Dawgs By Nature

Also!

Browns have signed Fujita according to Schefter.

BOOYA! I like that!

I like this as well. Not an amazing player, but a good role playing starter, at (hopefully) a decent price.

Simmsinns - March 7, 2010 reply

I totally agree.

Saints fan here

Great signing! We all love Fujita at Canal Street Chronicles, and are sad to see him go.

I think he’ll do great in Cleveland. He came to the Saints coming off of out 3-13 Katrina season, and has been a solid block in our 4 year rebuilding process culminating with a Superbowl. He’s certainly not afraid to step up as a leader on a rebuilding team, and should be a great player to help you guys turn it around.

He’s not the flashiest, highlight-reel player, but he gets the job done and gets it done well. Don’t assume “not flashy” is the same as “not good.” He rarely makes mistakes, and is almost never the reason a defensive play fails. He should be a starter for you guys for the next few years. I’m sure you guys will like him as much as we did. Kudos to you on getting a solid player!

TheBobLoblawBlog - March 7, 2010 reply

Sounds great, thanks for the info!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3643439

Here's a couple of links to get you aquainted with him as well...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3630373

He also did a local segment called: Who Dat Fish, where after a Saints win, he would create a Sushi roll in honor of a member of the team. You can find a number of those on youtube.

TheBobLoblawBlog - March 7, 2010 reply

Joe Thomas can catch it, and Fujita can prepare it.

Perfect.

joe thomas just looks into the water and the fish jump into the boat themselves. but they’re happy knowing they’ll be eaten by joe thomas.

Dawg Nuts - March 7, 2010 reply

I hope Fujita likes Walleye

Most likely only if it’s sauteed with green and red peppers, stuffed with beef and wrapped in a tortilla.

I hope Fujita likes ~~Walleye~~ beating the Steelers!

Fixed.

I rec all Joe Thomas facts.

Roger Dorn - March 7, 2010 reply

When Moses crossed the Red Sea, he was only able to do it because Joe Thomas was blocking the water.

and that was after he pulled from blocking the pharoah and his entire army. that’s why moses had time to get across.

Dawg Nuts - March 8, 2010 reply

A handicap parking sign does not signify that this spot is for handicapped people. It is actually in fact a warning, that the spot belongs to Joe Thomas and that you will be handicapped if you park there.

After taking a steroids test, doctors informed Joe Thomas that he had tested positive. He laughed upon receiving this information, and said “of course my urine tested positive, what do you think they make steroids from?”

This is going to be fun.

when the bogeyman goes to sleep at night, he checks his closet for joe thomas.

Dawg Nuts - March 9, 2010 reply

Superman wears Joe Thomas pajamas.

Joe Thomas isn’t afraid of the dark. The dark is afraid of Joe Thomas.

There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals Joe Thomas allows to live.

Joe Thomas doesn’t read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.

Everybody loves Raymond. Except Joe Thomas.

Joe Thomas can win a game of Connect Four in three moves.

Joe Thomas ordered a Big Mac at Burger King and got one.

(I didn’t go to chucknorrisfacts.com and replace “Chuck Norris” with “Joe Thomas” or anything…)

are you sure you didn’t do that? because the first 4 I have heard as Chuck Norris facts.

either way, the two are interchangable.

Yeesh.

danvail - March 9, 2010 reply

Wow. Really, bross? Haven’t you learned anything by now?

Buckeye Brad - March 9, 2010 reply

I was just kidding around with emily.

I was being sarcastic about not changing it haha.

I figured…

Rec for Everybody loves Raymond part.

skipkirk - March 9, 2010 reply

Sisyphus’ rock did not fall back down the hill when Joe Thomas pushed it.

Brilliant

skipkirk - March 8, 2010 reply

It didn’t go up it either, it went through and left the mountain a mess of rubble that Joe Thomas used to create meteor showers.

Villeslgr - March 8, 2010 reply

wow…freaking brilliant.

Sumo wrestling is the ancient art of impersonating Joe Thomas.

Ha. I love these Joe Thomas things. We should have a fanpost just for them.

emily522 - March 8, 2010 reply

The way he’s going Joe Thomas could solve our QB problems – and play LT at the same time.

skipkirk - March 8, 2010 reply

If Joe Thomas was our qb wouldn’t need a LT, because Joe Thomas doesn’t have a blind side. But sometimes for fun he pretends he doesn’t see the rusher, just so he can rip his jersey off and yell Ole!

Villeslgr - March 8, 2010 reply

hahaha

danvail - March 9, 2010 reply

Damn, I should’ve gotten a Joe Thomas jersey instead of a Brady Quinn one…

Oh well, at least it’ll serve as a nice joke for years to come. And I think buying a DA or Braylon one would be worse.

There is still time.

Roger Dorn - March 9, 2010 reply

Or a Cribbs one. What was I thinking? I’ll have to fix this eventually haha.

James Harrison has 99 problems and they’re all Joe Thomas.

joe thomas can slam a revolving door.

Dawg Nuts - March 9, 2010 reply

I like this one.

Joe Thomas can replace LeBron on the Cavs.

Bernie19Kosar - March 9, 2010 reply

this blew my mind.

Dawg Nuts - March 9, 2010 reply

Don’t you DARE joke about anything happening to LeBron — that’s not funny!

Buckeye Brad - March 9, 2010 reply

Ha!

Joe Thomas and Lebron are Brothers from Another Mother.

Hi! Thanks for contributing. Yeah we in Cleveland are all about substance over style, its just in our DNA. I think Fujita can be a solid contributor for a few seasons here. Here’s hoping that he can have the same kind of success here as he had in New Orleans.

Congratulations on your super bowl success.

Thanks Poops. We appreciate your words and praise.
Not many of us have commented on the Fujita signing yet, but it seems that people like it here. I, for one, am really excited about him.

Honestly didn’t know who this guy was before we signed him, but that sounds great!

wow

Wow what?

You kind of live in a cave.

Yeah, I guess so. I don’t know every player in the NFL, I’m sorry.

Haha sorry. I just said that because he’s still a highly known player/ Especially after winning the Super Bowl

Well I hadn’t heard of him. Maybe once or twice but I didn’t really recognize the name.

I wouldn’t say he’s highly known. I’ll bet there are plenty of non-hardcore NFL fans who don’t know who Scott Fajita is.

Buckeye Brad - March 7, 2010 reply

Yeah, highly known may have been a bit much.

NAH it’s ok Emily. Trust us. Fujita is a good player. I’ve liked him for years.

Well good. Glad to see we got a nice pick up.

I’ve also watched him for many years. I love the signing.

DQ, Roth, and Fujita? Ohhhhh man. I love it.

And if Wimbley can finally get it together this year and Veikune can make a good transition to MLB along with a Bowens and Maiava rotation.

Meanest LB Corps ever.

imagine if Jerry Hughes falls to us in the 2nd. I’d be stoked.

I don’t really want LBs in this draft unless Spikes or Kindle falls to the 2nd.

you know what…that is about the 15th time you have said that. there are many things I would draft over an OLB right now. I wouldn’t obsess over a guy like that.

that is about the 15th time you have said that

Coming from YOU! Haha, just kidding you don’t do that any more.

I agree though that I don’t want LBs.

Nope. We’re loaded.

The only exeptions are
1. If we trade down and Paul-Pierre or McClain is available
2. Spikes in the 2nd
3. Kindle or Graham in the 2nd (maybe)

yeah, if its a best player available situation, i’d totally agree.

Dawg Nuts - March 8, 2010 reply

Kindle or Graham won’t make it to the second (well kindle maybe but doubtful, too much hype)

Hughes or more likely Ricky Sapp will be available. I love Hughes big value in the second, Sapp not so much but still probably a decent nfl starter.

Sapp is overrated. He only had 5 sacks and has an injury history.

I agree. and such a small frame too…I just don’t see him holding up well at the POA.

I would take an OLB in a second if he could rush the passer.

We still do not have an OLB that is a good pass rusher.

this.

I think Kindle is a little overrated. Hughes seems like the best pass rusher in the draft outside of the true defensive ends (derrek Morgan et. all)

Kindle was just too much of a tweener in college. He was just made to be 34 OLB.

I look at him on tape and I see more Vernon Gohlston than Brian Orakpo.

Gholston is a horrible comparison. I don’t remember Gholston playing much LB.

Kindle was at his best in his junior year when he played OLB mainly and put his hand in the ground on passing downs. Sounds like what 3-4 OLBs do, right?

Gholston actually did play some “LB”. Ohio State actually calls their rush end the “LEO”, who will drop in to zone occasionally—moreso than a traditional DE.

I don’t think they whipped out their half Double Eagle, half Under front until Gholston left, but LEOs from then on would have played standing up, too. Like Gibson.

Are you freaking kidding?

Wait, who are u asking if they are kidding?

Use the up button.

Not you.

OK, I didn’t know about the up button.

jaws (just FYI, the up button works for these tiny-ass replies). Gholston was always stiffer than Kindle. I think Kindle is a better pass rusher and worse at stopping the run than Vern coming out of college.

I agree, but he doesn’t look as fluid as orakpo did. His foot plant and running the bend is much better than Gohlson but his stable of pass rush moves is not as complete as Orakpo.

Also Kindle had his best seasons playing opposite Orakpo, when he rarely had to combat the double team or chip block.

The positive note is that like Gohlston he did spend time as a hybrid type player and thus has experience dropping into coverage.

I think he looks more fluid than Orakpo, actually. And a lot weaker at the PoA.

Kindle played OLB when Orapko was there

lol. I deserved that a bit.

rec bross for having a good sense of humor.

doggrad87 - March 8, 2010 reply

NICE. I’ve had a perm smile on my face since the anouncement.

Why is this green?

It is not necessary to know the name of mediocre defensive players on other teams.

I didn’t say it was and he’s better than mediocre.

He’s a stud. Don’t have an ego.

Why thank you.

I don’t really see how that is having an ego?

You called him mediocre just to insult me.

I swear man, I didn’t. Maybe he is more solid than mediocre, but OLB was considered one of the Saints’ weaker spots on D. I hope I’m wrong and he is a stud.

But I really wasn’t saying it to try to offend you or start a fight.

Forgiven.

It sounded like you were trying to defend Emily more than you had to by calling Fujita mediocre.
Nothing against Emily, and not to talk about her like she’s not here, but Fujita is an awesome signing. It made my weekend.

Rec.

Call me a nutsack, but I’m buying a Fujita jersey when it comes out. It will rotate with my Thomas jersey.

Dude, I’m right there with you. I still need to get my first jersey. Maybe Fuji will be it.

The Licensed Pessimist - March 8, 2010 reply

nutsack ;-)

doggrad87 - March 8, 2010 reply

why in the world are you so excited about a backup LB?

Yeah uhm, I’m pretty sure he’ll be starting and you clearly haven’t watched him as closely as me and BY. He’s a very good LB and should soar as Ted LB in our system.

If you’re going to act like this for everything, you should go root for the Raiders.

The Licensed Pessimist - March 8, 2010 reply

Scott Fujita is freakin Scott Fujita. He’s a position players, someone who’s going to do nothing more than what other players in our system would. He’s there for depth, support and that’s it. I don’t get all “i’m going to rush out and get a jersey!!”-ish over someone who barely upgrades a mediocre unit. Sorry I don’t share your enthusiasm. I’ll leave the overreaction to you and your fanboys.

I’m not getting on your case for not having enthusiasm, I’m getting on your case for never having enthusiasm and also for assuming that every player we now get or sign a contract to is not worth that money and will barley serve a purpose on the team.

That’s pretty dumb, IMO.

The Licensed Pessimist - March 8, 2010 reply

What’s pretty dumb is your enthusiasm for the team going out and getting an average player to the point you’re bragging about going out and getting his jersey.

Like I said, I’m not sorry for not being enthusiastic about signing the highest paid kick returner, or signing an aging average MLB. Yes I’m glad re resigned Cribbs, but it still was expensive as hell and it was worthy of an “holy shit” response. I’m damn sure not excited about signing an aging RT whose been beat out in training camp by rookies on 2 separate occasions and cut by other teams.

The browns continuously have signed mediocre players, and in result have been a mediocre team. I’m not going to show enthusiasm over mediocre moves, or look at things with Brown-colored glasses on just to make myself feel better. You can feel however you want about that, and it probably does look bad to a enthusiastic fan. But when it boils down to it he’s still an average player for 5 mil a season, and the only good thing about this is that we don’t have to spend a draft pick on a MLB this draft.

Cribbs was a holy shit moment, I’ll give you that.

Rookies are most of the time better than Veterans, the RT does not have to be amazing, he really doesn’t do a lot in pass protection. He’s a very good run blocker. He left SF because he was on a one year deal and broke his shoulder blade. He’s a good pickup.

And you’re never enthusiastic to anything, I’m not just pertaining to this offseason.

How about instead of signing mediocre players we go out and sign slightly better players and massively overpay them…that is what all the other teams in free agency are doing.

He’s solid. And, I know I keep saying this, but talented depth matters. Guys get injured and hurt all the time in the NFL. If you have less of a drop from Player X to Player Y, that is very valuable.

gahnki - March 8, 2010 reply

Rocland is cranky and unimpressed by something the Browns did?

I don’t believe it.

rec

Yeah, why is it?

emily522 - March 8, 2010 reply

Is anyone else intrigued by Jarvis Green?

On that note, I don’t know if you saw this article but it is on Green.

I was reading Schefter’s twitter at the moment you posted that.

Here is an interesting note on the Pashos signing from Daniel Jeremiah:

Tony Pashos was a Savage pushed pick in Baltimore and was also a Kokinis favorite.

And he thinks Haden falls into the 20’s.

I think the league is starting to wise up on Haden.

I wonder if Pashos was a guy Mangini and Kokinis tried to get last year.

I’d love to see the Browns trade that far down and pick up another second rounder. I could get on board with Haden at that point.

I don’t like Haden, but at that point, I would really like that.

if we can get eric berry, we have to pull the trigger. We need a dynamic playmaker on defense to make rob ryan’s aggressive style go.

Just out of curiosity, who do like instead of Haden? (Assuming Suh, McCoy, and Berry are gone.)

Simmsinns - March 7, 2010 reply

Derek Morgan and Mike Iupati.

I know most people don’t like Morgan, but I think he can play the strong side in a 3-4 and would really help our pass rush from day one. Not to mention he would be very versatile and that is something that Ryan and Mangini seem to really like in players.

On Iupati I know that this is about 8-10 picks before other think he will be drafted, but I think he is the best interior OL to come out since Shawn Andrews. I think he is behind Berry the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft. Give me Mack and Iupati for the next seven years and I will be very, very happy.

I could be talked into JPP as a massive risk and I am really starting to like Brian Price as a 3-4 DE.

I know that many will laugh and snicker but I think that those two are the safest picks and when you are picking in the top 15, we should really target safe players.

if we cant get berry, and I mean can’t even trade up because the chiefs are completely sold on picking him, I think iupati is a nice pick if we can swing a trade down a few spots.

Iupati would be a massive reach.

This drives me NUTS.

A reach how? Because he is supposed to be drafted 10 picks later? If the Browns are unable to trade down, and in all realities this is probably going to be true, then who cares if we pick a guy 10 spots early?

If the guy ends up being a Pro Bowler for 10 seasons, is anyone going to look back and say “Wow, Iupati was a reach”. I am guessing they are going to say the same thing people say when they look at the 2001 first round, “”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NFL_Draft#Round_one" target="new">How the hell did Steve Hutchinson last until the 17th pick?"

Think the Bears wish they would have “reached” at pick 8 for an All-Pro Guard?

The term reach should be reserved when a team drafts a player rounds ahead of where others think they should be taken, not picks.

I think when we look back in five years, EB will be the best player in this draft and Iupati will be on his third or fourth pro bowl. There isn’t anyone else in this draft that I feel that strongly about.

By the way, if this sounds like I am jumping down your throat, I appologize. I respect your thoughts on the draft as you really seem to know your sh*t, it is just that term “reach” gets thrown around a lot (I fall into the term of using it at times).

I have no idea why that link didn’t work, here it is.

You’re missing a carrot at the beginning of the link to enclose the HTML link. If you were interested.

Stupid computers.

Damn, it hurts to see the Warren sandwhiched in between all those probowlers.

Well, maybe its just my opinion, but I’m not in love with Iupati. Sure, he dominated the WAC, but that doesn’t say much. In Senior Bowl practice, he did look very good, but in the game, Geno Atkins abused (slight exaggeration) him. So I don’t really think that he is a talent worthy of the top 1/2 of the first round.

Position value is also a factor. It just seems like guards can be found so much easier. Guard isn’t a position that makes a major impact, and I think some of the other guard prospects are close to as good (Ducasse, Jerry, Petrus).

I respect your opinion and understand what you are saying, but I am just stating mine.

I put very little stock into what happens in draft Bowl games especially in the offensive line.

Offensive line takes such cohesion that it is practically impossible to get any kind of familiarity with all the subbing and rotating in and out. I give the week of one on one practices much more value, and like you noted, Iupati did very well until he was asked to move to OT (a postion he wouldn’t be asked to play here in Cleveland).

I can understand what you mean about the Guard position, but I really think that this position is undervalued. You look at great running teams, they usually have very good guards. Faneca left Pittsburgh and their run game has suffered while NYJ has really taken off. Same could be said for Hutchinson.

Plus, I think that Iupati would be a very easy sign, which should matter close to nothing, but is worth a mention.

I get what you say, but I’m still not on the Iupati train yet.

Understandable.

I am pretty far out there when it comes to the draft (if you remember I was puching for Cushing at five last year).

I actually didn’t think Cushing at 5 would be a bad move until the steroid thing. He seemed like a sure thing.

we could have had clay matthews where we took alex mack. either way mack was a bit of a reach but there was no trading down any further.

the thing that really fucked us last year in the draft was Laurenaitis going one pick before robiskie, I think Lauranitis would have been the pick and then massaquoi. Veikune was a bit of a head scratcher.

we could have had clay matthews where we took alex mack. either way mack was a bit of a reach but there was no trading down any further.

This is what I am talking about.

We drafted a 12 year starter with Pro Bowl potential.

Does anyone really care that he is/was a “reach”?

If you said yes, slap yourself.

its all about the money, my man. A pro bowl pass rusher is more worth the money there than a pro bowl center.

To win in the nfl 3 things are paramount:
1) Your quarterback
2) protecting your Quarterback
3) rushing the opposing quarterback

thats why the positions that do these things make the big bucks. Its why centers MLB and guards fall down to the bottom of the first usually. The biggest money has to go into priorities #1, 2 and 3

its all about the money, my man. A pro bowl pass rusher is more worth the money there than a pro bowl center.

I understand what you are talking about when it comes to cost.

The only issue I have is that paying an offensive guard 8 million dollars a season, isn’t crazy. In fact, it is the going rate for top of the line guards. In case you haven’t noticed, anyone drafted in the top 10 is going to be paid like they are already elite.

With that being said, I have a hard time swallowing the idea of we shouldn’t draft the BPA (assuming the FO thinks Iupati is the BPA at 7) just because of positional cost. I would gladly pay 8 million dollars a season for Steve Hutchinson.

If there was a pass rusher available in the mold of a Ware or Suggs there would be no question of who I would prefer. In fact, if you go up to the original comment of this discussion, I list Derek Morgan as my preferred pick at 7.

The Browns cannot have another busted draft pick. The Browns have to make some ground with this pick. We need to be careful. That is why I don’t like JPP. So that is why I am high on Iupati. Best case scenario he is Steve Hutchinson. Worst case scenario he is Chris Snee.

I am really cool with spending 40 million dollars on a 23 YO Chris Snee/Steve Hutchinson.

In fact if I had a draft board for the Browns right now, it would be:
1. Eric Berry
2. Ndomunkung Suh
3. Derek Morgan
4. Brian Price
5. Mike Iupati
6. Trent Williams
7. Sam Bradford
8. Bryan Bulaga
9. Brandon Graham
10. Kareem Jackson

It isn’t going to jive with Kiper, but like I said, I am a bit unconventional.

I take it you are a big Kareem Jackson fan, but would you really rather have him than Earl Thomas?

I’m not the biggest Earl Thomas fan, so yes.

Jackson has amazing coaching and has been playing in a NFL type defense for three seasons now. He is a plus on bump coverage and does is better in man to man IMO than Haden.

What about Thomas as a CB though?

Honestly I haven’t even thought of him like that. I would be interested to hear what some other would think about that.

Could possibly work.

On a similar note, I think Eric Berry would be an All-Pro CB.

I agree about Berry, I’ve thought that for a while.

If some people want I might make a fanpost talking about the different CBs in this class

Cool.

skipkirk - March 9, 2010 reply

My Board:

1. Eric Berry
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. Dez Bryant (go ahead and hate but he is THAT good)
4. Joe Haden
5. Anthony Davis
6. Earl Thomas
7. Jason Pierre-Paul

Just throwing it out there:
1) Ndamukong Suh
2) Eric Berry (with several red circles around his name)
3) Brian Price (If we got the right value)
4) Joe Haden (if he looks better at pro day)
5) Mike Iupati
6) Charles Brown
7) Jerry Hughes
8) Kareem Jackson
9) Kyle Wilson
10) Maurkice Pouncey

Ideally I’d like to add Berry with our #1 and one of the guys 5-10 with our #2 Now that there are some questions about Joe Haden, I don’t see anything nearly as valuable after Eric Berry. Things might change but right now I would be Dead set on trading up to get him.

Most will land in the first but 6-10 could slip to the early second.

Charles Brown is more like the 5th best OT, not the 6th best person for the Browns. All he would be for us is a backup for Thomas because he is too small for RT.

Pouncey wouldn’t be that great of a pick because he is best at center. He isn’t strong enough for guard in our running scheme.

I like charles brown as an athletic tackle or right guard.

Have you not been reading the top of this thread. We like our LT.

Plus he’s too small for RG.

he weighed in at 303 lbs at the combine. Thats big enough for any of the 3 interior positions.

jaws. - March 9, 2010 reply

Center maybe but RGs need to be bigger.

TheRealSlimShady - March 10, 2010 reply

but we could put mack at guard then /sarc

woah woah remember. You have to take advantage of where a guy is “supposed” to go. If you are a team who thinks the guy is worth more than his “projection” your job is to pick him within that projection and then have him out perform the players picked before him.

Remember the economics involved: every player in the first round is paid in between the picks that come before and after him. Positional value is key here, the most expensive positions are better values higher in the round and then the late round picks are where you can take the lower value positons (like guard)

The biggest reason that Iupati is a first round projection (besides his great all around play at guard) is that he could possibly play some tackle for you too at times. That versatility is important for some front offices.

You don’t want to pick Iupati way up at #7 and pay him like an elite Left tackle (or any other high draft pick) when you could make a trade down into the teens or low 20s and get more draft picks. Also you would be able to pay him more in line what his positional value is worth.

While I think Iupati is a great guy and could go on to be a great guard for a long time, I wouldn’t pick him in the top 10 of the draft. If we were to miss berry and trade down for him i’d like the move or if we were to take berry and then trade back into the round and take iupati I would like the move, but taking him at #7 is a bad move.

woah woah remember. You have to take advantage of where a guy is "supposed" to go. If you are a team who thinks the guy is worth more than his "projection" your job is to pick him within that projection and then have him out perform the players picked before him.

We are talking 10 picks. I am not suggesting we draft Sam Young with the seventh pick.

As for the rest of your statement, you casually leave out how impossibly hard it is to trade out of the top 10 picks. It is rarely done and is something that almost never happens.

Would I love to trade down? Hell yes, I wrote an entire article on it. But I am realist and realize that the chances of us moving down more towards where Iupati is “projected” are minuscule.

If the front office thinks, like I do, that Iupati is the best player on the board at that spot, than they damn well better take him.

Remember the economics involved: every player in the first round is paid in between the picks that come before and after him. Positional value is key here, the most expensive positions are better values higher in the round and then the late round picks are where you can take the lower value positons (like guard)

If we draft Eric Berry at 7 we will be paying him in the neighborhood of what Antrell Rolle got. No matter the position, we are going to be paying through the nose. Elite guards make big coin. I am not that worried about it.

You don’t want to pick Iupati way up at #7 and pay him like an elite Left tackle (or any other high draft pick) when you could make a trade down into the teens or low 20s and get more draft picks. Also you would be able to pay him more in line what his positional value is worth.

Again, you make it seem like trading down is nothing more than a snap of the fingers.

While I think Iupati is a great guy and could go on to be a great guard for a long time, I wouldn’t pick him in the top 10 of the draft. If we were to miss berry and trade down for him i’d like the move or if we were to take berry and then trade back into the round and take iupati I would like the move, but taking him at #7 is a bad move.

If you think he is going to be a great guard for a longtime (your words) then why and the hell would you care where you take him? If he is truly great then no matter what we are paying him will be worth it (think Joe Thomas).

Haha, you mentioned Sam Young.

Not trying to be a smartass, just saying that Sam Young is garbage. Go ahead everyon, be shocked.

You’ve been saying this for a while. He needs to get lower and to increase his flexibility or he won’t be able to play RT in the NFL…or at least it looked that way at the combine. He seemed to move a lot better in pads vs. shorts.

I wouldn’t be against drafting him later, i.e. 4th+ rounds.

If you have a good OL coach he has potential but right now he is very bad.

theres other guys you could get in the third round ahead of him.

Like…

We are talking 10 picks. I am not suggesting we draft Sam Young with the seventh pick.

As for the rest of your statement, you casually leave out how impossibly hard it is to trade out of the top 10 picks. It is rarely done and is something that almost never happens.

Mack at 5?

Villeslgr - March 7, 2010 reply

The Browns trading out of the five pick last season was the best thing to happen to this franchise since the Joe Thomas pick.

We shouldn’t count on it happening again.

I’m not counting on it happening again. However, Mangini is still here and Holmgren doesn’t seem like the type to not make an effort to get the best possible outcome.

If we decide that we want to I have confidence that the FO will find a way to do so. Just because we did something last year doesn’t mean we can’t do it again this year.

Villeslgr - March 7, 2010 reply

I think we’ll trade up with the chiefs and get berry. They can get a tackle at #7

I have a feeling that the Chiefs will pass up on the best defensive player in the draft but then once we think that he is ours then Seattle snatches him.

Sound familiar?

Am I the only person who is totally stoked that we didn’t draft Aaron Curry?

No, it ended up being a blessing in disguise.

Curry had a decent year. I didn’t want him and I thought he was overrated last year. MLB just isn’t what it used to be in terms of value. Cincinnati got the steal of the draft in Maulaluga but it was because everyone knew he was an alcoholic. They paid for it this offseason with that little DUI incident.

Right there with you.

I personally Didn’t want him. Like witherspoon (I think I am talking about the right guy, the OLB from Mizzou in this draft) I just don’t see him being a good fit in the 3-4. Curry had great skills but I thought he was truly only an OLB in a 4-3.

totally agree. AJ Hawk type. Strong side LB in a 4-3, but just doesn’t fit anywhere in the 3-4 all that well.

except I think hawk would be a better fit than witherspoon or curry…

He had a rough year this year now that Green Bay went to the 3-4

I am not going to disagree it was a little rough. still, I think he can eventually be a good player in the scheme. I doubt it with curry or witherspoon. their skills shine more in the 4-3. with the right experience I think hawk could be a 4-3 or 3-4 guy.

Also we are 7 this year. I don’t feel like typing it out but you can do your own research, but I went back to 99 and there were many instances of teams trading top 10 picks. It is not inconceivable that we could again do the same.

Villeslgr - March 7, 2010 reply

because in that time you could find a pretty good guard who makes less money, especially since we already have one very high priced guard.

Generally people think the tackles and Center are the most important pieces of an offensive line, the guards aren’t faced up one on one as much and usually are the help in combo blocks. Having an elite road grader is really nice but you can usually find a guy who is only a little bit worse (and will give you half the years) at half the price down lower in the draft.

While I love Iupati, and I understand what you are saying about it being hard to trade down (nobody wants to pay #7 money to someone they aren’t in love with) Paying him #7 money probably just isn’t worth it.

you could add two guys in the third round who used to be Left tackles in college (veldheer, ciron black, whoever) and move them to right guard and they would give you 90% of iupati (ok they cant pull and trap as effectively, nobody pulls and traps as much as the used to) They might not last 14 or 15 years in the league like Steve Huchinson but you can replace them more easily too. You don’t have a guy like iupati, but you probably wouldn’t miss him with your inside zone play.

It comes down to this: with the salary cap your team is definitely going to have weaknesses. You cant have a pro bowl big salary guy at every positon. You want to try and get franchise players at QB and LT and hopefully rushing the passer. Some spots like guard you just want to find guys who can play pretty well but not cost you very much, so you can tie your money up in the peyton mannings and Dwight Freeney’s of the world.

Generally people think the tackles and Center are the most important pieces of an offensive line, the guards aren’t faced up one on one as much and usually are the help in combo blocks. Having an elite road grader is really nice but you can usually find a guy who is only a little bit worse (and will give you half the years) at half the price down lower in the draft.

Correct, but my point is that I think Iupati is that good. So I don’t have a problem paying him that kind of money. Add in the fact that OL rarely bust out of the NFL, I am much more comfortable spending that kind of money on a guy who is probably going to make a huge impact on this team.

Would you rather draft a WR with the 7th pick, pay him through the nose because they are usually paid more?

If we are going to pay someone out the rear, and we will with the 7th pick, shouldn’t we be targeting a position that has almost no downside?

you could add two guys in the third round who used to be Left tackles in college (veldheer, ciron black, whoever) and move them to right guard and they would give you 90% of iupati (ok they cant pull and trap as effectively, nobody pulls and traps as much as the used to

You either highly overvalue Black and Veldheer or underestimate Iupati.

If you look at the elite guards in the NFL, most were taken in the first round (Joesph, Hutchinson, Leonard Davis, Grubbs, Shawn Andrews, Mankins for example).

Just because other teams don’t value a position doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be open to the idea.

If we roll into week one with an OLine of Thomas, Steinbech, Mack, Iupati and Pashos we will be blowing holes open so wide Jamal Lewis could hit them.

Plus offensive lineman carry their value better than any position outside of QB.

By no means am I saying that Iupati has to be the pick for the Browns at 7, but if it did happen I would be dancing a little jig.

If we roll into week one with an OLine of Thomas, Steinbech, Mack, Iupati and Pashos we will be blowing holes open so wide Jamal Lewis could hit them.

That’s exaggerating.

Possibly.

I personally am hoping that Ducasse falls to round 3. I think he can be a pro bowler at RG or a very good RT.

Especially if he has a year or two to be a backup.

He is a freak, but his technique is not good yet. He hasn’t been playing football for long, so he might just need time. He is very talented.

What I like was how much improvement he showed from the first practice in the senior bowl to the last one. It shows he is very coachable.

I think it is still going to take some time. You also gotta grill that kid in interviews. If he realizes exactly how much potential he has, he will shine. If he works hard only until he becomes an average player or a starter, he’ll disappoint.

I still think he plays at a kind of high level now, but Jerry and Petrus still are a little better right now. They don’t have ceilings like he does.

Leonard Davis was a tackle, only reason he went that high. If you want Iupati you have to pass on alot of players who will have more value on draft day than Iupati. I love iupati but only if we either trade down or trade up to get him.

He was a garbage tackle and was moved to guard where he has now become a Pro Bowler. Even if you take Leonard Davis out of the scenario, my point still stands.

If you want Iupati you have to pass on alot of players who will have more value on draft day than Iupati.

No position keeps their value like offensive lineman. They bust out at a much lower percentage compared with other positions. Even the “bad picks” keep value (think Gallery and Mandarich).

I hear ya. At this point i feel like the browns absolutely have to come away with eric berry. The guy just changes the way you look at our secondary all by himself.

In the second round you need a pass rusher or a CB, but if the option is there to move up back into the first to get Iupati, I am all for it. He is a special player and could form a fantastic trio with Joe Thomas and Alex Mack.

Brian Price wouldn’t fit well in a 3-4. Think Corey Williams.

I am interested to hear why you think that.

From what I have seen (15 games so far) I have seen a DL that has amazing gap discipline.

His first step is the best of any DT that I have seen in this draft and that includes Suh and McCoy.

He has a phenomenal body that is short and stout, yet he moves like a guy who is 75lbs lighter.

Has a wide array of pass rush moves and does an awesome job of using his hands in keeping people away from his body.

He really reminds me of Kevin Williams. I would love to have a Kevin Williams type player on this team.

Corey Williams wasn’t close to as explosive and disciplined as Price is, IMO.

Well, first is the fact that he is 6’1. I know height isn’t everything but I think 3-4 DEs should AT LEAST be 6’3.

I’m also not sure he is strong enough at the point of attack to be a run stopper.

Explosiveness off the snap and getting into the backfield seem to be his strengths, but I just don’t think a 3-4 would take advantage of his strengths.
JMO.

Height is actually not very important for 34 linemen beyond reasonable limits. They are rushing the passer far less, thus they need to be less disruptive to the passing windows of quarterbacks.

I do think he would be better in a 1-gap system. I like the kid from Tennessee.

Dan Williams, the nose tackle?

Yes. I think he will get drafted in the first from 20th+, and we won’t have a shot at him. I think he would be a very good 3-4 DL pickup.

I could see him picked by the Broncos or Dophins.

Dan Williams is a hot commodity right now because he is the #1 guy on the board for pure 3-4 nose tackle. A lot of teams need him.

I like Brian Price a lot. Other than Suh I think Price is the best 3-4 DE in the draft.

Dan Williams is a hot commodity right now because he is the #1 guy on the board for pure 3-4 nose tackle. A lot of teams need him.

Yep. Now if we could trade back to 15, picking up another 2nd and 4th, and trade Rogers for a late 1st and 3rd, I’d pull the trigger on Williams. Not at #7, and he won’t be there in the 2nd.

Its a nice plan, if you could get a first and 3rd for Rogers. I doubt anybody trades us a first rounder for Rogers though. the whole draft should revolve around getting Berry. If we can get Berry the whole draft just falls in place better.

jaws. - March 9, 2010 reply

now way we get a 1st and 3rd for Rogers from a team outside of Oakland

Ok, so we deal him to Oakland.

I don’t think even oakland is stupid enough to trade first and third rounders for a 30 year old shaun rogers. I think Rogers will be a solid 5 tech for us for a year or two.

jaws. - March 10, 2010 reply

Wanna bet?

Bernie19Kosar - March 10, 2010 reply

ha

I’d put his first step slightly behind McCoy. Ahead of Suh, but that isn’t Suh’s game.

I would rather have JPP than Morgan. JPP has the athleticism to play OLB. To me,
JPP:Orakpo::Morgan:Ayers

he also has the potential to be a high bust. I do not want to pay big money to a guy like JPP

Look back at Robert Ayers.

He wasn’t close to the prospect that Derrick Morgan is.

Derrek Morgan is a nice prospect but probably a bit better suited for the 4-3 Defensive end. Somebody else can have Jason Pierre-Paul. Raw workout warrior who could bust out.

Also I don’t like hypenated names on guys.

Kindle is a freak athlete and he could be the next Brian Orakpo, but he also has shown some signs of being the next Vernon Gohlston.

Like I said before I like the versatile Jerry Hughes. ELITE speed and quickness for rush linebacker and a variety of pass rush moves. Reminds me of a little bit taller Elvis Dumervil. He is a steal atop the 2nd round. If he falls to us he is a great value at a position of need. He might sneak into the first round, however.

If Joe Haden drops down in the first round then Kyle Wilson, Kareem Jackson or Devin McCourty could be there for us in the second as well, all would be good picks if we don’t find a CB in trade this offseason.

Also I don’t like hypenated names on guys.

It has killed Maurice Jones-Drew so far in his career.

just a joke.

Me too.

I’m happy with both of these signings. Nice pieces.

APV - March 7, 2010 reply

Great Offseason so far. Very smart two signings.

yeah, i like the fact that both guys we signed are solid even if not spectacular and sure to contirbute tough, valuable minutes on this team. fujita may be a captain on D as soon as he gets here.

Dawg Nuts - March 7, 2010 reply

and i’m actually very happy holmgren hasn’t broken the bank on a "big splash’ signing. he seems to be clearly aimed at slow, steady improvement that will ensure long term success.

Dawg Nuts - March 7, 2010 reply

This.

RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 8, 2010 reply

Amen.

Good luck Tony over there!

As i said he is a classy guy!

Zoltan from Budapest - March 7, 2010 reply

Any Chance the Browns take CJ Spiller?

Do they forget Haden and go for Spiller. How about Bulaga from Iowa or did the signing of Pashos end the drafting of a OT? Thoughts?

champion64 - March 7, 2010 reply

Spiller doesn’t fit the mantra of this new regime, IMO.

Don’t mention a Tackle to play the right side in the first round. You get yelled at, like I did. haha

first round tackles cost too much for the right side. you can get everything you need on the right side in the 3rd round just as easily.

Unless you have a left handed QB

Please don’t start up this argument again.

Honestly, I don’t think we need one if Pashos is healthy.

Harrison

I am not sure Harrison is a long term back. Thoughts? Is davis going to play this year or all Harrison?

champion64 - March 7, 2010 reply

Why Not ???

I keep hearing this Bull , he carried how many times and gained how many yards the last 5 games ?? Enough said !! Forget those old cliches ! The man produced game after game !!!

Muundog - March 7, 2010 reply

Probably because he’s 5-9 and has never carried a full-load in his career. There is a reason for some trepidation regarding his viability over an entire season.

yeah. being short has really hampered Maurice Jones-Drew…he is in fact even shorter…

He’s also a different type of runningback. More than height goes into body type. Besides that, he is the exception and not the norm.

yeah. he is so much huger than Harrison. He is 5-7 207 and Harrison is 5-9 205. yep. completely different body types.

you are wrong that short backs are the exception and not the norm. ever heard of a guy named ray rice? 5-8 210. Justin forsett: 5-8 194. Tiki barber was 5-10 205 (not much different than harrisons build).

The point is, it is flawed to consider someone a significantly worse player at RB because of his size. you look at talent, attitude, and intangibles IMO. there have been some very good backs around harrison’s size. People take height too much into consideration at many positions like HB (and QB)

bross is right. HB is the one position where height is really not a consideration anymore. In fact most scouts like a guy who is shorter than 6’ because of the lower center of gravity. Shorter guys are harder to tackle, run lower and are less injury prone in general.

yep. QB is another position where height is overrated.

My opinion of height is it is a good skill at measuring the value of a player, but there are many more valuable tools.

You think teams that passed on dumervil b/c of his height feel stupid? I think so. I do think height has some value, but not as much as NFL people and scouts make it out to be. while it is often harder at many positions to succeed with below average height, it can be done if the person has the skill set besides height to succeed.

yeah. Dumervil is a total outlier. General consensus was that a guy that short would get engulfed by the giant tackles. Ask Bill Polian, as the tackles in this league have gotten ever larger, apparently a 5’11" pass rusher became viable again. Lots of people looking at the shorter guys differently now.

yeah. dumervil is the exception. that position DOES rely on arm length. so does O-Lineman.

WR it is important to have good height but it isn’t essential anymore. steve smith has been good without it. if you have elite leaping ability you can overcome height.

Dumervil is short but has very long arms

Villeslgr - March 8, 2010 reply

in that way he is the exception. a guy that height usually cannot survive for long rushing the passer.

MJD’s body type is much different than Harrison’s.

MJD is a human bowling ball. Harrison is not.

Harrison is not that much smaller than MJD. between the tackles they run in a similar way from what I have watched of both.

also, I was arguing to the point that MJD was the only successful small back…he is certainly not…

MJD is kind of a weird body type, though. His legs are as thick as tree limbs despite his short stature. That low center of gravity is pretty unique.

jaws. - March 9, 2010 reply

yes…I have seen harrison. He has pretty thick legs too…granted, MJDs are thicker, but Harrison is a fairly unique body type too…similar, but definitely not the same.

also, I was arguing to the point that MJD was the only successful small back…he is certainly not…

Again, no one is arguing that small backs cannot have success. They do, however, have a history of flaming out quickly unless being pared with another back to take the load.

That may be true…except for tiki barber, MJD, and maybe some others I could easily look up…

Besides that, he is the exception and not the norm.

you don’t explicitly talk about durability…you don’t even mention it. it feels implied that you are talking about success.

I would not consider MJD the exception anyways. there are good backs that can last a while.

MJD has played 4 years. His carries went 166, 167, 197, 312.
Fred Taylor’s carries those first 3 years 231, 223, 143.

Pared with another back who for the first two seasons had the majority of the carries.

that is true…forgot about that.

bross09 - March 10, 2010 reply

bross, there is more than height and weight that goes into build. Either you are neglecting this information that multiple people have referenced, or you are simply not accepting the differences in body type. Google somatotypes for more information.

The point is, it is flawed to consider someone a significantly worse player at RB because of his size. you look at talent, attitude, and intangibles IMO. there have been some very good backs around harrison’s size. People take height too much into consideration at many positions like HB (and QB)

No one is arguing that he is less of a player; we are simply providing reasons why it is unrealistic to go into the season with Harrison as the only capable back on the roster. You are arguing a point that no one is trying to make.

I am not denying there are different body types.

actually, this all started b/c you said that MJD is the exception to backs who can be the only good back on the roster…

and I would like to have a capable back on the roster anyways…

Rec.

Tiki Barber was built like a truck. Short backs =/= small backs. There’s a difference.

Harrison from what I have seen is a similar build to barber though.

You are not making any good points, and you are wrong.

from the pictures I have seen of both, they have similar builds. maybe I have to look at their bodies closer (and that sounds weird).

bross09 - March 10, 2010 reply

You should talk to Mooncamping. He has very extensive research on builds too. He tends to focus on the asses of O linemen though.

I see a best seller.

SpecialBrownie - March 10, 2010 reply

lol…maybe I should ask him. I don’t spend that much time looking at the asses of males…maybe that is a good thing.

bross09 - March 10, 2010 reply

Don’t tell me when you’re at the gym waiting for a bench you don’t look around and you know… wait, what are we talking about?

I hate waiting for the damn bench!

SpecialBrownie - March 10, 2010 reply

I dunno…I think if we find guys asses attractive? Which to that I say no…I just can’t get attracted buy a guy.

bross09 - March 11, 2010 reply

Harrison is obviously an exception as well. Have you seen his body of work?

Simmsinns - March 8, 2010 reply

I don’t get how either one can be called the “exception”.

You are right, sir.

It was a quick reply, more to call to attention the fact that despite things Gahnki mentioned, Harrison has posted damn good numbers when given the opportunity.

You answered him much better than I did, however.

Simmsinns - March 8, 2010 reply

yeah. I knew there HAD to be some good short RBs and I looked it up. the amount that are successful surprised me a bit.

build matters more than height. Taller backs are more injury prone.

I’ve been one of the few here calling for more Harrison since his big games in 2008. When he finally got those carries he did amazing. (Even record breaking at one point.)

The guy has been fantastic, and there’s good reason to think he will continue to do so, and very little to think otherwise.

I can support James Davis getting carries as a sort of whipping boy. Just to keep Harrison healthy and sustainable, as we’ve seen RBs can have shortened career spans when used too heavily.

Simmsinns - March 7, 2010 reply

The guy has been fantastic, and there’s good reason to think he will continue to do so, and very little to think otherwise.

No, there is an awful lot to think otherwise- the history of short, small runningbacks in the national football league. They simply do not last like bigger backs do. Although Harrison’s numbers were impressive in a limited capacity, it is foolish to extrapolate those numbers over a full season when backs of similar sizes struggle to maintain similar levels of production over time. It simply does not happen, except in the rarest of cases with MJD, who also benefited from being part of a tandem in the backfield for the majority of his career.

Small backs are simply not used as true number one backs in the NFL over any significant length of time.

And MJD has only really carried the load for one season.

Welcome Aboard Mr Pashos !

You have now entered the Browns ship and we set sail soon ! Its nice to see someone with less hair than me !!! Hope you can move the line and make some holes !

Muundog - March 7, 2010 reply

I love both of these signings. I don’t think either guy is a pro bowler. I do think both are solid players who will add depth to our team at the very least. Bowens played out of his mind last year, but I would not mind it if Fujita took his place, or if we moved Bowens back to OLB. It will be a disappointment if Pashos isn’t starting on the OL next year over St. Clair and Porkchop.