Joe Robbins - Getty Images
almost 2 years ago: ST. LOUIS MO - AUGUST 14: Sam Bradford #8 of the St. Louis Rams gets sacked by Jayme Mitchell #92 of the Minnesota Vikings during the preseason game at Edward Jones Dome on August 14 2010 in St. Louis Missouri. (Photo by Joe Robbins/Getty Images)
According to a tweet by ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Cleveland Browns traded a late-round pick in 2012 to the Minnesota Vikings in exchange for defensive end Jayme Mitchell. Let's take a look at some background information on the newest member of the Browns.
Mitchell (6-6, 285 lbs), who played college football at Mississippi, went undrafted during the 2006 campaign. The Vikings signed him as an undrafted free agent that year, and he has seen limited action every year since. Here are his year-by-year stats:
Here's what Daily Norseman, our Minnesota Vikings affiliate, had to say about Mitchell:
"I wish we could have gotten something more for Mitchell, but it is what it is. Better than letting someone that talented walk away without any compensation at all."
At least they didn't say, "pfft, how'd we get anything for this guy?" I didn't think the Browns were particularly hurt at the defensive line position, so this must be a player the scouting department had their eye on for whatever reason. Hopefully he ends up panning out like some of the other "bargains" the team has gotten (i.e. Matt Roth, Evan Moore).
There's no word on who the team waived to make room for Mitchell. If I had to guess, I would say Derreck Robinson.
0 recs | 244 comments
why not?
seems like the Vikings fans liked his potential.
If he helps our pressure/ pass rush, so be it.
discoinferno083 - October 5, 2010
I’m all for grabbing young backups off of really good defensive lines.
golanbatrac - October 5, 2010
This is my line of thinking.
Low price, high upside. I’m in.
Bernie19Kosar - October 5, 2010
I like what someone on one of the OBR message boards said along this line:
bross09 - October 5, 2010
This was my thinking.
Roger Dorn - October 5, 2010
Said this same thing on another post. Add to that what Ryan’s been able to do with Rubin, Roth and Schaefering, and we just may have another good find here. There’s definitely a need for some youth on the D-line. Rogers, Coleman and Smith are in their 30’s.
Hell, if they have 9 more left, let’s get another one!
theotherJimBrown - October 6, 2010
Who loves having a competent GM?
I do.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
/raises hand
emily522 - October 5, 2010
ooh! oooh! oooooh! I do, I do, Mr. Kotter.
J. W. - October 6, 2010
/longs for Phil Savage.
Kidding. That could virtually go as trolling around here.
Western Reserve - October 6, 2010
Don’t talk about Kwoog like that!
SpecialBrownie - October 6, 2010
this is pretty nice. We can really use the youth along the D-Line.
notthatnoise - October 5, 2010
Will he start?
troy145 - October 5, 2010
I figured he was brought in primarily for depth. But I think the Vikings run a 4-3, so I’m not sure how long it will take him to work his way into the rotation.
JustBob - October 5, 2010
If he’s a DE from a 4-3, it means he has to learn OLB probably. It could take him a bit.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
He is 6’6’’ 285 pounds and isn’t particularly fast. I think he is going to be a down lineman in our scheme, playing the 5 tech perhaps.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Roth is 260, I’m pretty sure. I don’t see much difference.
But that’s USUALLY how it works, could be wrong in this situation though.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
thats 25 pounds. that is a significant difference. whats the difference between your average safety and your average Linebacker? about 25 pounds…but thats a different position.
Roth is already pretty big for a stand up rusher. Roth had good size for a 4-3 end. He is closer in weight to Kenyon Coleman than Matt Roth.
You could be right. I am also making the assumption based on the roster and his skills. He ran a 4.95 at the combine, which is 4-3 DT speed, but not edge rusher speed. We also have much more need for youth and depth at DE than at OLB.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
I, I did my math wrong and thought 15 pounds. Fair enough.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
Its fine. Its entirely possible that they see him as an OLB, but his skill set seems more like a penetrating 5 tech (like a Shaun Ellis or Trevor Pryce)
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Roth is 260 after taking a dump that sets the standard for largest dump in the Guiness book of world records. I personally believe this is a hedge bet against Roth saying goodbye next year.
realmccoy - October 6, 2010
REC for most absurd and roundabout way of saying Matt Roth is more than 260 pounds. Plus I laughed.
Western Reserve - October 6, 2010
He better step it up even more if he thinks he is getting a payday.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
My guess is he is a DE for us.
rufio - October 6, 2010
Do you think he could help our pass rush get to the QB faster?
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
In the limited time he’s played he’s registered some sacks and hurries. I’d venture to say that he may help improve the pass rush. Time will tell.
dawgtribe - October 6, 2010
Haven’t watched enough of him in games. My guess is probably, especially if he played DE in a 4-3.
Our base DEs essentially need to play kind of like run-stopping 4-3 DTs (different responsibilities, but that kind of size/strength/power against the run). If we can get someone who can stop the run like a good 4-3 DT and who can play pass like a 4-3 DE, we have Richard Seymor.
Without getting too much into it, the Belichick method is to accept some dropoff in one area from your starters (such as this run-stopping ability) to build versatility into your roster. That’s why I think guys with similar skillsets to CJ Mosley fit the bill; they might not be as good at 2-gapping as guys like Coleman, but they are better pass rushers and can sub in to be DTs on passing downs.
If your backups have different strengths than your starters, you have versatility for sub-packages and it lets you do more things.
This guy sounds like that. Maybe he can be a DE when we go to 3 down linemen, maybe he can shift inside to DT.
rufio - October 7, 2010
from what I read, he was more of a run stuffing 4-3 by his skill set and his size seems more like a DE when we go with 3 down lineman.
bross09 - October 7, 2010
I hope he’ll be the DL equivalent to Evan Moore.
Adrock2099 - October 5, 2010
This.
emily522 - October 5, 2010
yes!
9James - October 7, 2010
Here is to hoping this works out half as good as the Peyton Hillis trade did!
OSUMoneyball - October 5, 2010
Nothing can work out that well.
StuckInPa - October 5, 2010
Not true. I just wish Denver was dumb enough to give us 1 more player on his caliber though.
J. W. - October 6, 2010
Looks like Randy Moss is being traded to the Vikings.
golanbatrac - October 5, 2010
wait really? randy moss back in a vikings uniform… huh…..
davus - October 5, 2010
That’s the rumor.
golanbatrac - October 5, 2010
…not like that will help Brett Favre this year.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Moss, Rice, Harvin and Peterson all on the field at once could make Brady Quinn look decent.
golanbatrac - October 5, 2010
or tavaris jackson
davus - October 5, 2010
or my dead grandfather who had his leg amputated below the knee. You almost don’t have to do anything with that amount of talent around you.
dawgtribe - October 6, 2010
I’m amazed they haven’t been to a superbowl the last few years.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
Right now favre has 2 out of those 4, plus Shiancoe. Unless they are serious about giving him a long term deal AND are going to find the QB of the future soon (whether it be by trade or through the draft), it doesn’t make sense. Even if they make this move and get rice back, I seriously doubt they make the playoffs.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Yeah, but they don’t have a number 1 receiver. With Moss they have a number 1, and when Rice gets back, he becomes the best number 2 in the league.
And the Vikes are in win now mode. Have been for a couple of years. The QB of the future is pretty low on the agenda right now.
golanbatrac - October 5, 2010
They have one year to win now, and that’s if Favre can stay healthy this year. He looks sooo old out there.
StuckInPa - October 5, 2010
Problem is Brady would have to throw downfield.
J. W. - October 6, 2010
Only if you squint through beer-goggles
9James - October 7, 2010
Did that at a Hall of Fame thing for certain football players in Stark County and horribly failed.
SpecialBrownie - October 7, 2010
If Sidney Rice could give Favre a career season last year, Moss will certainly help this year.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
2009 Favre =/= 2010 Favre
bross09 - October 5, 2010
2009 Vikings Receivers =/= 2010 Vikings Receivers
Which basically boils down to them no longer having Sidney Rice.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
So basically. 2009 Viks =/= 2010 Viks.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
Yup. Favre is going to throw into coverage no matter what. The difference maker is whether he has a guy that’s going to bail him out on otherwise bad throws. Sidney Rice was that guy last season. I think the Vikings FO is hoping Moss can be that guy for the last 3/4ths of this season.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
This is the kind of trade that turns Patriot Moss into Raider Moss, I’m afraid…
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
I doubt it. “Raider Moss” was his own doing. It’s about motivation for him (which is a total douchbag move, but that’s beside the point). According to the report, the Vikings are going to give him the contract he’s asking for, and thus they’ll see a Moss that’s actually trying.
See, it’s not about Patriot Moss and Raider Moss, it’s about Motivated Moss and Unmotivated Moss. “I play when I want to play” should be taken quite literally.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
…So why didn’t he play when the Raiders gave him a fat*ss contract. The money isn’t what motivates him…
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
He is one of the greatest WR’s I have ever seen play. However, he is also one of the greatest embarrassments to come out of WV in the NFL with his personality.
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
I couldn’t tell what his motivation issues were in Oakland. We do know that he obviously has motivation issues, and right now he wants a new contract. I never support this kind of appeasement of a**holes, but Minnesota is desperate…
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
but wouldn’t giving him a new contract put them at risk of getting “Oakland Moss”?
How many times in sports have we seen guys who light it up, want a new contract, but when they get a new contract, don’t do crap.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Valid point. But, I don’t think it’s worth the risk for the Vikings. Hell, a douchebag like that, capable of going off at any moment, isn’t worth paying just on principle no matter how good they are.
That said, I expect the Vikings to pull the trigger if NE agrees. They smelled that Super Bowl last year, and want it really bad.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
I totally agree. This move pays off for one year max IMO. They may sign him for more, but I don’t see Favre coming back at this rate.
If this happens, its a brilliant move for New England. They save tons of money they would have to pay Moss and they can use the Oakland pick to draft a future #1 (like a Michael Floyd)
bross09 - October 5, 2010
I get mad that the d-bag represents WV. Ohio, I might see, but WV.
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
I don’t know about where you live, but where I lived in the Northern Panhandle, it’s full of d-bags, but then again it’s pretty much just rural Pittsburgh there.
North Coast Flea - October 6, 2010
Randy Moss isn’t going to Minnesota to pout.
He is going there to do what he did at the start of New England.
Bernie19Kosar - October 5, 2010
I see it the other way but okay.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
I can see it going either way.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
He definitely seems more mature at this point in his career.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Ehh, if that was the case, he’d be giving 100% for his current team. He isn’t.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
You know he isn’t giving 100%? How so?
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
He dropped an easy TD pass that was easy as hell for the Moss that would’ve tried.
That’s how.
SpecialBrownie - October 6, 2010
Easy? Did you watch the play?
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he make a spectacular catch the week before? was that Moss not trying?
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
Yeah, he burned Revis and made a one hand no look over the shoulder catch for a TD.
golanbatrac - October 6, 2010
He plays when he wants to.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
…for now. Maybe he is okay for a year (and this itself is a large question mark IMO) but I don’t see him being okay in the long term in this way.
We also have never seen moss truly be a ‘team player’ and not be a distraction outside of the New England system. Childress does not run the tight ship Belichick does. Maybe Belichick was the only thing keeping Moss from being a problem (which I wouldn’t doubt).
bross09 - October 6, 2010
B.S. Why isn’t he a team player? He’s pissed that he doesn’t have a contract extension. So was Brady. He could have held out ala Revis.
Randy Moss isn’t a choir boy, but he isn’t some kind of team cancer.
Bernie19Kosar - October 6, 2010
He was a distraction at time in Minnesota and he underachieved in Oakland. money didn’t motivate him there. Maybe he has matured, but its hard to say for certain how he would do without Belichick as his coach. There is a good chance he works hard this year, but its all speculation at this point.
bross09 - October 6, 2010
None of this addresses why Moss isn’t a team player.
Bernie19Kosar - October 6, 2010
team player is a term I was using in a general sense. I shouldn’t have used team player because that wasn’t really what I was trying to say.
bross09 - October 6, 2010
I agree. I think it’s a good move for the Vikings to get more weapons for Favre. This will really help their offense this year, and I doubt Moss will be much of a distraction.
Buckeye Brad - October 6, 2010
Much more of a distraction than they already have.
rufio - October 7, 2010
He’s 3 years older than when he started with NE though. I still think he has some left in the tank, but frankly it’s risky to trade for guys with only 12 games left on their contract.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
If it happens, a contract extension is supposedly happening with it.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
And they only gave up a third rounder. I’s a steal of a deal.
golanbatrac - October 6, 2010
Yup. Even if it’s just for this year, I think it’s a good deal for the Vikings if he can help them get to the playoffs.
Buckeye Brad - October 6, 2010
I kind of like what the Pats are doing, but that’s just me.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
Agreed.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
+2
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
+3
SpecialBrownie - October 6, 2010
Me too. This deal works for both teams.
golanbatrac - October 6, 2010
Agree on this.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
You don’t think Brady is going to miss him?
Western Reserve - October 6, 2010
I think Brady thinks Moss is coasting and was probably asked about potentially trading Moss.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
this is definitely a move you want your QBs opinion on.
dawgtribe - October 7, 2010
I think if the Pats had gotten a first-rounder, sure. But a motivated Moss would have made them a Super Bowl contender, and nobody they get in the third round is going to do that.
Chemo - October 6, 2010
I guess I am saying they didn’t really have a choice. My take is that Moss was going to sabotage their season and be a problem.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
Agreed mostly. Not entirely sabotage, but surely wasn’t going to fully engage.
Also, with or without Moss, they we’re not going to win a Super Bowl. I think Belichick knows that.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
Yeah, that’s true.
Western Reserve - October 6, 2010
supposedly, he was already causing problems and getting in the coaches faces. I also heard somewhere that he requested a trade in week 1 too. maybe he just didn’t want to play under belichick from the beginning of the season
bross09 - October 6, 2010
Their ability to collect draft picks is astounding.
Moss isn’t even that important to their offense, IMO. Welker is much more valuable. It will be interesting to see now if they have someone who can beat the 1-on-1 on the outside when the defensive attention shifts to Welker.
Moss was largely a decoy recently, but he was a damn good decoy.
rufio - October 7, 2010
This might be an example of addition by subtraction.
dawgtribe - October 7, 2010
I don’t know, I think we are low-balling Moss a bit here.
Western Reserve - October 7, 2010
I haven’t really followed Moss’ attitude, which has always been his weakness. In terms of pure, physical potential, Moss is an enormous loss.
If the team functions much better without him, and they can find a guy to beat single coverage on the outside, maybe.
rufio - October 7, 2010
I remember reading at the time that his issues were: 1. he’s not a leader, he’s a self-admitted follower who needs rigid structure to maintain focus. The three ring circus in Oakland was the worst possible place for him to be; 2. He didn’t have any friends on that Oakland team. He was a country mouse on a team full of city mice.
I don’t know how true any of this is, but it at least sounds plausible.
golanbatrac - October 5, 2010
This is what I heard as well. I had a few friends play against him in high school when he played for Nitro (I believe). The kid was a superstar then, putting up ridiculous numbers.
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
He’s wanted to play with Favre forever, as well, so he’ll probably be happy to be with the Vikings and not cause any trouble.
Buckeye Brad - October 6, 2010
Turns out the Vikes aren’t going to give him a new contract until he proves he deserves it.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Interesting.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
is Sidney rice the difference between Brett Favre’s greatest season is his career and his worst? you are really going to tell me that because the injury with Sidney rice correlates with this, it is because Sidney rice and once rice is back, he will be great again?
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Sidney was the whole reason Favre was Favre last year
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
that is ridiculous to say. Is it possible Favre was the whole reason Sidney was Sidney last year? neither one can be proven, but I tend to lean towards Favre creating Sidney because Favre has been that good before, whereas Sidney has never shown the kind of consistency he showed last year.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Not the whole reason. He’s Sidney Rice, not Jerry Rice.
Buckeye Brad - October 6, 2010
THIS. Did people get confused?
bross09 - October 6, 2010
Uh, yeah! The Sidney Rice injury correlates with Favre’s play. The Sidney Rice injury correlates with Favre’s stats in 2009 and the decline seen in 2010 so far. Sidney Rice is the difference between his best season (‘09) and now (’10).
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
I don’t see causal evidence that Sidney rice caused Favre to have his best season.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Sorry buddy, I’m not the kind of person you can pull into one of these insanely long drawn out internet arguments over an unimportant topic. Generally they become dull, horse beating, hair splitting debates about the actual semantics of debate.
C’mon now guy, you just sighted a Wikipedia article on causation…
Try to remember we’re discussing our opinions of football while re-reading what you just posted.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
Future reference, it’s “cited” and not “sighted”.
Sorry, the know-it-all dbag in me couldn’t help it.
Adrock2099 - October 5, 2010
Thanks actually. I knew that, but it slipped my mind. You’ll find I make a lot of typos here.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
Rec for properly saying a lot.
North Coast Flea - October 6, 2010
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:Hyperbole-and-a-half(Hyperbole-And-A-Half)
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
That was pretty good.
North Coast Flea - October 6, 2010
I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of The Oatmeal, but this is his old website.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
most of his comics are not grammar related, but here is another one. This one is about the difference between “i.e.” and “e.g.”
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/ie
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
and the know at all D-Bag in me somehow missed that.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
and my opinion is that the evidence points to Favre creating Sidney Rice. Rice never had a season even remotely close to 2009. Statistically, 2009 was 3 times better than his next best statistical season and he was coming off a season where he did virtually nothing.
Brett Favre is a future HOFer and was coming off a solid season (that was great until the end when he was hurt). Brett Favre in 2009 had over 4000 yards, 30 touchdowns, a 63 completion %, at least 7 yards per attempt, and over a 90 QB rating.
That is a great season, but he has completed those tasks 5, 8, 7, 8, and 8 times respectively. He has in fact, completed all 5 tasks (4000, 30, 63%, 7ypa, and 90QBrtg) 2 other times in his career; 2004 and 1995. Was he really THAT much better in 2009 and 1995? statistically, no. He also didn’t even have as much talent with his weapons and relied much more than on spreading it around.
So you want to talk football? I see no causal reason why you can say that Favre’s season was pretty much all credited to Rice. Rice never performed like that before in his life, whereas Favre performed at similar levels multiple times in his career.
bross09 - October 5, 2010
Is this considered talking football?
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
How did your teams fall out this weekend in your fantasy leagues?
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
He was convincingly crushed by me
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
Nice! If Vick is out for a while I may be up sh$% creek without a paddle.
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
Bradford is doing awesome right now…
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
I know, question is what do you want for him?
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
Whatcha got?
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
hmm.. well my testicles and spine were given away after marriage. Beyond that, you’ll have to check out who’s on my team.
Kimble_79 - October 5, 2010
Straight up for Vernon Davis.
SpecialBrownie - October 6, 2010
I’ll set it up in yahoo….just hit accept and were good.
Kimble_79 - October 7, 2010
Still gonna trade for another QB? I guess having Freeman as a back up is good.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Exactly my thoughts…plus I don’t know when Vick will be back, and who’s to say Kolb doesn’t tear it up and Vick never gets back in?
Kimble_79 - October 7, 2010
I’ve got 3 quarterbacks with more or virtually the same amount of fantasy points as Bradford.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
I’ll give you your pick of any of my quarterbacks (McNabb/Sanchez/Hasselbeck) and Jonathan Stewart for Cedric Benson.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
I think I’m good now. Thanks
Kimble_79 - October 7, 2010
You’re getting fleeced.
You’re going to have no legit TE to replace Davis with. And if Vick makes it back, you’d have traded away a key piece for a short rental QB.
J Stewart would have replaced a starter with a start, just a minor downgrade and you get a choice of three QBs in the same caliber if not higher than Bradford.
Oh well, I understand if you don’t want to do that trade, but Davis is a loss I’m certain you’ll regret.
Simmsinns - October 7, 2010
Maybe, I just don’t think I’ll miss Davis as much as I would Benson. I can always swap someone Freeman or Bradford for a serviceable TE later if need be.
Kimble_79 - October 7, 2010
Serviceable TEs are a rare commodity in a 14 man league. It’s highly unlikely someone will be willing to swap one for either of those QBs.
Simmsinns - October 7, 2010
10.42 is a convincing crush, I suppose. But I’ve seen much worse. Wait, I won by 34.80 actually.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
Liar.
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
its no less talking about football than what you were saying about Sidney Rice in your comment at 10:23 EDT
bross09 - October 5, 2010
You can link comments like this.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
well…doing that doesn’t help because it doesn’t give an explanation.
Plus, I never learned how to make a link and make it appear by pressing certain words (like a hyperlink in word) instead of just pasting the URL
bross09 - October 6, 2010
Highlight the words that you want to create the link with and click on the link picture next to the quotes. Enter the URL in the box that pops up and you have your link.
Buckeye Brad - October 6, 2010
Like This?
bross09 - October 6, 2010
No, like this.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
I was asking about how to make a link to an outside link
bross09 - October 6, 2010
Oh, I see. My mistake.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
Longcat, meet Sidneycat
SpecialBrownie - October 5, 2010
Simply saying 1 player made another during a season is a crap argument. There are other players and coaches in MN besides the Favre show. The TEAM and PLAY CALLING helped them both to achieve a great season. Throw in a little AP to spread the defense and suddenly Favre and Rice have more opportunity.
browndawgbacker - October 6, 2010
yeah. lets not forget Favre has never had a RB that I can think of, of the magnitude of Peterson.
I dunno how much is due to playcalling, because Favre does audible a decent amount.
bross09 - October 6, 2010
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
pink. and an O. Sure this isn’t a pic of Orgamso?
discoinferno083 - October 9, 2010
i find this tough to belive, or envision.
what the heck would they have to give to get Moss?
discoinferno083 - October 5, 2010
I would guess a second rounder. Damn Belichek, they already have Oakland’s first and I think Carolina’s second.
StuckInPa - October 5, 2010
and now Minne’s third.
seems like cheap stuff to me.
I’m always amazed at draft round value compared to a current player’s talent.
never seems to add up for me.
discoinferno083 - October 6, 2010
A third actually seems more reasonable when they are going to get at most 2 or 3 more years out of the guy.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
The Patriots now have 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds this year. That is unbelievable.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Sounds like Bill Belichick
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
that’s awesome, no doubt about it. But it’s not like they haven’t given away extremely talented players to do it.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
Yes, though looking at his history in NE, he’s managed to either find no names to fill in, or vets on there last legs to get the job done for a year or two. I really hate seeing him get over on all of those teams, the guys a douche.
J. W. - October 6, 2010
I have not been all that impressed with some of their 2nd round picks lately either.
But there are just so many of them that some are bound to turn into stars.
rufio - October 7, 2010
You can’t assume contract extension when making trades though. They are trading 12 games (plus playoffs) of Moss for a 3rd round pick.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
I should elaborate…it’s a consideration for the acquiring team, but it doesn’t affect the trade value positively for the team trading away the player if a new deal is going to be worked out. Similar to in baseball, guys that are in the last year of their deal will require less to acquire then guys that have a few years left. See: Kamerion WImbley
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
I wasn’t including the whole contract situation. I understand they were only getting a year on the contract. I meant in his career. As in, they are trading for a guy who’s career is probably going to be over in a couple of seasons.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
I meant to reply to discoinfernos post, sorry if I replied to the wrong one.
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
Ah, ok.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
InterestingTheRealSlimShady - October 5, 2010
What is up with your font/weird grey highlighting lately?
rufio - October 7, 2010
Other thread he said it was sarcasm font. Not sure if that applies here…
Simmsinns - October 7, 2010
Got it.
rufio - October 7, 2010
Injury issues?
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
I believe he’s had one injury in what, 4 years?
StuckInPa - October 5, 2010
Don’t ask me? I don’t know, that is why I asked.
Simmsinns - October 5, 2010
So the Browns trade a late 2012 pick for a young potential 5-technique…
We needed some youth and depth on the defensive line so I’m all for it.
Let’s see what this kid can do. He must be pretty decent to make the team as a Viking D-lineman.
I think Rogers is likely to stay put at NT, barring injury/depth issues.
Bumblyjack - October 6, 2010
odds that the patriots will pursue panthers WR Steve Smith now????
sleepy042 - October 6, 2010
No chance. They have 8 picks in the first 4 rounds next year, one of them being the Raiders first. Something tells me they’ll find a good receiver there.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
why not? send them a 3rd get a elite WR that can help them TY (yes i know he’s got a high ankle sprain). suck the talent out him like a vampire & send him away for a 4th in a few years. he’ll play hard for a super bowl contender. belichick has already seen him from the super bowl game a few years ago. i mean seriously who would you play for clausen or brady?
sleepy042 - October 6, 2010
If they wanted an old disgruntled receiver they could have kept Moss, he’s better anyway.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
They’d be smarter to use that pick on defense. Sure, they’re sitting fine at 3 and 1, but that defense has still seen quite the implosion since 2007.
They are now bottom 10 in points allowed, also bottom 5 in total yards allowed and passing yards allowed. Stats that they were among the top of league in 2007.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
You really think they should use 8 picks in the first three rounds of a single draft on defense? I think they’d be crazy not to be looking for a replacement for Moss and a replacement for Mankins.
golanbatrac - October 6, 2010
Four rounds, that is.
golanbatrac - October 6, 2010
Think how stellar of a defense that would be though…
SpecialBrownie - October 6, 2010
A defense made up of rookies… ehhh.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
I thought he was referring to finding a receiver with the Raiders first round pick. I was saying that pick would be better spent on defense. They won’t win a Super Bowl with the defense they have now.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
Got it.
golanbatrac - October 6, 2010
They will take BPA
Roger Dorn - October 6, 2010
They always do.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
There defense hasn’t been good, but with the loss of mos, they have more talent on D than at the WR position. Is welker really a #1 receiver and Brandon Tate a #2 (or taylor price a #2)?
bross09 - October 6, 2010
Welker does what he does at the slot amazingly well, they’ll likely leave him there. But he can totally be a legit #1 in targets on that offense.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
He possibly can be a #1 when it comes to targets, but that doesn’t mean he can take on a #1 CB
bross09 - October 6, 2010
They question should be, can #1 CBs take on Welker?
Welker in the slot is going to be harder than a lot of good #1 wide receivers.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
That’s what I was thinking. Try matching a #1 corner on Welker in the slot and see if he can be contained.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
I am more thinking Welker lining up outside of the slot. a #1 CB guarding him in the slot would be interesting. I was just generally thinking of welker playing where moss would be playing and going against a #1
bross09 - October 6, 2010
I don’t think Welker is even built to be a #1. How tall is he?
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
that is my basic point. I don’t think he would do that well lining up on the outside instead of the slot.
Welker is 5’9’’ 185 pounds with a 36 inch vertical leap out of HS. Then again, Steve Smith (panthers) is 5’9’’ 185 and had a 38.5 inch vertical leap
bross09 - October 6, 2010
It would be incredibly dumb for them to move him out of the slot and expect him to replace Moss as not only #1, but also in receiving style. And I don’t think they will.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
They won’t.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Prediction: this will not even come in to play because Welker won’t be outside.
rufio - October 7, 2010
probably not
bross09 - October 7, 2010
Welker will play in the slot. Ultimately, the defense decides which corner is on him.
rufio - October 7, 2010
Vincent Jackson from SD?
realmccoy - October 6, 2010
I heard people speculating this morning that they may use some of those picks to get Vincent Jackson from the Chargers. They’re going to need help at WR this year if they want to make a playoff run because I have a feeling that Welker’s production is going to fall now that Moss isn’t on the field.
Buckeye Brad - October 6, 2010
Wow, Tom Brady and Vincent Jackson? That sounds downright scary.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Meh. Not nearly as scary as Brady – Moss circa 2007. Once you’ve seen that every other modern day combo is just… less astonishing.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
I understand Moss is really good, but I feel there are more than a few #1 WRs that could look spectacular with Brady throwing to them.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
I’m not sure if it’s true any more, but circa 2007, Randy Moss was still the best WR in the NFL when he wanted to be. just my opinion though.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
I’d love to see VJ in New England, just so we could know if it was Moss or Brady. It was most likely a combination of both, but Tom Brady is still one of the best QBs in the league now, if not ever.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Definitely a combination of both players amazing skill, but also hugely because they knew the defenses plays, as I mention below.
Also, any year of Vincent Jackson (past, present or future) isn’t even close to Randy Moss in his prime.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
ESPN reported this AM that the Pats were NOT going to trade for VJ.
Brownsyup - October 7, 2010
It usually works better when they know the coverage and can audible to proper blitz protection, having memorized the opposing defenses signal calling.
Now that they can’t pull that off anymore, we won’t see any of Brady’s receivers match 2007 Moss.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
In no way do I think any of his current receivers will match 2007 Moss. You are 100% correct. But what I’m saying is if he had another player of Moss’ caliber, say Calvin Johnson or Vincent Jackson, I think he could make them look as good.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
Ahh, I didn’t get the spygate reference.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
I also don’t think VJ is the same caliber as Moss or Calvin.
Some might remember from past discussions, I don’t think VJ is nearly as good as some other people on this blog. Tier 2.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
My point still stands for Tier 1 WRs.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
I would cite someone like Andre Johnson or Larry Fitz for someone that would be interesting on New England. Of course neither of those 2 would ever end up on the Pats.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
That last part is true, but yes, those two are outstanding and could only be better with Brady throwing to them.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
weren’t they busted the year before though?
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
Right you are. I retract my statement about it affecting the 2007 amazing Brady Moss combo.
It did, however, win them Super Bowls.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
I agree with your last sentence. Maybe they could have done it without cheating, but they didn’t, so as far as I’m concerned those Super Bowl victories are illegitimate.
I also think it would be ridiculous to believe they only did it for one game or whatever they claimed. I find it especially suspicious that the league destroyed the evidence.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
They just gave it to the Saints, pretty obvious.
SpecialBrownie - October 6, 2010
I’ve always assumed if the real, whole truth were made public, they’d have had to go back and completely strip the Super Bowl wins. What about the stats, the historical implications… it was all too much for the NFL to deal with. So instead they slapped them on the wrist, harder they’ve ever slapped before, but a wrist slap nonetheless. Then went on their way, business as usual.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
Bingo
Bernie19Kosar - October 6, 2010
“didn’t tape the rams walkthrough” my ass.
notthatnoise - October 7, 2010
With this addition… SUPERBOWL BABY!
Brownsyup - October 6, 2010
The 4-3 has finally arrived then?
mooncamping - October 6, 2010
No.
Simmsinns - October 6, 2010
LB or DE
On the way in to work WTAM mentioned the trade in a newsbreak & said we traded a pick to MN for a LB.
I thought “Don’t we have enough already” ,so I’m assuming he is gonna play at DE.
Groza - October 6, 2010
what are the possiblity of Rogers getting traded by the trade deadline for a pick in next years draft and have this kid move to a number 2 on our depth chart on DE…just a thought cuz Rogers is getting up there in age and has been injured for most of this year and the end of last year…what do you yall think
Internalfire48 - October 6, 2010
I wouldn’t be too disappointed if we traded Rogers. Yes, he helps our pass rush, but his days are numbered.
StuckInPa - October 6, 2010
yeah thats an interesting idea. definitely wouldn’t be opposed to it, myself.
troy145 - October 6, 2010
2 or 3 years ago this would have been ridiculous, but I don’t think Rogers will be around for the super bowl run, and he hasn’t exactly been a beast when he could play this year, so I wouldn’t be opposed. Assuming we get good value of course.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
I was wondering this, too. With his current health, I don’t know how much he’s contributing anyhow.
NM Dawg - October 6, 2010
of course, this means he isn’t worth much.
notthatnoise - October 6, 2010
I would trade Rogers for Kolb.
Other than that, if it isn’t a first or second rounder, no deal. I doubt we get that for him.
Bernie19Kosar - October 6, 2010
i would be sad to see Rogers go before his contract is up (when, i have no idea).
his upside (size, athleticism, blocking kicks) alone makes him enough to reserve a spot for. (see this pre-season)
discoinferno083 - October 9, 2010
I am surprised if Mitchell has the athleticism to play OLB at his size. That is a big dude. But if Mangini says he might play some OLB, I am intrigued.
rufio - October 7, 2010
Yep. Don’t doubt me.
SpecialBrownie - October 7, 2010
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