Dawgs By Nature

agreed.

Plus Prisco is in the group of idiots that still thinks BQ is at Notre Dame…

It’s strange how many people want to pretend that BQ’s experience here never happened. Talk about how much time he saw and what kind of time that was if you want, but ignoring his entire tenure as a Brown? Odd.

yep…

I love how walterfootball criticizes him in one sentence and then says the broncos got a franchise QB.

Ha! I saw that too.

They all said the same thing, Brady didn’t produce, but Cleveland got took in the deal. Brady is a bust.

iamtut - March 15, 2010 reply

What in the hell is Mike Lombardi talking about? He gets paid to write this crap?

Just like the idiots who write for Yahoo.

If that fails, the Browns will have to look at Colt McCoy or Dan LeFevour in the second or third rounds.

I think this is more likely then trading up, considering the cost.

I do like that Clayton has already decided that we’re failures if we don’t move up to grab Claussen though.

I used to be okay with drafting Clausen, but I don’t really want him anymore. Bad feeling about him.

Must be a Notre Dame thing…cause ya know, that worked out well in the past.

Andrew Tolliver - March 15, 2010 reply

Clayton is a failure, how in the world does he find work.

Grockcubs - March 15, 2010 reply

I can’t stand that Clayton talks about the draft as though he knows exactly what will happen. I want to punch him in the face for every time he’s done this, been wrong, and not been held accountable.

Clayton doesn’t bother me nearly as much as mel kiper.

Kiper knows his shit. McShay not so much.

John clayton must have sold his soul to the devil to get inside contacts or something. I cant believe they still put that guy on tv. I cringe every time i see his face in HD.

Mel kiper annoys the shit out of me, and he’s no better than any other analyst, and certainly not as good as NFL personnel people. I’d like to see a record of people he claimed were sure-fire, can’t miss picks. I’d also like to see how many times he acted like a douche when telling someone a future bust was a future hall of famer.

I think kiper has a better track record compared to McShay. I am pretty sure kiper has bradrord higher. plus Clausen isn’t in Mcshay’s top 30 prospects.

but they were both wrong (and I was right) on Jamarcus.

A lot of people are down on Clausen.

I agree and I am…I just don’t agree he is that bad.

I know that isn’t a great example but I find Kiper to sound more informative at times…but at times I do think McShay sounds a little more intelligent. Neither one is infallible though…

While most people like kiper, when I saw both talk about Clausen, Mcshay sounded more intelligent.

Kiper talked about how he talked to teammates and how they said they liked to work with clausen. however, mcshay was actually analyzing and breaking down film.

I don’t want clausen as a cleveland brown. He might turn out to be a good NFL quarterback, but I don’t want him to be the face of the Browns. I don’t know why. I don’t think he is a Mangini guy.

No.

He’s a jackass.

Yup, that’s what I was thinking the other day… definitely not a Mangini guy with that ego.

I don’t like him either.

I am just stating how McShay actually looked more intelligent than Kiper.

nobody hits on every prediction. Kiper is one of the best at picking who will get drafted where. He is pretty good at his job. McShay is a hack.

But Kiper’s job isn’t to say who will get drafted where. part of his job is assessing players, and he’s not any better at that then anybody else. He thought Jamarcus Russel was going to be a pro-bowler, thought he was a can’t-miss pick. Plenty of casual fans could have told you Jamarcus had a high chance of being a bust.

that aside, my main problem with kiper is that he has such a high opinion of himself. I’ve seen him call people stupid for having a different (and usually smarter) opinion than he has. I think the guy is a colossal douche.

yep. I knew russell would be a huge bust…granted, I loved BQ too and I don’t claim to be an expert, but I though russell as a bust seemed a no brainer.

But he can do this!

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then.

while watching the video of jamarcus i came across this video for good humor. Fast Forward to last 4 seconds

BornInThePound - March 16, 2010 reply

Too bad Braylon can’t do this.

I want to punch him in the face just b/c he annoys me period.

At least Kiper isn’t so sure of himself. He’s annoying, but he never snickers smugly at the thought that a prospect will still be available after the third pick like we should all know because it is common knowledge.

I disagree 100%. I think that Kiper can be so sure of himself it makes me want to punch him.

Sure of himself is not the correct wording. I don’t know, all I hear coming out of Clayton’s mouth is opinion spoken as though it were fact, and as though I would be stupid to not have known because it was so obvious that everyone knows. Just irks me.

Don’t punch Kiper, you might hurt yourself on his hair.

I can understand that. I’m not a fan of either to be honest, But I’ve seen Mel Kiper shout people down for daring to question his infallible draft knowledge.

notthatnoise - March 18, 2010 reply

Maybe they think Tebow can surprise his critics and develop into a solid pro despite his unorthodox throwing style. Or perhaps they really like McCoy or LeFevour.

Oh, please let the second sentence be true rather than the first.

More and more I’m rooting for the first one. I mean one of the most talented but raw players ever coming into the league paired up with arguably the greatest QB guru on the planet? Should make great TV.

you keep talking about all of this intrigue with drafting tebow; who gives a shit how interesting it will be if he doesn’t win? i don’t want to be part of a revolutionary project, i want to have a winning team. the most interesting tv on sundays is when the browns win. with all due respect.

Dawg Nuts - March 15, 2010 reply

Yeah I hear you. We have good coaches, no matter what they do our schemes will be good. Daring to be different might mean big success.

It won’t mean big success in the NFL, which is part of why “college offenses” are more effective in college.

In the NFL, people know what you did five minutes after you did it. You might sneak up on someone one week (Dolphins vs. Pats), but you will have less success running things that are different just because they are different.

In college, talent disparity is huge, time to prepare for any given opponent is relatively nothing. If you run something exotic, the odds are a lot greater that you can overcome the talent disparity and win because the other team simply has not seen your stuff before.

In the NFL there are only 32 teams, and there is virtually limitless prep time. Teams are a lot more ready for one another week to week. There is a lot more familiarity not only because of a lack of incentive to be different (which does exist, I agree), but also because of the very nature of the two leagues.

I could write a lot more on this.

but you will have less success running things that are different just because they are different.

over an extended period of time.

I could write a lot more on this.

I’d love to read it if you get the urge and \ or have the time and energy. I’m fascinated lately with the relative monotony of NFL systems and why this is so….

Maybe if we were a playoff team each year I’d say, “Hey why not. Let’s take a chance at him in the 4th.” But we’re not so I’ll say it again: NO TEBOW.

I just read profootballweekly’s analysis of the top ten quarterbacks in this year’s draft, and they surprisingly didn’t have LeFevour among them. Has his draft stock fallen suddenly, or was it just an omission on their part?

bbstirrd - March 15, 2010 reply

The only thing I can see that has caused his stock to drop is not throwing at the combine, which I think was a poor decision

mich_n_trum84 - March 15, 2010 reply

Absolutely poor. What do you have to lose by throwing, especially when all the top guys weren’t throwing?

well..this list is really dumb anyways…the app state guy that high???

Where is Jarrett Brown? Where is Tim Hiller? These guys are better than many guys on that list.

Go Brown…my fellow WVU alumni baby!!!

note to Peter King: Kiss isn’t in the rock hall because they were a completely unoriginal hair metal, arena rock band whose creativity ended with makeup. seriously, if your biggest contribution to rock and roll history is face makeup, you don’t belong in the hall.

whoa, seriously, KISS is legendary for their music not just the makeup

BrutalMovement - March 15, 2010 reply

Kiss blows.

you obviously have no taste in good music, what do u like? That emo pop trash thats on MTV? Either way, as long as your a Browns Fan you got no true quams with me. Just can’t let nobody put down one of my favorite bands.

BrutalMovement - March 15, 2010 reply

Actually I was raised on classic rock, I listen to a little of everything. (almost, no emo or country) Rock, metal, blues, motown, rap(nothing newer than Bone Thugz), old school R&B, you name a genre and there just might be someone from it I listen to. If it makes you feel any better though, I did marry a KISS fan.

I find it funny how people who don’t listen to your music assume that you listen to emo pop thrash on MTV.

I am a classic rock fan and dislike Kiss a lot.

Kiss belongs in the Rock Hall. Like it or not, Alive and Alive 2 made thousands of kids pick up a guitar. Is their music simplistic and juvenile? Yes of course, but Alive and Alive 2 inspired thousands of kids to pick up a guitar or bass.

If shit like Abba and the Bee Gees is in the rock hall Kiss sure as hell belongs there. Not taking away anything from them even though I don’t care for them but Kiss has had way more influence on Rock then thay have.

Just because you don’t like a band doesn’t mean they suck or haven’t had an influence.

I can look at the list of artists in the hall and list many I can’t stand (Paul McCartney solo, Lynard Skynard, Steely Dan, Dead, Springfield, ect..) but I can’t deny they belong.

And sorry but I’d take Kiss over Panic! at the disco, Falloutboy or Young Chingy or Jeezy or whatever the rap flavor of the day is. God help the poor kids of today. Nothing but garbage out there at least in the mainstream.

mgtbfb - March 15, 2010 reply

ABBA ≠ Shit

disagree.

Music = Subjectivity

Young Chingy lol

It’s the grumpy old man in me coming out. I imagine I sound like my parents did when I brought home NWA, Iron Maiden and Alice in Chains

mgtbfb - March 15, 2010 reply

Understandable. I hate rap.

I really liked quite a bit of it at one time. IMO, Hip Hop and RnB was incredible thru most of the 80’s and 90’s.

mgtbfb - March 15, 2010 reply

Look at it today, though. It’s awful.

I agree.

False.

If you only look at what the three radio stations in America play, maybe.

And even that brand of hip hop has inspired a lot of highly intelligent critical debate in “fine art”.

I agree, there’s some good rap out there if you know where to look.

Only up to the early 90’s though, otherwise I agree with this statement.

there are occasionally exceptions, but it is a good general rule,

I dislike most rap b/c it is unoriginal and has no purpose. NWA was great and they were extremely talented.

Most of NWA didn’t write their own lyrics and we can only speculate about the production.

what evidence do you have that they didn’t write it?

And the Producer was usually Dr. Dre…who was a member of the grou.

MC Ren and Ice Cube wrote most of the early stuff and after Cube left the D.O.C. stepped in to his writing shoes.

Dre is notorious for using the production of others and putting his name on it.

Easy E was notorious for using ghostwriters.

well, they weren’t the only ones writing back then. Maybe later on they didn’t do 100% their own stuff but in the early days they did all of the work really.

No Ren and Cube wrote everything. Ren and Cube were NWA by the way. The other 3, Yella, Dre and easy couldn’t write their way out of a kindergarten assessment.

Dre did most of his production during the NWA and Chronic days. After that he “collaborated,” with others. You can easily check the credits for that.

“were in NWA”

I know about MC Ren and Cube. They didn’t write everything but did write a lot of it.

I disagree about Easy and Dre. they did write some and their stuff was good too.

I am not arguing about their later work, but their stuff I agree with. I think of NWA as ending in about 1989.

After this I’ll stop because your memory is not as good as you think.

After 1989, NWA had released all of one album and appeared on this album on 3 songs.

On their first album Easy E got credit on 3 of the 13 songs, Dr. Dre none.

okay…

I am not saying Easy E and Dr Dre did a ton, but they did do a bit. Ren and Cube definitely did more, but Easy and Dre were not just standing there…

I don’t know why you seem to have this vendetta against them…I am not even disagreeing with you.

Don’t get me started on the HoF, I refuse to call it the rock hall when they unduct groups such as ABBA, and book acts such as Britney Spears. Rock n Roll is the counterculture to such pop acts and calling it the Rock n Roll hall of fame is a mockery of what rock is.

*induct

Again, wrong.

Whatever roots Rock n Roll had in “counter” culture were quickly adopted into mainstream music and became a part of a giant moneymaking machine.

All of those “rebellious” songs are on car commercials. Philosophers question if resistance/rebellion/“counter culture” to pop music is even possible from within music.

Philosophers question if resistance/rebellion/"counter culture" to pop music is even possible from within music.

Sure, but philosophers question everything, so YMMV.

Just because some people sold out doesn’t make the music any less part of the counter-culture, and on this one we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I’m not going to sit here and tell you most of those bands belong in the rock hall, because they don’t. but just because other bands made it into the hall doesn’t mean others do.

KISS has had zero influence on rock. they didn’t do anything different than every single shitty pop-metal band that came before them. For me, you have to be important to get in the rock hall. If you want KISS in the hall then you have to let in anyone who sells a bunch of records, regardless of merit.

Does image creation and persona building count as influence and creativity?

I don’t even care about influence, I care about good for my personal Hall. Kiss is not good.

Roger, you have me curious…what music do you listen to?

My favorite is classic rock – favorite bands Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, AC/DC. I also like R&B, soul from when it was good in the 60’s and 70’s – Temptations, Earth Wind and Fire. I like hard rock and grunge rock from the late 80’s and early 90’s – GNR, Nirvana. I like Van Morrison a lot. I like certain prog rock type bands like Styx and Supertramp. I like rap from the late 80s, but primarily 90s. I also really like classical music.

I dislike rap from the 00’s, soft rock, reggaton, punk, heavy metal (anything heavier than AC/DC is probably too heavy), and probably 85% of hair metal. I am sure I am forgetting something.

It may be a little heavy for you but check out “Breaking Benjamin” with songs like “I will not bow” or “Shamans Harvest” with songs like “Dragonfly”. They are pretty good, they start off somewhat heavy, but have more of a classic rock feel afterwards. PS…I must admit, I play a lot of classical music from AOL Radio online while at work as well.

or maybe even Symphony X, Dream Theater, Liquid Tension Experiment, Rush…all of these are heavy but are not truly “metal” IMO. DT is, but they have a really classic feel to them at times. DT are like if Yes (or the who) met Metallica.

I love Rush.

Rush kicks ass.

yep…

Rec, coolest Canadians ever, and probably the most talented musical trio ever.

Cream.

Rush is better hands down, and still together.

DBN, hotbed of Rush fandom?

Yes, I’m a fan as well, although anything pre-1980 really only works for me as nostalgia any more….

I like Rush too but Let’s break it down.

Jack Bruce>Geddy Lee Slight Advantage: Cream

Eric Clapton>>>>Alex Lifeson Massive Advantage: Cream

Ginger Baker<<Neil Peart. Advantage: Rush

Geddy Lee was good but Jack Bruce was a bit better.

Lifeson is a good musician but Clapton was worlds better.

Neil Peart may be the best drummer in history (up for debate…I can’t decide so have a 3 way time btwn him, Moon, and Bonham)…Ginger baker however, is also one of the best drummers of all time. while he isn’t on the level of peart, he is on the next level. He is on the level with Ian Paice, Mike Portnoy. While Peart is on most lists as the best drummer of all time, Ginger baker is usually in the top 10.

I can agree with most of that but give the first one to Rush, Geddy Lee outplayed the guy from Yes (Chris Wakeman?) for the title of fastest keyboardist on that show Bonzai.

yeah. because being a fast keyboardist makes you the best bassist right?

It is close but I have to go with bruce…like I said it is pretty close.

either way, there is no way you say lifeson is even close to the level that Clapton is.

And for all that I love about Peart, ginger baker is almost as good.

No it just states the point that he is a very talented musician, that can play multiple instruments.

yes…Just to show how actually bruce is more versatile I will give you a list of instruments played by both.

Lee: Bass, vocals, keyboards, guitar

Bruce: Vocals, bass, double bass, piano, harmonica, guitar, keyboards, cello

Now look whose versatile.

Bruce also wrote most of the songs when he was in cream. he was a brilliant songwriter and although lee wrote a lot for Rush, I have to give the edge here slightly to Bruce.

(fun fact, on the song Crossroads, bruce was said to have had the 2nd best live bass performance in a song in rock history).

Lee played the harmonica too did he not?

I don’t believe he did. maybe in one song…or two, but not at all to the extent that bruce did.

Speaking of great baselines, Roundabout by Yes has my favorite of all time.

Oh. I will totally agree on that. that is an amazing base line. Chris squire is amazing…

even though we are arguing, I still think that Zeppelin is better than either.

Jimmy Page=Clapton…maybe slight edge to clapton

John Paul Jones (bass)=Geddy Lee or Bruce. all of these guys are great and similarly talented…maybe Jones is the best by a bit.

John Bonham=Peart>Ginger Baker. After Peart as the best drummer of all time, I consider Bonham number 2.

Jimmy Page>>>>>>>>>>Jack Bruce or Lee Singing. No Explanation Needed. one of the best rock wailers in history.

You will never get an argument out of me about Zeppelin being the best. My 5 favorite groups in no particular order are: The Doors, Led Zep, Rush, Black Sabbath, and Pink Floyd ( even though the Buzzard played them out during the fake “we’re changing formats in a month” thing in the mid to late 90’s).

yep…arguing was also a harsh word. I think we were having a fun debate…b/c with music everyghing is fun.

I will not disagree with you on your list. I probably replace The Doors with either Cream or the Who. BS is good but I am very partial to AC/DC.

Recently, I am in love with Floyd. That is all I listen to..

I wouldn’t call it an argument either, usually at least one person is pissed off in an argument lol

I’d trade Peart for Baker, but only if you throw in a second round pick.

so peart and a 2nd for baker, or the other way around?

No disrespect to Ginger Baker at all, but If I’m giving up Peart for him, I’ve got to get something else as well.

This is what I assumed you meant.

I like Rush, but, no…not even close.

I agree.

Jack Bruce is highly underrated IMO.

Absolutely.

yep..and in some circles ginger baker. most people that truly know drums recognize him but he doesn’t show up on most user created top 10 lists…but those aren’t that reliable anyways…

Agreed. Fond of some of the work he did in association with Bill Laswell in the early 90s.

It’s all Clapton’s fault, you know.

that baker is underrated?

Yes, that Baker is underrated.

I don’t understand it…the only possible scenario I see is that clapton is awesome and baker was in a band where clapton was sort of the bandleader.

I think Clapton soaked up all the spotlight.

Clapton is more talented than anyone in Rush.

Personal opinion, but I’ve always been mainly indifferent to Clapton. (Heresy!)

Also applies to Hendrix, though the rest of the Experience are so bad that they don’t even enter into the equation for best trio.

Out of the 4 “Main” sidemen Hendrix employed the bass players (Billy Cox and Noel Redding) added little but the drummers (Buddy Miles and Mitch Mitchell) were solid. Mitchell was pretty creative and I enjoyed Miles attack. I like a hard hitting drummer ala Bohnam.

probably the most talented musical trio ever

if you exclude the tens of thousands of jazz and sometimes classical artists who routinely play in the trio format. And have a very narrow definition of the word “talent.”

Not trying to bust your chops…just sayin’.

yeah this is how i feel. Putting 3 great musicians together does not necessarily make a good band. Take DMB for example, all extremely talented musicians, but together they just sound like any other jam band.

I think there are plenty of trios of lesser musicians who were able to write and play better songs than rush and cream.

John, Paul, George.

End of conversation.

Ryan Kelsey - March 16, 2010 reply

Page, Jones, Bonham. (If we needed further evidence.)

This.

Se I was speaking of a band that consists of three people, The Beatles and Led Zep were four man bands, by the way, everyone who has been lining up to tear my opinion apart, it is just that, my opinion.

*see

I was counting bands with 3 instrument players, and tossing the vocalists. The Beatles had 4 instrumentalists, Zeppelin 3.

See you kind of proved my point about The Beatles, and I admit I could have been a little more clear in the comment that started this whole shpeel, As far as Zep goes, best band ever, period. That being said, John Paul Jones didn’t have to worry about the vocals while he strummed away.

there are very few bands that use the power trio format. there was cream and rush...

the police
CSN
ELP
Oysterhead
ZZ Top
Motorhead

The problem is there are not a ton of bands, let alone great bands with only 3 members.

And of course, the immortal Blue Cheer (“Ain’t No Cure for the Summertime Blues”)

What about punk bands, blues trios, or other alternative bands?

Props to the Beatles but if I can only listen to one band for the rest of my days its Led Zep.
Achillies Last Stand FTW

As someone who doesn’t even listen to classic rock on a weekly basis, it’s still gotta be the beatles

Speaking of narrow definitions of the word talent, I love it when people tout jazz players as a breed because of their technical chops, as if that alone is the be all and end all of music. Sort of like hailing Jamarcus Russell because of his famous throwing from his knees party trick. (And you thought this would be off topic.)

Again, not trying to bust anyone chops, just saying. Horses for courses.

Well, technique is an important aspect of musicianship. If you don’t have the technique, you have to make compromises in your message. There are a lot of rock musicians with great chops, and also many who don’t have anything resembling outstanding technique. That’s less true in jazz, partly because it’s a highly technical medium, and partly because the audience tends to be much more sophisticated, and with a deeper (though not necessarily broader) base of knowledge. Contemporary jazz isn’t easy to listen to, and I say that as a practicing jazz musician myself. It can seem to be all about technique (and there’s a small segment of the market that does think this way), but for most jazzers the technique is a means of expression, and not the end in itself. Actually, it’s nothing like the Russell example: it’s his lack of technique which inhibits his performance, possibly combined with a lack of talent.

I made the “talent” comment, because I think the concept of talent is generally misunderstood. To me, talent is about a person’s native ability -their physical and genetic gift. Talent is too often confused with ability. Ability can be developed, but strictly speaking, talent can’t. I know there’s not universal agreement on this definition, but that was my thinking.

drjeo, there’s enough in your comment here to spin off into an entirely new thread – which would rightfully belong on another forum, alas.

I’m a jazz listener if a bit of a scattershot one. (I’m currently hooked on Byard Lancaster.) It does sometimes seem to me that the modern genre is a bit obsessed with ritual displays of cleverness (a la Russell and some workout warriors) over the achievement of musical goals, valuing technique über alles (and tiny audiences of fellow technicians over broader appeal). I think perhaps the ‘sophistication’ becomes enforced and generates a certain elitism. Not all tools need be employed for every task – sometimes a rusty hammer is the just and proper thing for the job. (Man, I could go on here about technical limitations and the impact they have on artists both good and bad, but I digress enough.)

All that said, I appreciate your perspective as a playing musician here. Well said!

I wish other forums would build on the SBN model. So much easier to read and interact (bar the subject line).

skipkirk - March 17, 2010 reply

rush always gets a rec.

Dream Theater… HA!

Brownie's Year - March 15, 2010 reply

I was with you til you dissed Metal haha.

yep.

Uh huh

I’m just curious, but when you say “metal” what types of bands are you referring to?

and by that I mean are we talking Metallica or As I Lay Dying. (both are good imo)

Metal is classified under soooo many different genres. The word "Metal" is obsolete.

Metal would be an umbrella term today, slightly like rap though I highly think there’s more types of metal. (don’t quote me, I don’t listen to new rap)

Call me a Homer, but Mushroomhead is close to the top of my metal list, Iron Maiden being the pinnacle, I like Arc Enemy, Dethklok (yeah it’s a cartoon but they kick ass, Brendon Small is phenomenal), I consider Black Sabbath and Led Zep the pioneers of metal, Mudvayne, I like a lil hair metal like Motley Crue (but not Ballad HM like Poison), and Metallica is ok so long as it’s from Reload or earlier.

arch*

I respect that type of metal for what it is, and I like a lot of it, but for some reason its never been something I like more than a little bit. Personal taste I guess.

Deathclok?? Deathclok??
Your music opinion is dead to me.

I could say the same to you for hating on the Ramones. Also it’s Dethklok

Funny cartoon, awesome music, what more could you ask from a 12 minute show?

Dethklok is a real band dude.

Yeah I know they did a tour for the Dethalbum.

My drummer is huge on "Dethklok". We constantly rip on him and avoid riding in his car because he has control of the music. One day he threw in some GG Alan. That was it for me.

Haha GG Allen…gross.

There are about a million guitar players that would disagree with you, me among them. Ace Frehley and Kiss inspired tons of artists, many of whom you probably listen to: Metallica, Pantera, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Smashing Pumpkins, ect…

Entirely subjective and probably untrue.

What is untrue?

maybe people like KISS and that partly inspired them to pick up a guitar. more likely people liked rock music in general so they picked up a guitar.

More to my point though, I meant Kiss didn’t add anything to the music. They didn’t advance rock and roll in any way other than encouraging costumes and makeup. Their music was completely unoriginal, and I consider originality a huge aspect of being considered a great band. Anybody who could play at a decent level could have written those songs, and hundreds of bands wrote songs just like them way before KISS got their start, but they didn’t have the image. That’s all KISS did better than anybody else, sell an image.

I’m also curious as to how you know those bands were inspired by KISS, especially when its been established that Kurt Cobain got into music when his brother started taking him to a bunch of punk shows. take this however you want, since its from wikipedia, but…

As a teenager living in Montesano, Cobain eventually found escape through the thriving Pacific Northwest punk scene, going to punk rock shows in Seattle

I’m also curious as to how you know those bands were inspired by KISS

Well you could go to Kirk Hammett’s bio page.

Kirk, being inspired by Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, UFO, Aerosmith, KISS, and Steely Dan,

Ok, there’s one, care to explain the others?

also, Its not surprising that someone in a metal band would be inspired by KISS.

I find it hard to believe that the Smashing Pumpkins shared a lot of musical similarities with KISS.

Its not surprising that someone in a metal band would be inspired by KISS.

Then why the-uproar over his comment?

Bernie19Kosar - March 17, 2010 reply

I would imagine because the rest of the list aren’t metal bands. Pantera, but everyone else, I would be hard pressed to label metal.

Yeah, I can see metallica and pantera being influenced by KISS, but none of the rest. (maybe pearl jam)

personally I prefer this :)

http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/People/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Yodel.wav

this made me laugh

I couldn’t resist…I don’t know enough about music to even begin to get into this conversation with you guys

I agree with this, it seems like all they did was take a Springstein sound, a Sabbath sound (and even saying Sabbath is overly favorable), and threw it in a blender with their sisters’ makeup and called it new.

Weezer. They are how i listened to kiss. Didn’t take but still got a taste.

Weezer.

Amazing: Blue Album.
Great: Green Album, Pinkerton
Good:Maladroit, Raditude, Red Album
Meh: Make Believe

I’m a little harder on them than that but i would tend to agree with the order. My one exception being I am among the few who liked Pinkerton as much as if not more than the blue album.

When it was issued, it was considered one of the worst albums of all time, but people recognized their mistake and it’s now considered essentially second or third best. Nothing beats the Blue Album dude, I’m sorry. That’s almost universally accepted as the norm.

I think for me the reason i like pinkerton so much is because it represents them doing what they wanted to do. every album since then they’ve been trying to recapture what they had on the blue album instead of doing what they felt like doing. I believe that if pinkerton wouldn’t have been so heavily criticized upon release we wouldn’t be faced with the washed-up boring weezer we have today.

Indeed. It was definitely a confidence killer. And like 5 years later Rolling Stones goes “My bad!”

Yeah, too late.

It makes me so sad to think of what might have been… sigh

totally agree….they regress like every album

Dusty springfield or buffalo??

Yeah. Cause Buffalo Springfield is awesome.

skipkirk - March 16, 2010 reply

yeah…Not only did they have great songs but how can you say this lineup:

Neil Young
Steven Stills
Jim Messina

Can be bad at all. It was the launching pad for these 3 great artists’ careers. Without Buffalo springfield there might not be CSN&Y.

Dusty Springfield is also one of the best female singers in rock history. she was the first true white sould singer, had a great voice, and made some amazing songs (such as “son of a preacher man”)…

but now that i think about it, he was talking about artists he respected but didn’t enjoy.

I think CS&N were better off without Y not a fan of Young myself.

I liked them with Young…but that’s just me. my favorite song of theirs was Ohio and that was not only with young, but written by him.

Massive fan of both. When they were together though.. a bit off.

I think I say this because I prefer the acoustic side of CSN.

skipkirk - March 16, 2010 reply

Is their music simplistic and juvenile? Yes of course, because that is the nature of popular music of any genre in general

FIxed.

Rec.

I wasn’t a huge KISS fan until I got free tickets to their concert.

Freaking unreal.

yes. they are great live…

by the logic they shouldn’t get in b/c they are simplistic, neither shoud the ramones b/c they used simplistic chords but they impacted music.

I didn’t say simplistic, I said unoriginal. The Ramones revolutionized rock and roll and essentially invented modern punk music. KISS piggybacked on every single arena rock group that came before them, with the difference being they wore face paint.

I disagree that Kiss was unoriginal. They were not extremely original and they were fairly simplistic, but they were not unoriginal to the hyperbole that you describe.

the only original thing about them was their image, and even that may be giving too much credit.

They were on an episode of “Extreme Home Makeover” not long ago. the people they were helping were musicians that were struggling to help the community and school with teaching music and giving supplies. Kiss donated quite a bit for them. I don’t care for their music, but showed they are good guys

I hate that show.

somehow that seems appropriate for you…@sshole….j/k

The show is an awesome premise, I just don’t like Ty (or Chad for that matter) Pennington.

they are decent, interesting people. they are decent, uninteresting musicians.

they are great guys.

btw, I love the new signature.

I too like that sig

Kimble’s?

yep

oh…I thought you said I don’t like it…I was wondering why…

thanks! I am just now exploring all the different options for my profile. I looked for most of the day yesterday, trying to find a good one that I really liked. Found this one early, but kept looking. Eventually came back to it as my favorite.

WHAT arena Rock bands that came before them? If they ripped off anyone it was the New York Dolls, a band that I’d venture to say 99% of America has never heard of.

The Misfits had more to do with today’s punk rock than the Ramones ever did. My guitar player is obsessed with The Misfits (yes, I’m in a band). I have heard this argument for over 15 years. The Misfits always come out on top. I can’t stand either of the two really.

Danzig is ok, plus he kinda sounds like Jim Morrison sometimes, I think he would have been a better frontman for the 21st century Doors than that guy from the Cult.

TILL YOUR BLEEDING!

you’re right, the misfits are more influential on todays punk than the ramones. I should have said they invented punk, not modern punk. They are credited with starting the “wall of sound” but sounded almost nothing like many punk bands of today.

whats the name of your band btw? ever play any shows in cleveland? Punk shows are the most fun shows in my opinion, possibly tied with ska. Of course when I say ska I generally mean ska-punk, so i guess its still punk.

The band name is "From Nowhere". We’re not punk. We’re not classified. We’ve had tons of people ask us what we call it. We call it "Nowhere". Even though we take it serious, we never really tried to take it to that next level. We all have families and jobs, and real life is more important. We do have hookups in the industry (Capitol to name one), but the risk of touring just to prove ourselves isn’t worth it. There are millions of bands out there, and only a few each year make it big.
We are here to create the type of music that we ourselves would listen to. WE are the rusty screwdriver into the crying diaries of that “right now…but not tomorrow music” that permeates the airwaves.

No, we’ve never played Ohio. We’re based in the Los Angeles/San Diego area.

If you are looking for a decent local act in Cleveland check out 30 Seconds Out, or 3SO for short, they are awesome, wouldn’t know what to classify them under though.

There are a lot of local bands i like, but most are part of the indie/twee/hipster scene, so i’m always open to new stuff.

but Punk in general wouldn’t be what it was today without the Ramones. the ramones were the pioneers of Punk

How old are you?

Who told you that? VH1??

I am not saying it in a good or bad way. The ramones were one of the first good early punk bands.

However, it is funny you say VH1…I have found that the ramones were so consistently underrated and underappreciated in their time as a band, that now they are a bit overappreciated and bands like the misfits don’t get their due.

Dude, they’re nothing.

you just don’t like the ramones?

I understand what they are.

Yes. I understand too. I am not even a huge fan of the ramones. there are punk bands I like better. I respect them though.

they were the pioneers, but the misfits have a lot more in common with modern punk bands than the ramones do.

I agree. I like both. I never said that the ramones had much in common with modern punk. I said exactly what you said. they are pioneers.

I know a whole scene that disagrees with you.

Yeah as soon as I typed that I thought “I’ll bet there are plenty of bands out there that still sound like the ramones.” But I still think most punk bands today are more misfits than ramones.

notthatnoise - March 18, 2010 reply

To be fair, a lot of the bands I know who are in the Ramones’ vein are really obscure.

rufio - March 19, 2010 reply

I’m ending this right now. "Sade" is the best ever. No one compares.

That explains it all.

If you break it down, music is like politics. It shouldnt be allowed on here.

I thought we’d actually done fairly well having a civil conversation about such things here, at least until “Band X is nothing” and “Your opinion is dead to me” type comments started arriving….

I take music very seriously. Politics as well. I write music and have a strong opinion about it.
It shouldn’t be allowed on here to save you guys from me. That was my point.

Just saying man, but just because you’re in a garage band, doesn’t mean you have the correct opinion to music.

RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 18, 2010 reply

There are correct opinions on music? When was that decided? Why didn’t anybody tell me sooner?

drjeo - March 17, 2010 reply

This conversation is hilarious. A fight to the death among the clueless.

golanbatrac - March 17, 2010 reply

Does not every post you type sound like you’re better/smarter than the person you’re replying to? Keep doing your thing, colontrack. Attacking everyone doesn’t get you banned.

Brownie's Year - March 18, 2010 reply

Ah, but golanbatrac usually is better and smarter, so it’s forgiven.

I am starting to think that golanbatrac is actually glenn beck…because according to beck, he is better and smarter than all of us…

bross09 - March 18, 2010 reply

Ah, but golanbatrac usually is better and smarter, so it’s forgiven.

I recommend this post.

RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 18, 2010 reply

I thought you might.

Does not every post you type sound like you’re better/smarter than the person you’re replying to?

Do I detect an inferiority complex?

nope

Brownie's Year - March 18, 2010 reply

You sure about that?

I am noticing some cognitive dissonance Golan.

SpecialBrownie - March 18, 2010 reply

had to REC for “colontrac”…sorry Golan but that is funny!

Kimble_79 - March 18, 2010 reply

Haha, I didn’t say there were, but that’s what it seems he’s trying to get at. That because he plays the triangle in a polka band in his grandmother’s garage doesn’t mean he knows anything about music.

….because he plays the triangle in a polka band in his grandmother’s garage doesn’t mean he knows anything about music.

Warning: Button Pushing Ahead!

warning: you just replied to button pushing.

Warning: I Wasn’t the Target

whoops

RelapsingDawgCatcher - March 18, 2010 reply

Heh. No worries. As it turns out SB and BY are fast friends and are apparently arranging to conduct a skin triangle duet in Hitler’s grandmother’s basement, or some such thing.

Gross.

SpecialBrownie - March 18, 2010 reply

skin triangle? that’s pretty nasty. HAHA

Brownie's Year - March 18, 2010 reply

It’s ok, I like SB.

I like you too. Bromance.

is there an online internet hotel where you two can get a room?

Dawg Nuts - March 18, 2010 reply

Facts and opinions are different. Opinions are meant to be argued.
If you can’t tell the difference, then I’m sorry.

And yes, I play the triangle in my grandmother’s garage. I guess it’s better than you playing the skin flute in your’s.

Oh no, I don’t play it personally, I’m the conductor my friend.

And of course opinions can be argued, I don’t know why you need to be sorry if I couldn’t understand the difference but whatever. But there’s a point where you become egocentric and take your opinion as fact.

That’s because it’s MY opinion.

I could tell you Hitler’s opinion if you’d like…

By the way, this is a joke. We’re getting a little far.

It’s all good.

You stand there with a stick while people play the skin flute?

Well… not people.

More like person.

We play shows around SoCal. Hardly a garage band.

You’d rather argue that instead of me claiming you played the triangle, played polka or practiced at your grandmas?

I did. I was typing it out.

Fair enough. You can actually have strong opinions without having to trash others to validate them. When I can’t do that myself, I try to opt out of the discussion in question.

It’s a discussion not a competition. And if you write about music you would know a lot of the discussion is subjective. Just because you know every band ever doesn’t mean your opinion is always right.

Music IS a competition to me.

huh? Talking about music or playing music? I could see being competitive when talking about your playing ability but really, talking about music is a competition?

I don’t think anyone is doubting your knowledge, just offering different opinions(taste).

You and I are not the same person. The whole thing is a competition, to me

Why?

I understand that, which is why i’m trying to figure out why. Did you get kicked out of the band nerd group in high school for wearing the wrong ironic band t on band nerd Tuesday?

Villeslgr - March 18, 2010 reply

recced for having no idea what this even means.

gahnki - March 18, 2010 reply

And that doesn’t explain crap. i can go toe-to-toe about music with you.

you seem like an easily agitated person, what it does explain is that we have very different tastes in music, which isn’t a bad thing.

you seem like an easily agitated person

What ever gave you that idea? :)

I love Sade, they just came out with a new album.

She’s downright amazing. And this is coming from a metal head.

MC5?

MC5 is definitely important, but more so for being that bridge between traditional rock and punk rock. This is highly debatable of course, but I personally would count bands like the ramones and sex pistols as the first true punk rock bands. I’d like to emphasize though that I realize this is up for discussion.

The more I think about it the more I actually feel like the sex pistols one studio album might be a lot more like modern punk than the ramones. can’t really explain why specifically, it just feel that way to me.

I met them once. My best friend worked at a video store (lots of horror, go figure) and his manager was friends with them. We brought fiend club badges to their show and got in free, got backstage. It was pretty cool. They are enormous.

I bet the Ramones have inspired a lot of punk that you don’t even know about.

Also I was under the impression that there wasn’t music on MTV anymore, just “reality” shows, and who wants to bone Flava Flav type stuff.

The only thing more horrible than KISS is the KISS Unpluged album. God damn, they suck.

Brownie's Year - March 15, 2010 reply

Well that I can agree with. LOL.

so the "Fox Watch" in Brownstown has officially begun. More on that later

Seriously Lombardi? Are you that desperate for news attention that you just begin making up your own rumors?

This has been a real rumor since Holmgren came

seriously?

Yes.

I did not know that…not sure what I would even think of that

We have a coach.

bromance?

Golan has a man crush on Mangini, but yes, we do indeed have a coach.

I don’t buy the rumor.

I’m a Mangini aficionado.

I still think Eric is calling the shots on D, at least in regards to the players he spent the last year coaching.

I like what we are doing. We have a great offensive mind in Holmgren and two great defensive minds in Mangini and Rob Ryan.

As long as nobody trys to grab power on the wrong side of the ball the Browns should have great schemes on both sides and be very well coached overall.

agree, Heckert and Mangini have heavy influence on decisions I’m sure

Yes, it’s been a rumor along with Holmgren returning to the sidelines after he and Heckert get the front office in order. Gruden is also on that rumor list. It does not take much creativity or thought for the national media to start the “_ will be replacing Mangini in 2011” discussion.

Spidey - March 15, 2010 via mobile reply

So Hillis is potentially the best player in that trade or going to have a hard time making the team.

Funny thing, both these things could be true.

Ryan Kelsey - March 15, 2010 reply

yeah, I’m having a hard time digesting Lombardi’s comments. Bronco fans have been on here saying they like the guy, we have been posting information about the guy and it all sounds good, but he may not make the team? Huh?

Lombardi hates us.

He hates Mangini more.

this is truth

Well, Hillis > Jennings already.

That’s a 3rd back for you.

We liked Steve Heiden. Doesn’t mean he was good.

I can see no reason why Hillis wouldn’t make the team. He can play 3rd RB and 2nd fullback. Come in in sub packages. No reason not to have a roster spot for him.

I was just on the raiders blog and I was pointing out how the trade works for both teams. one guy says he thinks that WImbley will likely get double digit sacks…any thoughts anyone?

He does have Richard Seymour to take away pressure.

the only thing in double digits with Oakland is the points they lose by

you forgot the 7 straight seasons of double digit losses sir

well…Wimbley had Shaun Rogers and Matt roth on the other side by the end of the season…

Honestly though, i pointed out why wimbley fits a 3-4 much better and will likely perform worse in the system…but I still think he will perform about the same as this year b/c next season is a contract yr.

Possible, unlikely.

More unlikely that it is of his own doing if he gets that many. If I am looking at Seymour on one side and Wimbley on the other, I am sending more of my blockers toward Seymour.

yes…but I just don’t believe he is truly good enough to get double digit sacks again.

Hillis might look good occasionally with the ball in his hands, but his lack of overall toughness without it has to be in question.

Toughness is different than inury. One is subjective and the other objective.

For instance, subjective would be Peyton Hillis punching Mike Lombardi and he cries. Objective would be Peyton Hillis punching Mike Lombardi and his nose breaks.

Mike Holmgren opened with a joke. Great sense of humor on that guy.

Wtf are you talking about?

Oh. nevermind

are u watching the press conference?

These reactions and comments remind me how difficult it is for the national media to follow 32 teams. It is a lot of personnel and decisions. Heck, all you need to do is read the media discussing the franchise QB ability of Quinn and the Wimberly-Suggs comparisons (from Mort) to know these people are not aware of all facts.

Lombardi? His questioning of where is Mangini could also apply to Heckert.

Prisco? Did you watch tape of Quinn and DA??? And Browns will be a disaster on 2010 if the team does not draft a QB in the first round?

Is there any way to start a list of these asenine comments?

Spidey - March 15, 2010 via mobile reply

I disagree about the QB in the first round, but I agree prisco is an idiot here.

You think the team will be a disaster without a first round QB? This team will be as bad as 2009?

Spidey - March 15, 2010 reply

It will be probably as bad as 2009…maybe slightly better. I am not saying the team is good, but by saying they will be a disaster if they don’t draft a QB implies that they should ONLY draft a QB in the first.

Also, having a rookie QB on the bench doesn’t make the 2010 Browns any better.

yep. exactly. unless we think bradford should start.

My favorite line from Prisco:

The one knock on Quinn is that he didn’t let it go last season, that he wouldn’t make the chance throw.

Yeah. That’s the one knock on Quinn.
What a hack.

bbstirrd - March 15, 2010 reply

I am surprised more writers don’t bring up his injury history

APV - March 15, 2010 reply

Yes. Both times Quinn was given the keys to the car he ended up on IR shortly after.

bbstirrd - March 15, 2010 reply

yep. I always mention that.

but the guy isn’t skinny like tony pike or Bradford was (or McCoy)…How can he get hurt?? those are freak injuries. they mean nothing…

just an example of the media in denial.

Holmgren politely insulting Savage’s picks: " I don’t think viewing where a player was chosen before I got here holds a lot of weight [in regards to viewing the value of the trades.]

Nah, thats just common football rhetoric. Once a player is drafted, his draft status doesn’t matter at all. Its all about how he actually performs on the field.

False.

As it turns out, how the player performs at age 24 and the draft status both matter. The fact that draft status matters, though, doesn’t automatically mean that all of it is due to teams starting high draft picks for no reason other than to justify their selection (though there is some of that). Some of the “draft status matters” is that the scouting is proven correct, and the limitations of separating quarterback performance measures from the contributions of teammates is shown, because the higher drafted quarterbacks perform better than lower drafted quarterbacks who happened to play about as well at age 24. The Troy Aikmans of the world sometimes pan out, and do so more frequently, than the below average performers who were not highly drafted….

…That said, the results also support that some highly drafted quarterbacks do get more opportunities than their performance dictates. This is something that I tried to look at last year in regard to Joey Harrington, and I do think that teams commit more false positive errors in regard to high picks (continuing to give them plays when the evidence suggests they are highly likely not to pan out) than false negatives (giving up on a high pick too soon, only to have him succeed elsewhere).

Link to very long study

It matters. Do you think we could have gotten the same value for Ratliff if he would have put up numbers comparable to Quinn? No.

Man, if you compare Malcolm Gladwell and Dr. Steven Pinker, you can hardly tell them apart.

the theory behind this I totally agree with.

Holmgren’s history as a high school teacher shines through here. His conferences are very didactic and explanatory.

One thing that is very clear, this group was not sold on either Quinn or Anderson. “I had film to go off of and it looked like these guys struggled.”

z

Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Cavs!

He asks the press conference how long we signed Delhomme and then acts surprised. He’s definitely in tune with the public perception of the deal.

Is this gonna b on the internet at some point?

Hope so.

yeah. I want to listen to/Watch this.

Chris will have a write up

not surprised. if not that I was expecting a fanpost/fanshot/story with a transcript/link to audio/link to video.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/mediaplayer.php?id=6809

These things are always put on clevelandbrowns.com

Brownie's Year - March 15, 2010 reply

ask and you shall receive…conference

Ok, this is so random but Holgren could pull off being a mall Santa haha.

Definitely don’t need a chubby suit. He’s got that one covered. Please don’t hurt me for that Mike!!!

I laughed at this.

Reporter asks Holmgren about Sam Bradford: “I like Sam a lot. He’s a special player.”

Smokescreen.

I wouldn’t even say that- just an honest answer to a straightforward question.

Thats what Holmgren wants you to think.

and in reality, Joe Thomas is behind you

Joe Thomas is never behind anyone, he’s right in front of you, ready to knock you on your @$$, unless your name is Jerome Harrison and you are running past the line.

Regardless of it being Harrison or not, if you’re in front of Thomas you’re going down.

speaking of, I was on Warcraft today and someone made a Chuck Norris joke, I promptly replied that Chuck Norris checks for Joe Thomas under his bed at night. Man you’d think I just called the virgin Mary a whore during Christmas Mass at the Vatican. It’s amazing how idiots can make you nt want to d something you enjoy.

Not sure why i sat there for a few seconds trying to figure out if “nt want to d” was some kind of video game lingo i wasn’t hip to

Villeslgr - March 16, 2010 reply

nope that would be another key acting up on this $1000 turd of a laptop. The moral of the story is don’t buy a tough book. Sure you can run it over, set it on fire, etc. and it will still run just fine, so long as you never have to hit the v key or the spacebar.

LEEEEEERRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYY JENKIIINNNSS

pretty much

“We have absolutely no shot at getting him”

We probably have a better shot at Leroy Jenkins heard his combine workout was poor…

(love the WOW reference that is one of the classics)

I’d draft Leroy.

I dunno he doesn’t listen to instructions, totally not a Mangini type.

North Coast Flea - March 18, 2010 reply

but he’s always ready to jump right into the game.

notthatnoise - March 18, 2010 reply

I foresee a lot of 12th man violations in his career.

North Coast Flea - March 18, 2010 reply

I foresee a lot of false starts

notthatnoise - March 19, 2010 reply

I had a feeling he liked bradford.

Reporter asks Holmgren about Ndamukong Suh: "I like Suh a lot. He’s a special player."
Reporter asks Holmgren about Gerald McCoy: "I like Gerald a lot. He’s a special player."
Reporter asks Holmgren about Russell Okung: "I like Russell a lot. He’s a special player."
Reporter asks Holmgren about Joe Haden: "I like Joe a lot. He’s a special player."
Reporter asks Holmgren about Dez Bryant: "I like Dez a lot. He’s a special player."

Spidey - March 15, 2010 reply

He was very earnest in his praise. Said a bit more about his personality. He clearly legitimately likes Sam Bradford.

Even better – either he makes a move for Bradford if the situation is right (which is good), or he is a really good actor.

Thanks a lot for the play-by-play.

Spidey - March 15, 2010 reply

Everyone’s special. It’s important to boost a person’s self-esteem.

woodsmeister - March 15, 2010 reply

                         “We’re all special, in our own way
                         Everybody’s different but that’s
                         okay ‘Cause even though we might
                         have different color skin, different
                         points of views, be tall or thin —
                         It doesn’t mean I can’t lay you down,
                         woman and touch your silky skin -
                         Put my love deep inside you where no
                         man has ever been - Rub your legs,
                         caress your thighs and….”

                           Chef

Stupid dashes, that’s what I get for copy+paste I guess.

Holmgren: “What we now have are options. We can do a lot in this draft- even trade ten picks for the one spot.”

buuuuuh!

It was said in a joking manner. Sorry for confusion.

I’d sure as hell hope so.

Instant classic.

I hope this sticks around

Perfect.

looking at the standard NFL Draft chart the #1 pick in the draft is worth 3000 points. The Browns 1st 5 picks (7, 38, 71, 85, 92) are worth 2562 points. Thats almost what the #2 pick is worth (2600) & 362 points more than the #3 picks. So basically trading with STL is out (GM Billy Devaney is known for sticking with the chart), DET might do it based on how close it is. TB is a good spot but they are trying to do things cheap & may not want to sign all the draft picks. This is all for Bradford. I dont think Quinn’s success coming out of a Weis offense helps Clausen with Holmgren.

1. Clausen is not Quinn. They are different players.

2. The draft value chart is outdated and everyone knows that the top picks are not worth that much more than picks a few slots lower.

Mangini- “I like Hillis a lot. He had 226 yards against us in New York. He’s very productive as a tailback. We can use him as a tailback or fullback. He can catch passes. He can play special teams. He’s done a lot of good things in a young career.”

He can catch passes

What I really wanted to hear.

+1….There hasn’t been much catching going on around here lately :)

Holmgren: “I didn’t expect this many changes this soon because I didn’t know the roster.”

Implies that there was an even deeper talent deficit than could be views from the outside.

another smokescreen. He could easily have come in here knowing he was going to gut the offense and start anew with a new system.

Holmgren says there’s still a lot to do before the draft. Muy Interesante.

He also says future years will hopefully “not be so frantic” in the offseason.

Mangini talks about Fujita’s versatility- “Can play inside or outside, intelligent, can put hand in dirt if need be. Learning our system not an issue.”

Holmgren: “Quinn issue was on my mind constantly.” He labored over this one unlike D.A.

“Delhomme was not promised starting job, period. Promised a shot to compete, nothing more, nothing less. Wallace, Delhomme, and Raitliff will battle.”

….and Ratliff….

Oh boy

I’m stoked now!

To think, all these columnists have been obsessing over Wallace and Delhomme when our secret weapon and sole survivor has gone unnoticed by all but Holmgren – and mooncamping.

Ratliff = Mangini’s boy.

tribe71 - March 15, 2010 reply

This only furthers my belief that Moon is in our current FO.

Ratliff (read: that guy I draft maybe too, if he isn’t too raw.)

Holmgren on drafting a quarterback- “If you think he’s the guy, you take him. No matter where he is, you take him. You can’t be scared off of failures in year’s past. You take the guy if you believe in him. And then you coach him into the player you want him to be.”

“If you draft a freshman, {laughs}, rookie quarterback, you take him and put him in a position to succeed. You need a defense, special teams, and strong running game. If you don’t have those things, he take it on the chin…hard.”

Loving it.

Same.

Defense? Getting there.
Special teams? Check.
Strong running games? Probably check.

If the right side of the O- line pans out. We might not be so bad on offense next year. We’ll be able to pound the rock with the best of them.

The questions in my mind lie in the front 7. Assuming our first couple of picks go to the defensive secondary, our linebacking corps consists of unproven youngsters and a couple of aging veterans. our defensive line could be alright. if Rubin pans out as NT and Rogers makes an impact at 5tech. Depth still remains a question though.

A fossil could excel with these parameters too, no?

tribe71 - March 15, 2010 reply

Holmgren on Wallace:

" His team was a trainwreck last two years (OUCH!) He was thrown into a poor situation where he was asked to perform and he did ok. Young guys were playing around him, it was a horrible year, and we were clearly overmatched [referencing his last season now]. Watch Seneca pass the ball- he will impress you. Don’t be confused by his running ability. He’s a guy who will do whatever we ask."

Amazing swipe at the ’Hawks.

And a strong endorsement of Wallace, coupled with the ‘Delhomme doesn’t have the starting job’ statement. Hmm.

Smokescreen. Rubin under center. No one will ever see that one coming.

those 7 million reasons dont give enough for delhomme to be teh starter?

A lot of incentives.

Who cares? Do you really think Lerner is the type of owner to demand that one QB goes in the game because he is paying him more? What is this, Oakland?

Fun Fact: Kyle Orton, 4 years as starter, has never been the highest paid quarterback on his team.

I think the point about it being Wimbley’s last year of his contract should not be understated. It’s like a trade deadline deal in baseball almost when a free agent might walk. We just traded 1 year of Wimbley for 5-6 years of player X.

It’s not as pronounced an effect because of rookie inflation but a very good point nonetheless.

This. I read somewhere that the option year on his deal was over 7 million. I like Wimbley and think he’s under rated, but 7 million is more than he’s worth.

I think he is perfectly rated. he has talent but wildly inconsistent.

but that IS way more than he is worth.

right, i agree 100%, some team is going to really like him after this year and is going to throw big money at him, which we werent going to match. so instead of losing him for nothing, we trade him now.

rockybrown - March 15, 2010 reply

Holmgren on Delhomme:

He’s a friendly guy. He’s easy to like and his teammates will respect him.

Mangini coachspeaks on his ability for a little. Not that interesting.

Holmgren on Wallace again:

I would have loved to put him at other positions as well. We practiced it and he did well, but I was too nervous to do it. Eric isn’t as nervous as me; {laughs} he has the nerves to do it.

Eric Mangini and Jim Tressel should hold a press conference together. They graduated from the same school of Coach-speak.

Press Conference is over. Bruce Drennan is on. This is where we part.

Thanks for the play-by-play.

Seconded since I couldn’t catch it live.

Thanks man.

Thanks for the PxP on the press conference.

Very good read.

Yeah I just skipped over any of the Mangini parts. He’s not as awful as Romeo but you’re never gonna get anything other than a mouthful of greek salad from him about ‘process’ and ‘evaluation,’ etc. etc.

I really like Holmgren though. He is honest enough to be convincing without completely tipping his hand—which would be foolish at this point.

johnnyphoenix - March 16, 2010 reply

The idea that Hillis wouldn’t make the roster is absurd. Holmgren is getting rid of the players he doesn’t want now. In that process, he is not intentionally going to bring in another guy he doesn’t want.

APV - March 15, 2010 reply

yeah really. Hillis could be Brandon Jacobs-like. The browns are sure to find a couple of bulldozers to put on the right side of that offensive line. If nothing else, this team will be able to pound the rock next year.

That was definitely the worst suggestion by any media person I have seen to date. Lombardi continues to amaze.

What do you think Hillis could have gotten in a trade for draft picks? A sixth?

Spidey - March 15, 2010 via mobile reply

awesome, guys, couldnt catch the news conference, got all the info i needed. Sound promising!!

BrutalMovement - March 15, 2010 reply

Sup with all the spam? Does this have anything to do with the previous layout problems?

Or maybe we have been getting a ton of site hits recently…Any ideas mods?

After reading Spidey’s comment below that makes sense. The Browns have been in the new alot recently which i would imagine would lead to more site traffic.

This one guy has been doing this on all kinds of SBN blogs…not just DBN.

The spam was on one of the other discussion boards about Quinn I was reading today (cbssportsline? SI?). It’s annoying and a bit worrisome.

Spidey - March 15, 2010 via mobile reply

I don’t know, but they’ve been appearing all over SBN and not just on our blog. Somebody should contact SBN to see what they can do about it — maybe change the process to sign up for an account.

Buckeye Brad - March 15, 2010 reply

All they need to do is add a catpcha.

Is that where you have to type in words or numbers which are on the screen in funky writing?

Buckeye Brad - March 16, 2010 reply

Yep.

Those are good, half the time a real person has trouble deciphering what the words are….

yep

Trust me, with 200+ blogs and tons of members on each of them, when a problem arises, the tech teams knows about it immediately ;)

SBN had spammer issues awhile ago, and although it took a little bit of time (and rightfully so; it’s not easy to “defeat” a spammer without making it painful for non-savvy Internet users to sign up), they prevented a good percentage of spammers for quite awhile. The spam-bots have found a way again, and it shouldn’t be long before the tech team arrives at another solution.

If it really keeps happening on a daily basis, I’ll bump the member-waiting period to 1 day again and just make sure I check the registered users log every day and ban any spam-looking accounts before they can post.

(Note: this wasn’t necessarily a direct response to you Brad, I was talking to everyone who brought up the spam topic)

Chris Pokorny - March 16, 2010 reply

The spam doesn’t really bother me. They are not doing a good job of making me want to visit their websites.

Oh by the way, just so everyone knows, I changed my screen name from Jayson732 to my current one now, not that I ever really post a lot. Just thought Mr Orange fit much better than my real name on this site and that movie kicks some serious ass!!!!!
(only 5 exclamation marks for the grammar police :)….)

I agree, it’s a classic.

Mr. Pink is my favorite.

It’s all about Mr. White.

And what’s up with all the McDaniels love? Writers are making him into the next Paul Brown or Don Shula. It’s as if he took a 6-0 team to a big playoff run. Oh wait, that team choked the big one.

Spidey - March 15, 2010 via mobile reply

He’s a kid who loves the game. The Brett Favre of coaching if you will.

Not my work.

You guys may have harsh words, but I kinda like the guy

That was the only Brett favreish picture i could find, i didn’t add the words.

It’s bashing the McDaniels love and talk that he will turn Quinn into a franchise-grade QB.

Has he coached up any other QBs than Brady and Orton?

Spidey - March 15, 2010 via mobile reply

Cassel.

except that orton had already had a solid season with a lackluster supporting cast…there he had Brandon Marshall. I dunno how much credit you can give McDaniels for “coaching up” orton.

Well, let’s see how well people in Denver like him after last year’s collapse and…more importantly…a year of Brady Quinn being Brady Quinn and Kyle Orton remembering he’s Kyle Orton.

MEH.

johnnyphoenix - March 16, 2010 reply

McDaniels alienated like 4 of his better players in the span of a month or two.

Brandon Marshall has an immunity.

Don’t forget his DC left after one season.

yeah nice one McD. the real reason for your success there? mike Nolan.

Watch out for the dolphins.

I don’t much care for him.
But props to McDaniels on totally shellacking the Bears in the Cutler trade.

Simmsinns - March 16, 2010 reply

I think the guy is jerk and pretty tough to be around.

But I think he is one hell of a QB coach.

On another note: go watch eric berry’s combine presser.

Just reading it didn’t really do his personality justice for me. Kid kinda blew me away. Impressive presence. Compare him in front of the mic to Joe Haden.

I totally agree.

I love how Joe haden just nonchalantly said he wanted to be like Vick.

I think berry came of so professional whereas Haden not so much.

berry was also super classy in not talking smack about Lane.

I like how he just owned the room. Answered directly, honestly. Said he loved and chose to play defense. Came off as a class act, guy who is ready to be a professional.

yeah. I think I am in love…

we gotta draft this guy.

yep…Last time i said that about a prospect we drafted Joe Thomas.

this just made my day. I remember someone saying that berry leads too much with his head and will end up like brodney pool.

a) not all players that lead with their head are concussion prone

b) brodney pool had concussions in college..

the point was, that I tried to google eric berry concussions to see if he ever had any…all I could find was videos talking about this hit where he gave tebow a concussion.

someone said he leads with his head, I was the one who mentions concussions, while not all players who lead with their head get them, it does increase the chances.

it can increase the risk, but it definitely isn’t a reason to pass on a guy like berry. a guy who leads all the time with his head still might not ever get a concussion…oftentimes guys like pool had concussions in college. Berry was never hurt in college. he also doesn’t lead with his head as much as advertised though and much less than pool. it is a tendency but not yet a pattern or a habit.

Yes, and I said this before, It’s something that Rob Ryan can easily instruct him in.

film ive seen of his biggest hits, he leads with his shoulder and upper arm. occasionally ive seen him use his upper arm streched out like a hockey check when he has someone blindsided. Not once did i see him put his head down on someone.

Side note: Stafford Mays?

Big O Lerner, loosen your purse strings, and bag us Grossman and Sims. Culpepper?
Get a little crazy and nab Jared Zabransky and Chris Pizzotti. Then we´ll really have it out.

mooncamping - March 16, 2010 reply

do zabransky and pizzoti pay you royalties for each mention? because you surely can’t buy the shit you say about them, there has to be an alterior motive.

ulterior…but I get your point…grossman? Really?

thanks professor, next time i have to write a report i’ll send it to you to proofread first.

lol…

That is a word I use a lot in everyday life so I have learned how to spell it.

Live around a lot of conniving people?

no. I just always try to understand why someone does something. ulterior motives do not inherently mean the person is being decitful. sometimes people do not always express why or how they think, feel, or do a certain thing.

it happens a lot I have noticed in politics, ulterior motives…I will leave it at that.

decitful

ouch.

Ha Ha.

did I misspell something too??? Not surprising.

No royalties please. It´s not ulterior, it´s clear as day, that I´m doing my part to keep good players playing out of the goodness of my heart. I do rate them highly, and if I get a chance I´ll nab them.
What I always say is, don´t expect a reason, look for motivation.
When I lack logic or reason from you guys, I realize that all people are at least motivated if not justified. It helps me understand the nonsensical approaches around here.

mooncamping - March 17, 2010 reply

your reply’s never cease to amaze me. Reading these alone was worth joining the DBN network

What I always say is, don´t expect a reason, look for motivation.
When I lack logic or reason from you guys, I realize that all people are at least motivated if not justified. It helps me understand the nonsensical approaches around here.

Rec. This is life.

Well said.

Completely unrelated to football, but Tiger announced he will return for the masters this year

wow…this is a surprise? I already knew this was happening for a few reasons

a) Tiger doesn’t miss majors unless he physically can’t play. you gotta give him that. he is committed.

b) Its the masters. the big one…he isn’t going to let the media distract him

c) Unlike most tournaments, the masters is somewhat old school. the media and reporters are kept away from the playing field and players. this means less distractions for him,

d) He just played (or announced he would play) in a tournament. he always takes 1 tournament or so a few weeks before a major so he can get back into a groove. he did the same thing after his injury.

This means less ~~distractions~~ taunting for him.

Fixed.

I hope he does well. I don’t think what he did was right by any means, but some of these people that are saying he should never play golf again are crazy. He is one of the best, if not the best, golfer’s of our generation. Off the course issues or not, I hope he does well.

I agree. I still like phil ivey better.

about the only golfer I have problems with is Vijay Singh…I don’t have a particular reason why, he just annoys me as unintelligent as that sounds.

I don’t think that’s unintelligent at all. I have similar feelings about Singh. He just strikes me as arrogant. I don’t know if there’s a cultural aspect to the way he presents himself, but it can be pretty off-putting. Also, didn’t he have some issues with accusations of cheating earlier in his career, or am I remembering that incorrectly?

lol…phil ivey doesn’t play golf.

I knew I heard the name before, but didn’t know where from. I was just going with ya on that one. Poker player though. Which begs the question bross, how much BS are you putting out there in your facts? Huh?

none…

I didn’t say phil ivey was a golfer.

He is called the tiger woods of golf. he is black, softspoken, has a young face, and is very dominant (as dominant as you can be in poker).

I don’t follow poker much, i have a friend who is hooked on it though. I prefer to play standard wild card poker myself. Keeps things interesting.

actually, if he had a nike hat on he does resemble him a good bit

I am guessing you googled him. I agree. they both have that baby face and are both extremely softspoken…even for their field. without the sex scandal (though I don’t know much about ivey in this regard) they are eerily similar.

Except Ivey is 50 times cooler than Tiger :D Many of the poker pros do get together and play golf all the time though; just not professionally.

Chris Pokorny - March 17, 2010 reply

Well in fairness to non-fans of Tiger, I have felt the same way about Tiger since the beginning and the recent events did not change my perception of him.

I don’t like Tiger because of the way he acts on the course.

He shouts curse words, slams his clubs and sends his personal goon Steve Williams after people. Dude practically craps his pants if someone takes a picture of him.

One of the best golfers ever, but he just acts like a punk.

I tend to cuss, slam my clubs, and send my personal friends after more beers when I golf…LMAO

Me too, but I don’t have kids standing 30-40 feet away from me when I let loose.

*Not counting a Browns game of course.

I used to slam clubs too. Then I grew up.
Plus snapping the head off my 4, set of DCI’s at the time, really taught me a leason.

I have his autograph.

emily522 - March 16, 2010 reply

He is one of the best, if not the best, golfer’s of ~~our generation~~ all time.

Fixed.

As much as I am disappointed in Tiger and all that he did, there is no denying how incredible of a golfer he is. Statistically, there is no golfer that can compare to what he has accomplished. Many people think of Jack Nicklaus as the best golfer of all time, but think about this:

When Jack Nicklaus won his 66th tournament, his winning percentage stood at 19% (Which is still incredible, mind you)
When Tiger won his 66th tournament, his winning percentage was 28%. He was, and still is winning more than 1/4 of the tournaments he plays in…unreal.

Browns town - March 16, 2010 reply

Arnold Palmer was still in his prime for much of Nicklaus’ early career. Tiger hasn’t had much in the way of steady competition from an elite golfer.

I’m not denying that Palmer or Nicklaus were great golfers, but IMO Tiger is so far ahead of the rest of his competition that he has no real rival. I really do believe that if you put Tiger vs. Jack in their primes playing with the same equipment and playing on the same course, Tiger comes out ahead more often than not.

I’m not a fan of Tiger by any means, but anyone who has really devoted themselves to golfing has to understand how much of a challenge it is and must give him credit for the incredible things that he can do on the course.

Browns town - March 16, 2010 reply

If you threw Tiger on the course with some oldschool hickory stick blades, there’s no saying what would happen.

he would still be good. a good, sound golf swing is blind to generations. sure, he’d have to club up from what he hits now, but he’d still be great.

Dawg Nuts - March 17, 2010 reply

Yes indeed.

Browns town - March 17, 2010 reply

He would do fine. I just threw that out there. But it is a different game when you play with clubs you aren’t accustomed to (like me shooting a 86 with rented clubs last year).

When Tiger wins as many majors as Jack Nicklaus, then we can talk.

woodsmeister - March 16, 2010 reply

Yes sir.

Not only did Jack win 18 majors, but he finished second in 19 other majors.

That is domination.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;ylt=Ap70KRgCVkA6dcNCjuIZ7BDubYF?slug=nfp-could_holmgren_draft_clausen_at_no_7_html-2010316&prov=nfp&type=lgns

Agree, until he gets #18 and then #19 to be all time leader, he can’t be considered the best.

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say that Tiger continues on the pace that he’s at. He’s 34 now. Nicklaus stopped performing well in majors at around 42-43 (besides his heroic comeback in ‘86), this means that Tiger should have at least 8 or 9 years left of great golf in him. As a pro, he’s played in 49 majors, winning 14 of them, for an average of 28%. Assuming he plays in all the majors for the next 8 or 9 years, that trend has him winning 8 or 9 more.

Who knows, his golf game could go to crap just like David Duval’s, but if he follows in the footsteps of Nicklaus, he will be a great golfer until he’s in his early 40s. At which time, I expect he’ll have at least 20 major championships in his trophy case.

Sigh. Wouldn’t it be nice if the Browns even competed for a spot in the playoffs 28% of the time?

Browns town - March 16, 2010 reply

Please lord NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!

I don’t really think this is something that we need to worry too much about. Holmgren’s not the kind of guy who is going to drop all of our eggs into a high 1st round QB pick.

We might do some dealing to try and grab a QB in the 2nd or MAYBE 3rd…

johnnyphoenix - March 16, 2010 reply

He might.

If we go all in, then it better be for Bradford! We should have learned our lesson with the whole “Claussen is from an NFL style offense” statement. I realize that the two QB’s can be completely different, but I’d rather not try that theory out.

Our first two or three picks should be defense.

Simmsinns - March 16, 2010 reply

No.

BPA.

Gotta fill holes in secondary. Luckily berry will be BPA and if one of the fringe first round corners gets to #38 thats good value too.

I’d rather see BDPA (best defensive player available) than BPA to be honest.

I also really don’t want us to take any QB at 7 overall.

Simmsinns - March 16, 2010 reply

We aren’t in the position, nor do we have the luxury to be choosy.

I am all about BPA this year.

We will need a CB, at least one S, an OLB, a WR, maybe a TE and definitely a QB, all at some point before we can think about competing in the playoffs.

We are not thinking about competing in the playoffs this year.

Tye Hill, anyone? He’s available.

Take a flier, why not?

he is worth a flier.

Here is what I quickly found out about him:

Positives: Great speed and good hips. Can cover fairly well. Can be had very cheaply.

Negatives: 5-10 and doesn’t play taller. not great awareness and makes some bad reads. a liability against the run. maybe injury prone.

To me he looks like a faster version of BMac…

To me he looks like a faster version of BMac…

If this is true, pass. Big time.

yes…I believe he might be worth taking a flier on. he showed great instincts in college but got a little rattled…

I believe it is true. Probably a little less averse to contact, because no one is as averse to contact as Bmac.

yep…but he might be able to be gotten for a small league average type of contract. I dunno. I would not overpay a guy like him.

bross09 - March 18, 2010 reply

Ew, ew, ew. I hope Holmgren knows what he’s doing. Smells like Trent Dilfer or Jeff Garcia all over again.

BuenosAires_Dawg - March 16, 2010 reply

This is a recent article I read today, or rather skimmed through, interesting facts about the article: He listed 22 FA pickups in a top 20 format, of said 22 players, 5 are ex Browns players picked up by other teams, only 1 of those fell below the top ten, of the bottom 5, 4 were actually Browns’ pickups, this kind of plays into the theary posed recently about the media loving Browns players once they leave Cleveland, also Jason Cole is an idiot (imo).

*theory

This bastard hit every single post, some more than once.

I love the FAQ (in bad Engrish, of course….I for one, feel better)

.Is this a legit website?
Yes.We are selling the items displayed on our website. We have sent many packages to different countries.This is James,a real Person,working for you now,not machine.Thank you.

13.How wohld i know that is safe and that i will receive my product?
You made me remind of To be,or not to be,it is a question. Don??t worry,we have been dealing in these business for many years,we never cheated anyone.After we send the package,we will give you the Tracking No. and it can be checked on line.Then you will see where your package will be.

johnnyphoenix - March 17, 2010 reply

To be or not to be? What the Derek Anderson is that supposed to mean in that context?

skipkirk - March 17, 2010 reply

Derek Anderson = not to be

johnnyphoenix - March 17, 2010 reply

Derek Anderson = whatever expletive is most convenient, I can think of at least three four letter words that fit skip’s comment.

What the DA?

skipkirk - March 17, 2010 reply

See how well it works?

go DA yourself.

Dawg Nuts - March 18, 2010 reply

What the DA did I ever do to you? (Rec btw)

North Coast Flea - March 18, 2010 reply

Colt McCoy

If he is there in round 2, I would love this pick up, he will have at least a year to learn, good arm, mobile, a little soft, needs to put on some pounds but the man is a winner. Id love to see him in a Browns uniform. Having an additonal 3rd rounder now allows us to do this in my opinion.

Sudsy - March 17, 2010 reply

friendly warning: the “he’s a winner” argument is going to get you blasted here. the other stuff: fair enough, don’t disagree.

Dawg Nuts - March 18, 2010 reply

I’ve placed a one-day provision thing on the site until the tech team can crack down on the spambots. I’ll try to manually approve real-looking accounts before the full 24 hours, but if not, a one-time 24-hour wait isn’t too bad if you’re legitimately interested in posting regularly.

Chris Pokorny - March 17, 2010 reply

Thanks, Chris.

yes, thank you Chris

agree, thanks!

So I have to wait one day to make my SenecaWallaceisBeast name?

Bernie19Kosar - March 17, 2010 reply

REC