Knowshon Moreno thinks it would be a mistake to pass on Berry
Again, these aren't all my feelings, just the flip side of the coin.
Why should we pass on what almost everyone agrees is far and away the best DB in this draft?
Even in todays pass happy NFL, safety is still not considered a high-priority position. Sure Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu may disagree, but even those two Pro Bowlers were drafted 24th and 16th respectively. In the past 10 years there have been five safeties drafted in the top ten (Laron Landry, Donte Whitner, Micheal Huff, Sean Taylor and Roy Williams). Anyone excited about that?
See of this sounds familiar to anyone. Browns hire a new employee that still has strong connections to their former team. Former team falls in love with a draft prospect. Former team wants to trade up in the draft for said prospect. Former employee works trade. Browns get out of the top ten. That was a sweet move by Mangini. I think it could happen again, but with Heckert doing the dealing instead. Eagles want to trade up.
Just for conversation, what about the 7th and 92nd pick (a total of 1,632 points on the trade chart) for the Eagles 24th, 37th and 55th picks (a total of 1,630 points on the trade chart). Browns would then have 24th, 37th, 38th, 55th, 71st and 85th pick in the first three rounds.
Just for a point of reference, on the Browns Big board the 24th ranked player is Golden Tate.
I love Eric Berry, but that is quite a haul for one player. We would still have a first rounder, plus three seconds and two thirds. We could remake the defense in the second and third rounds alone!
Eric Berry may not be great. I know, shocking. When you get by everything he does well, there is still the chance that he doesn't become the next Ed Reed. Maybe he becomes the next LaRon Landry. Good player, but far from greatness. Is a missed pick on a safety something that this franchise can risk right now? Wouldn't a safer position like offensive tackle or running back be a safer choice?
We can grab a safety like Morgan Burnett or Rashard Jones later on in the draft. No they won't give us everything that Berry does, but won't they give us enough to get by? Could you live with a secondary of Wright, Brown, Elam and Burnett if it meant we added Bryan Bulaga to the right side of the OLine for the next 10 years?
Again, I know it isn't easy passing on a freak of nature like Eric Berry, but I am guessing that the Redskins had the same thoughts when discussing LaRon Landy and the Raiders with Michael Huff. Sometimes the unpopular decision is the correct one.
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I think I somehow screwed up DBN formatting again.
I tend to agree. If we were offered that… well… crap, I’m not sure.
You know what might be the deciding factor in whether or not to accept that hypothetical Eagles trade? How does the FO feel about Colt McCoy, and where do they expect him to go.
*If they/we love him, and expect him to go to Minnesota in the first, they might take that trade. It would make a lot of sense to end up with a new QB prospect and two second rounders as opposed to an elite safety talent and a late third with no answer at QB.
*If they/we love him, but they expect him to be available, then it makes less sense. Take the elite safety, the eminently groomable value QB prospect, and move on.
*If they aren’t high on McCoy, but Clausen is available at 7 and rated highly enough to fit the slot, they may pass on Berry regardless.
*If the top three QBs are out of the picture, then that’s a hell of a discussion for the football minds that far exceed my own. As a rule for the top 12 or so, I prefer trading down unless you’re discussing an elite talent in the mold of an Adrian Peterson. I think of Berry as an elite prospect, so I take him in this scenario.
That, too, is fair. If getting #3 on my big board at #7 is the worst we get, I’ll be just fine.
I do like McCoy. I think he’s one of the rare QBs that has A) has a decent chance to land outside the first round and B) has a good chance of competing at a high level in the NFL. Especially for a team that will likely incorporate a lot of west coast offense ideas, he could do very well.
I agree. McCoy is in some ways like drew brees coming out
Scouting report for brees:
Positives: Touch passer…Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle…Very tough and mobile and effective throwing on the move…Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes…Shows good judgement and keen field vision…Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure
Negatives: Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun….Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws… Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack…Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer
To me, these are some of the very things that have been talked about with colt…same strengths and weaknesses.
I think what I think you are summarizing, is, to me, that this draft is gonna be the most exciting i can remember…i have found myself absolutely giddy with excitement, mainly because there are so many options/scenarios/players that excite me.
but that thomas, quinn, wright was a draft I loved, could have been three starters, not sure on Quinn yet.
That draft was exciting, but the Quinn thing put a huge damper on it for me on draft day. After some time I rationalized and convinced myself to be excited, but most of the scenarios I’m hoping for are far better than that draft.
I’m not trying to antagonize you or anything, but i know how you feel about that one, i just don’t know why? I’ve heard you say over and over you don’t want a first round QB. my question is, why not?
I don’t really want to draft first round QB either. My reason is that I want a more solid foundation established first. QB is the most important position once a team is in the galaxy of solid on the lines, and especially much more solid on defense.
I would be okay with a second round QB or maybe none. I want to see improvement in pass defense, pass rush, and run defense.
Oh, also meant to add that the Devil’s Advocate series gave me a longish glimpse of how hard this whole question is and how little I really know about it.
It’s a first rounder, or bust for me. BK19 has already proven that, outside the first round, guys have an EXTREMELY hard time becoming NFL starting calibur. If we trade down to 24 and pick McCoy, that’d be alright with me.
I have another theory too…Its first round or UDFA. this sounds weird but look at it.
jake Delhomme turned out to be a decent player (until 2009), Tony Romo has been good, Warner is borderline Hall of Famer, and Matt Moore could be a very good player down the road. More often than not, the UDFAs turn out to be nothing special. However, I don’t have all the #3 in front of me, but considering how many small school UDFAs have made an impact since the draft went to 7 rounds, I would say it is just as safe to take one as a UDFA as in the midrounds.
Yes UDFA’s are an exception but I kinda have a theory about them. A guy like Tony Romo comes out and people pass on him b/c they are unsure if his skills translate to the NFL. scouts really liked his skills and upside and he put up great stats. honestly, looking back it was surprising he wasn’t drafted.
the thing is, because not a ton is known about these guys, they could be great but teams pass b/c of the level of competition. they are somewhat of an unknown entity. Midrounders like pike are a very known entity but they have a major flaw in their game (like pikes noodle arm) severely hinders them from being good.
I would like to see us maybe get a guy like a Noah Shepard or Matt Nichols if we don’t get Bradford. I believe guys like this who put up very good stats in smaller conferences, can be good.
I am not saying that these guys are at all guarantees, I do think however, a guy like the guys I listed (not likely to be drafted but most scouts think they are almost guaranteed a roster spot at some point) would have about the same chance when you look at it of becoming a great QB as a guy like a tony pike. I am more advocating taking a flier on a guy in camp…I am not certain or expecting any of these guys to be a guaranteed star, but I don’t think its a bad idea to look there.
we have a very good offensive line and about an average defensive line. I think we have a foundation set already, and its time to start adding impact players.
Yea, it’s almost like Browns fans are afraid to draft the best player available because we have seen so many failures. We come up with excuses for the guy to fail before he even gets here.
QB is the most important position once a team is in the galaxy of solid on the lines,
we aren’t in the galaxy of “solid” on the lines?
If you are talking D-line we have Tuba Rubin (more than solid), Rogers (just dominant) and Robaire Smith (solid but getting older).
On the offensive side we have Joe Thomas (words can’t describe his dominance), Steinbach (very solid), Mack (excellent) and porkchop womack (solid starting guard), and Pashos at tackle (average but not "solid).
Really, one we are really a receiver and an elite QB away from truly being a very good offense. we have a very solid running game and a very good offensive line.
I would like to see improvement too on the defense maybe before we grab a QB, i am just playign devils advocate in a way to your point. We could be more solid on defense but this draft really is littered with defensive players.
QB is the most important position once a team is in the galaxy of solid on the lines, and especially much more solid on defense.
as i recall, the colts were missing a lot of key pieces at many positions; then they drafted peyton manning. a superstar QB can make up for a lot of other deficiencies.
this…as BB mentioned somewhere on here we can’t wait until we have great players at every position. Its just not practical. I also believe that we are already pretty solid on the lines.
I think that’s a fair question. Personally, I can agree with most of the reasons brought up here (such as hefty price, risk, etc).
But the main thing that would really bother me is the idea of passing up on Suh for Bradford. I think Suh is a much, much, much lower risk for the pick. He is easily the best talent I’ve ever witnessed going into a draft that I’ve ever followed. I think it would be an unbelievably bad mistake to pass up on him if he is available.
this is just completely false. DTs are maybe the riskiest position to draft high. honestly they have the highest bust rate and even the elite ones do not have an impact on the game compared to an elite QB.
DTs in the top 10 are highly risky and even if they don’t bust, they rarely have the impact on a game that a pick this high would warrant. Suh would have to basically be Warren Sapp or Kevin Williams for him to be worth the money he is given or to be worth the players you would likely pass up.
Basically: Elite QB>>>>Elite DT
If the best blocking fullback in history was in the draft and you had the foresight to know that he would be this…would you draft this player over a possible franchise QB? I would, because even the best blocking fullback only makes an impact on the game comparable to an above average QB…
Now a DT makes more of an impact than FB, but I would still take if I had the opportunity, Eli Manning over Kevin Williams (and kevin williams is all pro)
I think Suh is a much, much, much lower risk for the pick
He mentioned this but is saying Suh is much lower risk. I just plain disagree. even if he is one of the best DT players to come out in a long time, that doesn’t mean to me he is less risk.
I think it would be an unbelievably bad mistake to pass up on him if he is available.
and this makes me think “franchise QB or franchise DT”.
He mentioned things that set himself up for this really.
Simmsinns isn’t saying that a franchise DT is more valuable than a franchise QB, but that Suh has a much greater chance to become a franchise player than Bradford does. Certainly a valid argument.
he is saying however, that Bradford is a much much much higher risk than Suh.
I don’t honestly see it b/c I would never call a DT in any draft a “low risk” player.
Certainly the argument can be made that suh has a better chance at being a franchise player at the position.
However, the argument can also be made that an above average/good QB has just the same impact on the game of football as a franchise DT.
To have the impact that you would want out of this high of a pick, a QB just has to be a good or above average player for his position. For a DT to have the same impact, they have to be a franchise guy.
It was very unclear the way he worded it though that he said that. He should have just said he thinks bradford is risky for a QB. instead he goes on about how “safe” of a pick suh is compared. If he just said he thinks bradford is a risky QB, this whole thread would not have happened. It seemed like he was saying that a DT is a safe pick the way he worded it.
I can understand that opinion though, even though i personally don’t agree.
Statistically, since 1991top 16 DTs have busted at a greater rate than top 16 quarterbacks. Doesn’t mean Suh is more likely to bust, but the draft is unpredictable like that.
don’t misunderstand me, Suh is easily the safest pick in this draft and one of the best prospects in years, but i think he gets a little too much hype. You never, ever, pass on a guy you think could be a franchise QB, regardless of what else is there. to put it another way: you wouldn’t pass on Drew Brees for Albert Haynesworth.
plus the chances of him being haynesworth are not guaranteed.
I would take Drew Brees over Haynesworth.
I would also take David Carr over Ryan Sims. At least carr had a positive impact on a team at one point…
Oftentimes when you “miss” on a QB early, it is not as big as missing at DT. Until 2007, eli manning was a disappointment but I would still have taken a QB “bust” over a DT “bust” in most situations (except for an akili smith “bust”)
that guy was a man playing amongst boys, how can he not be #1? well, that is what a QB need does to a team….that is why we need to settle that need soon.
I voted trade down cos I don’t think Berry at #7 is a great deal, just the best available at the position. If Berry has gone I think trade down for sure.
and you get ridiculed and ignored by a bunch of nerds on an internet forum.
yep…people STILL listen to you talk about tebow (or troy smith or any other player you mention every minute) and think you are having something intelligent to say.
what is with the ad hominems from you anyways? did i insult the only proof you have that tim tebow is good?
The fact that people ignore you and tell you that you haven’t the slightest idea what you are talking about should clue you in to the fact that you haven’t the slightest idea what you are talking about.
I took the "douche bag" label off Clausen this morning. I heard him on the radio and he seems like a stand up guy. He declined the invitation to New York so he could spend Draft day with his grandpa who isn’t doing to well. That’s definitely the right thing to do.
What about Earl Thomas? There’s been some hype about how good Thomas is and the Browns have said virtually nothing about him. Whether Berry is available at 7 or not, the Browns could trade down to take Thomas and still get an extra pick or two in the second or third rounds.
I’d rather have Berry, but I wouldn’t be heartbroken if we drafted Thomas in the 1st. If we drafted Thomas with Berry still on the board, I might be a little upset.
I was afraid of Ngata’s perceived lack of work ethic. Do you really think he becomes a monster if he gets drafted by us and not a team with those stars on D?
Maybe not as much, but we needed a NT desperately at the time. It’s the keystone of the 3-4 and we had Jason Fisk wheezing his way to diabetes anchoring our defense. That’s why I liked Ngata and was so pissed when we gave him to the Ravens.
While Berry would be hard to pass on, I think the additional daft picks would be more beneficial. They had Sheffter and McShay looking at teams who want to trade up and the Eagles were among them, looking for safety help in particular,according to them. This being the case, I think Heckert being here gives us an advantage if the Eagles are in fact looking to move up. This draft is very deep; the more picks, the better.
Just my opinion, but 24 might be the perfect spot to get a guy like Odrick, who could play a DE spot in out 3-4, a position that is very hard to fill.
I tend to think that 20th-40th are the best picks in the draft. There are almost guaranteed to be guys who are falling to you, and the $ is better than high in the first. Not a whole lot of pressure, good tradability.
You guys have plenty of picks right now...maybe too many
It is very difficult to integrate more than 6-8 rookies into a squad in one year. I would take Baluga (sp?) and solidify your Oline. Take Tebow in the 2nd and let him sit and learn for a year. You still have a lot of chances to get several very good picks and let them get a year under their belt. I am not counting you out as anything can happen but I would look for quality, integrate that quality and add some more next draft. This year is a learning year with a .500 being probably the upper limit. Then next year the Browns and Bengals can push these out of state AFCN teams into the cellar where they have kept us for the last decade. Wouldn’t you guys love to see a Browns/Bengals AFC Champoinship game in 2011? You may not believe this but I am rooting for you guys to join us so we Ohio teams can regain our former Kosar/Anderson rivalry.
Off-topic…Brandon Spikes and Colt McCoy are going to be the steals in the draft I guarantee both of them have great careers and will be 2nd or 3rd rounders. Whichever team drafts either or both will be very pleased. I hope its the Browns but I guarantee the Pats draft one of them.
I’m not sold on Spikes, but I guess until we actually see him play in the NFL, no one can really say that he has no chance. There are a good 7-10 DE/LB to fill a LB for us that I would rather see the Browns draft.
I realize that, but the fact is we need OLB and ILB, and this being the case, there are quite a few guys I would take before him for the LB position in general.
If Spikes is there in the third we should run the card up.
This is a classic example of NFL people out thinking themselves. Dude can play. They say he can’t play three downs. Big deal, how often do we have two ILB’s on the field on third down anyways? If DQ is still here after the draft, a big if IMO, then Spikes would be a great fit next to him.
Assuming we hang on to all 3 third rounders I wouldn’t have a problem drafting him there. I’m going to coninue to hope we can land Sean Lee though. I realize some think he wouldn’t fit our system, but he’s got a nose for the ball, and is consistently making plays.
It’s probably because I’m a PSU fan, but he has great football IQ, and plays with everything he’s got, every play. After watching him throughout his college career, I feel like with his work ethic, he’d be able to adapt to do whatever is asked of him in the NFL. Again, just my opinion, which is a biased one.
he had a major injury, but no repeated, chronic injuries. also agree with AG7 above, he has good football instincts and plays hard every game, every play. i’d be happy getting him with one of our later 3rd round picks.
How long can we continue to trade down and so we need impact players and/or a franchise QB? Take Berry – end of story. When we stayed at 3 for JT – worked out.
Yeah because it made sense to get him then. With so many needs in a draft as deep as this one is, we can move back and still get a guy that can make an immediate impact, plus we would have more picks.
What’s the story with Taylor Mays then. I don’t see him going in the first round, personally. Would you guys be unhappy if we picked him up in the second?
I posted this assuming we trade back, meaning we would have multiple second round picks. So he wouldn’t be the only pick in the second round. I haven’t looked into him too much, but he is a freakish athlete. What is it that makes him too risky to pick up there?
The fact that he still can’t do what we need our safties to do: Play in coverage.
All the knocks on Mays has been his “stiff hips” and his inability to play coverage like a solid DB. He’s basically a younger version of Roy Williams (formerly of the Cowboys and Bengals). I’d rather take Kurt Coleman in the fourth or fifth, because at least he was making all kinds of plays in coverage.
Roy Williams might have had a little better instincts coming out actually and more big play ability. However, Mays has the H/W/S to surpass Williams. I am not 100% sure if his style of play and abilities are best served at the safety position.
Yeah, besides what you mentioned about the “stiff hips” it’s also been said that he doesn’t have the the instincts. It’s been said time and again about two guys in particular who are incredible athletes but their production has never matched their athleticism. One is Bruce Campbell and the other is Mays. They’’ll both be overdrafted on athleticism alone.
Lack of instincts is one; a guy that athletic at that size should be making lots of plays. Mays just doesn’t make them at the rate that you’d expect from a guy that physically talented.
In addition to potential physical limitations in coverage against NFL WRs (hips), Mays doesn’t seem that great at the technical aspects of actually covering anyone. I’d also question his ball skills.
Those are my personal observations, but I believe I share them with a lot of “experts”.
At some point Mays would become worth drafting if he were still available, but I think that point is past our pick in the 2nd round.
I think he could be a great player…just not in our system. I can see him being a pro bowl SLB in a Tampa 2 defense where he can play a medium zone and use his speed to react to running plays on the outside and play coverage.
Taylor Mays? A LB? I don’t think so, again just because he looks the part doesn’t mean he can transition. S to LB is a bit of a stretch, but that’s only my opinion.
He really isn’t much of a safety…his play on the field is more like a linebacker anyways. in a cover 2, he would be able to use his speed to kinda “freelance” in his desired “zone”. He would be a great fit for the Tampa 2 in Indy because they have a lot of smaller, quicker LBs in their Tampa 2. He isn’t that small either for their linebackers. He is pretty huge for a safety.
Really, he has a safety’s measurables (speed, jumping ability, etc…) with a Linebacker’s body and style of play. People rave about how he is terrible in coverage. this is not completely true. He is terrible in Man Coverage but he is adequate in Zone coverage where he can react to the throw and use his superior speed to make a play on the ball.
Ok, so just because he plays safety in an aggressive way means he would be a better LB? You’re assessment that he would be better as a LB, in any system is a bit of a stretch.
I am not saying he would play a better LB than safety in any system, I specifically say
He would be a great fit for the Tampa 2
I personally don’t think he really fits here, but he could. He would not fit in a 3-4 really as a LB which I did say below. Please don’t put words into my mouth that I said he could play SLB in any system. I specifically said a Tampa 2 system b/c it could emphasize his strengths.
He could also work in cincinnati as a safety b/c in Mike Zimmer’s D, he has been able to effectively mask some of the weaknesses of Roy L. Williams. Mays is compared a lot to Roy Williams. However, he is bigger, which means he is more likely to transfer to OLB smoothly.
he plays the run as good as some linebackers but severely is lacking instincts to play man, and is very succeptible as a Safety to the PA. However, for an OLB, his skills at man coverage are average. He also has great speed for an SLB and has good range for an OLB. In a Tampa 2, he’d be asked to play zone and react to the throw, which suits him better.
and I disagree with you. Indy likes undersized faster OLBs for their Tampa 2. granted they almost never draft an OLB high but he DOES fit what they look for in an OLB. He could be like Cato June for them but even better. June was a pro bowl OLB…he also happened to play safety in college.
Its not that they like them undersized, its that they place the emphasis on athleticism, and because of that a lot of other teams pass on guys they like.
thats true. They prefer athleticism and go for that over size. I figure if they play June at LB, they would play mays, but they would not pick mays in the first, at least I can’t see polian doing that.
If we were a 4-3 team I wouldn’t mind drafting him in the second and converting him into an SLB. Honestly, I think that is the best possible option for his career. He could be a dominant SLB in a cover 2. His problem in coverage truly is man coverage. he can’t play man coverage to save his life. However, he is decent in a zone where he can react to the throw and use his speed to get in position to make a play. at over 230 pounds (and reportedly close to 240) he could be dominant from the position…however he really doesn’t fit a 3-4 defense at all IMO.
KC is interesting. he is not a high upside guy but he is a guy who is experienced and polished and can step in right away. with his style of play and skills he reminds me a bit of Mike Adams. However, I believe he has better physical skills than adams does and he also is more polished of a player coming out than adams was. while I don’t think he will ever be a star, he is the kind of midround gem that you can plug into a starting job right away and he can be a very solid player for several years.
You can only have so many players on the final roster. Draft quality, we still have tons of late round picks. Take Berry, Clausen, or Bulaga and I don’t think you do anything but get better. Clausen is a much better prospect than McCoy
I don’t think we will run into any problems making room for guys we draft. The whole idea of the trade back is to get more quality picks, first 2 rounds. With a deep draft like this, we can get alot of quality players that way.
Berry at 7. If he isn’t there the ideal scenario would be a trade down but I don’t think it’s as easy as people make it out to be. If the Eagles trade up with the Chiefs then who would we trade down with? In that case I’ll just take Earl Thomas.
Packers are looking to move. Also, I don’t know that Philly makes the leap to #5, they’d probably be more likely to move forward for Earl Thomas. Hopefully Heckert can work some magic and get us in on something with them.
The Packers are looking for an OT aren’t they? They could trade up, but I don’t think they’d reach up all the way to us. Do they have the picks? They have one pick in each of the first 4 rounds. Unless they wanna send Charles Woodson over (yeah right) they don’t have much.
I’m not tryna instigate anything. I’m just trying to think of teams that might want up.
I’ve been thinking, what if Bradford, Suh, McCoy, Okung, and Berry are gone by the time it gets to us? That would leave maybe four players as trade-up targets for other teams: T. Williams, Bulaga, McClain, and/or Clausen. Teams probably wouldn’t have to trade up all the way to us to get Thomas, Spiller, Dan Williams, etc. (Unless we are considering them).
For the moment, I was just looking at teams in the top half of the 1st. The Bills might want to trade up for Clausen if they think the Raiders will take him, or if they think we will take him if we can’t trade down. (In this case, our preferences would be 1 Trade down or 2 Take Clausen). The Jaguars, if they like Clausen, might want to trade up for him to get ahead of the Bills. The Broncos might want to trade up to take McClain, perhaps to get ahead of the Dolphins, or if they think we will take McClain. The Giants might want to get ahead of the Broncos to take McClain. The Seahawks might want to trade up if they have their eyes on Clausen or a tackle who they think will be gone by 14. The Niners might want to trade up for one of the tackles, to get ahead of Oakland and Buffalo.
The Niners and Seahawks each have two first-round picks and a second-rounder, and the Broncos have the recently acquired second round pick for Marshall. So they might have the resources to feel comfortable trading up.
I’m not going out on a limb to predict anything, but these are just possibilities.
I would love to see us pick up Myron Rolle late 2nd/3rd. We have a lot of middle round picks already and there will be fine players there for us. We completely screwed up Quinn’s development. We really should let the new regime try to properly develop Claussen with the 7th pick. Watching him play last year the guy is tough and the Browns could use his attitude.
He didn’t exactly play top notch opponents last year though. Not that judgement could really be passed one way or another based on that fact, but I don’t like the idea of drafting him at 7 personally
If the eagles give us that trade, great. However I see us taking Berry if he is there. If he isn’t I really hope we trade down with someone seeking Jimmy Clausen or one of the defensive ends.
An article that compares Tebow and McCoy would be nice.
I would much rather trade doen and get Kyle Wilson later in the first round. I just think the difference between the two isn’t enough to take him at 7 and Kyle Wilson falls somewhere in the teens or possibly 20’s. If no one wants to trade at 7 though Berry is by far the best option.
He is a very solid CB and has proven he can get the job done. Sure he is getting up there in age, but he can still perform at a high level for another 3-4 years in my opinion. We have much bigger needs than CB this year.
Take the CB if he’s a good enough player. Why pass on talent when talent is there? Nickel CB is a need right now, and we’ll need a #1/#2 in a few years. Why pass on BPA to avoid taking a CB?
He isn’t the answer to our problems 5 years from now…
However, he is an excellent corner to start opposite Wright. I am very high on Wilson as a prospect, however, I don’t think he is even a guarantee to start at CB. Brown is a very good veteran QB and will have a good shot at beating out wilson in camp. Holmgren wants our first round pick to have an impact, however he isn’t going to bench Brown just so wilson can get on the field.
We eventually need to get a CB but maybe in the 2nd or 3rd rounds where we can get a guy that might take a year to develop into a #2 corner but has a lot of upside.
Unless you get him now and rotate him in as a nickel back so that he’s ready to play at a starting level once Brown goes down w/ an injury or has a talent drop off.
Honestly, if either of our starting CB’s go down, we’re back to Mc D and Mike Adams. Who wants THAT!?
I think we should get someone in this draft for CB just not someone in the FIRST ROUND.
I agree with getting a guy and playing him as a nickel back. However, you can get a guy who can be an adequate nickel in the third round. A guy like a Domonique Franks (who could drop to us), Javier Arenas, Pat Robinson, or Amari Speivey. If any of these guys have to start a few games next year, I would not be worried honestly. they are more than adequate nickels.
I wouldn’t mind going CB from the 15th pick onward IF he is the BPA.
Let the new CB learn behind Brown and Wright. Let him play some nickel. We also won’t have to be worried about a CB in the future drafts if the new one pans out alright.
I agree with Bernie. I think it would not kill us to take Berry, but if teams want to move up and there are, the Browns could fill so many more needs with extra draft picks. The Browns need an off the radar pick in the top five selections and then they will be sitting pretty. Lets say Dez Bryant or Clausen get drafted in the top 5, it would give the Browns’ pick at #7 so much more value and teams willing to trade to get the player they truly think they need. The Browns need so much , they could trade down again and again and still add much needed value while acquiring more needed draft picks.
Bernie, good analysis, I agree wholeheartedly. I wil say I will not be disappointed if we take Berry, though.
Theonly mistake is HADEN from Florida. Not what we should use the #7 pick.
I would be extremely happy about a trade down, if we could get the players that Samingro814 suggests that we could get.I think Shipley would be a great pick if we draft McCoy,the chemistry is already there,and would probably help McCoy’s confidence too.Allen I think would give us some good help at DB,Jerry could help out ol right side,McCluster another playmaker,or maybe use that pick on someone like Anthony Dixon,for a powerback.Just some thoughts from a devoted Browns fan,but I am by far no expert.GO BROWNS.I am really excited about this draft,I really hope it works out for them as a team,and for us,there great fans.
In theory, there should be one of the top five players on the Browns’ draft board available. If that’s the case then you take him. If not, then trade down.
Umm. The Eagles get Ernie Sims. Are you freaking kidding me.
The Redskins have declared Jason Campbell is on the trading block along with the #4 pick. I say we take it and declare we´ll take Jimmy Clausen over Sam Bradford. This is the strongest possible move.
Regarding Eric Berry, I think we have a not insignificant talent at strong safety already in Abe Elam. I also think that if he was commited to playing the position with a vengance, Eric Wright would do great. Would it be a brilliant idea to use Eric Berry as a free safety?
The Tennessee football site lists him as DB. The wiki, lists him as a strong safety. NFL.com lists him as a strong safety. cbssports.com lists him as a free safety. Walter football lists him as safety, simply, so does espn.com. USA Today touts him as a DB, who prefers playing safety. nfldraftscoutl.com 2010 lists him as the top free safety.
This guy´s invited to Radio City Music Hall, and he´s not even properly designated for where he should play. This is the most highly decorated Joker card in a long time.
I understand the point of this article is to play the devils advocate but one of the biggest things I think people are still overlooking for all that is great about Eric Berry is his leadership and more importantly his attitude. He is confident, nearly to the line of being cocky, but defenses need to have an attitude and something like that is contageous. I think he has the ability and attitude that will resonate through our defense and make everyone better.
Not taking anything away from Thomas mind you, from what I have seen Berry ahs wahat it takes to be a defensive leader, something in my opinion the Browns sorely lack.
In my humble opinion if hes not there at 7, trade down.
I’m on the fence with this one. If the eagles would offer us what was cited in our mock example above, I’m not sure what I would do. I agree completely with Sudsy above, however all those picks in this deep of a draft is rather tempting.
Well in that hypothetical, it is tempting. As I posted above, I think for me it would come down to how good I feel about McCoy and whether I can get him in the second. If I like him and I don’t think he’ll be around past Minnesota, I trade down and reload around him.
Yes, the possibility of filling our holes with that many picks would be too overwhelming I think for me. I agree with you, reload around Colt if this would play out and start from there.
Right, but if you’re reasonably sure he’ll be there at 39 I’d take Berry and McCoy. Or, if you aren’t that high on McCoy, you take the elite prospect and go from there.
i think there are more reasons to pass on taking berry at #7 besides the potential bust factor:
1) the money you have tied up that can’t go elsewhere
2) no guarantee that the W-L record will improve – sean taylor was the only non-bust – and the redskins went 24-38 with him until he got shot – even ed reed’s impact (drafted in the 20’s) was negligible – the ravens went 50-46 until they drafted flacco;
3) the injury factor – even if a safety does become an impact player such as polamalu – he’s missed 19 games in the last four seasons – and it’s not just him – reed, sanders and polamalu have missed 79 games in 21 combined seasons – arguably the three best safeties in the league;
4) the well run teams aren’t the ones drafting safeties in the top ten: oakland, buffalo, washington (twice) and dallas (jerry jones’ meddling) – while reed didn’t go ‘til the 20’s.
if berry (or thomas) were available in the late teen’s and we could trade to draft there – i’d be much more ok with that kind of scenario
you make some good points; however, i just think we’re so weak at safety that it has a staggering effect on our defense; also, the bust factor is less for us drafting a safety because it can’t get any worse. even half-decent performance would be a huge upgrade for us.
I like Taylor Mays better than Berry. He would be a physical force in the backfield. He would have the opposing WRs having to think about getting smacked down every play. I also think his bigger frame would be more resilient. And he still has good speed. We should be able to get him lower in the draft also… a trade down to get him (or a possibly a trade up from the 2nd round) is a real possibility.
You can be taught to be better in coverage, to have a better sense of where the ball is going, etc. but you can’t be “taught” to be 6’3" and 230 lbs when you are 5’10" and 200. I think Mays deserves serious consideration and is currently being undervalued. To me, Berry’s big claim to fame is interceptions. This is a decisive football event but it is also relatively rare vs something like a bone-jarring tackle while you are trying to receive the ball in the air. I saw some highlights in which Berry gets pulverized by a big back. Didn’t see anything like that with Mays. I think Browns fans will like him… a lot.
The man is terrible at slot coverage and coverage is much harder to teach than you think. He also is a bad tackler. Bad tackling is almost impossible to grow out of, especially at the NFL level.
Berry is just under 6’ and 212, not 5’10" and 200—not that it makes a huge difference. Have you seen the kid hit people? You can’t be taught to cover the MOF like Berry can cover it.
Berry can cover WRs, TEs, and Backs up to Brandon Jacobs’ size. He can cover any underneath zone. He can cover any deep part of the field you want. He can come up and play in the box. He can rush the QB. He can find and high point the ball. He’s fluid, he’s fast, he’s got a good burst. Being huge doesn’t mean you can do any of that. What good is being 6’3" if you aren’t making pass deflections high in the air? Berry is just far and away the more skilled player.
Thomas is a close second to Berry. Mays is a distant 3rd.
But it depends on the current makeup of your secondary. If you are looking for a hard hitting run stopper then Mays is your man. People here in Cincy are talking up Mays but I would take Thomas over Mays in a second. Of course I would prefer Berry but he will be long gone before we will have any chance at him. Thomas could possibly be there at #21- maybe. It could be that we will end up with Mays but I hope not. I don’t see any reason to take the 3rd best player at any position in the first round.
I would say Nate Allen is a distant third. I do not personally think mays can be an effective safety in the league unless he goes to a team that will ask him to play man coverage very little (almost never)
Your response interested me so I did some investigation
The result was that, yes he is clearly a more balanced safety. The report said he was a hard worker with good instincts and ball skills and is smart. He will probably be a good player. His negatives were that his max speed is only average, he struggles in man coverage, isn’t a big hitter and isn’t very quick or explosive. They, Draft Countdown, project him as a starter but they rank him lower than Mays. I think between the two we will chose Mays as Zimmer has said that it is easier to coach back agressivness than the other way around. I hope it doesn’t come to that and Thomas is still there as I rank him close to Berry. In fact I am not sure he isn’t a little better in coverage. Berry is still the first choice though. The only bad thing about having a good year is that a guy you really like has to run the gauntlet of 20 teams before you get a chance at him.Thanks bross09, Allen kind of flew under my radar.
as Zimmer has said that it is easier to coach back agressivness than the other way around.
but Zimmer doesn’t coach on the browns. that is the thing. the browns predicate themselves on smart, instinctive players on Defense. guys who have a nose for the ball and good FBI (football intelligence) and instincts in coverage. however, Mays is severely lacking on his instincts on the field. he is not the type of pick that would fit our defensive style or our defense in general, although he would fit in Cincy.
yeah. allen is flying under a lot of people’s radars. he has enough physical skills to be good but not the elite skills that the other 3 have. he might not have the upside of mays, but because of what he brings to the table, in our defense he has a much better shot at being a solid player.
I think I somehow screwed up DBN formatting again.
My bad.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
Yep, you did. It’s okay, it’s expected now.
SpecialBrownie - April 19, 2010
Lol
emily522 - April 19, 2010
Looks fine to me.
Simmsinns - April 19, 2010
Yep. The Fanpost’s are all over the place.
gahnki - April 19, 2010
This is the same problem as before wasn’t it?
Don’t you know how to fix it?
skipkirk - April 20, 2010
No idea. Chris had to fix it.
I am dumb as a football bat when it comes to formatting stuff.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
Uh-oh! Gretzky has the ball!
BrownDawg1409 - April 20, 2010
BOO FIX THE FRONT PAGE BOOOOOOOOO
danvail - April 20, 2010
this was a much tougher decision than i thought it would be. if we got that deal, i might do it, but i have a hard time imagining us getting that.
notthatnoise - April 19, 2010
I tend to agree. If we were offered that… well… crap, I’m not sure.
You know what might be the deciding factor in whether or not to accept that hypothetical Eagles trade? How does the FO feel about Colt McCoy, and where do they expect him to go.
*If they/we love him, and expect him to go to Minnesota in the first, they might take that trade. It would make a lot of sense to end up with a new QB prospect and two second rounders as opposed to an elite safety talent and a late third with no answer at QB.
*If they/we love him, but they expect him to be available, then it makes less sense. Take the elite safety, the eminently groomable value QB prospect, and move on.
*If they aren’t high on McCoy, but Clausen is available at 7 and rated highly enough to fit the slot, they may pass on Berry regardless.
*If the top three QBs are out of the picture, then that’s a hell of a discussion for the football minds that far exceed my own. As a rule for the top 12 or so, I prefer trading down unless you’re discussing an elite talent in the mold of an Adrian Peterson. I think of Berry as an elite prospect, so I take him in this scenario.
danvail - April 19, 2010
This was my thinking.
We get down to 24, take McCoy and start rebuilding the defense.
I am a huge Eric Berry fan, but I would take the Eagles deal.
I asked my brother who had a good counter point; “We already have 10 picks but we have no Eric Berry’s.”
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
My response to your brother is even simpler: “We have no QB.”
If at all possible, we need to settle that position ASAP. My whole strategy would revolve around that goal.
danvail - April 19, 2010
That is fair, he just believes that outside of Bradford, there isn’t a QB in this draft he would trade Eric Berry for.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
That, too, is fair. If getting #3 on my big board at #7 is the worst we get, I’ll be just fine.
I do like McCoy. I think he’s one of the rare QBs that has A) has a decent chance to land outside the first round and B) has a good chance of competing at a high level in the NFL. Especially for a team that will likely incorporate a lot of west coast offense ideas, he could do very well.
danvail - April 19, 2010
I agree. McCoy is in some ways like drew brees coming out
Scouting report for brees:
To me, these are some of the very things that have been talked about with colt…same strengths and weaknesses.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
If we can’t get Bradford, we better get Colt!
emily522 - April 19, 2010
yep…btw, the scouting report is Brees’ (or as emmitt smith once said brees’s’s), but it sounds just like what people have said about colt.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
I think what I think you are summarizing, is, to me, that this draft is gonna be the most exciting i can remember…i have found myself absolutely giddy with excitement, mainly because there are so many options/scenarios/players that excite me.
but that thomas, quinn, wright was a draft I loved, could have been three starters, not sure on Quinn yet.
allsides - April 20, 2010
That draft was exciting, but the Quinn thing put a huge damper on it for me on draft day. After some time I rationalized and convinced myself to be excited, but most of the scenarios I’m hoping for are far better than that draft.
danvail - April 20, 2010
we’ll find out over time bout Quinn, but so far big disappointment, just didn’t pan out.
allsides - April 20, 2010
Blasphemy.
But, I voted “No, Eric Berry at 7 is a great deal”
I don’t think he is worth trading up for.
Suh is the only player in this draft that I’d want us to trade up for.
Simmsinns - April 19, 2010
if we’re trading up, it better be bradford. just one man’s opinion.
Dawg Nuts - April 19, 2010
Agreed.
danvail - April 19, 2010
Agree to agree
SpecialBrownie - April 19, 2010
Agree to agree only if there is an agreement.
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
If the agreement is agreed upon then I will agree to agree.
dawgtribe - April 20, 2010
how could anyone disagree with that?
Dawg Nuts - April 20, 2010
I think I might at this point.
danvail - April 20, 2010
do you disagree with the original theory or do you disagree with the agreement that we’ve all previously agreed upon?
Dawg Nuts - April 20, 2010
I don’t know!
danvail - April 20, 2010
I think most people here already know how I feel about that one.
Simmsinns - April 19, 2010
I’m not trying to antagonize you or anything, but i know how you feel about that one, i just don’t know why? I’ve heard you say over and over you don’t want a first round QB. my question is, why not?
notthatnoise - April 19, 2010
I don’t really want to draft first round QB either. My reason is that I want a more solid foundation established first. QB is the most important position once a team is in the galaxy of solid on the lines, and especially much more solid on defense.
I would be okay with a second round QB or maybe none. I want to see improvement in pass defense, pass rush, and run defense.
DPS - April 19, 2010
Oh, also meant to add that the Devil’s Advocate series gave me a longish glimpse of how hard this whole question is and how little I really know about it.
DPS - April 19, 2010
It’s a first rounder, or bust for me. BK19 has already proven that, outside the first round, guys have an EXTREMELY hard time becoming NFL starting calibur. If we trade down to 24 and pick McCoy, that’d be alright with me.
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
I have another theory too…Its first round or UDFA. this sounds weird but look at it.
jake Delhomme turned out to be a decent player (until 2009), Tony Romo has been good, Warner is borderline Hall of Famer, and Matt Moore could be a very good player down the road. More often than not, the UDFAs turn out to be nothing special. However, I don’t have all the #3 in front of me, but considering how many small school UDFAs have made an impact since the draft went to 7 rounds, I would say it is just as safe to take one as a UDFA as in the midrounds.
Yes UDFA’s are an exception but I kinda have a theory about them. A guy like Tony Romo comes out and people pass on him b/c they are unsure if his skills translate to the NFL. scouts really liked his skills and upside and he put up great stats. honestly, looking back it was surprising he wasn’t drafted.
the thing is, because not a ton is known about these guys, they could be great but teams pass b/c of the level of competition. they are somewhat of an unknown entity. Midrounders like pike are a very known entity but they have a major flaw in their game (like pikes noodle arm) severely hinders them from being good.
I would like to see us maybe get a guy like a Noah Shepard or Matt Nichols if we don’t get Bradford. I believe guys like this who put up very good stats in smaller conferences, can be good.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
But when you say UDFA, you name 3-4 examples out a literally thousands of players that undrafted.
You are focusing on an incredibly small percentage.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
yes…this is true.
I am not saying that these guys are at all guarantees, I do think however, a guy like the guys I listed (not likely to be drafted but most scouts think they are almost guaranteed a roster spot at some point) would have about the same chance when you look at it of becoming a great QB as a guy like a tony pike. I am more advocating taking a flier on a guy in camp…I am not certain or expecting any of these guys to be a guaranteed star, but I don’t think its a bad idea to look there.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
we have a very good offensive line and about an average defensive line. I think we have a foundation set already, and its time to start adding impact players.
notthatnoise - April 19, 2010
This. If we wait until we have great talent everywhere else then we’ll be waiting a long time. We need a QB to take our team to the next level.
Buckeye Brad - April 19, 2010
Yea, it’s almost like Browns fans are afraid to draft the best player available because we have seen so many failures. We come up with excuses for the guy to fail before he even gets here.
Roger Dorn - April 19, 2010
Mike Junkin, anyone?
woodsmeister - April 20, 2010
we aren’t in the galaxy of “solid” on the lines?
If you are talking D-line we have Tuba Rubin (more than solid), Rogers (just dominant) and Robaire Smith (solid but getting older).
On the offensive side we have Joe Thomas (words can’t describe his dominance), Steinbach (very solid), Mack (excellent) and porkchop womack (solid starting guard), and Pashos at tackle (average but not "solid).
Really, one we are really a receiver and an elite QB away from truly being a very good offense. we have a very solid running game and a very good offensive line.
I would like to see improvement too on the defense maybe before we grab a QB, i am just playign devils advocate in a way to your point. We could be more solid on defense but this draft really is littered with defensive players.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
as i recall, the colts were missing a lot of key pieces at many positions; then they drafted peyton manning. a superstar QB can make up for a lot of other deficiencies.
Dawg Nuts - April 20, 2010
this…as BB mentioned somewhere on here we can’t wait until we have great players at every position. Its just not practical. I also believe that we are already pretty solid on the lines.
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
I think that’s a fair question. Personally, I can agree with most of the reasons brought up here (such as hefty price, risk, etc).
But the main thing that would really bother me is the idea of passing up on Suh for Bradford. I think Suh is a much, much, much lower risk for the pick. He is easily the best talent I’ve ever witnessed going into a draft that I’ve ever followed. I think it would be an unbelievably bad mistake to pass up on him if he is available.
Simmsinns - April 19, 2010
this is just completely false. DTs are maybe the riskiest position to draft high. honestly they have the highest bust rate and even the elite ones do not have an impact on the game compared to an elite QB.
DTs in the top 10 are highly risky and even if they don’t bust, they rarely have the impact on a game that a pick this high would warrant. Suh would have to basically be Warren Sapp or Kevin Williams for him to be worth the money he is given or to be worth the players you would likely pass up.
Basically: Elite QB>>>>Elite DT
If the best blocking fullback in history was in the draft and you had the foresight to know that he would be this…would you draft this player over a possible franchise QB? I would, because even the best blocking fullback only makes an impact on the game comparable to an above average QB…
Now a DT makes more of an impact than FB, but I would still take if I had the opportunity, Eli Manning over Kevin Williams (and kevin williams is all pro)
bross09 - April 19, 2010
But Simmsinns doesn’t mention any of this.
He believes that Suh is better than Bradford. Plain and simple.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
He mentioned this but is saying Suh is much lower risk. I just plain disagree. even if he is one of the best DT players to come out in a long time, that doesn’t mean to me he is less risk.
and this makes me think “franchise QB or franchise DT”.
He mentioned things that set himself up for this really.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Sigh.
Simmsinns isn’t saying that a franchise DT is more valuable than a franchise QB, but that Suh has a much greater chance to become a franchise player than Bradford does. Certainly a valid argument.
Browns town - April 19, 2010
he is saying however, that Bradford is a much much much higher risk than Suh.
I don’t honestly see it b/c I would never call a DT in any draft a “low risk” player.
Certainly the argument can be made that suh has a better chance at being a franchise player at the position.
However, the argument can also be made that an above average/good QB has just the same impact on the game of football as a franchise DT.
To have the impact that you would want out of this high of a pick, a QB just has to be a good or above average player for his position. For a DT to have the same impact, they have to be a franchise guy.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
This has nothing to do with position in this discussion. He thinks Suh will be a dominant force. He is unsure about Bradford.
Hence in his mind, Suh is a lesser risk. It is the mans opinion, pure and simple.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
Precisely. I’d respond directly, but you guys summed it up well enough.
Simmsinns - April 20, 2010
It was very unclear the way he worded it though that he said that. He should have just said he thinks bradford is risky for a QB. instead he goes on about how “safe” of a pick suh is compared. If he just said he thinks bradford is a risky QB, this whole thread would not have happened. It seemed like he was saying that a DT is a safe pick the way he worded it.
I can understand that opinion though, even though i personally don’t agree.
bross09 - April 20, 2010
No, it is not about position at all. It is about the two players themselves.
Simmsinns - April 20, 2010
yes. I said I understand that now. I was unclear the way you put it at the beginning what you meant.
bross09 - April 20, 2010
Statistically, since 1991top 16 DTs have busted at a greater rate than top 16 quarterbacks. Doesn’t mean Suh is more likely to bust, but the draft is unpredictable like that.
jaws. - April 20, 2010
True, but I personally have never seen a DT dominate like Suh did. I include Warren Sapp and Dan Wilkerson in that group.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
Player’s risk ≠ positional risk.
rufio - April 20, 2010
don’t misunderstand me, Suh is easily the safest pick in this draft and one of the best prospects in years, but i think he gets a little too much hype. You never, ever, pass on a guy you think could be a franchise QB, regardless of what else is there. to put it another way: you wouldn’t pass on Drew Brees for Albert Haynesworth.
notthatnoise - April 19, 2010
plus the chances of him being haynesworth are not guaranteed.
I would take Drew Brees over Haynesworth.
I would also take David Carr over Ryan Sims. At least carr had a positive impact on a team at one point…
Oftentimes when you “miss” on a QB early, it is not as big as missing at DT. Until 2007, eli manning was a disappointment but I would still have taken a QB “bust” over a DT “bust” in most situations (except for an akili smith “bust”)
bross09 - April 19, 2010
that guy was a man playing amongst boys, how can he not be #1? well, that is what a QB need does to a team….that is why we need to settle that need soon.
allsides - April 20, 2010
Yes.
danvail - April 20, 2010
Trade down if the opportunity presents itself.
Western Reserve - April 19, 2010
I voted trade down cos I don’t think Berry at #7 is a great deal, just the best available at the position. If Berry has gone I think trade down for sure.
LondonBrown - April 19, 2010
Trading down is tempting, but with Berry there I vote to take him.
I like this Devil’s Advocate series. More coming?
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
I too like this series.
danvail - April 19, 2010
I would like to get one more out before the draft.
Any suggestions on the topic?
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
Drafting Spiller at 7.
Roger Dorn - April 19, 2010
I don’t advocate drafting RBs high, but guy is a home run hitter and I frankly would not be surprised if I heard his name called.
Roger Dorn - April 19, 2010
That would be a tough one for me to write since I hate RB’s, but I think it would be a good topic.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
I do think Heckert likes the big play potential guys.
Roger Dorn - April 19, 2010
Dez Bryant is another. I’d hate to see us pick a WR, try to change my mind.
danvail - April 19, 2010
Why not humor Jaws and advocate the Tebow in the first two rounds?
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
I’d like seeing this.
gahnki - April 19, 2010
Indeed
SpecialBrownie - April 19, 2010
This fanpost definitely raised some good points. Might make a good foundation for a whole article.
combined with this and this I was convinced.
jaws. - April 19, 2010
wow…you quote a poorly written and researched article with another one about statistics that is completely irrelevant?
those three things combined is more useless information than my brain needs…
bross09 - April 19, 2010
You typically give more useless information than any of us need in your posts that could be considered novels.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
all you ever produce is useless information. Relax dink.
jaws. - April 19, 2010
I am relaxed…those articles however are more useless and irrational than just about anything I have written…
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Thats why they get paid money to write about football and you get ridiculed and ignored by a bunch of nerds on an internet forum.
jaws. - April 19, 2010
yep…people STILL listen to you talk about tebow (or troy smith or any other player you mention every minute) and think you are having something intelligent to say.
what is with the ad hominems from you anyways? did i insult the only proof you have that tim tebow is good?
bross09 - April 19, 2010
The fact that people ignore you and tell you that you haven’t the slightest idea what you are talking about should clue you in to the fact that you haven’t the slightest idea what you are talking about.
jaws. - April 19, 2010
right back at ya…
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Fangirl interpretation: They must be in WUV!!!! <3
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
meh…I am not into love/hate relationships…
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Nope, it’s GOTTA BE WUV!!! fan girl squealing
BrownDawg1409 - April 20, 2010
Guys, stop. This is ridiculous.
rufio - April 20, 2010
Brownie's Year - April 20, 2010
good morning chuckle over that sharp riposte.
DPS - April 20, 2010
And trust us, that is reeeeeally hard to do.
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
rec because i have no idea what a dink is
Villeslgr - April 21, 2010
Didn’t Holgren say our 1st round pick was going to start right away? Or did I misread something?
I wonder…
emily522 - April 19, 2010
bross09 - April 19, 2010
/facepalm. Of course.
emily522 - April 19, 2010
haha…I just felt a smokescreen was so appropriate…it is always funny to hear the word used outside of DBN in real life and I smile.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Taking Bryant at 7
Taking Clausen at 7
Taking an OT (Bulaga, Williams) at 7
Trading up (from 38) for Golden Tate (or Arrelious Benn, or other wideout)
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
Taking Clausen at seven is the best topic here now that you mention it.
Do that one B19.
danvail - April 19, 2010
Yup.
Buckeye Brad - April 19, 2010
I took the "douche bag" label off Clausen this morning. I heard him on the radio and he seems like a stand up guy. He declined the invitation to New York so he could spend Draft day with his grandpa who isn’t doing to well. That’s definitely the right thing to do.
Brownie's Year - April 19, 2010
That or during one of his film sessions at ND someone slipped in a tape of Quinn at the draft.
Villeslgr - April 21, 2010
No doubt.
Western Reserve - April 19, 2010
What about Earl Thomas? There’s been some hype about how good Thomas is and the Browns have said virtually nothing about him. Whether Berry is available at 7 or not, the Browns could trade down to take Thomas and still get an extra pick or two in the second or third rounds.
dawgtribe - April 20, 2010
This has certainly been discussed. Some people are big on this idea, others prefer Berry because he’s viewed as being on a different level.
danvail - April 20, 2010
I’d rather have Berry, but I wouldn’t be heartbroken if we drafted Thomas in the 1st. If we drafted Thomas with Berry still on the board, I might be a little upset.
rufio - April 20, 2010
I’d view that situation a lot like I did the Ngata/Wimbley situation – with quiet but seething skepticism.
danvail - April 20, 2010
I was afraid of Ngata’s perceived lack of work ethic. Do you really think he becomes a monster if he gets drafted by us and not a team with those stars on D?
rufio - April 20, 2010
I don’t think that fear is a good reason to pass on him.
Roger Dorn - April 20, 2010
Maybe not as much, but we needed a NT desperately at the time. It’s the keystone of the 3-4 and we had Jason Fisk wheezing his way to diabetes anchoring our defense. That’s why I liked Ngata and was so pissed when we gave him to the Ravens.
danvail - April 20, 2010
This made me laugh.
golanbatrac - April 20, 2010
It was a huge need and a position of huge value in a 3-4, no doubt.
rufio - April 20, 2010
It certainly is unfortunate to have to see him twice a year.
Western Reserve - April 20, 2010
While Berry would be hard to pass on, I think the additional daft picks would be more beneficial. They had Sheffter and McShay looking at teams who want to trade up and the Eagles were among them, looking for safety help in particular,according to them. This being the case, I think Heckert being here gives us an advantage if the Eagles are in fact looking to move up. This draft is very deep; the more picks, the better.
Just my opinion, but 24 might be the perfect spot to get a guy like Odrick, who could play a DE spot in out 3-4, a position that is very hard to fill.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
Honestly there are about 10 players I can think of that could be there at 24 that I would love to have:
Iupati, Graham, Wilson, Clausen (I really do think he is going to drop), Odrick, Jackson, Price, Pouncey, McCoy and I am sure I am leaving some out.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
I can’t see him getting past the Bills and the Raiders.
danvail - April 19, 2010
I mean, the Raiders need a better backup for Frye.
danvail - April 19, 2010
Ha!
Al Davis is probably reluctant to give up on Russell. He wants to prove himself right.
I think Gradkowski will be their starter.
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
I doubt the Raiders would take him, but yeah the Bills, Jaguars, or Seahawks (14): surely one of them will take him.
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
I tend to think that 20th-40th are the best picks in the draft. There are almost guaranteed to be guys who are falling to you, and the $ is better than high in the first. Not a whole lot of pressure, good tradability.
rufio - April 20, 2010
You guys have plenty of picks right now...maybe too many
It is very difficult to integrate more than 6-8 rookies into a squad in one year. I would take Baluga (sp?) and solidify your Oline. Take Tebow in the 2nd and let him sit and learn for a year. You still have a lot of chances to get several very good picks and let them get a year under their belt. I am not counting you out as anything can happen but I would look for quality, integrate that quality and add some more next draft. This year is a learning year with a .500 being probably the upper limit. Then next year the Browns and Bengals can push these out of state AFCN teams into the cellar where they have kept us for the last decade. Wouldn’t you guys love to see a Browns/Bengals AFC Champoinship game in 2011? You may not believe this but I am rooting for you guys to join us so we Ohio teams can regain our former Kosar/Anderson rivalry.
JUNGLEJOHN - April 20, 2010
can we trade with OAK for mike mitchell?
sleepy042 - April 19, 2010
Umm…why are the fanposts and fanshots on the front page suddenly located all the way at the bottom? They should be on the right side.
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
Because for some reason when I post stories the entire page goes to hell.
I think it has something to do with the layout of my articles.
Long story short, because I am dumb.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
I see.
It’s ok, don’t sweat it. You could be dumber.
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
Off-topic…Brandon Spikes and Colt McCoy are going to be the steals in the draft I guarantee both of them have great careers and will be 2nd or 3rd rounders. Whichever team drafts either or both will be very pleased. I hope its the Browns but I guarantee the Pats draft one of them.
Cavs4 life - April 19, 2010
as long as you guarantee it.
notthatnoise - April 19, 2010
I’m not sold on Spikes, but I guess until we actually see him play in the NFL, no one can really say that he has no chance. There are a good 7-10 DE/LB to fill a LB for us that I would rather see the Browns draft.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
Spikes would almost definitely play ILB for us, which would be an odd transition for a DE/OLB to make. Why would you take a DE/OLB to play ILB?
rufio - April 20, 2010
Why did we take Veikune?
The Licensed Pessimist - April 20, 2010
For his fluid hips and optimal gut-to-butt ratio.
golanbatrac - April 20, 2010
I think the real question is why we tried to move him inside.
rufio - April 20, 2010
I realize that, but the fact is we need OLB and ILB, and this being the case, there are quite a few guys I would take before him for the LB position in general.
AG7 - April 20, 2010
If Spikes is there in the third we should run the card up.
This is a classic example of NFL people out thinking themselves. Dude can play. They say he can’t play three downs. Big deal, how often do we have two ILB’s on the field on third down anyways? If DQ is still here after the draft, a big if IMO, then Spikes would be a great fit next to him.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
Assuming we hang on to all 3 third rounders I wouldn’t have a problem drafting him there. I’m going to coninue to hope we can land Sean Lee though. I realize some think he wouldn’t fit our system, but he’s got a nose for the ball, and is consistently making plays.
AG7 - April 20, 2010
I have little to no interest in Sean Lee. Never jumps off the tape mixed with injury concerns? Pass.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
It’s probably because I’m a PSU fan, but he has great football IQ, and plays with everything he’s got, every play. After watching him throughout his college career, I feel like with his work ethic, he’d be able to adapt to do whatever is asked of him in the NFL. Again, just my opinion, which is a biased one.
AG7 - April 20, 2010
he had a major injury, but no repeated, chronic injuries. also agree with AG7 above, he has good football instincts and plays hard every game, every play. i’d be happy getting him with one of our later 3rd round picks.
Dawg Nuts - April 21, 2010
How long can we continue to trade down and so we need impact players and/or a franchise QB? Take Berry – end of story. When we stayed at 3 for JT – worked out.
realmccoy - April 19, 2010
Yeah because it made sense to get him then. With so many needs in a draft as deep as this one is, we can move back and still get a guy that can make an immediate impact, plus we would have more picks.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
3 second rounders!? That’s gold right there!
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
I’m gonna advocate that we trade down, and for two reasons:
1) Earl Thomas (if he’s availble)
2) Kurt Coleman (the 4-5 rd projection returns to the discussion!)
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
What’s the story with Taylor Mays then. I don’t see him going in the first round, personally. Would you guys be unhappy if we picked him up in the second?
AG7 - April 19, 2010
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Hell yes.
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
I posted this assuming we trade back, meaning we would have multiple second round picks. So he wouldn’t be the only pick in the second round. I haven’t looked into him too much, but he is a freakish athlete. What is it that makes him too risky to pick up there?
AG7 - April 19, 2010
The fact that he still can’t do what we need our safties to do: Play in coverage.
All the knocks on Mays has been his “stiff hips” and his inability to play coverage like a solid DB. He’s basically a younger version of Roy Williams (formerly of the Cowboys and Bengals). I’d rather take Kurt Coleman in the fourth or fifth, because at least he was making all kinds of plays in coverage.
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
this.
Roy Williams might have had a little better instincts coming out actually and more big play ability. However, Mays has the H/W/S to surpass Williams. I am not 100% sure if his style of play and abilities are best served at the safety position.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Those aren’t all the knocks. There are more.
rufio - April 20, 2010
Yes, but those are the ones I could remember off the top of my head. Please, add more so as to cement the “No Mays” policy.
BrownDawg1409 - April 20, 2010
Yeah, besides what you mentioned about the “stiff hips” it’s also been said that he doesn’t have the the instincts. It’s been said time and again about two guys in particular who are incredible athletes but their production has never matched their athleticism. One is Bruce Campbell and the other is Mays. They’’ll both be overdrafted on athleticism alone.
I second the “No Mays” policy.
dawgtribe - April 20, 2010
Lack of instincts is one; a guy that athletic at that size should be making lots of plays. Mays just doesn’t make them at the rate that you’d expect from a guy that physically talented.
In addition to potential physical limitations in coverage against NFL WRs (hips), Mays doesn’t seem that great at the technical aspects of actually covering anyone. I’d also question his ball skills.
Those are my personal observations, but I believe I share them with a lot of “experts”.
At some point Mays would become worth drafting if he were still available, but I think that point is past our pick in the 2nd round.
rufio - April 20, 2010
if we traded back into the 20s i would not be disappointed.
notthatnoise - April 19, 2010
I think he could be a great player…just not in our system. I can see him being a pro bowl SLB in a Tampa 2 defense where he can play a medium zone and use his speed to react to running plays on the outside and play coverage.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Taylor Mays? A LB? I don’t think so, again just because he looks the part doesn’t mean he can transition. S to LB is a bit of a stretch, but that’s only my opinion.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
He really isn’t much of a safety…his play on the field is more like a linebacker anyways. in a cover 2, he would be able to use his speed to kinda “freelance” in his desired “zone”. He would be a great fit for the Tampa 2 in Indy because they have a lot of smaller, quicker LBs in their Tampa 2. He isn’t that small either for their linebackers. He is pretty huge for a safety.
Really, he has a safety’s measurables (speed, jumping ability, etc…) with a Linebacker’s body and style of play. People rave about how he is terrible in coverage. this is not completely true. He is terrible in Man Coverage but he is adequate in Zone coverage where he can react to the throw and use his superior speed to make a play on the ball.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Ok, so just because he plays safety in an aggressive way means he would be a better LB? You’re assessment that he would be better as a LB, in any system is a bit of a stretch.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
I am not saying he would play a better LB than safety in any system, I specifically say
I personally don’t think he really fits here, but he could. He would not fit in a 3-4 really as a LB which I did say below. Please don’t put words into my mouth that I said he could play SLB in any system. I specifically said a Tampa 2 system b/c it could emphasize his strengths.
He could also work in cincinnati as a safety b/c in Mike Zimmer’s D, he has been able to effectively mask some of the weaknesses of Roy L. Williams. Mays is compared a lot to Roy Williams. However, he is bigger, which means he is more likely to transfer to OLB smoothly.
he plays the run as good as some linebackers but severely is lacking instincts to play man, and is very succeptible as a Safety to the PA. However, for an OLB, his skills at man coverage are average. He also has great speed for an SLB and has good range for an OLB. In a Tampa 2, he’d be asked to play zone and react to the throw, which suits him better.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
What I was saying is that in NO system would that be a good idea, including your Tampa 2 suggestion
AG7 - April 20, 2010
you have dared to invoke the power of Bross09
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
and I disagree with you. Indy likes undersized faster OLBs for their Tampa 2. granted they almost never draft an OLB high but he DOES fit what they look for in an OLB. He could be like Cato June for them but even better. June was a pro bowl OLB…he also happened to play safety in college.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=59478&draftyear=2003&genpos=SS
and the same website also lists OLB as a secondary position for Mays.
If Mays isn’t a good fit, Cato June certainly isn’t. the problem is he was an all pro Linebacker in Indy.
bross09 - April 20, 2010
you should use that picture for your screen pic over to the right
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
I might consider it…
bross09 - April 20, 2010
Its not that they like them undersized, its that they place the emphasis on athleticism, and because of that a lot of other teams pass on guys they like.
Subtle, but it makes a difference.
rufio - April 20, 2010
thats true. They prefer athleticism and go for that over size. I figure if they play June at LB, they would play mays, but they would not pick mays in the first, at least I can’t see polian doing that.
bross09 - April 20, 2010
LB to S is way more reasonable. The other way around is a rare occasion.
Brownie's Year - April 19, 2010
I seem to remember someone asking if Maiava could do that on a post-game talk show. That’s not my suggestion, I’m just saying.
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
I honestly cannot remember the last player to do that.
Then again, I can’t remember a college safety with Taylor Mays size.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
I never said that either switch was illogical.
Mays is a big boy. He could be that "rare occasion".
Brownie's Year - April 20, 2010
There was a kid from Bama who transitioned to LB last year, I think. Not sure how he is doing.
rufio - April 20, 2010
If we were a 4-3 team I wouldn’t mind drafting him in the second and converting him into an SLB. Honestly, I think that is the best possible option for his career. He could be a dominant SLB in a cover 2. His problem in coverage truly is man coverage. he can’t play man coverage to save his life. However, he is decent in a zone where he can react to the throw and use his speed to get in position to make a play. at over 230 pounds (and reportedly close to 240) he could be dominant from the position…however he really doesn’t fit a 3-4 defense at all IMO.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
KC is interesting. he is not a high upside guy but he is a guy who is experienced and polished and can step in right away. with his style of play and skills he reminds me a bit of Mike Adams. However, I believe he has better physical skills than adams does and he also is more polished of a player coming out than adams was. while I don’t think he will ever be a star, he is the kind of midround gem that you can plug into a starting job right away and he can be a very solid player for several years.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
You can only have so many players on the final roster. Draft quality, we still have tons of late round picks. Take Berry, Clausen, or Bulaga and I don’t think you do anything but get better. Clausen is a much better prospect than McCoy
HenryDawg - April 19, 2010 via mobile
I don’t think we will run into any problems making room for guys we draft. The whole idea of the trade back is to get more quality picks, first 2 rounds. With a deep draft like this, we can get alot of quality players that way.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
If we were able to do the trade, we would have ammo to trade into next years draft, or back into the first round as well.
Just because we have 10 picks, doesn’t mean we will pick 10 times. I would trade a second rounder for a next years first rounder 100 out of 100 times.
Bernie19Kosar - April 19, 2010
If Berry isn’t there, just trade back and save some money.
Brownie's Year - April 19, 2010
Berry at 7. If he isn’t there the ideal scenario would be a trade down but I don’t think it’s as easy as people make it out to be. If the Eagles trade up with the Chiefs then who would we trade down with? In that case I’ll just take Earl Thomas.
skipkirk - April 19, 2010
Packers are looking to move. Also, I don’t know that Philly makes the leap to #5, they’d probably be more likely to move forward for Earl Thomas. Hopefully Heckert can work some magic and get us in on something with them.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
The Packers are looking for an OT aren’t they? They could trade up, but I don’t think they’d reach up all the way to us. Do they have the picks? They have one pick in each of the first 4 rounds. Unless they wanna send Charles Woodson over (yeah right) they don’t have much.
I’m not tryna instigate anything. I’m just trying to think of teams that might want up.
skipkirk - April 19, 2010
I’ve been thinking, what if Bradford, Suh, McCoy, Okung, and Berry are gone by the time it gets to us? That would leave maybe four players as trade-up targets for other teams: T. Williams, Bulaga, McClain, and/or Clausen. Teams probably wouldn’t have to trade up all the way to us to get Thomas, Spiller, Dan Williams, etc. (Unless we are considering them).
For the moment, I was just looking at teams in the top half of the 1st. The Bills might want to trade up for Clausen if they think the Raiders will take him, or if they think we will take him if we can’t trade down. (In this case, our preferences would be 1 Trade down or 2 Take Clausen). The Jaguars, if they like Clausen, might want to trade up for him to get ahead of the Bills. The Broncos might want to trade up to take McClain, perhaps to get ahead of the Dolphins, or if they think we will take McClain. The Giants might want to get ahead of the Broncos to take McClain. The Seahawks might want to trade up if they have their eyes on Clausen or a tackle who they think will be gone by 14. The Niners might want to trade up for one of the tackles, to get ahead of Oakland and Buffalo.
The Niners and Seahawks each have two first-round picks and a second-rounder, and the Broncos have the recently acquired second round pick for Marshall. So they might have the resources to feel comfortable trading up.
I’m not going out on a limb to predict anything, but these are just possibilities.
Matt Y. - April 19, 2010
Great. I’m trying to think of who might want up as well.
skipkirk - April 20, 2010
I would love to see us pick up Myron Rolle late 2nd/3rd. We have a lot of middle round picks already and there will be fine players there for us. We completely screwed up Quinn’s development. We really should let the new regime try to properly develop Claussen with the 7th pick. Watching him play last year the guy is tough and the Browns could use his attitude.
HenryDawg - April 19, 2010 via mobile
He didn’t exactly play top notch opponents last year though. Not that judgement could really be passed one way or another based on that fact, but I don’t like the idea of drafting him at 7 personally
AG7 - April 19, 2010
Rolle will go 5th round at highest.
Roger Dorn - April 19, 2010
Did you see him on ESPN today?
He was wearing an ascot tie. I know it means absolutely nothing, but I don’t want my football players wearing an ascot tie.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
We are in agreement. I don’t want any Browns player taking fashion cues from Peter Bogdonovich, George Stevens and Fred Jones.
golanbatrac - April 20, 2010
Maybe he could play football for Aston Villa.
woodsmeister - April 20, 2010
If the eagles give us that trade, great. However I see us taking Berry if he is there. If he isn’t I really hope we trade down with someone seeking Jimmy Clausen or one of the defensive ends.
An article that compares Tebow and McCoy would be nice.
jaws. - April 19, 2010
That trade down seems pretty good indeed. I think I’d do it. Berry is great though, definitely the best option at #7.
King Tony - April 19, 2010
I would much rather trade doen and get Kyle Wilson later in the first round. I just think the difference between the two isn’t enough to take him at 7 and Kyle Wilson falls somewhere in the teens or possibly 20’s. If no one wants to trade at 7 though Berry is by far the best option.
JBrownFan - April 19, 2010
I don’t see why we would go CB in the first now that we’ve got Sheldon Brown.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
i dont believe he is the answer to our problems
JBrownFan - April 19, 2010
He is a very solid CB and has proven he can get the job done. Sure he is getting up there in age, but he can still perform at a high level for another 3-4 years in my opinion. We have much bigger needs than CB this year.
AG7 - April 19, 2010
I would say 2-3…but still, This.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Take the CB if he’s a good enough player. Why pass on talent when talent is there? Nickel CB is a need right now, and we’ll need a #1/#2 in a few years. Why pass on BPA to avoid taking a CB?
rufio - April 20, 2010
Valid point, but I’m not so sure Kyle Wilson will be the best available player at that point in the draft.
AG7 - April 20, 2010
I’ve read a lot of articles about him climbing up the board lately. But then again, what can you believe right before draft day.
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
Anything I read after April 1st I consider to be probably false.
Bernie19Kosar - April 20, 2010
I’ve read some places that he might actually be the first CB taken
The Licensed Pessimist - April 20, 2010
I’m not that high on him, but others might be. I think there would probably be better players available, but we aren’t at that point yet.
rufio - April 20, 2010
I agree with BPA but this started with someone implying that they advocate trading down Specifically for Kyle Wilson.
bross09 - April 20, 2010
I would not trade down specifically for anyone but McCoy or Thomas in the first. McCoy>Thomas in that order.
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
I agree.
bross09 - April 20, 2010
He isn’t the answer to our problems 5 years from now…
However, he is an excellent corner to start opposite Wright. I am very high on Wilson as a prospect, however, I don’t think he is even a guarantee to start at CB. Brown is a very good veteran QB and will have a good shot at beating out wilson in camp. Holmgren wants our first round pick to have an impact, however he isn’t going to bench Brown just so wilson can get on the field.
We eventually need to get a CB but maybe in the 2nd or 3rd rounds where we can get a guy that might take a year to develop into a #2 corner but has a lot of upside.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
Unless you get him now and rotate him in as a nickel back so that he’s ready to play at a starting level once Brown goes down w/ an injury or has a talent drop off.
Honestly, if either of our starting CB’s go down, we’re back to Mc D and Mike Adams. Who wants THAT!?
BrownDawg1409 - April 19, 2010
I would not hate it if we have Adams as a nickel.
I think we should get someone in this draft for CB just not someone in the FIRST ROUND.
I agree with getting a guy and playing him as a nickel back. However, you can get a guy who can be an adequate nickel in the third round. A guy like a Domonique Franks (who could drop to us), Javier Arenas, Pat Robinson, or Amari Speivey. If any of these guys have to start a few games next year, I would not be worried honestly. they are more than adequate nickels.
bross09 - April 19, 2010
I wouldn’t mind going CB from the 15th pick onward IF he is the BPA.
Let the new CB learn behind Brown and Wright. Let him play some nickel. We also won’t have to be worried about a CB in the future drafts if the new one pans out alright.
skipkirk - April 19, 2010
Berry not draftable
I agree with Bernie. I think it would not kill us to take Berry, but if teams want to move up and there are, the Browns could fill so many more needs with extra draft picks. The Browns need an off the radar pick in the top five selections and then they will be sitting pretty. Lets say Dez Bryant or Clausen get drafted in the top 5, it would give the Browns’ pick at #7 so much more value and teams willing to trade to get the player they truly think they need. The Browns need so much , they could trade down again and again and still add much needed value while acquiring more needed draft picks.
Bernie, good analysis, I agree wholeheartedly. I wil say I will not be disappointed if we take Berry, though.
Theonly mistake is HADEN from Florida. Not what we should use the #7 pick.
I still like McClain from Alabama
champion64 - April 19, 2010
I definitely would make the trade
24th – Jared Odrick
37th – Nate Allen
38th – Colt McCoy
55th – Dexter McCluster
71st – John Jerry
85th – Jordan Shipley
SamIngro814 - April 19, 2010
Samingro14.TRADE
I would be extremely happy about a trade down, if we could get the players that Samingro814 suggests that we could get.I think Shipley would be a great pick if we draft McCoy,the chemistry is already there,and would probably help McCoy’s confidence too.Allen I think would give us some good help at DB,Jerry could help out ol right side,McCluster another playmaker,or maybe use that pick on someone like Anthony Dixon,for a powerback.Just some thoughts from a devoted Browns fan,but I am by far no expert.GO BROWNS.I am really excited about this draft,I really hope it works out for them as a team,and for us,there great fans.
Dneader - April 20, 2010
In theory, there should be one of the top five players on the Browns’ draft board available. If that’s the case then you take him. If not, then trade down.
dawgtribe - April 20, 2010
Umm. The Eagles get Ernie Sims. Are you freaking kidding me.
The Redskins have declared Jason Campbell is on the trading block along with the #4 pick. I say we take it and declare we´ll take Jimmy Clausen over Sam Bradford. This is the strongest possible move.
mooncamping - April 20, 2010
Regarding Eric Berry, I think we have a not insignificant talent at strong safety already in Abe Elam. I also think that if he was commited to playing the position with a vengance, Eric Wright would do great. Would it be a brilliant idea to use Eric Berry as a free safety?
The Tennessee football site lists him as DB. The wiki, lists him as a strong safety. NFL.com lists him as a strong safety. cbssports.com lists him as a free safety. Walter football lists him as safety, simply, so does espn.com. USA Today touts him as a DB, who prefers playing safety. nfldraftscoutl.com 2010 lists him as the top free safety.
This guy´s invited to Radio City Music Hall, and he´s not even properly designated for where he should play. This is the most highly decorated Joker card in a long time.
mooncamping - April 20, 2010
Stay on target….
BrownDawg1409 - April 20, 2010
I agree. If wikipedia and cbssports.com can’t agree on a contextually arbitrary designation, then we shouldn’t draft the guy.
danvail - April 20, 2010
but wikipedia is infallible! they must be right!
notthatnoise - April 20, 2010
Immovable object + unstoppable force = mooncamping opinion
danvail - April 20, 2010
Staaay on TAR-GET!!
johnnyphoenix - April 20, 2010
rec porkins.
Dawg Nuts - April 20, 2010
Eric Wright at free safety that is.
mooncamping - April 20, 2010
Why move a guy who has performed admirably at CB to S?
AG7 - April 20, 2010
Instead of asking mooncamping why, ask yourself why not.
Roger Dorn - April 20, 2010
AG7 is officially indoctrined into the site! Huzzah!
BrownDawg1409 - April 20, 2010
And green.
danvail - April 20, 2010
Don’t even bother . . . .
Buckeye Brad - April 20, 2010
Why ask why?
Villeslgr - April 21, 2010
Do they still make that? I haven’t seen those commercials in years.
Buckeye Brad - April 21, 2010
prototype free safety:
same mold:
mooncamping - April 21, 2010
flag for using a squeeler as a measuring stick.
Dawg Nuts - April 21, 2010
Uh-oh . . . moon figured out how to post pictures. Prepare for a detailed breakdown of Hank Fraley’s buttocks.
Buckeye Brad - April 21, 2010
LOLOLOL…REC!
Kimble_79 - April 21, 2010
? He already has. They were detailed pictures of Mack’s ass. He’s been posting pics for over half a year man
SpecialBrownie - April 21, 2010
If I was looking at an ass getting fatter it would have been Eric Steinbach, so we can move him to center.
mooncamping - April 22, 2010
Leader
I understand the point of this article is to play the devils advocate but one of the biggest things I think people are still overlooking for all that is great about Eric Berry is his leadership and more importantly his attitude. He is confident, nearly to the line of being cocky, but defenses need to have an attitude and something like that is contageous. I think he has the ability and attitude that will resonate through our defense and make everyone better.
Not taking anything away from Thomas mind you, from what I have seen Berry ahs wahat it takes to be a defensive leader, something in my opinion the Browns sorely lack.
In my humble opinion if hes not there at 7, trade down.
Sudsy - April 20, 2010
Well said. I’d say most people here agree with this take, especially judging from our big board.
danvail - April 20, 2010
I’m on the fence with this one. If the eagles would offer us what was cited in our mock example above, I’m not sure what I would do. I agree completely with Sudsy above, however all those picks in this deep of a draft is rather tempting.
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
Well in that hypothetical, it is tempting. As I posted above, I think for me it would come down to how good I feel about McCoy and whether I can get him in the second. If I like him and I don’t think he’ll be around past Minnesota, I trade down and reload around him.
danvail - April 20, 2010
Yes, the possibility of filling our holes with that many picks would be too overwhelming I think for me. I agree with you, reload around Colt if this would play out and start from there.
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
this!
sleepy042 - April 20, 2010
Right, but if you’re reasonably sure he’ll be there at 39 I’d take Berry and McCoy. Or, if you aren’t that high on McCoy, you take the elite prospect and go from there.
danvail - April 20, 2010
Not sure, with that many picks being offered, I think I would move forward with this deal regardless of where I felt McCoy was going to land.
Kimble_79 - April 20, 2010
i think there are more reasons to pass on taking berry at #7 besides the potential bust factor:
1) the money you have tied up that can’t go elsewhere
2) no guarantee that the W-L record will improve – sean taylor was the only non-bust – and the redskins went 24-38 with him until he got shot – even ed reed’s impact (drafted in the 20’s) was negligible – the ravens went 50-46 until they drafted flacco;
3) the injury factor – even if a safety does become an impact player such as polamalu – he’s missed 19 games in the last four seasons – and it’s not just him – reed, sanders and polamalu have missed 79 games in 21 combined seasons – arguably the three best safeties in the league;
4) the well run teams aren’t the ones drafting safeties in the top ten: oakland, buffalo, washington (twice) and dallas (jerry jones’ meddling) – while reed didn’t go ‘til the 20’s.
if berry (or thomas) were available in the late teen’s and we could trade to draft there – i’d be much more ok with that kind of scenario
barryc - April 21, 2010
you make some good points; however, i just think we’re so weak at safety that it has a staggering effect on our defense; also, the bust factor is less for us drafting a safety because it can’t get any worse. even half-decent performance would be a huge upgrade for us.
Dawg Nuts - April 21, 2010
Your third point is really a good one.
Bernie19Kosar - April 21, 2010
I like Taylor Mays better than Berry. He would be a physical force in the backfield. He would have the opposing WRs having to think about getting smacked down every play. I also think his bigger frame would be more resilient. And he still has good speed. We should be able to get him lower in the draft also… a trade down to get him (or a possibly a trade up from the 2nd round) is a real possibility.
You can be taught to be better in coverage, to have a better sense of where the ball is going, etc. but you can’t be “taught” to be 6’3" and 230 lbs when you are 5’10" and 200. I think Mays deserves serious consideration and is currently being undervalued. To me, Berry’s big claim to fame is interceptions. This is a decisive football event but it is also relatively rare vs something like a bone-jarring tackle while you are trying to receive the ball in the air. I saw some highlights in which Berry gets pulverized by a big back. Didn’t see anything like that with Mays. I think Browns fans will like him… a lot.
Brownsyup - April 21, 2010
? I still think Mays is overvalued.
The man is terrible at slot coverage and coverage is much harder to teach than you think. He also is a bad tackler. Bad tackling is almost impossible to grow out of, especially at the NFL level.
SpecialBrownie - April 21, 2010
Berry is just under 6’ and 212, not 5’10" and 200—not that it makes a huge difference. Have you seen the kid hit people? You can’t be taught to cover the MOF like Berry can cover it.
Berry can cover WRs, TEs, and Backs up to Brandon Jacobs’ size. He can cover any underneath zone. He can cover any deep part of the field you want. He can come up and play in the box. He can rush the QB. He can find and high point the ball. He’s fluid, he’s fast, he’s got a good burst. Being huge doesn’t mean you can do any of that. What good is being 6’3" if you aren’t making pass deflections high in the air? Berry is just far and away the more skilled player.
rufio - April 21, 2010
you can’t teach ball skills. Mays has ABSOLUTELY NONE. you can’t teach that playmaker instinct and Mays doesn’t have that.
bross09 - April 21, 2010
Thomas is a close second to Berry. Mays is a distant 3rd.
But it depends on the current makeup of your secondary. If you are looking for a hard hitting run stopper then Mays is your man. People here in Cincy are talking up Mays but I would take Thomas over Mays in a second. Of course I would prefer Berry but he will be long gone before we will have any chance at him. Thomas could possibly be there at #21- maybe. It could be that we will end up with Mays but I hope not. I don’t see any reason to take the 3rd best player at any position in the first round.
JUNGLEJOHN - April 21, 2010
I would say Nate Allen is a distant third. I do not personally think mays can be an effective safety in the league unless he goes to a team that will ask him to play man coverage very little (almost never)
bross09 - April 21, 2010
Your response interested me so I did some investigation
The result was that, yes he is clearly a more balanced safety. The report said he was a hard worker with good instincts and ball skills and is smart. He will probably be a good player. His negatives were that his max speed is only average, he struggles in man coverage, isn’t a big hitter and isn’t very quick or explosive. They, Draft Countdown, project him as a starter but they rank him lower than Mays. I think between the two we will chose Mays as Zimmer has said that it is easier to coach back agressivness than the other way around. I hope it doesn’t come to that and Thomas is still there as I rank him close to Berry. In fact I am not sure he isn’t a little better in coverage. Berry is still the first choice though. The only bad thing about having a good year is that a guy you really like has to run the gauntlet of 20 teams before you get a chance at him.Thanks bross09, Allen kind of flew under my radar.
JUNGLEJOHN - April 22, 2010
but Zimmer doesn’t coach on the browns. that is the thing. the browns predicate themselves on smart, instinctive players on Defense. guys who have a nose for the ball and good FBI (football intelligence) and instincts in coverage. however, Mays is severely lacking on his instincts on the field. he is not the type of pick that would fit our defensive style or our defense in general, although he would fit in Cincy.
yeah. allen is flying under a lot of people’s radars. he has enough physical skills to be good but not the elite skills that the other 3 have. he might not have the upside of mays, but because of what he brings to the table, in our defense he has a much better shot at being a solid player.
bross09 - April 22, 2010
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