Captain Picard disproves of poor instructions.
Due to confusion, we are hitting Ctrl+Alt+Delete on the 2010 DBN Big Board.
We are starting over using an awesome new script into which Chris poured his blood sweat and tears, and I will try to explain the concept of what we are trying to do in a more clear way. And best of all, thanks to Chris' work, all votes will be collected, tallied, and factored in to the board. It just didn't feel right to start things off by counting less than 1/8th of the votes.
If you don't want to read the rest of this, you can skip to the "Our Draft Board" section below.
In real teams' war rooms, they probably have a physical board. Through countless hours of discussion, debate, film study, and philosophizing, teams will rank the players in some sort of order. They might simply chart the players from best to worst. They might use some sort of "tiered" system. They might rank all players at all positions. They might rank their needs. They might have several different plans for several different scenarios. (e.g. if Eric Berry is gone at our pick, trade down and wait on a Safety. If he is there, pick him and get other positions later.)
The bottom line is that somehow, someway, teams develop a plan for the draft beforehand so that they don't make multimillion dollar decisions that impact their entire franchise in the pressure-packed environment of the draft. Plan what you can now, make small adjustments and react later. The Big Board is a team's plan.
This is a mostly self explanatory term. "Needs" are positions where teams need to draft new players because the players they already have just don't cut it. Some of the Browns' (mostly agreed upon) needs are CB and S, for example.
Every team has needs, but the questions are:
1. What, exactly, are the Browns' needs?
2. How badly do we need new players at each of those positions?
3. How much of a boost should players get on the draft board because they play a position where we have a need? For example, if Eric Berry and Taylor Mays are gone when the Browns pick at 7, should they pick Nate Allen because he is the best Safety left? Should they turn to another need? Trade back? Take the best player available?
Different people have different views on the value at different positions. For me, value comes down to two things:
1. How big of an impact can a player at a given position have on the game? Bernie19Kosar has some great thoughts on drafting QBs (h/t). A lot of people think that Quarterbacks have a big impact on the game. Some might think players at the Center or Guard positions don't have a very big impact on the game.
2. How rare are good players at a given position? Great quarterbacks, for instance, are extremely rare. A lot of teams seem to be looking for great LTs and NTs too. Will good players at this position come around twice every draft? Once a year? Once every couple of years? Is it worth taking a flier on a player at this position in the first round, or can we wait until later in the draft for a solid player?
Another buzz word this time of year. To me, character can play a big part in deciding whether a player reaches his potential or not. Will he be in and out of jail? Will he be distracted by fame, fortune, etc? Will he be routinely suspended from the NFL? Is he a hard worker who will give effort in practice and the film rooms to improve, or will he take his huge signing bonus and be content? Does he really care about football?
Character may or may not matter to you with regard to the draft. Whether or not it matters and exactly how much it matters should be reflected in your rankings.
Our draft board will be a ranking of the players that are draft eligible, from best to worst. It should also take need, value, and character into account--if you think these things should be taken into account at all. If you always want the best player available, just rank them from best to worst.
Rank the top five available players. Take talent, value, need, and character into account if you think the Browns should take these things in to account when drafting.
Players will receive 5 points for every first place vote, 4 for every second place, and so on. They will receive 0 points if they are unranked. Total points from all ballots will be added, and the 5 players with the most votes will be taken out of the pool of available players and put up on the big board.
This is not a mock draft.
Don't predict what will happen
Don't think about other teams
Don't worry about who is available. (I will take players out of the vote-able pool once we put them on the board)
Just rank your guys in the order you would like to see them drafted by the Browns.
For instance, I think the top five players purely in terms of talent are:
1. Ndamukong Suh, DT
2. Eric Berry, S
3. Gerald McCoy, DT
4. Sam Bradford, QB
5. Anthony Davis, OT
6. Russell Okung, OT
Because of need, value, and character, my first ballot will look like this:
1. Suh
2. Berry
3. Bradford
4. Earl Thomas
5. Rolando McClain
Please vote only once.
VOTING HAS ENDED. PLEASE VOTE IN THE NEWEST POLL
Using the Scouts Inc. rankings (yes, I am aware of how much you hate Todd McShay) I will compile a pool of 25 draft eligible players. We will take a poll and rank players five at a time. New polls will happen every two days or so until the draft.
If there are players you think I should include in the draft-eligible pool--especially if they aren't coming up in McShay's rankings, let me know and I will put them in for the next poll.
0 recs | 413 comments
Thanks for doing this again, Rufio. And thanks to Chris for writing the script.
danvail - March 29, 2010
+1
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Picard>Kirk
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Stop.
danvail - March 29, 2010
Wow. Lighten up.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Just kidding around :)
danvail - March 29, 2010
Haha good because I was bout to lay the smackdown on you!
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Bill Adama > [(Kirk)(Picard)]^2
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
You mean Battlestar Galactica > Star Trek? I’d tend to agree.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
+1
Mr Orange - March 29, 2010
Great sig.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
Joe Thomas > Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
Best song ever. I so forgot about it!
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Trekies > no one
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
recced
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
I completely agree.
There are FOUR lights.
Simmsinns - March 29, 2010
Sisko > Picard > Kirk
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 29, 2010
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Man, no wonder he keeps his head shaved.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 29, 2010
There’s my cue to ignore this thread.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
It’s that easy to get rid of you? Noted for future reference.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 29, 2010
Oh and remember, NEVER WEAR RED AROUND KIRK.
YOU WILL DIE.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
I’m disappointed in you SB.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
Those are the only two lines of Star trek I know. Picard>Kirk and to never wear red.
My father was the Trekie buff. I’d just watch a few snippets with him.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Yeah right. I know you have a Leonard Nimoy fathead in your room.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
who doesn’t?
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Not me. I have Chubaka.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
I have a Klingon forehead though.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
chewbacca?
I would rather have Admiral Ackbar.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
Damn internet. Fooled me on the spelling. lol
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
Its okay…the internet is just a trap
bross09 - March 29, 2010
By far the best line in Star Wars.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
yeah. Ole Miss (the school) has a campaign to have Admiral Ackbar as their mascot…
bross09 - March 29, 2010
I’d vote Sandra Bullock.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
That’s no mascot…..it’s a space station!
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
It’s not the mascot they’re looking for
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Its not a mascot…IT’S A TRAP!!!
bross09 - March 29, 2010
how old are you that you didn’t just know how to spell chewbacca without looking it up?
Dawg Nuts - March 29, 2010
I’m 29 and don’t know how to spell it. Oh well.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
i t.
golanbatrac - March 29, 2010
?
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
Play on words.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
HIIIIIIIIIIYYYYYYYYY-OOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
I still don’t get it.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
Ed McMahon… Johnnie Carson show… Bueller…
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
lol I get that, but not the “i t”
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
You said this earlier.
Golan took it in the literal sense that you could not spell the word IT.
So he showed you how.
I-T.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
This is the second time in as many days that an easy to understand post of mine has required an explanation. Am I typing in Mandarin?
golanbatrac - March 29, 2010
I got it.
rufio - March 29, 2010
I got it too, it was funny
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Color me red. haha
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
Uhura never died.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
I never watched the original Star Treks in-depth, I just know of them and the general aspects about the characters. Are you referring to the infamous “the redshirts get killed” theme? Did that originate from Star Trek?
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
Yep.
golanbatrac - March 29, 2010
That and never be a green-skinned alien babe that sleeps with Kirk.
YOU WILL DIE.
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
By the way, not to try to influence the vote too much, but anyone that’s less than psyched about Delhomme and Wallace at QB might want to prioritize a QB that can be expected to step in within a year.
/cough Bradford /cough
danvail - March 29, 2010
What happened to Derrick Morgan?
Essentially, my board was the same as last time:
1) Sam Bradford
2) Eric Berry
3) Joe Haden
4) Kyle Wilson
5) Ndamukong Suh
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
Bradford
Haden
Suh
Berry
Okung
Andrew Tolliver - March 29, 2010
You are one of the theoretical Haden over Suh and Berry crowd? Care to expound?
danvail - March 29, 2010
the Suh disrespect is astounding.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
yeah, Suh should definitely be #1 or #2 on our big board. Srsly.
jaws. - March 29, 2010
Really. The guy is an undeniable monster.
danvail - March 29, 2010
Agreed.
Suh is about as “clean” as a prospect, at a premium position, as you will find now a days.
What is the worst thing about him? That he doesn’t weigh more?
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
and whether that’s a bad thing or not really depends on what position you want him to play.
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Knee injury history.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
touche.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
Also its exceedingly rare that a DT goes in the top 3 picks. DT isn’t as valuable a position as edge pass rushers and OT and QB.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
I think a pass rushing DT is even more valuable.
IMO, Kevin Williams is the best D-Lineman in the NFL.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
I disagree. Also disagree with Williams being the best DL in the league.
rufio - March 30, 2010
I should clarify. I think a pass rushing DT is more valuable than an edge pass rusher. Coin flip on the OT. Edge to the QB. Reason being, if a pass rusher is collapsing the middle every down, a QB will be no good. Even if he isn’t getting the sacks, pass rush in a QB’s face is 10x more disruptive than an edge rusher.
Who ya got as the D-Lineman?
The reason I named Williams is because I think he is a plus pass rusher and a plus run defender. Yes he is helped out with Pat Williams, but I think Kevin is fully rounded.
I would listen to an argument on Mario Williams and possibly Jared Allen. Haynesworth is consistent from down to down let alone year to year. Same for Julius Peppers. I don’t consider DeMarcus Ware a DLineman.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
Also, Haden at #2? You aren’t the only one Andrew. I’ve seen it a few other times on here. I don’t get it. He is a nice CB, but if you would seriously consider him as the 2nd best player in this draft, I just cannot understand.
Sure he gets a little bump if you think CB is a gaping hole on the team (though I’d argue that there are more obvious, bigger, and deeper holes to fill), but #2?!
I draft Haden at 7, IF my top 6 are all taken AND we can’t trade down. Even then, I’d probably consider 4 or 5 guys equal to Haden’s value.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
yes…the problem is still people rating guys purely on browns needs and considering too much what is available. i didn’t put haden in my top 5 and Okung made it. We don’t desperately need Okung but he is EASILY one of the top 5 players in the draft.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
Some people like to rate based heavily on need. That’s their prerogative. If the rest of us are not rating as much based on need, it won’t really matter.
rufio - March 29, 2010
maybe it isn’t a problem. I understand why they do it. I do take need into consideration but I want to envision what Holmgren and heckert think are the top 5 players in the draft and if they were building a team from scratch, the first 5 guys they would take.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
I don’t have Haden in my top 5. I think we can find as good a corner in the 2nd round. I think Haden is more Florida Hype than actual talent.
StuckInPa - March 30, 2010
The top 5 in total points right now are pretty clearly separated from the pack, and they aren’t ridiculous IMO.
If enough people think BPA is the way to go, and they agree on the BPA, that will show in the results. Same with need. I tend to think that BPA would be the best option right now (like you), but that’s why this isn’t my board, it’s our board.
rufio - March 30, 2010
exactly…
bross09 - March 30, 2010
BPA works with a few exceptions this year (left tackle, center, long snapper, return man, and mediocre linebacker all come to mind). If BPA is a left tackle that we don’t think work work on the right side, or is a bad value at right tackle, then we should skip down to the second best player available. We have lots of holes, but also some very solid career guys.
rebuilding year - March 30, 2010
I would say draft on needs. Look what
Cincy and Baltimores did. They signed some solid receivers oh yea and Boldin. I think we should draft to our conference. Mason killed us last year. Now they have Boldin too?!! Bradford or Barry is a toss up to me. Aftervthat I think defense needs addressed.
The naome40 - March 30, 2010 via mobile
It was damn tough for me to decide between Suh and Haden. If we could get back to back picks I’d take them both. I just figure our need is greater in the secondary.
Andrew Tolliver - March 30, 2010
but that doesn’t explain Haden over Berry. Berry is the far better prospect, and plays in the secondary.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
Chris, this program looks awesome. Nice work!
Roger Dorn - March 29, 2010
Agreed. I like the Browns colors.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Bradford
Berry
Wilson
Bryant
Suh
deemac3248 - March 29, 2010
WTF? Kyle Wilson over Suh?
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
Better recognize!
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
Browns will trade to get the Redskins pick at Number 4 over all
If Suh, Gerald McCoy, Berry are available the Browns will trade the number 7 pick over all and the 71st and the 85th or 92nd picks to get the number 4 pick overall , that is if Sam Bradford is not available at number 4 that belongs to the Redskins. Washington will select Bradford if he is there (He wont be). Washington can trade down and still get Claussen.
I like one of the offensive tackles, but they wont select them, I still think they need defensive help.
champion64 - March 29, 2010
In this scenario, Suh, Berry AND McCoy have to be available when the Redskins pick at 4?
That is quite a task my friend.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
I meant if any of the three are available not all three available. Most likey it will be Berry. The Browns would take any of the three who are available at the number 4 spot. I did not think all or even two would be available at that spot.
Lets say the Rams take Bradford, that means Washington can trade down to number 7 and still get Claussen and pick up one if not two third round picks. The Browns have 3 third round picks.
I saw they go after Berry if her is there. I again like the OT, but I dont know if they will use that pick for an OT when they need so much on the defensive side of the ball too.
champion64 - March 29, 2010
I rule out a Washington trade down. Claussen might be there and they shouldn’t take the risk of trading it to us especially. With all the smokescreen going around who knows if we took Claussen and spoiled the Redskins plans instead?
skipkirk - March 30, 2010
Random question
but as a QB option is there anything wrong with Lefevour? I haven’t seen a whole lot of discussion on here about him.
navycavsfan - March 29, 2010
We did talk about him a lot before our discussions switched mainly to the first round pick. Plus there isn’t anything saying that Holmgren is interested in him right now.
I personally like the kid.
Brownie's Year - March 29, 2010
To add on to what BY is saying, one of the minions (B19K) did some research and came to the conclusion that QBs outside of the first round have and impossibly small chance of becoming quality starters. So, anyone that wants a new starter should look at round one QBs.
danvail - March 29, 2010
But Holmgren likes to take QBs in the later rounds. He said he thinks it give them time to develop and not be pressured to become the starter. I kinda think that if Tebow is there for our first third round pick we would grab him.
The Brown Note - March 29, 2010
Right.
Always remember when people do mock drafts and the like- huge difference in what you think WILL happen and what you think SHOULD happen.
We may all think drafting a QB late is dumb, but we might as well evaluate guys like LeFevour, Tebow, McCoy, Pike, Clark, etc. because our President has basically said we are drafting one of these guys.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
Out of this list, I want Colt.
Roger Dorn - March 29, 2010
Agreed.
danvail - March 29, 2010
John Skelton. I have a feeling that that’s our guy.
golanbatrac - March 29, 2010
I like it.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
That’d rock if he was #10. Time to tape over my Quinn jersey!
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Yes sir.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Yes.
I don’t know much about Skelton.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Agreed. But, I think there is a good chance Colt goes way earlier than the others. I heard one of the ESPN guys say some are considering him late in the first round and second round for sure. I wouldn’t mind him early in the second, but it seems clear that Colt is separating himself from the rest of the pack as the #3 QB in this draft.
And since I see Claussen doing a Quinn-like drop, they might be drafted a lot closer than most of the mocks currently have them.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
If we traded back up into the late first to draft him would that make him fit into Bernie’s draft a QB in the first only policy? Bernie?
StuckInPa - March 29, 2010
Sure.
I don’t want the 32nd pick be some sort of invisible barrier. I think it would be more of a moving barrier.
In a loaded draft like this one, many players that will be picked in the middle of the second round would be first rounders in other seasons. I am not going to think that McCoy will be a star at pick 32 but a bum at 37. The draft is a fluid study from year to year. The first round was just a natural barrier. You start getting around 10 picks into the second, I would think you are probably out of the comfort zone.
I personally think that McCoy is a top 15 player in this draft and the second best QB in the draft. I would be elated if we could get him in the second round.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
I too would be elated if we picked him in the second. I’m just worried with all the hype he’s starting to get as draft day approaches. I’m not sure what team picking towards the end of the first round would need a first round backup QB. I think they have too many other needs.
Do you think he’s worth our 38th then?
StuckInPa - March 30, 2010
Minnesota would be a sneaky pick.
Stash him for a year (or six) behind Favre.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
Damn. That’s a very real possibility.
StuckInPa - March 30, 2010
Maybe we could give up a 3rd and 4th and move up a few spots. Although, that sounds awful Brady-esque.
StuckInPa - March 30, 2010
I don’t see it. He doesn’t have the arm to go that high and just isn’t an improvement at all over Jackson or Sage.
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
disagree on all of this.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
I keep hearing that Colt McCoy doesn’t have the strongest arm.
I think this is overrated at every turn.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
I agree. Sure he’s no Derek Anderson, but he can make all the throws. anything above that is nice, but not essential.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
If we’re drafting him, let’s hope not.
emily522 - March 30, 2010
I laughed a little when i typed that
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
well played. rec.
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
I’ve seen video of McCoy flicking a 45 yard pass.
I’ll take a very accurate, smart, high character QB with decent arm strength over someone like DA again.
emily522 - March 30, 2010
This.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 31, 2010
It is somewhat overrated, but watch his deep (er) throws (there are hardly any). They all float and I am concerned that he doesn’t have the strenght to make all of the necessary throws.
His size is a small concern too. (no pun intended)
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
I have watched a lot of tape on McCoy.
From my amateur scouting view, I see a QB who doesn’t possess an arm cannon. This being said, I almost never see a throw he can’t make. He doesn’t have the same snap of a Clausen, but he isn’t throwing lollipops out there.
He throws the ball on the run better than anyone in the draft and he is very good deep accuracy. He throws the ball with great touch even deeper down field.
If McCoy was 2 inches taller and had a stronger arm, he would be battling Bradford for the number one pick.
As for the small size concern, he never had an injury issue until the NC game. He ran the ball and took some good licks. I think he is tough kid.
Bernie19Kosar - March 31, 2010
The real thing to look for would be a throw that should have been zipped in to a tight spot between a receiver and the sideline and was too slow getting there.
Or difficult completed throws to the field side of the field.
Just because a guy has touch on all of his throws doesn’t mean he can’t throw it hard. Especially when he is completing 70+% of his passes.
rufio - March 31, 2010
danvail - March 31, 2010
Wishful thinking, likely, but intriguing…
danvail - March 31, 2010
But he’s not.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
TheRealSlimShady - March 31, 2010
still want to say McCoy can’t make all the throws after that pro day?
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
F’’’ pro days.
If prodays mattered, Jamarcus Russell would be the best QB in the NFL. ALMOST EVERY QB prospect has a “good” pro day.
TheRealSlimShady - March 31, 2010
I think you’ve won that point.
Western Reserve - April 1, 2010
but a pro day doesn’t grant you more arm strength. he still had to throw deep outs, and he did it.
notthatnoise - April 1, 2010
TRSS’s post also highlights the ridiculousness of looking at arm strength too closely.
rufio - April 1, 2010
Agree.
emily522 - March 30, 2010
McShay doesn’t have Clausen in the top 32 overall player rankings. Maybe Walterfootball should lecture him.
rufio - March 30, 2010
movethesticks.com, written by a former scout, keeps saying that Clausen will fall out of the first round.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
yeah…plus we all know all the work McShay did in the field as a scout…so this scout must be wrong…
bross09 - March 30, 2010
what? they agree with each other.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
true…I meant to say Kiper I think…then I started making a joke on the account of McShay, and now it looks stupid
bross09 - March 30, 2010
if claussen falls to the 2nd, i think i’d still rather pick mccoy with our 2nd than claussen.
Dawg Nuts - March 30, 2010
I do remember seeing that, and not believe it.
Yet, agreeing with it.
Ryan Kelsey - March 30, 2010
McShay is clearly an irrational Notre Dame hater
Roger Dorn - March 30, 2010
Oh, give us a break. The door swings both ways around here on this, and I suspect you know it.
Western Reserve - March 30, 2010
No thanks. I am tired of the overreactions. People are allowed to disagree, so to come up with these phony reasons for being biased is my objection.
Roger Dorn - March 30, 2010
I hear you, just was pointing out that you can witness varying degrees of irrationality from not just one side but from both sides.
Western Reserve - March 30, 2010
Yes agreed. My comment was facetious though. The opponents are dead serious when they call Clausen doubters irrational.
Roger Dorn - March 30, 2010
Probably likes Ohio State too.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
I would say that a person who says Clausen is too short to be an NFL QB that is 6’2.5 is irrational.
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
Ewww
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
Who would you suggest out of that list then?
emily522 - March 30, 2010
That doesn’t mean I have to like it.
danvail - March 29, 2010
1. Clausen
2. Berry
3. Graham
4. Suh
5. Wilson
The Licensed Pessimist - March 29, 2010
So if we take Berry over Clausen are you going to be really upset or will you be relatively pleased?
Roger Dorn - March 29, 2010
Probably be kinda pissed. I would probably actually rather have Graham over Berry now that I think about since getting pressure on the QB does more for a secondary than a good S ever could. But I would probably be upset since the the difference between the later round QB’s compared to Clausen is huge, and the difference between Berry and Earl Thomas or even Nate Allen isn’t as great
The Licensed Pessimist - March 29, 2010
But I think either berry will be taken and clausen will be available or clausen will be taken and berry will be available.
The Licensed Pessimist - March 29, 2010
Way to be in lockstep with Walterfootball. Does he spoonfeed you your applesauce too? He could write an article that fullback was the best position with witch to use a high pick and you would be on here the next day claiming we should draft a fullback.
jaws. - March 29, 2010
Well, a witch with a fullback does sound like an interesting pick. . . . Fullback jumps on his broom with the ball and goes right over the d-line. Also, if the NFL outlaws brooms, the FB could cast a spell on the defense allowing Jerome Harrison to rush for 300 yards/game.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
hahaha
jaws. - March 29, 2010
lol. I was thinking the same thing. He could just cast a shield charm in front of the running back or an impediment jinx and knock someone backwards…no unforgivable curses though, that would be a personal foul.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
Supposedly, all wand related bans were written after the first game when there were over 600 fouls.
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
Quiddich Through the ages???
bross09 - March 29, 2010
Is there any other book that J.K. Rowling originally wrote for charity before it was officially published for public market?
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
actually yeah…I believe fantastic beasts and where to find them was also like this.
I can’t find my copies of either though…I did buy the charity copies but I don’t mind a rebuy.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
Let me clarify. Is there any other book that J.K. Rowing originally wrote about Quidditch for charity before it was officially published for public market?
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
nope…
bross09 - March 30, 2010
Who the hell do you think you are? You don’t have the right to address me with that hostility. For one, I’ve never even had an exchange with you for you to act like you know me. And two, aren’t you the idiot who keep talking about bringing in Troy Smith in every one of your posts on this board? I’ll turn the question around, are you Troy Smith’s butt-boy? STFD
The Licensed Pessimist - March 30, 2010
It’s okay, nobody likes him.
SpecialBrownie - March 30, 2010
eh, I’m indifferent to him. He gets fixated on certain players but he’s never more than a minor annoyance, and usually he’s ok.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
You’re one to complain about people not having a right to address you with hostility. In a different thread you called me an irrational hater, which isn’t anything to be upset about, but then you said: “you’re reasoning is shit.” and launched into a diatribe about how I couldn’t read and had a small vocabulary.
so in summary, your comment is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
I just call it hypocrisy.
Roger Dorn - March 30, 2010
I’ve never even had a conversation with the man before, and I’ve just recently seen him post on the board. So its strange for him to call me out like we’ve debated before or something. You on the other hand came strong at me first, and I was just responding to your attacks and silly logic.
If Rufio, Dorn or you came at me this strong I wouldn’t be surprised
The Licensed Pessimist - March 30, 2010
It’s all for the spirit of debate. I am trying to avoid personal stuff and focusing on the arguments themselves.
Roger Dorn - March 30, 2010
It hard when there is such a group-think and gang mentality that goes on with the board. So much instigation and ganging up. So it’s not hypocrisy because I don’t have a problem with people being hostile towards me. But If some brand new guy who I’ve never even seen calls me out and acts hostile, especially when its not even a debate, its a little uncalled for
The Licensed Pessimist - March 30, 2010
there is definitely a bit of group-think, but i think you’re making it out to be worse than it is. there are plenty of differing opinions here.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
…as well as well-defined opinions. I think it’s safe to say that most of the regulars here do not make bold declarations without at least attempting to back them up with reason and are willing to admit when an opinion is just a gut-feeling. That is, it’s all debatable.
danvail - March 30, 2010
I agree to an extent about ganging up, but that is the territory when someone is in the minority opinion. I’ve seen group think accusations on LGT and here as well, and I tend to think that is just how the minority opinion likes to portray their opposition, but I can see why you would think that way.
Roger Dorn - March 30, 2010
exactly. I rarely try to attack another. personal stuff just isn’t cool. it doesn’t win arguments anyways, it just makes you look like an ass when you use them.
bross09 - March 30, 2010
rec
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
You have 0 room to talk. He supported Clausen before that article. At least he doesn’t have a hard one for a certain former buckeye QB.
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
at least jaws isn’t going around throwing out ad hominems irrationally like rocland.
bross09 - March 30, 2010
he has a hard one for a notre dame player, how is that any different?
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
Who? ROCLAND?
IF that is what they you are saying, you are very hipocritical.
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
I think this is what he meant.
Villeslgr - March 31, 2010
he has a “hard one” for clausen. he defends Clausen with as much vigor as jaws talking about Smith.
how am I being “hipocritical?”
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
Among the bugs I intend to fix before the next poll gets released…
-Preventing the “DE/OLB” position label from being truncated to “DE/”
-Having the list arranged in ABC order by first name.
If people see other bugs, let me know. As of this post, 173 people have cast votes.
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
Thanks for doing this, btw. If you’re going to alphabetically arrange the list, maybe it would be better to do it by last name. Makes it easier from a name recognition standpoint.
navycavsfan - March 29, 2010
I thought about that, though in my initial design (and my attempt to make the form shorter for rufio), I only included a “name” box. I could still do the ABC order thing on last name by searching the name field for the first SPACE it encounters, but then data entry errors (i.e. forgetting to put a space) are subject to not being sorted correctly. I’ll see, since typically players are sorted by their last names…
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
SELECT Concat(SUBSTRING_INDEX(pname, ’ ’, -1), ’, ’, SUBSTRING_INDEX(pname, ’ ’, 1)) AS formatname, position, college FROM `player` WHERE sid = 2 ORDER BY formatname ASC
(reference to myself of query for when I get to the PHP file later)
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
I wouldn’t mind doing another box for the last name if that is easier for you. I almost put some people’s last names as their schools.
rufio - March 29, 2010
Na, the code I wrote above should work, as long as you always do a name like this:
Eric Berry
…and not like this…
EricBerry
Eric-Berry
Eric.Berry
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
Okay, I fixed the bugs listed in the first post I made in this tree. Names in the poll are sorted by last name.
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
ok, now you’re just showing off. ;-)
doggrad87 - March 30, 2010
Indeed :-D
Chris Pokorny - March 30, 2010
1. berry
2. haden
3. iupata
4. balogna
5. okung
golanbatrac - March 29, 2010
No Suh at all?
danvail - March 29, 2010
Nah. I’m all about taking O-line in the first every year. It’d be all O-line if it weren’t for the very real possibility that we could head into next season with Brandon McDonald as a starter.
golanbatrac - March 29, 2010
that possibility keeps me up at night. I can’t watch tackling like that for another 16 games.
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
I have O-Line behind S, LB, WR, and QB on my list of needs. Plus, Suh is good enough to blow your needs list up.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
This was my thinking.
Suh and Berry are too good to pass up. Best players bar none in this draft. If Bradford is there I wouldn’t hate taking him.
After that, the only sure thing I see is Iupati. We need a sure thing. Suh, Berry and Iupati who I fully expect to be a Pro Bowler.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Honestly, after those three I start thinking about all kinds of reaches.
Which is why trading down would be awesome if none of them are left.
I have Clausen, Thomas, Graham, Dan Williams, Bulaga, McClain, Iupati, and Haden all in that next group, and I’d love to be sitting at 11-12 to scoop up the best one of them left.
rufio - March 29, 2010
My dream situation is that San Fran decides they have to have Player X and gives us their two first rounders.
I can dream right?
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
they would literally surgically remove their own testicles before they made that trade… if they were smart. Plus I don’t see them doing such a bold move with a new GM who just got promoted a month before the draft.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
replace Clausen with Dez Bryant and I’m right there with you.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
there is no sure thing. Any player can bust. You’re awful high on Iupati. Granted i love the guy too but he is pretty raw in pass pro. And he is only a guard.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
He is a beast. Put on any tape of his and he just dominates. Look at the Boise State game tape from this season. Idaho ran for 150 yards behind him. In a game they lost by 40.
You can go back to ’07 against USC. He is a man amongst boys. He is so strong at the POA. His footwork is great and he moves like a man who is 75lbs lighter.
Everytime I watch him, I see Steve Hutchinson. I keep saying it, we will look back in 5 years and wonder why the 3 time Pro Bowl RG/RT was passed over for a CB. Would you trade our first rounder for a 23 YO Steve Hutchinson? Add in the fact that offensive lineman are almost always worth their draft pick, I see him as a no-brainer.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
If nothing else, this is a good sell job. Iupati is probably 6 on my (meaningless) board and my 4-10 is pretty mushy right now. He might be moving up.
Ryan Kelsey - March 30, 2010
I should be his agent.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
Its simple: Guards don’t effect the outcome of games nearly as much as CBs
He could be the greatest guard of all time and still not have all that much effect on the Browns record. Not as much as a LT, QB, pass rusher or CB. Thats why those positions make vastly more money. Granted, I still love iupati if we trade down, I’d hate to see him go to the steelers at #18
jaws. - March 30, 2010
Guards don’t, but great guards do. Iupata has the stink of Steve Hutchinson all over him. If he’s not a game changer at guard inside of three years, I’ll eat my hat.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
Operative words: game changer. The vikings need their pass rush and Brett Favre much more than they need steve Hutchinson.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
Wrong.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
The Browns have the best LT in the league. And a bad record.
TheRealSlimShady - March 30, 2010
Yeah, but they also spent most of the year with Quinn under center. Not even Joe Thomas can overcome the South Bend Suckage.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
This argument has real potential. Enlighten us, gentlemen.
Western Reserve - March 31, 2010
hahaha, I can’t wait for the rebuttal
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
joe thomas can overcome anything. including your insult.
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
Have you been pancaked yet Golan?
North Coast Flea - March 31, 2010
seriously though, i agree. the best OL in history won’t win games with a historically awful QB, but they can damn sure win a ton of games with an average QB.
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
What an ignorant statement.
Look at the Seattle Seahawks.
2005 (with Hutchinson) Shaun Alexander had 1880 yards, 5.1 YPC and 27 TD’s and won the MVP.
2006 (without Hutchinson) Shaun Alexander had 896 yards, 3.6 YPC, 7 TD’s and couldn’t do anything on the ground.
Only change was Hutchinson.
But please, by all means keep up the thinking that a guard can have no effect in winning football games.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
don’t forget the career high in rushing yards chester taylor had in 2006.
bross09 - March 30, 2010
I should have mentioned that.
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
You weren’t arguing for QBs or DE/OLBs. You were arguing for CBs.
I’d take LT, QB, or pass rusher easily. But we already have JT, there probably won’t be a QB at the pick, and the pass rushers that are elite in this draft scare me (Morgan with transitioning, JPP with bustitude).
And it isn’t a straight positional battle, either. I bet Iupati is way better at his position than Haden in the NFL.
rufio - March 31, 2010
This is the one reason I like Iupati. If we can’t get berry I’d be all for trading down to 13-15 and taking either Earl Thomas or Iupati, but not at #7. We’d have the two highest paid guards in the NFL on totally immovable contracts.
jaws. - April 1, 2010
False. You can game plan around a CB. You can run the ball. You can throw away from a CB. Guards would be essential on every snap.
Tell that to Steve Hutchinson, Eric Steinbech, Leonard Davis etc., etc., etc.
Again, if you think he is the BPA, then who gives a damn where everyone else thinks he should be drafted?
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
Honestly, I would probably rather “reach” for Graham at 7th than take Morgan or JPP at this point.
rufio - March 31, 2010
I would be fine with Graham at 7.
Considering I had him at 5 on my Big Board, this shouldn’t be a surprise.
Bernie19Kosar - March 31, 2010
hahaha…I dunno if you misspelled some of the names on purpose but the misspellings are funny. I don’t care that much about spelling mistakes, but who wouldn’t want balogna on their Offensive line…next we can get salami and terkey and we can have the Deli meat blocking scheme.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
we’ve already got porkchop
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
thats true…I forgot about him. man him and balogna…what a tandem if they both play guards…we can mack on a balogna and porkchop sandwich…
bross09 - March 29, 2010
(and forgot) wash it down with a nice cold boch.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
1. Suh
2. Berry
3. Iupati
4. B. Price
5. Graham (I have officially switch bandwagons after Morgan’s pro day. I still really like Morgan, just not at 7.)
Reason I didn’t select a QB is because I think we should clean the rest of the house before we bring in a QB. If I was forced to pick a QB from this draft class it would be down to Bradford or McCoy.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Looking at the results page thus far (not shown to you guys yet), it’s fascinating to see how a player with way more first-place votes than another play is just about tied with a player without any first-place votes since they have so many second-place votes. It clearly shows the feeling fans have toward either wanting to address a position in the first round or not wanting to address it until later rounds/next year.
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
I am guessing it is Bradford and Suh for the top spot?
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
I was guessing Berry and Bradford.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
I think Bradford and Suh. That’s what I went for anyway. Followed by:
Berry
Thomas
Haden
skipkirk - March 30, 2010
Suh
Berry
Haden
Earl Thomas
Iupati
jaws. - March 29, 2010
I get a Glenn Dorsey feeling with McCoy
The Licensed Pessimist - March 29, 2010
For a second I was confused about Glenn/Ken Dorsey and Colt/Gerald McCoy. Interesting similar analogy.
danvail - March 29, 2010
Weeiird. I agree about G. McCoy, but it’s just a gut feeling.
rufio - March 29, 2010
Bradford
Suh
Berry
Okung
McCoy
This was submitted before I read about Bradford’s pro day today. He is a no brainer for me now at this point.
Roger Dorn - March 29, 2010
I’m sad that he’s gone from decent chance of being available and not many wanting him to no chance of being available and a lot (or at least some) of DBN fan’s #1.
danvail - March 29, 2010
From what it sounds like, he cemented the deal to go number one.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
What’d he do at the pro-day?
I still think we take Colt McCoy. I don’t see how the Rams don’t take Bradford.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Here ya go.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Damn. Rams would be dumb not to take him in my opinion.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Yup. And in the extremely unlikely event he gets past the Rams, he ain’t getting past the Redskins or Seahawks — at least not with us giving up a ton of value to get there. His stock is up.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
Actually, if he gets past St Louis, I wouldn’t be shocked by us trading with Detroit — they apparently want to trade down. But again, it would probably cost us next year’s first rounder and at least a 3rd from this year. Worth it? If he’s the next Peyton Manning, yes. But that is a huge “if”, and I’d be really nervous about such a move.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
I’d rather take a defensive player at #7 and roll the dice on a 2nd round QB, either McCoy or Tebow.
jaws. - March 29, 2010
I don’t think there will be another Peyton Manning, he’s a different breed. There will be other great QBs obviously, but I don’t think anyone will ever bring his approach to the game. For some reason when I think of Manning I see him as growing up an adult in a child’s body, he just always seems so mature and composed.
Villeslgr - March 29, 2010
Really? I see a robot with a laser/rocket arm.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
I see an awesome mustache….
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
AAAAHHHH!!! It’s an evil robot come to destroy our playoff hopes by not playing. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
It has been rumored that we have a trade option with Detroit lined up.
rufio - March 29, 2010
Yep. I’m afraid.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Of drafting Bradford?
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Of the havoc we’d reek. So many options!
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Could we be trading up to 2 so KC doesn’t grab Berry? That’s a possibility, right?
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Suh>Berry
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
Ah, duh.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
As far as BPA, sure. But as far as what the Browns should be looking at,
Berry > Suh
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
So wrong.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
If he thinks secondary’s our biggest need, then he’s right. It’s kind of an opinion thing.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
It’s more than that. I don’t know how Suh would fit into our 3-4 scheme. And after the Corey Williams fiasco, I don’t want to be giving top 5 money to a guy that has the great potential to be a great misfit in our system.
BrownDawg1409 - March 29, 2010
He’s a perfect fit for our DE. Huge with speed.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
I think he’d be perfect, too. So strong at the POA. Clearly good at drawing/defeating double-teams. Can rush the passer a little without having to vacate his run responsibilities.
G. McCoy is the player more similar to Williams, IMO.
rufio - March 30, 2010
Absolutely right. Of the two only Suh really fits our scheme. He would be perfect as a 5tech.
McCoy is much more of a tampa 2 DT, hence the reason some people have tampa taking him even over suh.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
That’s also another eason I don’t trust either top DT in this draft. I remember reading about the schemes of each player played in at their respective schools. Suh’s was tie up blockers while McCoy’s had him penatrating more per scheme. Suh would be the better fit, sure. But I’m not sure better translates into ‘can play in’.
I don’t have anything against Suh, but I really don’t see him as a 3-4 guy.
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
He did way more than that though. He threw the blockers off him and got to the QB as well. Joy to watch.
skipkirk - March 30, 2010
can you elaborate on this? It seems to me he proved he can play in that type of system if he did it in college.
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
I suppose it’s hypocrosy to support Haden, Berry or Bradford over Suh seeing as how I’ve never seen any for myself, but I’m just not believing all they hype that Suh is producing.
But I reserve the right to say that I’ve never seen Suh for myself while having seen plenty of guys who were splitting double and triple teams (Glenn Dorsey or B.J. Raji anyone?).
Again, this is probably hypocracy, but it’s easier to believe the stuff that’s being reported on guys like Haden, Berry and Bradford than Suh.
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
Raji is going to be good for quite some time in this league.
I was 100% against him last draft also, so what do I know?
Bernie19Kosar - March 30, 2010
Granted, the juries still out on Raji. But I just havn’t heard anything about him any time I was listening to ESPN talk radio. Nadda, zilch. Other than the hold out of course…
I’ll admit that my stance isn’t one based on logic, no matter what points I’ve come up with. I just really don’t like Suh.
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
Does ESPN talk radio ever venture outside of Manning, FAvre, Brady talk? I would be shocked if they had a discussion on D-lineman once in an entire season.
Roger Dorn - March 31, 2010
Anyone who employs Colin Cowherd to talk sports, doesn’t care what the listeners think.
Bernie19Kosar - March 31, 2010
i like colin cowherd.
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
Cowherd is so clueless that it is hilarious.
TheRealSlimShady - March 31, 2010
yeah. I used to get the thundering herd podcast…I had an order of podcasts the day I would listen to (and would sometimes skip some). I would listen to my least favorite first. the thundering herd was my most skipped and was always first so I decided not to subscribe anymore…now for me it is fantasy, mike and mike, and PTI, and ATH.
bross09 - March 31, 2010
I got Mike Golic’s autograph at the ND-Nevada game this year. Just sayin.
TheRealSlimShady - March 31, 2010
thats pretty cool. he seems like a cool, laid back guy. plus he is a very good former player analyst. most of the talking heads were QBs but its cool for one of the intelligent analysts to be a hard nosed player (like stink…and I happen to love both’s analysis)
bross09 - April 1, 2010
plus golic is a browns fan.
bross09 - April 1, 2010
Dorsey was very up and down over his career and from game to game, and from play to play. Dominant one play, lazy the next. Hurt often.
Dorsey is the “penetrating 3 technique” that G. McCoy is supposed to be, and he is playing in a scheme that is probably a bad fit (a 2-gapping 3-4)
Suh just threw people around. Teams were double and triple teaming him and he was still winning blocks. He’s ridiculous. He is very strong and should be able to do everything asked of him in a 3-4, and be versatile enough to rush the passer a little on passing downs.
rufio - March 31, 2010
Suh was absolutely dominant this past year, like I have never seen before. I watched a lot of Raji in college and he came nowhere close to that.
Roger Dorn - March 31, 2010
“tie up blockers” is the job description of all 30 front linemen. Suh is the absolute IDEAL fit at 3-4 DE
jaws. - March 30, 2010
I still won’t believe it till’ I see it.
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
and the argument can be made that Berry is the BPA. I don’t believe so but they are almost like 1 and 1A now when it comes to talent and how scouts look at them.
bross09 - March 29, 2010
Honestly, I’d be ecstatic if we got either.
rufio - March 30, 2010
Honestly, I like that idea more than sitting at 7 and picking someone like Bulaga, Rolando McClain, etc.
rufio - March 29, 2010
Refer to comment right above yours…
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
where did this rumor originate? is it something I could reasonably expect to occur or is it just a crazy pre-draft rumor?
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Maybe it is… maybe it isn’t.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
i shouldn’t have asked. It should be obvious that its a smokescreen
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Smokescreen… haven’t heard that word in awhile haha.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
That was a smokescreen as well.
Villeslgr - March 29, 2010
Smokescreen consulting.
You need help.
SpecialBrownie - March 29, 2010
I believe Mangini said something about “not ruling out” trading up to Detroit’s pick.
Obviously, take everything with a huge grain of salt this time of year.
rufio - March 30, 2010
What would it take? A 3rd rounder and next year’s first?
skipkirk - March 30, 2010
What if it is for Clausen?
Could the servers hold up?
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
I’d renounce the Browns for good.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
1. Meh. Bad trade, risky-ish pick that could turn out to be huge.
2. No.
rufio - March 30, 2010
ugh.. I don’t want to pay #2 money to anybody. Not even Suh. On top of that, to get to the #2 pick would be ludicrously costly in terms of draft picks.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
I don’t think we would be giving up draft value chart equivalent picks. I think we would move up for less than that.
rufio - March 30, 2010
even so, the highest I’d want to move up is #5. the higher picks are just too costly, especially for defensive players. every pick before #12 is overpaid.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
I think the Browns will work a deal to get Berry.
If Bradford is gone. Washington wants Bradford if they can get him at the number 4 pick. If not they will trade down.
champion64 - March 29, 2010
No chance they take Clausen?
danvail - March 29, 2010
I don’t think that even Al Davis is that crazy.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
speaking of al davis…did everyone hear they are (supposedly) are working out a deal for mcnabb?
brownsMania - March 29, 2010
Poor McNabb.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
McNabb will never agree to an extension with the Raiders.
North Coast Flea - March 29, 2010
Never underestimate the value of a crap load of dollars.
Right DeAngelo?
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
this picture is frickin hilarious
The Licensed Pessimist - March 30, 2010
Berry
Suh
Bradford
Thomas
Haden
emily522 - March 29, 2010
I’m agreeing with most everybody else, having Berry at 1. My reasoning is that unless we plan on switching to a 4-3 (which as far as I understand we aren’t) we need to build up with our DB & LB… so my list is as follows
1. Berry
2. Suh (still a best)
3. McClain
4. E Thomas
5. Okung
Why has no one ranked McClain at all??
brownsMania - March 29, 2010
Because not many people think he’s a top five player.
danvail - March 29, 2010
obviously, but what are their reasons for him not being a top 5 player.
brownsMania - March 29, 2010
There are others that are better: Suh, Bradford, Berry for sure. Okung is more valuable but not really to us. McCoy is also a better prospect by most accounts, though he’s not necessarily a great fit here. ILB just isn’t a hugely valuable position that high in the draft – you need a player of epic potential (kinda like Berry is for safety).
danvail - March 29, 2010
MLB just doesn’t have that much effect on the game anymore. Not nearly as much as QB or pass rusher or offensive tackle.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis.
But there are only two MLBs alive who can make that kind of impact.
rufio - March 30, 2010
I knew we should have picked patrick willis.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
If the 49ers were a playoff team, he’d get so much hype.
rufio - March 30, 2010
AGREED
willis is a beast
brownsMania - March 30, 2010
They are also 3-4 backers, where they take on more important roles than their 4-3 counter parts.
BrownDawg1409 - March 30, 2010
Once again:
1. Suh
(big drop-off)
2. Berry
3. Bradford
(gigantic huge drop-off)
4. Bryant
5. McClain
After my top 3 nobody excites me in the top 20. If we come away with one of the top 3, I’ll be pumped.
Also, still think Haden is overrated.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
I don’t see how Bradford gets behind Berry. Also, McCoy? Do you know something that everyone else doesn’t about him?
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
Most people on here are not fans of Gerald McCoy.
I have been crapping on the dude for almost 6 months now.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Can’t quite put my finger on it, but something is holding me back from being as sold on Bradford. His ceiling is obviously higher than Berry’s, but since Berry is so safe and QB’s carry so much extra risk (and cost), I have Berry over Bradford.
Won’t really argue if you have those two flipped.
McCoy? I don’t know. He didn’t stand out to me in the games I watched. Not as much as Suh or even Terrence Cody. Any mention of McCoy in the same tier as Suh is crazy. Think of it this way: look at Suh’s numbers, then look at McCoy’s. They played in the same conference. Suh was probably triple-teamed more than McCoy was double-teamed. So my thought? Top 10? Fine. Top 5? Maybe. Top 3? No way.
Ryan Kelsey - March 29, 2010
McCoy is a different kind of player. Could be an elite Warren Sapp type of player in the tampa 2 scheme. Slightly undersized but fantastic speed and jump off the ball. He could be a major force in the defensive line in one gap schemes.
Suh has the Knee injury history and could end up being just an average player in the NFL. You never know what might happen.
jaws. - March 30, 2010
Suh’s floor might be an average player in the NFL. Fine.
But I don’t see the McCoy upside. Warren Sapp wasn’t undersized. And he was really freaking fast for a 300 lb-er. He dominated at the highest levels in college. McCoy is averagely fast, not overwhelmingly strong and disappeared for entire games against good competition.
Maybe you meant to say “Suh” in your first paragraph. Much better comp for Sapp, actually.
Ryan Kelsey - March 30, 2010
Gerald McCoy is 6’4" 295, pretty similar size to sapp.
McCoy isn’t the strongest lineman, neither was sapp.
McCoy and sapp both relied on speed and agility and getting off the ball quickly.
McCoy and Sapp both fit the tampa 2 scheme perfectly ( slightly undersized pass rush oriented one-gap DTs)
jaws. - March 30, 2010
Sapp was 6’2 and his playing weight was around 310-315 pounds and at one point got all the way up to over 330 (and he was still effective). He was quick but he was also an extremely strong lineman. He had great speed and agility for his size but he was also a huge dude. He was stout against the run and was a big, hard hitter type of lineman.
Imagine Kevin Williams’ Body and body type, combined with the speed and agility of a pat williams. this was a guy who could play the 3 tech or 2 tech. he could stop the run, bull rush, or just flat out use his agility to get to the QB.
bross09 - March 30, 2010
I think you have the Williamses switched.
rufio - March 31, 2010
yeah. I just noticed that when you said it…why do they have to have the same name?!?!?!
bross09 - March 31, 2010
I couldn’t tell ya.
rufio - March 31, 2010
yeah…I hope you understood what I meant anyways.
bross09 - March 31, 2010
brothers from another mother
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
Here’s the thing. You’ve compared McCoy to Sapp’s weaknesses (though Sapp was much heavier, lower to the ground and stronger). On Sapp’s high points (speed), McCoy doesn’t even come close. Check their 40 times, check their sack numbers in college, check their accolades in college, check their gamelogs in college, check the tape.
McCoy may be a good players someday, but that is a lot of projection for a guy talked about in the top 5. There just isn’t much to back it up. What part of his game or physique is elite? Point me to a time when he dominated in the Big 12.
Ryan Kelsey - March 30, 2010
1. Suh
2. Bradford
3. McCoy
4. Berry
5. Okung
That’s how I think I voted, but now I would consider switching 1 & 2 — the reviews of Bradford at his pro-day are off the charts.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 29, 2010
I hid that chain of comments that caused controversy above. It should be obvious to everyone to refrain from unnecessary comments, or else (Dun Dun Dun). Carry on.
Chris Pokorny - March 29, 2010
Thank you, Chris.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 30, 2010
Haha, I was starting tho think that whole thread was just a figment of my imagination…
SpecialBrownie - March 30, 2010
me too
Brownie's Year - March 30, 2010
You know, I was sure your sig was going to end up being “I spread Gonorrhea like no one’s business.”
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 30, 2010
Funny as hell, but a little nasty. No one wants to see that everyday.
Brownie's Year - March 30, 2010
Actually, I’m just gunna delete what I have now and wait till something better comes up.
Brownie's Year - March 30, 2010
Before you vote – check out the write up about SAm Bradford in PD. I will repeat – I hate Oklahoma with a passion – but Sam Bradford is the truth. His accurAcy and athleticism just scary.
realmccoy - March 29, 2010 via mobile
Did you just suggest we read a PD article?
StuckInPa - March 30, 2010
you can’t make me!
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
Good point
realmccoy - March 30, 2010
Beats the hell outta the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette or Tribune Review.
North Coast Flea - March 30, 2010
Quarterbacks
Besides Bradford, I dont see a quarterback worth taking in this draft. I would be more in favor of drafting one of the Offensive Tackles. I also am not so sure how deep this draft is. I like McClain but I dont think the Browns will draft him. He is a smart player. Berry would be a good pick. Haden if Berry is not there.
champion64 - March 30, 2010
how can any one vote to take a defensive tackle or a safety over a consensus #1 QB?
rockybrown - March 30, 2010
20/20 hindsight being what it is, I wish we had taken Champ Bailey instead of the consensus #1 QB back in 1999.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
the question is, is there a champ bailey in this draft? to look at the current draft, it doesn’t help to look in hindsight at others. you have to go by THAT year.
bross09 - March 30, 2010
Haden.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
I cannot believe you just compared champ bailey to haden. Haden is NOWHERE NEAR the talent champ bailey is. champ bailey was one of the best players at his position in college football in decades. he was the same in the pros. champ bailey was smarter, better, and more polished coming out. he had skills haden could only dream to have. Looking back, if Bailey was being looked at as a prospect in this years draft, not only would he be by FAR the best CB (and DB) but he would pretty much be a lock in the top 3. the only thing stopping him from being #1 was QB need in St. Louis, and if Detroit would take Suh. However, detroit does need CB help so I would say with Bailey’s skills he would go #2 overall…
bross09 - March 30, 2010
I don’t think he’s implying that Haden is at that level now, just that he could be in a few years.
emily522 - March 30, 2010
Exactly.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
I don’t see it, thinking Haden is too slow at this point.
Roger Dorn - March 31, 2010
I don’t pay much attention to measurables. The guy plays fast and smart and physical.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
yes (and this is to you below too golan) but Haden was nowhere near the level that Bailey was SKILLWISE and polished-wise coming out. I think haden can be a #1 CB but he doesn’t have anywhere close to the skills that champ bailey did. bailey is great at reading a QBs eyes and shutting down a receiver in many ways that aren’t completely reliant of physical skills, however his physical skills are miles ahead of where haden’s were. there isn’t a comparison at all. it is like jaws trying to compare gerald McCoy to Warren Sapp. 2 completely different styles of players…on 2 completely different levels.
Golan, I think haden could have a very good career and develop into a #1 CB, but look at who you are comparing him too…a future HOFer…
That is like comparing derrick morgan to Michael Strahan.
bross09 - March 30, 2010
And I’m telling you that he will be every bit the player Bailey is. Watch and see.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
so I am supposed to just go on your word and he must be as good as Bailey? I just don’t know what evidence there is to support it…Am I supposed to believe…Is he a fairy like tinkerbell and if I believe, he CAN succeed? please tell me how he will be like bailey?
bross09 - March 30, 2010
?
emily522 - March 30, 2010
I am merely commenting on how golan says that this guy is champ bailey and he gives no evidence on why this guy will be the next champ bailey. he just says I need to watch…so do I need to believe too? (that was the joke)
bross09 - March 31, 2010
I think Tinkerbell is one of the Disney princesses now.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
hahaha.
oh by the way, you still haven’t given any evidence or reason why joe haden will be the next champ bailey…I would love to here it.
bross09 - March 31, 2010
There is no evidence. Haden is just hyped.
Brownie's Year - March 31, 2010
my thoughts. I want to hear however how he is like champ bailey.
bross09 - March 31, 2010
I never said that he’s the next Champ Bailey. I said that he’ll be just as good. His game will be different than Bailey’s. He’ll be more physical at the LOS, he’s already a better tackler than Bailey and already has better field vision. He’ll see a few more balls thrown in his direction than Bailey, because he’s not a lockdown corner like Bailey, but at the same time, he’ll force a lot of fumbles, get more INTs and get to the QB more than any other CB in recent memory.
In short, there’s more than one way to play the position, and I think he’ll develop into the best all around CB in the league.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
what makes you so high on Haden?
The Licensed Pessimist - March 31, 2010
Gut feeling.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
so we should just draft him on your gut feeling? call up holmgren, I think we have a lock with that pick!
bross09 - March 31, 2010
My gut is right more often than not.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
haha oh god here we go
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
even if it is, you still admit it is wrong. there is a good chance here your gut is wrong.
And I don’t know how much value I put on an opinion on a player based on someones gut feeling.
bross09 - March 31, 2010
You should put more value in golan’s gut. Learn to live a little.
Western Reserve - March 31, 2010
okay…so I should live a little and believe the next champ bailey is in this draft?
bross09 - March 31, 2010
You should learn that Golan is 99% right more than you ever are.
Golan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bross.
No offense. Just scientifically proven.
SpecialBrownie - March 31, 2010
I recommend this post.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
No. You should just live a little.
And challenge golan’s gut to a game of chess. En garde!
Just my two cents.
Western Reserve - March 31, 2010
My gut beat Deep Blue.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
True but that wasn’t a really fair game of H-O-R-S-E now was it?
danvail - March 31, 2010
Hey-oh!
Good one.
Western Reserve - March 31, 2010
I know how much value I put on your opinion on a player. Zero.
Even if we had game tape on every player, and enough free time to study it, and access to the players’ pro days and interviews and background checks and police records, we’d still be left making, at best, an educated guess as to who will be and who won’t be a great player. And short of having all of the above information, what it comes down to is either a gut feeling or parroting what you’ve read elsewhere and pretending that you’ve actually done the work.
I go with the gut. It saves me time, and I’m usually just as likely to be correct as anyone who pretends to study up on the draft.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
This dovetails nicely with my sneaking suspicion that all draft talk is really just the sports fan equivalent of talking about the weather on a slow news day.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 1, 2010
Yes. Ultimately we have a bunch of amateurs trying to second guess professionals who get paid to spend their entire day figuring these things out.
Roger Dorn - April 1, 2010
Very well put, RDC.
golanbatrac - April 1, 2010
Thanks. Don’t get me wrong, I can see why people find draft talk entertaining – and it’s clear that it’s a hugely popular topic here – but to get too serious about it just seems silly.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 2, 2010
butch?
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
No, I’m not a lesbian.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
yeah…you look more like a bearded old man.
bross09 - March 31, 2010
I didn’t know Butch Davis was a lesbian.
North Coast Flea - March 31, 2010
Honestly… throw a wig on him and throw him into YWCA and I’m not sure I’d be able to pick him out.
danvail - March 31, 2010
Hmm, good point, just don’t yell out “Hey Butch!”.
North Coast Flea - April 1, 2010
My neice just informed me that Tinkerbell is, in fact, still a fairy.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
I could’ve told you that haha.
emily522 - March 31, 2010
Oh, like Bross.
instantrimshot.com
SpecialBrownie - March 31, 2010
zing!
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
rec
TheRealSlimShady - March 31, 2010
yeah…you know it!
bross09 - March 31, 2010
I highly doubt this. Time will tell.
rufio - March 31, 2010
I’m sold on the guy. We’ll have to revisit this topic in a few years.
golanbatrac - March 31, 2010
I’m marking it on my calendar for 2013
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
Champ bailey comes around once in a generation. I don’t believe there are ANY players (especially in the defensive backfield) who run a 4.28 40, have a 45 inch vertical leap, 3.8 second 20 yd SS, AND won the Bronko Nagurski award as the nations best defensive player…
bross09 - March 30, 2010
Perhaps they don’t think he is the number one QB.
gahnki - March 30, 2010
He almost certainly is the number one QB in this draft. But if you consider this to be a weak QB crop, what does that really mean? Nothing.
When investing in a first round QB, the comparison isn’t to other QB’s in the draft. It is to the QB’s on the team now, available in trades, in FA, and probably, more importantly for the Browns, in the next couple drafts. You only draft a QB in the first round once in a great while (once a decade, ideally).
Ryan Kelsey - March 30, 2010
Not arguing this, but there are plenty of people who like Jimmy Clausen the most. They would not draft Bradford first.
gahnki - March 31, 2010
these people all have posters of him in their bedrooms
notthatnoise - March 31, 2010
Is it a crime to have a different opinion?
TheRealSlimShady - March 31, 2010
Depends on the opinion. That one is close.
danvail - March 31, 2010
No. It should be a crime to write articles that are as bad as Walterfootball’s.
rufio - April 1, 2010
I think someone needs to send an email to Walter just ripping him.
emily522 - April 1, 2010
We could just write an open letter
rufio - April 1, 2010
Bradford
Suh
McCoy
Berry
Graham
Kimble_79 - March 30, 2010
Bradford, Berry, Okung, Bulaga, Haden
rockybrown - March 31, 2010
Am I confused or are the Eagles really only asking for a top 40 pick for McNabb? Would our 2nd be too much to give up for him?
Depending on who we get in the first and/or other moves we might make (trading down for extra picks,trading Rogers/DQ) would a 2nd be worth it if we were able to acquire another pick in the 2nd or 3rd?
Villeslgr - March 31, 2010
I would pull that trigger. We’d be a good team.
danvail - March 31, 2010
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