain i’ve called him an asshole at least twice in this thread.
Kobe acted like what you said and Lebron acted like the spoiled brat (chosen one) he’s always been.
I’m just pissed he’s in Miami because now I feel dirty rooting for them.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
fairly hog certain?
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
Not hog certain, that’s too definite.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
this really needs to make a comeback
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
then you agreed with us? our only point was to show that TDSH was being hypocritical by not calling kobe a quitter. just because he tried to quit and failed doesn’t mean he’s not a quitter.
I never said kobe was as bad or worse than lebron, just that if one is a quitter they both are.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
By what you said i meant a little girl.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
fair enough, I’ll settle for “lebron is a quitter and kobe is a little girl”
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Actually you don’t quite remember 2004 accurately then. Kobe flirted with every team with marginal cap space. Sure, he ended up resigning, but don’t pretend for a second it wasn’t a circus.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
It’s convenient to forget things that don’t fit your story line. Many people thought Kobe was seriously going to the Clippers, or at least he made it look that way.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Well conveniently no one has to forget the 1 hour Kobe special because he didn’t have one.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
never mind all the trade demands, calling his gm “incompetent” or talking about how terrible his teammates are (specifically Andrew Bynum).
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
All of which don’t compare to hosting a 1 hour ego-stroke fest on world television.
In my opinion, LeBron’s ego serves to further his fame while Kobe’s ego is geared toward winning and being great.
No I don’t have any stats, it’s just my opinion and you can disregard it if you want, i really don’t care. LeBron didn’t make any demands to make his team better he just left, even the GM agrees with that.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
the trade demands were not demanding they trade for people, Kobe wanted to be traded. he wanted out. And if his ego was really geared towards winning he wouldn’t have pushed shaq out of town. he did that for fame, not to win games.
I’m not saying its on the same level as the one hour special, but he was awfully close.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Once again, he wanted to be traded because of the teams moves. He didn’t feel they were trying to win and instead were attempting a rebuild. Asshole move? Yeah probably, but he didn’t quit and he addressed the issue instead of keeping his team in the dark and then hosting a 1 hour special to announce he was leaving.
“[The Lakers] obviously want to move in a different direction in terms of rebuilding,” Bryant said, adding he could have opted to sign with the Los Angeles Clippers or Chicago Bulls instead. “Three years ago when I was re-signing they should have told me they wanted to rebuild.”
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
And Jerry was right — Lamar, Caron Butler and a draft pick were good value for a declining Shaq.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
I’m not disputing that, I posted that quote because ntn said that Kobe pushed shaq out, which does not appear to be the case.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
You can’t change the document past.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
documented
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
right, and as you pointed out, it was well documented that Kobe wanted to quit on the lakers.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
He didn’t want to quit or try to quit on the Lakers he was lied to and because of that he asked for a trade.
LeBron wasn’t lied to he was promised the world said screw and then left. Two different situations.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Sure you can. (not saying you did here)
rufio - July 9, 2010
Ha, yeah you’re right.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
so he had a 1 hour ego-stroke fest? yes. But in reality, that is the only large difference I see with the scale of their actions.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Really not the free agent summit? Team Lebron?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
there was no free agent summit. I don’t even know what team lebron is?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I’m talking about the whole mess of nonsense about the free agent summit we’ve been hearing the last few months.
Team Lebron would be his flunkies. The one’s the original king of suck mixed it up with.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
ahh, gotcha. yeah, while I understand he likes his friends and all, I can’t imagine 25 year-olds with zero experience in marketing or business being the best people to take advice from.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Please give me a cite to Kobe calling his teammates terrible — other than what he supposedly said about Kwame Brown and Smush Parker after losing to Phoenix in 2007, both of whom suck big time.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
and here you go, first result from google search of “Kobe Bryant criticizes Andrew Bynum”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2909549
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
here’s another:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/arash_markazi/06/19/kobe/
so yeah, totally didn’t make it a circus.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
also, I find it hilarious that you ask me to find evidence of kobe trashing his teammates while offering up an instance yourself.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Just because he didn’t do it to the extent that LeBron did doesn’t mean that he wasn’t courting other teams as well. Yes, Kobe doesn’t have the same personality as LeBron, and he doesn’t have the same interest in marketing himself that LeBron does, but that doesn’t make him any more loyal to the Lakers than LeBron was to the Cavs. Kobe just couldn’t find anything better than the Lakers.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I never claimed Kobe didn’t court other teams. I said he didn’t put on a 1 hr main event following a year long circus. I also never claimed Kobe was loyal.
I said he didn’t quit on his team he wanted his team to become better and his management didn’t want to do that.
I could argue that Kobe didn’t want to find anything better than the Lakers he just wanted the Lakers to get better, but I have no stats so you’ll just tell me your typical rant, and you know what you’re right i don’t have statistical proof of that but Kobe came back and his team got better, even won a championship. You can’t always prove or disprove something with stats.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
nobody has been talking stats for a long time, quit throwing that out there.
you’re missing our point. Kobe TRIED TO QUIT. just because his team wouldn’t let him doesn’t mean he’s not a quitter.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
His team quit. Kobe tried to remove himself from the quitting situation.
Lebron held a one hour press conference telling Cleveland to kiss off.
You’re missing my point those two situations and actions do not compare.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
I’m not saying the two situations are the same or on the same level. I’m saying just because people choose to forget it doesn’t mean Kobe wasn’t an ass too, albeit a smaller ass.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Kobe also raped someone.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
eh, I don’t know about that. at a minimum he cheated on his wife, and it could even have been rape, but I don’t think we’ll ever know.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Let’s not go there. We don’t know what happened.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
But everyone seems to be sure Ray Lewis killed someone…
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
because his story doesn’t make any sense.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I never said that.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Are you sure he didn’t kill someone?
Roger Dorn - July 10, 2010
I never said that.
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
so because he doesn’t have a 1 hour media special, he didn’t significantly flirt with other teams or talk of quitting his team? Lebrons actions are worse yes, but that doesn’t at all condone what Kobe has done. people forget, but after lebron, kobe is one of the all time greats as a superstar with these things.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
There’s nothing wrong with flirting with other teams, and in fact there is nothing wrong with going to another team — he is a free man. What hurts his image is that he is going somewhere to play with his bestest girlfriends, and he obviously does not think that a team can be built around him. He is going to D-Wade’s team and they are building around the big 3. It’d be like MJ leaving the Bulls because he really wanted to play with his bestest friends Karl Malone and, I don’t know, Charles Barkley on Karl’s team. It just ain’t the sign of a confident guy. Dynasties get built much more organically (except the Yankees today to the extent you count them); they don’t get built by three dudes making a blood pact in Beijing and crossing their hearts that they will play together no matter what.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
I agree…what lebron did was much worse, but its not like kobe didn’t try. Michael even considered it, but he had the confidence he could win in Chicago…I guess kobe had some lukewarm confidence, but lebron does not have enough confidence in his own skills to stay…I am convinced. If lebron had confidence, he wouldn’t NEED to go to miami.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
There is everything wrong with him going to another team.
rufio - July 10, 2010
and neither of them have truly "quit’ on the quart as far as we know and as far as the stats show.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
kobe only quit on the pint.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
We both swung at that one, eh DN?
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
we’re so predictable, aren’t we?
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
No real man quits on a pint.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
then i guess i should have used lebron in that statement.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
iswydt
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Although I guess it’s not as bad as quieting the quart though really it’s obvious they aren’t quite the same.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
That’s questionable.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I bet Kobe could figure it out before Lebron.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
That’s not quantifiable.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Fallacy of false ad hominem dichotomies.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
lets just say I am not surprised that out of 100 new comments on this story roughly 70% come from one person.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Someone predicted it yesterday.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
i laughed at that actually.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
ME! =D
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
and that someone hasn’t had internet access since wednesday and missed the whole thread.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Do you realize that you don’t have to add your two cents in every conversation on this site?
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
and I haven’t…I haven’t likely even added my two cents into half of the conversations.
you insist (and many others do) that I insert myself in all the conversations but on this thread, there are several that I am just skipping through and not even reading…so yea, I am putting my two cents into those.
bross09 - July 10, 2010
Why do you keep doing this? Seriously? You can’t really be this oblivious, can you? Sometimes I wonder if you’re just messing with us all the time, and you’re sitting at your computer and laughing at us for taking you seriously.
Obviously, when we say every conversation we’re exaggerating. You know that — or you should — so why even bother telling me that you haven’t responded to every comment? But you get the point that we’re making. So please stop this nonsense.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
You know he is going to respond to this right?
Bernie19Kosar - July 10, 2010
Where the heck is mooncamping when you need him?!
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
thank you.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
I tried to rec this from two different computers. Didnt work
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
and Lebron Quit by the ounce.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
See, here is the problem with adding this response after many other people have commented. There is a huge space above your comment and nobody knows what you’re replying to so we miss the joke.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
So I am not allowed to make a joke later? Many other people who aren’t there for the joke to, but because it is me, i just can’t…
I would say most people around here know how to use the up button…saying nobody understands doesn’t really hold water.
bross09 - July 10, 2010
Sigh.
Why do you do this? Really . . . . why?
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Maybe they only quit on the gallon?
(Sorry, it’s Friday.)
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
not taking anything away from LeBron
But don’t forget Kobe was playing with a broken finger AND a messed up leg. I still believe LeBron is a better player but Kobe was going through problems too.
siejecy - July 8, 2010
I’m not trying to say Kobe had no excuse. I’m saying its extremely hypocritical to call lebron a quitter and not do the same for kobe. its ok for one guy to play badly while injured but not for another?
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I still say that LeBron and the Cavs go to the Finals if LeBron doesn’t have a injured elbow in the post season. We’ve seen what LeBron could do healthy (score 23 straight points against a stacked Detroit defense). I’m pretty sure he could have taken Boston with no problem.
siejecy - July 8, 2010
I blame Mike Brown being out-coached at a laughable level more than I blame LeBron’s elbow.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Yes that too
I also say the Cavs go to the finals if we get Amare instead of Jamison. A lot of people may not agree with me though.
siejecy - July 8, 2010
Yeah, I never called LeBron a quitter. And Kobe had a bad game in game 7 and game 3 but he didn’t “quit” in either game. So “quitter” is not really an issue for either of them.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
If LeBron leaves Cleveland, the first word I will associate with him is quitter.
I hope that doesn’t come true.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Scratch that — I just called him a quitter, because he is one.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
I’ll give you Kobe’s shooting numbers for every game, because I don’t have time to point out just how bad the whole series was.
game 1: 10-22
game2: 8-20
game 3: 10-29
game 4: 10-22
game 5: 13-27
game 6: 9-19
game 7: 6-24
he had a terrible assist/turnover ratio too, so its not like he was helping in other areas. Also, shouldn’t all that stuff about Kobe being “driven” and a “winner” make him have a better game 7? I mean come on, the deciding game of the series is where he has his worst game (and it is pretty terrible). that hardly spells winner to me. Seems pretty lucky the lakers got gifted Pau Gasol.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I am still of the belief that LeBron is better than Kobe (…on the court)
There is still something in basketball about being the best guy on the best team, being able to draw the attention and resources of a defense and still win a championship—despite not putting up great numbers.
In baseball, you can take a more “objective” numerical approach than most other sports (basketball included) because every batter is the (almost) sole focus of the defense/pitcher, and if there are runners on base stats are probably kept for those specific situations.
Kobe was “objectively” not very good offensively in the finals. But if you take into account the context of the style of game that was being played the numbers aren’t as bad. Factor in Boston’s gameplan, the fact that the “volume scorer” can actually matter in basketball, and the fact that his team won, and it is a little difficult to bring this up to say he is not a winner.
Kobe (more often than LeBron) displays a psychological makeup that is correlated to winning. While simply lucking out and being on a winning team shouldn’t really factor in to the strength of the player, psychology should.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Kobe played like Baron Davis in that series. Pau Gasol was the MVP, not just because he was extremely more consistent, but also because he shut down Garnett. Garnett only scored 20 once, and only grabbed more than 6 boards once. Pau Gasol was the winner on that team last year, not Kobe.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Kobe doesn’t win that championship without Pau. That’s why it is a team game. But if you are trying to tell me Kobe wasn’t the best player on the Lakers, you are out of your mind.
rufio - July 9, 2010
he was for the majority of the season, but not during that series.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Jordan didn’t always hit the game winning/series clinching shot in the Finals.
You can’t say a team can remove a player for a series and would still win a title. It doesn’t work that way. They needed Kobe to get where they were, that’s part of the team aspect of the game and the point behind having a regular season and a playoff.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Also, he was still the best player on the team and always will be, even if another player outperforms him.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
If you take Kobe out of those games and put in a 2 who isn’t Kobe but has better career shooting averages than what Kobe shot in the series, the Lakers get blown out.
Provided that 2 isn’t MJ or someone on that level (arguably Wade and Durant)
rufio - July 9, 2010
I simply don’t believe this. how can you say subbing in a player who performs better hurts a team? it just doesn’t make any sense.
I would take Momass pulling in 8 receptions for 100 yards and a TD over Calvin Johnson getting one recepttion with 5 drops for 12 yards. maybe that’s just me though.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
What happens on the other side of the field?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
it doesn’t matter. It should be obvious that one player is performing better than the other. WRs don’t play defense.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Obviously but a defense plays a WR. You play to win, and you are stating that you can just simply sub out one player and create a better outcome and that is a huge leap of faith.
If a team plays both guys with straight up man then maybe you have a point, but who would do that outside of Revis and a few others.
Obviously the Lions suck, but you could hold a player of Johnson’s caliber and still lose while allowing a player like MoMass those stats and still win.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Your definittion of “is playing better” ≠ helping their team win more.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Because what happens on average doesn’t happen against that defense.
They were playing great Boston D, making great players look bad and bad players look awful.
Two separate players in two separate games is completely different. But I would take Megatron with 5 drops, 12 yards, drawing double and triple coverage and allowing Kevin Smith to rush for 300 yards in a win over MoMass getting 100 yards in a game we lose to the same team en route to 200 yards total offense.
rufio - July 9, 2010
I just disagree…The lakers were the overall better team and won because of that and Gasol. I especially disagree if the player was similarly good on D to kobe. Kobe just was not all that good in the series…If you have a more efficient scorer, but a bit less volume, they still win but its still in 7 IMO.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Similarly good on D is a big IF — you are forgetting that Kobe is no slouch on defense. Probably one of the five or ten best defenders in the league.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
Maybe not best 5-10 but I do agree he is very good-great.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
He’s first team all-defense and has been for the last five or six years and several times before that (including a couple second team all defense). He was first team all-defense in his 3rd year in the NBA, before the Lakers were a championship team. He’s definitely top 10 if not top 5.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
and lebron was perfectly healthy during the game where he was skewered by many for “quitting” on the flloor…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
The 80’s Lakers teams were built mostly through the draft, not some hyped up BS on TV. LJ is way too full of himself, if he thinks he’s the missing piece to championships. He’s a missing link alright, right to the outhouse. Facts are Jabbar, Johnson, worthy, cooper, rambus and many more played together as a team, and played hard all 60 minutes. Wannabe King doesn’t know how to play all the time and plain out quit on his team, during playoff games no less. I’m glad he’s leaving, now the Cavs can build a “TEAM”, and win games the way the sport was set up to play….
J. W. - July 9, 2010
That’s absolutely ridiculous. The Cavs are not better off without LeBron James.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Are you a robot? You aren’t at all angry at this?
rufio - July 9, 2010
What, that LeBron left? Of course I’m angry. But it’s ridiculous to say that the Cavs are better of without him because now we can build a TEAM the way the sport was meant to be played (whatever that means). That’s just stupid.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
You don’t feel that something about this is wrong? That something about free agency is wrong? That something about stabbing your home city (and let’s be real, Akron really is just an extention of Cleveland and Bron is only separating the two to attempt to distance himself from fucking us over) in the back is somehow against the way the game is supposed to be played?
I mean, I am as postmodern and open to change as the next guy, but for me, there is still something about the clearly drawn lines of you against me, us against them of sports that make them appealing if only as simplified, dumbed down versions of reality that mimic the cold war more than our contemporary era.
To be blunt: this is not the way the game is supposed to be played.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Well, I really don’t think that’s what he meant by “the way the game was meant to be played”. I think he was speaking of the actual game on the court, not metaphorically.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Fair. Not what I would have meant.
LeBron always passed when he should have, which is probably the standard by which “team players” are judged today. On the court, I don’t have many bad things to say about him.
But this move exemplifies what is wrong with sports today, and I say that as someone who isn’t usually on that side of the “what is wrong with X today” discussions.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Yeah, my point was that there was nothing wrong with the way LeBron played the game on the court that held the Cavs back. We’re certainly not better off without him.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
In that respect, no. We are looking for the next him now. One that will stay in Cleveland.
rufio - July 9, 2010
This comment leads me to believe that rufio would be a fun guy to drink with.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
How far are you from the Rocky Mountains? I’ve got beers and I don’t think I can finish em all.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Too far, unfortunately.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
I think you aren’t trying hard enough.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
History would see him going to Wade’s team and put him at least behind Dwayne.
rufio - July 8, 2010
exactly. I don’t think he wants that, but maybe someone has convinced him that wouldn’t be the case.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
It would be, I just hope he cares about it more than riding along for 6 championships.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Watch me blame him.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
I’m reading from yahoo that most sources are pointing to Miami
speculation though, nothing more
Kimble_79 - July 8, 2010
To me this is simple. It is very difficult to name any person who can be considered a “hero” to his home area, that had the opportunity to be basically be beloved for the rest of his life just for playing sports where he grew up, all the while making a gazillion dollars. These opportunities are incredibly rare (in fact, I can’t think of anyone that has ever paralleled his opportunity). The ONLY people that want him out of Cleveland are the basketball fans in the other cities that have a shot. 90 percent of the population thinks he should stay. Why would he want to be perceived negatively by 90 percent of the fans in the country?
Bottom line, if he wants a lasting “LeBron legacy,” he stays. If he is less (or not at all) interested in his legacy, he leaves. I think he will consider his legacy to be most important to him. If not, he is not as smart or genuine as he portrays himself to be.
Nuclear Power - July 8, 2010
Amen, he’s as fake as a three dollar bill.
J. W. - July 9, 2010
For the record, I think he is gone.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
I tend to agree
Kimble_79 - July 8, 2010
same, and even though I think he wins championships in miami, I don’t think he’ll every be considered as great as he wants to be. Miami already belongs to Dwayne Wade, LeBron is just a sidekick there.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Yes
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I think he stays only because it seems like his camp has made us believe he is going to Miami…and I don’t trust them…Its all a ploy for more suspense.
bross09 - July 8, 2010
I think he stays for a few reasons.
A.) If he leaves for Miami, he joins Wade’s team, and whatever happens he will not be the big fish there that he is in Cleveland. He shares fame with two other guys and people say he needed Wade and Bosh to do it because he couldn’t do it by himself in Cleveland. And let’s not forget, how many years has it been since Miami has had a championship?
B.) If he stays, he is the absolute biggest name in all of Ohio, and if/when the Cavs win the championship (they’ve been painfully close the past 3 years, right?), everyone in the sports world will know that LeBron won Cleveland a championship. And let’s not forget, how many years has it been since Cleveland has had a championship? (I don’t even need to say what will happen when someone finally does bring a championship to Cleveland- we all know full well)
C.) If LeBron leaves, the Cavs are a below average team. In essence, I believe if he leaves then he takes a championship-caliber team away from Cleveland. If he leaves, I think he becomes my generation’s Art Modell and is hated by everyone in his home state of Ohio.
D.) Does anyone disagree with me that LeBron would just look weird in a Miami Heat jersey?
shep615 - July 8, 2010
I agree with D, but I think those jerseys are ugly in general.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I don’t disagree with any of your points, but I don’t find them to be compelling reasons to make his decision on. I am confident Lebron doesn’t care about the media made-up story about not being able to win without a certain kind of complimentary player.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
I’m sure of quite the opposite in fact. LeBron is obsessed with his legacy and his brand. The media gets to determine his legace.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I posted the above at Fear the Sword.
He isn’t going anywhere. Ticket sales are up in Miami, Chicago, New York, and New Jersey. MSG stock has risen 3% over the past two weeks. It is in the NBA’s and ESPN’s best interests to hype this announcement in 6 different directions, pulling in eyes and excitement for every applicable NBA team.
This Heat rumors all come from the same source, who is leaking it to different media types that want to make a name for themselves. Broussard, Lebatard, TMZ, etc. They are all reporters of a certain quality, being manipulated to draw in eyes from various markets.
LeBron is not going anywhere.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
as much as my opinion of the guy has wavered over the past year, I still wouldn’t want to see him leave.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Explain Windhorst then, saying this morning that it looks like Miami.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
That’s pretty much the kicker for me.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Windhorst is being fed this by LeBron’s camp. LeBron’s camp wants this to be a surprise. It is media manipulation at its finest.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Well, you could still be right. I just hope you aren’t setting yourself up for disaster here.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
You know, I just read Ian Thomsen’s article as SI.com and I think you and he have me convinced now. No one could be a big enough douche to betray their hometown on national TV.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
I read that, too. But part of me has this bad feeling…
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Somebody ask for a douche?
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Same shit, different asshole.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
SUPER REC.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
REC
J. W. - July 9, 2010
I agree. I think the opposite of whatever lebron’s camp is saying.
bross09 - July 8, 2010
I agree that it makes no sense for ESPN or LeBron’s camp to leak anything now. I am still nervous as hell.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Hell, it can be Chicago for all we know,
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
So this is where the discussion is. FTS is pretty dead right now.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I’m watching Bruce Drennan now. I like this guy.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I can’t stand that guy haha.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I work at a restaurant, so sometimes closing takes long and sometimes it doesn’t. Last night I was there until 9:15ish. I want to be able to watch this so badly, but I’ll probably have to rely on a text.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Which restaurant?
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
It’s a restaurant similar to Panera. It sucks, but it’s a job haha.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
That’s like Steak n’ Shake. Coolest restaurants.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-is-packing-his-beach-bags-for-Miami?urn=nba,254632
Take it for what its worth, but this could be a hint
Kimble_79 - July 8, 2010
I’m a bit bothered that LeBron has coined this “The Decision”. Is he trying to make a mockery of all the other sports heartsbreaks we’ve had?
emily522 - July 8, 2010
If it’s going to go down in history as one of Cleveland’s infamous “The’s” I will only ever call it: “The Circus”
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
Well, gotta go to work. I’ll be back when I can…. :-/
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Browns sign Bobby Engram.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
Dorn, this isn’t the place to talk about the Browns. We’re discussing LeBron here!
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
please stay on topic, we frown upon that type of thing here.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
I’m not watching this nonsense tonight. He’s a hell of an athlete and I’d hate to see him leave town, but the absurdity this has become is staggering.
One way or another, it reveals what kind of man he is tonight. It takes chutzpah to turn the tearing out the heart of your home town from a press conference into a nationally televised spectacle by choice. On that note, I think he stays, because I don’t think he’s that big of a prick.
If he goes though, he better update that twitter bio from “King of Akron” to “Pariah of Akron.”
ouched - July 8, 2010
Turns out he’s that kinda of prick. I’m not a great fan of basketball, but I do believe in LOYALTY. This prick needs to live with art, he’s no better.
J. W. - July 9, 2010
Alas. I was wrong. He is that big of a prick. I wonder how he can look at that loyalty tattoo with a strait face.
On a higher note, the evening left me wishing Dan Gilbert owned the Indians as well. He might be a long term disaster in a sport without a salary cap, but he’d be a welcome breath of fresh air over the Dolans.
ouched - July 9, 2010
we should see if we can get them to switch teams.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Joe Thomas > JeBron James
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
Am I the only person who cannot understand why everyone is all over Chris Bosh’s nuts?
I mean is LeBron really willing to go to Miami because Bosh went there? After all isn’t the thinking that is Bosh agreed to a S&T to Cleveland, LeBron would be a lock?
Chris Bosh is a okay player, but to change your legacy as a player for Bosh? WTF?
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
No, you are not.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
he’s a very young power forward who just averaged 24 and 11. there aren’t many players who can do that.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
Zach Randolph is the same player.
Not to mention that Bosh has played in 11 playoff games. If he is a “superstar” he should make the playoffs in the NBA.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Come one, he’s much better than Zach Randolph. It’s not his fault that he’s been on mediocre teams. It’s not his fault that Toronto wasted the #1 pick on Andrea Barnangi (or whatever his name is).
No, he’s not a superstar on the LeBron/Wade level but he’s really good.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
but Bargnani is not a bad player, in fact he is the best player at this point picked in the top 5 spots in that draft and IMO, the 2nd or 3rd best lottery pick in the draft.
His supporting cast gets underrated though. Demar Derozan is an excellent young player, Bargniani is blossoming, Calderon is a very good floor general when healthy, and Turkoglu is good when asked to do more shooting and less other stuff than he has.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
you haven’t looked at the stats have you?
bosh averages 3 more points, half an assist more, about one rebound more, one more block, and has a 3% higher shooting and free throw percentage. He even has a higher 3-point percentage.
Bosh isn’t a superstar like LeBron or Wade, But he’s one of the top 5 power forwards in the league.
notthatnoise - July 8, 2010
You just proved my point.
3 more points, .5 assist more, 1 rebound more, 1 block more and a slightly higher shooting percentage.
Than Zach Randolph.
Those are minimal! Would you give Randolph a max contract? He is a nice player. Nothing more. Build a team around him and you have a 40 win team. Nice player? Sure, but to be the pied piper for LeBron is foolish.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Bosh is a very good player. He is not a great player.
rufio - July 8, 2010
those aren’t minimal, especially when you consider Bosh is very young and has been getting petter, whereas Zach Randolph has already peaked.
they aren’t as far away as sportswriters would have you think, but Bosh is definitely better.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Bosh was 4th in PER and 7th in Offensive Win Shares last season. And he’s only 26. He’s pretty good.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
He’s quite good. To compare him to Zach Randolph is laughable. He’s not a player that can alone lead you to playoff wins, mainly because post men without another strong player on the team will never get you anywhere alone. That said, like with what happened to Gasol and Garnett, these guys will be great with a strong supporting cast.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
Right. Guys like that need players to get the ball to them, so they can’t dominate a game like LeBron or Wade or Kobe. But he’s a really good player who can thrive when on a team with another star, like Gasol did.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Total Win shares in ‘09-’10
Randolph 9.7
Bosh 9.6
Just sayin’
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Oh, and Memphis also had the same 40-42 record that Toronto did last season.
In the Western Conference.
I telling you guys, same player.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Chris Bosh also got injured for a large stretch of last year.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
But Randolph has never been anywhere close to that in his career. His second highest is 7.1, and Bosh has been well above that for the last five years. Consistancy matters over one great year.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Nope, I see him average.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I hope Mike Brown sneaks up from behind LeBron right before his decision and smacks him with a chair, WWE style. Considering how ridiculous this all is, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Then the lights go and Danny Ferry floats to the stage and challenges them both to a triple threat casket match for a max contract.
Adrock2099 - July 8, 2010
Paul Silas comes out of the rafters!
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Ladders
Villeslgr - July 8, 2010
Funny you mention the WWE style, lol. Someone on the SBN internal list mentioned the thought of the Cavs and Heat GM’s there, and after LeBron says he’s with the Cavs and our GM celebrates, the Miami GM hits him with a steel chair and LeBron removes his dress shirt to reveal a Heat jersey.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
I think it would be cool if he selects a team that wasn’t on the ‘list’. Like Portland or something.
I’ll feel bad for you Cavs fans tonight, but I’ll be laughing on the inside. You guys shouldn’t want that diock on your team anyways.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
I don’t care how much of a dick he was, he was still the best player on the planet*
*unless you’re a laker fan
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
HOW DARE YOU! I hate the Lakers and their fans. I kinda like my crappy Warriors.
Brownie's Year - July 9, 2010
Chris Broussard is somewhat backing off his 99% certain claim.
He says his gut says Cleveland but he is going with his sources. He is 80% sure LeBron is going to Miami.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
What does that even mean? Either you’re sure or you’re not.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
I am 80% sure that I am sick of LeFree Agency.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
+1
emily522 - July 8, 2010
What is 80% of the way between Cleveland and Miami — Jacksonville?
BREAKING NEWS . . . LEBRON IS SIGNING WITH THE JAGUARS!!!
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
Hahaha.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Greg Cote:
I’m telling you guys, it’s a ruse. He’s a Cavalier.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Chicago or NY
emily522 - July 8, 2010
LBJ Open Thread @ Fear The Sword:
http://www.fearthesword.com/2010/7/8/1559840/the-decision-a-lebron-james-open
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
ahhhhhh
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I sped home from work to get here in time.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I am going to purchase and drink a lot of beer soon. I hope it will be celebratory, but fear it will be a mourning ritual.
I am literally shaking.
rufio - July 8, 2010
He’s gone. I just know it.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Welcome to Cleveland fanhood?
rufio - July 8, 2010
Ha thank you.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I’m already not liking this show.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
Same. I want to puke.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I might.
rufio - July 8, 2010
If alcohol is involved, you’ll feel better after.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
It isn’t yet.
I am away from home, so I will have to go out and get something after this.
rufio - July 8, 2010
but if you’re under 21 and drinking, and then you drive…wait, wrong thread. sorry.
Dawg Nuts - July 8, 2010
rec
Villeslgr - July 8, 2010
This was well played.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
I thought we were supposed to know by 7:10…
rufio - July 8, 2010
Nope, it is going to be later, announced earlier.
As if this needed to drag on longer.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Really.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
When will it be over by?
rufio - July 8, 2010
10 est
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I am guessing 45 minutes in.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
I HATE ESPN
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I think a great question to ask LeBron would be if he could comment on the irony of basically promising to end our misery, yet he’s giving us the greatest heartbreak ever.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
whoa there, lets not forget art modell.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
True. I meant to type “one of the greatest heartbreaks”
emily522 - July 9, 2010
FUCK MY LIFE
emily522 - July 8, 2010
FUCK
rufio - July 8, 2010
Wow, Dwade is going to carry LBJ.
Such a douche,
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Yup. What an ass.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Do I want to do it on my own? Nope, let Chris and D do it. I’ll chill.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Miami.
Douche.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I HATE YOU GAHNKI FOR FALSE HOPE.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
GRRRR
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I was convinced, and hopeful myself.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Respect for holding on to what little hope this city has left in the tank.
rufio - July 8, 2010
There’s no place for optimism in Cleveland.
Chief WaDrew - July 9, 2010
“I never wanted to leave Cleveland.”
THEN WHY THE FUCK DID YOU?
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I FUCKING KNOW.
Oh, and this is a challenge for him? Bull fucking shit.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
And he didn’t even tell the Cavs? Bastard.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Any statement from the Cavs would have spoiled the show.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Dude, no matter what he says, he’ll be going Tu Pac if he comes back to Cleveland. Someone will do it. The whole city of Cleveland will never hate somebody so much more.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
What is Tanya Harding doing these days?
rufio - July 8, 2010
Getting fat.
Also, bruising the hell out of people before big shows. This may be in wait for his first Miami Championship. Too bad we can never bruise his damn ego.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
He never wanted to leave Cleveland but he left 30 million on the table to leave. Huh?
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Not trying to be an ass, but the reason is pretty clear.
TheRealSlimShady - July 8, 2010
Because he’s a douche? Yeah, you’re right. That is clear.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Gordon Gund sold high.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Poor Dan Gilbert.
He did every single thing that LeDouche Wanted. Spent money like a drunken frat boy all to please James.
Now he leaves the Cavs with a roster built around nothing all because they wanted to win now to keep LeBron. This was his mess, his doing, and he splits to play with his bestest friends in all the world. What an asshole.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Yup.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
& rec
emily522 - July 8, 2010
he is just the unlucky fat boy that finds the B&*ch that won’t even give him the time of day even though he has everything a girl could dream of.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Well, in other news. Dwade just won an automatic four rings. W.T.F.
I hope he duds out, D.A. second season starter style.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
No rings are guaranteed folks. Who else is going to be on the roster?? They have no room to sign anyone.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
There’s that mid-level exception thing.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Doesn’t matter, Wade will always be +1 on LeBron.
He basically wussed out of his shot at history to win a few championships.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Handing the reigns over to DWade and is going to coast. Disgusting.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Yup.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Championships are a big deal. He may not have won one at home.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
What the hell is that even supposed to mean? You don’t care about championships?
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
If he gets a championship, it won’t be anywhere close to as big of a deal as it could have been.
rufio - July 9, 2010
If he is to full of himself he wouldn’t have left because he would’ve wanted it to be just about him. I’m not saying thats the only reason stay..
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
I love how you’re a sucky Bronco fan, A ND and Yankee fan AND a Lebron apologist.
Is he your mentor?
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
I do not understand this.
rufio - July 10, 2010
He will always be second in the pecking order.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
he may not win one in miami either.
even if he does, I hope he enjoys being scottie pippen.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I expected to leave, but I’m still extremely pissed. It’s almost impossible not to be, regardless of where you live (except Miami.)
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Those Heat fans better stay the eff away from FTS.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
$100 says Cleveland will riot.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Do you even need to bet?
emily522 - July 8, 2010
The saddest part is how adversely business in downtown Cleveland will be effected. Literally millions were lost today.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Yup.
Thanks, LeBron.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I do not blame him for this- he owed it to no one to stay. But it is a terrible feeling, nonetheless.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
He didn’t have to drag Clevelands face through the mud during this process though.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
+1000000000000
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Right, he could have also had the decency to let the Cavs know.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Absolutely agree. The “Decision” TV spectacle was too much.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
The weeklong fakeout was just as bad.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
The weeklong fakeout was just as bad.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
+10000000
emily522 - July 8, 2010
He should’ve stayed. He should’ve.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
It would have been the right thing to do.
rufio - July 8, 2010
the cavs net worth just dropped 30 mil.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I heard the number was more in the 100 millions.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
quite possible…thats why Gilbert is so pissed.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I think Gilbert is pissed for that, and the same reason every other non-fronter runner in the nation is pissed.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
“It wouldn’t be sweeter somewhere else”
Ohhhh what a DICK
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I wish he would’ve gone to the Clippers. I would love to see his career die in Kobe’s shawdow, literally.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
That’s probably why he didn’t.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
People are actually surprised?
The Licensed Pessimist - July 8, 2010
Shocking, you aren’t?
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
of course not. Who didn’t see this from a mile away
The Licensed Pessimist - July 8, 2010
Just because I expect doesn’t mean I can’t be pissed.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Screw you.
rufio - July 8, 2010
I like you when you’ve been drinking.
not that I don’t other times as well.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
He’d be awesome in a bar.
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
Once again, your mom.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
To be perfectly honest, I too was not at all surprised. I’ve never been a LeBron apologist, since the very beginning. He is and always has been a complete and total egotistical douche, and a front runner too. I fully expected him to go to Miami.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Coming into today that is.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
I knew LeBron had an ego and a bit of a tool, but I didn’t think he was this bad honestly. I thought he was more respectful to Cleveland than that.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
bross09 - July 9, 2010
This is what I’m saying. Cleveland fans should have prepared themselves for this a long time ago. I’d never put any faith into a guy like lebron
The Licensed Pessimist - July 9, 2010
Some of us did, some of us didn’t.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
And I sympathize with my fellow fans who did somewhat, but this is what happens when you put your faith in a guy who doesn’t deserve it. Everyone knew of his personality years ago.
The Licensed Pessimist - July 9, 2010
That’s easy to say now. Up until this past month he seemed like a very loyal guy — he still lived outside Akron even though he could have lived anywhere in the country, he visitied his high school often and held his MVP ceremony there. Notice I said “seemed”, because none of us really know ANY athlete’s personality at all, so to say that “everyone knew of his personality years ago” is incorrect.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Before now I would have doubted many things about Lebron before I doubted his loyalty.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
right. now it seems obvious, but he did a pretty good job putting up a facade.
I’m still not sure he realizes the magnitude of what he just did.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
ha are you guys serious?
You can’t be serious…
This is the same guy who made a big deal about his teammate getting dunked on, to his face.
the same guy who wore a yankees hat to and indians game, and flaunted it around, in the face of cleveland fans.
The lack of tact and loyalty in Lebron’s personality could have been seen from miles away. Him living in cleveland and participating in some events wasn’t him putting on a facade, it was him doing his job. Silly fans
The Licensed Pessimist - July 9, 2010
plenty of star athletes yell at guys when they screw up, that is not abnormal.
lebron was a yankee fan, the indians were playing the yankees. if he were just “doing his job” he would have worn an indians hat.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Liking the Yankees is pretty douchey though.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
What’s even more douchey is the list of his favorite teams growing up:
Baseball: Yankees
Football: Cowboys
Basketball: Bulls
Notice something? They were all the dynasties of when he was growing up. He was the most stereotypical frontrunner imaginable.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
Almost everyone loved the Bulls from that era. It was Jordan.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Also if he really liked those teams growing up I would have some trouble calling a kid a frontrunning douche.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
As much as front-running fans annoy me, there are a lot of them in this country and they’re not all jerks or d-bags.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Opinion.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Come on now, stop playing stupid. he didn’t just wear the hat of his favorite team. If he was dedicated to the city of cleveland like you say he was, and understood the light that it saw him in, he wouldn’t intentionally do stuff that disrespected, showed disregard, or GO AGAINST the city that he so called loved. It’s just as easy to support a unassociated team in private or subtlely rather than parading it in front of the people who adore you, knowing it can rub them the wrong way.
Do you seriously think Joshua Cribbs would go to a Detroit-Cleveland game and wearing a Pistons hat, and wave it around in front of the cameras shamelessly? It’s justifications like these that make me think the delusional Cavs fans deserve to have the shit thrown back in their face
And you didn’t even address the fact that he completely humiliated Varejao. Yes, in crazytown he was a very loyal and dedicated man
The Licensed Pessimist - July 9, 2010
What did he do to humiliate Varejao?
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Hey he was an ass, but supposedly he’s always been a Yankees fan. Wearing a Yankees hat doesn’t make him disloyal. Also i’m not a fan and i was never that silly about Lebron.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
This is all very easy to say after the fact.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Well, I woulda traded the cavs for an NHL team even with Lebron…so well…when’s the NFL regular season start again? Thing is…I figured that someone who would conduct himself the way he did about all this would have no problem telling his team and city to f*ck off on national TV.
Sad, yet not entirely surprising, to add another kick in the b*lls to the list.
johnnyphoenix - July 8, 2010
Obviously don’t like seeing him go but he can basically GTFO if he doesn’t want to stay…and I’ve said that for months.
johnnyphoenix - July 8, 2010
are you an NHL fan or do you just hate basketball? I too would trade the cavs for an NHL team, but it’s because I like hockey better.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
I don’t blame you guys for being mad. I’d be pissed if Joe Thomas told us to ef off too.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
This is nowhere near the same thing.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
They’re both the best player in their respected sport though.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
Not even close.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
How dare you say that about Thomas!! ;)
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
Would JT be worse? I mean, JT is not AS known, nor does he bring in that much economy. BUT, he’s just as good for the Browns franchise as LBJ.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Nor was Cleveland his backyard growing up.
Chief WaDrew - July 9, 2010
No, there are only five starters on a basketball team; LeBron was a much larger portion of his franchise than even a quarterback can be.
danvail - July 9, 2010
true…but if anything in cleveland could come anywhere close to comparing, it is JT because after QB, LT may be the most important position and JT is a franchise LT and IMO the best in the game.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
LeBron meant more to the cavs than Peyton Manning could ever dream of meaning to the Colts. in basketball, one player is the difference between a 30 win team and a 60 win team.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Ok so…whats with the ‘HAHAHAHAHA’ then?
johnnyphoenix - July 8, 2010
I still think it’s funny. You guys seem pissed.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
Yeah, it’s very funny. We’re all laughing.
Thanks for stopping by.
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
It’s only basketball.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
No, this is physical too.
Cleveland’s economy will plummit.
Some people only have sports here dude. It’s literally the only thing that keeps some going.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Fair enough, bro.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
Redcacted.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Redacted*
rufio - July 8, 2010
Drunk*
rufio - July 8, 2010
Niiiiice.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Was thinking about what you said. Blame the "fans" for that. Rout for the logo before the player.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
this player leaving is devastating to the logo.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
He didn’t want to be there anyways. Time to move on and win without his sorry ass.
Brownie's Year - July 9, 2010
agreed, but as a fan of the cavs, it’s hard not to recognize that the team is worse without him. It’s a setback, but not one that we can’t come back from.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
You guys have a good coach and tons of money to work with. It’s possible.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
I think Byron Scott has been extremely underrated by some people in the national media. having him coaching makes this team leaps and bounds better than they would have been with Mike Brown.
There isn’t as much cap space as there could have been without the Antawn trade, but he does have a giant expiring contract.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Just bring in a couple more good guys to play with Shaq and you can contend.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
Shaq isn’t coming back to Cleveland, and anyways he’s not a guy you can build a team around any more. He’s just a role player now.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Screw you, too.
rufio - July 8, 2010
Please knock it off.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Of course, they had to start this title with “the.”
The Drive. The Fumble. The Decision. (After this, I refuse to call it this.)
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
My status:
congratulations, lebron. you’ll now be known in ohio as a quitter who had to join two all-stars to maybe get a ring. you’re now probably more hated than art modell. screw you, asshole.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
on facebook
emily522 - July 8, 2010
stealing it!
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
This kid (non-Cavs fan) said to blame the organization.
My response:
the cavs did everything lebron asked. lebron wanted shaq, we got shaq. lebron wanted antawn jamison, we got him, etc. mike brown did suck in the playoffs. i’ll give you that. gilbert’s a great owner regardless.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
He’ll NEVER get a ring, Em.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
I think he will get a ring.
I don’t think he will ever get a ring that is worth a shit.
If he wins in Miami, he will always be one ring behind Wade.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
Yup.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
OK, It would just be a Token Ring then. I wouldn’t care if he got one.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
In life, you have a lot of chances to win things.
Rarely do you have the chance to mean something.
LeBron missed his tonight.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Well said.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
Seriously, where can the Cavs go from here?
The days of Trajan Langdon have returned.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Back to square -50, that’s where.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Ricky Davis and Darius Miles 4 the win.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
Mo, JJ, and Delonte def. can’t do it without Lebron. we’re screwed.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
20 wins, here we come!
Lottery pick time!
emily522 - July 8, 2010
…We made the playoffs. =[
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
yep…trade away mo and Jamison for some young players (like kyle lowry, ariza, or iguodala), get young, and get a lottery pick.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Two teams need to agree to a trade.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
I know…not all these trades are realistic, but it is something the cavs at least need to attempt.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Cavs tickets should be cheap this year, at least.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Yep.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I’m going there in Dec. I want to go to a game.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Might as well with $20 front rows.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I’ll be booing my ass off in some very offensive anti-LeBron apparel the first time the Heat come to Cleveland.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Bobby Sura is on the market, no? Vitaly Potapenko?
Tank and get a lottery pick. try to find the next Durant.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Yeah, I hope Gilbert doesn’t waste all our money on some mediocre free agents just to be competative next year and make the playoffs as an 8 seed. Rebuild and hope for luck in the lottery next year.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
They should literally try to win less than 9 games.
rufio - July 9, 2010
that is the best way to rebuild in basketball, sadly.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I just don’t know where they go from here.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
If you don’t have “the guy”, you are looking for “the guy”.
rufio - July 9, 2010
I was really intrigued by the Johnny Flynn trade talk.
Too bad that sounds dead.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
Trade Mo and Jamison as soon as you can get value. Acquire lottery picks if possible. Trade Varejao and West if the price is right. Rebuild.
danvail - July 9, 2010
keep Varejao, and probably Mo. Varejao is still young, and could be a contributor in the future on a good team. keep Mo to at elast make an attempt at respectability. Jameson will be very valuable, with his large expiring contract, so ship him off as soon a a good offer comes along. agree on Delonte as well.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Yep. We still have some valuable players so we don’t need to trade them all. Obviously Jamison should be the first to go, and possible Mo but only if we can get good value. Mo has proven that he can be a good scorer and we’re going to need that for the next few years.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Yeah but if we ever want to be great again, we probably need to hit on high lottery picks. If we piece together a mediocre, 45 win team, we won’t have the opportunity to hit on those picks.
danvail - July 9, 2010
Right. I know we need to rebuild, but I don’t want to just give our guys away for nothing.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
So if you could get an Andre Iguodala and you HAD to give up Varejao, you wouldn’t pull the trigger? I probably would.
Personally, for the right offer, at this point anyone is expendable. I would rather not part with Delonte, Varejao, or Hickson, but if the right deal is there, then yes. I would still wait for a decent deal on Mo or Jamison and would not just trade them for scraps.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
again, two teams have to agree to a trade. the only way I would include Andy in a deal for AI is if it was a 1-for-1 deal, and the sixers would be crazy to do that.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I agree. I would include Andy in a deal for a guy like that if he was the piece that would put us over the top and we weren’t already giving up too much.
Like I said, the deal has to be right.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Iguodala is vastly overpaid. I don’t want him unless I’m getting someone else or draft picks.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I guess I somewhat agree he is somewhat overpayed…but his salary is somewhat similar to those of Jamison or Mo…personally at this point I would take Iguodala over either and Jamison I believe in fact makes more than iggy and mo makes a couple million less…and I think iggy is the better player out of those 3…so maybe he is overpayed, but so are Jamison and Mo, but even more so.
bross09 - July 10, 2010
I don’t think Mo is overpaid, and while Jamison is, his contract is expiring next year, which makes it valuable as a trade chip. Iguodala is better than either, but his contract makes him way too expensive, it simply wouldn’t be worth it.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
I thought Jamison’s contract expires after the 2011-2012 season…which is still 2 years away…unless he has some sort of opt out. he signed a 4 year deal in the summer of 2008…so why would the deal end in the summer of 2011 (in a year)?
I would pay 3 million dollars at least to get Iggy over Mo…and Iggy’s contract is only about 3 million dollars more.
considering guys making about 11-12 million in the NBA, Iggy would be pretty high on my list of guys I would take for that salary…
Detroit: Would take him over Rip, Ben gordon, and tayshawn
Milwaukee: Redd
Dallas: Butler, Dampier
Denver: K-Mart, Probably Nene…
The point is, yes he might be overpayed, but so are a lot of guys in the league who are not even as good IMO. Its not very likely to get a guy like brook Lopez who is way underpayed at 2.4 million. you have to draft guys like that to get them that low priced usually…
I am talking realistically with 2 guys on our team that are good, but have large contracts. In this scenario, he is one of the best players we can get using those contracts and one of the ones that most fills our needs…and he is still relatively young and is able to stay healthy.
bross09 - July 10, 2010
So because we already have two players that are overpaid, that’s a good reason to add another one?
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
I don’t agree at all that Iguodala is vastly overpayed. Look at guys making 11-13 million dollars…I would take Iguodala over just about all of them when rebuilding a team…maybe a few exceptions. I would definitely take Iggy over Jamison who is making more than him. Yes, he may be overpayed, but then again so are a 50 players making about as much as him, if not more, that aren’t even as good.
I have heard people say “well, Jamison’s deal gives us trade flexibility, while Iggy’s deal will handcuff us”. This simply isn’t true though. Both signed deals in the 2008 offseason. Jamison for 4 years, and Iguodala for 5 years with a Player option for the 6th…so Iguodala is only really under contract for one more season than Jamison. Is it that handuffing really to work out a way (though it doesn’t have to be directly player for player) where we pick up iggy and get rid of jamison’s contract? Not really…One more year of the player, but the player is younger and better and costs about a million less
I was trying to find out more Info on his contract and I found a website RealGM, They rank Iggy as the 16th best player in the league but 38th in contract. Also, to put in perspective, only about 3-4 players out of the 15 make less than him or only a bit more..Deron Williams, Durant, Rondo, and Josh Smith.
Any way you look at it, you are going to have to pay at least as much as his salary if you want to acquire a player of his caliber outside of the draft.
bross09 - July 12, 2010
I am surprised that you all are so attached to Varejao. Nobody I talk NBA with really believe that he is anything special at all
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Well, I’m not really sure about your definition of “special.” He’s one of the best defensive players in the NBA, and that’s certainly something worthwhile.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
In terms of all around individual defense, top 5 for sure!
Which is freaking impressive.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
2nd team all-defense. thats pretty special.
NBA people are all over Jaokim Noah, but Andy is basically the same player (with slightly better defense and slightly less scoring).
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I don’t care for either.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
then you under-value defense and rebounding, especially offensive rebounding.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand Noah, but he’s a good role player.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
And much better teeth.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
No one who talks NBA thinks about defense.
rufio - July 10, 2010
I’m curious what you and others think about this idea.
It is my opinion that offensive rebounds are better than defensive rebounds. I’m wondering if there’s some kind of stat that takes that into account, or if I have any basis for believing thats true. My idea would be instead of just counting rebounds, you count offensive rebounds and then subtract the offensive rebounds allowed to the opponent, rather than counting defensive rebounds.
of course, “offensive rebounds allowed” would be hard to determine, but i think in principal its a good idea.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
What’s the argument for offensive rebounds being more valuable?
gahnki - July 10, 2010
without having any stats to back this up, I would guess offensive rebounds result in more points than defensive rebounds. My reasoning is this: defensive rebounds lead to a “normal” possession. offensive rebounds have two outcomes, tip-ins, and “normal” possessions (where the ball is taken back out, usually past the 3-point line). assuming your chance of scoring on a normal possession is the same off of either type of rebound, offensive rebounds are more valuable because they have the added chance of a tip-in, which is guaranteed points.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
this is sort of similar to the difference between a walk and reaching on an error in baseball. reaching on an error is more valuable because you are guaranteed the same amount of bases as a walk, with the added chance of a two-base error.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Defensive rebounds also can take away points from the other team just as easy as an offensive rebound can lead to points for your team.
Also, an offensive rebound does not guarantee that you will score on your possession while a defensive rebound guarantees (barring you turn the ball over in the backcourt, but then that would be a new possession) that your opponent does not score and gives you the chance to score.
I’m going with defensive rebounds because.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
ignore that last because not sure why i put that there
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
Don’t leave us hanging like that! I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for your reason . . . .
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
i give in. . .it’s because Kobe’s better than LeBron.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
The same thing could be said the other way around though. An offensive rebound gives you an extra possession, one in which your opponent can not score. extra possessions are extremely valuable.
think of it this way: if two teams have equal offensive efficiency, and nobody gets any offensive rebounds, the game ends in a tie. if one team gets one offensive rebound, that team wins.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
what I mean by the first part is, an offensive rebound also “guarantees that your opponent does not score and gives you the chance to score.”
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Yep, didn’t read this before responding.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
Wouldn’t defensive rebounds result in less points for the other team, thus making them just as valuable as offensive rebounds?
gahnki - July 10, 2010
but in that respect offensive and defensive rebounds are the same. think of an offensive rebound as forcing the other team to skip their possession.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
But is it really skipping possession, or just a continuation of your previous possession?
gahnki - July 10, 2010
its not really “skipping” a possession, its mor like an extra possession. if one team gets more chances to score than another, that team has an advantage. I think my example of two teams with equal efficiency makes the point I’m trying to make here.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Yes, it gives teams who shoot less efficiently a better chance to win. But I thought there were already stats that incorporated rebounding into the efficiency numbers. I don’t know, I am not hugely into those stats (though I appreciate having them versus “normal” stats)
rufio - July 10, 2010
I’m thinking they would wind up being both equal. Or maybe it depends on who gets the ball first.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
A lack of a defensive rebound is necessarily an offensive rebound, is it not?
Can’t simply looking at the difference between team/opponent’s rebounds say the same thing?
And do Hollinger/Basketball numbers guys not already do this?
rufio - July 10, 2010
I don’t know, thats partly why I asked.
and no, because I’m only looking at one player, a lack of a defensive rebound is not necessarily an offensive rebound. maybe a guy has a knack for offensive rebounds but lets his teammates handle defensive rebounds. There are also “team rebounds,” where defensive rebounds aren’t credited to any one player.
I’m sure this type of thing would be taken care of in some all-encompassing efficiency stat, but I’m trying to separate rebounding in particular.
I should also point out I have done almost no research on this, I’m just thinking out loud (so to speak).
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Totally cool. I don’t claim to know everything about basketball stats, but I do know there is a good chunk of money being spent on them and a good amount of ivy league statisticians working on them.
It would surprise me if someone somewhere had not tried to account of extra possessions, but in saying that I am also recognizing that you are making an important point; if you get more possessions, you can be less efficient and win.
rufio - July 11, 2010
I agree. If we are going to trade away Varejao or West, I would hope it would be for a young developing player (like a Kyle Lowry, Yi, Spencer Hawes)
bross09 - July 9, 2010
yeah…and those are the only kinds of guys the heat can realistically get at this point.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
The Lottery should be filled with the Cavs for this. The NBA owes us that.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
And yet the NBA has no form of draft pick compensation.
danvail - July 9, 2010
If the Browns or Indians want to unveil negative team-related news, this is the time to do it.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
Can your police handle the riots?
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
I assume you mean Cleveland’s? I just don’t envision there being any actual riots.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
Yeah, I’m sure there wouldn’t be. You guys are class acts. I only said that because things are about to pop off in Oakland right now. The streets are starting fill as we speak over a rulling today.
Brownie's Year - July 8, 2010
I can’t believe this asshole just did an hourlong special to stick a knife in Cleveland. I mean, I ain’t a Cavs fan, but as a Browns/Indians fan I feel the pain. And it’s his life, his body, he has a right to play where he wants — it’s not the same as Modell and the Browns because he was moving something that didn’t belong to him — but there’s a classy way to do this, and then there’s this.
What. A. Dick.
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Jersey burning. Yessss!
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I’m going to go rip up that magazine feat. LeBron. FML.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Hey LeBron! At least the comparisons to Jordan will now stop huh? Jordan didn’t need A “DWADE” to get his rings… Choosen one my A$$!
Locnar - July 8, 2010
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
It’s 10:01 PM on Thursday July 8th, and Lebron James is a classless dick.
golanbatrac - July 8, 2010
I thought you were unplugging the internet?
Buckeye Brad - July 8, 2010
False start. It’ll be this weekend.
golanbatrac - July 8, 2010
I wish I could rec this 1,000 times.
Bernie19Kosar - July 8, 2010
We have our selves a brand new DBN meme.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Not for me.
Brownie's Year - July 9, 2010
No shit.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Byron Scott must feel worked right about now.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Poor guy.
We’ll see how good of a coach he is, I guess.
King James, Stuart Scott? Bullshit.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME ON THIS COMMERCIAL RIGHT NOW
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Buzz Bissinger co-authored LeBron’s biography, and he is ripping him apart on Twitter right now:
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Nice.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Yeah, and people still want to argue that they’d rather have LeBron over Kobe?
TheDriveStillHurts - July 8, 2010
Time to shut the hell up on that bro.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Yeah seriously.
rufio - July 9, 2010
yes, I would still rather have LeBron over Kobe. Kobe has no character either.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
That yours?
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
No, I just did a search on Twitter for “burning jersey” because so many tweets kept saying people were burning his jersey.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
Why isn’t this green?
emily522 - July 8, 2010
what is it? I just see a thumbs up sign.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
The pic isn’t there anymore for some reason but it was a burning jersey
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I can’t see it.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
This kid who keeps commenting on my status doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. It’s so irritating.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Remove him from your friends list then.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
He isn’t taunting me. He just doesn’t know what he’s talking about. At all.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Hate those people on FB.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
My mom won’t let me burn my LeBron stuff. Grrrrrr.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Ask her if the dog can shit on it.
Chris Pokorny - July 8, 2010
hahahahahha. I have two actually.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
If she thinks it’ll be worth something in like 10 years, she’s dilusional.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
No it’s because it’s fire. I explained it would be in the driveway…
Jesus I’m 18 years old. I can set something on fire without burning the house down lol.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
That’s not what the cops said when my friend did powdered sugar and a lighter…
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Haha.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
She’s letting me burn it tomorrow when my dad gets home tomorrow lol.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I’ll grill it.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I am planning a few photographs with mine. Maybe you can take some pictures of whatever you do and mail them to me. Could make a good collective work if I got a collection of every Cleveland fan’s LeBron jersey the day after this.
rufio - July 9, 2010
I don’t have a jersey just his MVP shirt and a magazine that’s one side Kobe the other LeBron. My friend never sent her pics to me, but she was using her friend’s phone. Maybe it doesn’t have pic mail.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I was thinking about taking some very soft-lit photographs of mine. Been away for the week, though. Home tomorrow, we’ll see what happens.
rufio - July 9, 2010
I’m game. Luckily (as LeBron was NEVER my favorite Cavalier), I don’t own a LeBron jersey. I do, however, own a somewhat cheap LeBron T-Shit (the basic name and number shirt) that I fully plan on either defacing for burning.
I’m still very proud (and always will be) to sport my authentic #11 Ilgauskas Cavs home jersey. Hell, I’ll even be proud to where my (rather pricey) Mo Williams Eastern Conference All-Star t-shirt.
I think this reflect how I felt about LeBron even when he was on the team. He was never one of my favorite Cavs, basically because he consistently disrespected Cleveland.
Cavs I’ve ALWAYS liked more than LeBron: Z, Mo, Delonte, Andy, Boobie.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Zydrunas has been my favorite cav since I started following the team in 1999.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I was always a tractor traylor fan.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
but he came from Michigan, you’re going to make suck #2 mad
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
LeBron was my favorite Cavs, I’ll admit. But I liked the others you listed a lot as well of course.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Just commented on your actual post. This is amazing. So glad it was pre – prepared.
This is Cribbs’s city now. No doubt. I’m so sick he was shadowed by the “Witness me choke” dick.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Is that real?
Villeslgr - July 8, 2010
I would say no, but I’m not entirely sure. I stumbled upon it elsewhere.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Looks photoshopped to me, but I think this should be made.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
probably not, but i hope it will be.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
My friend just drove past the Witness sign. There are a ton of cops by it, she says.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
They’re taking it down. She’s sending me pics on her phone.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
& There’s a huge mob
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Knew it.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I’ll have to upload the pics to FB, save them, and then upload them to here.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Cavs get 22 mil in cap space if they release West and renounce rights to LeTraitor (yup I’m doing what we were all annoyed by before)
emily522 - July 8, 2010
There is not use trying to be optimistic about the Cavs. It is over.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
It’ll be rough for a long time, I know.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
And- whew!- that letter really got me pumped. I know the likelihood of the Cavs winning the title before LeBenedict Arnold is…. 0%, but besides that, it kind of made my night a little bit better.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I’m glad he knows what was up. I 100% agree with that statement. If the commish doesn’t fine him, it’ll be pure win.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Dan Gilbert probably says, “Fine? I don’t give a flying fuck!”
Is it true that he didn’t inform the Cavs at all? Because that is just RUDE.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
If he fines him, it becomes even more ballsy.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Also thought this.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
what letter?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Letter from Gilbert
emily522 - July 9, 2010
saw it down below, pretty scathing, but mostly an emotional overreaction.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
No, it was an emotional reaction.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
he can’t guarantee the cavs get a chamionship before miami, that’s what i meant.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
LeBendidict arnold. Good one. I heard that the price of his fathead poster dropped to 17.41, which is also the year Benedict arnold was born…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
and we are still over the cap I believe…I have spent a lot of time recently on NBA trade machine on ESPN
bross09 - July 9, 2010
no I think we’re under. remember, before adding jamison we would have had enough for two superstars.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I am going by the trade machine, not anything else of my knowledge of it…I think they have forgotten to take Lebron and possibly Shaq and/or Z off b/c it says we are 44 million over the cap.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I’m pissed about this as much as anyone (I’m sure you all can tell), but you know what? CAVS FOREVER, LEBRON OR NO LEBRON!
emily522 - July 8, 2010
(well in this case, no lebron)
emily522 - July 8, 2010
And I like Chris Paul a lot now. He knew the right choice.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
And Dwade, but anything Miami annoys me now.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Same.
And Kevin Durant. I like him, too.
I need to get an anti-LeBron shirt asap.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I think a nice one would be like “Rise Above It” and then like “I’m a REAL Cavs fan” on the back. Because it’d be more about OUR loyalty, and less about LeBron’s doucheness.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Respecting the CP3 more and more.
rufio - July 9, 2010
What was Paul’s choice? He just signed with Lebron’s marketing agency?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
If you believe sources, Paul was trying to talk him into staying in Cleveland.
Link.
Aside from punching that dude in the nuts in college, I really like CP3.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
Yeah I saw that. I wonder if Paul feels Lebron snowed him too? He dropped his agency to go with LeBron and then Lebron bounced from Cleveland.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
I think I mentioned this somewhere else, but the cavs will have space next year corect? CP3 loves Byron Scott, correct?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Not sure, it just seemed like Paul was setting himself up to be with LeBron and then LeBron leaves.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
yeah i get that feeling too. I think he still might come to cleveland though, if the right moves were made.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Carmello and Paul?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
early in his career I would have said no to anthony, but I believe he’s matured a lot recently. I would definitely be down with this.
how sweet would it be if Melo won a championship before lebron?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Would we even be able to do that?
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I don’t know I was just thinking that might be a duo that could make the Cavs competitive again. Although, Denver has said they aren’t trading Melo so it would have to be next year to get them. How crazy would it be if those two and a top draft pick next year led the Cavs to the Eastern Finals against the Heat in two years?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Damn it would be
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Congrats LeBron, it’s your life and you get to decide how to live it. In your shoes I probably would have made the same decision. My guess is so would most other people.
OSUMoneyball - July 8, 2010
Nah, I’d take the money.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
True, I’m now worth a couple hundred million dollars, so I’m not sure if I could leave $30 Million on the table. But I’m sure it would be tough when picking whether to go to work in a foot of snow, or 71 and Sunny.
OSUMoneyball - July 8, 2010
*I’m not worth….
OSUMoneyball - July 8, 2010
Wrong.
You do know he has LOYALTY tattooed on him right/
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Totally wrong.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
Wrong.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Sorry you guys, this must be tough.
TheRealSlimShady - July 8, 2010
You must love that Kentuck is devoid of any and all pro sports.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
relevant
Villeslgr - July 8, 2010
No, I really wish we had a pro team. I would love to have even a terrible one. The closest thing we have is a AAA baseball team.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
go riverbats!
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
They’re just the Bats now and they suck this year.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
I haven’t paid attention since I moved from cinci ten years ago.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
It’s minor league ball though. You can’t really bitch too much about having guys like Chapman, Wood, Alonso, Frazier, Valaika, Sutton, and El Nino Destroyer in town (even if these guys haven’t put it all together yet).
I think a lot of them are treading water in anticipation of being traded by the deadline, the Reds being in first place and all.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
I’m not complaining I’m a Cubs fan and we suck horribly. I might actually try to go see Volquez pitch tonight if it doesn’t get rained out.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Chapman is a beast.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
But there major team is doing good.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Oh believe me i know that, all my friends who are fans remind me of that every chance they get.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Hey guys. I want a sig.
Should it be:
“We are all witnesses… to a traitor (or any negative noun directed towards LeBron)”
or
“I love Cleveland and any team that plays the Miami Heat”
I kinda like the first one lol
emily522 - July 8, 2010
How bout. “I can’t believe Cribbs’s was always second best in Cleveland.”
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
That’s good, too. You can take that if you want though.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Turns out, the King’s pillars were built on sand.
Where’s your crown King Nothing? (Metallica)
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
LeBron’s new nickname is LeBronedict Arnold. That’s actually kind of clever.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
I rather like that.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
Disturbed face on Pryor? nice.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
It’s Troy Smith, but yeah thanks.
Simmsinns - July 8, 2010
That is a great avatar.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Thanks, I whipped it up in photoshop after watching hours of ESPN talking heads say the same things over and over again.
I can honestly say that inspired the design.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
When someone finds a site selling anti-Lebron shirts, please tell me.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Dan Gilbert’s letter to the fans:
gahnki - July 8, 2010
BUUUUUUURN
emily522 - July 8, 2010
That was amazing.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Owned.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I’ve never read anything remotely like that from an owner.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
GM maybe
Villeslgr - July 8, 2010
“fuck you, go root for miami”?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
nicely played.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
or play, think Savage would make a cameo in a web commercial?
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
I approve. LeBron didn’t even tell the Cavs ahead of time! How rude.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
our owner has some cojones!
bross09 - July 9, 2010
He sure can make bold statements, but I don’t see him backing them up (the championship)
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
yeah that’s pretty ridiculous, but the sentiment is nice.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Agree. Promising a championship is foolish, but the rest of the letter shows he cares about winning, the team, the fans, etc.
If LeBron had paid me back like that (not returning calls/texts, not even telling the Cavs he was going before the special, etc.) after I had done all this stuff for him, I would’ve reacted the same way.
Ok, I’m done talking about LeBron after this thread is dead.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
I kind of remember posting a comment awhile back about pressure.
Villeslgr - July 8, 2010
Go Danny boy!
North Coast Flea - July 9, 2010
Awesome letter, but what’s with the sh!tty font?
TheDriveStillHurts - July 9, 2010
LEBRON’S ON GOOD MORNING AMERICA. oh fuck this shit.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
New sigs. Like?
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I was trying to think of an LBJ thing. Nice!
emily522 - July 8, 2010
LBJ. Leeching Baby Jerk?
Haha.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
From cleveland.com:
golanbatrac - July 8, 2010
Political correctness be damned on today.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Fix’d
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
I don’t get the PC part but today I don’t care it came from a cleveland.com contributor.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
I had myself convinced he wouldn’t do this on national television. No way would he publicly humiliate Cleveland. It’s just cold.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
He’s from Akron, no love for Ohio, just A – town.
Tattoos are permanent. Whether they are followed is TBD.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
The loyalty is to himself
North Coast Flea - July 9, 2010
I’m not sure where you live, but Akron is sort of like cleveland jr, they are very inter-connected.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Ha, I’m only 30 minutes out, I know. But I said Ohio in general, not Cleve.
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
I know, I just meant to point out that most people in akron will see this as him deserting his home town, even though he didn’t live in cleveland.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
And also. I don’t need Eric Wright and Abe Elam telling me on Twitter to respect Bron’s decision and then slam Gilbert for his message. They can F off. Give me Joe Haden and TJ Ward as starters.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
That’s how you win fans.
emily522 - July 8, 2010
The one can barley tie his shoes and the other is an alleged rapist. Sorry Brownies, but these people should not be listened to.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
I’m pretty sure that they’ve both been accused of rape.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Hey, nobody “be stopping Eric Wright from grinding and going hard.”
Whatever that means.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
It’s perverted my friend.
SpecialBrownie - July 8, 2010
Eric Wright can seriously go fuck himself.
golanbatrac - July 8, 2010
He’s been intentionally antagonizing the fans for a month, and hid behind it saying he was just retweeting others opinions. No respect for his fan base.
Roger Dorn - July 8, 2010
Exactly right.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Don’t forget he’s also an admitted Laker’s fan. I thought it was typical sports ribbing. Lebron walked around wearing a Yankees hat.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Not at all. Wright’s been trolling Cleveland sports fans for weeks.
I don’t hold what Abe Elam said against him, because it’s what he thinks, and unlike Wright, he’s man enough to come right out and say it.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
I know but he did it all through the playoffs as well. Obviously it’s not the smartest decision, but it’s a new world. Players aren’t always beholden to all the teams in their city. Obviously he could go about it a better way, but I doubt he really cares about what happens with the Cavs as he’s a Laker fan.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Scratch that. Elam’s a pussy too.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Windhorst:
“Trust me from as who’s dealt with Gilbert, I can only imagine what the first draft looked like. This was probably PR team’s compromise.”
emily522 - July 8, 2010
Awesome.
gahnki - July 8, 2010
Oh and I read on WFNY that LeBron didn’t inform Gilbert of his decision. Asshole.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
i’m guessing thats what inspired “The Letter”.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
from a windhorst column. leaving was bad enough for the team, handicapping them was worse.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
On a sidenote, I’m interested in seeing how Ohio State handles this. LeBron has noted his “love” for the university, although who really knows how deep that love is considering his multifaceted rooting interests. But LeBron’s camp had a hand in designing Ohio State’s basketball uniforms, he has been on College Gameday representing Ohio State, and has scored free sideline passes from the university beforehand.
Ohio State plays Miami at home this year and at Miami next year. I’m sure a sideline pass request will come in; it will be interesting to see how Ohio State handles it.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
As a non-OSU fan, I hope they ignore him. They owe nothing to him and have enough money to survive without him.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
As an OSU fan, I hope they tell him to fuck off.
rufio - July 9, 2010
^
North Coast Flea - July 9, 2010
I love shit faced Rufio.
I say we take up a collection and all pitch in to get Rufio wasted once a month and just let him run free.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
I’m all for this.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
I’m in.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I wasn’t that drunk, but I am in for this as well.
rufio - July 9, 2010
LeBron is and always has been a front-runner. If he was ever an OSU fan it was only because we were winning, then again, we’re always winning.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
No doubt.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
I’m really gonna hate it when Bross wakes up and says “woah! I had 500 commenst to answer to a day later!”
Ugh.
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
Haha. Yeah, this will be one of those scenarios where I see 50 new comments and they’re all from bross continuing discussions that we all stopped 2 days ago.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
He does have a tendency to pile on.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
i’m sure he’ll spend a considerable amount of time responding to me on the underage drinking thread.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
nice prediction…after I already responded to you…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
is it my fault that I don’t have consistent computer access and get curious when a thread goes to 500 comments?
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Yes.
Bernie19Kosar - July 9, 2010
maybe the curious part…yes, but the computer part…maybe…
bross09 - July 9, 2010
no, its your fault that you respond to all 500 of them.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
yes…I responded to every single comment made…I made sure I did not leave a comment out…
Just because you are annoyed with me for some reason, you don’t HAVE to comment on everything I say here saying, using extreme hyperbole’s, that I comment more than you may like. isn’t that sort of hypocritical in some sense?
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Extreme hyperbole? Is that different than regular hyperbole? And isn’t that redundant since hyperbole already extreme by definition?
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I believe Extreme hyperbole involves some sort of parasail.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Or parking a big truck in front of your house.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
A snowboard and a devil may care attitude?
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
A pickup truck, jet fuel, moonshine, and something on fire.
rufio - July 10, 2010
On a really random Browns note, I hope our next Cleveland sports hero (besides Cribbs) is Colt McCoy :)
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Me too. Dude is accurate. I can’t say the same for Quinn and DA after watching the film from last year.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Quinn was accurate in colleg FWIW.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Yeah….not really.
His problem has always been that at times he makes a great throw, an “NFL throw”. But then, he can’t get within 5 yards of his target. When coming out in the draft, he blamed it on his WRs not being at the landmarks they should have been at. But as the QB, you gotta throw to the guy even if he isn’t quite at the landmark.
I don’t have access to our coaches, so I don’t know if he is still doing this or if he just loses the strike zone more often now. I am going to try to get something together on this but my thesis keeps pulling me out of town and I have several posts before this one.
rufio - July 10, 2010
They should make “Witness” shirts that say “Witnessed”
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I have a witness shirt, I’m just thinking of how to deface it.
North Coast Flea - July 9, 2010
just add an ED to the end
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Change the copy to ‘THE NEW PIPPEN.’
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
LePippen.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
Even better. This needs to meme.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Nice.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Opps, didn’t see this. Oh well, great minds…
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Nice.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Pippen doesn’t deserve that. He wasn’t a douche.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
yeah he was, just not as big of one.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
I don’t think Pippen had the ego to do anything remotely similar to what LeBron pulled.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
no, i don’t either. like i said, i don’t think he was nearly as big of a douche. but the incident where he didn’t want to go back in the game because tony kukoc was gonna get the last shot is enough to at least get him the title of a lower level douche.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
“Witless”
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
Nice,
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
If the Buckeyes can live up to their potential this year, I can forget this.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Oh, when Pryor gets his first (of two) Heisman and the Bucks crush Alabama for the National Championship, we won’t remember this guys name.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
I don’t know man, I respect the hell out of Saban as an Xs and Os coach. Bama will be tough this year.
rufio - July 9, 2010
True. It’ll be tough as hell, but I think we can do it. Then again, I say that every single year.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Pryor is still bad. He had 1 good game. 1.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
You really don’t want to get into this right now. You really don’t.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
Seriously? You want to start THAT discussion? This thread isn’t long enough yet?
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Going for the record!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
Prepare to watch it grow.
I’m a Badger fan, but I will say this for Terrelle. He is in perhaps the most difficult spot in America: The Starting QB for the Ohio State Buckeyes. He has to move, because his offensive line is a collection of revolving doors. Now, could I do what he does? Not a chance. Pryor’s an amazing athlete. Whether or not he is a good or great QB remains to be seen.
OBrienSchofieldismyHero - July 9, 2010
Actually, I don’t think our line is that bad. Pretty good except LT (unless Mike Adams has finally decided he wants to be good),
rufio - July 10, 2010
Pryor is bad? Wow. Isn’t this the type of crap you always accuse — sometimes rightfully so — Buckeyes fans of doing towards players at Notre Dame?
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
i’m a PSU fan and hate OSU, and i won’t even say Pryor sucks. because it just isn’t true.
Dawg Nuts - July 9, 2010
Pryor wasn’t even close to Clausen last year if that’s what you’re saying.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
And yet his coach still has a job…
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Because OSU had a better O-line and a great defense. You know that.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
That has nothing to do with what we’re talking about.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Nope. Not even close to what I was saying.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Dude, stop. I could write a long essay comparing the situational merits of each player, explaining why your blanket assertion may be true but is still misguided, and generally dismissing your argument as a product of fanhood. But I’m not going to, because it’s not worth the time that it would require. So let’s leave off with that last point, and just accept it as true: your argument, and pulling it up in this thread, at this time, is nothing more than a product of annoying fanhood.
You are acting like the stereotypical Notre Dame fan right now; arrogant, annoying, and irrelevant. Just stop, please, for everyone’s sake.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
OK, I’m done but I still don’t see how it’s arrogant to not believe Pryor will win 2 heismans.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
It was just a tad bit of hyperbole.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Dude, it was an obvious exaggeration. You know that. Stop being annoying.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Exactly. If you asked me every year I’d tell you the same thing, National Championship.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Yeah, you could write a long essay — or you could just mention that Pryor and OSU won the Rose Bowl and ND did squat.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
I wasn’t arguing about OSU. I was only talking about Pryor
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Yeah, well, Pryor plays quarter-back. It’s kind of a big deal.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
So what your saying is…..
HES A WINNER
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Nah. It must just be the 10 guys around him are out of this world.
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
This blog is hypocritical.
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
I know, doesn’t it stink the Internet makes you come here?
But, seriously, on occasion at least, you aren’t completely off base.
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
You do realize that “this blog” is composed of many different people with many different opinions, right?
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Back when there was a big argument with steeler fans about whether or not ben is an elite QB, they all said he was because he is A WINNER !!!!!!, and everyone here said other QBs could have won the SB if they had the Steelers supporting cast.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
I know. What’s your point?
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
He’s obviously trying to prove himself wrong.
SpecialBrownie - July 11, 2010
his point is now people are saying the same thing about Kobe and pretending the two aren’t related.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
No, not the Kobe stuff, even though that is true. Its how people are saying Pryor is a good QB, which I’m not saying is false, but only using OSU’s record to back that statement up.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
And my point, as I said above, is that this blog is made up of many people with many different opinions. So when one person says something, it’s not necessarily representative of the whole blog. So don’t say “this blog is hypocritical” based on one comment.
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Groupthink does occur sometime.
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
So once someone makes a comment on here then it’s acceptable to assume that everyone else feels the same way? Even without anyone else supporting that comment?
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Did I say that?
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
Well, then, what was the point of your comment? Please explain, because I have no idea.
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
The point is your comment made it seem like that never occurs and it does.
How many have people have been dismissed with the he’s a winner meme? In this very thread some brought up Rotheliesberger and Kobe’s championships and dismissed their accomplishments because they were team accomplishments.
Whenever anyone posts anything about winning in regards to a single player there’s 20 posts responding about how winning does not make a player great.
Of course when it’s talking about an OSU player, there is silence.
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was staying out of that whole conversation because it was stupid and I didn’t want to get involved in a debate about OSU and ND with TRSS because I know that’s futile.
But, when one person makes a comment and TRSS says “this blog” is hypocritical because it goes against what others have argued elsewhere, then I’m going to point out that one person doesn’t speak for the whole group. That has nothing to do with groupthink. People here have expressed many different opinions on the subject, so I have no idea what your point is (other than just looking for something to argue about).
By the way, WR — the person who made the comment above — was actually arguing above with me and NTN that Kobe should earn more credit for being a “winner” so he really wasn’t being hypocritical. Once again, different people have different opinions.
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
I see this get thrown around a lot but find it tedious. When you have as many posters as we have here, there are going to be a fair number of topics where multiple people agree. The only time it becomes a problem is when the opposive viewpoint gets attacked without merit.
Roger Dorn - July 11, 2010
And that wasn’t occuring here at all, so I don’t understand the reasoning behind his comment.
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
I think this discussion can be ended if you can answer one question:
What makes Terrell Pryor winning the rose bowl different from Big Ben winning the superbowl?
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
Why are you asking me? I never said that.
Buckeye Brad - July 12, 2010
For the record, though, I think Jimmy Clausen had a much better year than Terelle Pryor last season. It’s not even close.
Buckeye Brad - July 12, 2010
There is a lot of room between “not as good of a year as Clausen” and “bad”.
rufio - July 12, 2010
Yup. Clausen was very good last year, so there is nothing wrong with not being as good as him.
Buckeye Brad - July 12, 2010
Well that clears it up a little bit now. I guess I just misunderstood something.
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
thats what this argument seems to be about though. people (not necessarily you) seem to be giving Pryor credit for his team winning games, but these same people discount Ben as important to his team winning games.
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
As far as I can tell, that was just one person.
But, as I said above, I wasn’t getting involved in that discussion. Once again, I was merely saying that he shouldn’t call the whole blog hypcritical because one person made a comment which might have contradicted opinions given by others here. “This blog” does not have a single voice on all issues. That’s all I was saying, and I don’t see what the problem is with that.
Buckeye Brad - July 12, 2010
You will be assimilated
Kimble_79 - July 12, 2010
Ben has been important to his team winning games recently. The steelers have all but abandon the running game in favor of a spread passing game.
He was not as important during the first SB win or that season in general. The second SB win, he made some huge plays including the game winner, but I think they still ran as much as they thought they could versus Arizona’s passing attack. As we have seen him grow, we have seen him take on more of the volume of the steelers offense and take more attention away from other players.
If there is one player around which the opposing team must plan and he is leading his team to victory, this is much more impressive than someone who is along for the ride. It makes more sense to give Peyton credit for the Colts’ run deep into the playoffs than it does to give Sanchez credit for the Jets’ run—and this would remain the case no matter the statistics.
I don’t see how I am contradicting myself, nor why you can’t just refer to “people” directly.
rufio - July 12, 2010
I didn’t want to refer to people directly because more than one person has been involved in this. you weren’t the only person making this assertion and i couldn’t remember who said what without going back and reading the whole thing.
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
The arguments are only indistinguishable to those who do not understand the separate circumstances. As it is, TRSS just wanted a reaction from people. He wasn’t and isn’t looking for a debate; he just wants to get others riled up. I wish I had never even responded to him in the first place.
gahnki - July 12, 2010
The Rose Bowl isn’t the
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
sorry I meant to press cancel and not delete. Please disregard.
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
I meant to press cancel and not
deletePost. Please disregard.I’m struggling today
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
Also, you just contradicted yourself. This is your comment which started the whole conversation:
Now you say that you agree that Pryor is a good QB? Huh?
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
I’ll stop now. I screwed myself on that.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
The two aren’t related regardless of who you believe is better, Kobe’s basketball talent is light years beyond Ben’s football talent. That’s not even a valid comparison.
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
I really wasn’t meaning to interject myself into all that. Keep in mind, of course, that this is a Browns boards and any argument for the Steelers is going to get a heck of a lot less traction around here.
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
The difference is that Ben was Derek Fisher on the Lakers while Pryor was Kevin Durant on OKC.
rufio - July 12, 2010
Sorry but I can’t agree with that. Posey seemed like your best player on offense, and no one else except 1 offensive lineman stood out from each other. If you include the whole team though, Heyward seemed to be the best.
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
Impact on the game. Derek Fisher is very good at what he does, he just doesn’t have that large of a role.
And I wasn’t really trying to reference the supporting cast on those NBA teams, more the relative successes of their seasons. OSU did pretty well especially considering expectations, pittsburgh won it all.
Durant has stars/very good players around him too, if you really want to stretch this metaphor in a place where it doesn’t fit.
Just trying to reference role on team and team success.
rufio - July 12, 2010
In a way, yes.
He has a huge impact on OSU’s winning/losing games. And he’s played well enough to lead his team to a pretty good record.
Coaches gameplan around him, and he still finds a way to get it done.
Just as winning isn’t the ultimate factor in how good a player is doesn’t mean it is entirely worthless if you look at the context(s) in which the games are won.
rufio - July 10, 2010
Well I think there are many QBs last year that could have led OSU to a record like that. Would you care for me to list them?
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
QBs for which you know defensive coordinators would have planned exactly the same way using exactly the same %s of their resources as they did against Pryor: 0.
rufio - July 10, 2010
I might add; what he is doing is working. While there are better NFL QB prospects in the NCAA right now, Pryor is playing well enough to get the job done. He is smart enough to know when to adjust his game, and plays the percentages well most of the time.
It is hard to blame a running back for averaging 3 ypc when your team is up by 20 with 5:00 left in the game. Most of the time, Pryor knows his defense and running game (including himself) will do the job. He knows he doesn’t have to try to complete risky passes to win. He played a couple of poor games last year, not taking those chances making harder throws or at least not completing those throws when he needed to. But most of the time, he is playing risk/reward very well and it is kinda hard to punish him for playing it close to the vest.
rufio - July 10, 2010
Yea, but that is a simple job and plenty of other QBs could do that. Would you like a list?
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
Simple job?
You lack of perspective prevents anyone from seriously debating you on this.
gahnki - July 11, 2010
rufio again rejects the bait!
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
It really isn’t a simple job. There are not many QBs in the NCAA that opposing DCs are worried about as much as a dual threat.
Against a guy like Luck or Mallet (both of whom I think are extremely good players at this point) you don’t have to worry about 4.3 speed. If you are smart, you can play well against the run and against the pass. There is no defense for a guy who makes you read pass and then can take off and score on any given play as a running threat.
In other words: there is a difference between being Trent Dilfer and riding the coattails of the rest of your team to wins and being Peyton Manning and going for pedestrian numbers in a win.
rufio - July 11, 2010
Are you trying to say Manning has pedestrian numbers?
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
No, he isn’t. He’s creating a situation to help you understand his point. Unfortunately, you having a lot of trouble with this.
gahnki - July 11, 2010
Exactly.
“Carrying the load” is harder than going along for the ride.
rufio - July 12, 2010
I don’t see how you can consider him to carry the load. He’s got an above average running game and doesn’t throw often enough to be considered ‘carrying the load’ to me, unless we just have different ideas of what that means.
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
Pryor adds significantly to that running game.
He touches the ball on every play, and defenses know he is a threat every time he touches the ball.
If you run the outside zone with a naked bootleg fake and it is Drew Bledsoe running that bootleg fake, you ignore him. If it is Pryor, there is at least one defender assigned to follow him out.
If you are smart and playing OSU, you are looking to make Pryor uncomfortable first, then to probably roll some QQH/double coverage to Posey.
Defensive attention is not recognizable by any stat. You can keep the defense’s attention and rack up very low rushing and passing attempt totals.
rufio - July 12, 2010
That doesn’t mean they would’ve been different.
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
It would have been different I mean (refering to the record)
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
It means that you cannot know who would have led OSU to the same number of wins.
There are other QBs out there who probably could have done as good of a job as Pryor, but there is so much contingency in football that it is preposterous to say that you have a list of QBs who could have led OSU to the same/a better record.
rufio - July 11, 2010
OK, I agree. Pryor is definetly the best QB for OSU and no other could do his job.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
Why do you even start arguments like this? gahnki and I told you not to even get in to this after you made your first comment, but you couldn’t let it go. Then when people try to give you intelligent comments, all you do is come back with this bullcrap. You’re obviously incapable of having a reasonable discussion, so why even bother?
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
So basically what you are saying is that you don’t understand my argument, you are unwilling to listen to what I am saying, and you’ve taken to being sarcastic in an unfunny way. That’s your prerogative.
rufio - July 12, 2010
Rec
rufio - July 10, 2010
This LeBron affair makes me want to ground-stomp that insufferable Miami fanbase even more.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
+1
emily522 - July 9, 2010
This.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
This makes me want to puke.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Damn Gilbert called Lebron a quitter in the Playoffs.
“He quit,” Gilbert said. “Not just in Game 5, but in Games 2, 4 and 6. Watch the tape. The Boston series was unlike anything in the history of sports for a superstar.”
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Then why didn’t he mention that earlier?
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
I would imagine he would rather have Lebron the quitter than Lebron the Heat.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Dear Lord. Thanks for showing the patience — and restraint.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
really? you really can’t figure out why he didn’t say anything earlier?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Sorry emily that wasn’t meant to be a reply to you.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Browns signed WR Bobby Engram.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Haha. Trying to keep us on subject again, huh?
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Screw ESPN. They just ran through the laundry list of heartbreaks.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
OH MY GOD. Mark Jackson (something like that?) just said he wanted his kids to watch this in order to see how self-sacrificing these guys are. What bullshit.
Oh and according to him, we should be all be hanging up LeBron’s jersey and ashamed that we burned it.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I know. What a jerk.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Most of the time athletes are going to stick up for other athletes especially if they are in the media. I want to hear Van Gundy’s take.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
I heard him at like 1 AM. He said LeBron would regret not talking to Cleveland management before. I don’t think he liked his choice.
Wait are we talking about Jeff or Stan? Because I’m talking about Jeff.
But Stan should say,
“Don’t worry, Cleveland. The Magic will kick his ass.”
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I was talking about Jeff.
Stan has already made his feelings about Lebron known.
"It takes 15 seconds to say, ‘I’ve decided to stay in Cleveland,’ but we’ve got another 59 minutes and 45 seconds to, what? Promote LeBron James? As if we don’t do that enough."
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
yep…according to all lebron’s buddies, dan gilbert is going to hell.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Yeah, but don’t take too much life advice from a bunch of guys that all have about an eighth grade education.
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
unless you’re making the biggest decision of your life, then apparently they give good advice.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
You lost me.
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
lebron let all his buddies give him advice on where to go and how to announce it, and we know how that worked out for his image.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Ah, okay. Right.
Western Reserve - July 10, 2010
God love Deadspin. I needed a good laugh.
So much more at the NSFW Link.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Absolutely dead on strait from the title.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
+1
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Mo Williams, via twitter.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
Not sure what to say about that. Perhaps, LeBron was not nearly as close to his actual teammates as he led on. His “real” friends where the All-Stars, because as we know he is a front-runner. Would he be friends with Bosh, Wade, or Paul if they had identical personalities but only above average NBA players. Hell no.
He seriously reminds me of one of those bitchy cheerleader high school girls that simply tries to surround themselves with only the most popular kids.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
I will be very interested to see how people like Varejao respond to this. I’m especially interested to see how Z responds. Z gave up a large portion of his career to this city when he could have gone elsewhere.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Z isn’t near the player LeBron was.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Thank you Captain Obvious!
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Haha. No worries, Brad, you won’t get any arguments here from me.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
you totally missed the point. Zydrunas was an all-star caliber center, and he could have gone somewhere else, but he showed the cavs loyalty then, and again this year when he chose to come back. He showed a loyalty lebron never did, and he isn’t even from this country, let alone this city. For that, I will always remember Big Z fondly.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I was at Z’s first game back after the trade. The love for Z in the arena was awesome.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Poor Mo and other teammates :(
emily522 - July 9, 2010
apparently Mo tweeted that it felt like his heart was ripped out.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Awwwww :(
emily522 - July 9, 2010
It’s disgusting that his own former teammates had to sit on a couch and watch the damn show. WTF?
SpecialBrownie - July 9, 2010
I know.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Anyone know when Jeremy Greene was Director of Pro Personnel for the Browns?
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Green, rather.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
It’s surprising as hell, even in the midst of LeTreachery, that the PD has overlooked this one.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Really. I mean, who doesn’t love a nice feel-good child porn possession story going into the weekend?
Greene was apparently replaced by Bill Rees in Feb 2005, but it took some digging to find that.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
Er, Green, rather.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
I got nowhere digging. Thanks for the info!
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
I should say that I’m a bit disappointed that he wasn’t a Savage hire, though.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
Ha.
No problem. I got annoyed when I couldn’t find out in the first 3 minutes, and after that it was a contest of wills. Someday I’ll learn not to give in to that particular impulse, but apparently today is not that day….
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
Don’t forget the narcotics charge.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
Bonus drug usage, right on. Good times!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
There’s a lot going on today.
-Tennessee Volunteer football program goes to prison.
-Iowa DE Broderick Binns arrested for OVI.
- LePippen ascends to his position as Robin.
- World Cup Finals Previews
-Yankees trade for Cliff Lee, then Mariners say “Screw You” at last minute.
-Rangers just trade for Cliff Lee.
- Matt Miller joins LeBron in Miami.
- Seantrel Henderson commits to Miami.
I bet this is the most sports action July 9th has ever seen.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
I hadn’t heard about the Rangers’ deal. Smoak is a top tier prospect.
golanbatrac - July 9, 2010
I’m a little relieved the yankees didn’t trade for Lee. We were gonna give up our best prospect plus some other good ones.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
Don’t worry, they’ve got plenty of money to buy free agents when they need a player. They don’t need prospects.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
I always liked the rangers, then again, who doesn’t like a team of sluggers who are constantly the underdog?
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I think maybe under Butch Davis…though Butch was running the show.
bross09 - July 9, 2010
Joe Posnanski on LeBron’s decision from the view of a native Clevelander. As always, he’s right on the mark. Much like him, I never thought LeBron would leave Cleveland this way even though the years of Cleveland sports fandom should have prepared me for this.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
good article. Very measured
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Good article.
Made this quote from Ken Berger my fb status:
emily522 - July 9, 2010
danvail - July 9, 2010
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hNln7fN4j1VOArarGYR1elvuJU_w
sleepy042 - July 9, 2010
Can’t believe I will be rooting potentially for the Lakers or Celtics next year.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
I thought the same thing last night.
Obviously I am still rooting for the Cavs, but know they really don’t have a huge chance. I am ambivalent about OKC because they Ravens’ed Seattle, but I really like their team. They would probably be my temporary adopted team of choice if they weren’t the zombie Sonics. I don’t really have ties to any other pro teams, and I rooted for Jordan growing up with no pro teams in the area.
That pretty much leaves me rooting for Miami to lose.
rufio - July 9, 2010
this is how I feel. I would rather watch Kobe get another championship, and after typing that I feel like I should wash my hands.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
A question: Oklahoma City has a team?
I thought they were the Oklahoma City Kevin Durant…
OBrienSchofieldismyHero - July 9, 2010
They have a nice, young team with no center. If they find a good one they could be very very good.
rufio - July 10, 2010
I know.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Oh damn, I have to respect Jaokim Noah a little more now:
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Hes the guy you hate if he isn’t on your team and you love if he is.
rufio - July 9, 2010
Like Andy
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I still dislike the guy, just slightly less.
and to go along with emily, I’m sure I would hate Varejao if he was on any other team.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I wonder what Noah would have said if lebron, i’m not capitalizing the damn b anymore, had chosen Chicago.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
Great article on WFNY
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Some asshole on fb wrote “hahaha cleveland fans” on his status. I told him, “It’s okay. LeBron can take his narcissism and self-entitlement somewhere else.”
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I feel like we still lose that one.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Oh, I know what he’s going to say. Something like “hahaha yeah to miami to win championships hahahahahahaha.” I couldn’t really care less about LeBron now. He’s not a Cav anymore and we’re moving on. Sure, he may win some championships. On Wade’s team in Wade’s city. Good for him.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
What a shame.
Grain it’s Yahoo.
Villeslgr - July 9, 2010
good article, but i disagree about gilbert. maybe he shouldn’t have caved so easily to james all the time, but he was at least doing what he thought was best for the team.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
I’ll be honest. Dan Gilbert sounds like an out of his mind whiny bitch.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
That’s how must of us feel about Notre Dame fans who think they are a relevant college football program.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Wow. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Dorn, you can never resist. Haha.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
It’s a weakness, but also contractually obligated in my diploma.
Roger Dorn - July 9, 2010
Understandable.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Define relevant
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
The opposite of a Broncos fan posting on a Browns forum?
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 9, 2010
I would not call myself a Broncos fan.
TheRealSlimShady - July 9, 2010
ok, the opposite of a brady quinn fan posting on a forum of a team for whom brady quinn does not play.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Your honesty is well received. Your commentary, however, is another story.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
Um...how would you react if you were the Owner of a sports franchise that had its best player leave for another team that may or may not be a powerhosue...
Let alone one that can’t play defense?
OBrienSchofieldismyHero - July 9, 2010
Around the Horn is blasting Gilbert. I don’t really give a crap what they say.
TV…. off.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
He said what we all are thinking.
Western Reserve - July 9, 2010
I kinda agree though, he was saying it to save himself.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
I’m not entirely sure I agree. I think it was more about “raw emotion” after feeling betrayed rather than being all about his personal net worth. I’m dead serious too.
Sure, I’m willing to admit, I don’t know Gilbert personally, and I could completely and entirely wrong, but I think that’s the case.
He’s done a lot for this organization, it’s very possible that he’s even done even more to appease LeBitch/f4g/a$sh0le.
Personally, I think that is much more of an influence behind this whole letter and further reaction, rather than just about raw “net worth.”
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
he’s a billionaire, he doesn’t care about the dip in the cavs worth, especially since he’s got plenty of time to get it back up. I’m sure his other businesses more than make up for it.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Hahaha omg. On facebook this Michigan fan wrote, “yes cleveland sucks at everything once again”. Yes, because Detroit is doing so well right now. I’m not even going to comment. I’m too busy laughing.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Just post this in response.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
I wish I could.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Though I could just send the URL…. nah, not worth my time!
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Some other guy wrote “at least it’s not Detroit” haha
emily522 - July 9, 2010
this was pretty good, my personal favorite being “Obviously none of us were privy to the negotiations between LeBron and the Cavs, but it seems like the easiest way to not leave Cleveland is to not leave Cleveland.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/11-strange-things-LeBron-James-said-during-The-;ylt=Amd4DZXppHwN5lMTXVXpla8vLYF?urn=nba,254895
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Delonte:
LeBron:
Delonte:
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
So that Delonte/LeBron’s mom thing was true?
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I’m not sure, but I most certainly hope so.
This is actually a reference to an old Celebrity Jeopardy joke, from SNL.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
No, it wasn’t. But that’s funny. You’re probably too young to remember Celebrity Jeopardy with Sean Connery on SNL. If you want some good laughs you should look them up on YouTube.
Buckeye Brad - July 9, 2010
Always laughed so hard that I cried from that SNL sketch
Big Daddy Hickman - July 9, 2010
There’s about a millions reasons to think it’s probably not true, but you know what… I hope it was. Anything that pisses him off, makes me a little happier.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Ew
emily522 - July 9, 2010
I hope that the city throws even more support to the Browns this season now. The Browns are the closest thing to a winning team that we have.
I would like to see someone from the Browns, maybe Cribbs or even Mangini, come out and say something that will endear some of the lost Cavs fans to the Browns.
Im sure there are alot of Cavs fans out there that weren’t Browns fans before and I really think this could be a big opportunity for the team.
Big Daddy Hickman - July 9, 2010
Windhorst tweet^
emily522 - July 9, 2010
emily522 - July 9, 2010
This is the right move.
gahnki - July 9, 2010
Agreed.
I love how ESPN is introducing these guys like we freakin’ don’t know who they are. LeBron referring to himself in the 3rd person was always annoying, but now I’m like shut up lol.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
LeBron: “After hearing my former owner’s comments, I know I made the right decision.”
Shut the hell up.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Fuuuuuuck him.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
Yup. But you know what? He’s officially a member of the Heat, just signed the contract. No need to talk about him anymore IMO. I’m just interested to see who the Cavs can get.
emily522 - July 9, 2010
Though I will get a “quitness” shirt from fresh brewed tees once they get smalls back again.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
I cannot wait to be offensive as I possibly can be at the first Miami @ Cleveland game. I can “personally guarantee” I’ll be there. (I’ve been saying this for some time now, as person who recognized this for some time, I saw this coming since 2006) I’ve kinda been almost planning this. Kinda.
We all had hope. But anyway, yeah. I’ll be at THAT game.
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
I’d like to be at that game to just witness the event.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
We haven’t used this for awhile.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
I’d like to be there to try to fight LeBron. And then possibly create some sort of ridiculous lawsuit due to my injuries (which he would then buy me out of).
rufio - July 10, 2010
It worked well for the drunk dudes that hit Artest. But they were also perma banned from the Palace.
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
I’m an idiot. They don’t have womens’ small. They start at medium. /facepalm
emily522 - July 11, 2010
Facepalm.
SpecialBrownie - July 11, 2010
Interesting that it took him until then to believe he made the right decision.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
Are those 4 picks all for next year’s draft? Or could they go toward 2012 too?
emily522 - July 9, 2010
my guess would be one first and one second for each of the next two years, but i don’t really know.
notthatnoise - July 9, 2010
Stepien rule prevents a team from trading its first round pick in consecutive years. The Heat will have a staggered series of lost first round picks over the next eight years (assuming Bosh + LeBron cost two first round picks, at least)
gahnki - July 10, 2010
They may not be for many years if the Chris Bosh deal takes precedence.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
Windhorst said 2013 ande 2015 for the 1st round picks. Miami is trading Toronto their 2011 1st rounder for Bosh, and as gahnki said they can’t trade 1st round picks in consecutive years. The 2nd round picks will be in 2011 and 2012. The Cavs are also getting $16 million in trade exception, which they can use in a trade for the next year. Those moves will definately help the Cavs rebuild over the next few years and, as much as I hate helping LeBron get more money, I’m glad they were able to do it.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Getting LeBron more money actually restricts the Heat’s cap space more, so at least that’s a positive.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
2015? Oh boy.
But hey, two first round picks and two second’s pretty good! Especially when the two second are in the next two drafts.
(See, I can be positive about this!)
emily522 - July 10, 2010
Is it possible that the Cavs could trade those picks for earlier picks from another team?
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
I don’t see why they couldn’t.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
I wasn’t sure about the rules, how the picks were divided whether the Cavs actually possessed them now or in the year that they occurred.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
Oh, no, they own them now so they can trade them whenever they want to. The Cavs just aquired a 2nd round pick in 2012 from Miami that they got from OKC.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
I think they own them now, but they probably have to declare what years between ’13 and ’17 they are going to take the first rounders from.
bross09 - July 12, 2010
It would have to be an opportunistic trade, relying on a team’s unwillingness to pay for the first round draft picks. Because of the Heat’s new-found strength, those picks are going to be in the back-end of the first round. The value they represent would probably be less to many teams than their original picks.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
I think the idea was you could package two or more of them for a single, better pick.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Yeah that’s what I was thinking.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
Or throw them in with a player.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
It would have to be this. There’s a huge decrease in value from lottery picks to back-end picks. Two back-end picks does not equal one lottery pick.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
this is true, the difference between a late first and early first is bigger in the NBA than in any other sport.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Those details were a little off. Here is the final list of what the Cavs get in the trade.
• Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
• 2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
• Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
• Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
• A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.
I have no idea why the Cavs would want to swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012 since they’ll most likely be picking lower than us.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
I think this is for the fans… like it makes it seem that we’ll be better than them down the road, even with Bron.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
This is much more valuable than a miami pick, this makes me happy.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Yup.
Simmsinns - July 9, 2010
gahnki - July 10, 2010
YEEEEEES!
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
ZING!
emily522 - July 10, 2010
gahnki - July 10, 2010
I like the “Cleveland has always been a football town. Some douche just got us confused for awhile.” one
emily522 - July 10, 2010
There have been some doozies over at that website. The angry t-shirt market is making a killing right now.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
I want the quittness one.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
Just bought it =]
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
Nice! I checked this morning and there was nothing up there yet. Then I checked and… all out of my size!
emily522 - July 10, 2010
I ended up calling the guy for a refund. I woke up and was like “I can put that 20 to something a lot better” and he said he’s putting Steeler hate stuff up soon. His brother went to my Hometown College. =] I may buy a shirt down the road but I need that money =P
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
I also like the “Cleveland at least we’re not Detroit” shirt.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
Wow. ESPN’s comparing Gilbert to Al Davis.
/rolls eyes
Why do I subject myself to this nonsense? Well usually it’s to find the Tribe highlights.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
MLB. com bypass the BS.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
If the powers that be feel this crosses the line, feel free to delete the following:
New shirt design I whipped up after being “inspired” by photo’s of the Three Am-EGO rally:
Call me classless, I don’t care right now, I will be wearing this at the very first Miami @ Cleveland game.
(“Yes. We. Did.” reference: HERE)
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
I will have to remove the Cavs logo do to copy right.
By the way, if you like, free entirely free to share it with or without credit.
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
Flag
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
Really?
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
I could be wrong, but wasn’t she 15 when she got pregnant? She’s hiding who the real father is for some reason. Calling her a whore is inappropriate. She could have been raped or molested for all we know.
Just call her a Bitch.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
She’s a whore because she supposedly had sex with West. Wow,
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
Jerry West?
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
delonte
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Adam.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
lol Jerry West was a joke.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
I figured, i was hoping we would all continue naming Wests
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
so because she was 15 when she got pregnant, we can’t call her a whore because you think she was probably raped or molested but there is absolutely no evidence to support it?
bross09 - July 10, 2010
You have evidence to support that she’s a whore?
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
it is a joke about the whole delonte thing…You are saying however that we shouldn’t call someone a whore (even jokingly but the joke just keeps going over your head I guess) because of the minimal chance and nonexistant proof that they were raped?
bross09 - July 10, 2010
Dammit Bross stop ruining all the jokes. Your expositions make me feel like i’m sitting in a lecture instead of reading mildly offensive sometimes topical jokes about whatever passes through the DBN universe.
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
So do you create your own shirt on that site?
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
n/m i see below it’s your site
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
I’m not sure what you are talking about…?
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
You created the shirt right?
Villeslgr - July 10, 2010
Yeah, I made the design in photoshop, then laid it over a blank shirt I found on google images.
Simmsinns - July 10, 2010
Leave the mothers out of this! Anyway, I’m sure
WesLeBron here is just upset about being number twoin the ratings again.on his new team.TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
Really, no comment? I was proud of that.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
i liked it and recced it.
Dawg Nuts - July 12, 2010
I thought it was pretty funny
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
LOUD NOISES!!!
Kimble_79 - July 12, 2010
This is why I was laughing at your madness the other day. Yes, I’ve been trying to be nice with some comments, but c’mon. This guy said what I was thinking the whole time.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
you know who freaking cares? basketball fans. sorry you aren’t a basketball fan. Would you care if the browns moved to Toronto? how would you feel if someone laughed when you were mad about it, and posted a video asking who freaking cares? you know who else cares? anyone who owned or worked at a restaurant or hotel downtown.
Sorry you are callous, but just because you don’t care doesn’t mean this didn’t mean a lot to a lot of people.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Call me when the economy gets worse than California.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
The economy in Cleveland is already bad and getting worse every year. I don’t see how it being better or worse than California is relevant to anything.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
The point is that it was bad before, during, and will continue. Don’t blame a ball player.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
OK, but losing him certainly made it worse. You can’t argue that. Nobody is blaming LeBron for all of Cleveland’s problems.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
we aren’t blaming him for a bad economy, just recognizing the fact that him leaving makes it worse.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
You’re such a prick.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
Truth hurts.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
this had nothing to do with truth. just because a lot of people don’t care, it doesn’t mean this wasn’t important to a lot of people.
It is not important to me whether a stranger’s mother dies or not, but I still wouldn’t laugh at him for being upset.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
A mother dying and LeBron telling you to ef off are two completely different things.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
both are equally unimportant.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Ummm no. Lebron is a fag. And it’s stupid to worship him. He doesn’t like you. Wake up.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
No one likes you. Go away.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
Fuck you
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
seriously, how can you think this is ok? do you really think this is the way to console people, by laughing at them?
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
“Chill Bro. I’m just joking! Don’t start crying over a dick face seriously. Jeez, just trying to be funny, cause I’m a jackass.”
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
lol ok bro. I totally get you humor, but I missed it there. It’s all good.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
Grow up.
Bernie19Kosar - July 11, 2010
I’m not worshipping him. I don’t care if he likes me. I wanted the cavs to be a championship team, now that is at least a couple years away, and thats being optimistic.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
When this guy sits there breathing heavy with his hands out of sight at the end of the clip, I keep expecting him to have a visible orgasm.
Sports isn’t an earth-shattering matter of importance in the grand scheme of things. Um, no s**t. Neither is a MeTube rant, ass**le.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 10, 2010
Stop being an a-hole. Maybe you don’t care but a lot of people here do. You can stay away from this thread if you don’t care to discuss it, but you don’t need to come here and be a jerk about it.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
Stop crying over a dick face who cares nothing about Cleveland.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
Stop crying that we’re talking about it.
Buckeye Brad - July 10, 2010
I’m not crying. I’m trying to consol you guys. Stop worrying about a bitch who doesn’t like you. Snap out if it!!!
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
You must suck at funerals.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
I’m not worried about LeBron, I’m worried about the Cavs and the city of Cleveland.
Also, you’re a pretty terrible counselor.
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Why would I cry over you dick face.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
This place would be boring with out me.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
you have an awful high opinion of yourself.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Jokes
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
Aren’t Funny.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
no
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
You just piss everyone off.
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
Why are you talking to yourself?
emily522 - July 10, 2010
He did this frequently while you were gone.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
This reply is the most truthful statement in this thread.
gahnki - July 10, 2010
Haha
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Are you saying I just piss everyone off?
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
Including yourself.
SpecialBrownie - July 11, 2010
Stop using this as a chat room you fake Browns fan. And I know you’re not a Cavs fan either. Shut the hell up, boy.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
just because someone is younger than you doesn’t mean you’re better. you’re the dick here, not him.
notthatnoise - July 10, 2010
Shut the hell up Cali dick.
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
West side is the best side.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
Screw you, I’m certainly not a fake Browns fan but there are more than just Browns fans on the blog, other people come by and talk too and not everyone is a troll like Malor.
TheRealSlimShady - July 10, 2010
You attack me, I respond.
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
You deserve to be attacked when you act like you are the king of this blog.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
I actually agree with walterfootball for once.
emily522 - July 10, 2010
Ok, let’s stop the fits wit each other. If you want to call someone a dick, reserve it for LeBron.
Chris Pokorny - July 10, 2010
…or BY? =D
SpecialBrownie - July 10, 2010
No, just this guy…
Chris Pokorny - July 10, 2010
WTF???
Brownie's Year - July 10, 2010
(Whips out a Yellow Card)
Seriously, though, please chill out from many of the type of comments you’ve made in this thread.
Chris Pokorny - July 11, 2010
I think your plan to post an emoticon misfired.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
No, instead of a full “Sprint” article, he now does sponsoring via comments.
SpecialBrownie - July 11, 2010
Rec
Western Reserve - July 11, 2010
I think this is the longest thread ever on here possibly.
LeBron’s ego would explode at the thought.
emily522 - July 11, 2010
I’m pretty sure we’ve had longer, especially if you count the draft open thread as one big thread.
notthatnoise - July 11, 2010
Oh yeah. I forgot about that.
emily522 - July 11, 2010
I think a couple of the free agency threads went well over 1,000 as well.
Bernie19Kosar - July 11, 2010
I don’t know if Lebron’s can take full credit. He did have help from Kobe, BY’s and SB’s face off, TRSS’s and pryor’s love/hate relationship, Manning v. Ben v. Brady, etc. I mean Lebron’s good but he had alot of help.
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
Yeah, and apparently he needs a lot of help to win anything.
emily522 - July 11, 2010
That was good.
Buckeye Brad - July 11, 2010
Why thank you.
emily522 - July 11, 2010
Bravo indeed.
SpecialBrownie - July 11, 2010
Yahtzee.
rufio - July 12, 2010
I laughed at that. Well done.
TheRealSlimShady - July 11, 2010
Anyone else watching the Kevin Hart special on CC? Seriously, they’ve shown LeBron in the crowd like 10 times and he even stood up during a joke and centered all attention to himself because Kevin pointed out Shaq in the front (who sat like a gentleman) and made a joke. LeBron HAD to stand up to control his laughter.
SpecialBrownie - July 11, 2010
it’s not live though
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
The King and his Jester.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas considering joining Heat
Villeslgr - July 11, 2010
You have got to be effing kidding me.
rufio - July 12, 2010
Z for Three, BANG!
Chris Pokorny - July 12, 2010
this would not upset me, Z is old and has been extremely loyal throughout his career, if he wants to go chasing championships so be it.
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
Z is pretty ineffective at this point. I would prefer he go to the Heat as I wouldn’t expect him to help much.
Roger Dorn - July 12, 2010
yeah, he seems to have even lost his shooting touch, so while i still like the guy, he’s not really going to help win games.
notthatnoise - July 12, 2010
I like the guy, unlike Lebron, he’s been extremely loyal. But like everyone else said, his skills are diminishing exponentially. He has to right to chase a championship now and ride, unlike LeBron. Him leaving would probably be beneficial to us. God speed to his choice and hope he does well.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
+1
emily522 - July 12, 2010
That said, I wouldn’t be able to root for him in Miami.
Western Reserve - July 12, 2010
I wouldn’t be able to root for a Priest in Miami.
Bernie19Kosar - July 12, 2010
I know I will get called a certain word for this, but some of you might enjoyt this
TheRealSlimShady - July 12, 2010
I thought it was funny.
Simmsinns - July 12, 2010
I’ll do it:
homophobe.
notthatnoise - July 13, 2010
Jesse Jackson playing the Race Card.
Ugh.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
rufio - July 12, 2010
… Dude, you violated that whole paragraph in this thread when you binged. Don’t be a hypocrite.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
There’s a difference between an emotional reaction in the moment and putting up politically charged stuff days after the fact, is there not?
rufio - July 12, 2010
no, no there isn’t actually. both are against the rules
The Licensed Pessimist - July 12, 2010
Well then I messed up when I was out of control and I apologize for that, but I am sick of reading hundreds of comments on whether or not teens are profiled by police on this football blog, and I think we can be angry at Lebron without having to drag race into it.
rufio - July 12, 2010
The policed one is on a thread that has been shoved into the archives.
…Unless freakin’ Bross started it again like an idiot.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
Yes but it was one in a string of posts that have gone well into political debate, which always ends up badly. Does anyone really want to come here to discuss abortion, gay rights, racism in america and american history, gun control, etc.?
rufio - July 12, 2010
If you’re speaking about my JJ comment, Jackson claims that LeBron is a runaway slave. It sounds like he’s using the A.A. race to his advantage and I posted it into the appropriate thread, the LeBron thread.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
I am referring to tons of different comments. I remember some about the Rooney Rule, I remember something about Hitler, I remember the teen driving/cops one, there are probably many I’ve forgotten.
I would have plenty to say about Jackson’s comments and also TRSS’ video if I cared to discuss that sort of thing on the internet.
rufio - July 12, 2010
at least the hitler one spawned a hilarious signature line.
Dawg Nuts - July 12, 2010
Indeed, and in itself a ban.
It’s a never ending ban circle centered around Hitler.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
And really? There is no difference between reacting to something in the heat of an emotionally charged moment and doing something based on hours/days of calm analysis?
rufio - July 12, 2010
No.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
And to not be a hypocrite, I also apologize for the things I said and would like them deleted if against the rules.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
You have never done something in the heat of the moment that you aren’t proud of that you wouldn’t have done in an otherwise calm situation?
rufio - July 12, 2010
That’s not the point Rufio.
Regardless of Mental anguish, rules are rules and must be followed. I’ve done what you’ve said but quit trying to turn this into something it’s not. Emotional commenting is still against rules depending on what’s being said.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
Fine. Delete all my comments and ban me. Call me a hypocrite because my reactions under a unique emotional stress are different than when I am thinking calmly.
rufio - July 12, 2010
You may think different depending on emotions, but sociology states that in your age, your morals are set; so if your morals are to follow rules, you should’ve followed them. The guidelines didn’t change that day. Don’t get all huffed up Rufio, that’s not what I want to do but you were, by definition, being a hypocrite to some of the things in your blocked paragraph and were violating the guidelines as many did that day, like me. But your explanations were weak.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
Fine. Discuss anything political you want. I’ll be banning myself for two weeks.
rufio - July 12, 2010
…Um, what happened?
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
I think stuff that is in the heat of the moment, like game threads or threads about a player boning a city, are treated with much more leniency.
Bernie19Kosar - July 12, 2010
Due to majority. Say in this thread, everyone was kind of meh and this dude came in just flipping and cursing and saying racial slurs. Against guidelines. When majority rules, the rules bend. It’s society, can’t help it. But the main point of my argument was that in a controlled situation, no mental capacity, be it emotional, calm, intelligent, or idiotic, is above the rules and guidelines.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
And where was I political, racist, or excessively foul? The one comment where I verbally attacked (guilty), I said “screw you”, which was a lot less foul than what I was thinking.
rufio - July 12, 2010
stop acting like this is the only thread where you’ve been involved in a political discussion. you are just as guilty on a day-to-day basis as the rest of us (maybe not all of us, I tend to go overboard). On more than one occassion I’ve seen you get involved in race arguments.
notthatnoise - July 13, 2010
No one is above the law, regardless of mental capacity.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
I never claimed to have a higher mental capacity than anyone here, if that is what you are thinking. In many ways, I am sure my intelligence would pale in comparison to others here.
If my comments were really that offensive and out of control, they should be deleted and I am fine with that.
I am not above the law, I just don’t want to read a million replies to something political again.
rufio - July 12, 2010
I meant mental capacity in the state of intoxication, my friend.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
I was more pissed/hurt than drunk.
rufio - July 12, 2010
As was I and because everyone was in the same state, it was “fine” in the moment but is still against the rules regardless.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
Oh, wow.
SpecialBrownie - July 12, 2010
Wow is right.
emily522 - July 12, 2010
Okay, so the show does a pretty good job of depicting who he is in real life: a scoundrel.
Western Reserve - July 12, 2010
wow…they are brothers…interesting…
bross09 - July 13, 2010
I just watched the nice little interview with Wade, Bosh, and James that was on ESPN today… The one where Wade makes a sorry attempt at sticking up for James. It kinda cracked me up.
“One thing that disturbs me is they say Micheal and Magic and Larry did it by theyself… They did not do it by themselves, no one has done it by theyself. Go check the numbers, go look at the teams. They talk about LeBron diminishing his brand because he decided to team up with two other great players. Everyone has done it.”
… Micheal Jordan didn’t decide to leave his hometown team to go to some other team because they had another one of the players considered to be probably one of the 3 best players in the NBA and an above-average role player who somehow became a superstar overnight. From what I understand, he stayed with the Bulls for (almost) his entire career, so it wasn’t like he pulled a LeBron James and decided to become Dwayne Wade’s little… Nevermind. He didn’t decide to ride shotgun on someone else’s team so he could ride someone else’s success and skills to the championship. LeBron James can never ever EVER measure up to Micheal Jordan now. He’s more like Scotty Pippen, and no one ever talks about Pippen unless he’s a side-bar in a conversation about how great Micheal Jordan was. Maybe LeBron James is the best SIDEKICK to ever play in the NBA, but I would like to punch anyone in the mouth who mentions Micheal Jordan and LeBron James in the same sentence (unless it’s in the context of something like “Micheal Jordan is the best player to play the game, and LeBron James is a pussy”).
And another thing: How in the hell does the media think they can paint it as James making a sacrifice in order to win because he took a $15 mil pay cut over the course of 5 years? My mom is a single mom and still has 2 kids living under her roof and it will take her years to earn just 1 MILLION dollars… And people want to say James sacrificed oh so much by getting paid $110 million instead of $125 mil? Maybe in the land where everyone is a multi-millionaire that would make sense, but I wish they would stop feeding their BS to the people who actually WORK to make ends meet. And one more thing on that note… If my mom is going to quit her job to go to a different job, she’s going to give a 2 week notice; she’s not going to wait until the moment she leaves and then drop the bomb on her workplace for God and everyone to see on TV.
In hindsight, LeBron James doesn’t really represent anything at all about our great city. We’re better off without that sorry son of a bitch. So… I say take your talent to South Beach and get the f**k out of Cleveland, LeBron James!
PS- I’m guessing that with over 1200 comments on this thread, I haven’t said anything new. I just haven’t really vented enough yet, so this is kinda my therapeutic outlet. I’m sure most of you can understand :)
PSS- How did Delonte West end up getting paired with James’ mama? I definitely approve, it’s just amusing to me and I’m curious.
shep615 - July 13, 2010
Adult Language
Weed and KFC to answer your Delonte PSS.
Villeslgr - July 13, 2010
Ugh, I know… Is there a way to go back and edit it? I’d take the naughty language out, I just don’t know how to edit a post. Normally I wouldn’t curse, but this stuff has been brewing for a few days and I didn’t even think about the language. Sorry!
shep615 - July 13, 2010
Most common DBN feature request: Comment edit \ delete functionality, not currently available.
FWIW, I thought your language was completely understandable, given the situation and your obvious passion.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - July 13, 2010
My bad i wasn’t talking about your post, I was talking about the link i posted. I didn’t want anyone to click on it and get offended by the language.
Sorry about the confusion.
Villeslgr - July 13, 2010
Oh! No worries :)
shep615 - July 13, 2010
We’ve talked the death out of this thread, and it’s time to get back to football (at least until the next Around the Pound thread). Closing comments here!
Chris Pokorny - July 13, 2010
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