Dawgs By Nature

Mangini made a decision on Thursday and told eveyone about it. Now that is progress!!

Do you think maybe Mangini hopes that McCoy can save his job? Hmmmmmmmmm?
I don’t buy the rumors (really rumor) circulating around that the staff has already been told they are out. I don’t think Holmgren would work that way. But I now have the opinion that Mangini is on his way out at the end of the season. I think the defense and special teams staff will stay untouched as long as they want to stay but the offensive side will be gutted and replaced.
Just my opinion… not a new rumor.

I think the ultimatum comes down – Mangini can stay if Daboll is out. Holmgren will look at the QB carousel and injuries and note how well they did despite these facts. The decision to have Delhomme/Wallace was not Mangini’s, but Holmgren and Heckert. For this reason Big Mike will say my bad and give Mangini another chance, but Daboll has to go.

I agree. New coaching staff for Mangini.

Although I could believe some of the coaching staff may go, regardless of how we finish out the season, IMO Mangini should be given another year minimum. Rebuilding a team doesn’t happen overnight and certainly not over the span of two years. It can’t always be the HCs fault. Injuries and other unexpected things happen along the way. Let’s get everyone healthy on both sides of the line, get the support personnel Colt needs to be the playmaker he is capable of being, and just play smart, tough football.
GO BROWNS!!!!!!!

I really don’t like the coaching carousel either BUT I think there might be a pretty big disconnect here between the way Mangini thinks you need to win and how Holmgren thinks you need to win. I think Mangini is more about keeping it close and winning on the last drive of the game. Play conservative and let the other team make mistakes. Keep their offense off the field. Value the punt. That kind of thing. I think Holmgren likes some of that but favors a more pro-active offense taking a bit more risk and challenging the opposing defense at all levels. And I don’t think Holmgren is into waiting to see if Mangini is going to pan out. There is the coach vs coach argument that says he’ll keep Mangini because he knows how hard it is to turn things around but does Holmgren think that Mangini is turning things around? And does he think that the final result that Mangini is trying to achieve is something that will result in a Superbowl Championship? I think if Holmgren thinks he can improve the team’s chances with a coaching change he will definitely make a change.
Here is a little poll for you guys… pick one:

1. Has Mangini already lost his job?
2. If the Browns lose out, is Mangini gone for sure?
3. If the Browns beat the Bengals but lose the last two games is Mangini gone for sure?
4. Will Mangini stay no matter what happens the rest of the year?

I’m banking on 1. I think the loss to Buffalo was the final nail in the coffin. I feel coaching was a major factor in that loss which never should have happened.

Nice thoughts…. You’re right. If the right coach is out there that Holmgren feels comfortable with (Gruden, etc. ) and he/they want to come to Cleveland it may be done. It may come down to the quality of the upgrade. I got the sense when Crennel was fired that there was not a plan in place for replacement. With Holmgren, if Mangini is fired then the replacement is already set.

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No

Totally agree with the Crennel firing… there was definitely no plan in place and it seemed they had no obvious upgrade plan in place. I’m thinking that would be different with Holmgren in place. I don’t think he even dreams of firing Mangini if he doesn’t have someone in mind that would be an definite upgrade in his eyes.

DontCallMeJoey - December 17, 2010 reply

i’m not sure what we mean by a “plan” in place post-crennel. lerner talked to cowher, that was Plan A, then when cowher said no he went to pioli, that was Plan B, and then when pioli looked like he wasn’t going to work out mangini’s turn came. seems to me randy had a wish list and the top 2 simply didn’t work out.

If Mangini’s job is contingent on beating 1 of Steelers or Ravens that is not really fair.

Roger Dorn - December 16, 2010 reply

Fair? Why does it have to be fair? Beating divsional rivals is essential. We cannot continue to think we can be a playoff contender hoping 3 teams can come out of the AFC North. To back down from my position maybe strong wins or close losses will be OK, but if we go into PIT and BAL and flop then I would have to start wondering whether Mangini can game plan these teams.

SBP - December 17, 2010 reply

I agree with your premise (?), but I hope that his job doesn’t hinge on beating 1 of those 2 teams as well.

Western Reserve - December 17, 2010 reply

True, no one ensures the evaluation is “fair.” Although, while I think there may be a lot riding on these final games, I think Mangini will be judged in the aggregate. Still, there’s a world of difference between finishing 5-11 and, say, 7-9.

Mangini has already beaten the steelers, something we hadn’t done in the previous 5 bajillion meetings.

The evaluation should be fair. Why fire a perfectly good coach and replace him for no good reason?

We will have to beat pit and bal in order to become a playoff contender, this is true. Presently, we are not a legitimate playoff contender, but I think most people believed that coming in to the season.

While Mangini has not yet turned us in to a playoff team, he has improved the team and has us playing above our talent level. I might dare to say he has put a good defense on the field with 2-3 star level players, 2 of which are rookies.

Mangini has shown he can coach a team up and will be able to beat the big boys in the division as our talent level approaches theirs.

Is there actually any real speculation that he’s on the hot seat? But I’d probably choose #2. Losing all 4 of these final games would probably be a problem.

dgcambridge - December 16, 2010 reply

There are some rumors about Mangini but i think those are completely bogus. Speculation? There is a ton of that. The Buffalo game definitely opened up that whole can of worms again.

The Buffalo game definitely opened up that whole can of worms again.

it seems like the Buffalo game opened up a 50 gallon drum of worms. I was as negative after the loss as anyone and it took longer for me than it usually does to get over a loss; but come on, folks. does one stinker of a loss negate all of the positives and progress Mangini has created? we’re still a much better football team than we have been in a long time. not to mention, Buffalo may not be as bad as they have seemed most of the season. they’re really only one stupid, ridiculous dropped ball away from having beaten the steelers. we played poorly against Carolina as well, but in between we beat a pretty decent Miami team in their house.

my point is that the sky isn’t falling and the team doesn’t suck. we’re exactly what we’ve been all season: a decent team that still needs a few pieces and needs to learn how to finish games. I’m excited for the future and still feel like we could finish 7-9.

We hurt ourselves a lot during the Buffalo game, but they are much better than their record indicates. They’ve been playing people very tough recently.

very true. Football outsiders has their overall team efficiency at 25th. Efficiency I find to be a good stat to judge the overall play of teams (measures overall performance, regardless of W/L, and adjusted to SoS). Considering how competitive they have been with a very tough SoS, football outsiders ranks them as a better team than the 5-8 Redskins and the 6-7 Rams and Seahawks.

They are definitely a team people need to watch out for next season. If they can keep being competitive and have a draft with a lot of impact players right away, I can see them challenging to be .500 with an easier SoS.

If the browns lose out he’s definitely gone. If they beat the bengals but lose the last two i say its 50/50. If we beat the bengalss and win one more he’ll stay for sure

sww2109 - December 16, 2010 reply

While I agree that there is some chance of Mangini being fired, I disagree with your basic premise:

Did you ever consider that Mangini favors “keeping it close …. playing conservative, etc.” because of issues related to the talent we have on offense, especially at QB and WR, and lousy OC. I agree that he favors a run first offense, big/flexible defensive players, and solid contributions from special teams. Who wouldn’t?

I hope Daboli gets replaced, but not the rest of Mangini’s staff.

BrownsFanInAR - December 16, 2010 reply

I also don’t think he wants to keep it close, I think he wants to play like we did against New Orleans and New England.

Nice idea. Make mine:

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

That is, I think it’s a difficult decision not yet made, and which way it goes won’t come down to simple wins and losses.

Interesting. So what do you think the primary reason for the decision will be if not team performance? I think you are on to something here… just interested in your thoughts.

I don’t think RDC ever said the decision wouldn’t be based on performance, he said it wouldn’t be based on wins and losses. they are two entirely different things.

Quite. I think the exact number of wins in the waning phase of a non-playoff season isn’t going to be the deciding factor. I think that the way those games play out will have more to do with it than the final results. If we see three more Buffalo games, then it’s going to go very hard on Mangini.

Also though, I have to think that whether Mangini and Holmgren can agree on a common vision going forward will be significant – both on the diagnostic what’s-really-wrong-with-the-team level and on the corrective how-do-we-move-to-improve-it level. Can they both agree, say, that there are significant offensive issues beyond injuries and QB play? Can they agree that addressing those should involve, say, losing Daboll, changing offensive schemes, make significant free agency moves, or take other actions? Being on the same page with these issues could make the difference.

couldn’t agree more.

I don’t think it will be those specific issues that do it, but larger, more philosophic issues. I would like to see them meet in the middle, personally. Gotta have character guys and a good locker room, gotta have a few stars.

1. No. I believe Holmgren is absolutely a man of his word and will not make that decision until the final game is in the books.

2. Yes. No doubt.

3. Probably. And deservedly so if that turns out to be the case.

4. No.

Cap'n Snegiryov - December 16, 2010 reply

Play conservative and let the other team make mistakes. Keep their offense off the field. Value the punt.

Most Browns fans who are Buckeye fans should appreciate Tressel-ball. The question is, does Holmgren?

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

Even if they lose out, the way they have competed for the majority of the season is a huge step in the right direction. And I think Holmgren will take this into account. Even the loss last week in Buffalo was competitive. Depressing, but still within one socre.

I think it will go more towards a discussion on tweaking Mangini’s philosophy. Asking him to keep his Tressel-ball philosophy, but incorporating a slightly more dynamic attack on offense next season. But this cannot be accomplished until more playmakers (especially at WR) are brought in. The offense in its current state is because of the personnel we currently have. It could look very different next season and allow Mangini/OC to open it up more.

talonk - December 16, 2010 reply

You’re not going to win very much in the NFL playing Tressel-ball.

Really? That’s how the Steelers and Ravens have been winning for years.

talonk - December 16, 2010 reply

Ravens I will give you, but not the Steelers.

Cap'n Snegiryov - December 17, 2010 reply

That’s a myth propagated by sportscasters—ten years ago this was true, but not anymore. According to FootballOutsiders, Pittsburgh has the 3rd best passing game in the NFL, and Baltimore has the 8th best. Both teams have big-armed quarterbacks who like to stretch the field, and this is reflected in the fact that both teams are in the top ten in YPA,

Right. As much as some people want to say that Ben is nothing more than a “game manager” that’s actually far from the truth — he’s a really good QB who is a significant reason for their success. He’s always near the top of the league in YPA.

Buckeye Brad - December 17, 2010 reply

Ben….is….good.

So hard to type. Feeling a little nauseous for having to say it but it is true.

Thanks for typing it so I don’t have too.

Though I’d like to put a very in there somewhere.

blech

LondonBrown - December 17, 2010 reply

personally, dropping the conversation altogether would have been easier than typing that. you’re a stronger dawg than I!

TheDriveStillHurts - December 17, 2010 reply

Seriously dude. No need to say that out loud. Took me years to admit that Elway was one of the best QBs I ever saw play. I ain’t admiting nothing about the person you are talking about for a while.

While I don’t love the way they are ranking those passing offenses, I regrettably have to agree that both have very good passing games.

exactly. The ravens in 2000 I will give you won it without an amazing QB, but he didn’t make mistakes and thats what they needed him to do. This example is also an exception to the general rule (that you have to have a good passing game) because the team had a historically great D, a pro bowl returner (who had a return TD in the SB) and elite special teams, a HOF TE, and an elite running game. So many things have to line up to overcome QB deficiencies, you cannot truly rely on this.

Actually, you probably could because Jim Tressel will go to a ball control passing game when he needs to, which many NFL teams do.

Having a great defense and special teams never hurt anyone.

I REALLY agree with your almost last point:

I think if Holmgren thinks he can improve the team’s chances with a coaching change he will definitely make a change.

… And I agree totally. He should make a change if he feels like it will improve the team’s chances of winning. And to be honest (and this isn’t me being a hater or anything- I’ve been on the Mangini bandwagon ever since he was hired) I think that it is quite possible there could be someone else out there that could do the job better. A couple of points…:

There are some coaches that you fire because they did a piss poor job of coaching. I don’t think that would be the case if Mangini gets canned- It’s all about the fact that Holmgren was brought in to make the team into a playoff contender, and if there’s an upgrade over Mangini, he isn’t doing his job if he DOESN’T make the change.
As far as being a motivator, Mangini is very good. As far as the gameplan side of things, I think he’s lacking a little bit. I don’t think he’s the ENTIRE package yet, but give it time and I think he will be.
For those reasons, I wouldn’t be surprised or unhappy if he gets fired. I think he will get a head coaching gig somewhere else and will do really well with it. IF he does go, I wish him the best and will maybe cheer for whatever team he goes to. I really like the guy.

shep615 - December 16, 2010 reply

Mangini is a very good gameplanner in my eyes. The problem is the lack of adjustments during the game, especially on offense.

When he and his current staff have time to sit down and sort things out, they do well. We’ve even made Brady Quinn look great on some opening drives because of the plays we’ve scripted.

i’ve generally been of the opinion that mangini should be back no matter what … but you raise a point that’s hard to argue. if holmgren sees an opportunity to upgrade at the head coaching position, he must take it … just like if he sees an opportunity to upgrade at OLB or WR.

Some excellent observations. I think the only way you can win Mangini-style is by having a dominant defense. Otherwise, relying on Jim Tressel-like football isn’t going to work in the Pro’s.

Karen Marie - December 17, 2010 reply

Agreed with bringing back Mangini and the defensive staff. With just a bit more offensive punch we might still be in the playoff hunt.

Defense has been solid overall this year, the team as a whole has played hard and the lame brained penalties that plagued us during Romeo “I’m thinkin Arby’s” Crennell have largely been eliminated.

Fire Daboll, improve RT and WR, insert Colt as the #1 from the start of mini camp and hopefully we will be a winning team next year.

mgtbfb - December 16, 2010 reply

One thing that really is interesting statistically about the Browns defense… we are tied for allowing the least running touchdowns with 4. We are allowing average yards running but are really tough in the red zone. You look at game scores and if our offense scores over 20 points a game this year which is very average, we would have won possibly 5 more games this year. I was telling a fellow fan earlier, if you could merge our defense with the Texan’s offense we’d have a superbowl contender. Maybe we should talk to them about a merger next year…

Or maybe they’ll just hire Rob Ryan as their new head coach.

BrownDawg1409 - December 16, 2010 reply

Changing HC with Holmgren still firmly entrenched at the helm providing purpose and direction is not the same as changing HC and front office personne. This would be very different from the HC changes in years past. If Holmgren decides to make that move I have no doubt this team will transition to a new staff seamlessly and the progress will absolutely continue.

Im not necessarily adverse to Mangini staying as long as Daboll goes…however, …we need to ask the question…can we do better than Mangini? I say we can, and I do believe a guy like Gruden would be better. .

Keeping him to maintain the the ‘staus quo’ and out of fear of ‘another change’ is not a consideration anymore.

… Any idea what the status is on one Bill Cowher? I’d love to have him spitting all over our sidelines and winning Super Bowls. Plus, the idea of the irony that would happen when he helps us crush the Steelers would just be ALL too sweet.

When were the rumors about him taking over? Was that before Holmgren took over or after? You’d have to believe with Holmgren and Heckert and the crazy stability we’ve got in the front office that this job looks a LOT better than when Savage and Kokinis were in control. Anyone think we can lure Cowher away from CBS (if he’s even still there anymore)?

shep615 - December 16, 2010 reply

I’d put the possibilities of Cowher coming here at somewhere around 0%.

why is that? He has worked for the Browns before. I doubt he would come here either, just curious why you think there’s no chance at all.

da36chamberz - December 17, 2010 reply

I think he wants to go to a team where he’d have more control than he would here.

Buckeye Brad - December 17, 2010 reply

The rumors I heard, when he was rumored to be coming here, were that he was more interested in Carolina, which is closer to his home.

This is the rumor here in Charlotte as well. I have heard in the past (not sure where) but he would not coach Cleveland out of respect for what he did in Pittsburgh. Which I think is a very stand up thing to do.

$$$>Respect, he would come for the right price and control

This is true too. I doubt any coach would tip his hand until the deal is inked.

DontCallMeJoey - December 17, 2010 reply

this is right. he’d work w/ heckert, for example (see: kevin colbert in pitt), as a personnel guy, but he’d never work for holmgren. no building would be big enough for those two egos.

I think he wants more power than he could get coming here. I think his next job, if there is one, would be GM/Coach. He’d be nothing more than a coach as long as the Walrus is here.

No thanks.

Great News – I hope Colt fares well in the cold weather and against nothing less than our entire division. What a great test! To steal from “The Matrix”; we will surely know if he is “The One” by seasons end.

DaveDawg09 - December 16, 2010 reply

I am very curious to see how he does in the cold. I also hope his ankle is in good shape.
Even though it doesn’t look like the weather will be terribly frigid in Cinci, the next 3 games will be interesting to see how he does in the cold weather (or winter weather if it snows, etc.).

we will surely know if he is "The One" by seasons end

I hope you are right, but I think folks need to be patient.
Keep in mind he is a rookie with about five weeks of experience in his entire NFL life practicing with a 1st string NFL team thrown into a trial by fire mid-season.
As long as he “holds his own” the next few weeks (manages the games well etc.), doesn’t put up really bad performances down the stretch hopefully they will stick with him starting next season and give him a chance to continue developing. It may take time to know "for sure he is ‘The One’ ".
(I’m sure I don’t need to go down the list of great QBs and their 1st season stats, etc…)
_

burntorangeandbrown - December 16, 2010 reply

you might be the last person I expected to post this, but I agree wholeheartedly.

I’d like to see them go with Colt next year regardless of how he finishes the season. The next 3 games would not eliminate him in my mind as a possible winning NFL QB even if the team loses all 3 games. I really don’t want to see the Browns having to draft another QB next year.

I think he’ll be fine in the cold, actually. A good challenge for him.

Fantastic. Now seriously, enough already. Can we just once this year go up against an inferior team and win handly? Of course it would be fun to upset the Steeler and Ravens, but c’mon, we should be able to be to win a thorough game against a team like Cincy.

I want the Browns to win, and for the 4th quarter to be garbage time. I don’t want to squeak by on Bengals mistakes, or win on final field, or (gulp) lose. Comments that I do not want to read in the instant reaction thread:

“A win is a win, no matter how ugly”
“Just goes to show that on any given Sunday”
“Everyone knew that the Bengals would blow it in the end”
“The Bengals were 2-11 coming in, but they’re actually much better than their record”
“Fire Daboll, now!”
“We always seem to play to the level of our opponents”
“Good teams win the close ones”
“Hey, they played the Saints tough too”
“No no, it was actually 60% Eric Wright’s fault, 15% Daboll’s fault, 12% McCoy’s fault, 10% the offensive line’s fault, and 3% the fans’ fault.”
“For the love of all that is holy, who is in charge of wrapping our QBs’ ankles?”
“Even Joe Thomas has a few bad games each year”
“This is why Phil Dawson is our MVP”
“A win over the Steelers or Ravens will balance out this game”
“Wow, relax, the sky is not falling, it was just one game”

dgcambridge - December 16, 2010 reply

Cannot figure out where you are coming from dg – there are no teams significantly inferior to the Browns. The Bengals have much more physical talent than we do. A first overall pick at QB, prolly 3 WRs better than our best, a TE that can both block and catch, some beastie kind of LBs. I will be more than happy with an ugly win, and feel the only reason we have a better record than the Bungles is that Eric and staff have done a better job of keeping the troups together.

realmccoy - December 16, 2010 reply

Is this true? I’m not talking about loose talent – I mean the team as a whole, including the coaching staff. Is it not signficantly better than any team?

Just breaking the league into three tiers: bottom feeders, the great middle, and contenders: have we not moved up to the middle over the course of the last 18 months?

dgcambridge - December 16, 2010 reply

Just breaking the league into three tiers: bottom feeders, the great middle, and contenders: have we not moved up to the middle over the course of the last 18 months?

Perhaps for a bit there…however I believe at this point we sit firmly in the upper echelon of bottom feeders

I’d say we are one molecule into the great middle… but I may be sticking my neck out way too far on this.

I suppose…I guess it depends on how many teams you decide to put in each tier.

I think we are outplaying our talent level and we have a good foundation to build on, we just need a few great players.

Agree. I also think we need a good, experienced, and proven offensive minded guy for our OC position. There isn’t a doubt in my mind that Mangini and Ryan could come up with all kinds of great defensive schemes with average players, but they are lacking that knowledge on the offensive side. Daboll is learning, but I just don’t think he’s going to make the cut. I’m not sure who is available, but it would be nice to replace him with a person of strong offensive knowledge to balance out our coaching.

I would like to replace Daboll as well, but it’s hard to think of someone who meets all of those qualifications who also would fit what Mangini and Ryan do.

I would be fine with a younger guy. The big things for me are:

-He would have to outperform Daboll, especially in the passing game and in the overall cohesion of the offense. Plays should set up other plays, adjustments should be ready to go. If you run X play, you know the defense will likely respond by going to A, B, or C. You have D, E, and F ready to go based on how they adjust, and you repeat this cycle ad nauseum. You either set up tendencies and break them, or you must totally lack tendencies. We don’t really do either.

-He would have to work with Mangini, Ryan and their vision of a team. An offense affects a defense, a defense affects an offense. Mangini talks about this all the time in press conferences, it’s very important to him that the team function in a synergistic fashion.

Anyone who can do those two things would be an upgrade and would lead to stability in my eyes.

Plays should set up other plays, adjustments should be ready to go. If you run X play, you know the defense will likely respond by going to A, B, or C. You have D, E, and F ready to go based on how they adjust, and you repeat this cycle ad nauseum.

You can do that? It’s not against the rules?

Perhaps Daboll has actually read the rules. I have not.

I agree. I would also like someone who has been an OC or called the plays before. That is why my vote would go for Gil Haskell. If he can work with the Mangini aspect, I think it would be great. He has experience as an OC and calling plays. Plus, he learned under a great Offensive playcaller…

and he already knows the players, the culture, the philosophy … and where the bathrooms are.

haha. I agree with this. as long as he can work with mangini and what mangini will want to do on Offense, I am all for it. I think this one is actually really likely.

lets not start talking about “oh, the bengals have talent”. They have been flat out awful this year. every team in the nfl has some measure of talent. this isn’t fantasy FB, this is a real game and in real games, the bengals are imploding. You are looking at this almost as if they were a fantasy team. you can point at loose talent on any team but that team as a whole is just not to good.

Funny enough, you aren’t the only one to overrate the Bungles because of loose talent. vegas, usually being smart, for a while was giving them very generous odds (so people betting against them have had a lot of success). And since there is a good amount of Vegas/Fantasy crossover, there may have been some influence b/c of loose talent.

bross09 - December 16, 2010 reply

They have more “talent” at the glamour positions, we are much better everywhere else. McCoy might be better than Palmer right now.

Roger Dorn - December 16, 2010 reply

Palmer has looked terrible this year, no doubt

Western Reserve - December 17, 2010 reply

I don’t know, I like our team in the trenches overall, but Cincy has a few brutes in that area as well.

Like who?

Western Reserve - December 18, 2010 reply

Not really sure who they are, just my observation of their defensive front from the first time around. They seemed like a typical, hard-nosed, AFC North team to me. I know Hillis still went for over a hundred yards, but I still thought it was hard fought, we just were better and got a pretty good offensive line ourselves.

Remember, also, in those days, Cincy actually had expectations for themselves. They weren’t yet the disaster they have become.

It was hard fought because they loaded up 8 men in the box and had their LBs focus on hillis. their young LBs are actually decent, but their D-Line has definitely underperformed

Domata Peko? I have always thought he is a decent player. The problem is that D-Line has been flat out awful. they rank 32nd in power rank and 24th in stuffed rank on football outsiders. basically, they have gotten manhandled at the LOS and not gotten any push.

This is where I’m at. I’m not a Mangini-hater, but can’t agree that he’s willing a bunch of no-talent players to this level of competiveness.

dgcambridge - December 17, 2010 reply

"Fire Daboll, now!"

Now, you know someone will say this unless we win 55-0.

Daboll is no ‘scapegoat.’

I’ll just go ahead and say it now, despite the slight possibility that we win 55-0. Fire Daboll.

55-0!? if we don’t put up 100 the entire offense should be cut.

Holgren knows how to caoch. Fire Mangina and let Holgren start caoching!!

Daballs and Mangina belong over at cleveland.com, not here.

Your /sarc meter is off…get that thing calibrated

It doesn’t work so well at 6 in the morning. If sarc was a woman I’d be shooting pool with a rope.

Rec for ‘caoch’. Nice touch!

well played. rec.

discoinferno083 - December 16, 2010 reply

"A win is a win, no matter how ugly"

BrownDawg1409 - December 16, 2010 reply

dgcam is PRECISELY thinking what i’m thinking.

no more excuses or rationalizing.
Good teams don’t do that.

Good teams don’t do that.

But we aren’t commenting on those teams.

Seriously, though, I think that given what they have been able to accomplish given the tools in their box, the Browns are definitely not a bad team.

By all means, these last three games all need to be lopsided games in our favor.

what?

When did this place turn into cleveland.com?

Yeah – they are just ridiculously, stupidly optimistic over there.
You’d think us DBN cynics would know better.

burntorangeandbrown - December 16, 2010 reply

What’s the matter, golan? Think we’re all just stupidly optimistic and/or high as a kite on the vapors of Jake’s demotion?

I think it’s the fact that somebody writes their opus on whether or not mangini deserves to be fired in every single thread. Couple that with the “so-and-so sucks RAGE” and the “fire daboll!” and the ridiculous swing in attitude after every game, and I definitely see where he’s coming from. I mean, we’re posting rumors that Mangini has already been told he’s fired? In a thread about Colt McCoy? seriously?

I think it completely natural that attitudes swing every other game when following a team this schizophrenic. I mean beat the Pats and Saints and then lose to Buffalo? What could be more inconsistent than that? People gotta ask themselves: “would the real Cleveland Browns please stand up?”

Exactly what I was talking about.

No, I love well placed optimism. When I posted there were something like 10 comments, and 9 were of the FIRE MANGINA variety.

I mis-interpreted then, sorry. I do agree the ‘fire Mangini’ hysteria, etc. gets a little old.

burntorangeandbrown - December 16, 2010 reply

Ah, understood. I don’t know, I’ve been assuming that while annoying, the increased craziness is an understandably direct result of last week’s frustrating stenchfest. Time for Colt to help us put that game in the rearview mirror!

I think it’s the pent up frustration combined with the growing popularity of the site. More and more people are signing up and commenting, at least it appears that way. They are doing so without understanding how we try to keep things here.

If you think it’s bad now, just wait until we become a playoff contender.

Simmsinns - December 16, 2010 reply

yeah, I think the crap-fest last sunday combined with what appears to be many more commenters isn’t working out well.

“signing up and commenting … without understanding how we try to keep things here”

The arrogance of this comment is laughable.

burntorangeandbrown - December 16, 2010 reply

It’s not about arrogance. I wasn’t trying to come across that way at all. I’m just talking about keeping the discussion thoughtful, intelligent, and civil. You seem like a regular visitor and commenter here now, you should know what I’m talking about.

Simmsinns - December 16, 2010 reply

Yes, I know where you’re coming from.
I just thought your choice of words came across as sounding a bit arrogant (probably should have worded my response as such – sorry, didn’t really mean to attack you).

burntorangeandbrown - December 16, 2010 reply

its actually very accurate and not arrogant at all. we try to keep this site running smoothly and intelligently. people that have been around a long time also get blasted when they make ridiculous or inflammatory remarks. its what makes this site great.

If people do break the parameters of the site, they are beaten severely with a wet noodle and then dunked. If they take a gulp of pool water, bonus for us.

Peer pressure for the win!

When I first signed up I did receive the wet noodle initiation and got dunked once or twice.
Luckily for me I’m a good swimmer.

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Just because we’ve been doing it this way forever it doesn’t make it right! I kid. However fresh ideas are always good because there are some stale opinions here and homers among us as well.

fresh ideas – yes
raving lunatics – no (no offense Moon)

Right after we made the playoffs after beating the Saints and NE and then earned the first pick after losing to the Jets and Jags. Or maybe SBNation has been running extra ads out on the Interwebs?

browndawgbacker - December 16, 2010 reply

I’m all for another year of Mangini. Let Daboll go mainly because I think we can do better and I’m not for settling on just OK. Glad Colt will play Sunday so we don’t have to argue over who sucks least – Delhomme or Wallace any longer.

I’m all for another year of Mangini.

I don’t know…I just…don’t know…yet.

He really has to make some things happen these last 3 games for me.

browndawgbacker - December 16, 2010 reply

I can understand that totally. I just fear who we may replace him with will cause another “rebuilding season” that last 5 more years! lol

Naw. Not with Holmgren at the helm. There would be no ‘starting over’ all over again. Remember most of the time in years past we were replacing front office guys as well…

johnnyphoenix - December 17, 2010 reply

But if Holmgren were to can Mangini because he wanted “to go in a different direction” I would expect that there would be more than a little bit of a resemblance to previous rebuilds.

I want ten more years of Mangenius. Mangini… not so much.

Yay! Great news.

emily522 - December 16, 2010 reply

Magic 8-ball told you so. ;)

BrownDawg1409 - December 16, 2010 reply

What a blessing for the Browns and their fans. First of all, Mangini´s announcement should be a welcome relief. I am a Mangini fan and I sincerely doubted that Mangini would make this statement this year or even next. Simply committing to a starter makes him appear less of a F*Tard, and more of a normal coach that believes that it is better to have a starting QB. Secondly, the information we will get on Colt will be key for next year´s draft. If he is lucky enough to finish the season here will be his 8 starts. At Pittsburgh, At New Orleans, New England, J-E-T-S, Jacksonville, Cincy, Pitt, and Baltimore. Prolly 7 of the best 10 teams in the NFL, terrible weather – if we can´t evaluate him after this – there is no hope anyway. My feel is that we are out of the Luck sweepstakes, and that Mallet is just too much of a statue to gamble on.

realmccoy - December 16, 2010 reply

I agree about the draft. Not a good year for us to try for a QB that way. I think McCoy should start next year regardless. Free agency next year is a great big question mark but I’m pretty certain we won’t see any big name, young QBs coming our way through free agency.

I am less concerned with Mallet’s mobility and more concerned with his intangibles. I think we aren’t in position to draft Luck.

where does gabbert project? i think he looks like a stud pro.

my belief: we should select mitch mustain (usc) in the 7th round … sort of a matt cassel strategy (except mustain has way more game than cassel ever had in high school or college). colt’s the #1, but develop a guy w/ good skills and maybe he can step in for an injured colt at some point and/or turn into trade bait.

Gabbert looks like a potential pro prospect to me. Some have him high this year (I think McShay said he has him 2nd if he were to declare now) and others would like to see him go back to school and continue to develop.

If it doesn’t cost a pick in the first 3 rounds, I am all for picking a QB. Anyone with upside who seems like he wouldn’t be a complete waste of roster space.

findlaybrownslover - December 16, 2010 reply

its about time he told us what we already knew. thinking he is just as fed up with delhomme’s shitty play as the rest of us are. and as far as the speculation goes for daboll being canned at years end, i see it coming too. hell maybe we will get garrett from the cowboys?! j/k

We have speculated about Garrett in our office. That crazy owner of theirs might just go for a big name instead… Fischer, Chuckie, Cowher, etc. and I wouldn’t mind Garrett at all. I’d like to see a talented, young, hungry head coach (please not McDaniels though).

TheDriveStillHurts - December 16, 2010 reply

I’d like to see a talented, young, hungry head coach

We’ve never tried that before.

We had a hungry head coach in Crennel. 1 out of 3 just doesn’t cut it I guess….

This made me laugh.

if garrett doesn’t stick w/ the cowboys he’ll be a head coach somewhere, not browns OC.

No, to instituting a losing season from the get go. Yes, to Colt McCoy being a by-product thereof.

mooncamping - December 16, 2010 reply

I must have read this ten times on three different days, and I still don’t get it.

DaveDawg09 - December 18, 2010 reply

He doesn’t want a suck season where Colt has to be the starter, but it’s good that we got Colt McCoy, what he has shown so far, from it.

Villeslgr - December 19, 2010 reply

is there ever a time where the answer to “should we institute a losing season from the get go” is “yes”?

Who will be our head coach next year? Mangini? Holmgren? Gruden? Rob Ryan?

If Rob Ryan takes a head coaching job would Jerome Henderson become our defensive coordinator?

Could Brad Childress be brought in as offensive coordinator?

Bumblyjack - December 16, 2010 reply

was this a joke?

Just my opinion, but I don’t think Rob Ryan is going anywhere as a head coach just yet. There are a lot more desirable choices ahead of him at this time and only a handful of openings. I would be more worried about him following Mangini if he goes away.

Honestly, even though my opinion has been down hill about Mangini and Co. lately, I don’t think this team needs a coaching shake up. They need coaching consistency. Half the problem over the last 10 years is coaches, staff etc are all 3 and out. The team follows suit on the field.

CW78 - December 16, 2010 reply

I like your take on Ryan leaving with Mangini. Defensively that could be a nightmare.

my biggest concern with rob ryan is jets defensive coordinator.

Excellent! The holiday celebrations are now officially in full swing!

brownsfan122907 - December 16, 2010 reply

This is probably the best news that I’ve heard all week, that plus finishing all my finals makes today already a good one.
Now lets just go beat the Bungles. Don’t underestimate anyone.

Simmsinns - December 16, 2010 reply

hey guys, been reading this site for quite awhile but have never posted before. just wondering why everyone is so happy to hear colt is coming back. it’s pretty obvious that he can play in the nfl and that he will probably be given a chance to be the starter next year so why risk an injury at the end of the year when we all know the season is over. from what i have seen of him i think with proper coaching he can be a franchise quarterback but i see no sense in throwing him in there now when all these games decide for us is draft position. i would hate to see him have a career threatening injury in a game that doesn’t really matter. i kn ow that it’s all division games against rivals but why not put in wallace for the rest of the year and regroup in the offseason.

How else are we going to find out if he can play in the cold and snow?

Steve n NC - December 16, 2010 reply

Madden.

Speaking of Madden, whatever happened with the Madden championship that was televised a couple years back

Steve n NC - December 16, 2010 reply

Besides wanting to evaluate McCoy more, the ultimate goal is to win. And, unless you have a first round bye clinched or something, you don’t worry about playing starters due to health…people get hurt, but you can’t play scared.

Chris Pokorny - December 16, 2010 via mobile reply

You can’t be afraid of injury, and if you have the chance to develop a QB, that’s more valuable than any draft pick out there. You have to look at these things as opportunities, not play afraid of failue. Fear of failure is a losing attitude from the front office on down.

Based on the logic of protecting franchise players, we should bench Joe Thomas for the remainder of the season.

elsandito - December 16, 2010 reply

We should never play JT, just have him work concessions serving pancakes to unsuspecting fans of enemy teams.

Screw the fans, go for the coaching staff.

Put him in a bubble and don’t let him out.

i’m sorry … it’s “the moops”…

REC

Buckeye Brad - December 18, 2010 reply

He should start for the reasons stated above. Plus this works as a confidence builder for Colt. He’ll be playing the 3 teams he could be facing the most in his career.

Glad to hear McCoy is starting the rest of the way…frankly I’m amazed Magini announced it this early. It’ll be nice to see Delhomme where he belongs – on the sidelines.

da36chamberz - December 16, 2010 reply

Yah for Colt. If anything, we’ll know for sure if he opens 2011 as the starter after playing every team in our division to end the year.

Weighing in on this coaching stuff.

What I hope Holmgren does is evaluate the way the team has played since Mangini took over. Crennel’s teams were a joke in every sense of the word. Undisciplined on both sides of the ball, tons of penalties, sloppy execution.

What I’ve seen, if nothing else, in Mangini’s tenure is a back-to-basics approach. We’re not going to run any trick plays until we stop having 4 false starts in every offensive drive. To hell with trying corner blitzes. Our corners can’t cover that well. Things of that nature.

I think, just like any second year player, when you’ve got a coach in his second year you want to see an overall improvement in the way the team plays. To me, the 4 game winning streak at the end of last season was a mirage. We ran the ball well against 3 of the worse run Ds in the league and our offense looked HORRIBLE in the win against the Steelers (coincidentally, the best defensive game we’ve played in YEARS). Right now, I’m looking at a team that doesn’t have a ton of dumb penalties and seems to be losing more on conservative game planning and a severe lack of talent, but we’re most definitely playing better.

I think there’s a ceiling for Mangini that’s much lower than most other HC candidates (i.e. he ain’t taking us to the Super Bowl), but to see improvement and a product being put on the field that isn’t embarassing (last two weeks notwithstanding) is a sign of progress. You look at the beginning of the year and everyone was saying they’d be happy with an 8-8 year. Don’t let a stinker against the Bills sway that. We’re still looking at 8-8 (we win the next two weeks and the Steelers lock up the 2 seed; we’ll beat their backups in wk17) and a much improved team than 2010’s version.

If we finish out 7-9 or 8-8, that’s progress.

Hopefully Holmgren’s not blinded by what he was able to do his first year with the Seahawks after they missed the playoffs the previous 10 seasons.

Michael Jay - December 16, 2010 reply

We blitz our DBs a lot.

We’re not going to run any trick plays until we stop having 4 false starts in every offensive drive.

so, you’re saying you didn’t watch the new orleans or new england games?

North Coast Flea - December 16, 2010 reply

So I read the title and yelled out f^%& yeah.

It might be my 18 year old optimism, but I really think we are heading in the right direction. Now, I know I’m the youngest person on this blog, and I haven’t really paid attention to the early expansion era browns before 2006, but I think we could become a contender W/ a little added depth at WR, and CB. I think we could become just like the glory days when all we did was win.

brownsboy14 - December 16, 2010 via mobile reply

No worries man, I dunno if you’re the youngest but if so then not by much. I’ve only been 20 for a couple of weeks and I didn’t start consistently following until Charlie Frye was drafted (maybe the year before- don’t remember for sure). There are other youngsters on here too, so you’re not alone.

And I’m pretty optimistic, so you aren’t alone there either :)

shep615 - December 16, 2010 reply

how does being 20 feel?

bross09 - December 16, 2010 reply

like you’re still a year too young.

I’m 21, and probably unreasonably optimistic as well. Judging from how some others come off on here, I should enjoy this attitude while it lasts!

Legoman0721 - December 16, 2010 via mobile reply

I’m 36 and feel certain we’ll win a Super Bowl before I’m 40. How’s that for optimism from an old dude?

Wait, you’re seriously only 36?

yeah. not sure how to take that…

I’m only 19 and ready to graduate with my two-year degree in spring.

BrownDawg1409 - December 17, 2010 reply

Wait… Really? What program are you graduating from?

shep615 - December 17, 2010 reply

like you’re still a year too young.

Only some people feel like that. Not ones who want to keep their liver functioning properly. No offense, everyone else.

without getting into a huge discussion, alcohol, like most things, is perfectly fine in moderation, and won’t kill your liver.

Quite. I do understand this and that the Liver does regenerate and control poisons through your body.

Just, I see absolutely no benefit to alcohol. All I see are extreme potential negatives. Best course of action is to just stay away from the crap entirely. It’ll save my money and possibly lives. You never know.

well…its better than cocaine…

Or less overtly damaging, at least.

This is true.

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue….

that is a completely respectable position.

Fully agree, as long as it doesn’t lead you to slag off unnecessarily on the drinking class. To each his or her own.

Yeah, I don’t mind teetotalers, so long as they keep their opinions to themselves.

I’ll drink to that!

I don’t want to get all Dr. Phil on you, but it seems someone near, or close, to you has drank much more than they should. Something seems to really give you a bad taste in your mouth about alcohol.

If I’m wrong, I completely apologize. Just what I’m gathering from ya.

Oh no, I mean my family drinks, it’s fine. I just like to think I’m above it. That I don’t have to drink because my parents did, because I’m a teenager in college. I wanna be better than that, you know? I just feel I’m too smart to fall into that trap. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone. I just obviously have a huge bias to alcohol but do understand both sides of the coin.

I just obviously have a huge bias to alcohol but do understand both sides of the coin.

I’ll drink to that!

I typed the same thing above before reading this. great minds think alike, I guess.

Are you talking about drinking or boozing?

I can see where you’re coming from, both my parents were alcoholics when I was young. My dad still is while my mom gave it up almost entirely to the point where I drink more than she does and I rarely drink at all. I do like me some tequila though.

why is drinking something to be looked down upon? I think you’re grouping binge drinking with social drinking, and I don’t think that’s an accurate thing to do.

I lump all drinking together, because alcohol is always the common denominator. Just like drinking in general, I see no positive in social drinking either. I mean, what’s the point? I don’t need a buzz to have fun with some guys going out.

Once again, I’m not trying to attack those that do consume alcohol. I don’t want to do that. I’m just trying to further state my own opinion but it’s coming across as stepping on toes.

The point is that you keep saying you don’t need a buzz, and better than that, or trap. All drinking isn’t about getting a buzz. Sure you’ll get one but everyone doesn’t drink specifically for that reason.

Some people enjoy the taste of a good drink of beer etc., and aren’t looking to get buzzed just to have fun.

But I’m not criticizing you for your opinion just trying to explain how it might be taken the wrong due to confusion.

Ah, well. To answer that, I’ve obviously smelled the aroma of beer, seen people’s reactions to the taste when they first drink and heard opinions on beer in general. Nothing about it excites me, I see no benefit.

Don’t wanna sound like a jackass or a noble. I understand their are good people who drink, not trying to label. I just have my own understandings that help me in my stance.

I think the thing that may be coming off as being a bit “holier-than-thou” is that you keep referring to it as a trap, or saying you’re better than that, which implies there is something inherently bad about it or about the people that partake in it. I’m not saying that is your stance, just trying to clarify what it may sound like to other people.

Again, just to be perfectly clear, I’m not judging your decision in any way. It is a perfectly valid position to take.

Ugh, I’ve been watching this and avoiding, but here goes.

I just have my own understandings that help me in my stance

What is your “stance” exactly? I’m still trying to figure that out.
_

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

That I think alcohol brings only negatives. I just see no positives that come from me drinking, regardless of the situation. Might as well stay away from it. I see no benefit.

Well, I could be really annoying and continue this way OT thread by mentioning that many studies have shown that people who drink a glass of red wine every day actually live longer than people who don’t drink, but I’m not going to do so because it would probably just perpetuate this OT thread ad nauseum.

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Whoops – sorry, meant to keep that thought in my head but accidentally hit the Post button, sorry folks…

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Whoops – sorry, meant to keep that thought in my head but accidentally hit the Post button, sorry folks…

See, now I have every right to call you a jackass right now. Like I said, I’m not trying to step on toes, this subject is touchy and the way I look at it, I can understand how it may rub someone the wrong way. No need to be a dick though.

I understand the studies, I understand both sides. BUT I know 100% that I will never receive a DUI. I will never pull a Donte Stallworth. That can all happen from just one drink. Possibly from that one drink I would take to live longer. Not. Worth. It.

I’m sorry everyone. I am seriously not trying to be this holier than thou thing. I’m sorry.

BUT I know 100% that I will never receive a DUI. I will never pull a Donte Stallworth. That can all happen from just one drink.

This is all kinds of false. Unless you are a 2 foot tall primordial dwarf even 1 shot of everclear isn’t going to make you blow a .08 or slow your reaction time enough to hit someone in a crosswalk.

yep. you’re right on all counts.

I’ll drink to that ;)

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Eh, yes and no. I was writing a bit of a hyperbole but there are situations that could make it true. Certain wines have a huge alcohol content for example. FOURLOKO has the alcohol content of 6 beers. That’s f*cking ridiculous. Also, maybe that one drink leads to 2 or 3… or 10?

Slippery slope fallacy!

when most people say one drink, they aren’t referring to 4loco. also, wine has nowhere near the alcohol content of everclear, and a shot of that won’t get you drunk.

Your overall point is still right, if you don’t drink anything you can’t get into that kind of trouble. It just takes more than one drink.

Of course. Like I said, I did state quite a hyperbole.

It would be ridiculous to consider Fourloko “one drink”. Thats like saying “oh, a 40 of Malt Liquor is just 1 drink” or “A bottle of boones farm is just one drink”

Also, maybe that one drink leads to 2 or 3… or 10?

…if you have no self-control. Now that is not an alcohol issue but your own personal issue. I can have one drink and leave it at that.

6 beers is 6 drinks, not one drink.

Not trying to pressure you in to starting this, BTW, just saying that some people can drink in moderation or even get drunk in a responsible, not-too-health-damaging manner.

If you never want to touch the stuff, don’t. I used to think that as well. Alcohol had been demonized and made far less attractive to me because I’d only seen peer-pressuring, infantile, unintelligent douchebags drink and I wanted more than anything to not be like them. They almost had to do it to feel good about themselves, which is more tragic than fun, cool, or appealing. I also didn’t like the idea of damaging my still-developing brain.

But to say there is nothing positive in it for anyone seems like you are stepping on toes. To say there’s nothing positive in it for you doesn’t. Actions that may harm the person in question are a personal choice, and we should all respect each others’ choices. Actions that harm or could potentially harm others such as alcohol-fueled physical abuse or drunk driving are illegal for a reason.

All that from one drink…lightweight!

I have had great dinners a good wine has enhanced and great conversations that may not have happened without a glass or two of libations. In vino veritas after all. However you have a good point and many folks can’t handle their alcohol. In Italy they enjoy drinking but look down on being drunk. I think that makes sense.

Thank you. And I have indeed been around those that were drinking alcohol and a great time ensued. Not saying it’s all negative in general, but it’s all negative to me.

I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM ACTUALLY AGREEING WITH SB. CRAP!

champion64 - December 18, 2010 reply

Are these people drinking Natty Ice or Great Lakes Christmas Ale? Because some beer is delicious.

Wine, too. And Bourbon.

ummmmmm, Makers Mark ;-)

doggrad87 - December 19, 2010 reply

That’s my jam. I also like some single barrel stuff but obviously that’s different every time.

Some people enjoy the taste of a good drink of beer etc., and aren’t looking to get buzzed just to have fun.

I love me some Samuel Adams. Plus, there is nothing like watching a browns game with your father, drinking some good quality beer. There is something nice about that sort of experience that is indescribable.

No worries, you don’t need to drink to have a good time, but sometimes it’s fun. You don’t need to do anything to have a good time, but sometimes things are fun.

Sometimes a beer is just a tasty, relaxing beverage.

Well, to each their own I guess. Doesn’t offend me, I enjoy a good beer, or two, or six on a friday night.

like, say, tonight for instance. thanks for the grand idea, Kimble.

I’ll drink to that!

I just like to think I’m above it.

I think this has applied to more than drinking in some instances.

DaveDawg09 - December 18, 2010 reply

True SB, although you, actually, might be one of those few who might benefit from drinking occasionally.

johnnyphoenix - December 17, 2010 reply

I’ll take the malfunctioning liver, thank you.

haha. I was asking b/c I turn 20 in a couple weeks so I just wondered if it was anything special.

HA, I knew you had to be older than TRSS. Just had a gut feeling.

I think he is the youngest that I know of here.

I think there are a lot around my age (19-21 range). I know there is SB, NTN, Shep, and I am pretty sure Simms

Yeah. I was rippin’ on him over a subject, then I found out he was only 15.
HAHA He’s in love with Brady Quinn.

awwww his first mancrush…how cute!

Brownie's Year - December 18, 2010 reply

Are you sure it’s his first?

Whoa, trss us only 15. I figured him to be in his 20s. Color me surprised that he is younger than me.

brownsboy14 - December 18, 2010 via mobile reply

*is. Wow my iPod keyboard sucks.

brownsboy14 - December 18, 2010 via mobile reply

Yo dawg.

forgot about you too. I was thinking about people who have posted recently and you haven’t so you kinda slipped my mind.

I tend to stay away for a few days after losses, especially when they are as pathetic as last week’s game.

I don’t blame you. I just finished finals early and it was tempting…

20 feels like 19. Haha… Weird thing is 19 felt more like 17 than 18. I was allowed to start smoking my pipe (legally) when I turned 18… Then shortly after turning 19 I met my now fiancée who has a big problem with smoking of any kind (Grandpa died of lung cancer from smoking), so I’m not allowed to smoke anymore.

21 might feel a little different, but not by much. I’ll let you know about that one when I get there tho ;)

shep615 - December 17, 2010 reply

cool. I was just curious of there was any special feeling since my B-Day is coming up soon. thats nice though that you met your fiancee so early.

I say this as a twenty year pipe smoker…. be glad you got out when you did.

We all know it’s a different pipe that you smoke, one that doesn’t give you lung cancer.

This

would explain a lot

Ah, now I get the joke.

I didn’t mean crack, but ok.

I knew what you meant…I was taking another turn with it. I didn’t wanna put a pic link of where you were going with it…LOL

Not true at all. I haven’t smoked anything other than tobacco since college.

since college

So you did the continuing education thing too, eh?
Yeah, I’m like you – didn’t graduate til later in life.

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Can’t find a reliable source either, eh?

Oh definitely, it’s something I’m not TOO sad to see go… I wasn’t a regular smoker anyway. I would smoke maybe 3 or 4 bowls a week at most. I kinda miss it cause it was pretty relaxing and a good way to unwind, but I don’t miss the potential negative effects of it.

Overall, fiancee/wife > pipe smoking :)

shep615 - December 17, 2010 reply

Also, kudos to the photographer. That’s an awesome picture. Love also seeing the might that is Evan Moore as compared to two NFL QBs. Dude’s huge.

I thought you said you dont drink?

NM, your post was blank when I typed that.

It’s nice to be excited about a QB

Roger Dorn - December 17, 2010 reply

This should be a good test for Colt as a long term starter. His last starts had a lot less pressure and expectations then there are now.

HenryDawg - December 17, 2010 via mobile reply

I’d have to disagree with you on this. The pressure to win is always there. The pressure is not as great because making the playoffs aren’t on the line.

WilliamL - December 17, 2010 reply

The thing I like about McCoy is I don’t think external pressure really phases him much.
He came on the scene with his own expectation – to win every game he plays in.
Any pressure he feels was put there by himself to that end. The kid is solid as a rock mentally / emotionally.
(btw, ask anyone who followed him closely at Texas – I guarantee you will hear the same sentiment)

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Every snap in practice and every second of Colt’s time is filled with the pressure of his career. The playoffs don’t really add much IMO.

NTN look what you’ve done!

I know, sorry, I couldn’t help it.

the worst is that it started with:

without getting into a huge discussion…

did you not see the name on the door?

DBN – Where not getting into a huge discussion is a huge discussion.

Hitler was a drinker and a pipe smoker.

What type of pipe though?

every type.

Why do we have to be the only SBN post with Hitler conversations? Seriously? When you Google Dawgs by Nature one of the first things it has is the golans tag line. Looks awesome I’m sure for any Jewish fans thinking about joining.

When you Google Dawgs by Nature one of the first things it has is the golans tag line.

My work here is done.

Actually, I am currently on page 6 and have yet to see your tag. That was a hyperbole.

You are correct. I swear though for the last couple months it was the third link on there. I go through Google everyday and always chuckle when I see it because it’s so random.

Yeah, I’ve seen it there more than once. Usually in the two hole, just behind the main listing.

Dawgs By Nature Hitler search returns 831,000 results.

Bernie19Kosar - December 17, 2010 reply

Yeah, Hitler is far from random here.

I believe Hitler actually posts here, from the Island he lives on with JFK, Elvis, Amelia Earhart, and Biggie Smalls.

That’s one helluva Christmas party…

I hope Biggie and Hitler keep on opposite ends of the island. That could be a bad scene.

rebuilding year - December 18, 2010 reply

Hitler has to stay on the West Side away from Biggie’s turf

Tupac was Hitler.

Dawgs by Nature logical fallacy search returns about 29,400,000 results.

I blame bross.

Looks like “Hitler” has some catching up to do.

Why do you google DBN? Am I missing something?

hahaha

Actually, Goodwin’s law of nazi analogies states that

“As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”3 2 In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all online discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis.

TheDriveStillHurts - December 18, 2010 reply

Godwin’s law.

Hitler didn’t smoke. He also abolished smoking for pregnant women. Bad for the race. Damn socialist. I’d like to see them take my cigs from me. Heads would roll.

It’s like my wife saying she doesn’t want to fight and then teeing off on me.

Preaching to the choir on that one, my friend.

It’s basically saying I want to express my point and don’t need any feed back from you. I guess we are all guilty of it.

Yeah every time I’ve said that it ended in a huge discussion, such as the great physics debate after the Shipley hit.

yeah, that one was a doozie.

I never actually checked back to see how that one ended. I just decided it would be best to let it be.

I believe it ended with the “my daddy knows more than your daddy” move when I went to the Physics PhD here at CU that agreed with me.

These threads with non-football related debates seem to grow the fastest, other than game threads.

Simmsinns - December 17, 2010 reply

I say we have a weekly OT thread. I’m serious. We could move all of the long, distracting threads into one giant overflow and keep football with football.

Also, why are there no more minion articles? Wasn’t that the whole premise of adding minions? So Chris didn’t do all the writing…? I know Ryan has personal matters that keep him sidelined and Rufio has school but B19K is regularly. He also had a few good series going and then he just hit the wall. What’s going on Matt?

Work pretty much. When I was laid up with my knee injury it was much easier.

Now with work, the time I used to commit to researching and writing a good article has disappeared. I wish I had more, I am going to really try and write a lot more around the time of the draft.

It is easy to pop on here for 10 minutes and post a few comments, but it seems that all I have time for.

Bernie19Kosar - December 17, 2010 reply

Plus, Call of Duty Black Ops.

Bernie19Kosar - December 17, 2010 reply

I’m a Halo kid, sorry.

Don’t realize that Activision has just had their developers repackage CoD 4 a few times, with minor tweaks, and then is selling the same crap back to you?

Every yearly edition of CoD is really no better than an expansion pack, except you by 3 to 6 times the cost.

No more an “expansion pack” than Halo 2 is to Halo 3.

I think you meant that the other way around.

Yeah, I’m certain you meant that the other way around.

I’m not even a major Halo fan, but that is not even remotely true. That comparison is entirely invalid. Not even at all close, really.
Halo 2 to Halo 3: threes years development time, entirely new graphics engine, drastic gameplay alterations
MW2 to BO: one year development time, slightly tweaked graphics engine, different killstreaks and weapons

Not to mention, all Treyarch has ever done is rehash the games already created by the developers formally known as Infinity Ward. Again, just changing the weapons and killstreaks.

Killstreaks are also like cancer to the FPS genre, yet the only reason these CoD games are as successful as they are. Some joker can hop on his console and get some kills without dying… then control a BMG from a chopper and mo-down 20 or so red triangles and feel good about himself and the 45 – 1 k/d ratio. The less skill involved the more the copies they will sell.

Thank god that Infinity Ward went under so we don’t have to deal with the endless hype up marketing campaign bombarding the television and internet by Activision. This time around they might have to actually take more than a year to repackage this garbage again.

I think you’re just trying to rationalize the $60 you spent on the CoD 4.0.2 by degrading a completely different game, so you don’t feel ripped off as you truly were.

I recently tried playing MW2 online, couldn’t deal with the 12 year olds hurling slurs at everyone.

For the record, both Call of Duty and Halo have the extremely annoying 12 year olds problem.

Now, Star Craft 2 is a game that has an amazing online experience without the moronic juveniles.

Yes, I especially like it when the Mom hears the 12 year old yelling profanities and you hear him getting his ass beat over his mic.

I haven’t gotten Starcraft 2. I really want to though. Starcraft was such a fun game…and Jim Raynor is a total badass.

If you think Raynor was a badass after the first one… you haven’t seen anything yet.

The campaign is awesome, and I’m not even a big RTS fan.

I think its kinda funny to hear some kid who hasn’t hit puberty yet telling me how bad I suck.

Kimble_79 - December 20, 2010 reply

I actually haven’t bought a CoD for a long time…But I don’t feel it is any more of an “expansion pack” than a lot of sequel games out there.

I do hate killstreaks like you. And I have never been a fan of the Treyarch games. I disagree about the fact that its essentially an expansion, but I agree with you on the other stuff you are saying.

I completely stand by my statement that they just repackage the same garbage 1 year later then call a whole new game to justify the $60 price tag. And people eat it up… hence the record breaking sales.

Star Craft 2 and Halo 3 are actually prime examples of real sequels, and further the point that the yearly new CoD is nothing more than an expansion pack worth of tweaks.

Have you actually played the the Black Ops? To me, it’s a hell of a lot different.

Yes, I have. Not a lot, but a fair amount. If new weapons, maps, killstreaks and campaign (the same stuff you’d see in a $10-20 expansion) are considered a lot too you, than that’s the case. But outside of that, it’s really not all the different.

I also have a ton of hours on MW2 (this game was awful, not sure why I put up with it) on PSN. And even more in CoD 4 on XBL. I spend a lot of time gaming, FPS games are my personal favorite, and the fact remains that Activion has been simply reselling slightly tweaked versions of the same game every year. They know how to market it as well.

They took one from Apple’s book, in that your products don’t need to be good to sell well, you just need to know how to market them with hype.

Sounds like you never liked the game to begin with. And if new weapons, maps, killstreaks and campaign doesn’t seem like a new game to you, I can’t imagine why you’d ever play any sequel.

I loved Modern Warfare. Hated Modern Warfare 2. Love Black Ops. I think they play much different.

Bernie19Kosar - December 19, 2010 reply

I really like MW2, but that was the first of the franchise I’ve played. I like Black Ops, but preferred MW2.

I have played the game. I’ve already told you this. Maybe you never played the game to begin with. You really resort to he-said-she-said nonsense here?

New weapons, maps, and all that jazz are available for $10 in Battlefield: Bad Campany 2 – Vietnam. That’s an expansion pack.

2 entirely new campaigns are available for $20 in Grand Theft Auto 4: Episodes from Liberty City (Lost and the Damned & Ballad of Gay Tony).

As an avid gamer who likes to get my money worth, I expect more from a $60 title. How about a new game engine from the ground up? Here’s an idea, about actually creating a new game rather than tweaking the old one?

For a specific example of how this can be done on an actual CoD title, compare and contrast CoD 2 to CoD 4. That’s a sequel, before IW sold its soul to the devil (Activision) they actually made good games that improved drastically as they went along.

Sounds like you never liked the game to begin with.

I guess when I said game I meant franchise, but that wasn’t the part you misunderstood anyway.

He-said-she-said? What?

I get it. You don’t like Black Ops. I’m not going to persuade you to like it.

My bad, I misread your post. I thought I read that you were saying I never actually played, which wasn’t the case. I apologize.

You know they will never do that unless they need to to make money. I tend to agree with you but it’s going to remain the same as long as they make money without doing it.

You’re right, it’s sad the greedy bastards have no dignity. The worst part is that they break the sales record the past two years they released one.

(The hold this record in part because Halo isn’t multiplatform.) But people eating this crap up, it encourages them and others. The overall quality of video games has gone down significantly over the past 5 years.

I would love a main campaign that was 20+ hours long. I would pay for a new version for that.

Instead what you get is a 4 hour campaign, filled to the brim with explosions, and over-complicated plot lines, likely in attempt to disguise how short and bad the story really is. Something even Micheal Bay would be embarrassed by.

But that’s what happens when you spend less than a year in development. They understand that their real money maker is the multiplayer too. How much of that year, I wonder, actually went into the campaign? Maybe 4-5 months at best.

that is fine. I respect your opinion and see where you are coming from, though I personally disagree.

Soo…. Did you buy it? It’s awesome.

Bernie19Kosar - December 19, 2010 reply

No. I played it at a friend’s place. Transfered my GT (same username) and played online for a couple hours. It’s really terrible.

If I wanted to play a good CoD game, I’d play CoD 2 (for PC) or CoD 4 (for PC or 360).

Or if I wanted to play a more current FPS, I could play Bad Company 2, which is easily the best non-scifi shooter of the past two years. Sadly Halo: Reach takes the cake overall only because Valve has neglected Half-Life for far too long.

I have something in the works but this thesis project is kinda taking up a lot of my time. April 1st or May 1st, depending on when my defense is.

Who is this that has stolen SBs log in?

I’d go along with the moderator being able to halt or delete long OT threads.
(unless perhaps they are just light hearted threads started by someone making a joke or pun…)

A couple of suggestions for ‘posting rules’:
- This board is about football first.
- Please avoid creating posts espousing opinions and personal beliefs on politics, religion, or other topics that are generally considered controversial / non-sports related topics.

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

We already have those rules, sometimes we just get caught up and choose not to follow them and then Chris, Brad, Bernie, etc. have to delete a thread and we get back to football.

Usually we do a decent job policing ourselves when we veer off topic.

off topic isn’t that bad, it’s “hatefully” off topic that gets us into trouble.

Yeah I don’t see the problem with an OT discussion.

I really like Delhomme as a person. Very humble man and professional.

Heavysoviet - December 17, 2010 reply

If only his talent/decision making skills in the pocket matched his character. Good guy by all accounts.

ouched - December 17, 2010 reply

Your sig sucks. Go Sharks!

Sorry!

Heavysoviet - December 17, 2010 reply

I agree with your signature. especially the Blues.

I like him on our bench and in practice mentoring McCoy. Alot.

That in itself, while expensive, is why I would like him around next year as well. Those who can’t do anymore, like Delhomme, teach .

Delhomme has experienced success in this league, and he is top-notch in terms of attitude. He’s a team guy first, hard worker, not a complainer—just the type of guy you want teaching a young QB like McCoy who seems to value all of those same characteristics.

johnnyphoenix - December 17, 2010 reply

A small wish list for Santa, from Colt

1. Ravens keep it close against the Saints Sunday (or maybe better yet give the Ravens a W).
I’d prefer not to have a pissed off Ray Lewis coming into Cleveland the day after Christmas ready to beat somebody up after a drubbing by the surging Saints. I’ve got my work cut out for me as it is.

2. Please find a cure for Scott Fujita’s knee ligament. Soon. Santa, I don’t think I need to explain this one to you, but suffice it to say I would prefer not to have to play catch up against the Ravens and the Steelers, and along with an already strong Browns D, Fujita might be just what the doctor ordered. If you can’t grant this wish, please see #3.

3. Troy’s ankle injury takes a few more weeks to recover. I don’t like to wish pain or injury on anyone, but I won’t apologize if it means a bit more of a level playing field on the injury front when the Steelers come to town. I can run, but that’s one dude I’d prefer not to have chasing after me all day (again).

burntorangeandbrown - December 17, 2010 reply

Santa: So, Colt. Does that mean you don’t want this RT?

Brownie's Year - December 18, 2010 reply

?
RT? Sure, add a new right tackle that to the list.

burntorangeandbrown - December 18, 2010 reply

i think that’s retwit?

Villeslgr - December 19, 2010 reply

? Je ne comprends pas. Parlez-vous anglais?

burntorangeandbrown - December 19, 2010 reply

pipe down fancypants!

Dawg Nuts - December 19, 2010 reply

Je parle un peu anglais.

notthatnoise - December 19, 2010 reply

Baxter, you know I don’t speak Spanish.

Villeslgr - December 19, 2010 reply

Company Xmas party at Pala Casino last night. Came up a couple hundred playing roulette. Super hungover. Spent $80 on a cab. Need to find a way to get my truck home. wtf

SB told you so.

Brownie's Year - December 18, 2010 reply

lol… asshole

Hilarious!

LMAO!

Kimble_79 - December 20, 2010 reply

Bahaha.

well…at least you woke up before 1:30…

and didn’t wake up with Sharpie written all over your face.

BuenosAires_Dawg - December 19, 2010 reply

All i want for Christmas is the browns to not fire Mangini. Although, the record is not what alot of fans would want to see.. i do believe we have the most talented team since the return(except @ WR). And a promising QB. I believe this year this young team is learning alot and with a couple key additions this off-season will be competeing not only for a play-off spot but a run @ the division..but daboll definantly has to go..and i know it wouldn’t be a very popular move but if the browns could bring in mcdaniels i think it would GREATLY improve are offense.

Brocolis - December 18, 2010 reply

It always surprises the hell out of me when someone mentions football here.

golanbatrac - December 18, 2010 reply

At a party full of hot women and all I can think of is my girlfriend and the Cleveland Browns. Greetings from Cordoba, Argentina, to all Browns fans wherever they may be. I’m addicted to this team. It’s just pure, unrequited love. GO BROWNS!

Say hi to the ladies for me. Can’t imagine how great the weather is there.