After a thrilling three days and thousands of comments here at DBN, I am trying to take a step back and form my opinions of what we did in this draft as a whole. I don't want to give us grades because everyone else gives grades. There is plenty of that out there if you want it. I just want to gather my thoughts and hear others' on the weekend as a whole.
After the jump, I have a few thoughts on our division competition, BPA vs. need, and the Montario Hardesty and TJ Ward picks.
If you want to win in this league, you have beat the other teams on the field. If you want to be better on the field, you have to beat them in the front office.
I think we had a good draft. I know we improved our football team. But one of my biggest concerns with this draft is our success relative to other teams, particularly other teams in the division; did we do enough to pull ourselves up in the division? It doesn't really matter if we got better, we have to get better relative to the other teams in the division, or we'll never be at the top.
The Ravens' draft is the one that scares me. If Kindle's knee ends up being OK and he isn't robbed of his explosiveness, the Ravens' defense just reloaded.
I am of the "Best Player Available" school when it comes to the draft, and I don't think you can make the argument that some of the players we chose (TJ Ward, for example) were the best on the board when we chose. Others (Colt McCoy, Joe Haden) may very well have been. Not even Michael Smith knows for sure; maybe these guys were at the top of our board when we selected them.
Whatever the philosophy of the front office, we can be sure that we selected players at positions of need. I want Mike Furry and Brandon McDonald as far down the depth chart in the secondary as possible, and Haden and Ward should certainly push them down while Asante can probably push for playing time in sub packages. Colt McCoy fell into our laps at our biggest area of need; Quarterback. We got a young defensive lineman, a guard for the right side, and a big, speedy wideout. Each of our picks was in one of our biggest areas of need with the exception of Hardesty.
Initially, I wasn't thrilled with the selections of Hardesty and Ward. But the more I watch and read about these guys, the more I think they've flashed the talent to be very good in the NFL. There are positive qualities about each.
Hardesty ran a 4.49 40 at the combine, putting up 21 reps on the bench press, and having a positional best 41" vertical jump. He was also atop the broad jump numbers for RBs at 10'4", and was in the top-5 for RBs with a 6.87 3-cone drill and a 4.14 short shuttle--all of this at 225lbs. The physical talent to be a very good NFL back is there.
Ward ran a 4.54 40 at the combine, but got his time down to 4.45-4.49 at his pro day (multiple sources with multiple times). He was able to put up 19 reps on the bench press and posted a 34" vertical leap to go along with a 4.12 short shuttle. What all of these numbers mean (and what the film shows) is that TJ Ward has the agility, speed, and movement skills to cover at the NFL level.
We probably could have gotten him a full round later, sure. But as some have pointed out, if we took Colt McCoy in the 2nd and Ward in the 3rd, none of the national pundits would be complaining.
The reason that Ward and Hardesty were considered reaches to varying degrees is because of injuries.
Ward didn't start until his senior year at California powerhouse De La Salle. During his senior season of high school, Ward suffered a rupture of his patella tendon--one of the most serious knee injuries. No one recruited him so he walked on at Oregon with his friend and teammate Terrance Kelly. Kelly was shot to death two days before he was scheduled to arrive at Oregon.
Once at Oregon, Ward had another knee injury, this time an MCL tear (much less severe). During his Sophomore season, he played despite having to get his knee drained of blood every two weeks. He was completely healthy his junior season, and missed a few games in his senior year due to a high ankle sprain.
Hardesty runs high, magnifying injury concerns. He had a season-ending knee injury in 2005 and missed four combined games in 2007 and 2008. In 2009, he was "hampered by sore knees" but played all 13 games to the tune of 1300+ yards in the SEC.
The best part about both of these players is that their major injuries occurred several years ago. The Browns' doctors have checked them out and gave the team the green light to draft either. Hopefully both stay healthy so that they can show their talent in Browns uniforms.
If several of these picks work out, this could end up being a phenomenal draft for us. If everything goes the way it is planned, we have a new feature back, a franchise QB, Darelle Revis II, a third young OL starter, two starting Safeties, a replacement for an aging Robaire Smith, and a huge, fast WR.
I doubt it goes quite that well, but even if Haden becomes a lockdown corner and Colt McCoy becomes an above-average QB, this draft is a win. In my opinion, much of the success of this drat is hinging on McCoy. From what I've seen and heard, I am happy to have him.
2 recs | 309 comments
Interestingly enough, Heckert said yesterday that he was worried about Ward falling to us, so I am wondering if a number of NFL teams had him ranked a lot higher than the media mocks.
Nice insights, thanks for sharing.
Roger Dorn - April 24, 2010
exactly. and I like Mitchell but all the media had him as a third rounder…
bross09 - April 24, 2010
to quote Drew Carrey “now it’s your team that sucks”… I have a feeling that I will be able to use that soon
Tom Bloom - April 24, 2010
Ha, when did he say that?
gahnki - April 24, 2010
I’d say Haden & McCoy since Haden was our first round and pick and considered the top corner in the draft. McCoy for obvious reasons since we needed a QB (I have a good feeling about him).
Still a little concerned about Ward’s and Hardesty’s injuries, but it’s nice to know they all happened several years ago.
emily522 - April 24, 2010
I think if Haden and one of the safeties become solid starters for us and two of the other guys become solid rotation guys then this draft is a success.
As far as QB is concerned…QB picks are all Boom or Bust, but you can’t hit a homerun without swinging the bat. So, I have high hopes for Colt McCoy but no real expectations. I think it was a good move by the front office to take him at that spot, so I like the pick whether he pans out or not.
Bumblyjack - April 24, 2010
McCoy is the real deal. Was a great High School QB mfor a 2A teaxas school (Graham), and everyone saw him on the College stage. Just watch the 2 brothers he has, his old man is 1 hell of a coach…. Don’t forget, in texas football is Bigger than Jesus (they are on the same level), and friday and saturady at game time, businesses can just shut down, cux there ain’t no business going on….
J. W. - April 25, 2010
I originally thought why a running back? I wonder if they are ridding themselves of Jennings, and Davis’ injury is worse than I thought.
All in all, watching that film, he is outstanding, and i am excited.
allsides - April 24, 2010
Rufio, I did the same as you. I got on youtube to check the highlights for Ward and Hardesty, and what can I say… I really liked what I saw. These guys absolutely have the talent. No doubt the injury concerns kept them low on most draft analysts’ boards.
What I like about Hardesty is not just the fact that he’s a power runner – I saw a couple of defenders’ helmets fly off! – but he has very good vision and the ability to not just break a tackle but to spin or juke to avoid the tackle altogether. If healthy, he could be a feature back and probowler. I see why they had to trade up and get him. He could be really special.
I think the success of any draft is told by how many repeat probowlers you get out of it. Not just one-timers like Braylon. I see 3 guys from this draft class that could be perenial all-pro players for 4-5+ seasons: McCoy, Haden, and Hardesty. The only reason I don’t list Ward is due to past injuries and the fact that the 3 best safeties in the NFL are all in the AFC. Now there’s Berry and Ward added to that competition. He’d have to be super special consistently to outshine Reed, Polumalu, Sanders, and Berry.
dawgtribe - April 24, 2010
Wishfull thinking
TheRealSlimShady - April 24, 2010
Thats the point. It is wishful thinking on everybody’s draft board, not just the Browns.
Grockcubs - April 24, 2010
I’m sure everyone’s already done it, but really, make sure you see TJ Ward’s hits. He clearly is deranged. I love to finally have an intimidating DB.
joeee - April 24, 2010
About McCoy, what I’m most excited about is his passion and fire. I admit that’s a cliche, but it seems to me that guys like McCoy are the reason that cliche exists. It’s even more exciting to me than his historically good accuracy. 70+ percent is an astonishing feat, and it will pay dividends for the Browns.
The sun is shining in Cleveland. This is a great day to be a Browns fan.
danvail - April 24, 2010
+1
And I like how we’re not playing him next season. At some point I’m sure I’ll think “I wish Colt was out there” but it’s a mistake to put him in before he’s ready.
He’ll be playing during the preseason, though.
emily522 - April 24, 2010
My favorite part about McCoy, other than his passion and fire… Is that he said “Dag gum” in his conference call and he told reporters “We played in Kansas and Missouri… So I’ve played in a lot of cold weather games.” This poor kid has no idea that he aint in Kansas (or Missouri) anymore… Cleveland weather is gonna welcome him eventually ;-)
I’m really excited. I think he’s going to be great.
shep615 - April 25, 2010
This is quite amusing for me as someone who has lived in both Missouri and Ohio.
Roger Dorn - April 25, 2010
kwoog - April 25, 2010
Who wrote this?
Roger Dorn - April 25, 2010
It’s the Scouts, Inc. player evaluation. I linked to the espn page, but it may be Insider only.
kwoog - April 25, 2010
they run a lot of bubble screens (Texas) like the Patriots do with Wes Welker which counts for that number
sleepy042 - April 25, 2010
His accuracy on the deep balls I am not all that worried about. The intermediate timing stuff is more my worry. But he has room to improve in that area. Physically, I think everyone knows he isn’t going to Favre a 70 yard pass on a rope across his body.
rufio - April 25, 2010
Yeah, Montana and Sipe and Kosar didn’t have rocket arms either. Kiper says Colt’s arm is underrated
jaws. - April 25, 2010
Don’t know enough about Colt’s arm to comment and I never saw Brian Sipe play, but Montana could definitely throw the ball deep and so could Kosar. They didn’t have Kyle Boller’s arm, but they definitely could throw long — nothing like Brady Quinn’s sorry attempts at long balls (eg the end of the Baltimore game last year on Monday night).
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
It is definitely a concern, and I am glad you brought it up, but two things:
1. His offense at Texas lacked a deep threat. Malcolm Williams was the only legitimate vertical threat, but he was only there for his Junior/Senior seasons and he was inconsistent at best.
2. He is in the right offense for his skillset. The WCO emphasizes short-field accuracy over arm strength.
gahnki - April 25, 2010
Exactly.
emily522 - April 25, 2010
Said the same thing about BQ. I am reasonably optimistic about Colt, but my hopes aren’t up. As B19K’s article showed, it is very rare to find a good starter in the 3rd round. He was worth the pick, but let’s not crown him already.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
And if he sucks, big deal. He cost us a third.
Bernie19Kosar - April 26, 2010
Agree. It is worth taking a flier on a QB in the third. But I think some people around here are already deluding themselves into believing that he is the future of the franchise. I hope he is. I am cautiously optimistic he will be a solid starter, but the odds are against it. Let’s not turn his weaknesses into strengths — ie bad arm strength (which I don’t even know is true or not) is somehow a strength in the west coast offense because he has short-field accuracy.
We heard the same crap about Brady — he was a Winner™ and his lack of arm strength was a plus because he had accuracy.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
With Brady, actually it wasn’t Winner™, it was his Great Attitude™, his Work Ethic™ and Love for the Game™.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
love the trademark symbol.
Dawg Nuts - April 26, 2010
I hope BQ’s Love for the Game™ holds out while he’s in Denver, Watching from the Bench™.
I have high hopes for Colt’s accuracy, and it certainly would be a nice change. But whatever happens happens. We’ll see what he’s really got in good time. Meanwhile, I like the idea of having him around.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 28, 2010
nobody is calling bad arm strength a good thing. all anybody is saying is that a WCO helps mask that issue, because the QB simply isn’t asked to make as many deep throws.
that said, i think people are probably overestimating the degree to which our offense is changing.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
Agreed. Did anybody watch the press conference yesterday? We’re not switching to a WCO. Holmgren said this is Mangini and Daboll’s offense and we’re doing what they want to. He even went so far as to say we were going to do it well (buuuuuuuh?). He did state that Gil Haskell is working with Daboll and Haskell and Daboll are giving them suggestions as to what has worked for them in the past.
StuckInPa - April 26, 2010
That means we will be running a heavily WCO-influenced gameplan by 2011
jaws. - April 26, 2010
i really don’t see where you’re getting that from.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
The only reason I would be thinking that would be because Daboll has demonstrated a lot of ineffectiveness in the passing game to this point. If the stuff he brings over isn’t working and the stuff Haskell is feeding him is, he’s going to run the stuff Gil’s feeding him.
rufio - April 26, 2010
good point.
I’m actually sort of surprised the passing game has been so bad from daboll. wasn’t he a QB coach? maybe it wasn’t his offense, just the guys running it?
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
Let’s hope it was 100% the quarterbacks.
rufio - April 27, 2010
i personally think it was probably mostly the QBs
notthatnoise - April 27, 2010
And the WRs.
danvail - April 27, 2010
It was definitely a little bit of both, but I’m gonna say mostly QB’s. Massaquoi looked like he might break out, so this year should be better. As many people have pointed out, WRs take a couple years to break out. But great QBs can make a WR look amazing as well, just put it in the right place. I mean look at Peyton Manning had with him in Indianapolis. And Brett Favre made Sidney Rice look like a probowler as well.
StuckInPa - April 27, 2010
The QBs definitely added a stink factor, and the WRs were not all that polished, but the entire first half of the season seemed to consist of passes at or just behind the LoS, and that sounds like a play-calling issue to me.
JustBob - April 27, 2010
Unless we are talking about some sort of screen pass, 99.9% of all pass plays have some sort of progression built in to them so that a QB would never be locked in to throwing behind the line.
I think it would have more to do with poor play design (no WRs open past the LoS) and the QBs having to check down.
rufio - April 28, 2010
But the situation won’t be any better this year.
TheRealSlimShady - April 27, 2010
I don’t see how you can be sure of this.
I am down on Delhomme as anyone, but I don’t think it is a forgone conclusion that the Browns passing game will be as bad as it was last season.
Bernie19Kosar - April 27, 2010
In my uninformed opinion JD >>>>>>>>>>Anderson>Quinn
Villeslgr - April 27, 2010
I would go JD>>>>Quinn>Anderson.
rufio - April 28, 2010
I’m still partially blinded by 2007 and DA’s arm. So much so that it’s hard for me to see pass his stupidity.
Villeslgr - April 28, 2010
This.
StuckInPa - April 28, 2010
reply fail. i agree with villeslgr
StuckInPa - April 28, 2010
Me too.
Buckeye Brad - April 28, 2010
DId you watch Delhome last year?
TheRealSlimShady - April 30, 2010
I’ve watched Quinn and Anderson’s career’s. I’ll give Delhomme the benefit and say he is trending towards crap and not actually there yet.
Villeslgr - May 1, 2010
careers
Villeslgr - May 1, 2010
It’s just how the NFL is. We can’t expect to use the power run to then set up the playaction pass. That is stone age stuff now. Mike Holmgren is here, there is no way that he lets us continue to run stone age offense ineffectively when he comes from the Bill Walsh tree.
jaws. - April 27, 2010
using the power run to set up the play-action pass still works
notthatnoise - April 27, 2010
Jaws believes the NFL is on the cusp of a offensive awakening.
Maybe we are, maybe we aren’t. But one thing I know for sure, if you run the ball right down someones throat long enough, play action will be open all day long.
Bernie19Kosar - April 27, 2010
No awakening required. The “run first, then use playaction” school of thought was the last system to be outmoded. Bill Walsh’s main innovation was proving to everyone that the short pass sets up the run just as well as the run sets up the pass.
You’ve got to be able to pass it to get the most out of your running game, just like you have got to have the threat to run to get the most out of your passing game.
jaws. - April 27, 2010
notthatnoise - April 27, 2010
We are on the cusp of an offensive awakening – and it involves a lot of FBs.
JustBob - April 27, 2010
bross09 - April 27, 2010
your still a moron.
jaws. - April 27, 2010
You’re*
jaws. - April 27, 2010
why the insult? how does this make me a moron? b/c I was on a cpu that didn’t have firefox and ie screwed up blockquote?
bross09 - April 27, 2010
also: definition of Irony-Jaws says someone is a moron and misspells you’re
bross09 - April 27, 2010
your
Villeslgr - April 27, 2010
Jaws, even the biggest advocates of the spread and of throwing the ball know that what you said is flat out false, and that they use the same conceptual thinking in their offenses.
The stuff that is still run in the NFL is run because it works in the NFL. We sucked at running it, and there were plays where Daboll was not running anything that made any kind of sense, but run, run, PA deep will always be effective in football if you can run.
You know what else is stone age? The Run-n-shoot. “if you can’t block him, read him”. It still works when applied properly.
rufio - April 27, 2010
ugh, I’m not claiming that playaction doesn’t work. Thats not what I meant. I mean that we are going to have to have some sort of passing game if we want our running game to be anywhere near as effective as it was last year. Mike Holmgren knows that, so does Brian Daboll (I hope)
jaws. - April 27, 2010
But who has said anything different?
Villeslgr - April 27, 2010
Yes, and also, we don’t need to use any sort of short passing game to do that. If our YPA is at least about 1 yard higher than our YPC, we should be set.
If those are 1/5 deep bombs going for 60 yards and a TD or if those are 4/5 going for 15 yards, it won’t matter.
rufio - April 28, 2010
If cribbs were on my team I would prefer first quarter passing of 4/5 for 15 yards. Its more likely to bring first downs and you’ll end up having that 60 yarder at some point.
steelerstyle - April 28, 2010
if you go 4/5 for 15 yards apiece and then bust a 60 yarder, your YPA is much higher than any of the other choices. That would definitely be my preference.
rufio - April 28, 2010
I think you want to scheme around your personnel. and if colt McCoy is going to be our quarterback, we had better be planning on using an offense that is built around those 4/5 for 15 yds performances.
jaws. - April 29, 2010
We still need to threaten deep. A defense can still get 8-9 close to the LoS to defend the run AND those short passes if we can never go deep.
Colt McCoy needs to become a better deep/intermediate thrower if he wants to succeed in the NFL.
And your original points are still defeated. Spread offenses have a long history, power running + PA pass still works.
rufio - April 29, 2010
Actually I meant 4/5 for a total of 15 yards.
My point not effectively made was a high percentage passing game for Cribbs is similar to a vertical threat with his YAC ability.
steelerstyle - April 29, 2010
I got that. It was effectively made, just not really what I was trying to discuss.
rufio - April 30, 2010
Once again, thank you for stating the obvious.
EVERY coach in the NFL knows that. What exactly is your point?
You’re acting like bross now. You make one statement then when people show that you’re wrong you backtrack and claim you meant something else.
Buckeye Brad - April 28, 2010
uhhhhh DUH! If we don’t have some sort of passing game, teams will just be able to put 8-9 defenders in the box…if we don’t have some sort of effective passing game, a PA play won’t work b/c the passing offense is ineffective…
bross09 - April 28, 2010
The fortysix D pretty much killed the play action pass offense, and the WCO in turn killed the 46.
I don’t think you can sit in one scheme on either side of the ball these days.
LondonBrown - April 28, 2010
however, i really never heard that about BQ, the winner tag. I thought one of the criticisms was he didn’t do well in big games or against good competition.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
Which seems to be the problem with every ND QB. So glad we didn’t take Clausen.
StuckInPa - April 26, 2010
Clausen did well in big games. His team didn’t
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
So you are saying Notre Dame football sucks?
Roger Dorn - April 26, 2010
TRSS pondering this question
Bernie19Kosar - April 26, 2010
I’m saying that they didn’t play well in big games, but actually, cancel that. It was the easy games when we sucked.
BUT Clausen was still consistently good.
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
I can see him being our starter in 2 seasons. He’ll have plenty of time to learn the offense, improve on whatever he can improve on, and plus he won’t have the pressure of being a first round pick. I think he could be above average, but not in the upper tier of QBs.
I’m sure Holgren saw something that made him want to draft him. He knows QBs, and he was the one who made the push to get him.
Maybe my expectations are a little high, though.
emily522 - April 26, 2010
thats what I am thinking pretty much exactly.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
He is a young QB on our roster. There is a lot to like about him. We have a chance—albeit a small chance—that we already have the rights to a franchise QB.
I will take any sliver of hope that comes with that because it’s April. To assume that we are automatically set at QB for the next 10 years would be foolish.
rufio - April 26, 2010
Si
danvail - April 27, 2010
Yup.
emily522 - April 26, 2010
It depends on how long you wait on him.
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
Why would this matter?
Bernie19Kosar - April 26, 2010
If he ends up playing bad, how long will you wait until you give up on him
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
depends on why he isn’t playing bad.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
why he is* playing bad
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
I think Colt has a 1-2 year window to show that he is the guy going forward.
Bernie19Kosar - April 27, 2010
It’s likely he will be retained for the majority of his rookie contract.
Roger Dorn - April 27, 2010
but maybe not as a starter. if he gets his chance and blows it, we could just keep him around as a backup.
notthatnoise - April 27, 2010
Right. No one is guaranteed playing time.
Roger Dorn - April 27, 2010
They have to run a system that fits his skills. Now that you’ve drafted him you’ve got to give him every opportunity to succeed.
Another reason why I expect us to have quite a bit of WCO influence in the playbook by 2011.
jaws. - April 27, 2010
Holmgren said the drafting of McCoy would not prohibit the Browns from selecting a QB high next year if necessary. I don’t think the Browns are ready to hitch their wagons to him yet; hopefully he shows them something in practices this year to give them reason to let him start some games in 2011 and not worry about drafting a QB next year, but that remains to be seen. I would hope that he at least gets a chance to prove himself as a starter, but that probably depends on what happens this coming season. If he struggles learning the offense and making the throws then Holmgren won’t be afraid to pick another QB high next year. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that, though.
Buckeye Brad - April 27, 2010
MO
Holmgren is just talking completely straight. If BPA happens to be a QB he gets selected and it does reflect much on McCoy
steelerstyle - April 27, 2010
does not reflect
steelerstyle - April 27, 2010
I think drafting McCoy was like finding money on the street, we just have to find out how much we found.
Villeslgr - April 27, 2010
Nice analogy!
Agree.
LondonBrown - April 28, 2010
i like this analogy, i may use it myself.
notthatnoise - April 28, 2010
Nice analogy.
emily522 - April 28, 2010
Too bad you found a penny on its tails side…
TheRealSlimShady - April 30, 2010
someone’s bitter…
notthatnoise - May 1, 2010
better than finding s on the bottom of your shoe
Villeslgr - May 1, 2010
By all means, I am referencing being “the man” here in Cleveland.
If Colt shows the team nothing all year in practice, preseason, etc. I would assume that this FO would be looking at a QB next season.
Bernie19Kosar - April 27, 2010
Sure Harrison did good at the end, but Hardesty will be the starter soon.
My grandma could have put up 280 on the Chiefs, and she’s 84. Our line is just sic.
Brownie's Year - April 24, 2010
i might be most excited about the late pickups of carlton mitchell and geathers.
While mitchell does not offer the pure speed I would have liked to see us pick up in a WR, his height and big play ability helps make up for it. Geathers is a prototypical 3-4 DE, if he can stay healthy and develop a little bit more, he could become a fixture on the line. You cant teach his length. I only wish we picked up an OLB somewhere in the draft, i feel like we are still going to have trouble getting to the QB.
brandeezy09 - April 24, 2010
Mitchel runs a 4.40. It is the separation/in and out of cuts movement I am worried about. In a straight line he is plenty fast. He also ran the 400 for USF, I believe.
rufio - April 24, 2010
It is said to be that after he added a little weight he lost a step i dont think he is in the 4.40 range now but i know he was in his Freshmen year when he had his best season as well
deibson84 - April 24, 2010
That 40 time is at his pro day—reported, I was not there clocking him.
rufio - April 24, 2010
4.40 at the pro day, 4.49 at the combine, reportedly.
I don’t put a whole lot of stock in 40 times, but the kid can run in a straight line in shorts. Hopefully he can turn that into being a legit threat on the football field.
rufio - April 24, 2010
carltonmitchell.net – greatest. website. ever.
my favorites are the images section, and the interview from ESPN First Take, where the news about Shaun Rogers’ arrest runs across the bottom line while he’s talking.
Dawg Nuts - April 25, 2010
They were actually flashing a 4.42 on the screen for his combine time, too.
I laughed at the Rogers’ arrest flashing across the screen.
rufio - April 25, 2010
Carlton Mitchell – “I understand this is a business, and the NFL really doesn’t need me.”
I cannot wait to see this kid produce. I’m so pumped for August.
StuckInPa - April 25, 2010
I thought he ran like a 4.49. Still, 40 speed is not always a sign of pure game speed. I believe he has good enough speed though.
bross09 - April 24, 2010
Not to steal Dorn’s meme, but where does this perception of us having trouble getting to the QB come from? We were 8th, with 40 sacks, higher than multiple playoff teams. Doesn’t anyone remember the PGH win? Ryan was sending guys from all over the field all season. Now we might actually have guys in the secondary to eliminate the big plays that sometimes resulted in that aggression.
kwoog - April 25, 2010
I think it comes from us not having a “sack guy”.
I love Rob Ryan and what he can create, but at some point in time we need to get a player who can just straight get to the QB.
As it stands right now, we don’t have a player on this roster who has had more than 7 sacks in a season. That is a scary stat. Schemes will only get us so far, at some point in time are going to need to add a serious pass rusher. Roth and Gocong have promise, but I don’t think they are keeping any LT’s up at night.
While I do understand the secondary makes the pass rush better argument, I am firmly in the camp that believes even the great CB’s can only cover for so long.
Bernie19Kosar - April 25, 2010
If we had a guy who was a threat to beat even the best LTs (Joe Thomas notwithstanding, because no one truly beats Joe Thomas) on every play, we could rush 4 and get pressure or rush 6 and get pressure.
We don’t have trouble getting to the QB, but right now everyone knows how we are getting there: complex blitzes. If we could play a more “normal” defense and still get to the QB, it would go a long way towards making our defense more unpredictable and more threatening. QBs would have a lot more they had to sift through before making decisions; blitzes are quite predictable if you know they are happening in every passing situation.
None of this means we need to reach for DE/OLBs anytime soon, nor that we “had to” take one in this draft.
rufio - April 25, 2010
I thought Roth looked pretty good for coming in in the middle of the season. Not sure what he has in the way of moves, but he certainly showed a good bull rush.
JustBob - April 25, 2010
He has solid moves and he’s strong. His speed and athleticism is his weak area, IMO.
rufio - April 25, 2010
Browns did need a RB. And in the past, I suggested we trade Brady Quinn or Derek Andersen or Braylon Edwards (when they were wearing burnt orange helmets) to the raiders for Michael Bush.
Hardesty is the same kind of runner and looks to have more upside. Bush fell in the draft because of injury too. Hardesty looks to be more of a pass catcher and more elusive.
ElPresidente - April 24, 2010
Hardesty does not have Michael Bush’s freak athleticism
TheRealSlimShady - April 24, 2010
Michael Bush also sucks.
Roger Dorn - April 24, 2010
this
bross09 - April 24, 2010
Rec.
Simmsinns - April 24, 2010
Hardesty is better. I like Bush, but what are you talking about??
Brownie's Year - April 24, 2010
Burnt Orange?? These guys didn’t play for Texas
deibson84 - April 24, 2010
How long a wait until they start signing undrafted free agents? Last year it seemed to start right away. I am sure there are a few players remaining that the Browns had on their board.
NM Dawg - April 24, 2010
They already signed on from SDSU
Steve Ryabinky - April 24, 2010
in looking back, I’m pretty pleased overall. Didn’t know much about hardesty but am now pretty excited. And I see mccoy being one of the steals of this entire draft. The defense is also immediætely much better.
Dawg Nuts - April 24, 2010 via mobile
Hardesty/Haden
Hardesty-If he can do half of what that video shows, then I would consider him a worthwhile pickup. Being as we have him now, Harrison, Davis and Jennings plus Hillis(?) we have to drop somebody. Jennings is trying to be Edwards Jr…and Davis may be able to shake his injury bug. Harrison will stay, Hillis will stay, so I’m thinking Davis and Jennings will be out.
Haden-Im praying he is the second coming of Revis. Ochocinco would hate that, facing off twice against him, and occasionally having to meet the real Revis…
dmbshn41 - April 24, 2010
There is no question the secondary is stronger. I liked the Hardesty pick. Having 3 solid backs in this league is a good move.
Ward and Hardesty stay healthy and Mitchell becomes a 3 in the wideouts, this draft will fall into place quite nicely.
Grockcubs - April 24, 2010
After reading your comments I feel a little better about them, all I saw in my magazines was about durability.
We passed on a few players I felt we needed more but, Holmgren has to have our trust on this draft.
i loved the 3 days…
Red-Right-88 - April 24, 2010
I'm liking...
…this kid…
http://www.carltonmitchell.net/
the irish chop - April 24, 2010
Seriously, he didn’t waste time did he?
Villeslgr - April 24, 2010
I’m hoping we have a quality receiver who wants to be here and is ready to prove himself unlike B.E. Plus with his Mom being a cut-woman and his dad being a former pro bball player, he should be pretty tough. I’m full of optimism.
the irish chop - April 24, 2010
Awesome.
rufio - April 24, 2010
Sweet.
emily522 - April 24, 2010
That website kicks ass. Go Carlon Mitchell!
danvail - April 25, 2010
See his interview from before the draft. He listed Cribbs — obviously before he knew he was going to Cleveland — as one of the guys he looks up to. Says he understands that the NFL does not need him, as there are plenty of other guys out there who can play.
Great background. His mom is a fight doctor.
By the way, he started as a punter!
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
He is the kind of late round pick I love. Speed, size, raw (so he drops), with evidence of solid work ethic and a willingness to do what coaches ask (moving from punter), and seems to “get it”.
What’s not to like?
rufio - April 26, 2010
That graph is fantastic
dgcambridge - April 26, 2010
If meaningless.
danvail - April 27, 2010
Btw, watch Joe Haden’s press conference at ClevelandBrowns.com
It obviously doesn’t say anything about the kid as a football player but you won’t regret it. This guy has a magnetic personality: he could cover a WR just by having a little chat.
Bumblyjack - April 24, 2010
Very solid post. Couldn’t agree more. Very happy with Holmgrens first Brownies draft. Addresses pretty much every area with almost top position guys. With Mccoy in the 3rd, that’s pretty much a steal. Colt faced better teams than any of our past drafted qb’s. Also comes in with a better o-line than Couch had. All in all I’m pretty excited about the future of our Cleveland Browns.
The naome40 - April 24, 2010 via mobile
Don’t worry so much about Hardesty’s injuries, fella’s. I’m down here near Knoxville and watched every game he played the last two years.
He’s as tough as they come!!!
Last year Tennessee don’t win more than 4 games without him. 1,300+ yds. and 10+ td’s behind a suspect line (a no-no in the SEC) AND no passing game until late in season is what we’re getting.
Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi and USC (all top tier D’s) couldn’t stop him. Nick Saban even said he ‘s the toughest RB his teams have faced in years.
Even when nageed with soreness, he’ll just catch more passes and lay some wood on some poor nickelback or linebacker.
Depending on the time split with Harrison. I’ll predict 600-800 yds. and 40-50 rec. and 10 td’s in his rookie season. He’ll be in the running for AFC Off. player of the week at least once and maybe even Rookie of the Year honors. More complete of a back than Ryan Matthews or Ben Tate who were taken ahead of him.
If you liked Deuce McCallister or even Matt Forte now, you’ll love this kid.
Also smart and as clean and humble as they get.
theotherJimBrown - April 24, 2010
wow 10 TD’s? :) cmon now…
Red-Right-88 - April 26, 2010
I think we had a pretty good draft. Most likely above average, but not awesome. But as they say, you cannot tell until 3 years from now anyways.
I think the Ravens had the best draft of the division (dagnabbit!!), I thought the Steelers draft was ok, and I haven’t looked at the Bengals draft yet, but the pundits (yeah them) seem to think did pretty good as well.
Looks like its gonna be a fun preseason. I cant wait!
talonk - April 25, 2010
I am a little worried about the Ravens’ draft.
rufio - April 25, 2010
I put it on Kindle.
If he explodes on the scene, they did amazing.
If his knee explodes like some team expect, I don’t see how they got much. Unless Cody gets into much better shape he is strictly a two down player. Neither of their TE’s are very good blockers.
And yes, I am trying to convince myself that Ozzie Newsome had a poor draft.
Bernie19Kosar - April 25, 2010
Cody doesn’t worry me at all. he may be fat as hell but that won’t work in the NFL. in college guys don’t have the form or strength to deal with someone that big, but in the NFL he’ll get pushed around. He’ll be like Ted Washington.
notthatnoise - April 25, 2010
Ted Washington was good in Oakland.
danvail - April 25, 2010
Ted Washington in his prime is the nose tackle every 3-4 team dreams of.
golanbatrac - April 25, 2010
Might have won the Pats 1 or 2 of their Super Bowls.
Roger Dorn - April 25, 2010
The Ravens’ D needs players like that, though.
That’s pretty much Kelly Gregg’s job: take up blockers and space for two downs, then let their bevvy of pass rushers come on the field on third down. I think he has the strength not to get pushed around. He’s powerful.
rufio - April 25, 2010
Fat does work actually.
TheRealSlimShady - April 25, 2010
Looks like a pretty solid draft; time will tell. I certainly think the possibilities are there for it to end up being a really good one.
I just hope, as toJB referenced a bit ago with Hardesty, that we got all character guys too. Guys that will work hard, push other players, do the “team” thing, and won’t bring off the field issues to the table.
As things stand now, I’m actually looking forward to this season quite a bit. Hopefully, with the run they went on at the end of 2009 and this draft and FA pick ups, they’ll be able to compete consistently this year.
Here we go Brownies!
OOTer - April 25, 2010
Have to disagree with the last point, as I feel almost the exact opposite. The success of this draft is almost wholly independent of Colt McCoy.
McCoy is a total flier, an extreme shot in the dark as a pick. It will not surprise me if we take another QB next year, without McCoy having ever taken a snap. He’s Charlie Frye 2.0, he’s not being drafted as a “franchise QB” (ie, one you hitch your star to and precludes you from other pursuits at the position). If he becomes a top 10 starting QB this draft is obviously a success, but if he doesn’t this draft should still provide us with 2-3 starters, minimum. Thus, the success of this draft depends on what Haden, Ward, Hardesty, etc do.
kwoog - April 25, 2010
guh… your “wagon”
kwoog - April 25, 2010
I’m on the same boat. Holmgren’s comment on how they were lucky to have McCoy kinda points in that direction.
skipkirk - April 25, 2010
I agree mostly with this. At some point we do need a QB, but the biggest pick for me is TJ Ward. If this guy turns into a real safety, then I think this draft turns out as a win.
Roger Dorn - April 25, 2010
I think we need all three of our first picks to be at least serviceable starters and at least one of them to become a pro bowl level player to call this is a success. Normally I wouldn’t say that, but you the way those picks happened it was very clear that this FO was getting guys they valued highly. Especially with the trade up for Hardesty.
danvail - April 25, 2010
I guess I was implying that I am reasonably confident in Haden and Hardesty, but want to see Ward in action.
Roger Dorn - April 25, 2010
I know this is not your major contention, but I don’t think it matters what round your good players come from when you evaluate a draft. If we got a top-10 QB and a #1WR from this draft, along with a solid backup guard and a sub-package DL who is in the rotation a lot, I think this draft is a win. Nevermind that such a draft would mean we missed on our first 3 picks but hit homeruns on days 2-3.
Obviously, this scenario is unlikely but unlikely things do happen.
rufio - April 25, 2010
If you get a top 10 QB in a draft the whole thing is a win. But expecting any 3rd rounder to be a good QB is a bad idea.
TheRealSlimShady - April 25, 2010
*expecting every
TheRealSlimShady - April 25, 2010
I think you were right the first time.
Chemo - April 26, 2010
rufio - April 26, 2010
Not talking directly to you.
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
I would consider that more being lucky than good. If they hit on late picks consistently, then I’d consider that lucky and good. If they hit on late picks consistently but missed on early picks consistently, I’d be confused as hell.
danvail - April 27, 2010
Additionally, in this scenario (and reviewing only the one draft without consideration for any others this team had done) I’d say it was a good draft by a likely flawed FO. Hitting late shows that some things are being done well. Missing early at the same time means someone important probably screwed up.
Judgement on that scenario suffers errors from extremely SSS, but an interesting hypothetical regardless.
danvail - April 27, 2010
The problem is that SSS often never gets the chance to play itself out into a big enough one because the FO will always get the axe if they don’t find players. It could very well be a flawed FO, but if they keep getting hits from somewhere, I bet they keep their jobs. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good?
rufio - April 27, 2010
Hi Kwoog.
I think this type of “take a flyer” pick of a QB was exactly what was called for in this particular draft, as beyond Bradford there really wasn’t anyone you’d want to hitch your wagon to.
Overall that stage 2nd round has taken a bit of a shine off I’m not convinced we needed a RB as to me we had 3 (Harrison, Hillis & Davis though maybe I’m reaching on Davis there). But on review these players could be good.
I’m hoping it’s another quiet (non flashy) but effective draft laying more foundations.
I’d still have loved to have seen an OLB like Kindle though. Can’t have it all.
LondonBrown - April 25, 2010
Kindle’s knee concerns are worrisome, but he is a beast.
Roger Dorn - April 25, 2010
You don’t feel like you just contradicted yourself?
I think we agree that without McCoy, all of our 1st/2nd rounders have to succeed for this draft to be a success (or some combination of our early picks and a surprise). I think we also agree that if McCoy becomes a top 10 QB, this draft is a hit regardless of what else happens.
How is that independent of McCoy?
rufio - April 25, 2010
he means the draft can still be a success without mccoy developing into anything. whether it was your intention or not, the way the post is worded it sounds as if you feel the draft is a bad one if mccoy fails.
notthatnoise - April 25, 2010
Then I was unclear. My apologies.
rufio - April 25, 2010
A 3rd round pick is never a flier.
gahnki - April 25, 2010
On a QB it is. Especially that late in the 3rd.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
Exactly. Can’t believe I am agreeing with Kwoog.
(I will therefore refrain from analyzing why this draft proves that PS should have waited for BQ to come to him with our pick in the 2d in 2007. Oops.)
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
Thanks for agreeing DSH. I admit it prompted me to review my position… but we’ll each just have to accept it, I guess. Go Browns.
(Man, no way Quinn lasts out of the first round in that draft. He probably doesn’t get to 25. The Ravens have confirmed they were trying to deal for him.)
kwoog - April 26, 2010
the fact that both DE’s are 31 & 32 for the browns is a bit disturbing for me. geathers is a project at that spot & will need all 2010 to develop. rogers is likely to get probation from the cleveland courts (the feds didnt take the case they remanded it to cleveland municipal) but i wouldnt be surprised with a 1 game suspension. the browns seem a bit vulnerable to the run at this point. it’ll be interesting to see if they can pickup another 5 technique DE in FA/Camp Cuts.
sleepy042 - April 25, 2010
Clifton Geathers:
notthatnoise - April 25, 2010
You gunna answer your phone? I’m calling you.
Brownie's Year - April 25, 2010
I am very excited to see Geathers.
Dude is a monster.
Bernie19Kosar - April 25, 2010
joe thomas is gonna have his ass for this little tidbit.
Dawg Nuts - April 25, 2010
Joe Thomas heard that, peaked around the corner, and Geathers’ was clocked at a 3.87 running out of the building.
Brownie's Year - April 25, 2010
And they will probably line up against each other…uh oh.
TheRealSlimShady - April 25, 2010
This is a great thing Geathers
The naome40 - April 26, 2010 via mobile
For Geathers, sorry
The naome40 - April 26, 2010 via mobile
I think he needs more confidence.
TheRealSlimShady - April 25, 2010
Haha
Buckeye Brad - April 25, 2010
Two word to describe Clifton Geathers:
Brick S#!*house
jaws. - April 25, 2010
This is absolutely hilarious.
This begs two questions:
1) Why in the world did James go with the nickname “Jumpy,” which is terrible, instead of the much better “Forklift”?
2) Can we refer to Clifton as “Forklift” from now on?
Chemo - April 26, 2010
I think Jumpy is an awesome nickname.
Roger Dorn - April 26, 2010
Hahaha.
emily522 - April 26, 2010
If I remember correctly it was his high level of presnap twitching on the line?
LondonBrown - April 28, 2010
Nice shout out for Da La Salle. Powerhouse, indeed. National record of 151 straight wins.
During that streak, my friends and I used to drive up and watch Maurice Jones-Drew and D.J. Williams run kids over. Williams had 40+ Tds one season. He’s now LB for Denver.
Brownie's Year - April 25, 2010
Mike Florio from profootballtalk was on NBC and rated us as having the best draft. Gave us an A. Cowboys were second with A-.
We got good players late Really did have a pretty good draft.
Brownie's Year - April 25, 2010
I think everyone in our division had a great draft. It’s almost a curse that this division is consistently so well run from the front-offices down.
gahnki - April 25, 2010
Yes & No
Argument also run that coming from a tough division makes you a better bet to challenge for the SB.
There’s only one winner in this league.
LondonBrown - April 25, 2010
Yeah but it’s hard to get in the playoffs that way.
danvail - April 27, 2010
True. Arizona proved you can come out of a limp division and nearly go the whole way.
LondonBrown - April 28, 2010
I have this very strange feeling that TJ ward is going to be an animal.
jaws. - April 25, 2010
Wright, Haden, Brown, Ward. Looks pretty good, eh?
Brownie's Year - April 25, 2010
I see too many scouting reports saying he’s bad at coverage.
The Licensed Pessimist - April 25, 2010
If McCoy were important to this draft he would have gone higher. Honestly it doesn’t seem that the FO really even cares that they got him or they expect him to be much more than a career backup. Overall though, we seem to have picked up hard hitting defenders and a potential marques colston type receiver – great draft as of now regardless of what Colt does
HenryDawg - April 25, 2010 via mobile
No, no, no. Just because you play hardball and try to hold off a pick doesn’t mean he isn’t worth anything. Why over value a player? McCoy was there in the third which is what it seemed we wanted to do. He fell right into our laps. I, personally think the opposite is true.
SpecialBrownie - April 25, 2010
It seems apparent to me that the Colt McCoy pick was planned for months. Remember a couple months back when Mangini said that it would become clear what the Kamerion Wimbley 3rd round pick would be used for? And how about Mack Brown announcing the pick? The Browns knew he would last as long as he did. He didn’t just fall into their laps. I get sick of Mel Kiper and Todd McShay thinking they know their shit. All they do is bullshit on national TV and get paid more than I could ever hope to in my life.
I started rambling, my apologies.
StuckInPa - April 26, 2010
i can’t for the life of me figure out how Todd and Mel get away with critiquing drafts and judging reaches and steals. they obviously have a much worse idea of whats going on than the guys doing it.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
Kimble_79 - April 26, 2010
Actually if you look at our DBN mock drafts I’m fairly hog certain half of them were more correct than either Mel or Todd’s.
StuckInPa - April 26, 2010
Hey now! dont be slammin Mel! Mcshay you can have, but I hated that steve young kept having to be long winded about everything.
Red-Right-88 - April 26, 2010
Mel Kiper is worse than Todd McShay. Mel Kiper CAN NOT admit he is wrong. he thinks every team is stupid for passing on Clausen and even said if Clausen wasn’t successful this year it would be because of coaching, not clausen.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
Kiper was forced to defend Clausen because of the huge debates they had McShay and him doing leading up to the draft. He would have had major egg on his face if he admitted his prognostication was wrong.
Roger Dorn - April 26, 2010
Mel’s a smug son of a bitch who needs to get his head out of his ass. I don’t mind McShay so much, and more often than not he’s got a better idea of what’s going on than Mel.
StuckInPa - April 26, 2010
I am the other way.
I like how Mel sticks to his guns. McShay is an ass.
Bernie19Kosar - April 26, 2010
sticking to your guns is only good if your guns are loaded.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
Hibachi?
Villeslgr - April 26, 2010
But at this point in time, we only have opinions.
Kiper has had no problem saying that he missed on a kid. They show a clip every season with him saying Dilfer is going to be a great QB.
Kiper has strong convictions, but he isn’t above laughing at himself. McShay on other hand comes off as smug and at times just makes things up.
Bernie19Kosar - April 26, 2010
maybe there is a difference with how they handle things down the road, but when talking about this season’s draft, Kiper came off as the more smug and cocky of the two.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
Mayock>Kiper>>>McShay.
If we are talking about the ESPN guys I agree, but I would much rather listen to mayock.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
Mayock said Alex Mack was the #3 center in the 2009 draft class. Alex Mack is now about the #3 center in the NFL.
jaws. - April 26, 2010
I didn’t know that. I like mayocks analysis and how he goes about it the best though I do not always agree on his assessments.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
Mayock is occasionally good, but I can’t respect anyone who put Thomas ahead of Berry or anyone ahead of Mack in the 2009 Center class.
Where are all of those people who were arguing with me about that kid from Oregon being better than Mack?
rufio - April 26, 2010
The one who went to Buffalo?
SpecialBrownie - April 26, 2010
Yes. Or the other one from Louisville. Wood?
rufio - April 26, 2010
…Sure.
SpecialBrownie - April 26, 2010
yeah. I don’t always agree with his assessments but I have slightly more respect for him than for kiper and much more than mcshay.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
Where is moon?
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
He loved Unger. In fact, that started our first argument.
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
Vinny Cerato said Mel Kiper is respected among teams and has sources with them, but McShay is an idiot and every FO laughs at him. He says McShay doesn’t really have any sources with teams.
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
It doesn’t seem those sources do him a whole lot of good, does it?
StuckInPa - April 26, 2010
is this really surprising? Kiper has earned their respect. I have heard this from many sources, not just right now.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
Kiper doesn’t either, or else he wouldn’t have looked foolish going against McShay on where Clausen would be drafted.
Roger Dorn - April 27, 2010
this was my exact thoughts while reading this
Kimble_79 - April 27, 2010
One player means everything?
TheRealSlimShady - April 27, 2010
No, but Kiper doesn’t have sources.
Roger Dorn - April 28, 2010
I’ll trust Vinny over you in this situation. Nothing personal.
TheRealSlimShady - April 30, 2010
Vinny may have a bias that we don’t know of, I have none.
Roger Dorn - April 30, 2010
Vinny also is in a front office and knows people from other FO’s.
TheRealSlimShady - May 1, 2010
Mike Lombardi used to be a GM, and he is awful. There are biases that exist because of friendships or longstanding grudges that we aren’t always aware of.
Roger Dorn - May 1, 2010
Steve Young obviously had 1 too many concussions. He just interrupts people and says the oddest things that leave everyone dumbfounded.
Does anyone know what Matt Millen said that he had to apologize for?
HenryDawg - April 26, 2010 via mobile
He was calling the Dallas WR Austin Miles about 6 straight times.
Roger Dorn - April 26, 2010
He was joking with Jaworski about being a Polack (or something to that effect), mainly in regards to having a fried baloney sandwich I think.
talonk - April 26, 2010
Is fried balogna a Polish dietary staple?
golanbatrac - April 26, 2010
it sounds pretty tasty at any rate, doesn’t it?
Dawg Nuts - April 26, 2010
It’s not bad. My grandmother used to make it.
golanbatrac - April 26, 2010
tastes a lot like a hot dog to me, but still slightly different.
notthatnoise - April 26, 2010
My mom used to make it. I recommend over regular bologna.
rufio - April 26, 2010
Same.
SpecialBrownie - April 26, 2010
Yup. I never eat regular bologna, but I’ll eat a fried bologna sandwich. My dad use to make them all the time.
Buckeye Brad - April 27, 2010
This, my mom used to make it a good bit. My wife and I still eat it occasionally for lunch.
Kimble_79 - April 27, 2010
G & R Tavern, Waldo, Ohio – Worth the trip for the fried bologna.
woodsmeister - April 26, 2010
Amazed that anyone else knew this. Rec.
drjeo - April 27, 2010
I am pleased with this draft. Haden is young and full of talent. He should only get better at the CB position as he gets more and more comfortable in that position on defense. I was VERY surprised at the pick for Ward and Hardesty. Hardesty much more than Ward. I’ve looked over as much info as I could digest on the two and I’m pretty happy we got them. Ward should start at S for us and make teams think twice about throwing over the middle. He also use to play CB so he should fair ok in coverage when needed. Hardesty looks like he “could” be a great find in this draft. He shows good hands, quick burst, and great vision in everything I’ve seen from him. And of course Colt, who I can’t believe fell to us in the 3rd. I think Colt will thrive if we implement a WCO and having a year to sit and learn behind Delhomme. Is it time for pre-season yet? I’m ready!
Kimble_79 - April 26, 2010
Just hope they didn’t throw him to S because he couldn’t cover good.
skipkirk - April 26, 2010
People can whine a bit about “reaches” but remember the biggest knocks on Ward and Hardesty is the injury concerns. Heckert is just trusting his medical staff’s evaluation of these guys and his scouts have them rated higher than what the media does. Cleveland Frowns wrote a nice article about it.
The one pick who’s potential doesn’t really excite me is Larry Asante. I don’t think he is really much of an NFL starting safety unless the Browns plan on using some unorthodox 5 db sets that use a pair of hybrid box safeties. I think the Browns let Brad Seely near the draft board and now have another special teams weapon in Seely’s toolbox.
jaws. - April 26, 2010
at the same time, in the 5th and 6th round, you either are drafting for potential or depth. you are either drafting a guy like geathers who is risky but has potential, or a guy like Asante where you know what you are getting but not a lot of upside. Asante doesn’t have a lot of upside but he can be a solid reserve.
before the draft we only had 3 safeties on our roster; Elam, Adams (who is a FS/CB and strictly a backup) and Sorenson (strictly ST and I don’t want to see him on D). not only did we need a starting safety but we did at least need one backup for depth. if we got just one safety, we would only have one reserve safety that I would ever trust on Defense (adams). you need at least too.
I think they think of asante as a depth guy who fills a roster spot. I don’t honestly think he is very much involved in their long term plans…and what is wrong with drafting a depth guy who can play on ST that late in the draft? asante was maybe the most polished and NFL ready safety left. Reshad jones might have more upside but asante can do more right away. the only other guy I would have considered in that situation was Kurt coleman…but I trust Heckert’s judgement here.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
I agree, I view Asante as a backup safety and starting special teamer, but a guy who will get in there and hit you….hard. I think this is a good thing to have and can be particularly useful is used appropriately. The Browns prior to this offseason had 1 viable secondary player under contract, the situation was dire. We have since tendered Elam, re-signed Adams, traded for Brown, and drafted 3 players that could potentially see the field in Haden, Ward, and Asante.
Roger Dorn - April 26, 2010
Has Elam not signed his tender yet? What are these guys waiting for?
TheDriveStillHurts - April 26, 2010
Others in our division are able to take S prospects that don’t seem to have much potential and make them work. Landry, Ndukwe, Zibikowski, etc. Asante is the definition of a “football player” in my book.
rufio - April 26, 2010
Ndukewe and Zibi… miss them.
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
( I miss them)
TheRealSlimShady - April 26, 2010
Memories
Memories
Villeslgr - April 27, 2010
I’m saying cuz they played for ND.
TheRealSlimShady - April 27, 2010
I know, i was just giving you the business about the whole switching team thing. I hope you stay around, personally, you have good insight and knowledge, I just have to wear my ND filter sunglasses!
Villeslgr - April 27, 2010
If you notice a pattern, its the QBs I follow.
TheRealSlimShady - April 30, 2010
I agree. Really, elam was our only full time safety and adams was kind of the FS/CB slot guy for a lot of the season. We did need 2 safeties, if not just for depth. I feel confident in our secondary and that rob ryan will again be able to generate pressure.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
strongly agree with your point about potential and depth. this guy obviously showed something that made the front office think he could contribute, which is about all you can really expect that low. if he contributes a little, good enough; if he contribues a lot, its a steal; if he does nothing, you haven’t really lost a lot. given our need at DB, this seems like the perfect kind of pick in rds. 5 – 7.
Dawg Nuts - April 26, 2010
yep. I would honestly prefer a guy like asante who is smart an experienced, than someone who might have more physical skills, but is a little raw. I just think we need depth and smarts at the position and god forbid someone gets hurt, we at least have someone who can start.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
I’m probably going to bring on a shyte storm here, but was Adams really all that bad in coverage or did he just look bad because of the length of time he had to try and maintain it? At the very least it seemed he was a decent tackler.
JustBob - April 26, 2010
Mike Adams is not all that great. Better than guys we’ve had recently like Cousin, Poteat, Ivy, etc. But honestly shouldn’t be on the roster of a playoff team IMO. We should hang on to him until it is clear younger, more talented guys are outplaying him.
rufio - April 26, 2010
In retrospect, the last paragraph of this post is not worded the way I would have liked to have worded it. I meant to say something like “If Colt McCoy becomes a legitimate starting QB for the Browns, it would go a long way towards making this draft a success”.
Mild risk as a 3rd rounder in this seemingly deep draft class, huge reward potential. If that potential is realized—and it is unlikely for any QB to succeed in the NFL—there is almost no way that this draft is a bust.
rufio - April 26, 2010
http://www.cleveland.com/podcast_files/grossi042610.mp3
Tony Grossi Comments on the browns draft. Nothing ground breaking, but interesting none the less.
Kimble_79 - April 27, 2010
Its funny how every single mock had Geathers going to the Browns and that’s exactly what happened
The Licensed Pessimist - April 27, 2010
Like Mine?
TheRealSlimShady - April 27, 2010
I’m watching the post-draft press conference right now from clevelandbrowns.com. It’s hilarious to me everytime I watch Mangini in front of the reporters. He just seems annoyed, uncomfortable, and slightly constipated the whole time. LOL
Kimble_79 - April 27, 2010
I’m content with the Haden and Hardesty picks, I love the later round picks. The only pick I have a huge problem with is the TJ Ward pick
The Licensed Pessimist - April 27, 2010
I’d have liked the faster safety at that pick, but I’m eager to be shown why that instinct is incorrect.
danvail - April 27, 2010
I wasn’t initially happy about the Ward pick, but the more I’ve learned about him, the better I like it. That’s somewhat the nature of the draft for fans, of course, but I’m now excited to see him pulverize Steelers.
drjeo - April 27, 2010
If he cleans Hines Ward’s clock, even once during a game, I will love him forever!
Kimble_79 - April 27, 2010
This!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 28, 2010
yes. instinct is the key ward. from what I have heard, ward has tremendous instincts and always seems to be around the ball and knows where it is. I would much rather have him than Taylor mays, who looks like he has never seen a football. Ward is an old school, hit you in the mouth, ballhawk. i have seen some of the stuff on youtube. he might not have elite speed but is almost always around the play b/c he has a knack for knowing where it will be.
bross09 - April 27, 2010
The patella tendon injury terrifies me. Other than that, I like Ward as a player. The argument can be made that he was a bad value at that spot.
I almost wanted Mays to be gone at that point because I just don’t think he is that good at football and passing on him there could be the kind of thing that bites you in the ass.
rufio - April 27, 2010
yes. I think a lot of the criticism may have been because people percieved mays to be a value and that the browns passed on him. I liked mays before the season but I am not as high on him as some.
bross09 - April 27, 2010
I still am “meh” on Haden, and I hope that I am wrong.
Love the Hardesty pick, don’t understand the Ward pick, and love the value on the rest. I really like Geathers.
Bernie19Kosar - April 27, 2010
In three years, Heckert is going to look like a genius for grabbing Haden a bit early. He’s going to be one of the top three players to come out of this draft. So sez golan.
golanbatrac - April 27, 2010
The addition of Haden and Brown are going to do wonders for this team. With the amount of pressure we had on the QB last year, we should’ve been top 10 in interceptions. Look for the number of picks to sky rocket this year with 3 starting caliber CBs in the backfield. And if they do manage to catch the ball, TJ’s gonna lay the wood.
StuckInPa - April 27, 2010
I hope you are right, I think you are wrong. If he can play like he did against Julio Jones, he’s on his way.
rufio - April 28, 2010
In golan’s gut we trust.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 28, 2010
I understand the ward pick and I have this gut feeling he will surprise a lot of people. My gut is telling me this won’t look like a reach at all
bross09 - April 27, 2010
Lets go Best case scenario on Haden and TJ Ward. I think best case scenario Haden is Darelle Revis and TJ Ward is Troy Polamalu. However the likelyhood of both of them reaching the best case scenario is pretty slim.
Here’s hoping that Mangini pulls some delicious player development magic on this year’s draft.
jaws. - April 27, 2010
Thank you for stating the obvious.
Buckeye Brad - April 27, 2010
I am going to go ahead and predict the NFL won’t see anyone like Polamalu for 5 years after his career is over.
rufio - April 28, 2010
The best case for Colt McCoy is future Hall of Famer, but the chances are slim.
Roger Dorn - April 28, 2010
I’ll take Colt McCoy just being good at this point haha.
emily522 - April 28, 2010
It was joke
Roger Dorn - April 28, 2010
Tonto?
Dawg Nuts - April 28, 2010
Rec. I laughed at this.
drjeo - April 30, 2010
You called?
TheRealSlimShady - April 30, 2010
Its as if someone shined a bright light into the sky…..the image in the night sky…..Clausen in his speedo’s on a boat and Quinn in the background flexing. Da, Duh, Da……hhhheeeeyyy gggguuuyyys!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGxZ2FKwQdI
at about 38 sec into it
Kimble_79 - May 2, 2010
hahahahaha….I’m going to respond to myself on this. LMAO!
Kimble_79 - May 2, 2010
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