Well at least it wasn't boring right? What did we get, and what is left? Remember fellas, this draft is only 1/7th of the way finished. We hired a GM whose best asset is finding players late that will help. So we didn't get Eric Berry. Big deal. We got 9 picks, 3 smart front office guys, and a new CB. Let's roll.
First of all, quick recap of what happened yesterday:
- Browns got a starter with their first pick. Was it the guy we wanted? Probably not, but we added a guy who most people think was the top player at his position. Top player at his position and it is a position of need for the Browns. Trust me, it could have been much worse. Speaking of worse;
- The Denver Broncos 13 months ago had Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Tony Scheffler and Peyton Hillis in one of the most exciting young offenses in the NFL. They now have Quinn/Tebow/Orton, Jabar Gaffney and Brandon Malauluana. Has a coach allowed his ego to destroy a team quicker than McDaniels? Couldn't have happened to a better team though. Speaking of teams I hate;
- The Steelers drafted a C/OG that struggles with power NT/DT in a division with Shaun Rogers and Hatoli Ngata. Sounds like a winner pick to me. By the way, anyone else notice that Maurkice Pouncey has a water buffalo for a girlfriend and open mouth kisses his brother on National TV? Sweet pick Steelers.
- The rumors about Jimmy Clausen falling were true. Has anyone checked to see if TRSS is okay?
- Please tell me that I was not the only one who caught the incredibly awkward exchange between Todd McShay and Mel Kiper before the draft discussing Jimmy Clausen. High comedy. BTW Todd McShay blamed Clausen for the loss at Michigan and the loss against UCONN. In those two games Clausen was a combined 55-87, 665 yards, 5 TD's and 0 INT's. I am not an anti-McShay guy, but holy crap man, know what you are talking about before you just start spouting stuff.
- I can't get the NFL network, but if I had it I sure as hell would not have been watching ESPN. Horrible production. We are talking about the draft desk lights not working to Berman and company not knowing when they were on-air. Also, why does ESPN need 5 people on stage? Steve Young gave me damn near nothing tonight. This is supposed to be Mel Kipers wheelhouse, yet he has to fight to get a word in. I love Gruden and TJ though.
- Can someone explain to me why we need to see the pick before it happens? I like the intrigue. I want the suspense. Instead of seeing Tebow throwing on a Broncos hat, I wanted to see and hear the crowd reaction when Goodell announced the pick. Quit showing me the pick before it happens damn it!
So now that we know what happened yesterday, where do we go from here?
There are five teams picking before us in round two. As of right now, assuming no one trades up, it goes like this:
33. St. Louis Rams - No need for a QB, phone is probably ringing off the hook right now.
34. Minnesota Vikings - Could be looking at QB, could be looking at Taylor Mays.
35. Tampa Bay Bucs - Don't need a QB, possibly could be looking WR or OL.
36. Kansas City Chiefs - Really need OL, but I could see them going Golden Tate with Weis in KC now.
37. Philadelphia Eagles - Still need safety help, maybe looking at Nate Allen or Mays if MN passes.
38. Cleveland Browns - Would be shocked if it wasn't a QB.
Top Players still available:
Player-Position-Overall Rank according to Scout
Sergio Kindle DE 21st
Charles Brown OT 27th
Daryl Washington OLB 30th
Roger Saffold OT 31st
Taylor Mays FS 33rd
Jimmy Clausen QB 35th
Lamarr Houston DT 36th
Everson Griffen DE 38th
Arrelious Benn WR 39th
Brian Price DT 40th
The top rated players according to the DBN Big Board were:
13th: Taylor Mays
15th: Jimmy Clausen
18th: Sergio Kindle
21st: Colt McCoy
24th: Golden Tate
30th: Brandon Spikes
So where do the Browns go from here? I assume that someone is going to jump in front of us for a QB. Does the front office feel strongly enough about a QB to move up? Do we kick St. Louis a pick to move up in front of Minnesota to make sure we get Jimmy Clausen or Colt McCoy? Who do you want to leave Friday night with?
I like the Haden pick. I would not like to move up to grab a QB. I would have to think that the Vikes and Chiefs could take QB’s
I would be a little tenative on taking a WR in the second round. To be honest I have no idea what the Browns will do at 37.
Grockcubs - April 23, 2010
why would the chiefs take a QB? didn’t they just grab Cassel last year?
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
Good point, they did, and they took him as their QB of the future.
Only question is if anyone grabs Clausen as BAP despite need. Obviously the Vikes could use a QB below middle age…
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
Yes, but Weis could be banging the drum loud for his QB, and Cassell’’s contract can be cut relatively cheaply after 2010 season. It’s not as if Cassell looked great last year, so a secondary option at QB is not a horrible thing.
rolub - April 23, 2010
Neither of those QB’s are going to survive if they don’t get some serious help at O-line.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 23, 2010
Ah yes, the Weiss connection. But remember how we all said KC needed a LT so desperately they’d almost certainly got OT and skip Berry?
Surely they can’t skip again?
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
a) what did cassel do last year to impress
b) they now have weiss. Weiss may want them to grab clausen b/c of his experience with him. If cassel can’t do well with those weapons in the charlie weiss (New England) offense, who do you have? brodie croyle? if cassel isn’t the long term option in that offense, they really don’t have one.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
I think there will be a QB at 37. Who we want I have no idea.
Where’s Nate Allen projected to go? If need be I wouldn’t mind trading up into the 2nd with a 3rd pick for him. Serious safety help needed.
skipkirk - April 23, 2010
To be fair
I think that was Pouncey’s mother, not his girlfriend, but it was my initial response as well.
Clinton Blankenship - April 23, 2010
I didn’t see her, but my wife said she looked like a cow.
North Coast Flea - April 23, 2010
You can see her in the link B19 provided. Think it’s his mum though.
Btw he could slaughter an orangutan with that chain around his neck.
skipkirk - April 23, 2010
Quinn/Tebow/Orton
Well, who knows about tebow just yet but yikes.
johnnyphoenix - April 23, 2010
quinn basically just got told that he’s a career backup for the NFL a la patrick ramsey….
sleepy042 - April 23, 2010
If Hillis turns into anything, then it was a great trade for the Browns.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
I think it was great regardless.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I would take (jesus I can’t believe Im saying this) Delomme, Wallace, and whomever we draft over that trio anyday.
johnnyphoenix - April 23, 2010
I can’t believe it, but This.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
I don’t see us going QB in the 2nd — at least not with our first pick. Maybe, we’d trade back into the 2d to get McCoy, but doubtful. As Steve Young said, I just don’t think this QB class, aside from Bradford, impressed our guys. I think they’d rather go with a project in later rounds and get a solid starter on D for our 2d rounder. We still are in dire need of a safety.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 23, 2010
I certainly wouldn’t mind trading back in the second or acquiring another pick.
jaws. - April 23, 2010
And after hearing Mangini and Heckert, the Haden pick grew on me. Sure, Berry would be our top choice, but the odds were never strong on getting him. Actually having 3 solid CB’s is definitely a huge improvement. We may actually have a serviceable secondary next year, which could make our D actually be respectable.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 23, 2010
What time do we start today?
If anyone does pick a QB ahead of us it should be Clausen so if we want to got QB in the high second McCoy should be there. But I agree with TDSH, this ain’t a good draft for picking up a QB.
Mays looks purely like a SS (same as Elam) and I’m not sure we want another 2nd round WR.
I wouldn’t mind going DE or OLB. Washington, Spikes or Kindle then; need to go to our draft board and look these guys up!
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
One hour earlier than yesterday.
skipkirk - April 23, 2010
Oh joy, 11:30pm on Beerday. And these are our crunch rounds.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
My top 7 players available:
McCoy
Clausen
Kindle
Benn
Asamoah
Mays
Tate
I would be really happy with any of the players above Asamoah, but I think we are in good shape heading into tomorrow. I am really excited about the 3rd round if we don’t move any of our picks.
rufio - April 23, 2010
My top 7 players available:
McCoyClausenKindle
Benn
Asamoah
Mays
Tate
J. W. - April 23, 2010
The top of my board is:
Sergio Kindle
Taylor Mays
Carlos Dunlap
Colt McCoy
Jimmy Clausen
Morgan Burnett
Nate Allen
I like Arrelious Benn…he’s just a few spots further down on my list. I’d prefer a bigger G/RT than Asamoah later on like Vladimir Ducasse or John Jerry.
I just plain don’t like Ben Tate: the “jack of all trades, master of none” type of running back scares me. There’s the chance of him being the next Priest Holmes but an even better chance of him being the next Jason Wright. (I feel the same way about Colts’ Donald Brown, to a lesser extent.) Plus, I’m with BK in that I wouldn’t take a RB on day 1 or 2 unless he’s very, very special.
Bumblyjack - April 23, 2010
Here’s the top six for the second:
1 (33) Rams
2 (34) Vikings (From Lions)
3 (35) Buccaneers
4 (36) Chiefs
5 (37) Eagles
6 (38) Browns
Looking at you guys’ lists I see one guy I really want and another that the Browns probably are targeting. I want Kindle and I’m sure Holmgren wants McCoy. We could get both. If the Rams pass on Kindle then the Browns should package up to take the Vikings’ pick. The Vikings are the only team ahead of the Browns that might take a QB. If the Browns take the Vikings’ pick then they can use it on Kindle and still draft McCoy with the #6. How does that sound?
I would love to have Benn, and Mays in the second be good, too. But I see Kindle and McCoy as bigger needs and bigger impact players.
dawgtribe - April 23, 2010
Wouldn’t we have to give up the #38 pick to get the Vikings’ pick?
Chemo - April 23, 2010
most likely…could probably package our 3rd rounders, but I don’t like that at all.
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
No, it would probably be more like a 3rd and a 5th. Need to check the value chart. Two 3rd rounders are worth more than a 2nd.
dawgtribe - April 23, 2010
No way two third round picks are worth more than the first pick of the second round.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I want nothing to do with Carlos Dunlap. Underachiever, and he would be one of the worst fits this year in our 3-4 IMO. I don’t think Burnett is all that good. Benn is a great talent who never got the hype he deserved because he played with Juice.
rufio - April 23, 2010
I’m just glad I’m not the only one impressed with Asamoah
Clinton Blankenship - April 23, 2010
My favorite thing about Asamoah is that it sounds/looks like Asomugha
sww2109 - April 23, 2010
I think he’s going to be a good NFL player. He’s got the right attitude you want in a guard and his skills are the kind that get overlooked in the pre-draft process, meaning you can probably get him on the cheap.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Without harping on it, is Benn realistic? Give me hope, somebody.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
If he’s taken ahead of our pick, someone else gets pushed down to us.
rufio - April 23, 2010
We take the next hit, so other teams will take it easy on us next year.
We have designated us rebuilding, and need to deliver on it. So who´s the next best guard?
mooncamping - April 23, 2010
We could still get Clausen! Aren’t you happy about that?
danvail - April 23, 2010
ewwwww no…dont waste a pick on clausen unless its in the 3rd round. keep getting that D going.
Red-Right-88 - April 23, 2010
I was more poking fun at his idea to trade up to #1 overall to take Clausen, but…
He won’t be around in the third. He would have made a terrible 7th pick overall. Second round? Yes, I’ll take that chance all day. I mean come on, we spent a second rounder on Veinuke last year. Get a fucking quarterback already.
danvail - April 23, 2010
No. The 2nd round has a bunch of WRs are you crazy?
SpecialBrownie - April 23, 2010
/passes out
danvail - April 23, 2010
If we get McCoy in the 3rd hairy fluff; let’s drop our second on an immediate need and get value.
DE/OLB please, unless we decide Mays can contribute.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
McCoy won’t be there either. Too many teams teams still need QBs: Oakland, Minnesota, Buffalo, Seattle, and maybe Carolina and Arizona.
Also, think both Clausen and McCoy are good values in the second. We aren’t sacrificing anything. You can get a safety, probably even a starter, in the third.
danvail - April 23, 2010
There is no way that McCoy will be available in the third. If we want to get a good QB we need to pick him high, meaning 1st round or top of the 2nd. This team is badly in need of a QB so if there are good ones available in the 2nd we have to take one. There is no reason to wait until next year.
We can get defensive players in the 3rd who can contribute. There won’t be a good QB available then.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
To all those who are saying “wait til next year”, keep in mind that is another year that we have to wait for him to develop. I’d rather see us get a QB (McCoy) in the 2nd and let him sit behind Delhomme for 2 years before we throw him to the wolves.
North Coast Flea - April 23, 2010
This, plus there is no idea where the Browns will draft next year. It seems unlikely that they would be in position to get the top-rated QB in the draft next year, doesn’t it? There’s no guarantee that they could get #2 or #3 either. Even then, they have as much “bust” risk as McCoy or Clausen, IMO. I’ve only warmed to the idea of Clausen in the last week, but I still prefer McCoy.
drjeo - April 23, 2010
I think the problem, though, is that those of saying “wait til next year” don’t like McCoy or Claussen. I don’t think either of those guys will amount to anything (not that I know anything), so I’d rather wait than waste the pick.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
i think at least one of them will be an average-to-good QB, and i think its possible both of them become great.
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
personally I think this QB class is a bit underrated and 2011 is overrated.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
bross09 - April 23, 2010
Good for the Panthers. They were due, more power to them.
mooncamping - April 24, 2010
Colt McCoy is great!
mooncamping - April 24, 2010
There are far too many good players left on the board to draft either McCoy or Clausen with our 2nd round pick. I would take Mays, Kindle, Binn, D Williams, Tate, or OL Campbell or Asomoah before I take these 2 suspect QB’s!!
Any of the players mentioned would start this year and I am not sure that either McCoy or Clausen will ever be a top 10 NFL QB.
dej1221 - April 23, 2010
Why our team couldn’t swing a deal and trade back, who knows? I’m damn disappointed that they couldn’t, and get creative with trades. I think it would be really be a botardian thing to do and draft a QB in the 2nd round. These bums just arent worth the picks, and the QB crop next year is way better. We need to address the Safety, OLB, WR, and beef up that O-line, and hopefully in the process grab a decent RB. Hopefully the rest of our draft isn’t so plain…….
J. W. - April 23, 2010
I think it would be really be a botardian thing to do and draft a QB in the 2nd round. These bums just arent worth the picks, and the QB crop next year is way better.
J. W. - April 23, 2010
I disagree. A lot.
danvail - April 23, 2010
I would have liked to have seen us trade back but it’s pretty clear why we couldn’t simply no leverage at that position. The “Big 5” had gone and there was depth at pretty much every position so nobody needed to trade up.
I’m cool with Haden.
And I think we should pick up the QB next year~ it’s unlikely the selection will be this thin after all.
I’m seriously wondering how Mays would project at FS.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
It’s not that I wouldn’t like Mays, it’s just that I think both McCoy and Clausen could do very well under Holmgren. Safety and QB are both serious needs, but quarterback is light years beyond safety in importance. Until we get the right guy there I’m not going to be happy, because the team’s ceiling is “decent”. As in, they can’t be any better than decent.
I think we’re in a great spot to get that QB of the future at a bargain basement price. We’ll probably even have our pick of two of the three highest rated QBs (though I suspect Minnesota takes one).
The reason I railed against Clausen so hard before was because I didn’t think he was worth QB-at-7th-overall money, especially when McCoy looked almost as good (possible better) and could be had later.
There’s no way Clausen lasts into the third. I’ll be very happy with either Clausen or McCoy, but really no one else. We can’t pass up the chance for a QB now, not unless Holmgren is convinced both are fatally flawed.
danvail - April 23, 2010
This has to be one of the worst years in memory for QBs, which is making Clausen & McCoy look good. We’re yet to see even how Bradford pans out!
If you can’t find anything you like, keep your wallet in your pocket.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
(Please excuse the mooncamping in my last sentence there)
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
No apologies needed
-it was well deployed.As ever, if our regime thinks the QBs on the board now are worth the gamble, then I’m with them.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 23, 2010
Second round QBs (or anyone for that matter) make peanuts. And of course we have yet to see how Bradford pans out, he was drafted yesterday. I don’t understand why you would say that…
danvail - April 23, 2010
Just highlighting we think at the moment there’s one surefire QB in the draft, Bradford hasn’t even proved that yet.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
There are no surefire anything’s in the draft. Don’t be a London Silly Ninny.
danvail - April 23, 2010
You don’t think Clausen will be a signability thing? I have a hunch his agent is going to hold out for first round money based off of early projections. I’m not saying its right, I just think it happens that way.
Fundamentals - April 23, 2010
No I don’t think that will be an issue. Holding out when you have a chance (albeit not a great one) to compete for a starting job is tremendously stupid. Witness Brady Quinn.
Besides, even if he does hold out, who cares? He would never be so stupid as to try to re-enter the draft. He’d be a 5th round pick at best if he did that.
Clausen’s best bet is to be there at training camp, get into a starting role ASAP, then leverage production into a real payday.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Especially true when he lacks the leverage a first-round pick has in negotiations.
rolub - April 23, 2010
But we need to get a QB some time. There will never, ever be a draft where we can pick a QB who is a sure thing. You have to take a chance once in a while and trust your scouting and evaluations.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Totally agree. Why not take a chance on him? We would basically be promised another below average year with Delhomme and Wallace.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Totally agree with Brad. What we hope happens next year is that the team improves. That means we likely will not be picking even this high in the draft next year. So who is the sure thing next year? Locker? Will we have any chance at him? Not likely.
Look at McCoy. By almost any measure he looks like he’ll be successful in the NFL. He satisfies the Lewin test. I like that he has actually played in way more college games than any other QB in the draft. He is a winner—Texas only lost a handful of games with McCoy as QB. He is a hard worker who still has upside.
So if we don’t pick up a QB (and I think McCoy is the right choice) where does that leave us next year? We know that Holmgren values the position highly and I believe that is the right attitude. So who will be a more sure thing than McCoy next year in the draft that we could realistically get and why? And if we don’t get one in the draft, that would leave free agency. Maybe Denver will be tired of their platoon of QBs by then and we could pick up Quinn, Orton or Tebow! (that is sarcasm by the way).
So I think this is the year and McCoy is the man. And I think Holmgren will do what is necessary to draft Colt as the Browns’ QB of the future.
Brownsyup - April 23, 2010
Every year, next year is a great class of QBs. Last year, it was going to be a great year with Clausen and Bradford, etc. Now, its gonna be great next year with Locker and Mallett, etc. I don’t want a QB, but we need to dismiss the idea that next year’s QB class will be any greater than this year or the year before…
Fundamentals - April 23, 2010
I disagree. I think it is much deeper at other positions than other years and by comparison, QB isn’t as deep so it gets this perception.
personally I rate Bradford similar as a prospect as stafford. they are different players but I honestly like Bradford a bit better. I think clausen is also more pro ready and polished than Sanchez was. freeman is a project QB who still needs a lot of work, like tebow (but with much less work). McCoy is a better pure QB prospect than pat white. Guys like Stephen McGee and Rhett Bomar were 4th and 5th round picks respectively last year but I think would go a round later this year b/c of how deep the draft is. I definitely like this QB class better than 2011.
the QBs are not bad, other positions are much better so the QBs don’t look good by comparison.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
Hey Chris, my provider doesn’t have NFLN. You can watch their coverage on NFL.com. That’s what I have been doing the last couple years. ESPN stinks.
Brownie's Year - April 23, 2010
I assume you meant to say Bernie?
Chris Pokorny - April 23, 2010
Kiper too.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Michael Crabtree got a diva clause in his rookie contract…Jimmy Clausen needs a douchebag clause.
Bumblyjack - April 23, 2010
You broke DBN again.
SpecialBrownie - April 23, 2010
I fixed it now.
Chris Pokorny - April 23, 2010
K
SpecialBrownie - April 23, 2010
My gues is either Mays or McCoy. Also, I think the Haden pick was great for what was there for us.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
They are saying he and wright will compete to start at the 2nd CB spot…all of a sudden we have a ton of CB’s. Face it we had some holes to fill and this was not an immediate one.
-why was he crying like a baby (Haden)? Too bad it wasnt pat haden.
Red-Right-88 - April 23, 2010
I think he got caught up in the moment. It actually made me feel like it was the right choice. Seeing the kid genuinely happy this team drafted him, I know there’s no emotional history (a la BQ) but I think he’s going to work his ass off for us.
Could this maybe mean the end of Brandon McDonald? Just thinking out loud.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
He’s still cheap and decent, no reason to cut him unless a no name like Francies proves himself a better option.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Which could happen.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Sure, but even then, teams will carry 5 CBs. On the other hand, we still have a lot of picks that could be CBs that could displace one or both of those two.
danvail - April 23, 2010
We will need at least 4 players who can cover WRs for our dime package. Maybe one of them is a safety, but we don’t have that safety on the roster yet. Plus, you want a spare guy in case injuries happen.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Both Haden and Wright should be competing for the #1 CB spot, and Brown should be duking it out with one of them for 2nd/3rd.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Yesterday was boring right? You guys told us months ago that we would want Berry but would probably have to settle for Haden. That’s a fine pick, of course, but I think I spent too much time reading about other scenarios.
On a related note, I’ve changed my stance on throwing games. Draft position is too valuable.
Looking forward to the rest of the draft.
dgcambridge - April 23, 2010
It was probably brought up last night but…did Maurkice Pouncey kiss a dude?
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
YES.
danvail - April 23, 2010
HA.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
We’ve gotten more Steelers trash talking fuel in the last 7-8 months than we had since Kordell Stewart was holding a Steelers clipboard, on his knees.
Awesome.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Love it. We can never get enough. After we sweep them this year (callin’ it!) it’ll be even better. Then again, something about stooping to their level makes me sick.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Any idea how tightly team stick to the point value here? I’d be all about trading our two upper 3rd rounders (point values 230 & 160) and a fifth or sixth(?) for St Louis’ 2nd round pick (pt value 580), if St. Louis is looking for more picks. Then we could pick up Kindle or Mays with that pick and McCoy with our original pick.
We have enough picks that we probably can’t keep everyone if we drafted someone at each spot, so I’d rather get a good value here than move from the 5th to the 4th or something similar. Thoughts?
Nat - April 23, 2010
I’d do that. I’d be ecstatic if we did that, actually.
danvail - April 23, 2010
I think Denver took pennies on the dollar.
rufio - April 23, 2010
I think Denver to Chucky Cheese Coins for the dollar
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
I think it’s more hilarious that they had this whole elaborate plan worked up for a while and told Tebow about it on Sunday or whenever.
DisplacedBuckeye - April 23, 2010
they took pennies on the dollar when trading down both times (especially only a 4th round for 2 spots in the first). Ozzie also got a good deal when trading down. it was basically an even points trade without the 4th rounder
bross09 - April 23, 2010
i would hug someone if we did that. having two second rounders that high would be amazing, and we would still have a third.
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
We could give them Rogers and a low pick…
NM Dawg - April 23, 2010
No thanks.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Take Kindle, Mays, Allen, or Dunlap if any are available. If McNugget or Clausen are available pass. There is a reason no one wants to pick them and neither will have an immediate impact on this team. We can take a QB next year when the crop is DEEP.
gentryholdem - April 23, 2010
First, judging a class’s talent depth a year before they’re to be drafted is sketchy business. Second, “There is a reason no one wants to pick them” is a very stupid thing to say. You could use that logic to say that we should forfeit any pick from here on out. I mean, everyone’s had a chance to pick, but no one took Kindle, Mays, Allen, or Dunlap. They must be terrible.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Why do people keep saying we can’t pick a QB because we need someone to make an immediate impact or to start right away? Why do we need this? We’re not going to make the playoffs this year, anyways, so this is precisely the time we want to draft a QB to groom him for the future.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Right. This is a golden opportunity. Jump already.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Well said, BB.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 23, 2010
We should take a QB if the evaluation is that the QB can turn into an NFL starter, one with reasonable hope of leading a playoff team. We should not just take a QB because we need it.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
I agree completely. I wasn’t saying that we needed to draft a QB just to draft a QB; I was merely providing a counterpoint to those who say we can’t take any QB because we need a player to start right away. Of course we shouldn’t take a guy if the FO doesn’t think he has a chance to be a really good QB, at least not in the 2nd round.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Yea, agree in full then. We definitely need a QB.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
That’s what I’ve been trying to say all along but my eloquence has failed me. If you can’t get the QB you like, don’t just grab the next best one and hope when we have other clear needs.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
But nobody is saying that we do that.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Dunno I think some people are saying we absolutely must pick up Clausen/ McCoy in the second.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
Well, not to nitpick but wouldn’t this sentence mean that if you don’t get the #1 guy at a position on your board, then none is worth taking? I’m sure you don’t believe that.
I think what the question is do you reach for a QB (specifically in the top of this second round) if you don’t have him at or near the top of your board. That, I think, would depend on a number of factors, but generally I would say no.
I, however, would bet that both are near the top of the Browns board. I absolutely advocate taking one of them even if there are a couple of more highly rated players available, because of the positional need and value.
danvail - April 23, 2010
This, well stated. I agree, if say Kindle is 2 spots higher than Clausen or McCoy, you reach for one of the QB’s everytime in this draft due to our needs.
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
Yup. If you have a safety or linebacker rated much higher than the QB then you take the safety or linebacker, but if it’s close then you take the QB because of positional value.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
This is pure unqualified amateur opinion of course!
Whatever rating systems the scouts use there can be a gap, a quantum step at times. This years we’ve had good DBs, Good OTs: I don’t know where that step falls.
But looks like Bradford may be a 9.5 QB and Clausen a 7.5 with McCoy close behind. Like theres a big gap there. Last year there were some nice QBs taken late first/ second weren’t there? And chances are there will be next year.
By all means if your #1 is gone get #2, but not if #2 is way behind.
I’d suspect there could be tremendous value at DB (FS for us) & OL now.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
i think the only difference here is the evaluation of the QBs. I think bradford is a 9.5 with clausen and McCoy being 8.5s. thats great value for 2nd round QBs.
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
There isn’t that much separation between Bradford and Clausen/McCoy. FWIW, Scout’s Inc. gave Bradford a 97, Clausen a 89, and McCoy a 86. I don’t see those two as being way behind Bradford.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
well, in this realm of arbitrary numbers, I would rate Kindle as about a 7.7-7.8 pass rusher and Mays as a 7.4 safety…so is taking a 7.5 QB a bad move?
bross09 - April 23, 2010
I rate the Kindle as a 9.5, the iPad as about a 6, and I give the Nook an incomplete.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
Well, to me, it does sound like some people are saying that.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
No, we’re saying that IF the Browns like either one of those QB’s — and it seems like they do, at least with McCoy — then they need to take one of them now because we have a need for a QB and we won’t be able to find a good one later. Of course, if they don’t like either one then it would be stupid to take them just because they’re a QB. I don’t think anybody is saying that.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
This. nothing wrong with having faith in the organization, and everything i’ve said is dependant upon holmgren liking mccoy.
Dawg Nuts - April 23, 2010
I don’t mean you — in fact, I specifically don’t mean you.
On the other hand, I think you’re misinterpreting the anti-QB crowd. We’re not saying the team isn’t ready for a QB (well, most of us). We’re saying we don’t like these specific QBs.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
I understand that. But any QB who’s still there in the 2nd round is going to have flaws — if he didn’t he’d have been picked in the top 10. But I see a lot of good points in both Clausen and McCoy and I think they’re both worth a gamble.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
who has proven themself in next years draft? Locker? Mallet? none of these guys are as polished as McCoy, Bradford, or even Clausen were a year ago.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
You pick players that will help your team.If Claussen is not that player in rnd 1…then hes not that player in rnd 2.There are alot of players that will help the team and claussen is not one of them……….THIS IS NOT MY TOP SEVEN LIST …BUT ARE SEVEN PLAYERS WE COULD USE….SERGIO KINDLE..NATE ALLEN..COLT MCCOY..ERIC DECKER..TAYLOR PRICE..VLADIMIR DUCASSE..TERRANCE CODY.
mopar joe - April 23, 2010
this makes no sense whatsoever.
rolub - April 23, 2010
No sense.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 23, 2010
Spent all my money on D&D starter stuff yesterday. Now I have no cents.
BrownDawg1409 - April 23, 2010
I don’t make sense. I make dollars.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I like that Haden is physical. I like it a lot. With him and Sheldon Brown, we could have 2 of the better tackling corners in the league when they are on the field together. Something even the Jets can’t say if they are throwing Cromartie out there.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
Plus he pairs up well with Wright. I’m ok with this pick. I was just a little disappointed last night because of all the magical scenarios dancing in my head.
danvail - April 23, 2010
I like the Haden pick also. Safe but what’s wrong with that? This kid will be a starter for a long time. Closes on the ball with great speed. Awesome tackler. Tackles bigger than his size would indicate.
Man if we picked up Mays now… that would be a fearsome trio in the backfield. Might be worth the price of admission just to watch those guys lay out Ward several times a game twice a year.
Brownsyup - April 23, 2010
Rec.
I don’t want to see anymore ‘highlights’ of Browns CBs getting run over because they don’t know how to tackle.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
We should run the play where Cribbs goes in motion toward the ball and then crack blocks a DL, while Thomas pulls around (the one I broke down that sprung Harrison for the long gain a few years ago).
Just run the play with Hillis, have Thomas get up to block a LB/S, and leave Cromartie unblocked. Try to make Cromartie tackle Hillis 1-on-1 in the open field.
rufio - April 23, 2010
i would like to run this play with toby gerhart getting the ball. not that i necessarily think the browns should draft him, i just think we would eat cromartie for lunch.
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
yep. Haden is compared to leon hall but I think he could be better. Hall and johnothan joseph play well together. wright is a bit like Joseph in that he has solid man instincts, good speed, a bit of a gambler, but isn’t great against the run. they are a very good CB tandem that will help that team for years.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
Since I was in a bar with and the audio on the ESPN draft broadcast was not as loud as preferred, I hope I wasn’t the only one who almost shit a brick when the broadcast came back from commercial while the Browns were on the clock, and the first image is Tebow on his cell phone.
I almost lost it.
rolub - April 23, 2010
There would have been a riot.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Then you missed all the Philly fans cheering “EA-GLES SUCK!, EA-GLES SUCK!, EA-GLES SUCK!”
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I saw that as well and yelled NO NO NO NO NO! at the top of my lungs.
North Coast Flea - April 23, 2010
I noticed this in the other thread.
rufio - April 23, 2010
My brother and I both dropped a screamin F bomb.
It was right out of a commercial.
Bernie19Kosar - April 23, 2010
True, disappointed but knowing we got a solid player, and who knows how long s brown will be effective….wright and haden…for years.
Red-Right-88 - April 23, 2010
Well, Brown has been in the league for eight years and has only missed a whole 0 games. Sure, 8 years is a long time in the league, but he’s reliable. Antoine Winfield has been around longer, been injured, and he’s still pretty good. Brown will be great.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I just saw the best picture of Claussen. Go to NFL.com and the second story is about the best players left in the draft. The picture makes me think of how sad BQ looked when he fell way back in the first round a couple years ago.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Yeah, that tops any previous pics we’ve seen of BQ or DA.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
Panthers could be interested in moving up for McCoy.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Booooo
danvail - April 23, 2010
Right. Gotta make sure we keep that from happening. McCoy is our guy. We need a QB, he’s a QB…plus he’ll be used to wearing orange :)
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
McCoy seems to be heating up on the Dawg by Nature board…. this waiting 20 hours till round two is going to be interesting….must be driving the staff nuts.
Red-Right-88 - April 23, 2010
They should’ve done rounds 1 and 2 last night. We wouldn’t be going crazy right now
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
But all of us going crazy means there will be back to back nights of good prime time ratings for the NFL, plus everyone still has Saturday to look forward to as well.
mich_n_trum84 - April 23, 2010
But admit it. Your mouth was watering at the thought of more draft last night. It was such a tease by the NFL. Well done though.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
absolutely, I was wired for more picks, especially because I will be at a Mud Hens game tonight. They planned it well.
mich_n_trum84 - April 23, 2010
I didn’t even really watch. As others said the production was terrible, the Cavs game was on and the draft is slower than baseball. I could easily follow along online and with the DBN crew.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
I think that was the point.
rufio - April 23, 2010
I can’t see this happening at all as I think they are pretty firm on starting Matt Moore. Getting McCoy would create a controversy for them that they don’t need and they would be better off with a couple of other positions considering they had no picks in the first round.
Brownsyup - April 23, 2010
I really doubt Matt Moore is going to keep the Panthers from drafting a QB if they really like the guy.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I think we gotta either trade up with St. Louis or Minnesota and grab McCoy.
Maybe we can swap seconds, swap (original) third positions and kick in a fifth? Maybe McDonald gets traded too?
BrownDawg1409 - April 23, 2010
Yeah, I am sure our phones are ringing off the hook with interest in him.
TheDriveStillHurts - April 23, 2010
No, we can stay patient. We could trade up if one of Clausen or McCoy gets picked, if we felt pressure.
danvail - April 23, 2010
I’d rather have McCoy, and so would other teams that would trade ahead of us to grab him.
BrownDawg1409 - April 23, 2010
I’m not sure about that. Clausen is more talented. McCoy is more driven. I think you’d get a split vote from across the league.
danvail - April 23, 2010
It’s still pretty well known that Holmgren likes McCoy. If a team likes McCoy too, they’ll try and trade up to get him before we get a chance.
BrownDawg1409 - April 23, 2010
What is with the irrational love affair with McNugget? Why would we trade picks to get him? He’ a 3rd string QB first year and he’s tiny.
gentryholdem - April 23, 2010
don’t get the mcnugget joke. lame.
Dawg Nuts - April 23, 2010
No, by all means, keep repeating. That’s the thing with lame jokes, the more you repeat them the more funny they get and the smarter you sound.
danvail - April 23, 2010
McCoy only gives up 6 lbs and 1.5 inches on Claussen. Tiny is not appropriate for 6’1" 216 lbs
rebuilding year - April 23, 2010
why not take the best available defender with the 2nd round pick (Kindle, Mays, Griffen), then package a combo of 3rds for whichever QB…..?
sleepy042 - April 23, 2010
I’d do it the other way around. Take McCoy with the pick, trade up to get Mays (?)
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I like this idea a lot.
Brownsyup - April 23, 2010
Someone get Holmgren on the phone, tell him what we want him to do.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Yup. I like that idea. But make sure you get the QB first.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
The idea was that no one between that pick we acquired and #6 would want a QB, so take the defender first because the defender won’t be there at 38.
danvail - April 23, 2010
I wouldn’t have a problem if Hughes was still available. But since he was taken I’d makes sure we get a QB first. Clausen at one point was considered to the top QB by some people. To be able to get him in the second is amazing
The Licensed Pessimist - April 23, 2010
Boo Claussen.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
its not that deep. he’s good, better than McCoy
The Licensed Pessimist - April 23, 2010
if I thought mays could be an effective Safety in the league, I would like this.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
They’re gonna take Mays or Kingle. Just say no to McNugget.
gentryholdem - April 23, 2010
Dude, you’re not funny or original. Stop it.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
i stopped reading at mangi- i mean McNugget.
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
Griffen would not be good for us. Serious concerns about his ability to drop into coverage.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Tebow goes to Denver at the 25’th…..so Jaws must really be Josh McDaniels! That makes perfect sense!
BrownDawg1409 - April 23, 2010
Take Mays,
and get Lefevour in the 3rd. Love Lefevour!
navycavsfan - April 23, 2010
Intersting…did he come in for a workout? or did Holmgren go see him?
Red-Right-88 - April 23, 2010
no. take a QB that has a better chance to be a pro-bowler. McCoy>>>>Lefevour.
Dawg Nuts - April 23, 2010
this.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
this and I am biased for MAC players.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
Anyone else get the sense that ESPN is really scripted? I mean, I know they have a teleprompter to go off but between picks Berman looked so confused, like he had no idea what to say. Everyone did actually.
Also, I hate when they give “clues” to who the next pick is right before the commish makes the announcement. The whole thing with showing guys on the phones right before they get picked is annoying to. Completely takes away all of the “surprise” factor.
PS Drew Brees, I suddenly dislike you. I don’t care if you were a “top 75 draft pick of all tiem” and I don’t care that you’re on the next cover of Madden. Last night wasn’t about you. Douche.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
What did Brees do?
danvail - April 23, 2010
For the Saints pick he came out and basically made a speech like he just won an Oscar. “I want to thank the fans for voting me one of the top 75 draft picks of all time. And for voting me onto the cover of Madden 11.”
Really annoyed me.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Agree to disagree I guess — I didn’t see the slightest thing wrong with it. And, it seemed like it was sort of a joke in a way regarding the Madden one (thanking them for a curse), so I found it humorous, whether it was meant to be like that or not.
Chris Pokorny - April 23, 2010
I just feel like he was trying to steal a little bit of the thunder of the draft.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I could see that if it wasn’t the last pick of the day and if he wasn’t announcing the Saints pick (i.e. if he did it when the Rams picked first or something, I’d probably think, WTF is this?)
Chris Pokorny - April 23, 2010
I have to admit though, the Steelers pick was ok. Very touching, but not in the Ben kinda way…
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
exactly. by that point, much fewer people were watching.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
I’m guessing that the NFL asked him to do that, not that he just decided to go out and make a speech when the Saints picked.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I thought it was nice.
gahnki - April 23, 2010
I thought he was just trying to thank the fans for voting for him. Draft night is usually about the fans.
rufio - April 23, 2010
listening to Dan Patrick as well? Berman has recently returned to ESPN. From the little I heard, his contract ran out and he was exploring his options, and well, they weren’t as good as DP’s were, so he’s back at ESPN. Patrick mentioned that just like in football, you need reps on live TV if you’ve been gone for a while, so that’s probably why he looked “confused”, at leas moreso than usual.
Agree on knowing the pick before the announcement. If they want to stick a camera on a guy getting “the call”, fine, but don’t show it live. Once the pick is made and he walks up, grabs a jersey and hat, shakes Rog’s hand, then go back to the footage you shot 2 minutes ago. You can still show the emotion while not ruining the anticipation of the pick itself.
rolub - April 23, 2010
definitely.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Steve Young is annoying.
Red-Right-88 - April 23, 2010
I’d rather listen to him babble about anything than the “experts” Kiper and Berman.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I was listening to Freddie Coleman via 97.1 the fan. Wasn’t too bad. :)
BrownDawg1409 - April 23, 2010
Good call. Might have to do that tonight. Stupid 6:00 start.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I’ve been saying this on here for awhile about ESPN. When I hear their personalities on ESPN and elsewhere, there is a remarkable difference in their abilities.
I also thought ESPN was incredibly unprofessional last night. Gruden was caught swearing on camera.
gahnki - April 23, 2010
Missed that part. Never really cared for him anyway. Him and his thinning hair, and Tebow love…
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
missed it. I was watching the NFL network mostly.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
And another thing! Everyone called Mike Furrey ‘Mike Fury’ again. Idiots.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Unleash the Fury, Mike.
woodsmeister - April 23, 2010
Theory on Kindle’s slide: knee problem could require microfracture surgery.
rolub - April 23, 2010
Yeah I thought I heard about that somewhere. Its a legit concern.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Take move him down a round on my board, please.
rufio - April 23, 2010
I’m going the opposite direction of everybody else on here, I think. I don’t want a skill position player right now. I want a QB drafted when there is a foundation around them and that’s a bit away yet. There are teams that are going to want to get a Clausen or McCoy. There are teams that really like one of the WRs, or even Taylor Mays. Great. Trade down. Give me an extra third, plus that teams second this year and we’re moving again. We don’t have one hole that getting Colt McCoy solves. We have a bunch of holes all over the place. I’m stunned that more people aren’t pushing for DL help. That was the biggest hole coming in for me, especially long-term. I’d love to get an RG as well in the late second/early third. Keep picking up picks, draft to get a young QB later. Honestly, in my mind, the gap between Colt McCoy and some of the later QBs (John Skelton or Tim Hiller, specifically) isn’t as great as people are making it out to be. And the risk is just so much less.
Fundamentals - April 23, 2010
Thats so crazy its absolutely worth thinking about…
but I still like taking McCoy and trading up to get Mays more.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Maybe take a shot at Terrence Cody?
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I see your point Fundamentals but you have to also realize that you have to develop the new QB into the position. As you fill the other positions if you don’t have the QB in place, then you have to insert a rookie into what you hope to be an ideal situation and then you are 100% committed. If that rookie looks bad (which is fairly likely) then what? Start over with a new rookie? You do that long enough and some of the linemen and other positions you’ve already filled for a few years are starting to be past their peak.
With some of the quality O-line picks we have made the past couple of years I think this is THE time to insert the QB and let him start to learn and develop.
Brownsyup - April 23, 2010
I agree with this. Our O-line is much more improved than the last few years. The future has to start sometime right?
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Really? Because those two picks are the only lineman I have confidence in right now. Steinbach regressed in a big way last year, IMO. The right side is nothing but question marks. St. Clair was poor, Pashos has an injury history (although I like him quite a bit, for some reason), Womack is old, etc. I don’t have near the confidence in the line that you do right now.
Fundamentals - April 23, 2010
They should shore up the right side this year and then can look to get younger at LG next year. This is the best line the Browns have had since returning.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
31 isn’t particularly old for an O-Lineman. it isn’t young but its not like this will most likely be his last season where he can start.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
If we keep waiting to build the rest of our team first before we pick a QB then we’re never going to pick a QB because we’ll always have other needs. At some point, you just have to take the gamble of picking a QB high (first or early second) and rely on your scouting and evaluation to know what they’re doing. A QS is so extrememly important to a team that adding a very good/great player at that position will help the team much more than at any other position. We need a QB and there are seemingly two good ones there we can take. We have to take one (as long as the FO likes him, of course). There is absolutely no reason to wait.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Do you honestly believe either of these two are very good/great? I see both having the potential to be average to average-plus. I don’t see either being a difference maker, which is what you are really after at QB. If our ceiling is average to average-plus, I truly believe that can be had in rounds 3-5. Frankly, I don’t think Clausen probably fits that well and I think McCoy is a 3rd or 4th round talent that is bumped up because of the fact that he simply plays QB at a big name school.
Fundamentals - April 23, 2010
Also they are the #2 and #3 on the QB board.
I’ve been asking for DL help, specifically DE (we’re fine at NT). And a proper OLB.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
We won’t be able to find a QB in rounds 3-5 that are anything close to McCoy and Clausent. As was demonstrated many times on this board, QB’s picked after the second round rarely amount to anything. So I’d rather not waste a pick on a guy who will be out of the league in 2 or 3 years. You don’t find “average” QB’s in the 3rd-5th round, you just don’t. So to say we can just find any average QB later in the draft is simply wrong.
I don’t know if McCoy or Clausen can become good NFL QB’s or not — that’s up to the FO to decide. But if they think there’s a chance they could then they need to take one of them now. There is no reason to wait.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
To illustrate my point, here are the QB’s who have been picked in rounds 3 to 5 since 2000 (I started in 2007 to make sure the players had at least two years experience).
2007
3 92 Trent Edwards
5 151 Jeff Rowe
5 174 Troy Smith
2006
3 81 Brodie Croyle
3 85 Charlie Whitehurst
5 148 Ingle Martin
5 164 Omar Jacobs
2005
3 67 Charlie Frye
3 69 Andrew Walter
3 85 David Greene
4 106 Kyle Orton
4 121 Stefan LeFors
5 145 Dan Orlovsky
5 152 Adrian McPherson
2004
3 90 Matt Schaub
4 106 Luke McCown
5 148 Craig Krenzel
2003
3 88 Dave Ragone
3 97 Chris Simms
4 110 Seneca Wallace
5 163 Brian St. Pierre
2002
3 81 Josh McCown
4 108 David Garrard
4 117 Rohan Davey
5 137 Randy Fasani
5 158 Kurt Kittner
5 163 Brandon Doman
5 164 Craig Nall
2001
4 106 Chris Weinke
4 109 Sage Rosenfels
4 125 Jesse Palmer
5 149 Mike McMahon
5 155 A.J. Feeley
2000
3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi
3 75 Chris Redman
5 163 Tee Martin
How many of these picks became average NFL starting QB’s? Not many at all. Schaub is really good. Orton is average and Garrard might be average. That’s about it. 36 picks and 3 average NFL QB’s, maybe a couple more because guys like Edwards and Whitehurst might improve. The point is that it’s very, very rare for any QB drafted that low to even become an average QB, let alone a good one.
If you want to get a good starting QB then you have to draft him high. So to say we don’t need to draft one now (if we like him) because we can find an average QB later in the draft is simply false. Of course, if the FO doesn’t like McCoy or Clausen then they shouldn’t pick them. But if they think either one is cabaple of becoming a very good QB then they need to take that chance.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Just out of curiosity, do you have a list like that for 2nd round QB’s?
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Without doing any math, the hit rate on 2nd round QBs looks pretty dreadful as well.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
The hit rate on QB’s looks bad everywhere because there are so few good QB’s in the NFL. You can find plenty of busts in the 1st round. But most good QB’s come from the 1st round and the top of the 2nd. Did you read Bernie’s study on this a few months ago?
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I did. I’m just saying, you aren’t helping your point by showing the dreadful history of late-round picks and leaving out the dreadful history of second-round picks.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
Fundamentals said 3-5. Brad replied to that.
Matt Y. - April 23, 2010
It’s not even close to the same, though. You can find plenty of good QB’s taken in the 2nd round — the percentage is much higher later rounds. Especially if you looked at only the top half of the second round, which is where we’re picking.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
That’s true, but then you’re also investing a lot more in the second round. At any rate, fundamentals was saying that the ceiling of Clausen/McCoy is average, and that you can find guys with similar ceilings after the third round. Not league-average quarterbacks, league-average ceilings.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
Come on, Clausen’s ceiling is much higher than that. He has all the tools to be a great NFL QB. He may never get there, but he’s got a much better chance than anyone you can find in the 3rd or 4th round.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
My personal favorite QB is John Skelton of Fordham. Lets compare ceilings:
Accuracy: Probably Clausen, but not by a large amount.
Arm Strength: Skelton, by a decent amount.
Reads: Clausen
Mobility: Skelton
Tell me again how much higher his ceiling is. I’m not saying that he isn’t a better prospect. I’m saying that the difference isn’t worth the two rounds of difference in the picks. Clausen’s biggest advantage is playing in a pro-style offense and adapting quickly to the pro game, from reports. If we’re looking for a QB in two years and are not playing them in that time, how much of an advantage is it to get him then?
Fundamentals - April 23, 2010
If a QB doesn’t have to work on things like under-center footwork, or other small changes from UC to Shotgun, he is free to work on other things and improve other areas of his game.
I do think the “spread” argument is a little overblown—depending on exactly what the offense was like, but it remains an advantage even if they player isn’t expected to be a day-1 starter.
I like Skelton as a late rounder, but to compare him to Clausen in terms of skill is just not realistic.
rufio - April 23, 2010
this…percentage rate is much better
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
It definitely is better than most of the rest of the draft.
bross09 - April 23, 2010
Brad, I think you’re arguing against nobody here. Here’s my take: of course the front office should pick a QB if they think they are going to be great. And if the front office takes a QB, I will trust them and be okay with it. But we don’t know what the front office thinks of those guys, other than cryptic comments Holmgren has made.
So, since I don’t know what Holmgren is thinking, all I have to go on is what I think, and I think Claussen and McCoy won’t amount to anything. Based on that, and nothing else, I would just as soon pass on both.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
I’m arguing against the person above who said he thinks we can find an “average QB” in the 3rd to 5th round. That’s just not very likely. People don’t realize how rare an average NFL starting QB is to find in the draft, let alone a good one. So the idea that we can skip one now and just pick up a guy like Pike or Hiller later who have the same talents as Clausen or McCoy is just not true.
If Clausen or McCoy can become merely a good starting QB for the Browns then that would be fantastic. We haven’t had a good starting QB in two decades. They may never be great, but it’s really, really hard to find great QB’s. If we don’t take a QB now, what’s the assurance that we can find a great QB next year? Or the year after that? If we keep passing on QB’s until we can find one who’s a sure thing to be great then we’ll never draft a QB.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I agree, if Clausen or McCoy could be merely good, I would be thrilled to have them.
Do you think they’ll be good?
Chemo - April 23, 2010
You just answered this upthread. This whole thing is disjointed, sorry.
Chemo - April 23, 2010
I can’t understand why people can be so sure that McCoy will be a bust. He definitely meets a lot of the criteria of a QB that will be successful. If you put his record against others that have been successful, it stacks up pretty well. He doesn’t come from a small conference which is significant and he has a lot of experience at the collegiate level.
It is true that if you predict bust you’ll be right most of the time just because of the fact that in a given year it is lucky if there is even one QB that will eventually be a stand out… but you have to take a chance on somebody and I think McCoy has a lot of things going for him to make one think he has the right stuff.
- Has a lot of college experience having started in around 50 games
- Has very few losses in college even though he is in a competitive conference (8 total losses). This actually translates to a record in that he has the most wins of any starting quarterback in NCAA history (45)
- Has an excellent completion percentage in every year (68, 65, 76!, 70). This along with the games started shatters the Lewin test threshold.
So the question is, what else would you be looking for in a QB? Sam Bradford’s stats don’t even look this good. McCoy is a great pickup this late in the draft. The Browns should be jumping at the chance to land him.
Brownsyup - April 23, 2010
-He was given the keys to his offense in college and had to make it run
rufio - April 23, 2010
yeah, i think my man crush developed a few days ago when someone posted a link that said McCoy had made all the pre-snap reads and was basically told to make the offense work
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
Yeah, that’s one criticism that you hear often from NFL analysts and coaches is that college QB’s don’t know how to read defense because they get so much of it called from the sidelines. If McCoy has done that himself already at Texas then he’s a big step ahead in his development, and you know that is something which he can do and won’t be a problem for him in the NFL.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I posted this on the other thread as well. Look at the stats, they don’t lie. They may not directly carry over to the NFL, but they give you a good picture.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=175772
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
This. I just don’t understand all the derogatory stuff about McCoy. So he’s not 6’5": big deal. There are lots of 6’5" QBs who suck (anybody remember Derek Anderson)? He clearly fits into the range of NFL body types, even if he is at the shorter end of the spectrum. Let’s think now: are there any successful QBs who are on the short side? Hmmm. He ran a complex college offense, had great stats, and reportedly has great intangibles as well. I think he has a chance to be very good in the NFL, based on his production thus far. There aren’t any sure things, but it appears to me that he’s very much worth the risk at this spot in the draft. Actually, I think Clausen is too; I just don’t like him.
drjeo - April 23, 2010
I absolutely both can be very good QBs, top 10, in the NFL. That’s not to say they will necessarily, but they both have much higher skill sets and ceilings than the Pikes of this draft.
McCoy’s ceiling is Brees, clear as day. Clausen’s ceiling is more like Aaron Rodgers.
I also think both, being accuracy first prospects, project well to the NFL and the Browns in particular, assuming we begin introducing more WCO elements with Holmgren’s influence.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Accuracy is underrated. I think McCoy is very good. I think Clausen has crazy upside but is also a bigger risk.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Value at this slot. I think there will be about 3 guys who could play DE for us who will be available in rd 3. Linval Joseph, Cody, Houston, Price, Cam Thomas, Atkins, Arthur Jones, Michael Neal all are still on the board, and I doubt that more than three of them go before our 2nd 3rd round pick.
The dropoff after McCoy is huge for me, and it isn’t every year that you think there is a franchise QB in the 2nd.
There are DL who could play for us in a lot of rounds every year.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Michael Smith, who is in Berea, tweeted earlier that the Browns are unlikely to take a QB early and are targeting a Safety and RB today after speaking with Holmgren.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
smokescreen
smokescreensmokescreensmokescreen
oh please be a smokescreen
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I’d be very happy with Nate Allen.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
Thats cool and all, I would be ok with it too, but I think QB is a huge need. Brad’s comment just above yours about Smith’s tweet is the perfect explaination.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Like I said somewhere else, if we aren’t sold on either QB, we should not take them just because they are good value right now.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
Thought Holmgren loved McCoy, or at least really liked him?
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I thought so as well. The MS tweet makes it interesting. I imagine if he really does love McCoy then he will be the pick here.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
Chemo - April 23, 2010
but McCoy said holmgren had called him every day since their meeting, that’d be a pretty elaborate smokescreen.
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
What do you think about Chad Jones?
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
I actually don’t know a lot about him, but if he is a legit safety would be very happy with that as well.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
I’m in the same boat but people have been saying good things the past few days. All I really know is he is listed at 6’3" 232 lbs and ran the 40 in 4.5. He’s also from LSU so he’s got that SEC pedigree.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
He’s huge and a good player, but people question how hard he will work and his love for the game because he was toying with the idea of the MLB.
He might have trouble playing “centerfield” in the NFL and he might not be able to cover smaller, quicker slot WRs in man, but he’s a legit NFL player.
rufio - April 23, 2010
I’d be ‘meh’ with Nate Allen. Obviously that is one of our biggest needs right now, but I am not overly thrilled with him as a player.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Interesting. Maybe they don’t like Clausen or McCoy, or maybe they’re really high on someone else. I would be upset if we didn’t get either of them if they were available, but we’ll see.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
i’m taking everything from ESPN guys who have spoken directly to Browns’ brass with a 5-lb bag of salt.
rolub - April 23, 2010
Smith was the only source that knew the Browns were taking Haden ahead of time. He has been speaking directly with Holmgren and Mangini.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
Good point but he also didn’t report that until the Browns were pretty much locked into it. At that point, no reason for Holmgren/Heckert/Mangini to lie.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
His tweets were reflecting corner as soon as it became clear that Berry was going to the Chiefs which is exactly how I think the Browns were thinking. No berry, then take Haden.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
At that point we were still practically locked into Haden. Seattle wasn’t going to take him. We damn sure weren’t going to take McClain (Hey Al Davis, ya blew it)
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Do you or anything think this pick could be more important than the #7? Holmgren could want other teams to think he wasn’t going to target Colt.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
This is a very real possibility.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
The Browns really had no reason to smokescreen at 7. In fact, not doing so and speaking openly to MS about that pick makes a potential smokescreen down the road more credible.
danvail - April 23, 2010
This is true and I hope they are enough of a well-oiled machine at this point to be thinking about misinformation.
rufio - April 23, 2010
smokescreen
bross09 - April 23, 2010
Wasn’t remotely a smokescreen. We did exactly as he predicted.
Roger Dorn - April 23, 2010
Michael Smith has been on target. I am impressed.
golanbatrac - April 23, 2010
They are probably telling him what they do after they call the guy to hand in the card.
rufio - April 24, 2010
Point was that he was nailing these far ahead of the picks.
Roger Dorn - April 24, 2010
yep…I wanted to believe that it was a smokescreen b/c I wanted mccoy.
bross09 - April 26, 2010
FYI — Open Thread for Day 2 is scheduled to go live at noon.
Chris Pokorny - April 23, 2010
Yeah, I don’t see a lot of work getting done today.
Monsters of the Midway - April 23, 2010
Not here! Thats for sure. lol
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Yeah, I am screwed. I have big projects due Monday and Tuesday and the draft is this weekend along with OSU’s spring game.
rufio - April 23, 2010
Yep. Gonna be a long day.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
This…I worked this morning, I’m done with that crap. This is much more entertaining, until someone walks in my office anyways.
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
I hear ya lol. I find everyone posting on both threads, so I have them open in seperate tabs…someone might get pissed.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I’ll be at the spring game, so hopefully the rain stays away. Are you going to be able to watch it on TV? Is it on the BTN?
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
I hope the rain is gone too. I’m going to be at the Spring Game, and the Crew game later that night.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I think it is on BTN. I watched it online last year because I was stuck at school doing something.
Also, you can make it through the rain. It just started snowing here.
…sign that the Tebopocalypse is near?
rufio - April 23, 2010
I think it is…EVERYONE RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Has anyone seen the movie Thirteen Days? Its about the Cuban missile crisis when the Soviets were moving weapons to Cuba.
All this deliberation makes me think of when they were arguing about the plan of action with the blockade. What do we do next? Back and forth, this and that. Really compelling stuff lol.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Finally able to get away from actual work for a few! So who are we leaning towards picking with #38? Kindle to replace Wimbley, Mays for FS, McCoy for QB, dare I say the name Clausen?
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
A little bit of everything. A lot of us like the idea of taking McCoy and trading back up to get Mays
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I would be good with that as well
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
TRSS, our bet will be decided tonight.
gahnki - April 23, 2010
what’s the bet?
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
I can’t remember what the actual bet was over, but I believe the loser gets their screen name picked by the winner or something to that effect.
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
If Thaddeus Gibson is selected before the first pick of the third round, I have the power to set TRSS’s signature for three months. If he is not, TRSS can select mine.
gahnki - April 23, 2010
He doesn’t pay back bets. He stills owes me from our bet that ND wouldn’t win 9 games this year.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
i actually think i remember this being discussed before, what does he have to do?
notthatnoise - April 23, 2010
He was supposed to post a long essay about the greatness of the Buckeyes and change his avatar to an OSU logo.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
gahnki - April 23, 2010
According to PFT, Kindle has serious medical issues.
gahnki - April 23, 2010
Right, I’m not taking a guy that needs microfracture surgery on a knee in the second round.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Agree, didn’t know that. That pulls him off my list of possibilities.
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
Prediction: Tebow hows flashes but never really pans out for Denver. Team underachieves and McDaniels gets fired because of his crazy personnel moves (Dez Bryant outperforms D. Thomas, the defense continues to have holes like swiss cheese), and Holmgren brings a “disappointing” Tebow to the browns for peanuts in a few years. Tebow flourishes under Holmgren, perhaps becoming the missing piece of a championship puzzle. (See also: the story of Steve Young)
jaws. - April 23, 2010
So, have you published any works of fiction…or is it just limited to comments here?
DisplacedBuckeye - April 23, 2010
/sigh/
jaws, jaws, jaws…you just can’t admit it can you? He is a Bronco now. Regardless of whether he pans out, he is not going to be a Cleveland Brown. I am sorry for your loss. I will send you some flowers or something.
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
I’m not sending flowers.
danvail - April 23, 2010
Make sure you sign the card like this:
Jaws,
I heard about your deep admiration and affection for me. I appreciate the support. Hope you continue to cheer for me when I play with the Broncoes.
Love always,
Tim
P.S. Jesus is cool!
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Turn this GREEN people. REC
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
Except I just realized that I spelled Broncos wrong. Doh!
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
Dan Quayle alert!
DisplacedBuckeye - April 23, 2010
I’m willing to overlook the spelling due to the hilarity of the joke though
Kimble_79 - April 23, 2010
Maybe Tebow is a bad speller.
Buckeye Brad - April 23, 2010
*speler
danvail - April 23, 2010
And for what it’s worth, Markos (founder of SBN/dailykos) just re-tweeted a shout-out I gave to Dawgs By Nature and SBN about draft coverage. Props to DBN!
DisplacedBuckeye - April 23, 2010
I love this place.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Me too.
emily522 - April 23, 2010
I hope we pick McCoy tonight! I wonder if we’re going to have to get that St. Louis pick to get him though.
emily522 - April 23, 2010
Unlikely with a hint of possibly. Not sure what Minnesota is going to do, I’m not too worried about any of the other teams ahead of us.
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
I feel like Minn. would want Clausen over McCoy.
emily522 - April 23, 2010
Thats what I’m hoping – if any team ahead of us wants a QB, they would take Jimbo over Colt .45
Andrew Tolliver - April 23, 2010
Yeah, that’s my thought: Clausen to Minn., McCoy to the Browns.
drjeo - April 23, 2010
Same.
emily522 - April 23, 2010
You guys are getting to me. McCoy this round? OK.
LondonBrown - April 23, 2010
why would we want mays when pete carroll passed on him to draft earl thomas. besides, mangini wants interchangeable safeties, and i can’t see the brain trust taking a hammer who can’t cover.
if mays was still available in the 3rd, take him and try to turn into a ILB – he did call the coverages for the DBs at USC.
barryc - April 23, 2010
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