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Wide Left: John Kasay's Miss Saves Jake Delhomme in Browns' 24-23 Victory

CLEVELAND - NOVEMBER 28:  Kicker John Kasay #4 of the Carolina Panthers misses a fourth quarter field goal against the Cleveland Browns at Cleveland Browns Stadium on November 28 2010 in Cleveland Ohio.  (Photo by Matt Sullivan/Getty Images)

Matt Sullivan - Getty Images

over 1 year ago: CLEVELAND - NOVEMBER 28: Kicker John Kasay #4 of the Carolina Panthers misses a fourth quarter field goal against the Cleveland Browns at Cleveland Browns Stadium on November 28 2010 in Cleveland Ohio. (Photo by Matt Sullivan/Getty Images)

CAROLINA PANTHERS (1-10) GAME #11 CLEVELAND BROWNS (4-7)
VS.
23 24


A couple of days after the Cleveland Browns' 24-23 victory over the Carolina Panthers, I slowly find myself taking a little bit of joy in the fact that the Browns won this past Sunday. That does not change the fact that I am still extremely frustrated by how the game went down, particularly in the second half, but at the end of the day, it improves our chances of getting to .500 and playing a role in our final two home games of the season against Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Let's get to the review of this week's game, starting with the game balls and then the goats...

Star-divide

WEEK 12 - CAROLINA PANTHERS VS. CLEVELAND BROWNS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)

Awarding the Game Balls:

  • Reggie Hodges: After receiving a two-year contract extension earlier in the week, Hodges didn't disappoint Sunday against the Panthers. In the second quarter, the Panthers ran a punt back 32 yards before Hodges got in the way of the returner, allowing T.J. Ward to clean up the play and save a touchdown return.
     
    His next big play came with the Browns down 23-21 and just under three minutes to go in the game. Ryan Pontbriand had a very high snap on a field goal attempt for his standards, but Hodges calmly grabbed it and put it down for Phil Dawson to kick through the uprights.
     
    Shortly after that, Hodges executed the coffin corner perfectly, as his punt went out of bounds at the five yard line. Considering what ended up transpiring after that, thank goodness the Panthers did not start any closer.
     
  • Peyton Hillis: In the first half, Hillis did his damage as a running back, totaling three touchdowns. If it isn't clear that he should get the football in the red zone with Lawrence Vickers in front of him, then Brian Daboll is overthinking things. Hillis had 26 carries for 131 yards on the day.
     
    Although Hillis was denied on a couple of key runs in the fourth quarter, do not underestimate how huge he was in the passing game. After Jake Delhomme's meltdown, he needed someone to rely on for safe throws. On the Browns' game-winning field goal drive, on 3rd-and-10, Delhomme checked down to Hillis over the middle who plowed forward for 12 yards and the first down.

Goats of the Game:

  • Chris Gocong: I don't have a clue what Gocong was doing on the Panthers' final drive of the game. Facing a 3rd-and-10 with 41 seconds on the clock and no timeouts, Jimmy Clausen had pressure in his face. All of his receivers seemed to be down the field, except for running back Mike Goodsen near the left sideline. Gocong was fine at first -- he had Goodsen in front of him, ready to make a safe tackle in the event Clausen threw it that way. If Goodsen is tackled in bounds, a ton of time would be wasted and the game is over.
     
    Instead, as Clausen is getting pressured, Gocong inexplicably jumps the route before the ball is even thrown, acting as if the Browns need a pick six to have any chance of winning the game. Gocong, who is now on the wrong side of Goodsen, has to run back the other way with his back to the quarterback, hoping to deflect a pass. The pass ends up being complete, and Gocong then whiffs at the tackle. The comedy of errors continued after that, but Gocong could have prevented it from the get go.
     
    I was also frustrated by Gocong earlier in the game. On a big run ripped off by Johnathan Stewart, Gocong appeared to engage a blocker at the same time that Stewart was hitting the hole just to the left of Gocong. I guess Gocong was content with just watching Stewart go by for 31 yards before Abram Elam could bring him down.
     
  • Jake Delhomme: I'll talk about Delhomme more below, but the pick six gets you listed here. When they are completely your fault and a play doesn't need to be made, you're going to be a goat.

General Thoughts:

  1. Closing Out the Game: I might be jumping around a lot in this review rather than going in chronological order like I sometimes do. Right now, I want to talk about the Browns' offensive series after Joe Haden's interception. If Cleveland gets one first down, the game is over. I agree with pounding the ball with Hillis three times, because even if you do not get the first down, Carolina's chances are slim with no timeouts and less than a minute to play.
     
    Nonetheless, it was disappointing to see Cleveland fail to get the first down. In games against Cincinnati and New England, Hillis closed things out with big runs. In both instances, the plays went to the outside. Throughout the game against Carolina, some of Hillis' best runs went to the outside. Unless I don't remember the plays correctly (I did not rewatch the game yet), I think all three of Hillis' carries at the end went up the middle. I expected the second down play to be the pitch play, but it wasn't. We're supposed to be a very good running team, and in a situation like that against a 1-10 Panthers team, Cleveland should be able to finish the game with kneeldowns.
     
  2. Jake Delhomme (Part 1): I truly wanted to come away from this game having a good feeling about the way Delhomme played against his former team in his return game. In the first half, for the most part, we got the "good" Delhomme. Let's not forget that he finished the first half 12-of-18 for 149 yards. Half of those completions went to wide receivers, and in total, eight different receivers were targeted.
     
    There were some nervous moments -- namely a throw as he was about to be sacked that was almost a repeat of the Tampa Bay game, and the fumble just before halftime, but those are the risks you take when Delhomme starts. Overall, you hope the positives outweigh the negatives, and in the first half they did. In no way am I saying another quarterback couldn't have done what Delhomme did, but the Browns had four solid first half drives on offense.
     
  3. Jake Delhomme (Part II): This was the first time in a couple of weeks that the Browns got the ball first in the second half, and I was looking forward to putting together a nice, long drive after the offense's first half success. On the first play though, Delhomme went off of playaction and was intercepted by linebacker Jon Beason who read the play perfectly. I was pissed that Delhomme threw an interception right off the bat, but this wasn't the play that irritated me following the game. Interceptions happen, and Delhomme probably thought Beason would have come up to try to stop Hillis.
     
    The play that sent my confidence spiraling down the drain was Delhomme's next throw on the next possession. Fresh off John Kasay missing a 46-yarder to redeem Delhomme, it looked like Delhomme couldn't find an open receiver. He rolled out to his right where the pressure was already at and saw Mohamed Massaquoi double teamed on the sideline while he was stationary. Before he even threw it, I thought to myself, "oh, no." When he released the football, I prayed that the defender would drop the ball, even before I saw the defender jump in front of Massaquoi. That didn't happen. Instead, the pick six was complete, and although Cleveland still had the lead, I felt like the Browns were going to lose. I didn't think Delhomme's headcase mentality could get it done.
     
  4. Jake Delhomme (Part III): I'm not going to praise Delhomme's play following his second interception too much, but I give him credit for not throwing another interception. I thought he might not complete another meaningful pass after that play, but he put some quick hitters right on the money to Mohamed Massaquoi, and Brian Robiskie. Nothing spectacular, but in hindsight, it was just enough of a rebound to get Cleveland into field goal range.
     
  5. Overall Assessment on Delhomme: Do I want to see Delhomme play again? I think I'd rather see Seneca Wallace and Colt McCoy in there because they won't make as many mistakes. Delhomme still offers a few assets, namely getting Brian Robiskie the football. I know Robiskie didn't have any breakaway plays or anything like that, but those short catches add up over time and could eventually lead to more opportunities for Hillis in the running game. I suspect Delhomme will start again this week in Miami, so I have to support Delhomme. He owned up to his mistakes after the game, and I can only hope he makes some better decisions the next time around. His lack of mobility compared to our other quarterbacks was definitely evident as well.
     
  6. Go for the Field Goal: Facing a 4th-and-1 with 11:40 left in the fourth quarter from the 25 yard line, the Browns decided to go for it. I'm not going to complain too much about the call because I like the confidence we have in Hillis. However, there are two things about the play, which many of you have already discussed. First, if you're going to get those short yards, please have Vickers in the game to block. Second, before the play was attempted, I was wishing the Browns would kick a field goal. Offensive touchdowns for the Panthers are rare, and even if they scored a touchdown, Cleveland would only be a field goal behind. Against a higher-powered offense, I would've gone for it. Not against Carolina.
     
  7. Not Going for the Two-Pointer: When Carolina intercepted Delhomme for a touchdown, the score was 21-19. They opted to kick the extra point instead of going for two. If the situation were reversed and the Browns were 1-9, I would hope that my team tries to go for the tie right then and there.
     
  8. Tackling Shifted to Stripping: I don't mind when Ahtyba Rubin goes for a big hack from behind on a running back when he knows there are linebackers and safeties the back still has to go through. I encourage defenders to try to rip the ball out when two other defenders are standing a guy up. What is baffling though is that when the Browns need a simple tackle to basically end the game, or when a running back starts breaking off a big run, our defenders are not even trying to go for the tackle. They are taking one hack at the football, missing, and then watching the ballcarrier break off 20 more yards.
     
    Listening to "Browns Tonight," the local television show on Channel 3 that airs at mignight following the game, safety Mike Adams was a guest. He admitted to being one of the guys going for the strip on Goodsen's big run. Again...WHY? It's just as bad as Gocong thinking he needs to take the risk of getting a pick six on the play. For the Browns' past three games, any tackle at the end of the game would have been just as good as a fumble or interception, with the added bonus that tackles are 100 times easier to make. This defense needs a leader, because since Scott Fujita went down, everyone thinks that a turnover is necessary to be a hero at the end of the game.
     
  9. More Action for Moore: The targets were up for Evan Moore, as he had four passes thrown his way throughout the game. Delhomme fired a nice pass to him in the end zone that Moore caught but dropped after taking a helmet-to-helmet shot. It seems like every player that takes one of those these days gets a concussion, so it was surprising to see Moore was fine afterward.
     
    Moore was targeted on an awesome 3rd-and-1 quick pass right at the line a little later in the red zone. That is the type of play I always think, "man, why don't teams take advantage of this at times?" when I see defenders playing back. Unfortunately, the defender did a good job stripping Moore of the ball for a costly turnover. I hope Cleveland continues throwing to him though.
     
  10. End Arounds: It was nice to see Carlton Mitchell get an end around play for 9 yards, one that involved Alex Mack doing a simple body block to help clear the way. I found it interesting how the Browns rushed to the line of scrimmage to purposely get that play off. Delhomme had just completed a 21 yard pass to Hillis with 26 seconds left in the first quarter. They could have easily let the clock run down, but they hurried up and snapped the ball again with 3 seconds left.
     
    The Browns tried another end around with Chansi Stuckey later on, but it didn't work, going for a loss of 4 yards. Without Cribbs, I credit the Browns for putting those two plays in though.
     
  11. Cribbs Should Have Sat: I credit Joshua Cribbs for wanting to play, but as ineffective as he has been on returns this year, it looked worse on Sunday. He could not break a tackle to save his life, even when defenders were only "grazing" him (by Cribbs' standards). He later sat on kickoffs, with Clifton Smith getting a chance instead. I thought Smith had a big hole on his first attempt, but he fumbled the ball. He got back on top of it, but it's never good when the guy you bring in as a return 'specialist' loses the ball. I assume Joe Haden isn't doing kickoffs because we need him at cornerback, but I'd rather see him back there, even if it is a risk.
     
  12. Dawson Connects: While I have Hodges a game ball, I easily could have given one to Phil Dawson. After missing two 51 yarders last week, when faced with a 41 yarder and 2:47 to go, he drilled it. If he misses the kick, it's like missing a kick as the clock expires, because Cleveland probably isn't going to get the ball back.
     
  13. Safeties Continue to Excel: There were some flaws with our safeties. On the first drive, I thought T.J. Ward took the wrong approach on Mike Goodsen's 26 yard touchdown run. I believe Abram Elam might have missed a tackle later on. Still, they rebounded. Ward blew up a play in the backfield for a loss, and Elam registered two sacks.
     
  14. Haden Can't Win: Three games ago, Joe Haden gets ridiculed for intercepting a pass in overtime versus knocking it down. Two games ago, Joe Haden gets criticized for stopping Maurice Jones-Drew at the 1 after a 75 yard screen pass. This week, Joe Haden makes the interception near the end and decides to slide down. He probably felt, "surely, THIS time, my decision is the nail in the coffin." Instead, the Panthers got the ball back and nearly won. I think Haden definitely made the right move in going down, although he probably did have some room up the sideline. Haden would have probably gotten a game ball too had the Panthers not had those two big plays at the end.
     
  15. Special Teams Tackles: With Blake Costanzo out, Cleveland had five special teams tackles. Newcomer Eric Alexander had two, and so did T.J. Ward. Jason Trusnik had the other tackle. Speaking of Trusnik, I'd be up for seeing him more involved in the linebacker rotation.
     
  16. Ventrone at the End: I don't understand why we're seeing so much of Ray Ventrone late in the games. He doesn't seem to particularly excel in coverage. He was flagged for pass interference in the end zone several weeks ago because his back was to the ball. Against Jacksonville, he was covering Marcedes Lewis on his touchdown grab. This week, I saw his jersey several times in the fourth quarter, with Carolina completing passes in his vicinity.
     
    With Eric Wright down, I guess it is just a matter of the depth chart. Mike Adams would usually take the third safety spot, but Adams must be playing more at cornerback. We'd have to have six defensive backs in the game at times for Ventrone to play, unless we're subtituting him in for a starter. Either way, I'd rather try Nick Sorensen out there, even if it pisses off golanbatrac.
     
  17. Clausen < McCoy: I'm not sure that I've seen a quarterback fall like a deck of cards at a hint of pressure like Jimmy Clausen did at certain points of the game when pressure came. Clausen didn't have a great game, but he ended up getting a couple of big completions toward the end.
     
    I tend to believe that those completions had more to do with him being fortunate than him actually being good enough to throw the ball with such precision. With that said, his final pass to of the game for 28 yards was unbelievable. I'm upset our defense allowed the receiver to get out of bounds, but it ended up being an amazing completion that left me speechless. I didn't know what to say after the play.
     
  18. Brownies: The offensive line blocked better this week, especially Joe Thomas on pitch plays, although John St. Clair wasn't very good and nearly caused a lost fumble...even though Cleveland passed a lot in the first half, I liked the design of most of the passes...if there is one pass we should forget about though, it's the two yard crosses to Lawrence Vickers...if we're going to try a pass with Vickers, have him in the game as a blocker and run a surprise screen pass behind the line...then have him throw the football ;)...speaking of throwing, Hillis almost threw a touchdown to a wide open Ben Watson; I just assume he didn't get a good grip of the ball and had to get it out of his hand.

The win wasn't pretty, but I'm ready to shift my attention to the Miami Dolphins this week. The Dolphins have looked bad at times this year, but they still have a very competitive football team and are coming off a dominant win over the Oakland Raiders.

0 recs  |  172 comments

Comments

Rob Ryan to defense: “Hey guys, PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR AND WAVE ‘EM LIKE YOU JUST DON’T CARE! BA BA BUM BA BA BUM.”

The Browns tried another end around with Chansi Stuckey later on, but it didn’t work, going for a loss of 4 yards. Without Cribbs, I credit the Browns for putting those two plays in though.

I don’t think that was supposed to be an end around. I think it was supposed to be a fake that was instead supposed to go to Hillis and Delhomme whiffed the snap and his last resort was to shove it to Chansi when the blocks were obviously not there.

Hillis almost threw a touchdown to a wide open Ben Watson; I just assume he didn’t get a good grip of the ball and had to get it out of his hand.

Hillis was asked if Delhomme gave him pointers on how to throw and he said something along the lines of… “Man, that was ugly, wasn’t it? Ah, I don’t know anything about setting my feet and whatever, guess that’s the end of my QB career.”

Great recap Chris, as always. I caught most of this game on the radio on my way home and almost got into a wreck several times, including the Delhomme Pick Six, Dawson’s made FG, Haden’s INT, and the entire last drive. I should not be around heavy machinery during Browns games.

I do agree with what Dorn (I think) said in another thread, that this game has a weird “after-taste” to it (almost like losing), while the Jets game felt like we won it afterwards. In the end, a win is a win and I’m just happy we were able to pull one out.

Two things:

1. COmpletely agree with you on going for the field goal with the main reason being that we were facing Carolina who wasn’t a great bet to score a TD.
2. I think Fox probably went for 1 pt, because of what happened in that Carolina Super Bowl appearance. He went for 2 early and it ended up costing him in the end as if they had only gone for 1, the outcome of the game would have changed in their favor. I am guessing ever since then Fox has been reluctant to go for 2 early.

Pokorny review...

There is not much to add. Delhomme is a major concern each week he starts. We know the season is now to build momentum for next year and see what players fit in certain situations. I don’t think they rush McCoy back but I would like him to get as many real game snaps and situations in as possible preparing for next year. I think a positive sign for next season would be ending this season 3-2 making the season 7-9. I think they match pretty even with the 5 teams left, taking into account Buffalo’s resurgence. With Delhomme I dont see the Browns beating the Steelers, or Ravens and maybe not Buffalo. The Ravens and Steeler defenses will feed off Delhomme’s propensity to make mistakes when pressured. I dont think even if the Browns win with Delhomme it helps in the long run. I think McCoy needs to be the face of this team as soon as he is healthy.

Do you think if healthy McCoy will be handed the job for good the rest of the year?

I thought the Pokorny review was well thought out and on point. I like Chris’s recaps.

CP does have some pretty solid recaps…

Haden Can’t Win

We’re forgetting the most important thing here, he have a rookie CB with the ability to make plays as well as the gritty tackles. When the most prominent concern is the choices he’s making AFTER interceptions, we’re in a good spot.

Haden should’ve just run the ball until he was tackled. If the touchdown happens it happens. Field goal or touchdown and we still win. I think he is confused and has not been in those situations enough to know what to do. He should be able to count on the offense to get a 1st down and end the game, but if you remember the line from the Replacements, when the game is on the line winners always want the ball. Haden should not give up the ball. Run Haden Run.

Haden should’ve just run the ball until he was tackled.

So he should have risked injury to gain another 5 yards in that situation? There was no way he is getting a ton more yardage on that. there are 3 guys around him, one is 2 yards away and to his right and downfield a bit, another is 3 yards directly ahead of him, and a third is 2 yards away, by the sideline.

I’m not worried about injury so much as fumbling the ball once tackled

that too. He already has had a fumble on an interception return. the guy in front of him that was blocking his path was also a huge O-Lineman and I do not envision that hit going well

It was the right move, I think.

No question it was the right move. I agree with all of his moves by the way — interception of Sanchez was the right thing (sure a batdown would have been good too but there is a risk in that as well), and so was tackling MJD to stop a TD.

i’m not going to say i criticized haden for the jets int and the mjd tackle, but the best thing to do in each situation would have been the opposite of what he actually did. however, it’s impossible to air a guy out for making plays and giving his all.

in this situation, he did absolutely the right thing. 100%. i believe that this decision to slide represents a maturation in haden and not confusion, as you say. the jets int and jax tackle were more indicative of confusion than this, given that it would have taken some very keen game awareness to opt out of the plays he made in those two games.

I agree completely with your perspective. Looking back, he did the wrong thing on each of those two plays but I don’t fault him at all for doing that. He was just making plays in the game like he’s taught. And I think it was a good move to slide after the pick on Sunday so he doesn’t risk a fumble.

THIS. I would rather have haden make those “rookie mistakes” by being aggressive than make a mistake of not making plays.

No thanks. I was screaming “hold on to the football” over and over. Stuckey fumbles while fighting for yards and everyone blames him, that’s got to be fresh in our minds. Haden almost had one poked out the other week on a return too.

He did have one poked out the other week, but Gocong recovered it.

I read that as aleft handed compliment- the lad is looking great for a rookie CB, making plays, and is STILL getting flak.

I’m starting to think this was a very, very good draft pick.

Yeah, that’s what I tried to convey. He’s doing very well, but for the past three games, he’s been involved in playmaking “what should I do” situations? If you win, he’s the hero, if you lose, he’s definitely not a goat, but you’ll hear people say stuff like, “if only Haden would have [blank]…”

My comment was made based on how the remainder of the game played out. Haden wsa not going to get hurt. Everyone I think would agree that he is a tough physical player, that is why he was drafted. My point was not to give him flak, but to suggest that a more agressive playing style in the 2nd half needs to be employed not only by the defense, but by the whole team. I have heard numerous complaints about the play calling in the 2nd half on this board, but the defense has played conservative in many of these close games. Even look at the final drive by Clausen, it was very weak. If we are up by 2 touchdowns, I agree Haden should go down, but not when we holding on to the game by a thread when the offense has historcially not been able to close out the close games.

Well, with Fujita out and now McCoy, my season record is now going to change to 6-10. Obviously I see us going 2-3 to finish out this year. If nothing else I am extremely excited about next year. If we can have a good draft and get Hardesty back next year and staying healthy, all while continuing to polish/mold McCoy, this team will be a contender next year for the playoffs.

I keep forgetting about Hardesty. What do you think will be the ability of him to rebound? What a potential plus that would be

I think he will rebound just fine, he has done it before in college on the other knee. The guy showed flashes of being a Hillisesque runner but with more flash. If he can stay healthy, he and Hillis combined in one backfield is a scary thing.

The guy showed flashes of being a Hillisesque runner but with more flash

i’m asking honestly: are you basing this assessment on his college play?

No. About four snaps in the pre – season.

I’m basing this off the film that I have seen of him in college, yes. He appeared to me to be a downhill runner (Hillisesque), but with more ability to make moves laterally. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but that was my overall feel for him watching highlights reel. He showed glimpses of this in preseason, but it was only for about a quarter of play or so? It would be hard to get a feel from him judging on his NFL experience as it was pretty short.

yeah, i think you can glean exactly 0 from his nfl experience.

honestly, i haven’t seen much of his college highlight reel. my focus on hardesty (pessimistically) has been entirely on the litany of leg injuries he’s suffered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJiHPqy8xE

about 2:30 into the video you catch glimpses of what I mean by Hillisesque. He likes to cut back much more, but doesn’t hesitate in running downhill once he sees a hole. Obviously he isn’t Peyton, but he likes to run north/south once he finds an opening. If, BIG IF, he could stay healthy, we could have a hell of a dangerous backfield next year.

Incredible vision, good burst for a guy his size but not sub 4.40 breakaway speed, a little wiggle but not a whole lot, and a spin move that he probably overuses while not really shifting his weight (just spinning in place).

Good hands and route running as well.

I am optimistic. Most comments about his rehab have been positive.

to me, there is literally no reason to be optimistic about hardesty. given his injury history and the fact that he has taken, what, 4 snaps in a browns uni? anything we get from him will be pure gravy for me.

That’s probably the most pessimistic viewpoint. Sometimes I am overly willing to believe team doctors, which has burnt me in the past following the Indians. However, at the time of the injury they seemed to think this type of surgery is not particularly career threatening, so I remain hopeful.

i’m willing to admit that mine is probably the most pessimistic view available.

I am optimistic he can rehabilitate himself from a torn ACL. I am optimistic that he will be a good player if he gets back to where he was his senior year at Tennessee.

I am not optimistic he can ever stay healthy.

Agree completely with all the above

Mitchell laid some wood on his reverse. I would love to see more of him.

The win felt not so great but another last second loss would’ve been unbearable. The team really needs to practice their 2 min defense more. Or just remember to tackle.

Overall I think Gocong has played really well this year. I think he lost his head momentarily in an otherwise solid season.

I disagree on Gocong. What has he truly done to impress you or me? what impact plays has he made? I forgot he and Barton were are starting ILBs…thats how much of an impact they have had.

I think Barton has had a good year. Gocong has been impressive at times.

i think you think barton has been ‘good’ b/c he hasn’t overtly sucked (like he did a lot last year). for a MLB, though, you rarely hear his name.

exactly. Eric Barton is the quietest guy I remember to rack up 50 tackles. I never hear his name called…I think a lot of his tackles are when there are 3-4 defenders around the RB and you can’t see who made the tackle…this must be it.

Also on Barton: from the pics I saw of his headshot and him in NY, I always imagined him looking kinda buff for a LB (not Matt Roth, but not Wimbley or Benard). I saw him at the game and he looked Evan Moore skinny or even skinnier.

Another guy and what I thought of his size at the game. Hillis. the guy is a load…

I do not like Eric Barton.

Barton is like DQs dad.

Lots of statistical production but never makes the big play.

The opposite of Bowens- hope Benard can step into that big play role.

Barton has lot less athleticism too. DQ can at least cover and make plays laterally. If Barton doesn’t happen to be near the guy, he isn’t making any plays at all.

what did he ever do to you?

He’s made several plays behind the line of scrimmage and his tackling has been solid (before this) all season.

Barton on the other hand- I have seen several key highlights where he appears to almost run away or avoid making a tackle.

He’s made several plays behind the line of scrimmage and his tackling has been solid (before this) all season.

Point me to several. I have rarely seen him in the backfield when watching games and he often seems to disappear at the line, like Barton. Gocong has 3 recorded TFLs by ESPN. Eric Barton has 4. So when it comes to making plays behind the line, he is no better than Eric Barton this year and that isn’t something to write home about, for sure. His tackling is decent, but its not like he is making every single one. We lost maybe our most reliable tackler in Fujita and now we have to rely on guys who are less reliable and it shows.

Saw I think Pluto or Grossi mention that Mitchell is replacing Cribbs as the WR in one wideout packages in which we will be running the ball for blocking purposes.

good for him. if you can’t get on the field to catch passes you have to be able to block.

Unclear if this is only while Cribbs is injured, but at least a small positive.

Could be the Joe Haden emergence, only for the offensive side…

Forgot to mention this in the review:

I need to rewatch the plays, but holy crap, Mike Bell gained some positive yardage in relief of Peyton Hillis! It’s about time.

At the end of games (recently) it seems the Browns cannot pick up the needed first downs. Is the line faltering?

It was the Panthers though…

gotta start somewhere

They need to make the O line look the other way when they sub him in. Maybe have MoMass point to the upper deck and say “look, a cheeseburger” while Bell runs in off of the sidelines. They block much better for Peyton.

Man. With games like this one and last week’s game and at the beginning of the season, it’s going to be tough for Holmgren to decide whether Mangini stays or goes…

I think Holmgren understands that this young team lacks depth and injuries are one of the main culprits right now.

I agree with you but I feel like we say this every year.

I think the majority opinion around here (I may be wrong) is that without some sort of late season collapse, Mangini deserves and will probably get another year. I love the team he’s been building and I think another year will only lead to better things.

you gotta give a coach 3 years. Its annoying when the idiots on the radio on sunday when I was doing errands were calling for his head after 2 when he showed legitimate signs of something.

I concur Buckeye. I’m a bit baffled by people calling for Mangini’s head around the internet this season.

The biggest wildcard on Mangini’s future is Daboll.

Although I am not as much a Daboll critic as some around here who seem to blame him for every single thing that goes wrong, I do not think he is doing a good job as OC and I am pretty sure that Holmgren really doesn’t think he is doing a good job. The question then will be whether Holmgren will want to force a change of OC on Mangini and/or if Mangini would accept that or whether he would not want to throw Daboll under the bus and just tell Holmgren that if he wants a new OC he should also get a new Head Coach.

Exactly...

I guess there are some coaches who are very loyal that way (and Mangini has been) but I think this is a question of Mangini’s future. Preserving your second HC job is very important because you don’t know what type (if any) offers you might ever get again.

No one was complaining about second half adjustments when we won against NO and NE or even against the Jets.

I don’t feel very good at this point as I am sure most of you don’t either. After the three game run against NO, NE and NY….things seemed groovy. Now, we’ve had back to back lackluster performances losing a game we should have won and winning a game we should have lost. I make no apologies for style but losing to Miami this week will be a definite blow to Mangini’s chances of staying. I think that there’s more of a hot-seat there than people acknowledge. As a matter of fact, if they lose two of the next three, I am not sure if beating Baltimore and Pittsburgh would be enough to save Mangini. Could I see them running the table? Sure. Could I see them losing out to finish 4-12? Unfortunately, yes. There are no “gimmes” in these last five games. Buffalo is playing very well. They’re tough at home. Miami is always an unknown with good runners and a top ten defense. Cincinnati is going to be playing at home….and then you get the two top dogs in the division.

Dreaded….you need to clarify.

WHY would Mangini be in the hot seat, as opposed to Daboll?

what responsibilites of his have fallen though?

it is very evident that offensive play-calling decisions have cost us a few games. that would be Daboll.

I would love to see us replace Daboll with someone Mangini and Holmgren pick together. I do not like our offense.

I think Mangini is shaping up to be a good HC but Holmgren is the man as far as offesne goes- so if Holmgren replaced Daboll I wouldn’t mind; and I wouldn’t mind if jhe kept him either.

I wouldn’t mind if he kept him either.

What?!

I think Daboll has done an amazing job with the absolute lack of talent we have on offense. Just for the fact that it has been able to keep up with the opposition speaks volumes.

We don’t have depth along the line or talent at the WR position, but we have plenty enough talent that a competent OC should be able to use. I’m not trying to imply Daboll isn’t competent. he’s done a decent job this year.

What else do we have? He have a lack of talent at WR, QB, Oline, That’s 3 out of 5 positions. No matter what kool-aid you’ve been drinking, McCoy handicaps the offense by not being able to spread the ball around. We also have the worst WR core in the league, and a line that got manhandled by Carolina. For the fact that we’re not getting blown out every game, he’s done more than a decent job

we definitely have horrible wr’s.

however, you’re conflating lack of talent w/ lack of depth on the o-line; this is actually quite a talented group at 4 of the 5 positions. and i think it’s unfair to characterize the qb situation as lacking talent — you can’t call it a major point of strength, but as you say the wr’s suck, so it’s hard to know what we have at qb. mccoy protects the ball well, which is crucial.

but i will say that i agree with you in that daboll has not done as bad a job as many want to believe. “amazing” is a ridiculous overstatement of daboll’s performance, but he’s been pretty good overall.

I’d say he’s done so-so, he seems to come alive for a couple games then go dormant for a few.

I have already pointed this out, but outside of getting the ball to robiskie, McCoy is not significantly better or worse than Delhomme at getting the ball to MoMass/Slot WR. He may be less consistent by a bit than Delhomme, but to say that McCoy handicaps the offense is a vast overstatement.

Daball has had small signs of life. He came to life in that stretch of NO, NE, and NY. He was energetic, creative and had those teams pegged. Why he has fallen back in slumber like a hibernating bear is beyond me. Get the guy a 5 hour energy and lets win a game!

Sorry Daboll

It seems to me that they are playing “Tressel Ball” as of late. They get a lead and they try to sit on it. 3 yards and a cloud of dust. They seem to lack that “Killer instinct” to put the last couple nails in the coffin.

That’s really insulting to Tressel.

the other thing to consider here is that holmgren sounds like he may want to coach again. he’s not going to step into a situation in which his team would be happy to go 8-8 / 9-7 (which could be the case, depending on schedule, for the browns next year); rather, he’s going to look to step into a potential contender and possibly take 2-3 more shots at winning another ring. w/ that as background, barring a total collapse, i think that mangini is assured of coming back next year.

if you don’t bring mangini back, it’s unlikely that holmgren is coaching this team next year (given that they’re unlikely to be title contenders), which means he’ll have hired somebody new for 2011, and would have to fire that person in 2012/13 if he wanted to get back into a coaching slot for a title run.

now, he could always go somewhere else (holmgren, that is), but he’s got a pretty cherry deal here. that’s my version of a conspiracy theory, anyway.

to finish the thought, if holmgren does bring mangini back next year, though, and the browns go 8-8 or 9-7, holmgren could at least make the plausible case that mangini did a great job but the browns need that extra push to get them over the hump … and that push is the walrus on the sidelines in 2012.

I think that would be tough to sell. I’m taking the guy at his word that he is done coaching until he’s finished his job here.

I think Holmgren stays with Browns in some capacity for at least the next 4 years.

I don’t think he sounds like he wants to coach again when you watch him at press conferences. He almost seems like a Dad who is trying his best to let his son be his own man. The whole “once a coach, always a coach” thing, while totally accepting his role as president.

You can’t unlearn all of the things you were taught as a coach, and when he sees something that isn’t being done perfectly out there, he’s got to start thinking about the way he would correct it or what he used to do.

Great Writeup

Some of my thoughts

Gocong: I dunno what it is right now with our Inside Linebackers. Our safeties are coming down to make plays and the D-Line hasn’t been to bad. We really need a good player in there right now and when Gocong may be your best ILB, you are in trouble. They have about as many total tackles together (Gocong and Barton) as Ward…and they aren’t making nearly as many plays as ward overall. I can’t believe it, but I miss DQ a LOT.

13-14: Our secondary played very well in coverage. Clausen couldn’t find where to go with the ball and dumped it off a lot to the RB (which is generally more of an issue of our LBs covering him, but thats a different story). Steve Smith was held to only 2 catches and a good amount of that was because of Haden’s excellent coverage on him.

16. I agree Ventrone shouldn’t be in, but I do think Sorenson is worse out there, though not by much.

17. Clausen has just looked flat out bad. The thing is, he seems to have absolutely no poise. There were a couple times when I saw him scramble and throw it away but wasn’t focusing my attention on the pressure so I just said “he must have felt the pressure”, but on the replay there was no pressure.

Tough when your top 2 ILB’s are hurt, but I agree having Gocong as your number 1 is not great.

very true. I dunno though if DQ (the 2nd ILB I am assuming you are referrring to) has a ton left. Its hard to come back after missing almost 2 whole seasons.

+1. Think DQ has played his last down with the Browns.

Free agent hasn’t really played in 2 years, I doubt he’s back.

Same. Too bad, we need an athletic LB out there and despite his lack of splash plays I loved DQ’s intelligence.

It’s been so long since I last saw DQ play that I can’t tell you if I’d miss him or not. I can tell you that I wouldn’t really miss Barton though.

I can tell you that when healthy, DQ is better on run defense than Gocong.

I know not to ever count on luck but I have to say that over the years the Browns have been known as a “bad luck team”. We lose games that are close, the ball never bounces our way, we are 1 play away from something big, etc. This season I have seen luck happen to the Browns in many forms. I have never seen it before and have been around a while. I’ll take the win because we don’t get lucky in Cleveland much and we need all we can get. That being said you make your own luck sometimes and you have to keep playing until the whistle and I think the team did that in this game even more so than other games this season.

If the stadium had a dome we would have blown it off with the noise after Kasay missed the kick. It was awesome any way you slice it.

What I remembered about Hillis’s first down runs at the end of Cincy and NE was that he initially charged forward between the tackles and adjusted his route to the outside. I assume he saw a lack of room where the plays were designed to go.

Correct. Those runs were Hillis’ vision and the fact that the D completely collapsed themselves into the LOS.

Did anyone else hear that if Hillis can top the 1000yd mark for the season, he will be the 1st white boy to do such since 1985? That is an incredible stat that I really hadn’t though about before now.

Was that Riggins? I would guess that to be true. I know Alstott was a serviceable runner – but am quite sure he never threatened the 1,000 yard mark. I think if you put your color blinders on – Hillis is really a nice athelete. Kudos to the Browns for identifying his talent, bending over the Broncos, and messing up thier spunk.

Craig James I believe. I would have guessed Riggins also

Craig James had a fine season in 1985….until the Super Bowl.

craig james is right … and alstott (to answer real mccoy) once went for like 950.

and Riggins rushed for 1K the year before.

Kudos to Mangini. From everything I’ve heard he has been on the Hillis bandwagon for a long time.

They never gave Alstott the ball that much. Dude was a beast though.

If he hits around 1,300, he’ll have the most yards by a Brown in a season since Kelly, I think. Don’t quote me on that though.

Jamal Lewis, 2007, had over 1300 yards.

I didn’t think it was over 1,300. Maybe it was all – purpose and they included the 1,300 in there?

Like DCMJ pointed out, it was over 1300 just rushing. He only needs to get to about 1260 yards (this is also assuming he has no more yards receiving) to have the most yards from scrimmage since Jim Freakin Brown.

If you adjust for games played, he would only need 70 receiving yards on top of that to have more yards from scrimmage than Kelly in Kelly in ’68 (but Kelly in ’66 got over 2000 all purpose yards b/c he was a returner too)

Also, Reuben Droughns had 1232 in 2005.

They mentioned this on draft day when the Vikings took Toby Gerhart in the second round. I remember thinking then that Hillis had a better chance at it than Gerhart. Seriously, Hillis was more likely to end up the #1 RB over Harrison and Hardesty than Gerhart taking over Peterson’s job.

do you have any stock market recommendations? b/c if you thought hillis — before watching the first four games of this season — had anything resembling a chance to crack 1000 yards then you, sir, are a soothsayer.

I think Broncos’ fans could have guessed that.

I think he was just saying that he had a better chance of doing so than Gerhart, because Gerhart was behind AP while Hillis was behind Harrison and Hardesty.

exactly what I was thinking he meant too.

Some nice detail points Chris – thanks. You reminded me about the Alex Mack block on the Carlton Mitchell end around. I was in shock and awe when I saw that. I have never in my life seen a center make that block with his backside to the sideline. I have to imagine that the hustle he exhibited (unfortunately offscreen) was incredible. Well done young man!

there was a tremendous joe t. block, too, on a run to the left (can’t remember the ball carrier, but it was probably hillis, and it was down close to the goal line) when joe got a virtual pancake at the LOS, and then took out a db and lb at once downfield. guy is amazing.

I saw David Baas do it once in college…

OT, but is anyone planning on going to that Indians Snow Days? I’m hopefully going when I visit in a few weeks!

Dawgsnuts will be happy. Jordan Norwood is back.

didn’t know that, but I’m glad. I thought he had potential.

It occurs to me that the title of this article should be re-worded.

“Wide Left: John Kasay’s Miss Saves Jake Delhomme in Browns’ 24-23 Victory”
Should be:
“Wide Left: John Kasay’s Miss Saves Eric Mangini’s job in Browns’ 24-23 Victory”
I can’t see what, if anything, Jake Delhomme has been saved from.
_

I can’t make a title too long, so I shorten it. If I said it like a sentence, it is meant to say…

"Wide Left: John Kasay’s Miss Saves Browns from Jake Delhomme’s Meltdown in 24-23 Victory"

I see what you’re saying though.

Yeah – sorry, my intention wasn’t really to criticize you or the article.
Just making a tongue in cheek commentary. I probably should have qualified with “/sarc”…

No worries, I didn’t take it as negative criticism at all.

anyone see/hear about Anderson’s Monday night press conference?

No, there’s just a huge fanshot on it. Haha.

didn’t see it the first time. i get too excited and don’t look at things closely enough.

I had never heard DA talk too much in the media before, but this just typifies what I’ve always thought about the guy. Can’t lead a team and can’t really hone up to being called out(by that reporter), only after he’s told there is tape of him smiling it up on the sideline does he confess. I feel sorry for the Cardinals fans. They deserve better. So glad that we have who we have here, even though I have to drink more when Jake is playing, now and not that jackass Anderson anymore.

I really think people made way too big a deal of that smile. he said a teammate made a joke to try and cheer him up. that’s understandable. as Kurt Warner said, the next time you’re having a really bad day, make sure you don’t smile once.

I think DA made too big a deal out of a reporter asking a question about a smile. You can’t win going back and forth with a reporter like that and getting emotional about it.

I think he should have just ignored the reporter after the third or fourth time the guy asked the question, but I also think the reporter should have stopped. He was just trying to get a rise out of DA. It worked, but that’s just mean spirited.

it was a bad question, quite frankly, but i don’t think the reporter ultimately did anything wrong beyond ask a stupid question. he really didn’t get much in while DA was yelling at him … and not even remotely answering the question.

the guy asked him the same question three or four times before DA blew up I thought.

not really. he asked different questions because of what DA was saying.

Reporter: "what were you saying in that instance that you were trying to be positive that was funny. I don’t mean this to be sarcastic or pointed, but I mean…that went out on Monday Night Television, a lot of fans are talking about it right now as a big problem with this team. Can you put into context what was going on in that moment? What caused you- (interrupted)

DA: “What Deuce and I talk about is nobody elses business”

Reporter: “But why was something funny when you were down 18 points in the 4th quarter?”

DA: “It wasn’t funny, I wasn’t laughing about anything”

Reporter: “the Cameras showed you laughing”

DA: Okay, thats fine thats fine…

Reporter: Coach Gruden commented about it (interrupted again)\

DA: Thats fine, thats fine. I’m not laughing about it, I take this Sh*** serious…(yadda yadda yadda).

Reporter: All I am saying is that the cameras showed-(interrupted again).

To me, DA was overreacting to very neutrally worded questions. All of these questions are not trying to directly criticize the incident but just find out more.

"But why was something funny when you were down 18 points in the 4th quarter?"

Absolutely moronic question in my opinion that serves no purpose whatsoever aside from provoking DA.

That said, yes, DA overreacted and should have handled it better.
No one disagrees with that.

if you don’t see how everything the reporter said was basically the same thought reworded, I can’t help you.

and FSM help you if you think those were neutral questions just looking for more information.

I do believe those were neutral questions, especially when you add in the tone of the reporter.

I also don’t think he was saying the same thing. Similar thing? yes. Same subject? Yes. Same questions, different wording? I don’t think so.

He was egging him on with basically the same question over and over again trying to bait an explosion.

yup. baiting. it worked, he must be a master at it.

. he said a teammate made a joke to try and cheer him up.

ok, i said that earlier, but now i can’t find where i saw it and i think i might be going crazy

You are a Louisville fan, so it would make sense

By the way, you guys nearly had us a couple weeks back. We have to win out and have UCONN lose in order to win the Big East now.

i was there and i don’t think it was as close as it seemed, we really had no offense with powell hurt and burke was lost trying to figure out your defense.

ha, but im much better now that a certain coach is gone

I saw it in an article as well, but don’t remember if it was through nfl.com or what.

found it, it was an AP article

Anderson erupts into postgame tirade after Cardinals’ loss

Late in the game, TV cameras showed Anderson sharing a laugh with guard Deuce Lutui on the sideline. When initially asked about the exchange after the game, Anderson quietly said Lutui had told him something to keep them positive, and that they can hopefully get on the same page.

Anderson calmly answered another question about a different topic, then started to lose his temper as the reporter came back to the shared laugh.

when did he say this though? after the press conference? During the press conference he flat out denied that the joke was even made.

I’ll just point to the comment up above.

Any Word on who is starting QB this week?

I am hoping Wallace, but fearing Delhomme.

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