The annual SB Nation Writers Mock Draft is going on over at Mocking the Draft, and I have to say that I am pleased with who was available when the Cleveland Browns were on the clock. These were the picks that were made prior to the Browns being on the clock...
(In parenthesis is the average voting rank given on Mocking the Draft -- 1 = F; 2 = D; 3 = C; 4 = B; 5 = A)
After seeing Mays selected, you can imagine how quickly I rushed to the phone (figuratively speaking) to get my pick in...
With the seventh overall pick in the 2010 SB Nation NFL Mock Draft, the Cleveland Browns have selected Eric Berry, safety, Tennessee.
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 No. 5 |
CLEVELAND |
Why the selection?
When looking at all of the units on the team's roster, the secondary is the one that needed to be addressed the most. It represents one of the few positions that Mike Holmgren has not pursued through free agency, and Rob Ryan will almost certainly be looking to fill two starting spots - one at cornerback and one at safety. As the best-rated safety on the board, Eric Berry has been a clear favorite amongst Browns fans, and would be considered a welcome addition to fill the void left by former starter Brodney Pool, who wasn't re-signed by the team given his history of concussions.
Some question whether the Browns will take a quarterback, but I grabbed who Mocking Dan bills as the second best defensive player in the draft, only behind Suh.
You may discuss the pick here, or at Mocking the Draft. Either way, be sure to visit Mocking the Draft to read my full reasoning in choosing Berry; you can vote to grade the pick their as well. As of this post, my pick of Berry was rated a 4.74 (the highest satisfaction rate up to this point). Several other picks are already in after mine, so check them out at Mocking the Draft as well.
0 recs | 319 comments
Please, please, please, please let this happen.
Bernie19Kosar - March 27, 2010
please let seattle take mays.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Unless you were, for some incomprehensible reason, enamored with Clausen, this pick is the obvious choice. I would be ecstatic if this went down.
danvail - March 27, 2010
Agree with you 100%
In this dream scenario – the only other option would be Claussen. Personally, I havE Bradford so much higher than Claussen – but Kiper has him very high and ahead of Sam.
realmccoy - March 27, 2010 via mobile
The blogger from Seattle had a suprisingly logical explanation for taking May at 5. Draft should be interesting.
navycavsfan - March 27, 2010
yeah. college coaches who get the power over the draft that carroll has, often overdraft players from their team or players they know.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
I hope for Seattle that Pete Carroll does not turn into the second coming of Butch Davis.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 27, 2010
You a Seahaks fan? He can Butch things up all he wants, imo.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
…or the second coming of Pete Carroll.
Chief WaDrew - March 27, 2010
Good point. Forgot about his tenure in New England.
TheDriveStillHurts - March 27, 2010
I gave you an A.
emily522 - March 27, 2010
not only did our pick have the highest satisfaction rate, but if you translate the letter grades to percentage grades (95, 85, etc…) we clearly have the highest grade a 93…granted, the highest you could get the way i was calculating it was a 9 so that was good.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
WHAAAAA?
Those guys on the Seahawks site are Pac-10 homers. Nuf said.
But if Carroll takes his guy at that spot. Things could get interesting.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
they aren’t PAC-10 Homers. go over to MTD and see what the guy said. He is not picking how they WANT the seahawks to pick, more what they THINK the seahawks will pick.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Then I’m pretty sure it’s a mixture of what I said.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
yes. maybe. I am surprised too but i dunno if it is them being PAC 10 homers.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Being a Pac-10 homer myself, I have a feeling of what’s going on.
If we got Mays at 7, I would say "hell yeah" and not complain. I like Mays a lot. He may be better than Berry in the NFL.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
I don’t think mays will be better in the NFL. He has the POTENTIAL, but he has been terrible in coverage.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Well, those are our opinions.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
these really aren’t opinions. an opinion is something that is subjective and can’t be really proven. look at game tape of Mays last year, ANY game tape, and it will show you his instincts in coverage…
bross09 - March 27, 2010
You can see in to the future? STFU bross.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
this is approaching glossary status.
Dawg Nuts - March 27, 2010
I tried being nice, but I’m done with that kid.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
god…you just don’t like being wrong.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
/irony>
rufio - March 28, 2010
recced
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
I don’t see how you got me seeing into the future.
I am seeing into the past. the past is his game tape. even though he has ridiculous speed he got burned…
bross09 - March 27, 2010
My thoughts on Mays are my opinions. You’re telling me that he’ll suck in the pros because you watched a few plays where he got burned. .
STFU bross.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
geez…
fine, you got your opinions on mays, which I don’t know how you came to them
I have my opinions on mays, based significant tape I have watched on him.
I was actually rooting for the browns to draft mays back in october. I knew the browns were gonna be bad and I though if he could show good coverage skills, he could be the next Sean Taylor. However, I saw him get burned too many times…
STFU BY…no need to start attacking me just because we disagree on one player…
If you love this guy so much, then do you think the browns should draft him?
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Should we draft Mays? In the first.. Hell no. He’s not worth it. But I wouldn’t be upset. I think he’ll have a good pro career. You can’t sit there and say he’s not worth any pick. He’s by far in the top 5 DBs of the draft.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Yes. He probably is one of the top 5 DBs in the draft
(I personally rank them Berry, Haden, Thomas, Wilson, Mays…so yeah)
I do think that Mays could very well have a pro Career. However, I am not certain of the type of role Mays would play to a team. He still needs work to be a coverage safety. He could be a roy williams type and almost be a 4th LB in the box. Some teams may actually switch him to LB where he is decent for the position in coverage and has great speed.
Honestly, I think this is where he would be the best. If he can add 10-20 pounds and still have 4.4 speed (at least under 4.5) he could become a ridiculous Linebacker in a 4-3. He is a solid tackler though still could use a little work in that area. the thing that brings his stock down is his coverage skills. As a LB, he would not have to cover receivers as much but would be covering RBs and TEs. while you still need to know how to cover, his deficiencies could be hidden better. A team that is willing to be patient and make the switch I think could land themselves a pro bowl linebacker.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
No, he isn’t.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
I would put him in the top 5 personally, but I wouldn’t say he is by far in there. I can definitely make a case for guys i consider 6, 7, or 8.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
My defensive back top ten:
1. Eric Berry
2. Earl Thomas
3. Joe Haden
4. Kyle Wilson
5. Nate Allen
6. Kareem Jackson
7. Patrick Robinson
8. Taylor Mays
9. Devin McCourty
10. Major Wright
gahnki - March 27, 2010
In all honesty, I think Willson is the best back. He would be a second round steal.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Agreed on the second round steal part. Not sure if he’s best, though.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
granted
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
I pretty much agree with your list. However, i would probably put Taylor mays as a prospect at #5 and move everyone else down.
As a pure prospect I rank him 5, but if we are talking about as a true D-Back, I do agree with your ranking. I would honestly (if I ran a 4-3) get him in the weight room and bulk up some. If he can add some bulk I would move him to SLB.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
I love Kareem Jackson. The more I watch him, the more I like.
Bernie19Kosar - March 27, 2010
I have Allen and Jackson flipped.
rufio - March 28, 2010
Do you understand how this comment is in direct conflict with “He’s by far in the top 5 DBs of the draft.”?
rufio - March 28, 2010
yes. I didn’t think he was top 5 by far…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
I’ve seen him play more than you have.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
A baseless assumption. I could be Pete Carroll for all you know.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
As far as I know, the only USC game you watched this year was when they whooped on OSU.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Yea, that fourth quarter scraper was a real blowout.
Anyway, I’ve seen Mays play plenty of times in his career. He’s Roy Williams, part II. Barring PC drafting him out of loyalty, he will not be in the top five defensive backs selected. I’m sig bet confident on this one.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
I’d add a crazy Al clause to that, just in case the Raiders decide to blow another draft.
golanbatrac - March 27, 2010
you can’t rule out Al ever.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
That would be a terrible way to lose a bet.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
I believe he will get drafted top 5 just by his physical skills. He will go IMO no higher than 5th though.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Thanks bross. That’s what I meant by top 5.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
USC handled them. Don’t play it off.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Uhh, what?
gahnki - March 27, 2010
You cannot possibly be serious.
Buckeye Brad - March 27, 2010
Just messin’ with the Buckeye boys. hehe
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
This is hilarious. I think this should be gahnki’s signature.
Bernie19Kosar - March 27, 2010
uh, he’s got you on this one. Mays is poor in coverage.
notthatnoise - March 27, 2010
berry would be nice…but Cleveland needs to jump on mcnabb and i bet they could get him with just swaping first rounders with the eagles and possibly a 3rd rounder. and they draft the best corner available @ that pick. I know a lot of ppl are down on mcnabb but with the browns ability to run the ball he would be perfect for them. he’s still got a cannon and throws maybe the best deep ball in the league.
Brocolis - March 27, 2010
yeah. lets give up significant leverage in this draft, one of the deepest in a long time, just so we can get another veteran QB? that is not how you rebuild a team.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
I wouldn’t even consider the trade unless it was while we were on the clock, and I imagine McNabb would be dealt by then. If he’s still with Philly and no one attractive is available at No. 7 anymore, perhaps I’d at least keep an ear open.
Chris Pokorny - March 27, 2010
I personally wouldn’t. that is just me. I don’t want to pick up picks in this draft right now, especially for a veteran who might only have two good years left.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
If you look at it this way:
Assume Berry, Suh and Bradford are gone.
Would you do Brandon Graham and Donovan McNabb for Joe Haden?
I do 1000 times over.
Bernie19Kosar - March 27, 2010
I don’t want McNabb. We just paid Delhomme $7million. If we trade down we’d better get a second round pick
jaws. - March 28, 2010
Easily, but do you think they’d give us that trade? I think they’d want our 2nd rounder too.
rufio - March 28, 2010
I was commenting on the trade offer above.
As for if they would do it or not, the trade market seems to have dried up on the Eagles as they really overplayed their hand. If there is a player that the Eagles really liked in the top 7 (Derek Morgan maybe?) then I think they could possibly do it. Something is better than nothing kinda thing.
Bernie19Kosar - March 28, 2010
I missed that proposed trade. Still no way I actually think it happens. I don’t think that even with the market seemingly dry they would do it. I’d do it though.
rufio - March 28, 2010
It’s very unlikely we get McNabb. His price is too high for me. I’d rather spend that pick on someone who can contribute for 10 years.
He’ll probably go to the Raiders (or Minnesota if Favre retires). He could easily add 4-5 wins for Oakland and stir up the AFC West.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Favre will never retire. Didn’t you watch the SB commercial? He’ll be MVP in 2015.
BrownDawg1409 - March 28, 2010
Ah shit. Rules are gunna change for QBs with walkers. No contact what so ever.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
Pass on that
badrat - March 27, 2010
I just don’t think McNabb is worth it because of the picks involved vs. his years left as a good-great QB in the league. If he was younger, I’d probably do this if Berry was off the board.
rufio - March 27, 2010
not bad thought - but
That ship sailed when we gave Delhomme 7 million reasons to come to Cleveland. Holmgren decided that we could not be competitive in the time McNab has left as elite QB. He wants Delhomme (and I have no idea why) and a young one.
realmccoy - March 27, 2010 via mobile
Absolutely.
FYI, we typically don’t use the subject button, preferring the cleaner look of the unbolded body text.
danvail - March 27, 2010
ty – usually post mobile n never noticed
realmccoy - March 27, 2010
Why would we bother going for McNabb when his contract would be up after a year, and he wouldn’t re-sign with us. We would lose too much and in return get a talented quarterback with not enough talent surrounding him. Stupid move.
AG7 - March 27, 2010
franchise tag.
rufio - March 28, 2010
he’s not just veteran qb he is an all pro with plenty left to prove and i’m saying if berry is not there at 7 then swap the picks because no one else is worth the money that high to me. Mcnabb actually demands respect for the defense and delhomme can be the back up plan if something were to happen.
Brocolis - March 27, 2010
Hasnt Holmgren already said “That ship has sailed” in reference to trading for McNabb? If I find the article again I will post the link.
jharbdo - March 27, 2010
smokescreen.
golanbatrac - March 27, 2010
I dunno how much he can prove on a bad team. he may only have 2 good seasons left. with this team, I don’t think he will have the opportunity to “prove himself” like you are saying. there just won’t be a great supporting cast around him.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
I think the Seattle people misunderstood the point of a Mock Draft.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
From what I have seen and heard from the Seahawk people, they were trying to predict who pete carroll would take.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
You aren’t predicting what your team will take because that is dependent on the picks ahead of you. And since, presumably, the SBN sites are not run by front office executives, the picks ahead of you are likely not based on their actual big board.
If you are running a Mock Draft from the point of view of your SBN site, you should be picking based upon the viewpoints of the site. Just a hunch, but I doubt that the Seattle fans want Taylor Mays at 6.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
I tried to use our Big Board from last year as a gauge during last year’s SBN mock draft.
Chris Pokorny - March 27, 2010
You did awesome this year!
Bernie19Kosar - March 27, 2010
I doubt the seattle fans want Mays too. However, if you look at the explanation made, it is very plausible. He even says he wouldn’t take mays however, he thinks in that situation Carroll would. Yes, he isn’t the front office. However, i would say the people at SBN sites usually have a good idea of what the team MIGHT pick, especially better then people like us at a different site and don’t follow said team.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Isn’t that the point of a mock?
bross09 - March 27, 2010
Even without Mays
They could have selected Claussen. Hasselback bout done.
realmccoy - March 27, 2010 via mobile
they just invested 8 million over the next 2 years into a Quarterback. this guy has at least been on an NFL roster before and although he has minimal game experience, he has been in the league and learned what it takes for 3 years.
Now he doesn’t have the talent of a philip rivers but look at what rivers was able to do after sitting. Look at Schaub. Whitehurst was drafted I believe in the same round (but not same year) in the draft. Hasselbeck is about done, but He might have a year or so left being a good backup who can start in a pinch.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
8mil over 2 years is cheap for a QB. Disregarding Whitehurst, when GB was in a similar situation, they were able to let Aaron Rogers sit on the bench for several years and that worked out pretty well.
rufio - March 28, 2010
Delhomme is essentially 8 mil over 2 years we just frontloaded the entire contract in year 1.
Roger Dorn - March 28, 2010
what’s the point?
dawggonehawaiian - March 27, 2010
You get a 5 from me, Chris.
rufio - March 27, 2010
If you check out Chris Steuber’s mock draft over at the OBR, he has us getting Eric Berry at 7 and Sergio Kindle in the 2nd round. This would be amazing.
Roger Dorn - March 27, 2010
more surprised
If Kindle is available in 2nd than Berry in first. I really think that with up to 3 teams needing QBs – both Claussen and Bradford will go in top 6,
realmccoy - March 27, 2010 via mobile
I am not completely sold on Kindle though. He reminds me a lot of Kamerion Wimbley. they both have elite physical skills but but rely too much on speed rushing. Neither are good at the POA. In the 2nd, Kindle could be a decent get in the 2nd, but I like Jerry Hughes just about as much.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
He is much stronger than Kam. I think Orakpo’s success with the Redskins – and Kindle flashing that same ability will keep him in the first.
realmccoy - March 27, 2010
Yes. I think kindle will go in the first.
I dunno if he is that much stronger than Kam. Kam had some strength. However, Kindle does not use his strength as well as other players and neither does Kam.
bross09 - March 27, 2010
I actually think he is weaker at the POA. That’s really all Kindle’s missing though, just strength to hold up against the run. Good moves, good size, good first step, good pass rushing.
rufio - March 28, 2010
Watch the NC game again.
rufio - March 28, 2010
he did have a great game there. I think he could be a very good player, I just am not sure if he would be great.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Wow
Taylor Mays sixth? Nice pick on Berry, though.
Ted Bartlett - March 27, 2010
Well done sir, I don’t see any situation where Berry falls past our pick.
jaws. - March 27, 2010
maybe if Bradford or Suh is still on the board.
notthatnoise - March 27, 2010
If they are, somebody must have picked Berry probably. Though I guess anything could happen.
jaws. - March 27, 2010
yeah, just trying to think of a scenario where its possible. if Suh or Bradford are still available at our pick someone else screwed up.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
Someone could have went with an additional OT. I don’t see that as being completely crazy. Maybe another OT goes high, pushing Berry down, and we like a QB.
rufio - March 28, 2010
If Berry not there – I fully expect the Browns to trade down. Then move from the 2nd round to back of 1st to get Tebow. I look for Browns to end up with 2 Florida kids. Haden in the mid first and Tebow in late first.
realmccoy - March 27, 2010
if they pick tim tebow in the first round i will egg mike holmgren’s house.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
I’ll buy the eggs and help you. I get a bad feel about Tebow. If you gat a little arrogant thinking – feeling you can change up some mechanics no problem – he does have some nice intangibles and athleticism.
realmccoy - March 28, 2010 via mobile
He’ll be there at #38 and we will take him.
jaws. - March 28, 2010
Don’t forget to cover his car in brake fluid.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
In other news, real life Joey Porter has been arrested for being football Joey Porter.
gahnki - March 27, 2010
A Steeler for life, apparently.
golanbatrac - March 27, 2010
From what I have read, he is lucky he didn’t get shot.
Bernie19Kosar - March 27, 2010
DUIs are a bitch.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Take Tebow round 2 in this mock. Seriously.
jaws. - March 27, 2010
Fixed.
emily522 - March 27, 2010
As much as I’m against it, I wouldn’t put it passed Holmgren.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
I’d be pissed. I’d rather have Colt McCoy.
emily522 - March 27, 2010
lol My gut feeling is that we take McCoy in the second.
Brownie's Year - March 27, 2010
Nah, we’ll trade back into the bottom of the second to grab Tebow. Havn’t you heard? He has a new thowing motion! He’ll continue to get better! OMG, he’s the second coming of Christ!
BrownDawg1409 - March 28, 2010
Stop foolin’. That’s not funny. haha
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
Ha!
emily522 - March 28, 2010
He is a great kid and the winningnest QB in NCAA history. I don’t worry about accuracy and leadership – but I do have a few concerns on arm strength. I have seen every one of his snaps – and am still concerned about it.
realmccoy - March 28, 2010 via mobile
Oh…hes is a WINNER…and He is a good guy…a slam dunk right there…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
slow your roll
Villeslgr - March 28, 2010
??
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Quick trigger, i don’t think that was the point he was trying to make.
Villeslgr - March 28, 2010
OH…yeah. I understand the point. However, I do make that comment when someone uses that as an example. he used it as an example for why McCoy was good, ergo, I made the “he’s a WINNNER” comment.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
I think arm strength gets overrated a little. Its important to be sure, but overrated.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
More importantly, does he need to wind up that windmill delivery to have the ball come out as fast as it does/should? The accuracy is the more questionable of the two characteristics for him.
rufio - March 28, 2010
I’m not sure who you’re referring to. I think we were talking about McCoy, and my understanding is his accuracy is great.
With the wind up thing, I think you’re referring to Tebow. and I agree its a bit of a question mark whether his arm strength is due to that wind up or not.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
I like McCoy, but I’d rather have Tebow. They both have good intangibles and great college production. McCoy is a little bit small and has arm strength questions while Tebow is big and has a strong arm.
jaws. - March 28, 2010
but colt McCoy is one of the most accurate QBs in NCAA history, won’t have to be taught how to throw a football, and while he played in a spread, it demanded much more passing ability than was ever asked of Tebow.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
rec
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
09 the gators had an offensive lineman coach as a O coordinator (sp) calling plays. Pissed me off all season. the only game they let Tebow wing-it was against Cincy in the sugar bowl. they WAY under-utilized Tebows arm skills. also, think of the db’s tebow was throwing against at practice, that would take a little confidence away from any qb.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
statistically, Tebow is the best passer in SEC history. His completion percentage is nearly as good as McCoys and he throws probably the best deep ball in the entire draft. Of the last 5 #1 overall picks that were SEC quarterbacks, not only did Tebow have easily the best YPA, but also the best touchdowns/attempts and lowest INT/attempts. He didn’t just put up gaudy numbers, but fantastically efficient ones. Tebow can chuck it. Oh and by the way in his spare time he set the SEC record for rushing touchdowns.
The windmill windup concern is totally overblown. Go back and watch this replay Brett Favre has a long windup and nobody thinks it makes him a shitty quarterback.
jaws. - March 28, 2010
100%
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Replace Tebow with Alex Smith and SEC with Mountain West and it would still be correct…except for the rushing touchdowns…at least alex smith had better footwork and a better throwing motion.
Do you see the common variable?
bross09 - March 28, 2010
replace the sec for who? are you sure about that? How many national championships has the…..anyone brought home lately? thats right. think before you post
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
yep. we all know that wins are a measure of how good a QB is…that is why Leinart is an all pro…
The fact of the matter is, Tebow was on some great teams. If you put alex smith on those teams, they might have actually done better…
What has alex smith done coming out of the same offense?
bross09 - March 28, 2010
smith finally is healthy and had a couple of good games at the end of the season
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
I’m sure you’ve figured out I’m not a huge fan of you, but seriously, this guy is a moron. Stop giving him any sort of reason to reply to you.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
I should rephrase this. It’s not that I don’t like you per se. It’s more I don’t like you taking conversations way too far and always having to have the last word.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
yep…I did that too much last week…Sometimes I don’t but then other weeks I do…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
bross, I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say here.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
Look at the common denominator between Tebow and Alex Smith…Urban Meyer and his offense…except tebow had much better pieces around him. Smiths stats when he played (discounting rushing but he was still mobile) were very similar to tebows. Smith has struggled most of his career coming out of Urban Meyer’s offense…After smith, I am not sure how much we can trust tebow’s stats.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Oh right, I forgot Smith was an Urban Meyer project. I don’t like Tebow anyway, but thanks for the explanation.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
yeah. I don’t hate tebow. i just realize you have to take his stats with a grain of salt. Meyer’s offense definitely benefits QBs stats…its no coincidence chris leak finally reached his potential in his one year in Meyer’s offense…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
You can say the same for almost any spread offense. Unfortunately, this means the same for Colt McCoy, who I’m a huge fan of. I just don’t think you can look past his accuracy. No matter the offensive system, no QB has come out of college with that sort of accuracy.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
McCoys? Yeah. you do have to consider the offense, but he is still a very accurate QB. I am not sure about the touch on Tebow’s passes however…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
right. You can’t really hold up his yardage and touchdown numbers as outstanding because the offense he was in threw so much. and while that’s true for the accuracy as well to some degree, 76% is 76%
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
first of all, his completion percentages and YPA are skewed because of the type of offense. they ran the ball most of the time at Florida so when they were passing they were looking to go down field and they were catching the defense off guard. At texas, they threw a lot of short and intermediate routes and the defense was always looking for the pass because of the offense they run. Colt McCoy managed to put up a completion percentage over 70% the last two years, with his junior year being 76%. Tim Tebow’s best year is 67%, almost ten percent lower than McCoy’s best year.
secondly, I honestly don’t know the answers to these questions but…
1. Who were the last five quarterbacks from the SEC to go number 1 overall?
2. What type of offense did they play in college?
3. What type of receivers did they have?
I’ve already pointed out in other threads why Tebow will not be nearly the same type of rusher he was in college. He won’t be fast enough to run around linebackers or strong enough to run through them like he did in college.
Pointing out one replay hardly means anything about Brett Favre. He’s throwing the ball a long distance, hence a bigger wind up. He’s also lost some arm strength over the years. he also doesn’t throw a slant route with a wind up like that. Tebow does.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
your skewed
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
This is pathetic really.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
this is so true…this is the point I tried to make with Tebow. Urban Meyer’s offense makes QBs look much better. look at Josh Harris. He had a couple good years at BGSU under meyer and then went on to the pros. he did nothing there. If it wasn’t for Meyer, I doubt he would even play in the CFL (or AFL)
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Favre winds up occasionally. He also throws a million different ways occasionally. He also knows when do wind up/throw underhand and when not to.
Tebow doesn’t have anywhere close to the kind of moxie Favre has in terms of different throws, playfakes, etc. In fact, no one in the history of the world has. And not only has it been one of Favre’s biggest strengths, it’s been one of his biggest weaknesses too.
rufio - March 28, 2010
right, favre is all over the place, its part of why people liked him so much. Tebow winds up all the time.
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
You leave out the part that Brett Favre has one of the strongest arms in NFL history.
Tebow doesn’t. Better the arm, the longer the wind-up can be.
Bernie19Kosar - March 28, 2010
!?!??
This post is full of fallacy.
rufio - March 28, 2010
I didn’t even want to touch that one.
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
Tim Tebow’s career was a smokescreen.
Villeslgr - March 28, 2010
it was hiding his real intent of becoming a firefighter. no one will see it coming!
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
I don’t know where this idea that Tebow has awesome arm strength comes from but it’s straight up false. The guy has a windup reminiscent of a pitcher from a 1940’s bugs bunny cartoon. That’s not NFL arm strength.
danvail - March 28, 2010
tebow out-bechpresses linemen; the coaches had to make him quit challenging them. you don’t have a clue as to his strenght
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Weird that Peyton Manning can throw a football farther than Casey Hampton, no?
danvail - March 28, 2010
so what.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
bench presses sure do matter with how far and hard you can throw a QB. look at Quinn…he is ripped…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
quinn is a poser gym-rat megamilk drinking feg. he isn’t enough of a man to push it through the goal-line. he is a prettyboy pretender.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
so because quinn is a poser, but still is strong, he is the exception?
The point being made is that bench pressing has little effect on arm strength.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
how dow you know he is strong?
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Quinn did more reps on the bench press at the combine then all but a few offensive lineman.
Roger Dorn - March 28, 2010
quinn did 24. the line were doing 40
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Derek Anderson was a skinny, lanky, big pile of lack of muscle. He had a rocket laser arm.
Arm strength is not strongly correlated with bench press numbers.
rufio - March 28, 2010
Quinn
Quinn
Villeslgr - March 28, 2010
I am really weak lifting weights but can throw a baseball very hard. Arm strength can be enhanced by weight lifting, but it is only a minor factor.
Roger Dorn - March 28, 2010
what % of your life have you been a pitcher? Why was Roger Clemens taking steroids?
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Clemens was taking steroids to help his recovery time in between starts and maintain his health and strength through old age which is rare for a pitcher. He could throw 99mph long before he started taking steroids.
Roger Dorn - March 28, 2010
how do you know how long he was taking steroids? was you his doctor?
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
I am going by what was revealed in the MLB and criminal investigations.
Roger Dorn - March 28, 2010
steroids do much more than make you stronger. honestly it doesn’t help a pitcher much. it can maybe help him gain a little zip. it is much more useful to give hitters power. However, another thing steroids are good at doing is preventing injuries and minimizing recovery time. this is why guys like clemens and bonds, when their bodies should have been breaking down, were perfectly healthy and never nicked up.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
that is the biggest bunch of crap i have heard. Bonds? preventing injury? get real.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
yeah. one of the main USES of anabolic steroids IS preventing and speeding up injury recovery. Notice how after the whole thing about steroids came out, bonds had a slew on injuries?
bross09 - March 28, 2010
how many ex-athletes go around high schools telling kids how they regret taking roids? Plenty.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
a) Does that mean that Steroids don’t help because they regret it? No…to think otherwise would be ignorant
b) how many are just sorry they got caught and put out in the open? There are definitely some like that.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
are you a fool? Steroids ruin people
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Yeah…they ruin the bodies of people using them…however, when being used, the people using them do not usually get the nasty side effects.
I don’t get your point…yes they ruin people, but does that mean they aren’t taken to help performance?
what is your point????
bross09 - March 28, 2010
steroids topic is off my original point of why the gators didn’t throw the ball last year
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
you never mentioned anything about why the gators didn’t throw…you started talking about how strong tebow was…then you mentioned steroids as if it automatically increases arm strength…it doesn’t.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
you used both quinn and russell to prove both sides of an arguement on strenght
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
That isn’t relevant to that comment, but yes I did.
Quinn put up great bench press numbers. He doesn’t have a strong arm and doesn’t have much zip on the ball. He put up more BP reps than Cutler did when drafted…Cutler has a much stronger arm…this was to point out that bench press reps has minimal effect on arm strength.
With Russell, I was pointing out that throwing 60 yards downfield from your Knees doesn’t make you a good QB.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Anabolic Steroids
Villeslgr - March 28, 2010
Steroids
Villeslgr - March 28, 2010
yes. a steroid isn’t just something taken for performance enhancement.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Look at Tim Lincecum. It’s all about technique.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
Technique, musculoskeletal leverage and the ability to apply a lot of force over a very small period of time in a particular way.
rufio - March 28, 2010
he’s a freak at 5’11’’ 170.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
Bench presses use pectoral muscles, so it appears you don’t have a clue either.
gahnki - March 28, 2010
the pec inserts to the humerous thus is the primary mover in forward motion of an arm from the sholder
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Completely different movements.
gahnki - March 28, 2010
only if you toss it underhand
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
your pecs help you push things (bench press) while its a combination of your shoulder and upper back strength that helps you throw harder.
that said, your throwing motion has a bigger impact on your ability to throw hard than how physically strong your muscles are.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
look at your arm while throwing a football near your ear. Now look at your arm in a bench press motion
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Now look at your brain on drugs.
gahnki - March 28, 2010
Looks like a fried egg to me.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
My brain doesn’t lookj like that.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
Can you be sure of that?
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
Yeah
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
Have you ever heard of an “over the top” release? You know, the desirable throwing motion?
Have you ever heard of an “over the top” bench press?
rufio - March 28, 2010
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
Awesome.
rufio - March 29, 2010
You’re my hero. I’m really trying to do an over-the-top bench press, but i think that that Hawaiian guy has that secret hidden away.
Legoman0721 - March 30, 2010 via mobile
Think you mean humerus there Dr. Anatomy.
danvail - March 28, 2010
spelling error only einstein
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
The real irony being that you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about with respect to anatomy and physiology.
danvail - March 28, 2010
like i just explained to notthat. flick a football from your ear, put your other hand on thowing side pec. now do the same doing a bench press. next i’ll have to wiki kinesiology for you.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
What is your point? Are you trying to say that because the pectorals are involved in the throwing motion, the bench press rep exercise strictly correlates to NFL arm strength? That’s stupid, and you know it.
danvail - March 28, 2010
You can’t win this argument. He’s a troll. Let it be.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
your pec has EVERYthing to do with throwing
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
David Wells’ giant bitchtits say otherwise.
golanbatrac - March 28, 2010
i laughed loudly at this.
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
whos the guy that said i"clearly have no idea" about anything anatomy/phys
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
you could scroll up, its right there.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
google action of pec muscle
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
I found this humerous
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
If you think that bench press measures passing arm strength then I have a link here for you.
It is a step by step for you.
Bernie19Kosar - March 28, 2010
Whoa, how did you do that?
emily522 - March 28, 2010
http://lmgtfy.com/
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
That’s cool.
emily522 - March 29, 2010
Impressive rules skirting.
gahnki - March 28, 2010
There is a you tube video that supposedly shows him throwing over 60 yds on his knees. I have not seen it, but have always heard he has a cannon despite very very poor mechanics
realmccoy - March 28, 2010 via mobile
mechanics can be overcome with repetition. he has the drive, focus, and ability to succeed
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
well then…lets draft Tebow…we all know that throwing 60 yards on your knees makes you an all pro QB…Isn’t that right Jamarcus?
bross09 - March 28, 2010
jamarcus thows WAY to hard
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Zoom…Joke way over your head.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
you used both quinn and russell to prove two sides of the strenght issue
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
No. I used them to disprove 2 different falsehoods.
Look at the above statement I just made to your comment. BP reps didn’t give BQ a strong arm. Throwing 60 yards form your knees didn’t make Jamarcus a good QB.
you really missed the jamarcus russell zing…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
what did I miss? you missed my first post, then read every-other post after that and lost continuity.
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
I read your first one. it claims since he can bench press a lot, he has a superstrong arm. that just isn’t true…
What you missed is the joke about jamarcus russell and the jab at him…you go on to comment about how he throws too hard (which may or may not be true)
bross09 - March 28, 2010
don’t feed the troll
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
brosstroll: read up 2 posts JO
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
I have no idea what this comment means
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
lol…I have a hard time recognizing trolls at times.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
look in a mirror
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
This was funny in an ironical sort of way.
skipkirk - March 28, 2010
i’d love to hear why you think bross is a troll?
Dawg Nuts - March 28, 2010
I might not say the smartest things but I don’t try to instigate anything…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Kosar didn’t have a strong arm- let’s say average- and he was simply awesome. But he did have a very fast release, a capacity he shared with (one of ?) the greatest QBs to have played the game, Marino.
I’ll take the hair-trigger release over javelin throwing every sunday ta very much.
LondonBrown - March 28, 2010
I would too…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
That’s Tebow out then. Would be like carrying a muzzle loader into Stalingrad. Albeit one with a walnut stock and delivering a load like a blunderbus.
LondonBrown - March 28, 2010
i like this analogy
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
what a 19th century weapon used by the british cavelry in close quarter combat
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
great analogy.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
I’ll take Kosar’s one great strength as a quarterback other than height. (his arm strength and release were pretty average)
He was a great decision maker. He could read the defense in a split second and know when and where to deliver the ball more quickly than virtually any of his peers. He used this strength to mask his terrible athleticism.
jaws. - March 28, 2010
what an 19th century weapon used by the cavelry in close quarter combat?
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
what? sword?
bross09 - March 28, 2010
give it up brosstroll
dawggonehawaiian - March 28, 2010
Yep. His arm strength is winding up like Bob Feller and throwing it as far as he can.
gahnki - March 28, 2010
okay this is the way it played out in the mock over at Revenge of the Birds!
1. St. Louis – Sam Bradford, QB
2. Detroit – Russell Okung, OT
3. Tampa Bay – Ndamukong Suh, DT
4. Washington – Bryan Bulaga, OT
5. Kansas City – Eric Berry, S
6. Seattle – Gerald McCoy, DT
so, i chose Clausen and yes i know the desperate need for secondary help but i think if it plays out the same in real life i can see this pick. thoughts?
az78true - March 27, 2010
this was my reasoning!
With the 7th pick of the Revenge of the Birds community mock draft, the Cleveland Browns select…
Jimmy Clausen/ Quarterback/ Notre Dame
GM: az78true
Strengths: 6’2’’ 217 lbs. and has a strong arm that allows him to make most of the throws necessary to be a top caliber player at the position. He has a very compact delivery motion coupled with power and accuracy to match. He possesses the ability to scan a defense and make the call of whether to audible out or proceed with confidence in his read. He is able to go through his progression quickly and identify which read is true and thus resulting in a positive play. Good pocket awareness and has mobility if the play breaks down and is forced outside the pocket. He maintains his composure in crucial game time moments giving him a good command of the flow of the game whether it’s the 1st quarter or under a minute in the game.
Weaknesses: His footwork can at times lead to him throwing the errant pass. At times his competitive nature gives way to mental mistakes when confronted with situations of adversity. Clausen has a tendency to look to the edges of the field and almost entirely disregard the underneath middle of the field as if he’s afraid to make a mistake. This limits his opportunities at times for big plays. There are moments, as with any prospect at the position, when the pocket collapses around him he will force a throw into traffic.
Why the Browns will take him: With Berry off the board, the Browns take a small leap that Clausen will benefit them more so than Haden in the long term. The offseason moves by the front office suggests they are looking for a quarterback to develop over the next two years. Given the fact Holmgren, the president of football operations, is a west coast offense man and Clausen has been tutored in the same offense it makes sense. Even with the glaring need for help in the defensive backfield the Browns take their shot at a quality prospect to develop for the long term health of the organization. If there was the opportunity to trade down I believe the Browns would do so. All in all this is a good move in the understanding there is help for the secondary in the rounds to come.
az78true - March 27, 2010
Okay, waaaaay too long to read.
BrownDawg1409 - March 28, 2010
With Berry gone – and if you are not sold on Hayden – I think you took the best option. I would have prolly gone for the cb – but the rumblings bout speed could be dropping him.
realmccoy - March 28, 2010 via mobile
It is possible. That is pretty much my nightmare scenario. Trade back at all costs, Clausen if you can’t.
The desperate need for secondary help can be shored up later, I think you went with the best value available.
rufio - March 28, 2010
what? you must not read books! this is nothing compared to a page in a novel! try! c'mon challenge yourself! read!
az78true - March 28, 2010
reply fail…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Subject line fail.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
let’s just call this one a complete failure.
Dawg Nuts - March 28, 2010
I’m on board with this. he failed twice on formatting, never mind content.
notthatnoise - March 28, 2010
Ok, that´s something. So according to you, might we say, that to trade up to number one overall to get Jimmy Clausen, we have to pass on Eric Berry at number 7?
mooncamping - March 28, 2010
You know, it’s okay to be obsessed with drafting Clausen, but why trade up to #1? Odds are he’s available at 7 and even if he isn’t he’s not going before 4.
danvail - March 28, 2010
I like your signature.
emily522 - March 28, 2010
Delhome, how ever the hell you spell it, will do good. He’s better than DA and BQ combined.
Brownie's Year - March 28, 2010
….which even if true, really isn’t saying much.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 28, 2010
I would argue that one – with Seattle and Wash both needing QBs – I would say it is prolly 50-50 that Claussen would be there. Kiper has him rated 5 overall – if that is true – he definitely would not be there. However, I know Mel is just a talking head and may be off base.
realmccoy - March 28, 2010 via mobile
It´s not an obsession. Of the blue chippers he´s the no doubt pick, his escapades can not distract from that. Berry and Suh were fluffered up with all kinds of awards so they can do some damage at the top, it´s pretty obvious. They may be good, possibly very good, but neither has the allure of the Allstars of yesteryear coming out.
The type of bartering the Browns exponents engage in forcing opinions and articles around the nation is sickening. I must admit it´s become tempting to wag the dog. If you like someone say it, if you want someone say it, if you deserve someone say it.
Clever only works when paired with Respect. So smart begets respect. And while Clever would like to say drop to 7, Smart says do what Respect wants, that is get him at slot 1.
mooncamping - March 29, 2010
We will have to trick ourselves into winning. Thus, contrary to our obsessive cumpulsive impulse to be control freaks over our own fate by getting a quarterback we can control, we will get the biggest punk to come out since Jim McMahon, to help with our therapy.
Millions of sanities yearn for Jimmy Clausen to reverse engineer the non losing process for us.
mooncamping - March 29, 2010
Moon, I think I found you a new avatar.
Bernie19Kosar - March 29, 2010
You forgot one thing: the pendulum of mediocronism, It’s not only the babel white crawfish of the river of sticks, it’s the clear path of the non-lost-winning medicrunum. You cannot abide the miscalcumations of the foreign powers of tomorrow. You must be strong enough in the brain meat to know that 7 is not 1 and that 1 can be 7 if strategy begets the process of outthinking the established procedures that force the losing nation.
danvail - March 30, 2010
awesome. rec.
Dawg Nuts - March 30, 2010
Nah, you’re trying too hard.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 31, 2010
I haven’t been thinking this way for my entire life. It’s like speaking a different language, though, so I hope to get better at it by conversing with a native speaker.
danvail - March 31, 2010
It’s good to have a dream.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 1, 2010
Besides, no points for “brain meat”? That makes me chuckle.
danvail - March 31, 2010
yea! huh huh, he said brain meat!
doggrad87 - April 1, 2010
It´s a funnyism. You´ve generated a set of factable acts of word crime, that in the end is only funny, kind of.
mooncamping - April 1, 2010
Exactly.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 1, 2010
The flack the Seahawks rep got for picking Mays was ridiculous, as if no-one could understand his reasoning. I got it first time. ExCollege coaches persistently go back to their alma-matas for staff (hell- we all do- better the devil you know) and Mays to me looks like a very good prospect.
Only downside for me with Mays is he would clash with our only starting calibre safety, Elam.
LondonBrown - March 28, 2010
A-La Butch Davis.
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Plus if he really is in the 4.3s at that size and strength – I could not fault the pick as he is a true freak. Coaches are expected to improve players skills – but they can’t coach 4.3
realmccoy - March 28, 2010 via mobile
David Fulcher anyone?
LondonBrown - March 28, 2010
He isn’t in the 4.3s, not at the combine anyway. And you can’t coach what Eric Berry has either.
I’d take Berry’s uncanny diagnostics and a 4.44 over Mays’ lack of coverage and a 4.30 (which he doesn’t run) any day.
rufio - March 28, 2010
As would any uninvolved bystander.
The point is Carroll knows Mays and (apparently) likes that type of player in his system.
It’s no more a reach than all of the Browns/ Clausen hysteria.
LondonBrown - March 28, 2010
Considering the Seahawks could reasonably get Mays in the 2nd round, it’s a massive reach. The Browns couldn’t even conceivably get Clausen in the 2nd if he went on a draft day slide as big as Quinn or Aaron Rodgers.
Carroll can know Mays all he wants, that’s still an awful pick (if it happens in the actual draft, not the mock draft pick).
rufio - March 28, 2010
And as I recall the Tampa HC- Ray Perkins?
Skipped Junior Seau and went back to his old college for Keith McCants. I can’t actually remember how McCants played but Seau hung around for a bit, didn’t he…
LondonBrown - March 28, 2010
I’m still calling Jimmy Clausen to the Seahawks by way of the ‘Gerrard Warren effect’.
gahnki - March 28, 2010
I would love this.
rufio - March 28, 2010
So was the point of this mock draft to predict who a team should take or who they will take? I can’t imagine Seattle taking Mays, no matter the explanation given on MTD.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
look at who is controlling the draft…I can see it…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
I guess. That just seems like an Al Davis pick.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
yep…it does…
It also seems like a butch davis pick…or any other college coach that got power over the draft…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
Well, we can only hope they do make such a pick.
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
I do hope…
bross09 - March 28, 2010
I’ve always treated it as a combination of three things…
-Who I think the Browns will take
-Who I think the Browns should take
-What the consensus of other people agree on
The last one is sketchy in the sense that the beauty of a mock draft is that you try to not be like everyone else (otherwise there is really no point in comparing mocks). On the same note, you don’t want to make an erratic pick just for the sake of taking a leap of faith, so it’s best to get a feel of other peoples thoughts too.
Chris Pokorny - March 28, 2010
I think it’s safe to say if we land Berry, everybody will be pleased. Except for Mooncamping that is. (That was my first Mooncamping joke. I feel all grown up now.)
StuckInPa - March 28, 2010
Moon might just want him at CB or OLB or freaky flanker.
rufio - March 28, 2010
I like the new trend of switching which side of the ball people play on.
notthatnoise - March 29, 2010
yeah, berry’s playing WR for us. count on it.
Dawg Nuts - March 29, 2010
I can’t wait to see Delhomme line up at DE.
danvail - March 30, 2010
the man’s a sack machine.
Dawg Nuts - March 30, 2010
Not only that, but he had 18 interceptions last year.
golanbatrac - March 30, 2010
Well played, sir.
danvail - March 30, 2010
this was hilarious
notthatnoise - March 30, 2010
DN needs a rec as well lest he become the guy that bids 400 only to have the next contestant bid 401 with the actual price being 478. I don’t see how there weren’t fights on that show, if someone did me like that I would be heated.
Villeslgr - March 31, 2010
thanks for the support.
Dawg Nuts - March 31, 2010
This is where Family Guy shorts come in handy.
SpecialBrownie - March 31, 2010
He’s got the hands, and I’d like to see him in Brown and Orange with the ball in his hands as much as possible…
rufio - March 31, 2010
Only one probloem
The fat man from seattle not that good at drafts-so think whou would he take that really sucks in college foorball and that is our pik
GOD'S OTHER SON - April 1, 2010
After two attempts to comprehend this, I gave up. And I like Mooncamping’s work.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - April 2, 2010
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