Dawgs By Nature

not every win needs to be a blowout

In NFL, blowouts are rare. Making key plays and some luck are what usually separates winners from losers. We were lucky that the db dropped an easy Delhomme interception. Good defensive play at the end gave us a win.

Sweet win. O’s failures are much more attributed to Miami’s D than our own problems. Kudos Miami.

I disagree. Miami did a good job of gameplanning. But it took Daboll 3 quarters to figure out how to exploit their overagression at the line of scrimmage. I’m getting very tired of watching 8-9 guys in the box against us.

Not to mention, I think we make ourselves wayy to easy to gameplan against when we go with Delhomme and a weak set of receivers. Dial up the pressure and watch the big mistakes mount. I realize he didn’t turn the ball over today, but it felt more like an aberration than an improvement.

So, who would you have paired with those weak receivers? Are you saying that we should have played Wallace and lived by the check down with little chance for a pass down the field? Yes, Wallace could have scramble to buy more time – if he is healthy enough – but I don’t see him making any more of the opportunities than Delhomme did.

There really was only 1 “downfield throw” to a receiver that I can remember.

Yes, I know its hard to make a change after 2 wins, but I feel like Delhomme has done all he can for the Browns franchise on the field. I’d like to see Wallace play until/if McCoy is back this season, giving him some chemistry with his receivers heading into next year as our backup for potentially years to come.

Not only does Wallace limit mistakes better than Delhomme, just his ability to scramble will limit the pressure the opponent can bring.

People keep talking about Wallace’s ability to scramble like it’s some big threat but he rarely did anything running this season when he started. He’s not really a threat to run very much and he’s not as good as Delhomme at throwing down the field. He does certainly make less mistakes than Delhomme but I’m fine with staying with Delhomme until McCoy comes back.

I think its enough to neutralize the blitz. you could tell today that Miami’s game plan was to pin their ears back and come after Delhomme, and wait for the big mistake, and it almost worked.

The fact that our defense is so amazing hides just how bad our 1 dimensional offense is.

Their plan was to have St. Clair play at RT for us. It worked.

1 less costly mistake…

Delhomme going downfield>>>Wallace’s scrambling ability

MoMass had 4 catches for 80+yds….just sayin

Amazing what can happen when we throw the ball further than four yards downfield.

The gameplan was fine, we just didn’t have the ability to outdo the Miami D.

I still would like to see Evan Moore Moore often.

Moore went out with a hip injury.

Old news, of course, but the right side of our o-line is a complete disaster.

No. The pocket held pretty well during most of the game.

I don’t know, there were still too many miscommunications for my taste, and St. Claire got blown by a couple times.

, he was facing cameron wake. considering a guy like wake only had 1.5 sacks and 3 hits on delhomme, he had a better game than in previous weeks (where you saw him those stats or better from much lesser players). He protected better, but thats not saying much. He still definitely got blown by quite a few times.

St. Clair blows. If he ever actually blocks someone, I am going to assume that St. Clair was probably supposed to block someone else.

I don’t care if that sounds mean, the dude is a bum.

I really do NOT like St. Clair.

The fact that his name is ‘St. Clair’ makes it even worse. I always say it with a look like I walked into a bathroom where someone just took a dump.

Completely disagree.

discoinferno083 - December 6, 2010 reply

completely disagree with you.

if this can be said of a majority of people by a lineman, than SOMETHING is up and he’s not doing his job.

Umm, it sounds more like you agree with Rufio here.

No. The pocket held pretty well during most of the game.

,

is what he disagrees with, and I’m with Rufio on this one. For an immobile QB JD was able to evade a whole bunch of pressure yesterday.

Also, I have a question.

Seriously, why are pick 6’s so common with Delhomme? It’s mind boggling.

Because he is not calm under pressure and lacks confidence

I would think he is too calm if anything. Those pick 6s don’t look panicked to me, they look nonchalant.

The one pass in the 4th that could have been intercepted had pick 6 written all over it. Thank go he dropped it.

This. I feel that Delhomme is just going to keep throwing these, and it makes me tear my hair out.

His abilities aren’t what he thought they were?

Thank you Denny Green.

I think Watson could have caught that guy. He was already running him down before he caught (dropped) the ball.

I just enjoy seeing the Browns pull it together in the 4th for wins. For all the heat we give the coaching staff, just look at how many other teams have quit on coaches this year (hell, look at the Titans earlier today).

The guys are playing hard despite an all but guaranteed losing season and I attribute that to good coaching.

Michael Jay - December 5, 2010 reply

Even worse.

To be fair, weren’t they down big in both games pretty early? They needed to throw more to get back in the game. But, you’re right, Johnson should have more carries than that (and I know since he’s on one of my fantasy teams).

The Titans will continue to lose until they can replace Vince Young.
Collins is washed up.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

Sadly no, I somehow made myself watch both games. Against Houston it was a two possession game into the third quarter. Today they were within two scores almost the entire game as well.

I just can’t understand what the Titans are doing sometimes.

Probably following the yardage too much. Everyone in the world knows CJ2k is their best player and most dangerous player, and they will try to take him away first.

Today it looked like they fell behind early and felt pressure to throw. Against Houston, they had a 2.5 yard passing premium, which is right about where NFL teams like to be, so they were pretty balanced. That premium was the difference between 4.5 YPA and 2.0 YPC though, so they were just flat-out-awful on offense.

the titans are in a tough spot b/c their qb situation is a train wreck. there’s not a qb on that roster who makes a defense worry about committing everyone to stop cj.

The Browns are in the same situation, but find a way to get Hillis the ball.

Came across an interesting stat today: Yesterday’s loss makes for the fifth time in seven years that the Titans have lost five in a row.

i was in nashville recently, and in reading about the young/fisher flap i was interested to see just how slightly-above-average fisher’s tenure in houston/nashville has really been. i always considered that he was an elite coach (and maybe he is), but he hasn’t exactly destroyed it in his time w/ the organization.

Yeah, I heard people discussing his record on the radio a few weeks ago and I was surprised that it wasn’t better. I always thought he was an elite coach as well, but he doesn’t have that many winning seasons or playoff appearances. Maybe he is overrated as a coach.

I think its a problem with a Front Office that is Average at best.

They had 14 picks in 2004, but they only had only 4 turned out to even be average NFL players; Travis LaBoy (average situational pass rusher who has never gotten more than 6.5 sacks), Antwan Odom (had one good healthy season with the team…but can’t stay healthy in Cincy), Randy Starks (average 3-4 DE at best), and Jacob Bell (very solid Guard, but no longer with team). None of their guys who made any sort of impact in the NFL are still with the team, and none of these guys have been since 2008.

2003: Lets just put it this way, RB Chris Brown was their best pick in that draft and he had 3,000 career rushing yards (and only a couple seasons as an impact runner) but hasn’t played any professional football since 2009.

Between 2003 and 2005, they only have 6 players that are considered starter worthy on that team…that is not good drafting at all. that 6 is including vince young (who has started this year significantly so is considered “starter worthy” but he isn’t all that great).

Its very hard to be good when you are only acquiring about 1-2 starters a year through the draft (this is not guys coming in right away and starting but also guys who are eventual starters). I think the Front Office is crap and he is having to deal with a team who in all honestly, isn’t amazingly talented outside of Chris Johnson.

don’t forget that fisher won a power struggle w/ floyd reese a few years back in which fisher essentially took control of football operations.

DontCallMeJoey - December 7, 2010 reply

and since then, the talent has been much better.

Jeff Fisher acquired Jason Jones, Michael Griffin, CJ2K, Javon Ringer, Jason McCourty, Kenny Britt, all solid players.

While its definitely still very early to judge Jeff Fisher’s drafts (because even his first was just a few years ago and is just in the time realm where drafts can be more objectively judged), his drafts between 2007-2009 already have bigger returns than Reese’s drafts between 2003-2006 (I actually meant to say "Between 2003 and 2006 because they got 3 “starters” in 2006 including VY).

While Fisher may not be anything special when it comes to the ability to draft a team, Floyd Reese during those 4 years was IMO one of the 5-10 worst NFL GMs (obviously Millen, Russ Brandon, Al Davis, and whoever was in Minny)

ha! Good game this week by the way. If Sanchez would have remotely showed up to play it would have been a damn close game.

Kimble_79 - December 7, 2010 reply

“Gosh, nothing beats winning in the NFL.” – Jake Delhomme

Peyton just threw a pick 6.

Wow.

That’s 9 picks in 3 games, 1/3 of which were returned for TDs.

its like 2 picks now. I am lucking out right now in fantasy that he isn’t doing much better than my QB

DisplacedBuckeye - December 5, 2010 reply

Wow, Peyton Manning has become Jack Delhomme. 2 INTs already, including a Pick Six.

Haha, Jake. Jake Delhomme.

DisplacedBuckeye - December 5, 2010 reply

That’s 6 INTs and 3 pick 6’s in two weeks.

0.o

Cut him!

HE SUCKS GAWD.

he is f@#$ing my life in the ODBNFL.

Dawg Nuts - December 5, 2010 reply

Love the Bucs’ stadium when they score.

he didn’t look like a pro-bowler, sure, but I’m surprised so many people are still crapping on Delhomme. he played a decent game, didn’t turn the ball over, and outside of one play didn’t even do anything scary.

Indeed.

he could have lost us the game on that play. He had one good drive. I want his ass on the bench ASAP.

please, Colt McCoy had his ass bailed out more than once himself.

More correctly, the offense had one good drive. we had no running game today, and we lack talent at WR.

Delhomme was told not to pass downfield because no one trusts him. We were ready to butcher him last week. He has a half decent game and we’re growing soft on him. Let’s be consistent. He’s a liability and he will put us in a position to lose more often than not. Bench his ass.

Who told him not to pass sown field because they didn’t trust him and how did you hear that utterance?

It’s hypothetical of course. Would you trust Jake Delhomme to lead your team?

I just did.

Apparently Mangini does.

And again, who are you going to put in instead? A broken Wallace? A broken McCoy? John St. Claire?

JOE HADEN!

that boy is gonna be a star in this league. He was beat pretty bad on that one INT though. Henne just threw up a bad ball. Otherwise, man he looked good right.

Cornerbacks lose a step sometimes, it’s all about how you close out. Perfect throws will beat you. We weren’t facing Brady or Manning.

I agree, but still he was beat on that play. Most NFL QB’s will hit that pass more often than not. Either way though, he played some great ball today! I think between him and Ward our secondary is going to improve drastically to finish out the season and especially next year.

Right, you don’t need to be Manning or Brady to make that throw. Haden was beat pretty badly on that one, and we got lucky that Henne massively underthrew it. But he stil had a great game overall.

man the steelers are bad liars!!! bens nose was definitely broke!!! it had a little west-side slide going on there!!

I guess it’s kinda hard to tell with a face like that I guess. It’s not like he is really gonna get any ’uglier, ’ anyways.

THIS!

LondonBrown - December 6, 2010 reply

meaning

I think between him and Ward our secondary is going to improve drastically to finish out the season and especially next year.

this

LondonBrown - December 6, 2010 reply

He did have a misstep. That’s my one knock on Haden right now, he isn’t as fluid as you’d like.

BUT I am pretty sure underneath routes were his responsibility there and he had a safety coming over the top. If Haden doesn’t catch that ball I think the S is close enough to blast the WR.

Haden said after the game that he was being aggressive and bit on a double move.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/12/rookie_cornerback_joe_haden_sh.html

“It’s the same thing that happened in Jacksonville,” said Haden. “He ran a double move and I’m very aggressive, so I jumped the first one, but with my speed I caught up to him. He started looking back and his eyes got big like he was about to catch the ball so I just looked back and caught it.”

Haha, love hearing that he uses the WRs dilating pupils to his advantage.

Sounds about right. Jumping those underneath routes.

The catching up and then looking when the WR looks is classic “in-phase/out-of-phase” coaching of the CBs.

Yes, but McCoy seems to fire up the guys around him and make key plays when needed. Something Jake panics during and throws pick 6’s. That is the difference, the offense seems more motivated with Wallace/McCoy.

you’ll get no argument from me on McCoy, I would much rather have him playing than Delhomme. I think between JD and seneca it’s a wash. My main point above was that every QB makes mistakes and sometimes they get lucky. lets not pretend McCoy hasn’t benefitted from a couple stone-handed defenders.

Making fun of Peyton and Henne for pulling vintage Delhomme isn’t crapping on Delhomme’s acceptable performance today.

I wasn’t referring to that, I was skimming through the game thread and people were acting like Delhomme had already thrown the game away.

Oh, I see. I missed todays game thread and I usually don’t skim them after the fact, finding it mostly nonsensical shouting in text form.

I didn’t see a ton of that and I was in for most of the thread. At least I can say for myself, I am not pleased per se by his performance, but at least satisfied he didn’t make the big mistake and that we won.

I don’t know, he didn’t have another pick six only by the grace of the Football Lords. He hit a Dolphin right in the chest at the end of the game. He always seems to rush and force the ball if he receives any pressure whatsoever.

you just described every game by every QB ever.

I disagree, McCoy seems to have a better “clock,” and seems to be better at just getting rid of the ball if he gets in trouble.

No he doesn’t.

This is absolutely true and is not just an illusion. Also Special Brownie is a douche bag

Because I said no he doesn’t? Nice.

I would imagine it’s more than just that statement.

Meh, he doesn’t need to say it. It’s just I don’t see how someone can make that statement on McCoy in 4 games and even then, I don’t see it in the first place.

McCoy just takes sacks.

Not true. He often ends up scrambling to the sideline for a pickup of a yard or two (or eight).
Not something you will ever see from Jake.

burntorangeandbrown - December 6, 2010 reply

in pretty much every single game, a QB has a terrible decision that leads to either a bad pick or a dropped pick.

yes.

Woah woah woah. The Dolphin jumped the route. It wasn’t a B-line to him.

Delhomme had a good day today, I am not trying to crap on him. I just feel nervous whenever he drops back because of his pick sixes – that’s my main point.

He does need to stop throwing questionable balls into the flats.

I also hate our offense for running so many routes out there and never having a constraint play.

I’m not familiar with the term constraint play. Can you elaborate?

I think he means a play that would make a defense pay for overplaying the pass to the flats.

Apologies if I am mistaken.

Thanks for the reply. I will read johnny’s article and let you know :)

On point Bernie. Thanks again.

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/01/constraint-theory-of-offense.html

Thanks johnny

Delhomme panicked and threw the ball, nearly throwing another pick 6. Another bad decision when he’s about to get sacked. He’s got to realize that sometimes its better to take the sack.

Congrats to Delhomme. He’s won the last 2 starts.

I was just stating it wasn’t a straight throw to the DB, the DB had to do a little work.

Like reading Delhomme’s eyes. I haven’t watched the replay but it looked like he came off Mass right at the snap and ran at Watson. Also considering we were throwing to Watson almost every other play, it’s not surprising, that Delhomme almost threw an int.

Villeslgr - December 5, 2010 reply

All I’m saying is that every QB makes those one or two bad decisions every game. Delhomme played about as well as you can expect a guy to play. His previous outings are fair game, but today he played well, and we shouldn’t be using that one play to say he sucked.

It’s not the fact that Jake isn’t perfect that frustrates me. It’s the fact that he made a critical mistake late in the game that would have cost as a W had the defender not held on for a fairly easy INT that frustrates me.

what I’m saying is that it happens to every QB.

Alas, Jake seems to have it happen more often than not.

The real problem is we aren’t getting a whole lot of reward to go with that risk. His completion % was great today, but we didn’t get the YPA and especially the scores to go with a scary turnover.

If he had thrown 3 TDs and we were up by 14 we could have afforded to play a less risky style AND a pick-6 wouldn’t be so costly to us.

Well said.

The reward was no turnovers in a low scoring game. I think it was intentional because the staff doesn’t fully trust Jake.

Ah, but only because the opposition dropped that easy pick….

Western Reserve - December 6, 2010 reply

Yeah, but at the same time, the strategy is so conservative and the three yard routes are so inept, we damn near lose these type of games anyway. We didn’t yesterday. But, we also only won by the narrowest of margins. Also, the reward, yes, is no turnovers — yesterday at least, and barely. I don’t know if things need to be, or even can be, opened up a bit, but, as has been the case all year, it’s a pretty precarious position to be in where a single mistake costs us the game, with virtually no room for error.

I guess my point is that we can’t pretend we have an offense that we don’t. I don’t believe with Jake at QB we have much of an offense at all, so I would much rather play not to lose and hope he strings together a drive or two.

we were also playing a very good team. this strategy does have a very small margin for error, but it is even smaller when the D is very good and gameplanns specifically for that strategy.

Delhomme played about as well as you can expect a guy to play.

Are you kidding? He had an OK game, but “as well as you can expect a guy to play”? Come on now.

seriously. He completed 70% of his passes, with a decent YPA. he had a 97.3 QB rating. He didn’t turn the ball over. anything more than that and you have a legitimate franchise QB, which are few and far between in the NFL.

except for one awesome drive, his ypa was just flat out awful. I would say he had one great drive, but for the rest of the game was an average game manager. Then again, this is all I would ever reasonably expect out of Delhomme even if I have confidence in him (one great drive but a game manager for the rest)

but you can’t take out that drive, it still counts.

I am not saying it doesn’t. I am just pointing out that he DID lead that drive and that is what separates him and wallace (I defined wallace as a true “game manager”)

I have said this to you several times and I don’t know if you are just trying to upset me or if you really don’t get this:

YPA is a good statistic because it doesn’t penalize home-run hitters or ultra-consistent dink and dunkers. It doesn’t penalize players who are consistent throughout the game or blow up at the beginning or end of it.

Everything averages out.

I am not saying YPA is a bad statistic.

I have NEVER said YPA is a bad statistic.

I have only used YPA as a measurement of separating guys who can stretch the field from the dink-and-dunkers in a statistical sense.

It does all average out which I like about it, but it is not the best statistic to measure how a QB stretches the field, and that is why I have used YPC as a Supplamentary stat.

This also doesn’t seem 100% relevant to my comment. I am not criticizing YPA as a whole but pointing out that Jake Delhomme was not very good outside of one drive. He was throwing a lot of dumpoffs in the backfield to hillis that would only net a yard or two. THIS is what I was saying.

I have only used YPA as a measurement of separating guys who can stretch the field from the dink-and-dunkers in a statistical sense.

IT DOESN’T SEPARATE THEM AND I NEVER SAID YOU SAID YPA WAS A BAD STAT.

The reason it is good is what was important; it doesn’t matter if you are “not very good outside of one drive” because the entire game will be reflected in the stat.

If you throw 10 passes for 0 yards (terrible) for the first part of the game, then you complete 2 for 100 yards and a TD (phenomenal) in your last drive, you have 8.3 YPA. You did a good job.

If you complete 8/10 passes for 100 yards, then you fall on your face in the last drive, going 0/2 for 0 yards, you still get 8.3 YPA, you did a good job.

If you throw 30 passes for 0 yards throughout the game and then 2 for 100 and the TD on the last drive, you get 3.1 YPA. You did terrible.

If you complete 29/30 passes for 100 yards and then fall on your face in the last drive, going 0/2 for 0 yards, you get 3.1 YPA. You did terrible.

It doesn’t matter to YPA when or where the yards come, as long as you move the ball. It doesn’t matter to YPA if he’s throwing dumpoffs for 1-2 yards (it would to completion %) for most of the game. If all he ever does is throw dumpoffs for 1-2 YPcatch, it will be reflected in YPA.

YPA is a good statistic because it doesn’t penalize home-run hitters or ultra-consistent dink and dunkers.

If you weren’t implying that I said YPA was bad, what was the point of emphasizing that it is good? I was not negative about the stat as a whole which is the only situation where emphasizing strengths of it seems necessary.

"not very good outside of one drive" because the entire game will be reflected in the stat.

I agree. I am not at all trying to take away from the great drive delhomme had or take away from YPA. I am merely trying to strengthen my point about my personal opinion about Jake when he is on; that he is a solid game manager who can make a few very good plays in a game (and its these plays, like that drive today that separate him from Wallace when he is on)

If it is “bad”, we shouldn’t be talking about it. I was affirming that it is indeed a worthy stat and then talking about WHY, exactly, it is worthy. “YPA is good BECAUSE….” The “…” was the important part.

I am merely trying to strengthen my point about my personal opinion about Jake when he is on

You failed in doing this because you decided to be selective about an already small sample size in your evaluation of Delhomme. YPA is good because it doesn’t discriminate against players who “get hot” or make fewer, bigger plays. You used it to do exactly that.

If Delhomme is “game-manager with the ability to get hot and lead an awesome drive” and Seneca Wallace is “game manager”, Delhomme’s YPA over the course of the season will be significantly higher because he will have led those big drives and Wallace will have not.

If it is "bad", we shouldn’t be talking about it

there was no true dialogue about the statistic until you affirmed its worthiness however.

it doesn’t discriminate against players who "get hot" or make fewer, bigger plays. You used it to do exactly that.

I however did not “discriminate against players”, namely Jake Delhomme, using YPA. I was merely looking at his YPA and dissecting the type of player he was today. no more, no less. If you think it was more than pointing out the type of player he was, you read way too much into something extremely mild.

If Delhomme is "game-manager with the ability to get hot and lead an awesome drive" and Seneca Wallace is "game manager", Delhomme’s YPA over the course of the season will be significantly higher because he will have led those big drives and Wallace will have not.

Oh, of course. If Delhomme can play like he did today, or even slightly worse but just limit the mistakes (something wallace has been able to do fairly well his whole career) I take Delhomme over Wallace. No hesitation.

If you think that performance was as well as a you can expect from a QB than you have very, very, very low expectations.

very low expectations is what has kept us at the bottom of the league for so long! glad we have a front office now who recognizes talent and finally isnt pussyfooting around, to give this city the team that it has deserved for so long!

Yes. It’s about as well as you can expect Delhomme to play; it’s not as well as you can expect an average NFL starting QB to play.

THIS. I am mildly pleased at the performance because I can’t expect much better for Delhomme. He isn’t Aaron Rodgers

I agree. What we saw today out of Delhomme was his ceiling now.

Don’t disagree, but that is clearly NOT what NTN said.

But I think it would be fair to say that it was as well as you can expect from a QB with our receiving corps.

JustBob - December 6, 2010 reply

No TOs, 90+QB rating, 70% comp, I’d say he did pretty damn good.

as much pressure he and the offense was?? i would say it was more than adequate!

He was average, maybe even good. His completion % is high because he threw so many short passes. His YPA was low. He almost threw a pick 6, but he didn’t. So it was a good game for Delhomme.

But that wasn’t the comment that he’s responding to. The comment was that Delhomme played as well as you can expect a QB to play, and the point is that if that performance was as well as you can expect a QB to play then your expectations are very, very low. That really can’t be argued.

didnt mean to make it sound like an argument, was just agreeing with him, sorry.

you left out a key word,

about as well

, not that he played as well as you can expect from a QB. I think he played 10x better than what we can expect from Delhomme and he’s just shitting on him for the sake of shitting on him.

whos shitting on delhomme?? i wasnt.

TDSH

ahh, ok i think he was quite good today, not great but good

his YPA was 6.4, that’s pretty decent.

Right now, 27 of the 33 QB’s who have enough attempts to qualify have a YPA greater than 6.4 I don’t consider that pretty decent. That’s in Derek Anderson/Alex Smith territory.

I also was including the fact that we had no running game all day and the receivers are less than stellar. You can’t really expect a QB to put up better numbers when the passing game to backs and TEs was all we had.

We had no running game because the D had no respect for the pass. Miami’s D is solid, but it is not the best D we have played, and Hillis played better because the pass was being respected.

Don’t forget the revolving door at RT.

To me, this and our offensive design are our biggest problems right now. Even bigger than lack of talent at WR, which I do consider a problem.

That’s how bad I think the right side and the offense are right now.

It’s painful to watch St. Clair get consistently beat. Knowing St. Clair can’t stop anyone cuts the margin of error for everyone else on the line. If Steinbach or JT has a bad day, the offensive line turns into the maginot line.

And I know the WRs aren’t world beaters but we’ve at least seen them get involved and be productive with Jake under center. I will leave it up to others smarter than me to debate whether that’s a result of Jake, offensive schemes or the defenses they are facing.

as far as that last part goes, probably all 3.

get involved and be productive with Jake under center

only as a relative matter. w/ jake under center the wr’s have been better (numbers wise) than they have been w/ wallace or mccoy … but they’re still woefully inadequate and at the bottom of the league in terms of overall wr production.

has lauvao played much? any thoughts on him?

Struggled in his one game with lots of action.

couldn’t agree more. Right side O line needs work. About the offensive design: Where do we go next year? Are daboll and mangini just constantly trying to protect the team from terrible QB play or do they just know too little about offense to be capable of implementing a real NFL-quality system? Does holmgren need to step in and find us another OC?

It doesn’t really happen to every QB every week. Once in awhile, yes you’ll see good QBs throw balls directly to a defender (or get read so easily that it seems that way), but not every game they play in.

HenryDawg - December 6, 2010 reply

wasn’t an amazing throw, but yeah, it was a great play by the defender to get there.

I guess…but I’d like, even as a backup, my QB’s potential ‘ceiling’ to be more than “…at least he didn’t…”

He did have a decent game, but if I have any of our other QB’s 100% healthy he goes back to the bench.

Do you guys think that Daboll is unwilling to go to the air even when they are stacking the box because he doesn’t trust Delhomme to make good decisions? I mean Hillis is a beast, but he can’t bust through when they run straight up the middle against eight guys.

my guess is he was trying to get the ball to his best play-maker, Hillis, and since the running game wasn’t working he tried to do it through the air.

discoinferno083 - December 5, 2010 reply

bout time.

i prefer this strategy, to be honest.

it’s not brilliant, but it’s smash-mouth football, and it’s effective.

2.4 YPC is hardly effective. Neither is ramming your head into a brick wall.

discoinferno083 - December 6, 2010 reply

keeping the defense honest and opening up for the pass.

A- most teams can’t stop Hillis without fully committing to stop the run
B- Delhomme does not need to throw 53 times a game.

this is a solid way to play. (granted, you don’t want to beat it to death, getting three and outs… but i’m glad we used some balance.)

The game plan to me was pretty clearly to avoid turnovers. I think the staff thought the defense could shut the Miami O down which largely was true.

Yes. It seem like they said to him before the game “Don’t you dare try to air it our or squeeze a pass between defenders, or we’ll cut your nuts off”. Luckily he listened and the Browns still won. In the long run, I don’t see how you have winning team with this strategy and such weak WRs.

kingcrimson2 - December 5, 2010 reply

not necessarily a direct response to you, but i figured i’d put this here … delhomme’s pass to stuckey in the back of the end zone (that stuckey couldn’t hold onto) was all world. that was a big time ball.

Yes, that was a good throw. He put it where only Stuckey could catch it.

Well he was trying to feed peyton hillis. Even good run defenses can wear down late in the game and it only takes a small mistake to let a good running back break a big one.

Also, we did throw the ball 35 times today, so its not like daboll wasn’t dialing up the pass.

jaws. - December 5, 2010 reply

CBS just played Mangini’s post game locker room speech.

DAMNIT I MISSED IT! How was it?

what did he say?

I was hoping someone else caught it. My mom’s here and she was talking over the tv. The locker room looked like a happy place anyway.

Damn mothers.

*Disclaimer. It’s a joke.

i know. what have they ever done for us?

That’s when you tell your mother to SHUT THE HELL UP, BIZZATCH!!

I tried to shush her, but that didn’t go over too well.

smokescreen

I missed it, any good?

It wasn’t bad. He was talking about that being 2 in a row and that now we need to string more wins together. He also had Joe Haden say something as he was walking out of the room, but I couldn’t understand what it was but the locker room erupted after it.

Guess who cut Garcon after last week. This guy, ugh. —→

DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!

Raiders up BIG on San Diego.

Guess who started San Diego’s D… —→

Wow. You really made some errors.

Thank God the ones I did pick are killing it for the most part.

It pisses me off that we gave Cribbs the big contract. I know we were in a bad position at the time becuase he was our best playmaker and fan favorite. But I wish we could restructure the deal in our favor now based on his play just like he did to us.

You do know his whole contract is incentive based right?

whats the guaranteed money?

Like 2 Mil maybe? Not quite sure on that.

If you listen to the guy whining in the game thread it’s like 7 mil but I highly doubt that.

The guaranteed money is 7 million dollars. He can earn an extra 11 or so million with incentives.

Source.

I stand corrected.

Guaranteed cash isn’t a huge deal unless the player is going to have one of those massive untradeable contracts or you think the likelihood that we would cut Cribbs at some point during the contract is high.

Yup, It made me laugh when the guy in the game thread said we were overpaying him and that he was going to get as much money as Delhomme, who is making 7 mil this year and 11 mil next year.

7 mil over 3 seasons? That’s not that bad.

Flag.

1. Like SB keeps saying it’s incentive based.
2. He’s playing hurt, and a hurt Cribbs is still our best returner (besides maybe Haden, but the last thing I want to see is him getting hurt returning a kick).

Yeah. If he was still any damned good then it wouldn’t have mattered that teams were kicking away from him or that the return teams weren’t setting up blocks until he was injured. And it is just totally lame that he is using the excuse of four dislocated toes to explain his lack of effectiveness.

No argument from me on the injuries. But nicks and bruises are part of football. all the more reason why special teams players are a dime a dozen.

four dislocated toes is more than a nick or bruise.

lol seriously!

yes…because 4 dislocated toes mean a guy should have all of his explosiveness…

Pfft. Who needs a whole foot to run?

tom dempsey didnt need one to kick a 63 yarder!!! lol

Sarcasm? I hope.

As do I, otherwise I’ll have to drive off a bridge. Some of those comments were just starting to get to me.

JustBob - December 6, 2010 reply

His contract is worth a total of 20 million max through 2012 but his base salary is very managable. His salary for this year is just under 700k and he is still under 1 mil in base salary for the last year, 2012.

So yeah, its all incentives based and a lot will probably be based on Return TDs, pro bowl appearances, etc…

So if we pay him big bucks, he is earning it.

Base and incentives don’t tell the whole story for NFL contracts. Signing bonuses play a huge role in both the total dollar amount paid and the cap-friendliness of the deal.

that is very true. I believe much of his other $ though is tied up in incentives. there are signing bonuses, but I read that with the bonuses, Cribbs would cost us a cap hit of around 2 million a year.

Also, isn’t “guaranteed money” just base salary and bonuses? If so, his cap hit per year over the next 3 years is an average of 2.5 million. for a guy who can do what he does when healthy, that is still very reasonable. that is still .5 million less than the base contract of Eric Barton, so he is definitely not high on the list of problems when the cap comes back.

No. Guaranteed money is money that the player will receive and the team will have to account for on the salary cap no matter what (regardless of the player being cut, active, playing a % of snaps, etc.). Guaranteed money includes signing bonuses but might not include other bonuses (such as roster bonuses or other bonuses that are earned by reaching incentives).

Cribbs’ salary is reasonable.

Ah. I forgot about roster bonuses and incentive bonuses (but the latter only become an issue when he reaches those incentives)

We have one of the best starting field positions in the league. This is because of Cribbs, whether he actually returns the ball or not. BTW, you know he has 4 dislocated toes right?

It pisses me off that we gave Cribbs the big contract.

Fans like this give Cleveland fans a bad name.

Big Daddy Hickman - December 5, 2010 reply

I love Cribbs and I love how he represents Cleveland. He was at the Cavs/Heat game the other night. Would’ve been nice to see McCoy or Hillis there since they seem to be on their way to become the face of Cleveland sports, unless they were and I didn’t see.

JC seemed to just pick a running lane when he returned kicks in the last few years and blow through it. That really always seemed to lead to some big returns. Now, he just doesn’t seem like the go-for-it-all returner anymore. Maybe he’s a bit gun shy in order to avoid bigger hits, but it does seem like he’s changed his ways a bit. I don’t see that aggression with him on kick offs now

Can I just say that Joe Haden is a beast.

Yes, you can. And I agree.

Pro bowl material? Or at least DROY material?

Yes you can. And you can keep saying it as many times as you want.

Joe Haden is a beast.

Joe Haden is a beast.

This comment doesn’t have nearly enough recs

This isn’t a comment on the rest of the defense or a heat of the moment thing.

Joe Haden is the Browns best defensive player. I have tons of love for Rubin, Ward and Rogers, but Haden is out of this world good. And he keeps getting better every week.

Yes, no doubt. And how about Shaun Rogers today? Abe Elam with another big play, too.

Elam has come to play recently.

Rogers is the only guy on our team that can finish sacks.

He can still get better, too. Like I said elsewhere, I’d like to see him do this to Brandon Marshall-type WRs, not just the Bess’ and Hartlines of the NFL.

I think as long as mangini is around, the sky is the limit for Joe Haden. he seems to have solid physical skills. I have to admit i liked hearing haden marvel at Eric Wright’s technical ability, because it gives me hope that Haden will work hard to become technically sound too.

Wright is very fluid, something Haden probably needs to work on.

rufio - December 9, 2010 reply

Not that I think for one second that we have a chance in hell at the playoffs, but why is Pittsburgh beating Baltimore better for that? Don’t they have the same records, division records, and conference records?

cheech99 - December 5, 2010 reply

I think Chris mentioned earlier that Balt has a tougher schedule down the stretch and would be the team more likely to fade.

This is correct.

Pittsburgh has Cincinatti, NYJ, Carolina, and us left.
Baltimore has Houston, New Orleans, us, and Cincinatti left.

Pittsburgh has a MUCH easier schedule going forward. They rank 24th in opposing SoS going forward whereas Ravens are more middle of the pack. the ravens would still have to play the Saints and a tough Texans team. the Steelers do get the Jets, but they also get the Bengals and Panthers (and get the jets at home).

The browns in fact have the 25th easiest SoS and the easiest in the division so thats good news.

The Texans will be an easy win for Baltimore.

You realize that we should have been an easy win for both NE and NO right? Any given Sunday.

Just like Baltimore, we have quite the defense. No way a team with as bad a defense as Houston has can beat Baltimore.

If Houston can just score ungodly amounts of points, I don’t think baltimore can keep up.

Huge “if”.

We also need to re-sign Elam. Guy has turned his game around and has been terrific.

KSU student agrees.

OSU graduate concurs.

Adrock2099 - December 5, 2010 reply

First of all Joe Haden is so good that I promise not to mention Earl Thomas any more. Second, that Miami defense is one hard hitting, physical defense. Finally, despite the almost pick 6, we won because Jake was best Qb on the field.

realmccoy - December 5, 2010 via mobile reply

we won because Jake was best Qb on the field.

Not really saying much, but I agree.

Love the Haden/Thomas comment, but now that we know Haden is awesome, I don’t care how much you talk about Earl.

Finally, despite the almost pick 6, we won because Jake was best Qb on the field.

Well, agreed, but it’s a little like saying my drive home was great except for the part where I missed getting hit broadside by a semi by six inches. Any road trip you walk away from is a good one?

I know, I’m slagging off on Jake a bit, but that throw just about killed me….

Haden is a shut down corner in the making

Haden is a shut down corner

He sure as hell was today. I wouldn’t start Steve Johnson next week if you have him.

Well, come on. Haden’s gotten lucky on a few of his plays. He is getting very close though.

Has anybody seen any discussion of possible Defensive Rookies of the Year? Both Joe Haden and T.J. Ward should both be in the running. I know T.J. has fallen off just a bit, but I believe he leads all defensive rookies in tackles by over twenty. If we keep up the great drafts we really will be contenders in a few years!

My bias says that the way Joe Haden is playing right now, he should get it. However, I think that Suh may get more votes.

Suh is probably the leader right now. He’s playing really well for the Lions.

who?

Not sure they’ll want to reward somebody if he keeps playing dirty.

if brian cushing could win the re-vote on last year’s DROY, then a couple of questionable hits won’t keep suh out of the winner’s circle.

Hadn’t considered that.

StuckInPa - December 6, 2010 reply

If he doesn’t get suspended. That forearm he threw today was filthy.

was he the one that blasted Cutler from behind today?

Yes.

… Not to mention the one that tried to rip off Jake Delhomme’s head in the pre-season. I’m still kinda pissed about that. Definitely should’ve been flagged.

shep615 - December 5, 2010 reply

Yup

It was flagged. He should’ve been ejected.

I didn’t see that.

I’m sure it will be all over sportscenter tonight. He drilled Cutler right in the back of the head from behind. Cutler dropped like a rag doll.

I thought the play was okay. He didn’t hit Cutler in the head.

Bernie19Kosar - December 7, 2010 reply

Sure looked like it to me. If it wasn’t the head then it was definitely the neck.

Kimble_79 - December 7, 2010 reply

Ward will get votes leading all rookies in tackles and having 2 picks, and a blocked kick. Haden will get votes for being tied in lead with INT’s. At this pace, my guess is both finish in top 5.

Hell of a draft, eh?

I have this secret hope that Carlton Mitchell is one of those raw WRs that bursts out in year 3 out of nowhere.

He seems to have the raw ability. I wouldn’t bet on it, but it is a possibility.

He definitely has the size and speed. If him and Lauvao do indeed turn out, that would be unreal.

He’s got size and legit 4.4 speed. Worth keeping around.

I hope so, but I’m afraid that Mitchell doesn’t have ‘natural’ good hands. For some reason it just seems like some guys have em (Larry Fitz) and some guys don’t (Ahem… Braylon)

It is quite rare that guys develop hands. I think it is worth the roster spot to give him a chance for another year or so.

rufio - December 9, 2010 reply

Imagine if McCoy really is our franchise QB too.

Haha I was already assuming that ;)

heckert emphasizes the defensive backfield, and clearly he has good reason to do so. he’s done a pretty great job scouting and selecting db’s (considering 3/4 of our starting db’s are heckert guys).

If they don’t end up at least in the top five than all those conspiracy theorists who talk about media bias against the Browns will have their proof.

Monny, number 86 on the Bears, is FAT!

Delhomme

He did not look pretty, and only made one “almost devastingingly” bad pass, but he did enough to keep us in there to win. Decent job today.

One good drive and 80 checkdown passes to his TE and RB. Still hoping he doesn’t play another down in Cleveland.

you just described Colt McCoy’s career thus far.

Pretty much.

Notice, though, that when we aren’t turning it over with that style, we win.

I have no problem with that style, as you said, it works.

Exactly right. We’re built to play that way.

81 for 127, 975 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs

Hmmm… a lot better than 6 INTs half of which are pick sixes.

Colt McCoy basically only throws to the TE and RBs, and isn’t exactly the catalyst of our offense. again, I would much rather have McCoy under center, but he hasn’t played like a pro-bowler or anything.

What’s great is that he doesn’t need to put up pro-bowl stats. Our offense should be built around our future all-pro, Peyton Hillis.

Western Reserve - December 6, 2010 reply

Well, eventually we’d like a QB that can do more than just manage a game. We can’t be a one trick pony through Hillis forever, and, besides, we are going to kill the guy.

Exactly. This is the first game in about the last 5 I’ve been able to watch down here in WV. They finally televised one!!! Anyways, just watching the runs today, Hillis is getting way too many carries. He is gonna end up beat down and wore out and out of the nfl way too early. Bell sucks, so I’m really hoping Hardesty stays healthy next year and pans out in the NFL to compliment Hillis.

Kimble_79 - December 6, 2010 reply

What’s great is that he doesn’t need to put up pro-bowl stats.

None of our QB’s do. Look at the amount of games lost because of catastrophic mistakes coming from the quarterback. McCoy by and large avoided those mistakes when he got his chance.

Yes, it would be awesome to have a pro-bowl caliber QB but right now the Browns can win without one. They just need mistake free football.

I think we have seen that defenses can and will shut Hillis down. A WR – QB combo for Plan B ain’t such a bad idea.

JustBob - December 6, 2010 reply

Valid point. But it doesn’t mean that they need “pro bowl” stats.

He throws to MoMass as much as Delhomme has in starts. And its not like Delhomme gets it to him much more often as a catchable ball. Personally, in this category I see it as a wash.

so you’re agreeing with me?

I am saying if there is a difference between colt and JD throwing to WRs, it is not very significant. Even before this game, their stats throwing to the WRs were similar. Delhomme was a bit better, but nothing too significant (like a 1-1.5 more targets per game at most to the WRs)

If you will read how this conversation got started, someone was complaining that Jake threw too much to TEs and RBs, and for that reason never wanted to see him again. My point was that Colt throws to those players just as much or more. You are agreeing with me.

Seems like you’re going to a lot of effort to pull Delhomme even with McCoy. The problem with that game is that Delhomme should be a lot better than McCoy. He’s the veteran, he has the experience, he’s getting paid that way, he got the reps in the preseason.

If all Delhomme can do is play as well as our rookie, then he’s a backup, nothing more, because this team isn’t contending this year. Argue all you want about whether he’s been as good as one might expect – it’s meaningless, because as soon as McCoy is healthy, Delhomme is out. He’s Kerry Collins. Who cares?

And if you want to dig into the numbers, he’s actually worse. As rufio said above, the reward isn’t there with the risk. Delhomme is averaging 6.1 yards per attempt, McCoy is averaging 7.7. McCoy isn’t out there setting records, so it’s just not acceptable for Delhomme to be worse.

I’m not mad at the guy, just done with him.

dgcambridge - December 6, 2010 reply

If Colt is healthy, sure lets play him. However if delhomme can play mistake-free (or just limit mistakes) football like yesterday, he is a satisfactory substitute when Colt is injured.

this is what I have been trying to say, in a much more roundabout manner.

okay. I think we are pretty much on the same page then but just running in literary circle.

Western Reserve - December 6, 2010 reply

Bross, you definitely run in literary circles. I mean, just look at that prose!

If this were the Algonuin, bross would be carrying a tray.

yeah…I really didn’t mean it like that but couldn’t find a better word to say we were running circles with words (I just did…but I wanted to use that sentence structure)

You need to hire an editor for your blog comments.

Chemo - December 7, 2010 reply

haha…could you thought of a better word? I know literal has an alternate definition that would have worked, but then people are thinking about the more common definition of literal and imagining me running round and round NTN in a circle

As I’ve stated numerous times, as soon as McCoy is healthy, he should play. I just feel like people are overreacting in both directions. Delhomme hasn’t been as bad as people think and McCoy hasn’t been as good. McCoy still makes rookie mistakes, and Delhomme (in just this past game) wasn’t as bad as people are saying.

McCoy has been better. he has not been better at throwing to WRs, which is how this started. There are good arguments for McCoy to start, tons of them, but that isn’t one.

At the risk of courting yet another QB debate, I suspect a more interesting question isn’t whether Colt should play when healthy – um, yes – but whether Jake should be playing now instead of Seneca.

I consider the two about even.

Probably so right now, but I feel that Seneca has more potential upside and more of a possible future here, so….

I don’t think he has any upside left at 29, but he probably does have more of a future here.

RelapsingDawgCatcher - December 7, 2010 reply

I guess I’m not convinced we’ve seen all there is to see with Seneca. With Jake, well, I think we probably have, and that’s not entirely a good thing.

If Jake plays like he did yesterday, Jake 100%. If he has one of those games where he throws a couple bad picks, that is a more interesting question.

I like Jake and think he can still be a decent QB in this league. BUT he has got to stop panicking when getting hit and throwing those late balls of desparation that keep going for six points the other direction. He done it again this last game. That must stop, like yesterday.

Kimble_79 - December 7, 2010 reply

I totally agree.

ah…

I guess I misunderstood the train of argument. I don’t agree with the person who wanted Delhomme out after this game. I guess I do agree with you…

Actually what he just described is what a QB playing under center for the Browns is limited to given what he has to work with at this point. Given that limitation, I think Jake did a pretty good job today.
A stud wide receiver – hard to come by but would be a huge addition if the Browns could pick one up either through FA or draft day. Browns need someone who can stretch the field.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

I won’t disagree with this.

i wouldnt mind picking up vincent jackson from S.D. this offseason! then get another wr from the draft. i would like to see if blackmon declares at the end of this year?! i know alot of people here want green, but i think he is to much of a prima dona to work out here. imo i think blackmon is just as good minus the ego. i would also not mind getting alshon jefferies from s. carolina if he comes out next year!

Julio Jones out of Alabama looks like a strong prospect.
Saw him play against Auburn – great athlete, great speed, very physical.
Reminded me of Michael Irvin.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

he has dropped quite a few passes though, and some say he still needs to work on route running a little more. thats just my opinion though

I did see him drop one in that game he should have caught.
Had 10 catches for 199 yards and a TD though.
Any prospect is going to have a route running learning curve, but everything I’ve read about him says he’s a hard worker.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

I think floyd will be a better pro and I think he will have more impact the first year. Floyd has run pretty much the whole route tree in Weis’ Pro offense and has much more consistent hands.

Not that familiar with Floyd.
Not exactly sold on the “Weis Pro offense” disciple argument after watching Clausen so far though…

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

He pushes off on every play?

woodsmeister - December 5, 2010 reply

kinda notice that too! but he can be broke of that just like he can be taught to run routes better

Michael Irvin reference? Just picked up on that.
I mostly meant his athleticism and physical style of play in general.
The kid is really strong and fast.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

thats one reason i like blackmon okla. st., i think hes just as good as green and could really be a gem if he declares!

He likes to block?

I would LOVE for the draft to work out like Walterfootball has it working out now (dislike his analysis but has very good mock drafts). In his, Robert Quinn drops and we pick him up in the first. Michael Floyd also drops and we pick him up in the 2nd. I would rather have him than Julio Jones.

i would take floyd over jones! would rather have bowers than quinn, but i doubt he falls to us

jonathan baldwin is also an option. the only thing about him is that he doesn’t seem to get a lot of separation and his speed is questionable. still, the guy has awesome hands, concentration and size.

i also wouldnt mind if we dropped back picked up some picks and took baldwin!

he also looks slow in his breaks and isn’t very fluid in his motions. If he didn’t have great speed, but had very good lateral agility and fluidity, I wouldn’t worry as much. the problem is that the only way he truly beats guys is his height.

I love Jones. His hands need to improve, but he is playing with a broken one this year.

Doesn’t remind me of Irvin as much, but I don’t really care about that. Bama fans keep telling me he’s said he won’t leave in the draft unless he’s a top-5 pick, and he isn’t at this point.

Again, another guy with fantastic physical skills. Every time I hear “dropsies problem” I fear that the guy doesn’t have natural good hands. Give me the guy who the ball just seems to stick to, not the guy who has to double catch everything.

Have you seen the kid play? He doesn’t have to double-catch everything.

rufio - December 9, 2010 reply

Agree. A guy who put up 199 yards averaging 20 yards per catch against Auburn probably doesn’t have to double-catch everything.

burntorangeandbrown - December 9, 2010 reply

Auburn’s DB’s can’t cover.

Bernie19Kosar - December 9, 2010 reply

Jones is still pretty good.

rufio - December 10, 2010 reply

May be. But covered or not covered, you gotta catch the ball, and I don’t think you’re going to put up 199 yards / average 20 yards per catch receiving against Auburn, who is playing for their lives to preserve their BCS title hopes, if you can’t catch balls without ‘double-catching everything’.
Guys who have real problems with dropping balls (don’t have good hands) tend to drop balls whether they’re wide open or they’re covered.
I’m not saying Jones necessarily has the greatest hands – apparently he has dropped a few, just saying the statement “he has to double-catch everything” is a bit of a stretch when you look at his stats.
Jones may not have the best hands of all the elite college receivers, but he has a lot of other positives that I’ve seen in a couple games and I’ve read about in several scouting write-ups – i.e. very strong, physical athletic player, very fast, excellent blocking, hard working, etc.

burntorangeandbrown - December 10, 2010 reply

actually, braylon edwards always seemed to catch the ball when covered when in college. It was the quick pass, the screen pass, the one where he was wide open that he missed more often. In many cases (and I believe in Julio’s case too), its less about “bad hands” and more about “inconsistent concentration”

bross09 - December 10, 2010 reply

We don’t take guys with character issues. V Jax will never be a Brown.

Want to recommend Posnanski’s article in this week’s SI about Pioli as well. Talks about Pioli’s belief in building a team of guys with good character. Good read

Sounds like my kind of article. Re: Colt McCoy ;)

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

understood, but v jax’s issues i think had to do more with a.j. smith who seems to be an a@@. i think he would do ok imo

I believe he was serving a 4 game suspension for DUI to start this season. That coupled with a contract holdout seems like a big no for Mangini.

didnt know he was a drunkard!! lol. maybe not a good fit but i would like to see who we look at in the draft!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1179410/1/index.htm

you pry didnt know that blackmon got a dui in october either.

browns8 - December 5, 2010 reply

Thanks for the heads up. Look forward to reading it. Here’s the link:

Thanks for the link golan, bookmarked.

I’ve heard good things about Julio Jones – hard worker, etc.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

I feel a heck of a lot better with McCoy under center.

On a game when we’re down and need a drive to win, I would rather have McCoy than Delhomme every time.

This x1000.

Not really, Colt’s ability to throw down the field is much better and he seems to be able to lead receivers better.

HenryDawg - December 6, 2010 reply

I agree with you. I have been hard on Delhomme since the Browns signed him so today when he did not kill us, I thought I would he did ok. I think the Browns’s offense is designed with a mobile quarterback in mind. Everything slows down and becomes vanilla with Delhomme. He did enough to win today. I want McCoy back as starter. I say in two weeks.

I think the Browns’s offense is designed with a mobile quarterback in mind.

?

I am saying that I think they have a harder time moving the ball with Delhomme because he is not as mobile as Wallace or McCoy. I think at times the offense needs a quarterback that can buy some time when the pocket collapses. Also some designed roll outs Delhomme doesn’t handle as well.

champion64 - December 6, 2010 reply

Was Wright even in the game at all today?

Yes, he played Nickel.

My man Jacoby Ford’s doing pretty well in Oakland.

Yea I wish we’d grabbed him. When did he go? 4th?

I think so.

Hell of a pick then. I’m shocked the Raiders made a decent pick.

Hes super fast. The surprising thing would have been if the Raiders didn’t pick him. Or that they didn’t pick him sooner.

This is true.

I liked this guy a lot before the draft. However, I usually go for the smaller, faster wideouts.

…Another Manning pick 6.

Something’s wrong with him.

He has a busted up o-line, and aging WR that’s playing with a bunch of young WR’s and no running game. Even Peyton Manning has trouble overcoming all those obstacles.

broke

broke like your fantasy league team this week…hahahahaha

My team isn’t bad. In fact, I’ve scored more points overall than 6 teams that are ahead of me. It’s my matchup luck that is broke.

lulz

Bahaha. I’ve never heard Jake talk before. His accent makes me laugh.

pretty sure its like a cajun/southern frenchish accent. the name delhomme is french

macdowellm03 - December 5, 2010 reply

In my opinion the Browns took a big step today in learning how to win the type of game they need to know how to win to be successful in the AFC North. This was a very physical game in the trenches, and for as bad as the Offenses’ looked, a Defensive battle. It wasn’t pretty, just as late season close games against the Steelers and Ravens won’t be. This was a Miami team that was built to be physical and we didn’t look at all like we were pushed around, other than the usual right side of the O-line. Good win.

dierdorf pointed out mangini’s “pyramid” of a team’s progression during the game, and i thought it was interesting. in order, a team needs to learn how to:

1. work
2. compete
3. win
4. win consistently

thinking back on the last 2 years, that progression is pretty evident in the browns’ performance. feels like we’re somewhere in the middle of tier 3.

Yeah. I have heard mangini say that before. It does make a lot of sense and one you buy into the system, thats when you start being more consistent at being in tiers 2 and 3. I feel we really started to buy into the system at the end of last year (not just the 4 wins in a row but the 3 previous games I feel we bought in) and were into tiers 2 and 3. Now, we need another piece or two and another year in the system and I think we an be at tier 4.

Yeah, I definitely like looking back at this because it makes you feel a little better about that 2009 season.

Colts took the lead back off a blocked punt for TD.

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/ballot

Everybody needs to vote.

Damn Joe Haden isn’t listed.

Woah, that’s some bullsh*t.

5 picks in 5 strait games, and those douchebags list Eric f**king Wright……

they list the starters from earlier in the year. simmer.

This takes a while.

Little bit.

You can just vote for one player if you want, just submit the ballot anytime during the process. I’ve been voting for Hillis every time I visit nfl.com for the past week or so.

NOOOOOO! Marshawn Lynch has randomly scored 18 points. I’m only up 6 now, and with Braylon still to play I’m probably going to lose.

John Skelton is in for Arizona. Poor DA. It’s bad when you get benched for two rookies.

Marshawn Lynch with 27 points. WTF.

I lost :(

Come on, throw a touchdown pass to Tamme!

Or just throw a 4th pick, making it 11 in 3 games.

another INT by Manning. Wow.

Miami can keep Lebron and the ESPN Heat. Give me the Browns over the Fins every day of the week.

Rec. Rec. Rec. Rec. Rec. ….

THIS

I read this as a rap.

o.0

Baltimore vs. Pittsburgh… who do we want to win? I know, it’s like asking if you’d rather be stabbed or shot.

I’m just hoping its a sloberknocker, just blasting into each other at full speed, handing out concussions like their free frosties.

Yeah, I actually find myself rooting for James Harrison…;)

After all the sloberknocking and blasting I want the theme song for that game to be “These boots were made for walkin”.
Walkin boots all around – players lined up tomorrow before practice to pick up a pair.

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

We’re all still hanging on to the chance that we can still make the playoffs. Baltimore has the tougher schedule going forward, and thus are more likely to falter going in. By this logic, I will root for Pittsburgh, as much as it will pain me to do so.

I’ll root for spontaneous stadium implosion.

I’m rooting for the meteor.

A REC everytime.

definitely shot

sww2109 - December 5, 2010 reply

Baltimore vs. Pittsburgh… who do we want to win?

The comet.

For them to kick the heck out of each other for five quarters.

woodsmeister - December 5, 2010 reply

I will sit there and watch the game as neutral as Switzerland. If the outcome happens to benefit the Browns then all the better – but I wouldn’t be caught dead actually “rooting” for either of those teams.

I’ll be rooting for some pain to be inflicted on both sides and I’m not at all ashamed to admit it.

Im just happy to get to watch these 2 games coming up. Ravens/Steelers and Jets/Pats…you can’t beat that for a sunday/monday night lineup…sick of seeing boring NFC matchups during primetime.

I don’t want to jinx it, but it would suck if those were boring too.

As much as I hate them, the Ravens and Steelers hate each other too much for that game to be boring.

discoinferno083 - December 5, 2010 reply

stating the obvious: NO TURNOVERS.

about time.
THIS is why we won.

hope we can keep our players in the woodshed and continue the trend,,,

yes, even if it (angrily) costs me Hillis fantasy points.

I’m hoping for a lot of injuries out of this game, don’t care who wins!

Ben just got his nose broken.

Hahaha, Big Ben may have a broken nose

I’d be surprised if the punk hasn’t had 20 broken noses in his lifetime…

zz

Colinsworth tries to rile up the Pittsburgh faithful…

DisplacedBuckeye - December 5, 2010 reply

I mean, he did get hit in the face…obviously…which is usually a penalty.

I think he was falling down, but I may be wrong.

yeah he was, but if they can call a b.s. penalty on suh from the lions game?!! i thought they were really cracking down on it whether intentional or not.

I didn’t see Suh’s penalty, so I can’t really speak to that. I am of the opinion that if it’s unintentional, a play like that shouldn’t be penalized, but the NFL may not agree.

which is correct. unintentional should not be called. they said suh put a forearm to the back of cutlers head after he became a runner past the line of scrimmage. he gave him a good push with his fists but hit him in the top of the shoulder pads before his hands went up to the back of his helmet. so they flagged him.

That was a horrible call.

a link here clearly shows that he had beaten his man, backup Ramon Foster, and after being beat the blocker pushes him, trying to bring him down and inadvertently pushes him right into Big Ben. Ngata is off balance and he grabs onto ben to bring him down, but it looks like also to regain his footing because he is falling.

hes not riling us up in findlay thats for sure!!!! his disclaiming us as his hometown is biting him and his ego right in the a@@!!!! love it

WE need some right side of the OLine Help

Was it Womack that got beat badly on one sack. We need two guys over there on that side. Our starters are on that side are average at best.

No, St. Clair messed up his responsibility and Womack had to correct but failed. Once again, St. Clair is bad.

was that on the last sack by wake??

yes. Womack completely missed his responsibility and was nowhere near the guy (I think it was wake) and Womack desperately tried to do something but was out of position b/c it wasn’t his responsibility.

yeah the running back or tight end completely missed on getting a shot on him to slow hi down as well, that was a blownassignment all the way around. you could almost say that all three didnt do what they were or supposed to do on that play.

I don’t blame womack. It seemed pretty clear his assignment was not primarily to block the edge. I don’t know even if there was a back in the area so until I find a clip, I will assume it was all St. Clair.

St. Clair messed up his responsibility

yes. Womack completely missed his responsibility

?

I messed up names. I meant to say St. Clair there.

Are you sure it wasn’t a dual read by the guard?

yeah, I’m not sure who messed up, but somebody missed that read. they had St. Claire on the #1 with the guard blocking nobody. at the very least the guard should have been able to push St. Claire off onto #2.

somebody missed really badly, and delhomme was (rightly) pissed about it. that was a really bad play.

Troy Polyhair got SCHOOLED!

I was watching a clip where Ben’s nose gets wrecked. I noticed one thing. the Pittsburgh O-Line is FAT. I mean, I know O-Lineman are all bigger guys, but look at Joe Thomas. the guy isn’t just blubber, but is ridiculously ripped. Steinbach also is pretty slim and Mack is about average for an O-Lineman. Womack is our heaviest lineman at about 328. Kemoatu is 345! That dude has a huge stomach (though I will admit I am not much of one to talk).

Just something I noticed…It makes sense then why these guys aren’t good pass blockers and get beaten by speed guys.

Look at this BS write up of the game from the Associated Press:

The jeers came often Sunday for the Dolphins. They managed to look even more inept than the hapless Browns, who stumbled to a 13-10 win.

As Miami and Cleveland traded punts and mistakes, the question was which team would find a way to lose, and a last-minute Dolphins turnover gave the Browns the win.

Hapless Browns? The same Browns who have won four of the last six? The same Browns who had 0 turnovers and played suffocating defense? That writer is an asshat.

bbstirrd - December 5, 2010 reply

Nothing to worry about. Written by the same idiot that wrote up the summary of the Panthers game.
The headline from that masterpiece: “Browns withstand Panthers’ furious comeback”
Really had to laugh at that one. The headline alone gives him away as a mentally impaired imposter posing as a sports writer.
(link to Panther game article from same idiot)

burntorangeandbrown - December 5, 2010 reply

What were the Browns mistakes he was referring to? The reason we won was lack of mistakes.

The lack of mistakes was the best part of the game today, well with the exception of the LATE INTERCEPTION WHICH HAD THE WHOLE FAMILY LEAVE THEIR CHAIRS AND CELEBRATE!

to be fair, we did look pretty hapless on offense for the most part. I mean in today’s nfl scoring only 13 points against anyone is pretty hapless; when the good teams seem like they can put up 25 or 30 almost every week.

jaws. - December 5, 2010 reply

Pittsburgh has four victories this year scoring under 20 points. They scored 13 last night. They won with 19 in Buffalo.

New Orleans put up 12 less points on Carolina than we did and still won.

Sometimes teams play good defense.

Last night the Steelers defeated the Ravens 13-10 thanks to a great defensive play at the end of the game (sound familiar?). Collinsworth was gushing about the game being an instant classic that should be replayed numerous times. Here’s some excerpts from the AP writeup:

A fierce defensive battle turned when Polamalu hit Flacco’s arm on a safety blitz. LaMarr Woodley returned the loose ball 19 yards to the Baltimore 9, setting up Pittsburgh’s lone touchdown.

The game was a defensive battle, as expected. And Polamalu and Roethlisberger again made the difference.

Amazing how different the national media’s perception is of two very similar games.

bbstirrd - December 6, 2010 reply

I definitely see your point; I was thinking of the same thing.

With that said, as good as both the Browns and Dolphins did at defending, the look and feel of the intensity in the Steelers/Ravens game was definitely higher. Also, the expectations for shutting down Roethlisberger/Flacco vs. Henne/Delhomme are different.

Even myself, I would say that was one heck of a fun Sunday night game to watch. If I watched the Browns/Dolphins game without being a Browns fan, I probably would’ve tried to see if some other games were on.

Chris Pokorny - December 6, 2010 reply

I am probably in the minority, but I would much rather watch a game where our defense outplays our offense than vice versa. Give me a 13-10 physical game over a 24-23 game.

I’d like to watch a 24-10 game personally.

Tough against a really good D though. We aren’t there yet.

Everything Chris just said. I found the Baltimore/Pitt game to be a great game. I can’t say the same about the Browns/Fins game — though I loved a lot of plays.

Still, I think it is ridiculous to describe the Browns as either “inept” or “hapless”. The Browns are neither.

bbstirrd - December 6, 2010 reply

Who described them as such?

they were described as hapless in the AP write-up.

The same guy who said that Carolina had a “furious comeback”.

Still, I think it is ridiculous to describe the Browns as either "inept" or "hapless". The Browns are neither.

I agree — I think the Browns have plenty of hap.

We’re also ept.

i’d even suggest that browns fans are quite gruntled, at this point.

I am so gruntled

everyone is extremely gruntled?

Uggh.

JustBob - December 7, 2010 reply

bross09 - December 8, 2010 reply

buuuuuuuh…..

so gruntled.

Quick note on how awesome Hoheni is:

Player A: 50 catches, 574 yards, 3 TD’s
Player B: 50 catches, 506 yards, 2 TD’s

I will give ya’ll about 30 minutes to try and guess. Blew my mind. I knew this dude was playing great, but he has been an absolute steal. All praise Hoheni!

Player A is Ben Watson, my guess for player B is KWII

If B is KWII, have to give Mangenius some credit.

I concur with your guess.

Bingo.

Watson has given us everything K2 does and more. Between Watson (whose nickname should be “Elementary”) and Fujita, those two under the radar signings have been awesome.

All that without the childish antics, contract whining and missed practice time.

Athletes having class. I love it!

I viewed Winslow in a much better light than Edwards. K2 always seemed to put out on the field. I had no problem with trading him though. Those knees and that contract…enjoy it Tampa Bay!

Same here.

I still have a lot of love for K2, despite some of his theatrics. I never felt like he quit on us. Though I agree the trade was a good move at the time. Wish we’d gotten someone better with his pick but that’s the draft - sometimes you hit, sometimes you don’t

I always like Winslow. He played hard and he played hurt.

That being said, I hate his contract.

More power to him for getting it.

Agreed. WIth this and what TDSH said below. More power to him, though now he has got it he hasn’t fully lived up to it.

I like K2 and all, but considering salaries, I am glad we have Ben Watson.

K2 was always a really talented player and I love his hands, but the guy was really expensive for a tight end and I don’t think he was too happy with the browns over the whole staph-infection fiasco.

However I have to admit that during the draft I was surprised that mangini traded k2 and kept edwards, because I never thought that K2 was a ‘team cancer’ in the same breath as the perpetually petulant Braylon, even if K2 was a little skrewy in the head.

However I suppose it could have been the case that k2 generated interest and Braylon didn’t. Man the Jets are dumb.

Don’t forget the weekly offensive passing interference fouls.

bbstirrd - December 6, 2010 reply

and his base salary is about half the money. Not that it matters as much in an uncapped year, but if the cap comes back (which I expect it to), watson will make 2.4 mil on his current contract for 2011 and K2 will make 8.3 in 2011…

Even if you look at K2s rookie contract, Ben Watson is still a great bargain….and healthier and not too much older.

A bunch of people looked over the Watson signing, I thought it was huge.

I believe I predicted the Ben “my dear” Watson signing as being important.

I thought the Benny “and The Jets” Watson signing was good as well.

Looks like DBN had this one right.

I think this is huge.

thaaaats what she said…

even Rocland was positive about the deal. Also it turns out we didn’t need the depth pool brought as much as we thought.

I MISS HEIDEN THOUGH!

i always thought watson underperformed in new england, for whatever reason, and that he was pretty close to breaking out. he’s a super-talented guy … i see him being an important part of the offense for several years to come.

He became less relevant when they got Welker who received every underneath pass from Brady.

Yup.

I have to guess that his relationship with belicheck soured somehow, becuase watson did have a couple good years for the patriots and belicheck loved his effort (I seem to remember a play where he ran like 80 yards to prevent a score on an INT return) but all of a sudden it seemed like they stopped using him and belicheck no longer held him in any sort of esteem.

Interesting that we are calling watson a steal while new england had no problem letting him go in favor of using draft picks on two similar players? Kinda like the Josh McDaniels / Peyton Hillis head scratcher — it makes you wonder.

Wishful Thinking

This Ratbirds vs. Stillers game is a bloodbath. Hope they swipe each other out. That headshot Miller just took was brutal.

Juannieboy - December 5, 2010 reply

Flozell Adams down now.

That was vicious. I hate the Steelers and their whiny ass fans, but that should have been a flag.

NFL saying it should have been. I think a fine is coming.

There’s a note at the end of the game recap on si.com that Evan Moore hurt his hip in the game. Hope it isn’t serious. He missed a year and a half, I think, with a dislocated hip at Stanford.

Damn.

suisham is punting for the steelers. how ’bout that….

Maybe this is old news, but did anyone notice our boy James Davis got 40 yards on 9 carries today for Washington? Wouldn’t it be nice to get that out of Mike Bell or ANY RB that isn’t Peyton Hillis?

shep615 - December 6, 2010 reply

Confusing End...

Was anyone else confused/upset when we knelt the ball 3x at the 2-yard line to set up a FG instead of trying to punch it in with Hillis a few times? Why not try and go up by 7 with a minute to go rather than suggest that we have no faith in the only two things we have going for us right now, Peyton Hillis and the defense!

GBatch0921 - December 6, 2010 reply

He could’ve gotten stuffed, fumbled, f-ed up in a number of ways.

I had no problem playing it safe and killing the clock for an assured win.

It was the smart thing to do, punch it in on the 1st play and they get the ball back with about a minute left to tie the game. We decided to take the conservative approach and it payed off.

Nope. It was absolutely the right decision. Run the clock and you all but eliminate the chance that the Dolphins win in regulation.

They pretty much played it by the book. Reminds me of this last year from MJD and the Jags (which was arguably a little questionable because they were down 1).

I liked the taking the knee. Don’t risk the fumble.

Think about it from the opposing perspective and say the teams flipped positions. Wouldn’t you feel a lot more helpless if you knew your offense wasn’t getting the ball back? Your only prayer is essentially a missed extra point.

We’re not the Bengals. We have one of the best kickers in the NFL. Absolutely the right call.

woodsmeister - December 6, 2010 reply

I said to punch it in at the time, but of course that’s wrong. I don’t care how much you like the Hillis and the D, you’ve got to have more faith in Dawson from 23 yards.

dgcambridge - December 6, 2010 reply

This goes back to the Jags game.

If we scored, we were giving the Dolphins their only chance to win/tie.

Ben’s nose looks absolutely terrible.

Ngata wrecked it.

Let’s win our last 4 and make the playoffs!!!!

Brownie's Year - December 6, 2010 reply

Just for kicks, I’m going to do a ridiculous, “these are the teams we need to root for in order to get a wildcard spot” post in a little bit. It’s not that I legitimately believe we’ll get into the playoffs, but since we’re not “officially” eliminated at this point of the season for once, why not get some fun out of it?

Chris Pokorny - December 6, 2010 reply

Hell yes!

That’s the spirit that made America great.

The spirit of Massachusetts?

No matter what you write, I refuse to root for the Ravens or Steelers for any reason. The ends sometimes do not justify the means.

woodsmeister - December 6, 2010 reply

. The ends sometimes do not justify the means.

Your sick Grandfather is loaded. What do?

he’s sick, I don’t need to do anything.

you need to do some ‘end of life planning’ here before the year is out to avoid the death tax. George Steinbrenner is sitting in on a beach in cuba sharing a cigar and a mint julip with castro.

well I think we will be rooting a lot against the ravens now. they are now holding the WC spot so if we want to get into the playoffs, they have to lose almost all the rest of their games…

We also have a decent shot if the Jets lose out too

football night in america showed an “afc playoff hunt” graphic last night, and the browns appeared in the “in the hunt” column. i was speechless.

NO WAY! =D

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/12/06/1959212/rain-of-boos-well-deserved.html

…AND OF COURSE,

yet another opposing teams newspaper calling a loss to the Browns the ‘worst loss of the season’ because, simply, ’it’s the BROWNS, people, C’MON.’

local reporter can’t take enough time to look at the schedule results and make some informed decisions as to the type of team they will be facing…the extent of the research is basically “we lost the the Browns. The Browns suck and the coaches are going to be fired.”

This is, of course, abut the 5th time this year this has been the prevailing opinion in another city. Hell, even The Phinsider, which should know alot more and alot better, added this on the pregame prediction. “I’m a little surprised that there are analysts out there who think that the Browns will actually win”

I have to admit I’m loving this…not gonna trot out that old tired ‘we get no respect’ cliche that everybody and their sister thinks applies to THEIR team…but I am getting immense satisfaction from reading this stuff every week after a win.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

I think they may be thinking of it from the point that the browns have the worst record of any team they have faced. However even thought its the pats, its much worse being blown out by them and its much worse to get shut out by the Bears…thats just my opinion

However even thought its the pats, its much worse being blown out by them and its much worse to get shut out by the Bears…thats just my opinion

That’s my main point. I would assert a blowout loss to a division rival (especially since they seemed to harbor playoff aspirations up to this point) and a shut out loss against the Bears would be a lot more ‘tough’ to take than a close loss to a team that, while clearly not as talented as the other 2, is pretty much a shoo-in to at least give you a hard-fought, physical matchup. The Browns not doing so has become the exception and not the rule. Teams would be well-advised to be aware of that.

johnnyphoenix - December 7, 2010 reply

Eat it, Phinsider.

rufio - December 7, 2010 reply

REC

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

Dawg Nuts - December 7, 2010 reply

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.

Wow was all that necessary?

emily522 - December 6, 2010 reply

Yes.

Glad you all agree.

Now that’s some groupthink.

I know this is going to sound unbelievable, but here it is.
I heard recently that one of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just downright bad coaching if that is the case.

burntorangeandbrown - December 6, 2010 reply

I don’t believe you.