I thought long and hard about an appropriate subtitle for this post. In the end, I decided to include some sarcastic optimism: Jake Delhomme, in his return game against the Carolina Panthers, improved to 1-1 as the starter of the Cleveland Browns. In reality, Delhomme's third quarter was beyond awful, and represents the very reason why some of you have been adament about him not being our starting quarterback.
There were a few individual positives about Delhomme's performance, but I'll talk about those on Tuesday in my full game review. I can't take much joy in the Browns' 24-23 victory over the Carolina Panthers, because unlike the other games this season in which it seemed like we were so close to winning, Cleveland did everything to lose this game.
My emotions can best be described as a roller coaster. In fact, here's a cheap graph of my confidence level throughout the game, assuming that I am in the middle (a ten) to begin the game:
In short, Delhomme and the offense looked pretty darn good in the first half, but then Delhomme single-handedly screwed this team royal in the third quarter. The Browns were able to manage some "ok" drives in the fourth to get the lead back, and a defensive and special teams play seemed to seal the deal against the flustered Jimmy Clausen. The defensive collapse again was unfathomable, and seeing John Kasay miss the field goal to end the game didn't make me feel much better. I'm happy to have another "W" on the board, but not the manner in which it came about. Ugly.
0 recs | 839 comments
Way to lay down with the game on the line………..again.
elsandito - November 28, 2010
So where are we on the QB next week? Delhomme had the 2 bad passes – but otherwise looked good. Cant tolerate the mistakes – my guess is we go Seneca? What say you?
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Hopefully Colt is ready to go next week.
kingcrimson2 - November 28, 2010
As someone who thought Jake should start, I want Seneca to play next week and going forward. The costly mistakes are a bigger killer than anything positive Delhomme brings to the table. He just makes too many big errors.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
Agreed.
kingcrimson2 - November 28, 2010
agreed.
and daboll needs a V8 smack to the face.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
Wallace had some game costing mistakes to, to me it’s a wash.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
He had one game costing mistake in one game. Jake Delhomme has had big mistakes in every game he has been in.
2>1. Basic Math. This is the 2nd pick 6 for Delhomme and Wallace only had 1 Pick 6.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Any is too many. Wallace also overthrows down the sideline, can’t hit out WRs, and scampers OoB for a 3 yd loss. They both have their downsides.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
*our
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Well…I saw delhomme do all of this too. If we are talking big mistakes that were more critical, Delhomme has significantly more.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
So Wallace is a little less lucky than Delhomme. Either way, neither is staring caliber and they are equally as bad as each other imo. In Wallace you have a career backup (for a reason) and in Delhomme you have a (formerly) good vet on a steep decline.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I disagree 100%. I don’t think wallace throws that Pick 6. thats not luck…
bross09 - November 28, 2010
That pick 6 looked so much like Wallace’s earlier this year so I can’t see your argument for this.
Browns town - November 28, 2010
2>1. Wallace threw 1 pick 6 in 4 starts while Delhomme threw 2 in 2 starts.
Plus, just because it looks like a pick 6 wallace threw earlier doesn’t mean that wallace would throw that one. the pick 6 for wallace was the guy stepping in front of the ball and making a good play. this one was much more right at the DB than the wallace pick.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Don’t get me wrong, I would much rather have Wallace over Delhomme, but I still don’t see how you can say Wallace doesn’t throw that pick 6. It’s happened before and it could certainly happen again. The pick 6 Wallace threw was just as bad as Delhomme’s. He stared his receiver down and to top it off, he waited at least a second too long to throw it. Any corner could have made that pick, he didn’t make a good play on it.
Browns town - November 28, 2010
I disagree completely…
And also, Delhomme has thrown 2 pick 6s in 2 games while Wallace thew 1 in 4 starts. statistically, Delhomme is 4 times more likely to throw a pick 6 and going on recent performances before they came to the browns, Delhomme is MUCH more likely to throw an interception in general.
There is a chance that Wallace makes that throw, but I highly doubt he turns that play into a pick 6. Just going on these guy’s performances, it should be clear that it is much more of a pattern of ineptitude with Delhomme.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
statistically speaking you’re using a small sample size, that said even when JD was throwing picks today he looked to be lacking confidence and i had (as important as my opinion is) very little belief that he would be able to make an important play
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
On his first one, he said he completely missed the LB.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
and the second one was a duck to the sideline
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
well obviously we are talking about small sample sizes, whether its wallace or Delhomme for this year…thats why I pointed to past performances.
I also had little belief in Delhomme in his ability to make an important play.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I"m just saying, you said statistically and then tried to prove a point about the performances of the two players.
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
SSS
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
but I do agree that they are both similarly mediocre/sucky
bross09 - November 28, 2010
To me they both have different pros and cons that weigh each other out equally, which is why I think it is a wash. Maybe SLIGHTLY leaning in Wallace’s favor do to him being younger and more mobile, but not that much in his favor to say he is clear cut better.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Whichever a hole proves he won’t cost us games should get the starting nod.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
HA!
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Sounds like we’re going to sign someone off the street than, ha ha.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I’m on-board with a Seneca start if Colt isn’t ready also. I’ve seen enough of Delhomme for the year. Add this to his disastrous season last year and it is pretty obvious his skills are declining. I’ll agree that Seneca isn’t much of an upgrade but I still think he poses less of a chance of giving the game away then Delhomme right now. One thing though… what the heck is the strange mystical connection between Delhomme and Robiskie? Seems Delhomme is the only QB that can find him open.
Brownsyup - November 29, 2010
Yep, lets face it Delhomme is no longer an NFL caliber QB…we all saw it, he looked like Todd Philcox out there.
Red-Right-88 - November 29, 2010
today made me appreciate Colt even more. I seriously hope he’s ready to go next week.
Dawg Nuts - November 28, 2010
let’s be honest … delhomme has THREE pick sixes, counting the ronde barber pick that was taken back to the one-inch line. he’s thrown 1 touchdown to people on his team, and 3 to people on the other team. the guy stinks.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
Precisely. I’ve been saying this for some time now.
Simmsinns - November 30, 2010
This.
Any chance Colt could be back in two weeks or so?
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Right, go with Seneca.
Western Reserve - November 28, 2010
agreed. delhomme just has zero ability to protect the ball … that fumble that st. clair saved his ass on was unreal.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
The problem is...
St Clair only was in position to recover the ball because he got beat by his man, the guy who forced the fumble. So if it wasn’t for the “Human Turnstile”, none of it would have happened in the first place.
TheAnalyst - November 29, 2010
Damn, hopefully we play against a broke ass DE, so St. Clair locks down on him.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
the guy who forced the Fumble, Tyler Brayton, also got his first sack of the season when lined up opposite St. Clair…and he got his first FF.
Charlie Johnson, the guy who St. Clair faced most of the game is solid, but nothing to write home about. Plus, the guy that beat him all the time from the Jaguars is a scrub. St. Clair can’t even lock my 87 year old grandma down (and she is like 5’0’’)
bross09 - November 29, 2010
The other team will just play it’s terrible DL, essentially conceding that Joe Thomas is unreal, while putting their good DL against St. Clair.
I term this “Dumervilling.” The other team will Dumervil their best player over to St. Clair.
rufio - November 30, 2010
rec for Dumervil as a verb.
JustBob - November 30, 2010
It is hard for me not to be excited about some of the things that he is doing.
Then, he goes and has a terrible pick-6.
rufio - November 30, 2010
you obviously didn’t watch too much of the game. It wasn’t just the 2 picks. During the first half of the game, there were several times where he completely missed his receiver, throwing to where they are not where they will be. He was very bad at leading his WR and missed MoMass and Ben Watson on Key plays with bad throws. He was getting completions, but was bailed out quite a few times by good plays by the receiver.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
he’s also the only QB to throw to our WRs all year. No need to overstate your case.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
Yes, while the hate is warranted, he opened up a part of the offense we’ve rarely seen.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
You’re just comparing to Wallace, right?
McCoy would have lit up the field against that sorry ass Panthers secondary.
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
Colt threw to Massaquoi. No need to overstate your case either.
the only thing you can say is that he threw to Robiskie. However for much of the game, they weren’t really guarding Robiskie.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Colt barely threw to MoMass and no shit they were barely covering Robo. Why in the hell would they double cover a #3 receiver?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
MoMass has been getting on average about 6 targets a game since he came back from injury. Jake Delhomme targeted him 7 times today. Is that really THAT much of a difference to say Jake Delhomme is the only QB to throw to our WRs. Robiskie is not our only WR, plus Stuckey got less targets than he normally does…
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Yup. You have a point.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Yes, they decided to not cover him at all and just give us yards.
rufio - November 30, 2010
so other teams were locking down robi and for some reason the panthers decided they didn’t need to? I don’t buy it.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
“Alright, here’s our game plan guys, we guard everyone BUT their #2. See, they don’t throw to him anyways so it’s no big deal. Everyone else guards them but we’re the Panthers, we suck.”
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
during the first half, they were playing their CB about 10 yards deep. Robi’s first couple catches were because of this
bross09 - November 30, 2010
Uh, so? It’s called cushion. We exploited it and the defense couldn’t adjust.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
they did adjust and guarded Robi tighter and he got less targets.
bross09 - November 30, 2010
Well, no duh. The cushion went away.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
Kimble_79 - November 30, 2010
Bross09 you are right. Flea is defending the undefendable. Delhomme has ONE touchdown and 6 INTERCEPTIONS and two have been brought back for touchdowns. The Browns are a worse team with Delhomme in there. There have been times everyone has wanted Wallace to play or McCoy, but NONE of us have been screaming to have Delhomme play at all. Would the Browns lose a thing if Delhomme was cut tomorrow?
champion64 - November 28, 2010
Yeah, a huge Mentor and multiple millions of dollars. Pleas stop with your overreacting.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I like him as a mentor. I agree with the overreacting. I just don’t have confidence with him under the helm.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I agree with this whole statement.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I wasn’t surprised at all when JD threw 1 pick on the next throw he makes. I am just thinking “here we go again”
bross09 - November 28, 2010
rufio - November 30, 2010
Mentoring what? How to telegraph your throws to the opposition? The finer art of the pick-6? I think the Browns should immediately forbid McCoy from riding to work with Delhomme. He’s apt to ruin the kid.
Brownsyup - November 29, 2010
yeah, he might accidentally explain how he led a team to the super bowl!
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
haha rec
North Coast Flea - November 29, 2010
You really are not watching the game. You cannot say that Delhomme is adding to this team. He should have cost this team another game. TELL ME one thing that Delhomme has done on the FIELD to make this team better. AS FAR AS A QUARTERBACK MENTOR, are you not realizing HOLMGREN IS A BROWN???
champion64 - November 28, 2010
Oh, Holmgren played QB in the NFL? News to me.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
No but whom did he mentor and coach in his career? Did you miss that over the years?
champion64 - November 28, 2010
Holmgren has a knack for finding QB talent, yes but I doubt he could mentor as well as a SB QB could.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
He molded Steve Young, Brett Favre, and Hassleback.
champion64 - November 28, 2010
No, no, no. He found them.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
NO NO NO he coach and taught them.
champion64 - November 28, 2010
Well, he of course was their coach.
Also, what you don’t get is that Holmgren HAS A DESK JOB HERE.
He’s no longer a coach.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Ok I will give you that. Delhomme just rubs me the wrong way.
champion64 - November 28, 2010
I don’t think there are many professionals like Delhomme. He is super nice and respectable as a person how does he rub you the wrong way. Just because he’s past his prime? He goes from holding a starting job for 7 years at Carolina to gladly helping a rookie start in his place… most QBs would be flipping a lid. The way he talks in interviews is so humble I can’t help but like the guy. He admits his faults and helps his back-ups even if it means he loses his starting spot.
He should definitely think about coaching or being an OC or something.
crazyL80 - November 28, 2010
I would love to have Delhomme move off the roster and on to the coaching staff.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Has that ever happened? Minus a player getting hurt and basically becoming coach?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Couldn’t tell you.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
This!!!!!!!!!!!!! He’d be a much better coach than player now. The kid can play and I do believe that Jake has helped him. Jake used to have the goods, obviously they aren’t there anymore, so why not impart that knowledge?
J. W. - November 29, 2010
You forgot David Greene.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Ha good one!
champion64 - November 28, 2010
He was the Head Coach, not the QB coach or the veteran playing ahead of those QBs, he had a lot more things to do than just coach up a QB and those said people had a lot to do with their success.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
He was QB coach to Steve Young and Joe Montana (though Montana was already very much an accomplished QB when Holmgren took the job — his claim to fame was turning Steve Young’s talent into an NFL QB).
TheDriveStillHurts - November 28, 2010
I think he did actually.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 28, 2010
Coulda fooled me with the gut. Do you have sources?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Well, fornicate me. He did.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I think his point is that Delhomme helps off the field.
The Browns gain nothing by cutting him now.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Nor would they lose anything. I know they will not cut him now. My point is he is a mistake on the field and of that there is no defending.
champion64 - November 28, 2010
I don’t see anyone defending his on field play.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
do you think he should be kept as a quarterback on this team after this year? I say he should not
champion64 - November 28, 2010
Hells to the no, but that is a completely different question.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
OK lets go with next year. Maybe by then we can add a better quality back up.
champion64 - November 28, 2010
of course we don’t want him next year, but why in the hell would we cut him now? bottom line – he’s helping Mccoy grow and is still probably the best option while McCoy is out. Any QBs sitting at home right now are there for a reason.
Dawg Nuts - November 28, 2010
Greg Brinda on the radio in cleveland seemed to be defending his play. He complimented delhomme somehow and then went on to call for rob ryan’s head.
This is why talk radio/tv news sucks.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Rob Ryan’s defense sucked today.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
thats a vast overstatement.
the defense had trouble bringing down the ballcarrier, but I don’t there was a problem with playcalling or coaching that I could definitively say. the browns have had more trouble with this type of back (bigger, pounding backs who also have solid speed and elusiveness); Mendenhall, Turner, and Stewart.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Tackling was terrible across the board, I no longer see any amoeba D or anything creative.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I saw some creativity with blitzes, but we are going to say he isn’t calling the right plays because a defense that is the equivalent of an offensive trick play (nice once or twice but doesn’t work more often than that…if it does work) he isn’t calling the right plays?
Is the bad tackling his fault? It might be in some way his fault, but should we call for the firing of him because guys aren’t tackling? that would be a bit ridiculous.
the D had trouble against a back who has proven to be pretty darn good when healthy. They also were very solid in the secondary today IMO and they generated a good pass rush that kept clausen from getting into a rhythm
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Who in the hell said I was calling for his firing? Not me. The D just kind of sucked today, minus Haden And Ward’s hit for loss, too bad he blew a TD.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
who blew the TD by the way?
I disagree even take away that Rob Ryan was able to get excellent pressure on Clausen. Matt Roth made good plays rushing the passer and against the run. I think our main problem today was up the middle. Tuba Rubin and Shaun Rogers played well, but besides them our D-Line was not playing particularly well.
There were specific parts of the Defense that didn’t play particularly well, but the D as a whole wasn’t too bad. It wasn’t a great performance but I would not classify it as “bad”
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Ward took a terrible read on the TD and blew it.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Ah. I didn’t catch that.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Ward filled the A gap and the RB took the C gap.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Gotta be in 3rd and long for amoeba D to work.
Shaun Rogers did play at least one down (3rd and long) as a LB against Carolina—and it worked.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Seemed like he was involved in those drives that put us up 21-7. If you can’t see that you are blind or,
, because I sure as hell didn’t see Hillis run the ball every play for the first half of the game.North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Delhomme is the reason the game was close
champion64 - November 28, 2010
So Delhomme made Moore fumble the ball? Did he also make the call to go for it on 4th and 1? I imagine Delhomme was behind every big play the D gave up too.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
In my opinion a veteran quarteback brought in to steady a young team should have been able to control this game when they were up 21-7. But 2 interceptions later it was alot closer than it had to be. Hillis again did all he could.
champion64 - November 28, 2010
We are going to end up killing Hillis.
Western Reserve - November 28, 2010
If he doesn’t end up killing himself with his hurdling act, that is.
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
like, literally. he’s got about another 20 games in him at this rate.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
I am terrified of this.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Yeah. And in addition to running like a maniac, he’s our leading receiver (#1 in receptions, #2 in yards). That’s amazing.
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
No, that’s bad.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
Bad stuff can be amazing, too…
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
I had a mexican friend when I lived in Willard that would always say “Ah man, check this out! It’s bad!” when in reality, he meant “It’s awesome!” It’s kinda funny.
shep615 - November 30, 2010
Actually history says that RBs that carry the ball 300 times/season (I think this was the threshold) get destroyed, except when they also break a certain threshold of receptions.
I don’t know why, but someone did the study. I can stop being lazy and look it up if you want.
rufio - December 1, 2010
It is the curse of 370.
Bernie19Kosar - December 1, 2010
That’s it.
rufio - December 2, 2010
I also once was looking up when many RBs hit a wall. It is generally between 2100 and 2400 carries. Guys like Hillis generally last less carries because they take more hits, while an elusive back like an LT can withstand more touches before they break down. Also, I have noticed that like Bernie pointed out, RBs that touch the ball a lot in a short time period break down quicker (like 1800 carries). Ones like Thomas Jones tend to have good longevity.
bross09 - December 1, 2010
Moore’s fumble was a result of a stupidly designed play. I saw that fumble coming as soon as he threw the pass.
HenryDawg - November 29, 2010
So Moore’s fumble was Daboll’s fault, as opposed to Moore’s failure to secure the ball or Carolina’s efforts to strip the ball? Seriously?
woodsmeister - November 29, 2010
OC is an easy scapegoat. Always has been.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
that’s because he’s a moron, at times.
or he waters stuff down or compromises for the greater scheme of things.
it simply doesn’t work.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
Yup. But I’ve never heard anyone blame a fumble on an OC for a poorly designed play.
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
i like replying to immediate comments w/o reading their context.
the fumble was not daboll’s fault.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
I agree. If a guy fumbles, its the OCs fault. if our guys can’t tackle, it can’t be that they arent good tacklers but the reaction is always to fire the DC. Coordinators/Coaches are easy scapegoats
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I’d prefer they run there, but, sure, Moore has to protect the football. Really, we were fortunate someone didn’t return that 95 yards the other way.
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
Just when I thought I had heard everything….
golanbatrac - November 29, 2010
I heard someone at the game say this. Then again, they criticized daboll too for kicking the FG on 4th and 1 down 23-21…
bross09 - November 29, 2010
It wasn’t a pass play.
It was actually a run play that Delhomme changed at the snap. Look at the rest of the players, it was a run play to the left. You see a lot of QB’s do this.
Bernie19Kosar - November 29, 2010
Except Seneca Wallace. Dude would run a truck into a wall, even if he could turn it and save himself.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
this annoys me to no end.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
He didn’t change the play exactly, it is a simultaneous run/pass call.
You look at the alignment of the CB/pass defender and based on that and numbers in the box the QB just makes a sight adjustment on the snap.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Wrong, teams do this all the time and it is cheap, free yardage and first downs.
If you run the ball well, you have to protect your runs. This is how you protect your runs.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Hillis was very responsible for those drives too. Plus, I thought Delhomme looked shaky the first half and was bailed multiple times by great plays by WRs for big gains.
Delhomme also killed our momentum with the first pick he threw (and essentially, the panthers got the ball to start the 1st and 2nd halves) and the pick 6 was the only reason the panthers were in this game.
I call his contributions a net wash at best…anything he did to make them better was negated by his bad plays.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Mainly I was just pointing out how much c64 was overreacting(which he has a tendency to do), but saying Delhomme’s pick six is the only reason the Panthers were in the game is a huge exaggeration.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I agree he was overreacting.
I disagree on it being a huge exaggeration. Look at the game at that point. the browns were up 21-13 and had just stopped the panthers and gotten the ball back in great field position. Up to that point, the game had not been completely one sided, but the browns had controlled most of the game (after their 2nd TD at least…).
I guess you can say that they were in the game when it was 21-13 but it didn’t really feel like they were in it until it was 21-20. That changed it to being a much closer game.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
What I’m saying is there were other things that helped them stay in the game. Delhomme’s pick six was just one of them, not the only one.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
obviously it wasn’t the ONLY factor but I guess I considered it the most significant factor by far.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
You are all wrong. Those drives would have died without the Carolina penalties. Even when this team was playing well, they still needed help from the other team to get to the end zone.
JustBob - November 29, 2010
Too true.
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
those things are penalties for a reason. they give one team an unfair advantage. maybe if they aren’t committed some plays end up differently.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
exactly…but its still missing the point that Delhomme was getting too much credit for the 3 TDs. even on those drives, he looked shaky and had some bad misses.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
he also made a lot of good plays that we haven’t seen out of Colt. I don’t want Delhomme playing any more either, but again, no need to overstate your case.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
which plays did he make that we saw out of colt? take away the INTs and I thought their decision making and made plays is very comparable.
The only difference is that Delhomme is the only guy who forces the ball to Robiskie when he is tightly covered.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
What we’ve seen from Delhomme that we haven’t seen from anyone else this year is our QB actually throwing to receivers, i.e. we didn’t see this from Colt, to answer your question. From what I saw, there is little doubt of that. The problem is, Delhomme just isn’t very good anymore and makes too many mistakes. But he does at least know how to play the position.
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
ok, just stop. up above you said they were barely covering him and now you say delhomme was forcing it when he was tightly covered. if you can’t get your argument straight I don’t want to hear it.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
first few passes, they were backing the CB up 8-10 yards. then after a few catches by Robi, they were putting tighter coverage on him.
bross09 - November 30, 2010
It’s called playing a different coverage, They went to cover 2/c2 man a lot in the second half and we were idiots about it. We adjusted later in the game once we realized we needed to actually get more first downs.
rufio - December 1, 2010
Fixed.
JustBob - November 30, 2010
thats actually not true. people have been saying it but he barely threw to MoMass more than the 3 games when MoMass and Colt were both on the field all game.
in 2 games, Delhomme threw to the TEs 17 times. In 5 games, Colt threw to the TEs 34 times
In 2 games Delhomme threw to Hillis 13 times. In 5 games Colt threw to Hillis 25 times.
If we want to break it down to throws, Colt threw to the TEs 1 in every 3.7 throws he made whereas Delhomme threw to the TEs 1 in every 3.9.
Colt threw it to Hillis about every 5.1 throws whereas Jake threw it to Hillis every 5.25 throws.
These numbers are a bit rounded, and it is a small sample size, but the closeness of the numbers shows how ridiculous it is that everyone is claiming colt didn’t throw to the WRs while delhomme does.
bross09 - November 30, 2010
Well done. And thank you.
burntorangeandbrown - November 30, 2010
your stats still show delhomme throwing to WRs more often.
more importantly, he’s completing passes to WRs, something Colt didn’t do as much.
notthatnoise - December 1, 2010
His stats only show TE’s and Hillis, not WR’s. Also you have to keep in mind that its 2 games for Delhomme vs 5 games for Colt, so you have to compare them with averages as Bross did above, not totals. They average damn near the same. I would like to see these stats for actual WR’s though.
Kimble_79 - December 1, 2010
its definitely a SSS, but it goes more to the point that there is not a huge statistical difference.
I don’t know stats for WRs. I do know that when Jake was starting, we threw about 3 more passes a game total so I am guessing those 3 passes a game did go to the WRs. However, looking at targets for our most consistent WR during this time (MoMass), the targets are pretty much the same. (both about 7 a game).
bross09 - December 1, 2010
one thing I did notice: Seneca does NOT target MoMass. Seneca has as many targets of MoMass in 4 starts as Colt had in his most recent.
bross09 - December 1, 2010
just barely, not enough to base an argument that he clearly throws more to the WRs.
Plus, this is also very skewed by the one game where MoMass was injured against the Saints. In that game, Robiskie was the #1 and Stuckey was the #2. Delhomme was never in that situation and once you take out the targets from that game, its pretty much even.
Well, thats not true for MoMass. MoMass’ Catch rate in the Delhomme starts is 46% while his catch rate in McCoy starts is 56%
Delhomme MAY be slightly better at getting the balls to the WRs, but the statistics really don’t support this and its not enough to base an opinion, that so many feel strongly about, on.
bross09 - December 1, 2010
Part of the way we have to win/Mangini wants to build this team is to play flawlessly and let the other teams mess up. This is strategic.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I actually can point to several things Delhomme did on the field to help the team and I actually planned on doing so before classes got back in the way.
The real point with Jake is that the pick-6’s completely undermine anything positive he does. You just can’t do that and have a good chance to win.
rufio - November 30, 2010
The play where he pulled away from a sack, ran away from another and did the shovel pass to Hillis was nice.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
So … our receivers are good? (Sorry, fellas. Mixing argument streams)
JustBob - November 29, 2010
uh … no.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
hahaha. I don’t think I fully understand your feelings on this. Care to explain?
rufio - November 30, 2010
/ sarc
rufio - November 30, 2010
my position on the receivers is riddled w/ nuance, layered w/ complexity, and sprinkled w/ a bit of uncertainty …
DontCallMeJoey - November 30, 2010
Ah. Just like the receivers themselves. Very deep.
JustBob - November 30, 2010
our WRs made some good plays. I am not sure if I would call them good. Ben Watson made a couple nice catches on bad throws. MoMass made 1 or two also. Hillis made a couple.
I am not set to call them good, but they had a solid game.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I think the biggest down side to going with Wallace is that our WRs won’t be seeing any more balls thrown their way – unless you want to count the horrendous uncatchable ones down the side lines. Even so, it’s hard to argue in favor of Delhomme at this point. Can we re-sign Ratty (or anyone) until Colt gets healthy again?
JustBob - November 29, 2010
I don’t want Delhomme to play again. I hope we can all agree here. His mistakes are just game-killing. They come at crucial times and lead to points for the other team.
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
Yes, it’s time to close the book on JD.
elsandito - November 28, 2010
Tend to agree. Not like he is a rookie learning the ropes – seems it is an unfortunate part of his game.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Your boy, ET with a special teams TD
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
Great! Wish there was a way we could get ET, Ward, and Haden in Brown and Orange.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Who is ET? Eric Turner
HenryDawg - November 28, 2010
Earl Thomas.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
That would be quite a feat for Mr. Turner.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Straight from his couch to the endzone. He always seemed to have a nose for it.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
They have couches in heaven?
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
Shit, I forgot about that, sad way to go.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
way to poop on everything.
Dawg Nuts - November 28, 2010
So just got home and I’m hoping the consensus is that JD gets his gold watch?
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
Yup, we seem to agree.
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
I will have to say that the lack of tackling and the defensive breakdowns at the end of the game piss me off just as much as JD picks. Really a troubling tendency about the D.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Agree, it’s a bit bizarre. D plays very well all game until the game is on the line at the end.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
I didn’t think the D played all that well. I’ve never seen a team give up so many first downs on third and long.
elsandito - November 28, 2010
the D IMO had a decent game. the tackling was bad, but the pass coverage I thought was very good for most of the game. the tackling was not good, especially at the end and they need to stop going for the strip.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
goodson could have kept going, too. we got quite lucky that he stumbled when someone grabbed his towel/jersey/pants. that play looked exactly like the MJD play. it was awful.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
The tackling was very, very bad.
Simmsinns - November 28, 2010
tackling was god awful today
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
I’ve been saying it all week… he HURTS the team more than he helps it. Ball security seems to be a something of very little importance to him at all.
Simmsinns - November 28, 2010
ah well.
let’s drop the suckyness and move on, if at all possible.
this is getting ridiculous.
who do we play next?
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
Miami.
we need to cut the crap if we hope to compete with them.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
They are beatable. Struggled at home this year, and if Brandon Marshall is still hurt, I like our chances.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
people seem to think they are a pushover.
Miami, even with injuries, is a MUCH more solid team than Carolina and Jax.
hopefully, we step UP to their level.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
I’d take Jacksonville over Miami.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
what do you mean? as being a better team?
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
Isn’t Miami down to their 12th string QB?
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Henne is playing right now.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
Uh what? He was supposed to be out for the year.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
It was reported that when he was first injured that he was done for the season, but he was never placed on IR and has since come back.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
I don’t like the Browns chances with Henne playing.
Brownsyup - November 29, 2010
Huh? Henne sucks. Only reason they don’t play Penny is because he’s more fragile than a vase.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
and he is out for the year.
BrutalMovement - November 29, 2010
and for his life. that guy’s career is over.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
Yea, let’s keep in mind that he got benched for Chad Pennington prior to getting injured.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
Yes.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
I agree with you — Jacksonville is better than Miami.
Buckeye Brad - November 28, 2010
Indeed.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
you guys are on crack.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
Miami has no running game
Miami has no receivers who are a threat deep. Brandon Marshall and Bess are both posession guys who have 7 and 6 plays of 20+ yards respectively. Here are some players that have about as many big plays as them: Witten, Cooley, Shipley, Collie, Derrick Mason, Ben Watson.
Jacksonville has a veteran QB who is good, they have a running game, and they have solid WRs.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Dawg Nuts - November 28, 2010
We always seem to do this, don’t we? Play down or up to the other team’s level?
rufio - November 30, 2010
What would one call dominating the Saints and Patriots though?
Roger Dorn - November 30, 2010
He probably would consider those instances of playing up, as opposed to down. But I don’t want to put words in the man’s mouth.
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
Playing up to their levels and beyond?
So maybe not always, but a large portion of this season I would say we played up/down to the other team.
rufio - December 1, 2010
Yes, its very irritating. Consistency at a high level would be something to see wouldn’t it? Blow out a team that your supposed to and battle it out with teams your supposed to, ect…
Kimble_79 - November 30, 2010
My optimism for the Browns centers on Colt and for that I thank the Atlanta Falcons for drafting that DT (Peters?) that Heckert was going to select instead of Colt.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
I will probably mention this in my game review, but why are we seeing Ray Ventrone come in and play so much at safety the past couple of weeks?
Chris Pokorny - November 28, 2010
That’s a good point, seems like he is the guy that is making the tackle on big plays allowed as well meaning he potentially was the victim.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
Absolutely love Ventrone on Special teams.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
While bizarre – I really feel if he wasn´t in that game – Goodson would have scampered for the TD – I believe that Ray was the guy who finally tackled that SOB.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
I think the fact that
a) we have 3 healthy CBs
b) Nick Sorensen is worse.
We have no depth in the defensive backfield and if we need to go 6 D-Backs and one needs a breather, we play ventrone over Sorensen.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Yup — I was assuming he is taking over for some of Adams’ safety duties. Wonder how Assante is doing on the practice squad (if he is still on it).
TheDriveStillHurts - November 28, 2010
I think he is on it still. I hope he is doing well. I wish we didn’t have to play ventrone, but thats better than killing our players.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Did Mike Furrey get signed? He did dam good job at S. Maybe when Cribbs is completely healthy he could pitch in.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Furrey was not that good at S.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I don’t know, but I don’t like it.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
He has been beat the past three weeks in coverage.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
like he stole something. there’s gotta be someone selling cars somewhere who is better than him, no?
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
I think if you give me 3 weeks and the playbook I could be better than Ventrone. On normal teams, of course.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Wow, so you’ve played Pee Wee football?
elsandito - November 30, 2010
Injuries. I hate having him in the game. He can’t cover and he seems to lose his ability to tackle when he isn’t playing ST.
rufio - November 30, 2010
another thing: near the end, the refs made 2 mistakes: first, if clausen went to the line and spiked the ball, they can’t go back and look at the previous catch, could they? isn’t that what bottlegate was all about? also, when they reviewed the catch, and confirmed it as complete, why did the clock stop? he wasn’t out of bounds when he was down.
davus - November 28, 2010
Two answers:
1. You could hear and see the referee blowing the whistle just before Clausen took the snap.
2. The ruling on the field was that Lafell caught the pass and then rolled out of bounds before he was touched. Therefore, the clock stopped. The reason Clausen wanted to spike it is so the booth couldn’t review it, not because he wanted to stop the clock. Upon replay, It did indeed look like Lafell got out of bounds just before we tagged him down.
Chris Pokorny - November 28, 2010
ah, alright.
davus - November 28, 2010
I actually think it looked like we touched him down in bounds, but the announcers were saying that the clock aspect wasn’t reviewable.
dgcambridge - November 28, 2010
It looked like the touch came before the catch. IMO
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
No other team in the NFL would let a guy catch the sideline pass and roll out of bounds.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
We didn’t. He was touched before he went out of bounds. At least that’s the way I saw it.
Western Reserve - November 28, 2010
agreed. i thought it was clear (on replay, anyway) that brown touched him before he rolled out of bounds. which is why i’m not sure i feel so bad about losing on a missed FG … that kick, quite literally, never should have happened.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
Exactly, they were already tangled up when he rolled out.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
no they were not. I personally think he was touched, but it is far from clear.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
I thought there was contact with him the whole time; before, during, and after the catch.
rufio - December 1, 2010
it’s hard to tell on the replay, but it looks like after the catch is made and he starts his roll they are not in contact. It looks, to me, as if they touch at some point during the roll, but I can definitely understand not overturning it.
notthatnoise - December 1, 2010
They couldn’t have overturned it, could they have? In terms of making the clock run?
rufio - December 2, 2010
you are correct. they couldn’t have overruled the clock
DontCallMeJoey - December 2, 2010
The coverage by the defense was actually pretty good. That was just a great throw by Clausen and a great catch by LaFell.
Buckeye Brad - November 28, 2010
You have to know they are going to run Smash there. Or at least be ready for it. Classic cover-2 beater and you get routes near the sideline.
rufio - November 30, 2010
They were colliding long before he rolled out of bounds is what it looked like to me. The FG attempt should have never happened.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
There is no way he got out of bounds. Absolutely no question. For one thing, there was contact by a defender as he was going to the ground, so he was down as soon as his knee hit. Even if the referee missed that, he was touched before he ever touched the sideline.
Chemo - November 28, 2010
Yes. That’s what I saw, too.
Western Reserve - November 28, 2010
2. But its still a bad decision to do for the refs because of the way the rules are because you can’t take away time but you can add time on the clock under review. So if the play goes under review and it was ruled in bounds and its out of bounds, they can add seconds on the clock for the FG. However, if he is in bounds but they call him out, it is unreviewable and we are screwed. That is why they should ALWAYS make the other call (the one not made) just to be safe.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Last post of the day… anyone dare predict a record at the end of the season? I think we can win 3 more games for a respectable 7-9. We beat Miami, Buffalo and either Pittsburgh or Baltimore.
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
This team is capable of losing every game. The D never seems to get stops with the game on the line.
elsandito - November 28, 2010
The offense never seems to step up to keep the game off the line.
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
I’d say our defense plays tough for 3 quarters. The offense plays well for 2.
dgcambridge - November 28, 2010
More like 1 1/2.
johnnyphoenix - November 28, 2010
Offense plays well for 3 drives, the opposing team makes adjustments at halftime, we look completely confused that they would make those adjustments and don’t adjust ourselves until late in the 4th quarter.
Looking for a funny comment to make about “adjusting ourselves” but can’t come up with one right now.
rufio - November 30, 2010
"adjusting ourselves"
nuff said.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
The opposite is also true.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
All I’m sayin is it’s time to stop being surprised when the D allows that last drive score resulting in a loss. The last 2 games were a showcase for having the opponent pinned deep in their own territory with very little time remaining. The number of outcomes resulting in a stop are far greater than the opponent having favorable field position with plenty of time to work.
elsandito - November 29, 2010
Yea, that was unacceptable. Haden made what should have been a game winning play as well.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
Was Vickers even in to block for the carries after Haden’s INT?
JustBob - November 29, 2010
This team is also capable of winning every game.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Buffalo also plays to lose.
We can take them.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
Their tendency for success has been nightmarish for us; they get in a deep hole early, then come roaring back, then blow it or win in the final minutes.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Yeah, and we get out early and slowly fade away. Should be a match-up for the ages.
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
Who had the idea to start Jake for the first half then insert Seneca in the second half before Jake starts to throw INTs? The Browns are all about gimmicks this year, somebody should SMS Mangini.
Monsters of the Midway - November 30, 2010
You still use the abb. SMS?
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
You lost me at abb?
SMS, Google tells me that’s text messaging, right?
Monsters of the Midway - November 30, 2010
Abbreviation. SMS is the extremely old way to say text message. No one uses it and it confounds people haha.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
I think SMS is still a commonly used term in Europe.
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
Ha, Europe.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
Yeah, you know…
Western Reserve - November 30, 2010
That was me.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
I’m sticking with my ten win prediction.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
Rec
Matt Y. - November 28, 2010
You forgot about the Bungles. We play them before we play Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
JDfromCLE - November 29, 2010
seems to me he’s saying the bungles will beat us this time. which i don’t think is crazy.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
Hard to beat the same team twice.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Tell that to the Steelers in 02. Ugh, I feel dirty now.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
Assuming there is football next year – I would gladly swap a 4th rounder for Steve Smith to finish his career in Cleveland.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
heck yes.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
Thank you! I started a very long thread on the first half arguing this.
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
I would gladly give up a 5th, no way on a 3rd, iffy on a 4th.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
A fourth round pick would be fine, but definitely not a second round pick. You don’t give up a 2nd round pick for a guy as old as Smith.
Buckeye Brad - November 28, 2010
seriously though, can we make trade offers for Larry Fitzgerald, like, now?
Let’s pull the trigger.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, outside of a select few players, I would be offering anything AZ wants for Fitz. That said, the trade deadline is long past, so we will have to wait. May make for an interesting offseason though.
Browns town - November 29, 2010
he is a FA in the offseason, so no trade is necessary. we just sign him.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
No, he’s a FA the offseason after this one Bross.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
actually this has been talked about on a thread here and I am pretty sure this next offseason he will be a FA.
He has a No Trade Clause anyways so if he is under contract in 2011, that makes this all moot really.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
He has a No Franchise Tag Clause, and if he wants traded, he’s allowed to forgo the No Trade Clause if there even is any.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Obviously if he wants to be traded, he can forego it. I am pretty sure the whole point of an NTC is so the team doesn’t trade the player unless he wants to go. Unless he suddenly declares he wants to come to cleveland, its pretty much moot for a while then.
I didn’t know about the No Franchise Tag Clause.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I think he’s been laying hints that he wants traded. DA doesn’t help him staying.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I can definitely see that, though I believe he would have to approve the trade destination too.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Colt McCoy + no true #1 should look like heaven to Fitz.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
yes. I do believe it would be the perfect situation. He has a young QB who is accurate, he has other good complementary WRs (I am still convinced MoMass can be a good #2 if he has a #1 beside him) that are young, a great offensive line, and a good running game to set up the play action.
In Arizona, even if DA didn’t suck, the line doesn’t protect enough right now for routes to develop downfield consistently. There is also a non-existent running game so teams pretty much double cover Fitz. In cleveland, teams can’t afford to put a Safety on FItz because then Hillis breaks one up the middle for 30 yards.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
then there’s the little matter of the 4-7 record…
DontCallMeJoey - November 30, 2010
And you thought DA would never help the Browns.
elsandito - November 30, 2010
Ha!
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/wr.html
This lists notable WRs set to hit free agency… I’d guess Fitz would make that list if he was going to hit free agency.
Let’s figure out how to trade for him.
shep615 - November 29, 2010
Haha, thank you for the reinforcement.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
No problem. I stand for truth and justice.
shep615 - November 29, 2010
Yet you go to a Christian school… instantrimshot.com
OH YES I DID!
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
HA! Fair enough, fair enough. A lot of times Christian schools can talk a good talk about the truth, but very few people actually live it. Touche.
shep615 - November 29, 2010
hopefully you aren’t saying I was lying and/or unjust.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Oh heavens no! A little mistaken (if that website is legit… I assume it is, but I could be wrong), but not lying or unjust.
shep615 - November 29, 2010
yeah. I didn’t think so, but just wanted to check.
Yeah, I think I was probably mistaken. I have never looked it up myself but took the word of whatever people were saying there.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Congrats guys
If circumstances had been slightly different you guys could be on a big win streak right now.
I think this franchise will only improve.
Bro Namath - November 28, 2010
still waiting for that proof from the other thread btw.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
Just let it die, he made a mistake and we misconstrued it.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
We both know it’s not gonna happen.
Browns town - November 28, 2010
I had to stop looking for IRL issues beyond finding specific posts for you to pick at
I’m still looking and i’ll paste a couple in my sig when I do.
Bro Namath - November 28, 2010
So I guess no one is going to drop it eh?
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I’ll shut up now.
Bro Namath - November 28, 2010
This offense would be screwed without Hillis and Vickers.
Vickers should of been in on the 4th and 1 and we might have converted. When the press asked Mangini why Vicker’s wasn’t in, he gave some excuse about spreading it out… wtf is that
Clevo's Finest - November 28, 2010
in short: I’m tired of the poor offensive play calling
Clevo's Finest - November 28, 2010
a thousand times, rec.
what the HELL would we not utilize Vickers?
these attempts to ’change things up" for whatever dumb reasons (future teams scouting us) are absolutely asenine.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
did the poor offensive playcalling force Delhomme to throw 2 picks or did it make Evan Moore fumble. the offense made bad mistakes in crucial situations and thats why it was close…not the playcalling.
The playcalling was in fact much more creative than in previous games. I like the way the playcalling utilized hillis and utilized all our weapons in the passing game.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Playcalling did have Jake Delhomme throw 35 passes in a game where we lead almost the entire game.
Bernie19Kosar - November 29, 2010
I don’t think there was a serious problem with the amount we passed. Yeah, we could have passed less but the Pass/Run ratio was basically 50/50. Its somewhat of a conundrum for the coaching staff. If we pass it 35 times a game with Jake, people will complain like you did, that we needed to run it more. If we run it more, that is giving hillis more carries and people will say we are overworking him. Personally, I am satisfied with the balance and I don’t want to see Hillis run for much more than 25 times a game.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
how bout vickers?
or one of those several talented RB’s we started off with?
come on now.
even Carolina has a decent guy to pick up garbage time.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
Yes. we need someone to give hillis a rest.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
But most of that passing is what gave us the lead in the first place. Our passing game was working well in the first half and that’s a big part of the reason we scored 3 TD’s (and could have easily had another one before Moore’s fumble).
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
Also; YPA 6.3, YPC 4.8.
With Delhomme in, I want that passing premium high at 3 yards/play. The <2 yards/play we were getting doesn’t make it worth it, especially when you are averaging a first down every two runs.
Interestingly, Carolina also had 6.3 YPA but 5.6 YPC. We can not be happy with that YPC number.
rufio - November 30, 2010
that YPC number scares me.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
Maybe our worst defensive performance all year.
rufio - December 1, 2010
Our offense would be screwed without our best offensive player?
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
Say what???
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Well I never!
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
he seems like our only offensive player sometimes and if he carries this much I am worried about what we do when he get’s injured.. it’s a scary thought, that is all.
Clevo's Finest - November 28, 2010
He doesn’t carry as much as you assume. If his carries stay constant, they look no more than any other backs. But yes, we need better back ups to spell him. Bell’s good carries today were just compliments of the Panthers.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
but there’s no arguing that his carries are MUCH higher impact than the average running back. while he may not carry the ball more in absolute terms, his carries take a greater toll.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
That isn’t the team’s fault though, we aren’t doing it to him, he is. It’s uncontrollable from that aspect.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
sure, but to the extent that we want to maximize his production over an extended period of time (and limit his injuries / time missed) we need to take that into account.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
But the best way to do this is to get him a backup. We’ve tried thrice and the jury is still out on one of them.
rufio - November 30, 2010
totally agreed.
DontCallMeJoey - November 30, 2010
I’m less worried about him getting injured due to carries and more concerned he will get injured doing his awesome leap-frog moves.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
Joe Thomas is not happy about this.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Hillis is an awesome back. Your FO made a brilliant move for him.
Bro Namath - November 28, 2010
If you remember, his play for Denver killed Mangini’s Jets. Hillis started the Downfall that year for Mangini.
J. W. - November 29, 2010
Yup and Seneca Wallace starting for Coach Mike Holmgren’s Seahawks finished them off.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 29, 2010
After the game Mangini says “Men, who thinks we beat the Dolphins next week?” all hands shoot up. Then Mangini says “Men – who thinks Jake should start next week?” All hands go down except for Robiskie´s.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Interesting troll thread during the game I see.
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
Wasn’t meant that way.
A bringing it back doesn’t do anybody any favors.
Bro Namath - November 28, 2010
apologies, i was late to the party
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
Let me guess. The Steelers’ shitty win will be looked on as miraculous by them, while our shitty win will look like a total collapse of effort and suckiness, right?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
if not the media will be sure to shape it that way for us.
Bro Namath - November 28, 2010
In my eyes, a dropped TD bomb= a shanked field goal. Their win looks just as bad but I doubt it will be strewn as that.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
their win looks way worse to me…they almost lost to the Bills. If we had their talent and almost lost to the Bills some people might be contemplating suicide.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
The Bills’ O is lightyears ahead of Carolina’s and their D looked much better than Carolina’s today.
ahowie - November 28, 2010
right but my point is that (pains me to type this) the Steelers O and D are lightyears ahead of ours.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
still cant believe that pretty pass was dropped. I keep hearing calls for Buffalo to draft a QBOTF next year. I think they already have one. I would gladly add Fitz to this team if Buffalo dont want him.
J. W. - November 29, 2010
If Buffalo passes on Luck because they have Fitzpatrick, they are nuts.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
It’s not that nuts. Defense is a much more pressing need for that team. And in the teams current state, I honestly don’t see Luck winning them any games that they would have otherwise lost with Fitz.
Simmsinns - November 29, 2010
Sorry, I should clarify. First, if you don’t have a franchise QB and think that guy will be a franchise QB, you take him no matter how many needs you have. If they think Luck has potential to be a top 10 QB, you take him no matter what.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
I wonder if carolina or buffalo will get that first pick though.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Don’t forget about Cincy. They’ve lost 8 in a row and are only one game ahead of Carolina.
It would interesting to see what they do with the first pick if they get it. Palmer is owed a lot of money next year and he’s clearly not an elite QB any more — do they cut him and pick Luck?
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
I think they should, but it wouldn’t certainly be a slap in the face to Palmer, but I doubt that will make any kind of difference in this league.
Simmsinns - November 29, 2010
Typo: should be “would” not “wouldn’t”.
Simmsinns - November 29, 2010
palmer was on the express train to “elite” qb before that knee explosion … while it seems like he’s recovered physically since then, he’s just not the same qb. shame.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
I think the ligament damage did more to his career than te Knee injury. He recovered from the Knee injury and was still a very good QB but hasn’t been the same since that ligament/tendon damage in his elbow.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
good point. i had forgotten about the elbow situation.
still seems like he has the physical tools, though. his mediocrity is a mystery to me.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
I think he just lost something with the elbow injury. He seems more hesitant making decisions and makes them a bit slower. He also has less zip.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I don’t like Palmer so no shame for me :)
Simmsinns - November 30, 2010
If they get the first overall pick, this wouldn’t be that shocking. Mike Brown is very cheap.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Agree 100% Worst case you end up looking like San Diego.
rufio - November 30, 2010
very true. even in cleveland, the talk radio people are calling for cleaning house of the coaching staff…
bross09 - November 28, 2010
How do you know this? You live in Buffalo.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I have been in cleveland for a while…
I was also at the game too.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
You sure got to your computer fast, haha.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
SB runs off Pacific time NCF.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
yeah I know that, the game ended around 4:30-5:00 no?
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Yeah, that’s why it says PST.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Bravo.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
which is 5:38 in the time zone the browns play. This was right when I came home from the game.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
See above.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Do you disagree that our win was a shitty win?
TheDriveStillHurts - November 28, 2010
What? No, that’s why I called it a shitty win, Jesus.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Buffalo is a lot better than Carolina, but in the media, the Steelers shit gold bricks. Still, at this point, teams like the Steelers and Jets consistently end up on the right side of close games and we usually don’t – not sure what the answer is, but we can’t really blame the media. If we won those games we should have, we would be getting the love.
HenryDawg - November 28, 2010
Oh, so Bruce Gradcowski started for Oakland? News to me and my fantasy team…
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I did let you know on the fantasy thread…but I guess you didn’t catch that until now.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Well, damn. I have no starting QB.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
that does suck. For a while, I had no WRs, but luckily hit on Steve Johnson.
It figures though, that the week after I finally drop Hines Ward, he gets 100+ yards.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
no offense, but why in the world are you starting Oakland’s qb, regardless of who it is.?
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
All I had and Campbell had a huge game a few weeks ago.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Who did you draft?
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Romo.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Damn.
StuckInPa - November 28, 2010
On the bright side – Hillis and Vickers is just a lethal combo that make our offense just a load. One more beastie OL on the right side and the team will be extremely difficult to stop.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
on the bright side, we need to use Vickers in every game.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
on the un-bright side … we should never throw another pass to vickers. ever.
DontCallMeJoey - November 29, 2010
I’ve been screaming for this like, forever. I just wish we had Holmgren and Heckert in the front office a year earlier. We wasted 2 second round picks ( I like MoMass), and could of already had our bookend tackle (Loadholt). There are a lot of talented college players outside of the Big10, & a few decent Oline coming out in the next draft.
J. W. - November 29, 2010
Loadholt is not very good and neither was the entire 2009 draft class.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
gotta love the nit picking on this site.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
I’m not sure if you are referring to him or me, but I don’t lost sleep over missing out on average at best players.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
he was just saying he wish we had our front office earlier.
whatevs.
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
Partially, the part I didn’t disagree with.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
You mean the cherry picking? We could have also had Tom Brady in the 6th round if we weren’t idiots.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Peyton Hillis is awesome (obviously). In his post-game interview he basically gave all the credit for his success to the O-Line and Vickers. He also said one of the running backs he admired growing up was Barry Sanders (my fav RB). Gotta love Hillis.
As for the game, although it was a bad win, it was nice to see the Browns getting a break for once. With all the games where we needed that one play to go our way, it finally did. Yeah, we probably should have lost, and the win doesn’t feel all that great, but I’ll take it anyway. Nice to see Robiskie show up with 7 catches too.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
Is there really such a thing as a bad win in the NFL for a 3-7 team? Think we should enjoy this one and not sweat the details.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
You’re right, bad wording on my part. I guess I meant ugly win. My main point was that I’m enjoying it. Being Browns fans we need to enjoy all the wins we can.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
That BQ for Hillis deal saved the season from a watchability standpoint. That guy is fun to watch. Comparing him to Alstott is a joke – who did Alstott ever hurdle? Hidden by this guys brute power and light skin shade is one helluva an athlete.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Best trade ever for us imo. Between Hilllis and Colt we have something to look forward to in years to come. We just need to get Colt’s ankle in the hyperbaric chamber and get him healthy soon.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
To be fair their running styles are somewhat similar, with Alstott having more raw power and Hillis having more athleticism. Something about their body lean and stride reminds me of one another.
Who was comparing him to Alstott though?
rufio - November 30, 2010
I don’t know, it was definitely ugly, going from being up 21-7, losing the lead, and coming back to win by 1 against the worst team in the NFL. I wouldn’t call it a “good” win that’s for sure.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
like others have said, I feel like it’s balanced by some of our “good” losses.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
Its a win ugly or otherwise taken along with the spanking that OSU did to the wolverines. It was a great weekend BTW Hillis is on my Fantasy team. Cha ching like money in the bank
Suppa Bob - November 28, 2010
The OSU win was pretty sweet.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I was in a room full of Michigan fans watching it.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I’m sorry that you know that many michigan fans.
rufio - November 30, 2010
haha. It was actually kinda fun. after the first drive they were all going crazy and excited and my dad and I were just smiling thinking “wait a few minutes and then we’ll see”. By the end they were all sour grapes exclaiming “oh, well Wisconsin is still better…” and “Jim Tressel is just lucky”
bross09 - November 30, 2010
Wisconsin is better this year and they proved it on the field (and I say this as an OSU fan). However, there is very little luck involved in Tressel’s domination of the Team Up North.
woodsmeister - November 30, 2010
the point is that after a loss saying “oh, Wisconsin is still better” is sour grapes and just plain irrelevant.
bross09 - November 30, 2010
Wisconsin proved they were better that Saturday in Madison. They did not and can not prove anything other than that.
rufio - December 1, 2010
Jim Tressel is just lucky? For seven straight years?
Tressel is lucky that michigan sucks.
rufio - December 1, 2010
Well I think the problem is we’ve been consoling ourselves through the losses by saying we’re much improved and can compete with the big boys. Then we essentially luck out against the worst team in the league so it makes our “improvement” just look like a mirage.
HenryDawg - November 28, 2010
no. we shouldn’t have lost, we should have won. If the refs make the Prudent call at the end, the FG doesn’t need to be tried.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
There isn’t a ref alive who would call him down in bounds.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
How wasn’t he?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I don’t think he was down in bounds. If he was, it was by a fraction of an inch. No ref is going to make that kind of call.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
It really doesn’t matter to me, but I think it was a coin flip call.
dgcambridge - November 28, 2010
and the problem is, if they miss the call, they can’t subtract time which was the problem. lets not argue whether he is in bounds or out but for the purpose of this assume he was in. If they call him out, then under further review realize he is in, there is nothing you can do about it the way the rules are written. however, if you call him out and review and see he is in, you can put time back on the clock.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Well, that’s unfortunate, because he was down in bounds.
Western Reserve - November 28, 2010
I think he rolled out of bounds. I would need gif evidence to think differently.
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
So you are saying that every ref is awful. By the replay he was down by contact in bounds. Maybe someone can find a replay of it and .gif it for us?
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
It’s a very close call. I wouldn’t call a ref “awful” for missing it either way.
Buckeye Brad - November 28, 2010
I think most refs would have correctly ruled him down in bounds. You see similar plays fairly often in the NFL.
Chemo - November 28, 2010
We should have won because our QB should have protected the ball when we were having our way with them.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
I agree with this too. I just thought the previous comment was talking about hte missed FG.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
no it wasn’t. I was really just referencing the fact that we were basically letting the Panthers back in the game. We seem to be real great in the first half, only to let the opposition come from behind and win. It was just my musings after the win.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
I guess I misinterpreted it. Yes, we let them back in…mostly with one play. 21-20 is a whole different ballgame than 21-13 and it gives you much more freedom on offense and defense.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
and our TE shouldn’t have fumbled on the two. There’s a lot of blame to go around.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
You can’t blame this on the refs.
Buckeye Brad - November 28, 2010
I’d give them a freebie anyways. A lot of stuff went our way.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Not blaming the game on the refs. I will blame the game on Delhomme anytime someone would ask me who the goat is.
However, with the way the rulebook is set up, if I was a ref and I wasn’t 100% sure on that last call, I call it in bounds, but then whistle for review (which they ended up doing). Personally, I would do it to cover my ass because if that FG is made, the refs would look like they in a way, decided the outcome at the end.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Henne has 300 yard day already for Dolphins today. Thought he was banged up?
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
So that first round pick we spent on Hillis was totally worth it.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
1st and a 2nd, I think, but still worth it, a million times over.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Browns gave up picks?
Grockcubs - November 28, 2010
Brady Quinn joke.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
ok, lol
Grockcubs - November 28, 2010
I was listening to someone commenting that McDaniel’s handling of the Hillis trade and some other factors will likely cost him his job.
Brownsyup - November 29, 2010
No No No. I want to make on more trade with McD, he’s been so good to us. Who do they have for a decent O lineman? I’d trade Wright for a right guard and tackle. Come on, McD would go for it.
J. W. - November 29, 2010
Under-mentioned bad play call of the day: Going for it on 4th & 1 when you are leading by 1 against an offense that can’t score a TD. Dumb move.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 28, 2010
Instead of kicking a FG that puts you up by more than a FG by the way.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 28, 2010
I’m still fine with it. Ridiculous we didn’t get it, but I’m fine with going for it on our own 25, especially with Peyton Hillis. Inexcusable that Vickers was not in on that play though. Freaking stupid.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
their 25*
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
This.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Agree.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
You either have to go Vickers and Hillis or 4 wide. They were toying in the middle ground, and our identity should be to line it up in an I formation and run IS zone or Power O and say “try to stop us”.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I am with you, didn’t like that call.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
In the grand scheme of things I’d say that call was the least of their problems / mistakes.
I don’t think it was necessarily a bad call, just because I figured it was a gimme with Hillis in there.
On the other hand, yes, in hindsight the 3 points would probably have been advisable.
Either way you look at it, Mangini would be damned if he did and damned if he didn’t (go for it).
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
From a write-up on cleveland.com (Grossi):
“First time all year Hillis is stopped when needing one yard for a first down”
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
That’s why I thought it was a good call.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
also Moore got put on his ass on that play
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
Yeah I remember hearing that the Browns were the best in the NFL on converting 3rd and 1.
Buckeye Brad - November 28, 2010
I’m surprised that most teams don’t get that in general, let alone there being a top team in that stat. Probably because we see it so much.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
yeah if you have a chance to go up by more than three I’d say you have to take the points. Especially when your opponent is Carolina.
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
I didn’t hate that call. Its easy to criticize in hindsight, but at the time I liked the ballsy call. In hindsight, I would have liked them to play conservative football, but I will admit thats not what I thought at the time.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I still think it was the right call considering how effective we were converting before.
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
WTF?
I slip out for a crafty beer with the game under control and what happens???
We win by the width of a post?
LondonBrown - November 28, 2010
Love the confidence graph BTW
HenryDawg - November 28, 2010
So who saw the beatdown of Finnegan by Andre Johnson?
It was complete UFC destruction.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Finnegan needs to be suspended. There isn’t a dirtier player in the league.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Out of all players, the fact that he got Johnson to snap says something.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Johnson will get suspended, I wonder if for multiple games.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
Right, I’m not saying he won’t. But I think it’s justified, Finnegan is a little punk. Andre wrecked him,
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I would be surprised to see Johnson suspended. I think he gets a heavy fine.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Punches like that are pretty serious, I’d be stunned if he didn’t get suspended.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
I think Finnegan’s history will play a role. But those were some haymakers.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
Once again, Andre straight wrecked him.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
First time offender over a very spotless career, good point.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
first time offenders do often get a break, whereas repeat offenders like Finnegan tend not to when they punch someone.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I think for a fight, 1st time is a $25K fine. Second is $50K. I think that it is a schedule in the CBA
sahyouni - November 28, 2010
I think there will be at least a game for throwing the punches.
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
I think James Harrison has delusions that he plays in the octagon sometimes, but Finnegan is tons dirtier.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Dirtier than Harrison? That’s pretty damned dirty.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Finnegan doesn’t even play the game, he just attacks.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Yeah, I was more trying to be funny with the comment. Every time I hear Finnegan’s name it’s because of his dirty play. How long til he get’s Pacman-ed?
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
This is one of the reasons I don’t know if I’d take Jeff Fisher over Mangini straight up. Too many incidents like this from his players.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Yup.
golanbatrac - November 30, 2010
have you guys heard the joke about finnegan’s name? they’re saying he’s going by “innegan” now, b/c he got the “f” beat out of him …
where’s that instant rimshot?
DontCallMeJoey - November 30, 2010
www.instantrimshot.com
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
Nice.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
so does Johnson. there were two people in that fight.
notthatnoise - November 28, 2010
Nah, he gets a freebie and just a heavy fine.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
No he doesn’t, he was the first to throw a punch.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
As far as you know. What boils up the fight is also taken into account. Finnegan shoved his hands into his face, that’s stupid and just as illegal.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
no, thats a penalty that is called all the time without a fine.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
I thought I saw Finnegan also throw a punch?
rufio - November 30, 2010
His jam went straight into Johnson’s face.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
Not once the hats came off. Finnegan was too busy getting his ass kicked.
Monsters of the Midway - November 30, 2010
This.
Simmsinns - November 30, 2010
Ha!
Bernie19Kosar - November 30, 2010
No, he didn’t throw any punches. He just kept throwing his hands up in Johnson’s face and eventually pulled his helmet off.
Kimble_79 - November 30, 2010
Also, first time offenders in a fight only receive 25k fines. It’s in the CBA.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I didn’t know that was in the CBA. has Finnegan been in a fight before?
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Yep. That’s why Seymour only got 25k for his punch. It was his first offense.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
was that yep in reference to finnegan?
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Yes.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Here’s a link to the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBT6MygnKKw
I noticed Finnegan took his helmet off on the first play. Dwayne Rudd says that’s a no-no
da36chamberz - November 28, 2010
Holy crap.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Complete destruction of Finnegan.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Goodell needs to do something about him.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
He just ripped off Johnson’s helmet and threw it!
emily522 - November 28, 2010
That to me is much more dangerous that the punches.
Grabbing someone’s facemask and twisting it until it pops off puts incredible pressure on someone’s neck. If he would have done that to a smaller WR, say DeSean Jackson, he could have seriously injured them. If they are docking guys 50k for helmet to helmet hits, then this should be an easy 100k.
Finnegan is a punk and acted like an asshole when he was leaving the field (waving to the crowd, winking at the cameras, etc.).
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
I don’t know… a helmet to helmet hit causes the brain to smash into the skull giving you a concussion and brain damage… just yanking on the helmet of an athlete shouldn’t do that much damage (except maybe to hair but not in this case)…
crazyL80 - November 28, 2010
WTF? Are you serious? A neck injury isn’t serious to you? If the chin strap does what it’s supposed to, that helmet will be hard pressed to come off a player’s head.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
i think chin straps are clipped in and would un-clip when pulled on… where as a helmet-to-helmet much more dangerous… not to mention that helmet-to-helmet hits commonly cause sever neck injuries themselves.
crazyL80 - November 28, 2010
Apparently you’ve never worn a helmet. Chin straps are on snaps which would take more force than a human can do to pull off by putting force on the facemask. They are also held together with extremely tough plastic and metal fasteners.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
well in the fight both players pulled each others helmets off by the facemask.
crazyL80 - November 28, 2010
Most players rarely ever fully snap their strap anymore or tighten them properly. It leads to that.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
both of them should be fined for not having their helmets properly attached.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Hell, I got that damn rule flagged on me once in the game, and you see almost every QB taking a snap with it off. It’s f-ing ridiculous.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I can’t believe you got a flag for that. Did your coach go off on the refs?
rufio - November 30, 2010
No, it was during a scrimage so it wasn’t a big deal but still, it is in the rules and does allow myself to injury.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
a rule is a rule. If a helmet is put on correctly there is almost no way it should come off during a play. This happens all the time in the NFL and it drives me nuts. maybe the problem with concussions in the NFL comes from people not wearing their equipment correctly.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
Everytime Baby’s helmet pops off, his chinstrap is actually snapped. This obviously alludes to that he doesn’t tighten it enough because he doesn’t like how it grabs at his chin probably. It’s stupid, the chinstrap needs to be tightened for a reason.
Another thing I hate is the Brett Favre/ Kurt Warner chinstrap. It’s basically just a thin piece of nylon barely grabbing the point of the chin that only snaps at two places on the helmet. I also do not like chin straps that only connect at the bottom, and do not utilize the snaps at the top. That’s just bad leverage on the chin and the strap itself.
The straps I think should only be allowed are ones that at least grab at the top and the ones that come with the chin pad. My favorites are the 6 snap straps. They utilize every single snap on the helmet, perfect.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
the six snap ones are a little ridiculous IMO. I would even be fine with the single snap ones if people would tighten them correctly.
I also hate that WRs don’t wear any padding whatsoever.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
There are lots of rules that I don’t agree with that are seldom called and when they are enforced they aren’t enforced evenly.
rufio - December 1, 2010
the uneven enforcement is what gets me. every time someone’s helmet comes off a flag should be thrown, because that helmet either wasn’t on properly, or someone just got their head yanked off. Anyone who has ever put on a helmet will tell you that they fit so snugly that they are actually difficult and a little painful to take off. the fact that they come off with regularity tells me they aren’t wearing their helmets correctly or they have the wrong size.
notthatnoise - December 1, 2010
Which is why it is so surprising when they do throw the flag because a chin strap isn’t properly attached, and why I am going off if I am the coach and it happens to my team.
rufio - December 2, 2010
A lot of people wear the wrong size. You can tell by where there eye level meets in relation to their facemask and also how long the straps are from snap to chin pad.
A helmet should hurt at the ears everytime you take it off.
SpecialBrownie - December 2, 2010
i would rather have my helmet pulled off than take a helmet to helmet.
crazyL80 - November 28, 2010
i saw a preview of this on SC. then they proceeded to say nothing about it.
i would REALLY like to see the fight and people’s commentary on the two.
discoinferno083 - November 28, 2010
In other news, Geathers waived by Miami.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
we play them next week…lets pick him up…
bross09 - November 28, 2010
he’s a seahawk now
davus - November 28, 2010
Damn, that was quick.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
The graph is pretty funny.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Fantasy football on ESPN has a sweet pic of Hillis diving into the end zone.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Same for Yahoo!
Seeing so much Hillis praise.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Both Dungy and Harrison just called the Titans extremely dirty. Love it.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Dungy can F himself. Why did he lay down for the Titans then in 2007?
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
Oh, I still hate him for that don’t get me wrong.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I will be bitter about that until the Browns win the Super Bowl.
Roger Dorn - November 28, 2010
I’ll still be bitter about that, and bottlegate, and the drive, and the fumble, the decision, Jose Mesa… Man, being a Cleveland fan is depressing. I think I’m going to go find some booze…
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
REC
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
Delhomme better not start next week. Those two picks were absolutely HORRIBLE. I hope Colt gets better soon.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Wallace could still be hurt though.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Wallace is ready to go
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
Ratliff. Sipe. Anyone.
Bernie19Kosar - November 28, 2010
I heard Vince Young is looking for a new team…
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
I think B19K would keep Delhomme over Young though
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
As much as I liked Young, he’s been a punk.
StuckInPa - November 28, 2010
I’m pretty sure I read in one of his previous posts B19K has a special fondness of VY.
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
No, he hates Young.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
(hint: see his Fan Shot and my comments – i.e. just poking a little fun…)
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
I would have to say the VY is the anti-Mangini QB. Athletic, yes, Smart, No.
SBP - November 28, 2010
Ratty.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
My prediction: Wallace starts the next two games, then McCoy starts in Cincinnati.
(disclaimer: I am not a fortune teller but I did play one on TV).
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
That sounds probable.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Miss Cleo? is that you?
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Agreed – HORRIBLE.
SBP - November 28, 2010
So, Chilly gets fired, then what? Frasier gives the rock to his runningbacks.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Offensive Line
I think at times the Offensive line is dominant. BUT there are times especially when the game is on the line the look average. Run Blocking and even worse Pass Blocking. Does anyone agree. Any thoughts?
champion64 - November 28, 2010
They haven’t been playing to potential this year that’s for sure.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
There was a play in the 4th, the Panthers defense was in our backfield stopping our 4th and 1. Mack was 3 yards down field. I think they need to slow themselves down. I think they are trying really hard to open those holes for Hillis and are becoming impatient and getting ahead of themselves. Pass protection has just recently become an issue. On the right side it is due to the rotation of guard and tackle.
SBP - November 28, 2010
the Offensive line was pretty solid today I thought. the right side still isn’t great; womack had a false start and he wasn’t as dominant as he normally was in the run game. Plus, St. Clair is just awful and needs to be replaced.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I agree. The right side of the line seems much stronger when Womack plays RT as opposed to RG where he was today. I thought St. Clair played better this week than last week but I still like him best on the bench.
Steinbach hasn’t played very well the past few games and sadly isn’t getting any younger.
Assuming everyone gets healthy again, the Browns have Pashos, Lauvao, Womack, Yates and St. Clair to fill out the right side of the line. I’m comfortable with that for the right side for another season. I’m concerned about Steinbach though. He is going to need a replacement probably sooner rather than later.
Monsters of the Midway - November 28, 2010
Doubt Pashos plays NFL football again
BuenosAires_Dawg - November 28, 2010
Sadly, yep. He seemed like a mean run blocker when he did play.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
St. Clair played better this week than last…but barely. Charlie Johnson (their DE across from him) still blew right by about 2-3 times completely untouched.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Are you sure he was St. Clair’s assignment?
rufio - November 30, 2010
pretty sure…I can’t be 100% sure, but it looked like he at least tried to block him.
bross09 - November 30, 2010
On another note, from what I could see the WR’s were kicking ass run blocking today. I recall either MoMass or Robo handling a LB for one of Hillis’ left side sweeps.
Monsters of the Midway - November 28, 2010
We do this often, on the pin and pull outside zone run.
Seems like we have been running that play a lot against 4-3 teams, trying to out-leverage them and get Hillis one on one with a safety or CB, a lot of momentum, and out in space.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Cool. Thanks for the info!
Monsters of the Midway - November 30, 2010
Receiver?
I looked through the posts and was surprised there was not that many comments on the guy who showed up to be a receiver today. What’s his name, oh yeah Robiskie and how about the Carlton Mitchell sighting today. I like the calls to get these guys the ball. Get their confidence up and see if they can make some noise next week.
SBP - November 28, 2010
Robiskie also averaged about 7 yards a catch. the guy, even today, had trouble creating separation. his first few catches were because the CB was playing about 10 yards deep on him and challenging him to get open this way. then they actually guard him tighter, and he struggles more with separation. pretty much all his catches were with a guy blanketing him and required a perfect throw to be complete. I do have to say Delhomme seems to have the best chemistry with Robiskie, but that doesn’t mean robiskie was anything special today.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Not saying he’s great but I remember seeing Robiskie wide open a few times today and Delhomme didn’t find him. The announcers even commented about it at least once.
Monsters of the Midway - November 28, 2010
I had upper deck seats at around the 30 – which I like. You can watch the entire play develop on either end of the field. Robo being wide open on at least 3 occasions was almost painful to watch. One in particular was on a 3rd and 6. Robo had nobody within 10 yards and Jake threw the ball to Vickers – 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
Great seats. Really gives you a different perspective on the game than watching at home on TV.
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
I always say that if you truly “know football” nothing beats watching a game in person. You miss 70% of what is happening on TV.
This vantage point is also one of my bitches about Daboll. I can’t understand coaching Offense from the sideline – defense maybe – but not the O. You can see so much more of a defenses tendencies from above the field.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
yes. He was open a couple times and didn’t get it. I do remember that. He was also heavily guarded quite a few times and didn’t look to be the best option but still got the ball.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
+1 for Carlton Mitchell sighting. Hope we start to use him a little more.
DavidPuddy - November 29, 2010
Just run a couple of go routes and overthrow him if he’s covered to stretch a D. He’s reportedly the fastest guy on the team.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
Another note.....
It was clearly evident that Jake cannot throw on the run, out of the pocket. I would rather see him run for -1 yards than see him hurl those iffy passes. He is a pocket passer and for some reason the pocket has not been that good. McCoy threw well out of the pocket. The Jags game he was not able to squeek out of the pocket and he paid with a bum ankle.
SBP - November 28, 2010
Did Jake pull a Couch and cry to reporters after the game today?
I heard a snippet on the radio and it sounded like he was sobbing about “all he wanted to do was play football…”
tribe71 - November 28, 2010
Where you said the Browns did everything to lose this game, you were correct, sir. I wouldn’t exactly call what the Browns did today a win. It’s more like they survived. I really hope Delhomme doesn’t start again. He has pretty good production, but he throws too many damn picks. In addition to the two he threw in the third quarter, I counted two others that should have been picked off, he also fumbled at the end of the first half, which could have been costly had Carolina recovered. Overall, I think it’s safe to say at this point that the Delhomme experiment is a failure.
duke4711 - November 28, 2010
Is Antonio Gates not allowed to say KSU in that in – game graphic for what school he graduated from?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Player´s choice – usually player has a beef with coach or school and do not want to give them publicity. Dirty Ben took it an extra step and he is now listed from “Cory Rawson” and not Findlay because he was upset that they did not support his thug behavior. Cory Rawson is a school – not a city BTW.
realmccoy - November 28, 2010
Psh.
Does LeBron say: “LeBron James. Akron, Ohio. Which is not Cleveland. It’s 40 minutes from Cleveland. But it’s not like any people from Akron root for Cleveland teams.”
emily522 - November 28, 2010
Manning threw a pick 6, let’s crucify him guys.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
SB just made an Asinine comment…lets crucify him…oh wait, he does that about as much as Delhomme throws picks.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Manning threw a second pick! Let’s crucify him!
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Manning looks terrible
No other way to put it. But there’s a difference between having a bad game once in a while and having bad games all the time.
TheAnalyst - November 28, 2010
Manning has a ton of high INT games. Hell, he had a 6 INT game against SD a few years ago. A 3 INT game last week. I mean, Manning is Manning but he never gets reamed for tossing some pick 6’s.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Are you saying Jake is better/as good as P. Manning?
Is that really where you are getting at?
TheAnalyst - November 28, 2010
And regardless, they both have made it to the SB, right?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
just stop trolling SB.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
just stop.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Thank you.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
hahahahahaha
discoinferno083 - November 29, 2010
I was at the game today and didn’t get to post in real time – but here’s a couple of observations.
Jake has zero zip on his passes. The balls that were picked off, aside from being piss-poor decisions, were moving so slowly the DB’s had ample time to close and make the play.
Daboll should be fired immediately, if not sooner. 40 seconds to go in the first half and we get the ball on a kick-off to our 30ish. Up by 10 points and getting the ball first in the second half, conventional wisdom says run once and go to the locker room. We, for some reason call a pass play – Jake gets hit and nearly loses a fumble at our own 20. Asinine.
4th and 1. Going for it is not a bad idea at this point. Leaving the best blocking FB in the league on the bench and calling a horrible play with a TE in motion that broadcasts the spot where the ball is going to be run is.
A lot of the plays that just looked like Jake throwing a horrendous pass were really him just getting rid of the the ball to avoid a sack. Mostly because of blown blocks by the right side of the line (Luavo?). Don’t get me wrong – some were just horrendous passes.
Cribs has no “burst” right now and had no business being on the field today at all. Heal and come back when you can help the team.
Tripletts officiating crew has to be the worst in the NFL. Totally frustrating to watch the game and realize the officials are completely inept. Even the P.A. announcer was sarcastic at one point calling a “Correction – First Down!!!!”
If the Defense continues to tackle and cover this way we won’t win another game.
Sorry if I sound overly pessimistic – but the mood leaving the stadium may have been as gloomy as any I’ve experienced after a loss. Bad game – maybe worse than last week.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
The crowd sounded dead on tv.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
The mood was just totally flat. I swear everyone was anticipating a let down. I swear being 11 point favorites was a curse.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
And yes – I swore a whole lot today.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
I hope there were kids around.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
And a group of nuns.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
And new born puppies.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
disagree. the browns had all of their timeouts and jake had been playing pretty well so far that half, so why not give it a shot?
davus - November 28, 2010
Trying to drive the ball 70 yds. in 40 seconds with a 10 point lead – when you’re getting the ball right back after the half makes no sense to me. Ever.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
well…70 yards if you are going for the TD.
It is about 40 yards to get to the Panthers 30 yard line to set up a FG that is about 48 yards. That is a doable FG for Phil Dawson and the drive (40 yards, 40 seconds and 3 timeouts) is very doable.
It makes a lot more sense than getting complacent and sitting on the ball.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Seemed like by the end of the first half Jake had already become a liability on the field.
Just seemed like the way he was moving on that play was a bad sign.
Looked like he had aged 10 years in 10 minutes – like his legs had turned to stone.
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
Maybe we should start one QB, then switch them out at the second half, since none seem to be able to play a full game.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I disagree 100%. we had the ball at the 30 and 3 timeouts. unless you are playing tresselball or martyball, you at least try to go downfield once. God, Daboll can’t win here. If he plays 2 conservative, people get pissy in hindsight and when he gets a bit aggressive people call him asinine.
It seemed to be a lot more of St. Clair than Lauvao that was getting blown up.
I didn’t think the coverage was that bad. At the end, they had a couple lapses but even on the Lafell play, the last play in the game, the coverage wasn’t terrible, it was just a pefectly executed play. In general, I thought the coverage was very solid. I believe we held Steve Smith to only 2 catches and our CBs did a good job of covering him.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
A day to digest and I still don’t agree. My criticism of Daboll is not being aggressive when the situation calls for it. After a turnover for instance – take a shot at the end zone to demoralize the opponent – don’t call a run between the tackles.
How about on a second and one at the opponents 35 – with a terrific running game at your disposal – calling a play action pass JUST ONCE for Christ’s sake? Get the defense to bite on the fake – if you miss it you still have third down to get a yard.
How about when your back-up RB averages 7 yards a carry – like Bell did Sunday – against a lousy defense – you try to get him involved in the game? Especially when Hillis was limping off the field, grabbing at his hamstring and obviously gassed at the end.
Daboll has had a couple of good games against the Saints and Pats and then went right back into his shell. He needs to coach every game like those – or don’t coach at all.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
we had 1 forced turnover and it was with less than 3 minutes in the game. at that point, even with a 1 point lead you want to burn the clock and control the ball.
I agree we should have gone for some more Play Actions on 2nd and 1. We did try a couple, but 1-2 more would have been nice. then again, you point out our running game and in those situations, hillis converted so I don’t see that big of a problem.
Bell had 2 carries…its hard to say it was a reason to get him more involved. I didn’t see him limping though, though I would not have minded bell getting more time at the end.
This was a much better day than Jacksonville but that is not saying much. If this is what daboll will normally be, I think he is a league average coordinator. If he can be that, I am content for now.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Those comments were more based on the season as a whole than just yesterday.
Toward the end of the game (I was there and could see the stuff outside the play) Hillis was clearly in pain, limping, grabbing his left hammy, etc. 130-odd yards and 3 TD’s was enough. Let’s not kill the guy – we still need him. Bell had success on two carries and that doesn’t necessarily indicate future results, but it sure seemed like a good time to find out. At a minimum, a worn down D was a good spot to try to get him out of his funk, so to speak.
My frustration with Daboll has become greater after the Saints and Pats games. He has the ability to be creative and mix it up. Keep doing it. I’m not referring to trick plays either. The play calling as a whole in tose games was unpredictable.
I’m getting to the same point with Ryan, to be honest. We confused some of the best QB’s in the league for a few games and have all of the sudden gone back to a vanilla defensive game plan. I understand that Fujita was “The QB of the D”, but come on – no other LB can grasp some of the concepts we were running? We can’t confuse Jimmy Clausen!?!?!?
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
Ahh…yeah, that I can agree with.
I guess I didn’t see that from my vantage point but we definitely need to get him a breather.
we did up until the last 30 seconds or the last play really…Before that last play his QB rating was about 58-59, his completion % was 55, and his ypa was 6.1…very mediocre. Take away that play, and the goodsen play (which was more of a dumpoff with terrible tackling) and his ypa is 5.4 and his QB rating is 54.
Before that drive, Clausen had the kind of day he has been having. However, he got a boost on one play when the D totally collapsed and couldn’t tackle and another play that was a great throw against not the best coverage.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Your description of the last few plays couldn’t be more accurate. Terrible tackling? How about NO tackling?!?!
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
It was so frustrating to be there and feel the energy during that last drive…
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I couldn’t believe the amount of people that celebrated and left after Haden’s INT! They thought we had won! My mom was with me – has season tix and is an astute enough football fan to know we needed at least 1 more first down to seal it. Another series of questionable play calling – by the way…..
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
It’s very funny that you are calling for Daboll to call more pass plays since many people were criticizing him for calling too many pass plays. This just goes to show that people will always put the blame for bad offense on the OC’s play calling no matter what he does.
Also, Bell has sucked every chance he’s got except for one good run yesterday. His 7 yards a carry was on two carries. I’m not going to get upset about not giving him the ball more — I guarentee that if he got 7 or 8 carries then he wouldn’t be averaging 7 yards per carry.
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
I’d be happy with 60-40 run to pass. We are definitely a run first team, and should be using the run to set up a pass.
The important thing to me is calling the right play at the right time – or at least trying to. Or at least mixing it up a bit. Last weeks run-run-pass-punt on 3 series in a row is a perfect example. 0 attempt at anything creative. Way too predictable.
I’m also not claiming that Bell would have continued to average 7 YPC – but if ever there were a time to get fresh legs into the game – against a pre-sofened D – that was it. Bad coaching again.
I like Mangini and would love to see him return – I’m just not sold on Daboll.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
They tried a halfback pass by Hillis — how is that not creative?
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
and that almost worked too…
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Also they are probably at least conserving Cribbs because of his injury.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I’ll take the yards wherever they are, thank you. Give me a 2-3 yard passing premium and take whatever nets more yardage.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Jake’s lack of mobility is what made some of those passes look so bad. He was unable to get out of the pocket and was purposely throwing the ball in the direction of a receiver, but to a spot that was un-catchable by either team. It was really poor protection by the line (again, mostly the right side) that was responsible. The receivers had no way of knowing that the ball was even on the way most of the time.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
Yes. the right side, mostly St Clair played poorly. the left side actually had a pretty decent day and overall the protection was solid. However, protection can’t hold up forever and Jake was holding onto the ball WAY too long and thats a lot of why the pressure kept getting there.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
I agree that Jake was holding the ball forever. I made the comment at the game that Joe Thomas must have been wishing Colt was in there by the 3rd qtr. He had to be worn out from holding his blocks for so long on every dropback.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
Ha…except that to JT, its just more of a challenge to beat.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
the defenders were wishing Colt had been in there so they wouldn’t have had to be completely subdued by Joe Thomas for so long.
Dawg Nuts - November 28, 2010
They actually might have known if they were supposed to break off on a hot route and they missed their read. It really looked to me like this happened at least once.
rufio - November 30, 2010
one play in particular with Momass comes to mind.
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
torry holt (who wasn’t bad, actually, especially for his first game ever) spent a little bit of time on that one. jake seemed to make a nice read and throw, and the ball whistled right past momass’s nose. un-awesome.
DontCallMeJoey - November 30, 2010
I didn’t mind Holt either
notthatnoise - November 30, 2010
I didn’t get to hear him but this should be right up his alley. Martz’ offense was all about the hot reads. He loved to get 5 out in to the routes, so you usually knew how the Rams were going to block. If they didn’t execute the hot reads correctly they would have been very easy to stop.
rufio - December 1, 2010
Really had to laugh at this headline on the nfl.com ‘game center recap’. I guess no one over there actually watched any of the game film or they would have realized how ridiculous the title sounds to those who actually witnessed the comedy of errors (err… I mean the game).
(recap link here)
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
Another amusing headline – a bit more appropriate…
(article on Waiting For Next Year site)
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
(above article is a good read BTW)
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
what the hell – I’m probably close to the record so might as well go for it here….
(record number of times someone replies to self before anyone has read original post)
burntorangeandbrown - November 28, 2010
Awesome performance…….(check him for PED’s)
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
My record is twice.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
I thought about going for four, but figured I’d stop at three.
Don’t want to set a record that I can’t beat again.
burntorangeandbrown - November 29, 2010
While Delhomme didn’t play great, the guy’s pretty much a class act. From his conference…
“How do you think you played?”
“Hahahahahah…”
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I mean at least he didn’t blame people right?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
No denying he’s a class act. He’d make a hell of a QB coach – starting next week in Miami.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
Manning has thrown two Pick 6’s tonight.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
That last one was BS though. Terrible non-call that allowed the pick 6 to happen
Browns town - November 28, 2010
I call that more acting by Wayne, the grab looked too weak to do anything we saw. But still, teo pick sixes are two pick sixes.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Eh, it looked to me that he grabbed his waist to kind of pull himself forward. To each his own…
Browns town - November 28, 2010
Quite. I’m just trying to take a great QB’s mistakes to put our own in perspective.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Damn Manning sucks, cut his ass.
Villeslgr - November 28, 2010
“BLAH, (cursing) HE SUCKS, GET WALLACE IN THERE! …Oh, wait.”
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I mean, come on, Manning;s performance is now twice as bad as Delhomme’s. Let’s be happy guys.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Manning has thrown 4 interceptions already?
bross09 - November 28, 2010
He’s thrown three and two for pick sixes just in this game. Idk what the 4 thrown interception thing means. Unless it means you’re trying to be an ass.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
delhomme threw 2 picks…not just one pick 6.
but yeah, sounds like manning is having a bad game against a pretty good D (a much better D than the Panthers)
bross09 - November 28, 2010
It’s Manning though, no D should be too tough for him.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
yeah, but even god has his off days…thats when he created detroit.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Uh, you meant Pittsburgh.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
them too. Now pittsburgh sucks obviously but Detroit is a decrepit wasteland that is the anus of society.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
No, now that’s Baltimore.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
…and rec.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
another good example. Baltimore is also a terrible city.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I am going to hope that this is sarcasm.
Bernie19Kosar - November 29, 2010
Twice as many INTs and twice as many pick sixes. What am I being sarcastic on?
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Comparing the greatest QB of all-time to Jake Delhomme?
Bernie19Kosar - November 29, 2010
Wayne is becoming a huge liability to my Fantasy team
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Picking up Tamme was one of my best moves this year.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
I traded him for Jahvid Best. Terrible, terrible move.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Best is on my roster too. Very disappointing the last few weeks. I benched him and played BJGE this week – but I shoulda played Fred Jackson in hindsight. Capt. Hindsight is my team logo this week, by the way.
DaveDawg09 - November 28, 2010
Good statement from Terry Pluto here:
Get well soon Colt!
Browns town - November 28, 2010
Ah man, I don’t like shooting down Delhomme like that though. Ouch. This is all from a personal level, of course.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
I’m with you in that Delhomme is a class act. I don’t want him playing anymore though, I’ve seen enough.
Browns town - November 28, 2010
This. 100%. He is a Helluva guy but is nowhere near being a Helluva football player.
bross09 - November 28, 2010
Agreed.
emily522 - November 28, 2010
All this talk about qb. The whole team was a let-down. How playing a team as bad as Carolina and having it go down to a blown fg at the end speaks to the ineptitude of this team. Sorry, guys, another stinko-season. Go clowns.
Displaced Dawg - November 28, 2010
Really?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Looks like we have a new Rocland.
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
davus - November 28, 2010
NOOOOOOOOO!
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Wow, that made me laugh pretty damn hard.
North Coast Flea - November 29, 2010
So next time I claim the sky is falling, don’t make fun. Because you’ll eat s*^t later haha.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Today was the first time since the season finale in ’88 that I missed a significant portion of any televised Browns game. Glad we came away with the victory.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
What’s the shortcut for bulleted lists? I thought it was the pound sign, but obviously not.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Obviously. That was a pound.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
No shit Sherlock.
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
Now, where’s my damn crumpet?
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
Oh wait, that wasn’t a joke, I used the pound sign and it made it a 1., I didn’t put that on purpose.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
If you ever wonder, hit formatting guide in the comment box.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
golanbatrac - November 28, 2010
Boom.
SpecialBrownie - November 28, 2010
.. tough actin Tinactin
North Coast Flea - November 28, 2010
Seems like our D has been prone to shorter passes that end up going for long gains. Run D has been worse without Fujita.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
I wish I knew why that is. A lot of it seems to be poor tackling. Our guys are usually in position, but they go for the strip instead of wrapping up.
The loss of Fujita has been a bigger deal for our D than I would have ever imagined. He was an A+ free agent signing.
golanbatrac - November 29, 2010
Yea, I think with leads we need to go for the sure tackle over the strip. Might have changed the outcome on more than a few big plays.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
I’m looking at you Eric Wright against the steelers.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
David Bowens had a quote after the game about not trying to strip all the time. Make sure the tackle is the main thing.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
Yes, this was a big problem on the short pass to Goodson on the last drive which set up the long sideline pass, where Goodson kept breaking tackles. You could see players going for the strip instead of wrapping him up and getting him down. We cost ourselves at least 20 yards on that play by not tackling properly.
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
Yes. Secure the tackle first and go for the strip if there is opportunity.
rufio - November 30, 2010
It would be awesome to see them actually start playing that way.
JustBob - November 30, 2010
So what is the deal with Cribbs. I’ve been watching a lot of the other return specialists run back kickoffs for TDs and Cribbs seems more tentative this year. I know he has been injured and teams have been kicking away from him but he still seems a bit off. Injury maybe? Has he lost a step? I don’t see teams treating them the same way they did at the first of the season. They seem to be just kicking it so him now.
Brownsyup - November 29, 2010
Guess he just doesn’t want his money. Whatever.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Cribbs is obviously playing hurt now but wasn’t there also some speculation about him not being 100% earlier this season?
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
From an interview with Cribbs on Friday. I think they should have kept him on the bench.
burntorangeandbrown - November 29, 2010
Damn, other than Buffalo last year I can’t remember any other win that I felt worse about than this one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vHRMeRszw4
I dunno…I know a ‘W’ is a ‘W’ and blah blah blah…but this…this just wasn’t progression to me.
johnnyphoenix - November 29, 2010
Oh no johnny, that Buffalo “win” was much worse than this one.
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
Today I was supposed to be heading back to college with my fiance and my most positive hope was to listen to the game on the radio. BUT! The transmission on her car died and we had to stay another day in Ohio! I GOT TO WATCH THE BROWNS GAME ON TV!!!
OK, thoughts-
1. I did a quick scan through this thread, and it seems like the consensus is that the offense was just awful during the second half. Which, fair enough, it really was. BUT I would like to suggest that a lot of the blame just goes on the players that we don’t have. Well, specifically one player that we don’t have: A backup for Peyton Hillis. It seemed like we just couldn’t get the run game going and I think it may have been because Hillis was getting tired. I saw him being brought down by the 1st guy way too many times in the 2nd half, and that just doesn’t happen with a fresh Hillis.
2. With that being said, Hillis had a HELL of a game. It filled my heart with so much joy to see him hurdling defenders, making Charles Godfrey his B-word (sorry for my harsh use of letters), running like a tank… Great day for the guy. I’m already thinking fantasy football pre-draft rankings for next year- 1. Peyton Hillis, etc…
3. We had some sorry ass tackling today. Has it been this bad all year? I don’t get to follow many games all that closely, but it seems like since Fujita left we may have become a little soft.
4. I didn’t post @ all or read any of the game thread posts, but I imagine there was a lot of this: “ROBO SIGHTING!!!” That was nice to see (finally).
5. Delhomme (bless his heart) seems to make some good decisions, he just can’t throw anymore. Maybe it’s rust, but there were some plays where I saw him throw the ball and literally said out loud “I could have made that pass!” I was a bit of a Delhomme supporter at the beginning of the season, but sadly, he needs to be kept to the role of “mentor” whenever injuries don’t keep all other options out of the game.
6. Josh Cribbs should not have played. He did not have near the same burst as he normally does. I know he’s a fighter, but he needs to take it easy until he’s 100%.
7. Speaking of Cribbs, I think his lack of potency is probably due to his increased role at WR this year. He’s pretty much an every down WR now, right? You gotta think that being on the field THAT much and also taking kickoffs probably makes him a little less of a threat than when the vast majority of time that he was on the field was during those kick returns. I hope that we can get some decent talent at WR to put Cribbs in more of a limited role at WR so he can focus more on returning kickoffs.
In the end- Way to pull out the win. It showed us that we are a team that still has work to do, but we are getting there.
shep615 - November 29, 2010
1. I disagree that we couldn’t get the run game going. while peyton hillis was not AS explosive as in the first half, he still had about half his yardage in the 2nd half and averaged over 4.3 yards per carry…but yeah, on #2, peyton was a monster. I just think the problem in the 2nd half was delhomme.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
I guess Carolina just didn’t want it more
Luke C - November 29, 2010
Ironic. This oft-repeated mantra is widely accepted as gospel in the world of sports.
Yet the Browns manage to pull one off, and everyone is disgusted.
One thing that is probably missing in the discussion of this ‘ugly game’ is some credit that should be given to Clausen. Yes, he was looking like the classic flustered rookie for most of the game, but he did manage to suck it up and bring his team downfield into scoring position from his own 5 yard line with less than 1 minute left and no timeouts. Gotta give him credit for that drive.
burntorangeandbrown - November 29, 2010
Browns fans have a keen knack for using that phrase when we lose well-fought close games against good teams, but when we win a game we played poorly, the opposite is true. In this case, there is almost always something to complain about. The only satisfying win was against New England. I would say New Orleans, but that was obviously because we used trick plays, not because we are good.
Sometimes you win a bad game. Pittsburgh nearly lost to Buffalo, but you won’t hear their fans piss and moan. A win is a win against any team in the league.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
exactly. no playoff team gets through the schedule without an embarrassing win here or there.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
When you have a contending team it’s okay to win some of them ugly. When you have a team that is short on talent and you are looking for signs of progress, winning like this means that the team showed its negative tendencies. It’s almost better to lose in this situation while showing signs of improvement than to win because your opponent could not convert a makeable field goal.
elsandito - November 29, 2010
You take the entire picture into context. The Jets game while a loss has to be viewed as a positive. This game I would view as mostly negative, but a few positives (Hillis, Haden.) Overall, we are getting better.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
I really think we aren’t paying enough attention to how well Haden has played the last few weeks. how many picks does he have now? and aren’t they all in successive weeks?
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
4. Steelers, Jets, Jacksonville, Carolina.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I didn’t have visual yesterday, but I thought his cover skills against Jacksonville and the Jets were some of the best I have seen in Browns uni since the rebirth.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
He looked good again to me. Obviously we only can see him for a portion of the play on TV.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Like I pointed out below, I was at the game and was watching him specifically and he was very good.
bross09 - November 30, 2010
Hey, I’ve pointed it out!
emily522 - November 29, 2010
I’ve been on record as a huge Haden fan since a month before the draft. His recent performance doesn’t surprise me in the least.
golanbatrac - November 29, 2010
4. He has 4 picks in his last 6 games and a pick in each of the last 3 games.
I was actually going to comment eventually on this. Haden has been pretty darn good. I was at the game and there were a few plays where I focused my attention exclusively on Haden.
One of these was a 3nd down (I believe) play where he was guarding Steve Smith. He had good coverage on smith who was running an 8 yard hitch right before the first down marker. If Clausen threw it, that ball would have been contested and even if he caught it, haden was close enough to make sure smith wouldn’t get that yard for the 1st. The ball is thrown on what looked like a crossing route over the middle to someone who got open (couldn’t tell who, maybe a TE or Goodsen). Haden reacts to the throw immediately and right after it is caught, he tackles the guy and saves them from getting a 1st.
In short, I specifically paid attention to haden (wanted to watch the rookies) and he was excellent.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
that literally makes no sense.
DontCallMeJoey - November 30, 2010
No disagreement – good points.
BTW, if there is such a thing as a “satisfying loss”, I would have to point to the Jets game.
IMHO the Browns showed absolutely great potential in that game regardless of the heartbreaking result.
That was a great team effort from top to bottom, and I wondered if the loss in Jacksonville was partly due to a letdown / burnout (the o-line in particular, but probably across the board, not to mention the injuries…).
I really don’t know what to make of the Panthers game. But as you say, a win is a win is a win.
Keep plugging, take the wins however you can get them, and make winning a habit.
(sorry, but I just love that Lombardi quote)
burntorangeandbrown - November 29, 2010
I agree, a win is a win. this wasn’t the most pretty win, but its pretty darn annoying to run errands last night and listen to people on the radio saying “fire mangini, fire daboll, fire ryan”…WE WON DAMMIT
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Exactly, “you play to win the game”
Villeslgr - November 29, 2010
A win is a win, but looking for areas in your game over which you have control and where you can improve is a winning attitude. Always thankful for the W, thankful we won a close game, but there are many things we can control and improve upon.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I’m pretty happy about this win, don’t get me wrong. But we didn’t find a way to win this close game… John Kasay had to miss a 42-yard FG that he makes 8 or 9 times out of 10. Our win depended on their mistake, not us finding a way to win. Some people might not like that… I like the W though.
shep615 - November 29, 2010
Steelers won on a dropped pass though right? Same thing.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I don’t disagree.
I was just pointing out the irony (the ‘need to win close games’ mantra vs. the fact that we won a close one but it was still very unsatisfying).
burntorangeandbrown - November 29, 2010
Like Dorn said I think this game is viewed negatively because certain aspects of the team regressed.
I’m not too worked up about it though. The QB carousel continued and a bunch of starters were out with injuries on offense, defense and special teams. In spite of all that I would say there were areas where the team progressed. Most importantly they got the win.
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
Make less mistakes than the other team, swing the % odds of winning in your favor.
rufio - November 30, 2010
It wasn’t always pretty — we could have won the thing by two touchdowns. But, I’m sure glad we won it. Standing at 4-7 is sure as hell a lot better than sitting at 3-8. We barely escaped. But I’ll take it.
Western Reserve - November 29, 2010
Defense
Everyone blames the offense what about the defense. Rob Ryan counldn’t get done with the Raider and for sure is schemes are not working he lost at least five games and almost lost yesterday. Other teams throws pick but they still win Why
Derestrat78 - November 29, 2010
smokescreen
johnnyphoenix - November 29, 2010
Cue Rufio.
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
I don’t know about the schemes and it’s getting cliche now but Rob Ryan can’t make the tackles for these guys.
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
exactly. I have been satisfied with how the schemes have been working over the last several weeks. At first, we had trouble getting pressure on the QB and had to blitz a lot of guys. Now, the blitzes I feel are more creative even from that point and we are getting to the QB a lot. In the last game, we had 3 sacks, 7 QB hits, and 6 Tackles for a loss.
The tackling was bad on the 2nd level today (which is why we need someone better than Barton in there IMO) but guys like Benard, Roth, and Rogers were getting into the backfield well and making plays.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
another person bitching and moaning about Rob Ryan. point me to the five games he lost?
Tampa Bay? We lost because Delhomme threw a pick 6 (part of why we almost lost yesterday) and Hillis put it on the ground twice
Chiefs? A Pick 6 by Seneca and also just the whole offense in the 2nd half (which was also to blame in Tampa)
Ravens? It was clearly Wright. this is the first loss you can pin on the D as a whole…and its not really Rob Ryan’s fault. If a player who has been reliable suddenly can’t cover, that may be more Deion Sanders’ fault than Rob Ryans’s (Deion was supposedly mentoring Wright)
Falcons? Jake Delhomme again had a bad game and was the cause of 3 turnovers.
Steelers? Eric Wright and the O-Line…Yes, its the steelers and they are good but the O-Line was a key reason why the offense was so mediocre
Jets? you can blame Wright for the play in OT, you can blame Stuckey for his fumble, but I don’t see how you blame Rob Ryan
Jags? Yes the D gave up that big run, but how much of that onus can fairly be put on rob ryan? Even so, the only reason that TD mattered is because the O-Line was flat out garbage.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
And the d did kind of force a turnover or two in the Jacksonville game.
Villeslgr - November 29, 2010
exactly…it was the offensive line that lost us that game. no question about it.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
This is all sorts of wrong.
rufio - November 30, 2010
It´s good that we put Delhomme through a full work-out, and it turns out he´s still not a world beater. Gives us better leverage for continuing to break in Colt McCoy.
Still not amused about using Hillis as a feature back, I´ll tell you again, it was exotic when Barry Sanders did it, and he was only allowed to do it because he was super human. Not only did you send him barreling through the line 26 times, you also expose him by tossing it to him 6 times. That´s irresponsible, it makes me wonder if he is fully appreciated or just this year´s tool.
mooncamping - November 29, 2010
If Hillis is only a tool, he’s a useful tool. Having a reasonable running attack allows management to see areas where the O needs further upgrades. And I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you or them, just saying there is a large upside.
elsandito - November 29, 2010
I don’t get all the noise about Hillis’ workload. And it’s not just you saying it Moon. Every other featured back in the league has a huge workload. 20+ carries a game. Guys like MJD, AP, Chris Johnson, Arian Foster and Steven Jackson. Arian Foster carried the ball 52 times in the past two weeks and caught 15 passes! I don’t hear constant debate about his durability.
What featured back isn’t out there getting the crap pounded out of them every week?
Monsters of the Midway - November 29, 2010
I agree completely that Hillis’ “workload” isn’t too much, at least in terms of number of touches. Rather, I think the problem is his running style.Don’t get me wrong, I love the fact that he drags defenders for an extra few yards on every single play, but I fear that 1 carry for Hillis equates to about 1.5 carries for another running back given how many defenders it takes to bring him down. Maybe Hillis needs to pick his spots better, like just going down when its obvious he won’t get anything extra.
sww2109 - November 29, 2010
Remember when Franco Harris was criticized for going out of bounds too often? How times have changed.
woodsmeister - November 29, 2010
All this for 470.000 $ this year and 550.000 $ next year from his old contract with the Broncos, who by the way set it off with a mere 49.800 $. There he exploded onto the scene, getting the yardage between the tackles, that the running back by committee agreement could not. People on the forum were absolutely enthused by this old school first down getter. Until he got injured catching a near the side line down the field pass. I think his hot head did not cool down enough to make such a play safely. His approach is commendable, but I sense the same bargain mentality in his usage. #40 should be a feature in the stands, but even the fans sense his fodder.
mooncamping - November 30, 2010
…a mere 49.800 $ signing bonus.
mooncamping - November 30, 2010
My guess it that his salary is not good enough to financially brace winning.
mooncamping - November 30, 2010
Maybe it’s just randomness, or lack of focus, but I don’t think so. I just think we may not be nearly as good as we were 3-4 weeks ago. I think injuries made that much of a difference
→ OL, Cribbs, Fujita, and finally McCoy. It’s not an unusual amount of injuries -every team has these. But this team is probably well below average in terms of depth (how could it not be?)I’m not that worried about it. I’m glad we’ve got quality starters. 2011 gives H&H another year to build our depth. But the next few weeks could be disappointing, especially if we lose another starter or two.
dgcambridge - November 29, 2010
Strikethough was not intentional.
dgcambridge - November 29, 2010
I agree 100%. We were walking a thin tightrope this year with our depth chart. we are not at all a deep team and one major injury and it would make it tough to compete. we did lose more key playsers than normal…plus we don’t have much to replace these players with.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
And I think Ryan is making a very young and talent thin defense look like a pretty tough unit overall.
Rather than vice versa.
Ward & Haden look to have bright futures; Fujita & Brown are solid veterans on the rong side of 30; Bowens has always burst big plays out of small number seasons; and Rogers is Rogers. Not a whole lot of pro bowl talent there but Ryan is making the guys gel as a unit and seriously overperform.
LondonBrown - November 29, 2010
I think there are a couple other guys on D worth mentioning, like Rubin or possibly Roth.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Both excellent against the run. Roth is not a one trick pony. While he is not a big time sack master, he can defend the run, knock down tight ends, and get the occasional big sack. I would love to sign him to a multi-year deal and put him opposite a pass rush specialist. That would be hard to go against.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
Roth as a #2 pass rusher would be great to see, IMO.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I agree…possibly benard too. Roth is not an immense talent, but I love how he is used because he plays the run, pass, and gets sacks. Honestly I think our biggest problem on D is speed. I feel that our LBs are a bit slow, especially Barton. Fujita and Gocong have average at best speed and Roth is maybe a tick below average…Plus Ward and Elam aren’t burners.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Injuries in the NFL show a lack of depth or the strength of your depth. We are not a deep team yet. I think we would find more success late in the game on defense with improved front 7 depth as well. Good point.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Hm. I wonder if this means the sprain wasn’t so serious? Either that or Mangini’s trying to confuse the Dolphins by making them think McCoy may be healthy. I hope he is, but I’m thinking probably another week.
emily522 - November 29, 2010
Yup — typical Mangini; I don’t think Colt is ready.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 29, 2010
They put Cribbs out there yesterday before he was ready.
It was pretty clear from an interview with him Friday he was still in considerable pain.
I hope they don’t pull the trigger on Colt (sorry couldn’t resist) before he is at least 95% healed up.
Going to be very interesting to hear Mangini navigate the QB questions this week.
burntorangeandbrown - November 29, 2010
This quote makes me think he wants to play Seneca if Colt can’t go.
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
I don’t blame him.
emily522 - November 29, 2010
Can I ask....
…why does anyone care SO damned much about what Mangini says about the QB on Monday? It makes very little difference. There are certainly other coaches out there who do the same. Holmgren hasn’t told him to knock it off so, again, why do we care so much?
DreadedOne - November 29, 2010
They all have these damn little hissy fits because Mangini won’t announce who the QB is. Big damn deal right?
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I think that it's a little more delicate than people realize
Handling of the QB situation is a very delicate matter in the sense that if you pull the starter mid game…you really can’t trot him back out there later. If you bench him this week, you are really asking for trouble if the backup can’t play or if you need to go back to him.
The best solution is for Colt to play but if he can’t, then Mangini is in a no-win situation with these fans….so I would go back to what Marty Schottenheimer says: “Forget about the fans and media….if you win, they can’t hurt you and if you lose, they can’t help you.”.
For a guy who’s gotten this team to play way above its head, I am amazed at the number of people who think he’s an idiot.
DreadedOne - November 29, 2010
Thank you. Someone that realizes these are people, not chess pieces. You’ve got to be diplomatic when you have 3 qb’s on your roster that all think they should start when healthy.
Monsters of the Midway - November 30, 2010
Typical Mangini.
rufio - November 30, 2010
I hope we start Seneca at QB and run the single wing. Triple option all game.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Upon further review I like alot of what Jake brought to the table yesterday. Watching live, I was incensed with the pick 6 and felt he should be yanked for Seneca against the Dolphins. However, after watching a 2nd time, he really spread the ball around to the WRs very effectively. I now think Jake should stay in there until Colt is ready.
realmccoy - November 29, 2010
The problem with Delhomme, is he is making devastating mistakes. His mistakes are really costly. Missing an open man or taking a sack when he could have thrown the ball away are one thing, but throwing the ball into coverage and interceptions being brought back for touchdowns are mistakes this young team cannot survive. I watched the game again today and I agree I question his arm strength. I dont think he is seeing the open receivers at times either.
To me there is little doubt, this team owes everything to Peyton Hillis. Without him we may not have a win. I would like to see Wallace quarterback till McCoy gets back. I think Delhomme is a player coach the rest of this season and is let go next year (IF they can find a veteran quarteback or IF they trade to draft a highly touted Quarterback in the draft which I doubt in light of Colt McCoy)
We need some help on the O-Line too, the right side specifically
champion64 - November 29, 2010
Exactly right.
emily522 - November 29, 2010
Exactly again. I agree with realmccoy re what Jake brings to the table which is definitely nice, but it is outweighed heavily by the mistakes. I just don’t trust him — I do trust Wallace to take care of the ball reasonably well and do a good job at what he does.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 29, 2010
your comments during the game were hilarious, the ups and downs! We won though!
champion64 - November 29, 2010
She is quite hilarious during the game thread.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Why thank you.
emily522 - November 30, 2010
I think we all concede that JD brings positive things to the table at QB. None of those things matter if he doesn’t take care of the ball. But, JD already knows this and continues to make desperation tosses.
elsandito - November 29, 2010
I agree completely
It’s not that JD doesn’t have his moments. It’s that every time he goes back to pass, you cringe wondering if he’s throwing a pick-six. You have no confidence in his security with the football. We just aren’t built to overcome those types of mistakes. Yesterday, we were just lucky that we were facing Jimmy Clausen and not any other QB.
I agree about the offensive line. Womack needs to move to tackle and Lauvao needs to take his lumps at RG. The one extremely poor performer the last two weeks that NO ONE seems to want to talk about is Eric Steinbach. This guy is getting man-handled routinely. On 4th and 1 where Hillis got stopped, Steinbach is being pushed 2-3 yards into the backfield. He gets absolutely devastated in the run game and I have several still images of him getting knocked on his keister earlier in the year. Steinbach is a huge liability because then Mack cannot help on the right side.
DreadedOne - November 29, 2010
Steinbach has never been an amazing run blocker but his run blocking the last couple games has not been particularly good. That being said, he looked much better in pass blocking where he was a failure last week. I did think there were a couple times Steinbach got a nice push, but also other times like what you were mentioning.
Overall though, the O-Line played much better than last week. Outside of one player, we pretty much kept them out of the backfield except for the occasional lapse. However, that one player was consistently beating our O-Lineman. you seemed to address the issue without directly saying it by saying Womack should be at RT.
St. Clair was beat a TON. Charlie Johnson was in the backfield WAY too much. The guy isn’t a bad player, but we let him get a sack, 2 QB hits, and 2 TFLs. Most of those (especially the plays on the QB), Johnson came completely unblocked. The guy just blew past St. Clair and this is not a fast DE. this is more of you 275 pounder who relies more on a pass rushing skills and a deent quick first step, but isn’t going to just blow by a defender.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
flag
Bernie19Kosar - November 29, 2010
Lol. Delhomme did some good things.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Oh no, here comes the Hitler talk.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
Browns QB
Colt Mcoy is the team leader, JD sucks and gets worse as the game goes on. He has more TDs to opposing teams than to the Browns. If Colt cant go then Senneca should play. Cleveland should buy jake out and send him on his way
Ronald Scholl - November 29, 2010
we’ve been over this above. there is absolutely no positive impact of cutting him. keeping him and not playing him is the way to go.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
TO EVERYONE THAT POSTS.....
The last minutes of the game yesterday, I re read your post as you were watching the final minute starting with Haden’s interception. it was great. Everyone went from complete jubilation when Haden caught it to dread that we did not pick up a first down , to being ecstatic when Hodges punted it to inside the 5, to pissed on the third down play when NO BROWN could seem to tackle, to semi confidence that Carolina only had 12 seconds and no time outs and still 30 yards from getting in decent field goal position, to complete disbelief they called it a catch, and say the Carolina receiver got out of bounds with 5 seconds to go. To read the pending doom of a sure field goal by Carolina at the gun to lose a game that should have been won, to so much Joy when the ball hit the outside of the left upright!! Then realizing the team is not as far along as we had hoped. Better than the beginning of the year, but we have a long way to go! YOUR COMMENTS AND EMOTIONS for the last 1:48 of the game were great!!
champion64 - November 29, 2010
Troy Smith looks good.
emily522 - November 29, 2010
Especially when compared to the same position play on the other side of the field.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
He is also facing the 25th best passing D according to FO, and tore up the 20th and 31st passing Ds. I am pulling for him, but he hasn’t played top competition
(also looked up other stats, these teams also are all bottom half of the league in opposing QB rating).
I hate to say it, but at this point we should look more at the Tampa game because that is the only competent pass D he faced so far.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
Let’s all be glad that we at least don’t have to deal with DA anymore. Jeez.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Is it possible Anderson got worse? He looks Awful
champion64 - November 29, 2010
He hasn’t hit “The Blutarsky Line” yet……..“Zero…..Point…..Zero…..”
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
Even if the stat line from this year won’t show it, I think so for a couple reasons.
A) he has NEVER had someone like Larry Fitzgerald and even Breaston and Doucet are good players. He has almost as good of weapons to pass to if not as good, as 2007 when he had BE focused and K2 healthy.
B) the Defense, especially the pass Defenses in the NFC West SUCK
He faces the 27th, 20th, and 18th pass Ds according to Football Outsiders TWICE (those Ds are 26, 19th and 17th respectively in opponent QB rating too). He has faced only 3 passing Ds (SD, NO, and TB) that are in the top 50% on football Outsiders and in the top 50% at opponent QB rating. the toughest Passing D he will face the rest of the season is Carolina; 16th on FO and 13th in opp QB rating.
This is why its hard to take Troy Smith or Sam Bradford seriously as QBs; you have to take it with a grain of salt. IN fact, Football outsiders ranks Colt ahead of Bradford and Smith on a per play/per game basis when adjusting for opponent.
If Anderson was playing this way in cleveland, with our schedule, against competent Ds, he would have a QB rating under 50.
bross09 - November 29, 2010
It's made me realize both
a) how awful Brady Quinn must’ve been not to be able to beat out this guy
b) how tough it must have been to actually hitch your wagon to either of these two clowns last year.
His completion percentage wasn’t even high 40s!!!! AKILI SMITH TERRITORY! How the hell did they manage to win 4 straight at the end with this cat?
DreadedOne - November 29, 2010
I thought BQ won the 4 at the end for us?
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I think they split them.
notthatnoise - November 29, 2010
Yup. BQ started against Pitt & KC, got injured and then DA started against Oakland and Jax.
TheDriveStillHurts - November 30, 2010
No. Harrison did.
JustBob - November 30, 2010
hey, give jennings and cribbs their due for the steeler game. harrison barely did anything that week.
notthatnoise - December 1, 2010
…you mean give cribbs his due. Harrison did nothing, Jennings was only average, and Cribbs was ridiculous
bross09 - December 1, 2010
Being average against the steelers defense is not something to devalue.
notthatnoise - December 1, 2010
And he had one really nice run, something that gains importance in that type of low scoring game.
rufio - December 2, 2010
thats true. one nice run…but just one.
bross09 - December 2, 2010
Right, but in a game that is 0-3 in the 4th quarter, 2.0 YPC with one 60 yard TD run is much more valuable than 3.8 YPC with no run longer than 10 yards.
In low scoring games, the big play gains relative importance.
rufio - December 2, 2010
I would also have said he was a JAG at best, but I did factor in the steelers.
the steelers gave up 3.9 ypc that year and Jennings to 3.7. I would call that very close to statistically average.
bross09 - December 2, 2010
His press conference was FANTASTIC.
North Coast Flea - November 30, 2010
They really need to flex the late season MNF. How does an awful game like this stay scheduled for Monday night? Two teams battling it out for who will be last in the NFC west… thats like puking on a turd.
ouched - November 29, 2010
It would be very difficult logistically to move a game from Sunday afternoon to Monday night (or vice versa) for many of the fans. I can understand the NFL not wanting to do that to thousands of people who have already made travel plans months ahead of time.
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
Right, plus ESPN doesn’t have the power that NBC has to do the “flex”.
Bernie19Kosar - November 29, 2010
And the reason they don’t have the power is because the NFL doesn’t want to change games from Sunday to Monday.
Buckeye Brad - November 29, 2010
I can imagine the coaches would be extremely angry.
rufio - November 30, 2010
One team was a pre-season fashionable Super Bowl pick and the other was a playoff team last year.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
DA single-handedly ruined the Cardinals.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
He's made them look like the 2009 Browns
subterranean completion percentage and an inordinate number of 3-and-outs….better them than us…
DreadedOne - November 29, 2010
I enjoy watching another city boo DA.
He should stop trying to play pro football.
tribe71 - November 29, 2010
Did you ever read my UFL article? DA was the #1 player UFL ready still in the NFL.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Maybe he’ll get cut at the end of the season and sign with the UFL in time for the lockout.
He should be able to make the UFL pro bowl, no?
tribe71 - November 29, 2010
Dear God. Wort. Voters. Ever.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Haha, Gruden. “Mehhh, I don’t understand football anymore.”
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
He’d better rephrase that if he’s going to be our next coach!
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
DA pulled a DA. A terrible, terrible DA. Game over.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
Can you believe this guy is still in the league? Pathetic.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
I’d like to thank D.A. for winning two football pools for me this week. I took S.F., just on the basis of never, ever taking a team with him at the helm ever again. Score several $$ for me! Thanks D.A.!
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
OMG! Gruden just called out DA’s characteristic thing about not giving two s^&ts about the game! Haha!
They then showed DA pulling a hair out of his mouth from his beard. Ughhh.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
I’ve got a buddy that did some work on D.A.’s house when he was here. He said all he ever did was play video games and was just like a giant teenager.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
Haha, no fooling, eh? Glad he’s gone.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
DA was booed by Cardinal fans. Do they not deserve a winner? Or did Anderception learn his lesson about calling out fanbases?
Roger Dorn - November 29, 2010
Wait until he’s cut and his next team rolls them.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
REC.
emily522 - November 30, 2010
Only D.A. could reduce one of the best receivers in football to mediocrity.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
No, no, no. When you throw the ball 10 rows over his head, you reduce him to nothing.
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
True Dat.
DaveDawg09 - November 29, 2010
Cleveland Browns and Colt McCoy sighting on MNF!
SpecialBrownie - November 29, 2010
?
emily522 - November 30, 2010
They were talking about us numerous times last night. I was excited.
SpecialBrownie - November 30, 2010
I love how even after they missed the FG and we won the game Chris’ confidence meter is only at 50%. Only a Browns fan.
rufio - November 30, 2010
Ha! I missed that.
golanbatrac - November 30, 2010
Of course only 50%. You have to wait and see if there was a flag on the play.
JustBob - November 30, 2010
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