Jared Wickerham - Getty Images
Even Colt is lookin' around the corner. (Photo by Jared Wickerham/Getty Images)
At 12:55pm EST Sunday, my sports weekend had sucked. Big time. I looked at the Cavs' starting five for the first time. Ohio State lost in horrific fashion. The cherry to this bullsh*t sundae was the Browns were trotting out a rookie QB for his first ever start. On the road, against the team I hate most.
Did I mention that one of my closest friends is a Steelers fan, and he loves to text during games? After a 31-3 beatdown I would rather get a text from Favre on a bender.
I had read all week how Colt McCoy was going to be lucky to get out of Pittsburgh in one piece, let alone alive. Maybe they were right. We are talking about a Steelers pass defense that had only given up one passing TD to opposing starting QB's. My God, what are we sending McCoy into?
This isn't a slam on Colt (Yeah, I know him well enough to go first name with him now). I had been stoked about rookie performances before. I convinced myself that Luke McCown was possibly the future of the Browns. Yes, we are talking about this Luke McCown. It wasn't just him. I did it with Holcomb, Couch, Frye and of course Quinn.
Not this time. This time I wouldn't get sucked in. Nope. Covering my ass. Let some other sucker buy the jersey. He was a third round pick after all. Jimmy Clausen went before him, and that dude looks like he sucks.
So you can understand my mentality as we teed it up Sunday. I am sure that many of you shared the same feelings. Deep down you were expecting the worst. Sure we were hoping for the best, but we assumed that this day was going to end with Reggie Hodges taking shotgun snaps and running for his life. Good times.
Best case scenario was maybe 175 yards passing, couple of turnovers, and hopefully a couple of throws that I could be excited about going forward. That's not asking too much right?
You know what they say about assuming things right?
McCoy got sacked on his first drive. I expected him to fall apart after the INT. He didn't. Next drive, he hung in the pocket, stared down a rush, stepped up in the pocket and delivered a frozen rope to Watson for a first down. Third and ten, rush collapses the pocket, he tucks it and keeps us in FG range. To hell with what Soloman Wilcots thinks, that is a damn fine play. How many times have we seen a Browns QB try and force something or take a sack in that spot?
3-0 Browns. Baby steps.
It wasn't pretty, it wasn't Peyton Manning-esqe. But we had taken the bullies punch and we punched back. Our young players were the reason we were able to take that punch. Haden's INT was a thing of beauty. Watch the replay of it, he had to focus through numerous hands and arms to make that grab. Baby steps.
He returned it and we got points out of it. Not a TD, but points. That's progress.
Fast forward to the end of the game.
23-33, 281 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT
Doesn't look like much more than what I expected, but when I watched the game, I saw something that I haven't seen in a long time. I saw a leader, an athlete, someone who wasn't afraid of the rush. I saw someone who wasn't afraid of the moment. I saw the starting QB of the Cleveland Browns. It's only one start, I know. Yes, I probably said something like this after a good Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn start. But this felt different.
Everyone knows that I haven't been the biggest Mangini fan. In fact, he is the only reason I break out the pitchfork anymore. But it is now time for me to own up. I was wrong. For everyone who told me that I would be wrong, my bad. You were right.
I have no doubt in my mind that a Romeo Crennel team gets housed by 20+. Same for Butch. This Browns team isn't the most talented. Not the most athletic. Hell I'm not sure we have a starting WR on the roster right now. But damn it this team fights. This team will make you pay for every yard. I guarantee you the Steelers spend some extra time in the tub Monday. That doesn't mean much now, but that is what we have lacked for so long. Call it toughness, backbone, whatever. All I know is that it is something that we haven't had for years.
We keep hearing Mangini talking about how close this team is to turning the corner. He references the Patriot teams he coached. Sometime's all you need is a domino to fall in the right direction. Something to set off that chain reaction.
I know we lost, but Sunday's game made my weekend. In fact, this was better than the win over Cincy.
It's coming fellas. Soon these baby steps are going to turn into steps, then to leaps and bounds. We may not win another game for a few weeks, but I know we will be getting better those weeks. Don't give up yet. We're rounding the corner, and when we do, the NFL is gonna have hell to pay.
9 recs | 985 comments
love this post. It gives me some hope going into the next game in New Orleans. Im flying down all the way from Vancouver, BC, Canada with my Dad for the game and i would love the Browns come out with a victory
BrownEye - October 18, 2010
That’s awesome. Hope you enjoy the game!
skipkirk - October 18, 2010
Everyone said that this game was the worst situation to put a rookie QB into. On the road against our arch-rivals who have arguably the best D in the league. Very little talent. Too many injuries. There was no way a rookie QB was going to pull off a win in those circumstances. Doomed to failure. Confidence sure to be destroyed.
I’ll make this argument, guys: the worst case scenarios are when you see the true character of a person. In the worst case scenarios you see if you really have a player or not. Colt’s a player. Colt’s got “it”. He’s got the intangibles you want in a QB. Forget the final score. Forget the injuries to Cribbs and MoMass. Forget the team’s record at the end of the season. It’s possible that we just found out that we have the answer to the biggest need on this football team.
Now this team has two priorities. 1. Protect McCoy until their last breath, do not let him get injured under any circumstances. 2. Get him some weapons! Get some talent around him. Get more depth on the line.
dawgtribe - October 18, 2010
I know Dorn will probably disagree, but we could REALLY use a Brandon Marshall/Calvin Johnson/Andre Johnson type of threat on this offense.
rufio - October 18, 2010
And I agree, I thought Colt played pretty well, considering the situation. He showed some things other (new) Browns QBs haven’t shown.
rufio - October 18, 2010
At this point we could use anyone who can run routes, get open, and catch balls.
dawgtribe - October 18, 2010
We have 2 guys who can do that. They just can’t do it against many forms of double coverage.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Why would anyone disagree with that? It is a glaring weakness.
Red-Right-88 - October 18, 2010
Dorn has always said that there are more important positions on the field than WR and we should focus on getting those players first. He thinks WR should be the last piece of the team we draft.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
To clarify because I think people are overgeneralizing Dorn’s position: there are positions on the field where we are weak that are smarter investments of first round selections and money. WRs in the first are too risky for a team that is 2-3 years away especially when a QB is needed.
Yesterday showed us that maybe – just maybe – we have our QB. And if that is the case then we are much closer to “turning the corner” to be in a position to take a chance on a WR.
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
Agree with all of this.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
One thing though… you really don’t know if you have a good QB when you don’t have good receivers for him to throw too. I mean if guys aren’t getting open and are dropping balls, the QB might be checking down and getting some pretty poor stats. After a few games of that people are calling for his head. I don’t think you can ignore any position that you can improve through the draft of free agency. I think the Browns did that this year at the receiver posiiton.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
Who should they have brought in?
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
“ANQUAN BOLDIN, VINCENT JACKSON, HOUSH, FTW”!
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Well Boldin and VJax are studs.
TheDriveStillHurts - October 18, 2010
Bradford is making due with just as bad WRs as we have.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
This is an excellent point.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Lets put Bradford and his receivers at Pittsburgh…
Red-Right-88 - October 19, 2010
You can get a good look at a t-bone steak by sticking your head up a bull’s ass, but I would rather take the butcher’s word for it.
In other words… In Holmgren I Trust…
Spidey - October 18, 2010
I may use this as my new signature. Love it!
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
R.I.P Chris Farley
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Is that who the saying came from? He was one funny guy! I still chuckle at his “van down by the river” skits.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
That quote is from Tommy Boy. Maybe his finest work.
Beverly Hills Ninja? Not so much.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Ah yes. I got it now. Tommy Boy was/is great. Agree with the Ninja one. Not great.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Black Sheep is a close second.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Fantastic movie and underrated as well. His cartwheeling scene in the parking lot is gold.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
You must have missed it in the other thread, but Dorn was actually saying that it’s time to get a #1 receiver on this team. I was quite surprised myself.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Hahaha, I am warming up to it. We definitely shouldn’t draft a WR just for the sake of it, but with this deep WR draft coming up, I think it makes sense. If we could also acquire a top WR for a 2nd or 3rd, I wouldn’t be terribly opposed.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
we should get AJ GREEN hes a stud and then a DL,OL and i would love for them to get sanzenbacher as a slot reciever and maybe a LB too
Shaffdog - October 18, 2010
If Green is available, we should get him. People say he’s undersized but Julio has only played like 3 quarters in his entire career when he wasn’t fighting an injury.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
Julio has at best 10-15 pounds on green. the only major knock on green is his slender frame which he can easily bulk up and has done some. He also isn’t the greatest route runner, but that can also be taught.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I have liked Julio for a while. His stock is down but he could be a player. I think everyone has Green higher on their boards right now.
rufio - October 18, 2010
If Green is gone, Julio is definitely still a great pick up.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
I just worry he could be Braylon 2.0. Julio definitely has all the physical skills to be a superstar, but he always seems to drop the easy pass and lose focus.
and for being such a big, and physically gifted target, he doesn’t seem to be utilized a lot in the RZ.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Well, a lot of Braylon’s problems were in his head. That really shouldn’t be an issue for Julio.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
a lot of braylon’s problems were mental. concentration. even going back to michigan, he had problems with concentration which affected his hands. Julio has the same problem. Its not like he can’t catch the ball or doesn’t have ‘soft hands’ he just has major lapses in concentration and it is annoying to watch.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Julio’s drops are largely injury related. He’s played the last two weeks with a broken hand and thats nothing new.
troy145 - October 19, 2010
really? so the dropped balls in the past were also injury related? he has had problems with drops before this season. if those were injury related, then maybe he is seriously injury prone and thats another issue. and if you try to say that he only started dropping balls this year when he was injured, I counter with this from a post from TideFans.com
bross09 - October 19, 2010
I don’t think the red zone targets is a fair criticism. The hands/concentration issue is something he will have to overcome.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Yes, the hands he will have to overcome and prove doubters wrong. they said the same about BE and for a while it looked like he may prove them wrong.
Maybe it isn’t a fair criticism. maybe its partly because of the offense. however, for a guy who is 6’4’’ and on such a good team, he doesn’t score a lot of TDs.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
WR red zone receptions are influenced by everything from the offensive line to the QB to the score to the coaching philosophy to the opposing defense.
rufio - October 19, 2010
and thats why I said it may not be a fair criticism. I have no idea why he only has 11 career TDs (and no more than 4 in a season), but it would be ridiculous to hold it against him as a weakness…
I more just wonder why that is, considering his size and ability.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
Don´t forget safety and CB – both have to be addressed very early and often.
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
Not necessarily. CB in the 2nd but our Safeties can suffice through free agency or maybe Asante finally becomes something…
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
As Brad said, I am ready to hop on the acquire a big play threat bandwagon.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Now that we apparently have a quarterback who seems like could get the big play threat the ball on a regular basis.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
Yes, and an offensive line so that we don’t ge tour QB’s killed.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Would it be lunacy to draft Pryor and play him as a WR. He’s deceptively fast, tall, and a very physical player who could also run the wild cat with Cribbs.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
Not going to happen. He’s a QB.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
This I know, but I can dream can’t I? Could you not imagine Cribbs, Pryor and Hillis in the backfield and McCoy lined up at WR.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
Holy crap that’d be a huge train wreck.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Yeah, a huge train wreck of what the heck awsomeness.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
Won’t go down.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
He’s only a junior also. He’ll hopefully stay another year
The naome40 - October 18, 2010 via mobile
He’ll probably stay, since he won’t have the chance to win the championship or the heisman
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
It’s waaaaay to early to be talking about this. Pryor won’t be coming out until 2012 anyways (unless he’s really stupid). Let’s let the kid develop more in college before we start moving him to another position.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
I hope he isn’t really stupid, but that may all depend on how much time he spends with LBJ.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
They guy is just throwing it out there. The idea is that out of the question.
Still, if Pryor pulls a Troy Smith come senior season, there’s no way he isn’t draft as a QB.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Physically, Pryor could be a great WR I just seriously doubt his ability to make the incredible catches you need to make in the NFL.
He is already leaps and bounds from where he was last year as a QB (despite the disappointing Wisco/Illinois games) and I suspect he will stick around another year to try to make a similar improvement next year and turn himself into a draftable QB.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Exaclty. However, with the right receiving coach, that ability is something that can be learned and acquired, because we already know he has the perfect build for it.
But yes, I agree 99.99% with your second part, hopefully we see him make that jump his senior year.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I just think at this stage of his development after 3-4 years of working that hard on becoming a QB and not at all at being a WR, especially at the age he is at, he would never be able to become a WR that makes highlight reel catches.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Fair. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
That said, we’ll never know because he’ll be drafted as a QB after making a huge leap his senior season a la Troy Smith.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
If he can mimic that career path (minus the Florida game, obviously) I would be extremely pleased.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Not trying to burst your guys bubble or anything, but I just don’t see Pryor becoming an NFL style QB. I could be wrong, I just don’t see him being a true passer.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
1. Did you watch him last year before the Oregon game?
2. Have you watched him this year in not the Illinois/Wisco games?
He’s coming along nicely, but he’s not there yet. He’s made some NFL throws this year, though.
And like Vick or VY, or even a guy like Cutler, running should always be a part of his game. “True passer” be damned, the kid can move the rock.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I watched bits and pieces last year, but I’ve only watched the Illinois and Marshall games this year. The kids a great athlete no doubt, I just don’t know about being an NFL QB.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Personally, I wouldn’t want the Browns to draft Pryor. But idk. My tune may change about his NFL potential next year. Declaring this year would be an awful decision.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
It all depends on what we see his senior year. But remember this, year for year thus far, he’s been better than the best quarterback Ohio State has ever had, Troy Smith. If he continues that pattern, we are in for one hell of a 2011.
(Although, Posey and Szanz are no Ginn and Gonzo.)
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Sanzenbacher is a senior. He won’t be around next year.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
Vince Young didn’t look like an NFL QB until his senior year at Texas, either.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Didn’t Young only play through his junior year?
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
OK, then I meant his junior year. But he was a redshirt junior so it was still his fourth year.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Right, I know. I hope he does continue to get even better for you guys next year. Just my opinion, I’m no NFL scout though.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
well that honestly wasn’t a great cross section of how he has done this year.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Exactly, if he’s ever to make it in the NFL, you have to let Pryor be Pryor.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Is that like Manny Being Manny?
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Haha. Oh, boy. If so, I hope with much more mental competence.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Prior has made progress over the past year. But I also feel that his ability to run is both his biggest strength and at the same time hinders the rest of the team. Case in point: the Indiana game. He was injured and they refrained from calling running plays for him to prevent further injury. The result was that he had his best game passing and the rest of the offense was really productive. Obviously, Indiana isn’t good, but the defense had to account for everyone on offense instead of just focusing on Pryor. IMO, the Buckeyes offense would be more dangerous if Pryor stays in the pocket and gets everyone else involved. His legs are more of an asset when protection breaks down or if they call 5-10 running plays for him per game to keep the defense on edge. That’s how Troy Smith won the Heisman.
dawgtribe - October 19, 2010
They usually don’t call running plays for him. They have the fake Dave/rollout which can be a called run or pass, and the occasional QB draw.
It isn’t like we are running rich rod’s offense, Pryor scrambles a lot.
rufio - October 19, 2010
…mimic but do better. If he is only picked that low in the draft, I wouldn’t be that pleased (pro prospects wise). I think at this point he is significantly more polished than troy was as a junior and already has better physical skills. I hope he can mimic the heisman, but I think it would be a bit of a disappointment considering where he is right now if he was troy smith in the NFL (backup, 6th round pick)
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I think the whole 6’6" 4.3 40 thing will help Pryor’s draft stock.
I meant college career.
rufio - October 18, 2010
okay. then I agree. i think he is already farther along than troy at this point so I really hope he can win a heisman and/or make it to a NC game.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Troy Smith was incredibly better as a passer as a junior compared to Pryor. Heck, Smith was probably a better pure passer as a sophomore than Pryor is right now. But Smith is about as bad a comparison as you can make for two guys. Besides playing in somewhat of the same system, they have very different weapons around them and possess very different skills.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
Ohio State needs an offensive coordinator and special teams coach.
Anyone else think Jamal Berry is the best RB on the team?
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Ummm yea why are we not using Berry more? Sorry to just jump in, but I totally agree. Even though Herron looked pretty decent against Wisconsin. I am not a Saine fan.
Pryor and Berry could be pretty fun next year.
jsneides - October 18, 2010
Especially with the running attack we seem to have.
Saine is a better pass catcher than runner IMO. He is dangerous as hell on wheel routes.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Yea was it two games ago he ran a route up the sideline … I was like who the hell is that. I thought it was Posey.
Side note: I am really disappointed with Tressel ball coming back though. I thought we might have moved past it. To me its like having Favre as your QB. The way Tressel/Favre plays will win you games and lose them. I really thought we should have went for it when we kicked the FG. And on the other 4th down in the 4th quarter. Just really made me sick to be that timid team again.
jsneides - October 18, 2010
The FG call was the right one. You’ve got to trust your kicker to make it, than we’d have tied it up with that 4th quarter drive changing the dynamic of the game completely… still it’s pointless to speculate.
I think the biggest mistake the whole game was allowing that 3rd down conversion @ 10:57 left in the 4th.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Yea I thought of all things to fail us, it wouldn’t be our defense. I almost felt when we got back to being a FG down our defense just let up on them. O well. Im excited to see how the rest of the season plays out. And if we beat Michigan and win whatever bowl we go to. I’ll be fine.
jsneides - October 18, 2010
The Wisconsin o-line deserves a lot of credit. Those 5 guys won the game. Without a shadow of a doubt, the best o-line in college football this season.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Wisconsin always has good linemen.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
it’s the home of the messiah.
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
I thought Graham Chapman was dead?
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
he was referring to Eddie Gein
jaws. - October 18, 2010
I smell a double helping of pancakes…
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
god, this is funny in so many ways.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
yea they man handled the hell out of OSU
jsneides - October 18, 2010
It’s the Joe Thomas effect.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
It seems like OSU has a lot more trouble finding RBs than the other big schools. I mean Florida has no problem re loading on scatbacks and every year it seems like alabama and Oklahoma have another DeMarco Murray or somthing. Meanwhile I haven’t been truly impressed by an OSU running back since Maurice Clarett.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
Just because you were not impressed doesn’t mean Beanie Wells wasn’t a complete beast, because he was. Seriously, he very well may have been a turf toe injury away from a Heisman.
I miss that guy. Antonio Pittman was great too. I also think the Boom – Saine combo is getting some unwarranted flack, because their great as well.
Actually, I’d say you’re way off here. We don’t have any trouble getting fantastic running backs.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
This is silly. The Buckeyes have 4 RBs that would start on 75-85% of FBS teams.
Also, if you weren’t impressed with Beanie Wells, well, I don’t know what to tell you.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
I’m not saying that i don’t like beanie’s skills. He was definitely a beast. I suppose he was held back a little at times by a less than stellar (by osu’s standards) offensive line. And he was a little bit injury prone. I guess he was “impressive” but osu’s running game as a whole wasn’t so impressive as a whole, when compared to florida, alabama, oklahoma, etc.
Moreover, I was comparing us to oklahoma, alabama and florida, (and a lesser extent miami i guess) who seem to have no trouble bringing in just absolutely elite talents year after year. I liked antonio pittman and i definitely gotta say that beanie was a beast, but look Oklahoma graduated Peterson and followed him up with Demarco Murray and Chris Brown.
Alabama had mark ingram go for 1600 yards and 17 touchdowns last year, including 116 yards and 2 tds in the championship game, but they also had trent richardson go for 750 yards and 8 touchdowns, including 109 yards and 2 touchdowns in the championship game.
Yeah we had beanie, but he was just one guy (supported by the constantly underwhelming maurice wells) and he only really had the one great season. He isn’t that fast, and he was banged up a lot.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
Who did Alabama have at RB that was so great before Ingram? And who has Florida had at RB that’s been great since, I don’t know, Fred Taylor? The only reason Florida had a running game over the past few years was Tebow — they never had any good RB’s, let alone great ones.
And Beanie only had one great season? Really? He was great in ’06 while sharing time with Pittman, fantastic in ’07, and great in ’08 when healthy.
I’m sorry, but you really have no idea what you’re talking about.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Yeah, I think you have some selective memory. Ingram is great and all, but Alabama’s offense wasn’t elite at any point until and maybe including last year. Florida had a bunch of system backs. Oklahoma is one school that has had significantly more talent at RB.
But your post was that OSU has trouble finding RBs compared to top flight programs. They’ve got some of the best to come out of High School in the last 5 years. Want an elite program that hasn’t been able to find RBs or a running game consistently lately? Try Texas.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
um, Jamaal Charles?
woodsmeister - October 19, 2010
I did honestly forget about him. Though he is borderline in considering guys coming into college in the last 5 years.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Not on Wells level?
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
Not sure what you are asking.
I’m saying he is borderline in being disqualified from this conversation because he was a 2004 recruit and I’m talking about the ability for programs to attract new talent at RB in the last 5 years.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
I missed your point.
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
Not in college, he wasn’t. At least not that I remember without looking up stats. Wells was an absolute beast at OSU, one of the 2 or 3 best RB in college when he was healthy.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
(you may want to look at the stats)
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Haha, okay.
Buckeye Brad - October 20, 2010
We aren’t looking for that guy in our offense right now. If you head to Along the Olentangy, read some of Ross’ stuff on our offense. It is Terrell’s ballgame right now.
Plus, I am excited about Berry/Hall, Rod Smith, and we have 2 potential 5-star recruits coming in next year at RB.
Saine and Boom don’t overwhelm me though. Neither did Marcus Hall and that other bigger guy we had.
rufio - October 19, 2010
And Carlos Hyde.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
I can’t tell if he is good yet.
rufio - October 20, 2010
No. Yes, Saine is a fantastic pass catcher, and better at that than running. (He’d be monster on the Saints, he’s perfect for them.)
But I doubt Berry has what it takes (yet) to be more productive than Boom.
Lastly, if your going to live by Tressel ball, you’ve got to be willing to die by it as well. Personally, I feel that our predictable zone defense has cost us far more than anything else over the years.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Yea I just hate the dying. But I understand I can’t have my cake and eat it too.
I don’t understand why Saine was getting the majority of carries in the earlier games. Boom is clearly better. I haven’t looked at the breakdowns, but it seemed like Saine was always in.
jsneides - October 18, 2010
Overall, Boom has more than double Saine’s carries. Saine still gets a lot of reps, but it’s generally as a pass threat.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Well that proves me wrong haha. Thanks for the info. I guess just my perception of the bad things outweighing the good with Boom and Saine.
I also thing in the First half our offense got back to old Pryor which really hurt us. Run first wasn’t going to win us that game.
jsneides - October 18, 2010
Our offense has also taken a lot of unnecessary flak for our lack of success running the ball this year.
Teams are terrified of our running game for some reason and are letting TP tear them up. Wisconsin went with the reverse strategy and we didn’t make the adjustment until it was too late.
rufio - October 19, 2010
In terms of OSU football, it took me like seven years to realize this.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Yea I realize it I just choose to forget when we are doing well. And then come crashing down to earth when it comes back to bite me.
jsneides - October 18, 2010
I won’t argue that.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I feel like in big games our defense often stands tall, (especially that USC disaster last season) but the offense seemingly has a really mediocre gameplan.
What frustrated me the most was the huge gulf in the quality of the gameplan between that huge OSU / USC game in columbus last year and then the rose bowl against oregon. Tressel or somebody realized that what they did against USC was just disgustingly bad and didn’t give their kids a chance to win. Luckily enough they realized their mistake before the rose bowl.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
I would love to see more of Berry. Boom has been good on the ground recently, and Saine gives us good options in the passing game, but Berry should see some touches IMO.
rufio - October 19, 2010
From what i have seen, I disagree on their skills as a passer.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Not sure what your disagreeing with.
Troy Smith could make intermediate and deep throws as good as anyone you’ve seen on the college level. Tressel has totally taken Pryor’s arm out of the game as recently as the 2nd half of last year. Even in the Rose Bowl, most of the passes were to the sidelines with a large margin of error. Pryor struggles with passes in the middle of the field, especially slants, and intermediate crossing patterns. Throws that require accuracy in small windows. Smith, as early as his late Sophomore year, was a surgeon in those areas.
Pryor is just now starting to get it. And he might become the better QB overall. But he has a long way to go to get in the same conversation as Smith when it comes to passing.
Darn it, I’ve been pretty good at ignoring you, bross… something about Troy Smith makes me act outside of my best interest…
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
Now you’ve done it, bross: you’ve awaken the sleeping giant; the Troy Smith apologist! ( I say that apologetically, of course.)
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Yup, you will be hard-pressed to find a bigger Smith defender. Also, this conversation has combined another pet peeve by bluntly comparing two players with minimum similarities.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
But they’re both black QB’s from OSU so oviously they must be similar.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
Where did anyone say that? I’d think that people compare the two because, as dissimilar as they are, Smith is the closest approximation to Pryor available among recent OSU QBs. Beckman? Krenzel? Not even close. You’d have to go back to Steve Belisari to find a QB more like Pryor than Smith, and Belisari was a John Cooper recruit.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
He’s making fun of the sterotype Golan.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
DBN: Where no lighthearted, non-literalist comment goes unpunished.
This routine is starting to get a bit tired around here.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
Reread my post. Now who does that sound like?
I’ll make a greater effort to telegraph my jabs in the future. To hell with subtlety!
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
Damn, you did it so well!
Kudos, Mr. Golan.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Oh, shoot, I completely missed it.
Tip of the cap to you.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
That’s the point. Comparing those 6 players to eachother is just not very useful.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
One of our favorite pass concepts this year is the Drive concept, and the main read is between a shallow cross and a “hunt” route, which is basically an intermediate In route where the receiver sits down as soon as he is open in zone.
In other words, Pryor is good at throwing intermediate over the middle.
Also, there are plenty of clips of Pryor throwing to double slants, one of the packaged concepts we used to beat Oregon.
From the Rose Bowl on, Pryor has been solid in these areas. He is a different QB running a different (more horizontal) system, and the threat of him scrambling will always be a much bigger weapon for him than for Smith—they are different QBs for sure. Perhaps Smith was more accurate, but to suggest that Pryor is not an accurate passer over the middle…I disagree.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I guess I don’t see it. The Rose Bowl passes, in my memory, were almost exclusively to the sidelines. I do like Pryor’s deep ball and he has the arm strength. But I don’t see the accuracy for fitting the ball in tight spaces.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Pryor deep middle to Sanz
Pryor hitting Sanz on slants in a confined area
Pryor hitting Sanz on slants again, different coverage
Pryor throwing an NFL TD
Another NFL throw for a TD
Pryor throwing over the middle into a relatively tight space
Again, same “drive” concept
I don’t even know what you are saying Pryor can’t do at this point. Fit the ball in to tight spaces? Throw in the middle of the field? Fit the ball in to tight spaces in the middle of the field?
There are some clips of him doing all of that.
OSU isn’t throwing the deep post in the middle of the field much anymore for a few reasons.
Defenses need to commit people to stop Pryor’s legs. They bring one safety down in the box so we are seeing a lot of MOFC, 1 high coverage and the deep space is to the outside.
Also, we often spread the field to employ a horizontal, ball-control passing game. We simply aren’t as vertical as we were under Troy Smith. Posey is maybe as good of a deep threat as one of Holmes, Ginn, and Gonzo, but our personnel and philosophy are undoubtedly different.
The offense goes through Pryor now. If he was inept at throwing the ball anywhere short with good accuracy, we’d be a very bad offensive team.
rufio - October 20, 2010
I am not trying to BS you here. Your larger point stands, which is that Pryor and Smith are very different players.
rufio - October 20, 2010
That is my larger point. Maybe its just the eye-test bias that I have with Pryor, his motion is not as smooth to me and there often lacks the pretty spiral.
Again, this is premature, assuming Pryor comes back next year.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
It’s not just the eye test. Even just taking into account the difference in their running abilities, defenses will defend them much differently. Or would if Troy was still in the NCAA.
rufio - October 21, 2010
Catching a football and having “great hands” is really a critically underappreciated part of being an NFL receiver. It is very rare that I see a WR with bad hands develop into a great hands guy. Braylon struggles with catching the ball. Always has – and my theory is he always will. If you don´t look critically at that aspect of his game – he is an overall #3 selection. If you put the proper weight to it, you feel like you got a great deal to get Stuckey and a second rounder. (it was unfortunate the pick did not work out but sort of a seperate issue)
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
This only makes sense as a mid to late pick, which he probably won’t be. He will probably go fairly high as a QB, especially if he stays as a senior and doesn’t lay an egg
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010 via mobile
The “I know Dorn will probably disagree” was more of a joke anyway. I do sincerely believe it would help our offense immensely.
rufio - October 18, 2010
haha, cool. We still have a long way to go, but I actually have some faith in our GM now.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
As long as he’s a team player and has his mind right, I think a legit #1 WR is arguably our biggest need right now.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
I think our first round pick will be a WR.
Is Michael Floyd from ND an early 2nd round pick or a late first?
emily522 - October 18, 2010
TRSS says he’s #1 overall…
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
I think, especially since he has major injury problems and some questions about his top end speed, he may go later in the first (probably between 15-25).
for me, its AJ green or bust in the first (or grab Johnothan Baldwin in the 2nd if he is there)
bross09 - October 18, 2010
One thing you can say about Green is that he was the number 1 receiver at Georgia as a true frosh with an NFL receiver on the roster, and an NFL QB.
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
Well if you look at the teams that added good, proven receiving talent in our division, it hasn’t hurt them. I mean who saw Flacco being as effective as he is a few years ago? Giving him someone to throw too that knows how to get open and catch has been key to this. I can’t see why people think our QBs should perform like Drew Breese when they have nothing but #3-#4 receivers to catch it. Not adding some talent on receiver this year with all the talent that changed teams was confusing to me and the lack of it really shows on the team.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
Well, if you add good, proven talent at any position it’s certainly going to help you.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
The point of the post is getting the talent WHEN it is available. If you wait for this or that piece to be in place before you pull the trigger, the talent in the position you need may not be available to you. That is why I think the Browns should have got one of the receivers that moved around this year. I can’t remember a time when so many top receivers moved in a single year.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
Unfortunately Mangini will never bring in a Marshall or VJax. Unlike elite coaches who can manage varied personalities, Mangini needs to have players who fit his mold. Not a knock on Mangini, but its just a sign that he will never be a top tier manager.
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010 via mobile
This really isn’t Mangini’s decision any longer. His input is taken I’m sure, but Heckert controls this now. If someone is available I’m sure Heckert looked into it.
Kimble_79 - October 19, 2010
This is also true. He’s no longer a sit – in GM, he’s a head coach and he’s being paid to coach, not sign players.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Cue someone — golan perhaps? — to argue the finer points of Mangini’s input.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
Not really any fine points to discuss. Mangini has input, but Tom Heckert controls the roster. At this point, the only player we know Mangini lobbied for is Peyton Hillis. He had been after him for a couple of years.
It’s also worth noting that the Pats were in talks with the Chargers to acquire VJax as a replacement for Moss until Robert Kraft caught wind of his off field problems. Kraft over ruled the FO, and they went after Branch instead. Jackson’s off field issues are for real, especially considering the metric shit ton of grief the Jets got over Braylon’s DUI.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
Also, for some reason, the Chargers just breed character ridden players.
See; Rivers, Cromartie, Merriman, Jackson, and more recently Seau.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I don’t know what “character ridden” means, but I see 5 all-pros with elite talent there. We’d have been lucky to have any of them in their primes.
Also grouping substance abuse problems with on the field temper problems with domestic problems seems a little obtuse, no?
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
No, it doesn’t. And character ridden was obviously the wrong term but you got the idea.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I honestly don’t. I don’t think a football organization should put those issues in the same category. Yelling a fans and teammates has nothing to do with taking banned substance to give you a competitive edge. And neither of those things has anything to do with beating your wife or driving drunk. I don’t know what Cromartie did.
Over generalizing “character issues” is a huge problem for the media and a lot of fans. But I would hope teams could be a little more nuanced in their evaluations of players.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
I like Mangini because of that. He ensures that there would be no worry of a cancer and understands that those types can break the control at any moment. Not to mention they’d be shitty mentors and leaders who would only play the “Me” game rather than the “team” game.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I like that too… to a point.
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010
I think Holmgren can convince Mangini that there is a difference between coming in and getting rid of all the deep-rooted bad behavior that has been tolerated for some time by a franchise and taking a few shots on guys once you’ve already “cleaned house”.
rufio - October 19, 2010
see: moss, randy, NE receiver 2007-10
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
Exactly. And it was a smart move. They got him for a 4th rounder. Huge reward potential, not very much risk (even less risk because the Pats probably had 89999233 draft picks that year).
rufio - October 19, 2010
Winner. If someone with a lot of talent is available at little investment you take them. If off the field stuff effects their football worth too much, you dump them, nothing signficant lost.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
There are times when all of our QBs have missed open receivers. Keep in mind that in the NFL you need to “throw people open” as opposed to college when they are already open. For a plethora of reasons, our QBs are not doing this on a consistent basis.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Of course we could. Who couldn’t?
jaws. - October 18, 2010
I missed the entire game but from the reactions it sounds as if we could really have turned the corner.
And as another who has previously said we could use some impact palyers in the front 7, seeing what Ryan is doing with our D makes me think WR could now be our priority (until this point I’ve always thought great WRs are somewhat wasted without a decent QB).
LondonBrown - October 18, 2010
We kept it very close but our offense couldn’t consistently move the ball and it seemed to me that the steelers “breaking” our defense (after more and more “bending” as the game went on) was only a matter of time.
At the end of the game, our defense didn’t have any plays left in them and the steelers broke away.
rufio - October 18, 2010
and chansi stuckey blew it…
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
seriously, what were our chances of winning that game at that point anyways?
bross09 - October 18, 2010
it was more to the point of the steelers breaking away than us winning the game. if stuckey doesn’t boot that play we don’t lose by 18.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
thats true. we don’t lose by 18 but lose by 11. he took the game from having maybe a 5% chance at us winning to it having a .00001% chance of us winning.
He blew that play, but I do not consider him a ‘goat’ for the game.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Also a huge backbreaker. If we are going to turn a corner in the W-L column, we need to be getting/making those kinds of breaks for ourselves, not giving them to the other team.
rufio - October 18, 2010
The refs did not help either. We lost 35 yards on dirty, flagrant fouls by Harrision. In addition, the dirty hit on Cribbs is what put Stuckey back there anyway.
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
A day later I’m back to wishing for a beast in the front 7.
Heh.
LondonBrown - October 19, 2010
Well I think you were right that we are going to need a consistent pass rusher for our defense to stop giving up so many big plays. We’ve lost almost every game to a big play and our offense isn’t built for shootouts. Even with better cover corners, very few can cover long enough to make up for blitzes that never get to the QB
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010 via mobile
A positive post about Mangini. Now THAT warms my heart for the rest of the season. We’ve seen the sheriff act before, and maybe McCoy will be different this time. But we have not seen this type of consistent team effort and performance since the early 90s. We have no idea what McCoy will bring next Sunday but we know the Browns will be competitive and be within reasonable striking distance with 6 minutes left in the game.
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
I’ve been a browns fan my whole life, and I feel like we do this everytime a new QB starts. Remember DA? or Quinn? We all thought they were the QB of the future too. Now if McCoy lead a crazy comeback and we won thats one thing, but this time, I need more then one mediocre start before I jump on the bandwagon. No, he didn’t suck, which is a step in the right direction for the whole franchise, but lets not get carried away.
iwearmocs - October 18, 2010
Before the game I had hoped for a decent showing from Colt without a victory. Win would have heaped too many expectation and adulation on the kid. What I saw is pretty much in line with what I hoped for.
Am I mortgaging the farm on this kid? No, but he has the best pedigree of anyone we have had playing QB since Vinny and Bernie – someone who has played and won on the national college stage. (BQ never won the big one, even if the defense failed him, i.e., he never WON).
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
No one here is calling him “the one”. At least I don’t think so yet, but we can all hope.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
Exactly.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
This post has some truth. We think they are good until they suck and then we want them gone. That entire process can take one game. I will say this though… he looked way better in this game against a top defense than any of our QBs have looked so far this year against any team we have played. That is good enough for me to give him the start for the rest of the year.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
I think there is no reason not to start him the rest of the year at this point. “redshirt” plans like this get skrewed up all the time in the NFL ( i mean the guy in front of bradford went down in the preseason) Colt looks like he just might be up to the task of “learning on the job” from here on out. He wouldn’t be the first (Stafford, Flacco, Ryan, Sanchez, Peyton Manning, Sam Bradford)
A rookie quarterback needs the same things every other QB does to succeed: Protection and some running game. Luckily for us we have the great Joe Thomas protecting colt’s blind side, which should minimize the injury risk. (unlike the Lions who refuse to draft over jeff backus and keep wondering why stafford misses 6 games a year.)
jaws. - October 18, 2010
Yes, exactly.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
completely agreed. there is every reason to be optimistic about his potential given the circumstances into which he was dropped, but we need more than just one game to get too aroused.
that said, is there any reason not to start this guy for the rest of the season? i mean, we ain’t challenging for the playoffs…
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
This is exactly where I stand at the moment as well.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Rec. It’s amazing how quick browns fans can jump on the bandwagon for players so quickly. It’s like a never ending cycle of Suggs, Quinns and Wrights. How about we let these players earn their praise before the fellating begins
The Licensed Pessimist - October 18, 2010
what no Spergon Wynn!!!?
sleepy042 - October 18, 2010
My new least favorite word after Steeler week is fellating. Saw that one get thrown around a lot.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
I think I may have started that one, though I haven’t used it since.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Your use of the word was appropriate at least.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Agreed.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I never thought Anderson was anything more than the new Mike Phipps waiting for the next Brian Sipe to come along. I never thought Brady Quinn was the next Brian Sipe. His national press/media presence, largely due to good PR by Charlie Weiss, caused his potential to be exaggerated. But, as we all saw in the draft, GMs and Directors of Player Personnel were not fooled. Well, most of them weren’t.
JamesPowell - October 18, 2010
It depends on your context right? His start would be termed mediocre maybe by the stats, but his debut would get rated higher when compared with most rookie debuts like Bradford, Claussen, Sanchez, Hall etc. It then gets even more luster if you factor in the defense, the stadium, and the fact that he was not prepped to play during training camp. I give the performance 4 outta 5 stars if you consider those factors.
However, I agree wholeheartedly with your point it is too early to annoint Colt “the future”. I do think he showed enough to get ample starts this year to see what we have. If he could demonstrate that he is a future starting QB – it would be huge not to draft a QB in the top 5 picks. The mistake we have to stop is thinking we have a QB when we don´t. We passed on Big Ben because we had 2 QBs in Couch Holcomb. We passed on Sanchez because we had DA and BQ. The old adage is true, when you think you have to QBs – you have none. I am strongly behind selecting a QB early, even if you risk a bust.
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
Another great thing – if the misery of others will help… At least we are not Cowboys fans. I’m much happier cheering for a one-win team of overachievers than a one-win team of underachievers.
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
I second that.
LondonBrown - October 18, 2010
Yup.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
I wonder if LeBron is rooting for the 3-2 Dolphins now…
emily522 - October 18, 2010
yeah, he took his fanhood to South Beach.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
I told all of you a while back that the kis can play. I’ve watched him since high school and he impressed me then. Then of course at UT (not all brownies are OSU fans), everyone has seen what he can do. Yes, maybe its time to get a few WR’s with lots of potential, but please no more Northcutts……..
J. W. - October 18, 2010
Good article Bernie.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Thanks
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Well done Bernie. As mentioned baby steps. I hope for some more positive steps this week. What a start, Steelers on the road now the defending champs on the road.
Grockcubs - October 18, 2010
I’d recommend AJ Green to be the WR we need…
sleepy042 - October 18, 2010
I’d float a 3rd rounder or Eric Wright to the Cowboys for Roy Williams or to the Bills for Lee Evans now and then take a wideout in the second round again next year.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
I don’t want to steal your thunder here, but what about Eric Wright to the Texans doesn’t make sense? They desperately need someone in the secondary and I think we could nab a 3rd for him at this point. (Normally would think a 2nd, but we are talking about only 10 games left on his deal.)
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
If we can get a third out of Wright, I’m all for it.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
absolutely. anyone we’d draft in the 3rd has a high probability of being more productive than wright has been this year, or more importantly, will be in the future.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
I think you’re both a little optimistic about what we can get for Wright.
BuenosAires_Dawg - October 18, 2010
Quite possible. By the way did you start Torain in fantasy?
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
I think with our reputation as a poorly run franchise who wastes talented players, a three (or a Roy Williams) isn’t out of the question.
We got Peyton Hillis and a pick for Brady Quinn. Anything is possible.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Eric Wright for Andre Johnson? Makes a lot of sense . . . (Sort of like Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol.)
TheDriveStillHurts - October 18, 2010 via mobile
Did you miss that part of the comment?
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Jokes, buddy. Jokes.
Chemo - October 18, 2010
and take Peterson/Amukamara (sp) in the first?
bross09 - October 18, 2010
well it would be nice but we would be ignoring some glaring needs in the front 7. I mean our DEs are geriatric and our Linebackers all run like they were chained to a concrete block.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
The way E-Wright and Sheldon are playing, why not?
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Why would the cowboys do that? Plus who’s going to play corner for us?
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010 via mobile
I don’t think it’s beyond reason to think we could pry a number three receiver away from a 1-5 team.
Who is going to play corner for us next year? Not Wright. We should get what we can while we can.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
We’d have Adams in as the third and probably pick up someone like Poteat again off of his couch.
Desperate teams make desperate moves. The Cowboys are in “Oh sh*t” mode.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Normally I would say sure, a 3 for him would work, but its a player Jerry Jones likes for some reason and I think he gave up a #1 for him last year. He’s also playing a lot better. I would love to get him so if they would do it, it would be great, just don’t see it. Of course at this point it would probably be worth giving up a 2 for a seasoned, good receiver.
About the CBs – who is going to play corner for us for the rest of this year? Just Haden and Brown? We don’t even have a real FS either.
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010
That’s my question, too: Why would we move a DB when we are already so shaky in the secondary? Wright isn’t even close to our worse DB and if we send him away, we’ll just be left chasing a player to replace him.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
but that only matters for this season. Wright will not be back next year, so why not get something for him? sure, the team will be worse for it this season, but we don’t care about this season.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2010
Is it definitive that Eric Wright is gone after the season? If so, I still think it a shame because, like I said, we’ll just be chasing his replacement, but I will concede it would make the case for dealing him much stronger.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
Wright will be asking for money far above his performance level and also, it seems that he’s never really cared to be a Brown and really wants to be a Cowboy.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Okay, but will anyone give it to him?
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
Jerry Jones is not afraid to over pay someone a ridiculous amount for shitty play.
Also, anyone desperate for a secondary will pay him hoping this season was a fluke.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Jerry Jones also has a few good corners already.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Nothing wrong with adding more “talent” when you have the money. If they keep sliding they will be making problems where there are none.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Provided there is football next year, my guess is the cap is back on. Everyone has money. Except Jacksonville.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Dallas always has ways of beating that though.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
beating the cap? isn’t that impossible?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
…You know exactly what I mean. Dallas has an edge in front of everyone else, sans Redskins, of creating the best team money can buy even with a cap.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
i honestly don’t know what you mean. you’re talking about players wanting to play there and taking less money than elsewhere?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
I have no idea what you mean. Neither Dallas, nor Washington have anything near the best team money can buy. And they have for the last 15 years, longer in the case of Washington.
They’ve overpaid some vets in Washington. And they both have owners that are probably way too involved in football decisions.
Plus, there is only 53 roster spots. Nobody is hording players in this system.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
the NFL’s salary cap is not nearly as “hard” as most people think.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2010
not if the owners get their way.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
It is still the “hardest” cap in the big 3. yes, people can find ways to manipulate it a bit, but it is much harder to do this in football than in basketball or baseball (where all you need for manipulation is a shit ton of money and there really is no cap anyways). This is why I like football. I still believe it produces the fairest competition.
(warning, dangerously close to politics) people find a way to manipulate laws in this country wen passed. hell, I thought blue ray was supposed to be impossible to burn but people have found ways to do it. there will always be a way to manipulate the system or rules in place if you try hard enough.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
it’s the only hard cap in the big three. The NBA has a soft cap on purpose, and MLB doesn’t have a cap at all.
the only other major sport with a cap, the NHL, is the only sport with a truly hard cap.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2010
yes. this is true. I thought the NHL though was a soft cap…
Even with hard caps, someone can find a way to manipulate the system. its just much harder to do.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
The same ways as everyone else. This isn’t baseball, Jones’ deep pockets don’t matter as much they would there. Lerner is a billionaire too.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Anyone have salary figures for the past? I know future numbers are hard to calculate because so much money isn’t guaranteed, but I’d think payroll figures should be available for the last several years.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2008
There is probably something more accurate or complete out there, but this is what 30 seconds of googling brought me.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Haha… look at 2009. Kinda kills your Jerry Jones theory, SpecialB, no? Wow.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Chicago will be boned too.
North Coast Flea - October 19, 2010
Guess what? Minus Wright and we are desperate for a CB.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
That’s right.
Western Reserve - October 20, 2010
And we are in the same boat with Wright.
North Coast Flea - October 20, 2010
Wright > Guy off street.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
Yeah lats year and the year before, but this year it’s debatable.
North Coast Flea - October 20, 2010
I don’t know, not that I doubt our other corners. But I wonder how well they would do lined up in Wright’s position the entire game. He’s definitely giving up big plays, but I wonder how many he’s not giving up. After that Baltimore game, I would imagine that every team is looking to get loose on his side. Is he giving up the big plays now because teams are testing him more? And consequently putting less pressure on our other DBs? I don’t know. I do however think he was poor all around on the Ward td.
Villeslgr - October 20, 2010
What’s the overused saying? “The rumors of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.” Or somethign like that.
Anyway, I don’t think he has forgotten to play football. He was damn good for most of the last 3 years. Maybe its effort or focus, but even now, he has talents that we need on this football team.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
-Mark Twain
bross09 - October 20, 2010
Hmm, I heard it was “Rumors of my death were greatly exaggerated.”
North Coast Flea - October 21, 2010
I think you’ve got the right one.
notthatnoise - October 21, 2010
the one I had was an exact quote while yours is the more common one. Its kind of like how leo Durocher never said exactly Nice Guys finish last, but his quote came to mean that.
bross09 - October 21, 2010
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
I thought.
Villeslgr - October 21, 2010
that was the quote as it is in current culture. however, the one I posted was the original quote by mark twain.
Like I said, oftentimes quotes change slightly in their wording to fit the language of the day and to sound snappier.
bross09 - October 21, 2010
Hyperbole. There are maybe 2 CBs in the league who can stand up all game in man-0 against the other team’s best CB. Wright is asked to do so a lot.
Other times when he’s been “burned” there should have been safety help.
He’s gotten beat this year but it isn’t like he is garbage.
rufio - October 21, 2010
Thanks for adding some perspective. Wright’s play has been frustrating, but there seems to have been a lot of overreaction as to the type of player he is.
Western Reserve - October 21, 2010
This is about how I feel.
The thing that worries me the most is that he seemingly has regressed, not progressed this year. Doesn’t mean he is replaceable by some guy off the street, just that he isn’t worth Nnamdi money. If he walks we need someone to replace him.
rufio - October 22, 2010
The Falcons gave Dunta Robinson $57 million.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
What about Oakland? Al Davis seems like he’s a little off his rocker… And Wright seems pretty speedy, and they really like that over in Oakland…
shep615 - October 19, 2010
This is the thing, after this year I am not sure how much people will pay Wright.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Although there is always Al Davis. Wright does run under a 4.40
rufio - October 19, 2010
Oh nice. I just posted something similar to this and THEN I saw what you wrote. That’s embarrassing :p
shep615 - October 19, 2010
Well I had to double post on my own comment so I think I am the bigger jackass here.
rufio - October 19, 2010
How realistically are we playing chicken with the cash of the likes of Jones and Davis that we should deal away a player at a position of obvious need?
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
I don’t even think cash is an issue. I just think he hates being in cleveland.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2010
I think my favorite McCoy pass yesterday was an incompletion. The ball he threw down the middle, through 3 defenders was a thing of beauty; the receiver (I think it was Watson) just didn’t catch it. He put that ball right on the money, where none of the defenders could have gotten it but his guy could. plus, it was a damn gutsy throw to go at 3 defenders and have the confidence that he’d put it right where it needed to be.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
McCoy is the FIRST QB where I stopped cringing everytime the ball went off the screen.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Yes. Best throw of the day, for sure.
And I nominate the TD pass for best play of the game. He felt the pressure, stepped up in the pocket, felt the pressure again, stepped out of the pocket, kept his eyes down field the entire time and threw a strike. It’s been a long time since we’ve had anyone who could do that and not have it look like a Chinese fire drill.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
The thing I really liked about that play is that McCoy never forgot where he was on the field.
When the defender rushed forward, he pulled up and flipped the ball right over him. He forced the defense to react to him and made them pay.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
that was a big league play. the guy earned himself a lot more time in this “redshirt” year, if you ask me.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
“Chinese fire drill” – what a perfect description!
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
I was watching the WRs all day, and in their defense 2 were injured, but the Brown´s QBs really have to throw into tight windows. Evan Moore is competitive, has hands, but his receptions had to be absolute perfect throws. I think WR is prolly close to the number 1 need of the club. I think Eric now has no choice but to start Colt for the rest of the year to see if we need a QB in next year´s draft or not. I actually think Colt´s accuracy prolly make him the best QB for the club anyway. Jake´s judgement is not off the charts, Seneca is a real nice backup QB – but prolly not the long term answer. Not exactly what Holmgren wanted – but ni modo.
realmccoy - October 18, 2010
This was a good throw. If we ever had a stable receiving corps/QB situation, this is the kind of throw that will be completed because of chemistry: how hard does the receiver need to break out of that route? Will the ball be thrown to a different area based on the defenders and their proximity to the receiver? etc. This is the kind of “NFL throw” that a Browns QB needs to be able to make.
rufio - October 18, 2010
i’d also like to nominate the throw to evan moore on the right sideline as mccoy was rolling right on one of the final couple of drives for throw of the day. that was a big time throw, on the move, to the only possible place a brown could make the catch, like 25 yards downfield, in our territory when we had to move the chains. real deal throw there.
and kudos to moore for effectively executing the post up.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
We should run 10 more plays per game with Moore on the field.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Amen
9James - October 18, 2010
Agreed. I have to assume his blocking is just that bad that he can’t stay on the field for more running games/plays where he may have to stay in for pass protection.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
Who cares, line him up wide and have him block safeties and/or CBs. If he can’t at least get in a DB’s way, I would be very surprised.
It isn’t like we have any healthy WRs right now, what do we have to lose?
rufio - October 19, 2010
I’m actually hoping to see Moore line up wide against the Saints and Carlton Mitchell active and running deep routes on a limited basis.
Question: We all know that Mitchell looked pretty bad in the preseason. Is there any benefit to putting him on the field as a decoy? He’s the only receiver we’ve got with the size and speed of a legit #1. Would his presence on the field, even if he can’t catch the ball or run a precise route, open things up underneath?
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
If I am a defense I am daring McCoy to throw to him deep until they make a play. Especially if I have Drew Brees sitting on the sideline to make up for it if we get burned.
I think we’d see Mitchell mostly 1-on-1 until he proved he could make a play.
rufio - October 19, 2010
If he can get off the line, I’d kind of like to see him 1-on-1 against one of the Saints DBs. As bad as Mitchell has looked, I think he’d have a better than average shot at winning that matchup.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
I think the hardest part would be completing the catch. I doubt we see this, though.
At this point—especially with Mass and Cribbs potentially out—I’d love to see us try any and everything.
rufio - October 19, 2010
They could get him involved in the offense in other ways. I remember several of those reverses from the pre-season. The Browns need to get some speed on the field if Cribbs and Massaquoi are out.
I also agree with more Moore out wide.
Monsters of the Midway - October 19, 2010
Nothing. You are right. And I’d expect him to play more if Cribbs/Massaquoi miss significant time.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
+3
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Moore is our best WR
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010 via mobile
and it’s not close. even w/ everyone healthy.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
McCoy’s pass down the side line while scrambling to Evan Moore was a thing of percision beauty. If it was wallace the ball would have been thrown 20 yards out of bounds and if it was Jake the ball probably would have been picked off or uncatchable. I was impressed with McCoy’s confidence also. The TD to watson was also nice, scrambling out of the pocket to draw watson’s defender which left him wide open for a TD, it may not have been planned that way but I like it anyways.
I though it was nice too that Bradshaw gave props to our Defense and said that they shouldn’t be overlooked when teams play cleveland(He said this when talking about New England’s Schedule)
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
I was extremely impressed with McCoy’s ability to feel the pressure. He needed a drive to get it under his belt but when he stepped up and got out of the pocket, I thought they were all extremely smart decisions. McCoy’s stats may not look the best but the kid was playing smart football, which is honestly something we haven’t seen since we’ve come back.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
I was also impressed that he didn’t collapse after the INT on the first drive. He kept throwing intermediate throws, not check downs and 5 yard passes like Quinn would have.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
This is one of the questions Colt will have to answer now and in the future when more tape is compiled on him; can he throw deep and intermediate at an NFL level?
rufio - October 18, 2010
I think 6 of his throws went for 20+ yards, 1 went for 19. And one of the 20+ was a 34, right?
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Do you have the YAC for those?
His YPA is pretty good, but as I said the book hasn’t been written on him yet. If he can take what the defense gives him even when they dare him to throw deep, that will be impressive.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I dunno where you can find YAC. I did find videos of the 28 and 34 yarders to moore and they had no YAC. I also remember one from Watson with marginal YAC. however, the hillis and stuckey 20+ throws definitely relied on YAC.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Good job, bross. I was about to say I thought some of the longer throws were no YAC, but I wasn’t positive.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Still reserving judgment. If i am a defense I am trying to make him throw deep/intermediate balls until he proves he can do it for an entire game.
rufio - October 18, 2010
agreed. Ds will be doing what they did to seneca with him until he can prove otherwise with consistency.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I know its not exactly what you where looking for but the best i can find is Wallace’s so far TY. For comparison’s sake. McCoy doesnt have enough pass att’s to be included yet.
Avg Pass Length: 7.94 yds (tied 23rd)
Avg Pass Length for a Completion: 5.0 yds (tied 28th)
Avg YAC: 6.0 yds (5th yeah i was suprised too)
sleepy042 - October 18, 2010
not surprised it was a lot of YAC. a lot of his passes seemed to go to hillis out of the backfield or a TE uncovered in the flat.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
something like that. There were at least 5 that went for 20+ I know that.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
But from what we’ve seen thus far, I’m very impressed. We don’t see a huge degradation in accuracy (especially compared to Wallace or Delhomme) when the throws start approaching 20-30+ yards.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
We also haven’t seen him throw a whole lot of deep balls. Not saying he can’t, just saying he will need to answer that question when the time comes.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I’ll agree not “a lot” but it was decent if 20+ is considered deep.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
20 is deep enough to keep defenses honest.
rufio - October 18, 2010
its deep but not over the top. We haven’t really seen him go over the top and hit a guy streaking down field. That might not be McCoy’s best quality but he will have to do it once and a while.
Granted, one reason why we probably won’t see him hit over the top streak routes this year is because we have zero deep threats.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
and b/c he has 33 career pass attempts…
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
It is deep enough. If he can hit a glance, comeback, and other throws in that range, it will do enough to open the underneath stuff.
rufio - October 18, 2010
It’s still the best performance we’ve gotten from a QB this year, if I may point that out. I looked at the stats last night… Besides McCoy, our best game from a QB was from Seneca Wallace. Colt McCoy threw for about 60 more yards than Wallace did in that game. I’m not sure how this affects the stat comparison, but McCoy threw 1 more INT than Wallace did in that game. But he also ran for (I think) about 10-15 more yards than Wallace.
It blows my mind that Colt McCoy did all this against the STEELERS. That really is exciting to me.
shep615 - October 18, 2010
are you talking about the KC game? if so, I think colt was better because
a) higher comp %
b) stretched the field more
c) his 2 INTs were not as bad of plays (combined) and didn’t hurt us as much as wallace’s terrible INT that ended in a pick 6.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Agreed. I wasn’t able to watch the KC game… Did Colt look more comfortable than Wallace did? I don’t know how Wallace looked, but I do know that Colt looked pretty damn comfortable. I think that could potentially be another reason Colt was better.
I’m pretty sure it was the KC game. I didn’t think they were as bad of plays either- I almost said that the first one wasn’t his fault because Watson should have caught the ball, but I know it’s already been discussed that there was another throw that should’ve been picked off but was dropped. Which is fair, I think.
I do agree, though- Neither of Colt’s INT’s were as bad as Wallace’s, and I don’t think they really changed the complexion of the game all that much.
shep615 - October 18, 2010
Agree on all the above. Colt seems to have a calmness in the game that I haven’t seen in any of our other QB’s as of late. I’m not calling him the man yet, but early signs are good.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Colt benefits from being underestimated his whole life. It could be the Steelers were really expecting a game plan with more Wildcat runs than passes. The Saints will be preparing for a Colt that will throw the ball. I think that game will be more insight into his long term capabilities.
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
Wallace consistently reacts late when making his reads. He hits the back foot, the ball should be thrown in rhythm, it isn’t, and by the time it is the receiver isn’t open anymore.
At least that’s what I was seeing a lot of from him. On shorter routes that you can watch on TV like hooks, slants, shallow outs, shallow crosses, etc. the WR should be turning his head out of his break and seeing the QB making the throw.
The QB cannot wait until the WR comes out of his break to begin the throw, that’s too late.
So in that regard, Seneca looked uncomfortable to me.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Agree here also. Seemed like he likes to hit that back foot, then hitch up quite often instead of releasing the ball at that moment.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I thought he looked better. Seneca was somewhat comfortable, but also was playing the dink and dunk game, didn’t throw for a high comp %, and hat a terrible pick. granted, no pick is good, but i don’t think any of colt’s led to points.
Wallace had some other nice games where he threw for above a 60% comp %, but in none of these did he throw for more than 184 yards and hovered around 10 yards per completion (pennington esque) where McCoy had over 12 (which is above league average).
I would say that so far, if you disregard sample size, he has been our best QB
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Did anyone else feel that it was tasteless for the stealers to score another TD in garbage time instead of just trying to run the clock out.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
I did. It certainly wasn’t egregious, it wasn’t nearly as rotten as the helmet to helmet hits, but it adds to the overall classlessness of the Steelers whole team.
but as someone said yesterday, we’d have probably done the same thing in that situation, as would most of the other teams in the NFL.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
There should have deffinately been a penalty on Harrison and a fine for the hit on MoMass, The hit on Cribbs is debatable seeing as he wasn’t completely defenseless.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
Now that I’ve had a chance to watch iboth hits again and I’m not as pissed off about the game I’m not sure I’d even throw a flag on the Cribbs hit. Even if it is a penalty I don’t think that one was in any way intentional.
However, the Mo Mass hit was about as blatant as they come. How no flag was thrown on that one is beyond me.
But since it’s the Steelers who are a popular frontrunner type team there will be no fine or suspension. Until the Browns and not only good but have a fanbase outside of Ohio and are a “popular” team like NE, Cowboys, Steelers, etc… teams like Baltimore and Pittspuke are going to be allowed to do stuff like that to us while guys from unpopular teams will get made an example of (see… TJ Ward). As much as I wanted to see us retaliate I’m kinda glad we didn’t because the refs always get the second guy. If say, Joe Thomas would have pushed Harrison after the Mo Mass hit he would have gotten ejected, fined, suspended, etc….
mgtbfb - October 18, 2010
If I was Joe I would have PANCAKED Harrison and if I didn’t get thrown out for it I would have PANCAKED him until I did.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
I really don’t think that the NFL levies fines based on how popular the team is. That’s kind of a ridiculous claim. Players from the Steelers and Cowboys get in trouble and get fined just as much as players from the Browns, Lions, Bills and other bad teams.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Still, to penalize Ward’s hit and not any of the hits we saw on Sunday is far too inconsistent for my taste.
rufio - October 18, 2010
agreed
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
But that’s on the individual referees, not the league. Referees are humans and make errors or have differences in judgements just like everyone else. That doesn’t mean there is a league-wide conspiracy agains the Browns. I’m so sick of hearing stuff like that — I expect that at cleveland.com, not here. We need to stop complaining that the NFL and the refs and the announcers and everyone else is out to get the Browns.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
No one said this.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
The idea that there is a league-wide conspiracy in favor of teams other than the Browns — which was said — is equally as ridiculous.
Chemo - October 18, 2010
Point me to it, I missed that.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
This is false. I don’t buy that at all either.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I definitely don’t agree with what’s stated in the quote. But I don’t think that is an exact translation of “league-wide conspiracy agains the Browns.”
It could be more of officials tending to favor more popular teams over less popular teams. It may not be true, but I don’t think that claim is all that ridiculous.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
No, it’s not an exact translation. My comment was simply a generalization of many different types of comments in regards to many different entities on this site over the past few weeks, so it wouldn’t be an exact translation of anything.
But there are many people here who have made comments about ESPN, or the NFL, or the refs, or the announcers, or the national media as a whole being biased against the Browns or wanting them to lose or anything like that, and that’s the kind of stuff I’m tired of hearing. That is the opposite of intelligent analysis, which is what we try to promote on this blog. As I said before, that kind of stuff belongs on cleveland.com, not here.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Ok, you’re completely entitled to your opinion.
But since you brought up your “tired of hearing” and what you “try to promote”, I think ridding these comment section of these incessant trolls should be a much high priority.
It has looked worse this past than I’d ever seen it as FTS, and it’s been bad at times over there.
Check out the game thread (second half).
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I wasn’t part of the game threads so I didn’t see that. And I really don’t feel like going back to look at a 700+ comment thread. But I warned a guy in this thread, and if I see more troll comments then I’ll take care of it.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
I warned numerous guys and banned one.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I see.
I do have a feeling the trolls will settle back down to a minimum. Probably won’t be a strong spike again until around January 2nd.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
There isn’t a conspiracy against Cleveland but I feel that TJ Ward was made an example of because he was a lower profile player on a bad team. If Ware played in Pittsburgh or NE or Dallas I don’t know if he would have been punished as severly.
I feel pretty strongly that Periela (or whatever that moron’s name is) wouldn’t have called for his head the was he did. He’s a shill and gets his orderers from above. That order was “make a stink about this Ward kid”.
I think we all can agree that officiating has been terrible this year. Whether that is a result of just too many nit picky rules for these officials to enforce, bias or just plain incompetence is up for debate.
mgtbfb - October 19, 2010
I’m not really sure how anyone made an example of Ward. He was flagged for the hit and given a fine, but that’s it. His punishment wasn’t really any different than what others have received for similar hits. And I didn’t see the media making a big deal out if; sure, they mentioned it, but not nearly as much as they’re talking about the big hits from Harrison and other this weekend (granted, that’s because there were many of them on Sunday). But I don’t really see how Ward was treated any differenlty than other players in similiar situations.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
Really? I saw stuff about Ward all over the internet and on the NFL network.
Mike Periela was all over him. It was like he had a personal animus against Ward and he wanted him suspended.
Again, I’m not saying it was because he was a Brown but because the NFL felt that he was a good opportunity for an example. Judging by the amount of questionable hits this weekend it appears that their treatment of Ward didn’t deter anyone!
mgtbfb - October 19, 2010
Sure, there was stuff about Ward’s hit just like there was plenty of stuff about Harrison’s hits this week. Peter King blasted him in his MMQB column, the biggest NFL column on the internet, and Scott Van Pelt called him dirty in his radio show on Monday.
If you think Ward was treated differently then I think it’s because you’re trying to see it that way as a Browns fan. And that’s not meant to be a criticism of you, because almost all fans do that. They pay attention to what happens to their team’s players more than others, and therefore assume that their players get treated unfairly. But there really isn’t any reason to think that’s true.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
His punishment was three times what Hines Ward received for blindsiding Daven Holly in the head after the whistle a couple years ago. His penalty was three times what James Harrison received for body slamming Vince Young head first into the turf a couple weeks ago.
Yes, they made an example of TJ Ward.
woodsmeister - October 19, 2010
Oh my gosh, that’s not even a tackle on Young; that’s a wrestling move. As you say, a body slam. Doesn’t surprise me after what we saw on Sunday and the fact that Harrison is on record saying he’s trying to hurt people.
Thanks for that link. I hadn’t seen that. That’s just egregious.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
And the NFL is also trying to crack down on hard hits now more than they had a couple years ago, so comparing this year’s fines to previous years’ fines isn’t a good comparison. Let’s wait to see what happens to Harrison this week before we make judgements.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
the harrison hit on young is bad, to be sure, but it doesn’t hit the nerve of “helmet to helmet” or the variations thereof. that’s why his fine was less than ward’s, who made the mistake of tripping the “hit to helmet” alarm.
can i call for a one-time, completely non-random drug test of j. harrison, by the way?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
Prediction: James Harrison is on roids.
rufio - October 19, 2010
A truly bold prediction.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
Been saying it for years now.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2010
I believe it. They guy stepped up huge as he was getting older. Something is amidst for sure.
Kimble_79 - October 19, 2010
Pittsburgh seems to always “find” these OLB pass rushers (Harrison, Haggans, Porter, etc.). Amazing what a little “coaching ’em up” can do huh?
Just sayin’.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
The Media flipped over what Ward did. Where as I’ve only seen a yahoo blog talk about Harrison and that’s it.
I doubt Harrison receives a fine or suspension for either hit but for some reason Ward gets fined 15g’s for a hit that really wasn’t nearly as bad as both of Harrison’s?
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Well, then haven’t looked very hard. Peter King, who writes the most widely read NFL column on the internet, ripped Harrison in his MMQB. Golan even linked to that on the side.
See, this kind of stuff is where the subjectivity comes in. As Browns fans, we pay attention to anyone who says something about Ward and assume it’s happening more than about other players. And determining which is was worse is in the eye of the beholder. I’m not sure why you assume that Harrison isn’t getting anything for his hits because the punishments haven’t been given yet, but it’s not really fair to assume he’s not getting anything then complain about it before it’s even happened yet.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
The NFL deemed the Cribbs hit legal.
There’s just an air around all this that seems he’ll just get slapped on the wrist or possibly not even that.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
And many Browns fan on this site on Sunday said they didn’t have a problem with the Cribbs hit, either. He was tackling a ballcarrier which are different rules than hitting a defenseless receiver (such as the Ward hit and Harrison’s hit on MoMass).
And I’m not sure why you’d make that second assumption, other than the fact you’re looking for reasons to complain or to think the Browns will be treated unfairly. Harrison has been widely criticized in the media so I’m not sure where you get the idea that he’s getting off easy.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I said the Cribbs hit wasn’t necessarily dirty, but if the NFL is going to take this stance, there can be no gray areas. It was helmet to helmet regardless.
Also, I just think that the NFL gives it’s big money teams breaks. Don’t say they don’t, it’s naive to think the league is treated fairly. The NFL favors those who bring in the money, it’s a business, it’s expected.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
There is always going to be gray areas, though, when you’re dealing with plays like this. Determining the legality and severity of these hits isn’t an absolute so we can’t treat it like it is. There are always going to be judgement calls.
And the NFL certainly favors teams when deciding TV schedule and things like that, because certain teams do bring more ratings and more money, but that doesn’t mean they treat players from teams differently when determining punishments. There is no evidence of that, other than anycdotal examples based on subjective opinions of what is “fair.”
The truth is that suspending Harrison for one game isn’t going to cost the Steelers, or the NFL, one penny in lost revenue or TV ratings. The thing about football is that many players, even the really good ones, and nameless, faceless people to many fans. Steelers fans aren’t going to choose to watch a game based on whether or not James Harrison plays. There are a few star players who can draw fans — mostly QB’s, RB’s and WR’s — but not a guy like Harrison. The NFL isn’t going to avoid punishing him just because they think it might hurt the ratings for Steelers game, because that just wouldn’t happen. And it’s a fallacy to think so.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I’d say that’s a fair assessment. I’m still inclined to think that they think in the interest of themselves.
Then the NFL shouldn’t try to take a “no gray area” stance. If judgment is such a problem, use instant replay to see the legality of the hit, it opens a Pandora’s Box to reviewable penalties but it’s a step. There should be no gray areas to this, there can’t be if this is the stance they wish to take. Either all vicious hits are treated equally or they allow it to be a barbarian’s game. The use of instant replay solves this judgment issue though. Too bad it’ll never be put to use.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
talk about naive. the judgment of the official watching the instant replay would be about the only “authority” ruling on the matter. not all “vicious hits” are created equal.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
It still gives a better perspective on the hit than throwing a flag or ejecting a player in the moment when the hit happens. It can be broken down through slow motion replay. You can see it for what it is rather than what you expected it was when it happened in real time.
It helps.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
to what end? what’s the benefit of giving players from “big money” teams lighter fines?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
That what they do to make the money isn’t stunted by the fear of fines. That it actually creates them media because the NFL took a stance against the popular view. That if there is a strike rule, a lesser fine given at an earlier time with directly affect a fine or suspension farther down the road.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
wouldn’t that apply to all teams, though?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
No, that’s why I said it. As a business, you’d focus on what brings you money. The big money teams have a big fan following, why would you waste such resources on teams that don’t get as much exposure? It doesn’t make sense.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
i just want to get this straight: you don’t fine players for “big money” teams as much for, say, a helmet to helmet hit b/c you think that doing so would deter the “big money” team player from engaging in helmet to helmet hits anymore, and that’s what fans want to see (helmet to helmet hits), so you’d be losing money as a league b/c the fans wouldn’t watch as much w/o helmet to helmet hits?
wouldn’t it stand to reason that the “big money” teams have pretty entrenched fan bases, the numbers of which are likely to be unaffected (in any material sense) by fines or helmet to helmet hits? and instead of favoring them, you’d actually want to fine players from “small money” teams less so that they remain engaged in the practice of helmet to helmet hits, which is what fans want to see, so as to grow their numbers of fans?
summary: i don’t think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
I think the opposite so I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Brad the “objectivity” you are always talking about does not exist. Subjectivity is always at play.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I really have no idea what you’re talking about. In my comment about, I said that subjectivity is a part of people’s views on these situations, so I’m not sure what it is that you’re disagreeing with or correcting me about.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
harrison’s hit on momass is on the front page of cnnsi.com today (and it’s not b/c the hit was awesome!)
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
…Because of Peter King, which BB has already stated twice.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
BB referred to MMQB, which is different from the story on the site today. but thanks for playing.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
I hope BB yells at you for that, but you’re Joey so it’s okay.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
What are you talking about? You make comments like that all the time and I don’t say anything to you.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
this is not really true. most helmet to helmet hits that have occurred this year have resulted in 5k or 10k fines (and a lot of 5k_
bross09 - October 19, 2010
Is there really that much of a difference between a $10k and $15k fine to an NFL player? I don’t think so, which is why I made that comment.
I mean, if we’re really going to nitpick so much that we’re complaining about the difference between $10k and $15k to guys making 6 or 7 figures then we’re really digging deep for something to complain about.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
you have a point there. its chump change to these guys the difference.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
I read a quote somewhere from Rodney Harrison mentioning that he didn’t think fines were a deterrent.
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
That has been implied many times on here. People have said EPSN is against us, the announcers are against us, and someone above said the league was against us when it came to fining players. So, yes, this has been said or implied many times on here.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Solomon Wilcots is a peckerwood.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
If the original posters meant imply a conspiracy centered around keeping the specifically Browns down, and kicking us while were there, I’ll agree whole heartedly that it’s ridiculous.
If people were referring to a more towards a general bias in the media leaning in favor of more popular teams, I’ll actually agree.
Also, ESPN still sucks regardless of any feelings toward Cleveland. Seriously, their stuff sucks ass.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Of course the media shows more about the popular teams, because that’s what people watching care about and that’s what gives them better ratings.
But that is completely seperate from the discussion above. To insist that the NFL will give out fines to players based on how popular of a team they play on is just ridiculous. And it’s not about the Browns, specifically, but any other traditionally bad team. The NFL doesn’t give out a fine to a Bills player that they wouldn’t give to a Patriots player, for example, just because the Pats are more popular. That’s the part I called ridiculous.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
I’d prefer an overall objective sport analysis, we don’t get that with ESPN.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Right, but that’s another discussion we’ve already had.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
True, that just seemed liked where this was going.
No reason to beat another dead horse.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
The announcers and ESPN in general are for the frontrunning, popular teams. If we win for several years and get a mega star that sells jerseys we will be their darlings as well.
mgtbfb - October 19, 2010
I agree and am making a different point, not reiterating the one above.
It still sucks to see our guys penalized for things like this (remember the Corey Williams penalty against Aaron Rodgers last year?) and see some pretty vicious things unpenalized.
The football gods, karma, conspiracy, luck, whatever it is it hasn’t swung back in our favor yet.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I was under the impression he was talking about fines…which would be the league. Not the actual penalty calls, which would be referees.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I was responding to rufio’s comment, which was about the penalties.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
absolutely.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
I’m not ready to call it fact (or even close), but it’s really not all that ridiculous either.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
(on a scale of dirtiness) Harrison=Courtland Finnegan
(scale of how much fined) Harrison<<Courtland Finnegan
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Is there news on the Harrison fine? Is there one, is there none, do we know yet?
I’m haven’t heard anything yet.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Fines are usually doled out at the end of the week (Friday mostly). Might be earlier this week with the number of ridiculous hits that happened this week.
I won’t be happy with anything short of a suspension for Harrison.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Prepare to be unhappy. The Steelers are golden boys. The NFL knows where their bread is buttered.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
If the Steelers are “golden boys” then why did Ben get suspended? He wasn’t charged with any crime so they didn’t have to suspend him.
I don’t really want to start that whole discussion again about what he did or didn’t do, but let’s not pretend that the NFL won’t fine or suspend Steelers players just because they play for a popular team. There is no evidence of that.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
He got two games shaved off his suspension…
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
So, what’s your point? It was set up that way when he received the suspension, and he followed through with his good behavior so it was reduced. That doesn’t mean the league favored him in any way.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
if the NFL doesn’t suspend Ben it’s a PR nightmare. they had to suspend him, and you know it.
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
He was suspended because of the avalance of bad press. Goodell had to do something. He had no choice. Had their not been the backlash he might not have been suspended as he wasn’t convicted of anything.
Guys at Goodell’s level don’t make decisions based on morals or right and wrong. It’s all about the bottom line always. That is how the world works today unfortunately. If Ted Bundy or Osama Bin Laden were popular NFL players they would be allowed to play if it was good for the NFL’s bottom line.
mgtbfb - October 19, 2010
i understand the attempt at hyperbole … but perhaps the dumbest thing ever said on this site.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
Yeah, Osama’s knees are wrecked. No way he gets a contract.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
Ted Bundy would have to be a Charger. ZZzzaaaPP!
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
Good thing is, is that he could pull a Braylon and use his beard to catch footballs!
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
and they don’t allow Dialysis machines on the field.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
So are his kidneys.
North Coast Flea - October 19, 2010
Apparently they are considering suspensions for this week.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Probably especially because of all the media coverage the big hits received this week. I expect the NFL will not sit on their hands in what is becoming their biggest issue.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Would this even be an issue if there were not horrible hits in other games as well as this one? I tend to believe not.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
The Meriwether hit was the most egregious in my opinion.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
That one was blatantly obvious.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Agreed.
He should have been ejected.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I don’t know, I saw NBC replayed the Cribbs hit last night and singled it out. I’m not sure exactly what you are implying.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Some fans are always going to complain that their team is being treated unfairly, regardless of whether or not there is any evidence to support that belief.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
It’s the Steelers. The NFL would not come down on this if it were just the Steelers doing it, because this is what the Steelers have been doing for years. Ask Daven Holly. Ask Ed Reed. Ask Carson Palmer.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
There was nothing dirty about Carson Palmer’s injury. The Steelers lineman was just blocked in to him, I think, and rolled over on his legs.
Also, I’m sure that you can take any team in the NFL and find players that were injured by hard hitting while playing against them. It’s what happens in football.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
your memory of the palmer injury is much different than mine. i don’t think it was a roll into his knee as much as a low lunge (borderline dirty) … which combined w/ the brady injury to change a rule.
but i digress. i agree w/ your larger point that there’s no conspiracy, fine/suspension favoritism, etc. in the nfl. to me, the contention is absurd on its face.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
It wasn’t a roll, but a lunge. How is that dirty though? He was on the ground and trying to get to the QB. Once a player hits the ground are they supposed to stop playing?
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
i guess to the extent that diving at a qb’s legs is dirty, it was dirty. it’s not hard (even in the moment) to foresee the shredded knee resulting from 300+ lbs diving into a stationary knee.
but your point is taken. hard to call that too dirty since he didn’t have many options. it did contribute to a rule change, so at the least i guess we can say it was pretty dangerous.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
That’s the thing, I don’t think diving at a QB’s legs is dirty and I don’t think it is all that dangerous (in the context of football hits) and I don’t think the rule change makes any sense.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
This.
Just because it hurt a couple guys in freak injuries doesn’t make it any more ‘dangerous’ or ‘dirty’ than other hits.
I HATE how you only have about a 1-2 foot window of the torso to hit a QB
bross09 - October 18, 2010
i get frustrated with it, too, but would you disagree that it’s in the “best interest of the game”? putting starting qb’s in the best position to avoid year-ending injuries has to be a good thing for everyone involved.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
in a sense, it is in the “best interest of the game” to protect the QBs as much as possible. When I say game, I am more referring to the NFL as a whole in this sense. QBs win games and help ratings.
its a ratings league so obviously they would protect the QB and try to limit all injuries to the QBs and sacrifice overall gameplay. its so annoying to watch a guy not tackle the QB because he is worried he will hit him too high/low. this takes away from the overall quality of the product IMO.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
Coaches used to do this by not throwing it as much.
The Steve Young/Matt Millen debate tonight was interesting, as long as Millen was under control.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Steve Young needs to understand that every QB isn’t as good as he was.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2010
He can’t.
Ever seen him talk? All those concussions messed the dude up.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
He had a point though, the smarter QBs and especially the ones who have veteran WRs on their page don’t do this as much.
It used to be that if you didn’t have that kind of guy you couldn’t run a pass-first offense precisely because of the dangers it presented, one of which is injuries.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I do disagree. QBs didn’t suffer these injuries at some alarming pace. It simply was an overreaction to the Brady injury. Honestly, did any QB have a serious knee injury from that type of hit between Palmer and Brady. Since? Before?
Injuries are a part of the game. And hitting and tackling are parts of the game. Moreso than the risk of losing, at worst, a season of a star every 5 years.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
I see the NFL favoring anyone anytime it is in their financial interests, short- and/or long-term. I don’t know why we’d expect anything different.
They clearly believe that keeping the 10ish QBs that can really play healthy is in their interests. Intentionally or not they favor the teams with good QBs via the rules they implement. There are other examples of this.
rufio - October 19, 2010
THIS. I think I said somewhere else that although it might not be in the interest of the best quality product out there, it is in the best interest in the NFL to do everything they can to protect the QBs short term and long term.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
Yeah, that’s true, it is such a pass-happy league because the NFL has decided, probably rightfully so, that that is what fans want to see.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
The NFL needs to eject players for bad hits.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Someone actually posed this same idea in a fanpost. It’s definitely an interesting concept.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
From what I understand, ejections have been in the rule book for these type of hits for at least three years, but refs are reluctant to ever pull the trigger and throw a guy out.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I wasn’t even aware of this.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Me neither. I’m ok with this so long as ref’s don’t go overboard and start throwing everyone out of the game for each big hit. However, if they do it (by review of course) and eject players that are easily and visibly making illegal hits, I’m good with it.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
NFL: Helmet-to-helmet hits to spur ejections
In effect since 2007 but hardly ever used. The NFL obviously has not emphasized this to its officiating crews enough.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
No one wants to be the ref who throws out a star player and directly impacts the game like that. Especially the first ref to do so.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Sure, but as far as impacting the game, you could say that about numerous type of calls officials are asked to make. It’s really not that difficult: the NFL signs their paychecks.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I like what someone said in another thread. Hand out suspensions after the game. Then there is plenty of time for review by the league.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Hm, that’s an interesting thought, yeah.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
As a human being, that’s a hard thing to do. I don’t care how professional these guys are or who signs their checks or how objective they are supposed to be, it sucks to be that guy.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Sure, there’s definitely a human element to it — and possible feelings of guilt. If ejections became more commonplace though for the worst offenders, officials would be more confident in making those kind of calls. So, the NFL has to better incentivize that officials enforce the league’s own rules.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
It must be incredibly difficult for referees to officiate a game involving the Steelers, because their MO is to constantly step over the line and dare the referees to flag them. Whether it’s constantly being offsides defensively, or making punishing hits that border on (and cross the line) being cheap shots, they force the referees’ hands on every play. The referees then have to decide whether the game is going to be a four-hour flagfest, or if they are going to let the line keep moving and moving. It’s got to be pure screaming hell for the refs because they can’t win no matter what they do, because every time the Steelers get away with something cheap without a flag it becomes a precedent.
woodsmeister - October 19, 2010
And if you do flag them, you get hell for penalizing a potentially game changing play that was “well within the rules of play.”
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Yeah, but I bet the penalties would slow down if you sent a few guys to the dressing room.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
The league doesn’t have the cojones to crack down on the Steelers. I’ll believe it when I see it.
woodsmeister - October 19, 2010
Fair point. Can’t argue with that.
Western Reserve - October 19, 2010
But it’s not just the Steelers. The NFL hasn’t done that to players on any team (yet), so I don’t know why the Steelers are being singled out. It’s not like they’re throwing out other players but not Steelers.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
No other team and their fans revel in thuggery like the Steelers do. James Harrison is a hero to Steelers fans for hits like he put on our guys. He’s a hero to Steelers fans for pile driving Vince Young into the ground head first. This is the same James Harrison who held an opponent down on the ground and punched him in the Super Bowl and stayed in the game.
This is the same team who has a wide receiver who is lauded for having taken players out of games three separate times by cheap blindside head shots and all the NFL does is levy token fines.
If any team has a pattern of thuggish, blatantly illegal defensive behavior, it is the Steelers, and they are celebrated for it instead of reviled. Until the league cracks down not only on the players but on the franchise that encourages and celebrates such dangerous behavior, I will not believe that the NFL is interested in protecting their players.
woodsmeister - October 19, 2010
I suppose so. But throwing a flag now and then should be bearable for the sport.
JustBob - October 18, 2010
They certainly haven’t minded throwing the flags at other times this year. The officiating looks inconsistent to me.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I think the problem is that it’s difficult for a ref to make a judgement on action that occurs that fast. Especially when you’re on the field. To make ejections an effective deterrent, the refs would have to really use replay to be able to get a good view of each hit.
Villeslgr - October 18, 2010
Good point. People have watched the T.J. Ward hit and the James Harrison hits ad nauseum and there’s still little to no consensus. In a fast game where people are supposed to be hitting each other it’s difficult to determine what is illegal/dirty then and there.
Monsters of the Midway - October 19, 2010
I think it usually takes a couple days for the NFL to hand out fines.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
no news yet. however, historically, harrison has gotten away easier at time. even finnegan has when you consider what he does, but not to that scale.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Anyone can pick out two players from two different teams, compare their fines, and try to show some injustice one way or the other. With many players and many fines, there are going to be inconsistencies. Besides, one person’s opinion of which one is worse is different than other person’s. So you can’t use that as “evidence” of some NFL conspiracy.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
I am not trying to use it as evidence of an NFL conspiracy but just the fact that harrison in general tends to get of easier IMO when it comes to penalties and fines.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I think the Cribbs hit should have been penalized under the helmet-to-helmet rule which is different from the defenseless receiver rule. It penalizes a player spearing with his helmet or shoulder into a players head and neck area regardless of if he is defenseless or not. It is a 15 yard penalty and it also does not try to determine intent. It doesn’t matter if he wasn’t trying it still should have been flagged.
The Momass hit was almost the exact definition of the defenseless receiver rule being acted out and it also should have been flagged.
The flags should have been thrown in both cases and this is regardless of any debate rather they are good rules or not. To me they are good because I do not want to watch a bunch of players I don’t know running around decapitating each other like some kind of mobile, pro wrestling. If I wanted that I’d watch hockey. ;-)
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
This is exactly what I’ve been saying all along.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
I had no problem with the TD, we were only down 11.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
I agree. This is the NFL, not college football. If you don’t want a team to score then stop them. And it wasn’t like they were up 20 or 30.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
couldn’t agree more.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
Agreed. I think ever team would have tried to score a TD in that situation.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I would have taken a knee in all circumstances except what the Steelers were facing- an opportunity for some red zone practice against an opponent. Otherwise, take a knee, run out the clock, and avoid potential injury during the next 5-6 plays.
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
thats not true. We had enough time to hit a big play and get an onside kick. 11 points isn’t that much in today’s nfl. They weren’t running up the score they were just playing to win. That is called putting a team away / finishing strong etc etc.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
didn’t the bucs score 14 points in 86 seconds against the bengals a couple of weeks ago?
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
I did. I would. I would also send someone to knock Harrison out of the game in December.
BuenosAires_Dawg - October 18, 2010
Steelers being Steelers. NFL being NFL. Running up the score has always been how the Steelers roll. Their fans are not happy unless they grind the opponent into the ground and leave them bloody and humiliated. Simple victory is not enough. Plus, it covered the spread, which cannot be overlooked.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
rec for steelers being steelers.
flag for gambling conspiracy theory.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
Did the NFL ever finally force the Rooneys to lose their gambling interests? I know there was a lot of talk about it a couple of years ago, but I didn’t keep up with the story.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
In short, both yes and no – they forced the Rooney brothers who wanted to maintain close ties to the racetracks and casinos to accept buyouts of part of their shares, but those brothers still maintain minority ownership of the team. The major ownership group apparently has cut ties with the gambling operations.
Article here
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
Good stuff. Thanks.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
That play really scared me. When I saw Sheldon Brown not able to make up any ground on their TE – I was concerned. Hopefully he was just shocked with the call and gave up on the play. Not the greatest statement, but far better than other conclusions. Hook Em Browns!
realmccoy - October 18, 2010
They were breaking in a rusty quarterback coming off a four game suspension. Every snap counts in that situation.
No matter, we’re bitter rivals, and as Woody Hayes once said when asked why he went for a two point conversion when already up by 36 late in a game against Michigan, “because we couldn’t go for three”. I like it when rivals run up the score on each other. More fuel to the fire.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Would we as Browns fan be comfortable only up 11 at that point? I say go for it every time.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Yup. It’s always different when the shoe is on the other foot; sometimes fans have trouble looking at it that way. We would want the Browns to score a TD in that situation, so I don’t blame the Steelers at all.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
With no #1 or #2 WR on the other team, the best returner in football out of the game, an offense playing like we were, and a defense that was that gassed? I would have felt comfortable.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Not comfortable enough to stop playing the best football possible
9James - October 18, 2010
I would have felt comfortable running the ball down the other team’s throats.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I expect… no I insist that the Browns do the same. It is the steelers after all.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
It was our fault though for giving them great field position to score. I do agree though if we were in that position I would be rooting for a TD, I just didn’t like it against us. Oh well.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
Yes. It was worse for the steelers fans in the bar I went to to cheer obnoxiously loud as if they had just done something really impressive.
rufio - October 18, 2010
That’s how Steelers fans are in bars.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
I have very good friends that are “good Steelers fans” and I’ve run into plenty of D-bag “bad” Steelers fans". Good fans can talk a little trash with you but remain objective, regularly bathe and for the most part completed at least the 10th grade.
“Bad” Steelers fans (you can sub any frontrunner team in for Steelers) are the loud obnoxious jackasses. Worst are the guys that claim “WE kicked your ass today” I love those guys…. Yeah buddy you and I played today and you really showed me personally that you were the better man.
mgtbfb - October 19, 2010
No one is objective. Especially in a bar.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I didn’t. This is a big boy league.
You don’t want them to run it up, stop them.
If we had a chance to hang 50 on the Steelers, we damn well better take it.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I hope I’m alive when that day comes.
Monsters of the Midway - October 18, 2010
Me too.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
If I’m in their shoes, I’d want to make sure that the game was out of reach.
JustBob - October 18, 2010
Yeah, I think the complaints about that last TD are unjustified. Especially after McCoy drove the team down the field. Say the Steelers run three times and we stuff them and they punt, we drive and score a TD or even a FG. Then it’s a one score game.
mgtbfb - October 19, 2010
You should be a motivational speaker haha. Loved the post.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
So let’s have a roll call.
Who’s all on the “Start McCoy from here on out train”?
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
this guy.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
I
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Definitely – no choice. We have to find out if we need to draft a QB with that top pick or not.
realmccoy - October 18, 2010
If we stick with McCoy, what do we do with Jake?
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
3rd string. He came in knowing his job was up for grabs at any moment. He also said at the beginning of the season that Matt Moore did the same thing to him in Carolina and he would be fine with it here. He came here to mentor and he said that’s what he expected to happen IIRC.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Is he being paid a bit much to be a 3rd string QB?
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
1. It’s an uncapped year, so what.
2. He’s getting paid more by Carolina to be a 3rd string QB.
3. He was paid to be a starter but I think we’ve found something better.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Jake is a pro, and, by all accounts, a team player. If we stick with McCoy, he becomes our number 2 and a helluva good tutor.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
agreed. Assuming that Colt gets to play out the year, having Jake there to tutor him and prepare for games is invaluable. He has more to offer from that standpoint than Seneca. Consider it an investment in Colt’s and the Browns’ future. After the season they can cut Jake, keep Seneca as the #2, and bring in a FA or low round draft pick to groom as the future #2.
dawgtribe - October 19, 2010
That was after all, Jake’s job in the first place, to be a mentor, was it not?
North Coast Flea - October 19, 2010
i saw jake all over the sideline on sun., but didn’t see seneca once. would there be a reason that jake makes that trip and seneca doesn’t?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
He’s a captain.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Cut hum, hopefully. His career is over.
BuenosAires_Dawg - October 18, 2010
Who cares?
Chemo - October 18, 2010
Haha, best answer of the day.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
He might just have to accept that he is at that “mark Brunell” point of his career where he is a serviceable backup but not really the guy you want starting every week.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
I’m still on the ‘do what’s best for McCoy’ bandwagon. No matter if that means he’s the starter for the rest of the year or if that means he takes a seat again once Delhomme or Wallace is healthy, I’m 100% in favor of whatever the coaches and our resident quarterback guru’s think is best.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
good points, can’t really argue with any of that.
Dawg Nuts - October 18, 2010
Yes. Do what is best for him.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Winner.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
i’ll have to agree w/ this b/c holmgren and haskell obviously know way better than any of us what’s best for a young qb.
but in my opinion, it’s best for everyone if he continues to start.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
I’m on board. I have more confidence in McCoy than I do in Delhomme.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
I
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
Yup.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Yup.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
I am not 100%, but if he can play similarly as well while both Jake and Seneca are out, Definitely (just to make sure this game wasn’t a fluke).
bross09 - October 18, 2010
If he continues to show good poise, leadership, and decisions then I don’t see why we wouldn’t let him start the remainder of the games.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Me me me!
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
All in.
dawgtribe - October 19, 2010
Also, we need to bench Wright for Haden.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Agreed. Eric has really had a rough season.
realmccoy - October 18, 2010
Shelden hasn’t been all that great either.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
I now see why the Eagles split ties with him.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
How about that QB controversy?
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Stay with Kolb
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
Vick, absolutely.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Vick.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Kolb is awesome, and I still want the Browns to make a play for him.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
No. I didn’t want him before, I want him even less now.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
how is that possible? did you see any of yesterday’s game / highlights?
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
He’ll have a price tag, too hefty when we still have a potentially good rookie.
After yesterday that price just got even bigger, furthermore Reid keeps reiterating how much loves having two good quarterbacks.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
those are legit observations … but i don’t see how it makes you want kolb less now. maybe it makes a potential deal for him more challenging, but after the last two games i very much want to see that guy in orange and brown.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2010
Everyone wants a good QB in orange and brown. However I wouldn’t want to trade for kolb or vick right now when we don’t really know what we have in colt. Either kolb or vick would demand a hefty price tag and frankly I’m not sure if either would be nearly as successful in our offense that lacks the type of playmakers the eagles have got.
frankly you don’t want to jump the gun, you made the decision to use a 3rd round pick on colt, you have to at least give yourself a chance to make that pick count. What you really dont want is to have to trade away more picks for another guy that is hopefully going to replace the guy you just used a 3rd round pick on.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
I agree with this. right now I want to see what we have in McCoy and I think his price tag just skyrocketed.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I did see a bunch of both and I am still not overwhelmed by Kolb. I think he will be solid but not a top-10 QB most years. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s where I stand.
Obviously, having a top 15 QB would be a huge win for us. What do you give up to get a guy you are pretty sure will be good but not great?
rufio - October 19, 2010
A guy you are pretty sure will be good but not great sounds like Matt Cassell. He cost the Chiefs a 2nd rounder.
The problem with Kolb is that he cost the Eagles a 2nd rounder, and I’m sure they’d want a good bit more than what they invested in him, and I don’t think he’s worth any more than 2nd rounder.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
I say Kolb also. I’d like the Browns to try and get him but I think the Eagles would be stupidissimo to trade him away in favor of some kind of future with Vick. Their future, in my opinion is Kolb.
Brownsyup - October 18, 2010
Kolb, but I think everyone here knows how I feel about Vick.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
I would continue to start Vick once healthy. That is quite a good controversy to have, which do I start because both are playing damn good ball?
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Kolb. Has to be.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
Make them breed and raise their spawn to be a starting QB.
JustBob - October 18, 2010
True.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I agree as well. Eric Wright has looked horrible this year, and I keep trying to figure out why. Maybe he needs his old #24 back, it’s not working too well for Shelden Brown.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
Wright can’t handle the competition. I reckon he’s a bit too full of himself after starting as a rookie and having accolades threw his way.
skipkirk - October 18, 2010
Completely agree.
dawgtribe - October 19, 2010
i would love to see aj green or another big play wr come here next year but i think that we need another db either fs or cb to help ward and haden on the back end… if you look at all the teams in our division they are built around the defense and although we are vastly improved on the defensive side of the ball we still have some glaring holes in the secondary and our line is old… in my opinion we need to continue to focus our high draft picks on defensive talent and maybe pick up a wr in free agency next year
tytryon biggums - October 18, 2010
We have so many holes and priorities, it is obvious that we need a minimum of 3 drafts to make headway. Here are the real holes in the team that need addressed with high, premium picks. Playmaking free safety, CB (prolly 2), Home run hitting back (assuming Hardesty is not the one), a beast on the front 7 that can pressure the passer by beating his man and challenging even double teams, if Colt not the answer a QB, a WR that cannot be covered one on one and is able to seperate from DBs. I personally do not know how to rank them, but I would prolly start in the secondary. It is very possible that next year we will have a grand total of 1 CB with potential to be decent. Sheldon may be way too long in the tooth, Wright looks like he laid an egg in a "walk year(?) and Haden has shown some potential to be good.
realmccoy - October 19, 2010
Haden has played pretty damn good, I don’t think safety is something we need to spend another high pick on, I think we can find decent enough corners in late rounds or free agency, I don’t think a home run back is a necessity.
I really want a beast in the front seven, and we need a #1 WR regardless of who our QB is.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2010
Boy – I just see a glaring weakness at the free safety position. I hate to be repetitive, but we have zero intercepts, and 1 pass defensed combined by our safeties. The 1 PD was a blatant drop of an interception by TJ Ward. In addition, I have just seen us killed by over the top passes with the safeties arriving late all year. Hope you are right – but I would really love to dump Elam and find a free safety.
I agree with you personally on Haden. He has looked promising and solid to me. The only doubt I have is why can´t he beat out Wright or Sheldon Brown? I imagine he will be starting in a game or 2.
realmccoy - October 20, 2010
I haven’t seen us getting beat over the top when there was safety help, mostly one-on-one.
I agree we could use a free safety, I just don’t think it’s something we absolutely need to spend a high draft pick on. I’d be comfortable with a free agent or minor trade. I don’t see it as a top need.
notthatnoise - October 21, 2010
This is because the safeties weren’t there when they were supposed to be. It has happened.
I agree though, I don’t think we need an all-pro at FS, just someone who can kinda cover. Unless we are getting Ed Reed, Brian Dawkins, or Troy, safeties don’t have a whole lot of VORP.
rufio - October 21, 2010
I disagree with this. It is easy to look at your team and see all the mistakes and the poor players, especially when you are used to seeing Texas (or OSU) line up and straight-up out-talent the other team vs. the Browns’ traditionally horrible play.
But we are really, really close to being talented enough to being a very good team. Closer than I have ever seen us aside from 2007.
QB is always your biggest need if you don’t have one. I’ll go with OLB, RT, DL after that.
rufio - October 19, 2010
As long as we get DBs from free agency then. It is very possible that Wright gets cut or leaves, Shelden is too old. That would leave us very weak – and I will shut up on the safeties due to the number of requests I have received to shut up about the safeties.
realmccoy - October 20, 2010
I disagree with starting with the secondary. Even the best can only cover for so long, then it’s big play city. If we’re starting on defense, I would say go with the pass rusher first.
However, if McCoy gets some more game time and looks like the real deal with the weapons that we have available, then get him a WR or two. Let’s face it, even with ho-hum offense the Browns have stayed pretty close so far this season. Rather than expect to hold the other team to 10 or less, I’d like to have the ability to keep to throw up a few more points ourselves. It would be nice to think that if we had to we could put together a scoring drive in under five minutes.
JustBob - October 19, 2010
i would love to see aj green or another big play wr come here next year but i think that we need another db either fs or cb to help ward and haden on the back end… if you look at all the teams in our division they are built around the defense and although we are vastly improved on the defensive side of the ball we still have some glaring holes in the secondary and our line is old… in my opinion we need to continue to focus our high draft picks on defensive talent and maybe pick up a wr in free agency next year
tytryon biggums - October 18, 2010
I love his Texas-isms.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
“the hay was in the barn” Hilarious.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
Party pooper time again.
I too enjoyed McCoy’s poise, accuracy and taking care of the ball. I ask myself if Holmgren believes McCoy is the best he can do? After all, if this is how well Holmgren can do with the 85th pick, what can he do with the 5th pick? McCoy’s performance had as much to do with the quality of his grooming as his natural abilities. All I’m saying is, don’t get too attached to Colt because Holmgren may be considering him his stopgap and future backup.
Colt is the most accurate passer we’ve had since Kosar and who knows what he could do with better WRs. In fact, he may emerge as our starter, but I am not about to read the mind of Holmgren.
elsandito - October 18, 2010
If this is the case, Holmgren would have done this in San Fran, Green Bay, Seattle, etc.
It’s not how Holmgren works.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
If I’m remembering right, the highest price he’s ever paid for a QB was the late first round pick he traded for Farvre.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
comparing him to kosar in one start? how about a little realism…
klompus - October 18, 2010
Sure. You know who else was a 3rd round pick? Joe Montana.
Just sayin…
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
im not saying he can’t/won’t develop into something special. just saying you should probably keep that comparison in reserve until he at least finishes his first full season
klompus - October 18, 2010
But Montana went to Notre Dame, Dorn…
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I wasn’t alive yet so it doesn’t count.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Haha. Always an exception to the rule.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I also was born in KC and lived there until about when Joe Montana was QBing the Chiefs to AFC championship games, so I tend to overlook the fact that he went to ND.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Why do you stick around here?
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
fascination with the obscene, mostly
klompus - October 18, 2010
If you don’t have anything constructive to comment then please stop. We welcome visitors from other teams, but continuing to make comments just to start fights or being a jerk will get you banned.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
He’s been trolling us all week, that’s his MO.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
Exactly.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Maybe the question should have been “How do you stick around here?”
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Ha ha. Yeah. I’ve been banned for life (though only for about a month) for far less. Between a half dozen Steeler trolls and the handful of DBN regulars who insist on feeding them, this board has been unreadable for nearly a week. Thank God for Shift-A.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
I shift A’d every single one of those threads.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
what does shift-a do?
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
nevermind, I just found the tiny type at the top that explains all.
Do I feel stupid, lol
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
That’s the important part. If people here wouldn’t respond to their idiotic comments with their own idiotic comments then it wouldn’t be such a problem. I looked through a thread from earlier this week yesterday and some of the comments from people here were just as bad, if not worse, then the Steelers trolls.
I’m much busier now that school is in full swing and I’m teaching my night class twice a week so I haven’t been able to keep up with all the threads as much as I’d like to. But hopefully between Chris, Bernie, and myself, one of us will take care of them.
But, again, if people here would stop responding in equally idiotic manners then it wouldn’t get so bad.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
9James - October 18, 2010
9James - October 18, 2010
Dawg Nuts - October 19, 2010
I asked him the same question on a fan post comment thread.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
My comparison was strictly about accuracy in passing. Colt already has a resume of passing accuracy from his days at Texas.
elsandito - October 18, 2010
I would still take Luck with our first rounder if he is there.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I’m predicting Bills with the #1 pick.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
panthers will fight them until the end, but i can see the bills
klompus - October 18, 2010
or carolina for that matter
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
The fact that McCoy fell to 85th doesn’t mean much beyond the fact that he was not drafted before Clausen (which was a matter of poor judgment for the Panthers). No other teams had a glaring need to spend a pick on him. It reflected the market conditions, not necessarily his skill.
Besides. Tom Brady.
And caveat caveat caveat – it’s only one game from a kid with less-than-ideal physical tools. And so on and so forth…
Spidey - October 18, 2010 via mobile
84 other players were considered higher impact players by all of the evaluators. Sure, these guys get it wrong plenty of times. But, I wouldn’t bet the mortgage against them either.
elsandito - October 18, 2010
And only 3 of them were QBs.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
That’s the point.
Spidey - October 19, 2010
About 2-3 players were considered higher impact players by ALL of the evaluators. We have basically no idea where Colt was on any of their boards.
That said, it is obvious that non-1st round QBs don’t pan out very often and we’d be overcoming ridiculous odds if Colt panned out.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I have seen quite a few calls for the Browns to get a #1 WR in the draft next year (even Dorn’s on board now). A talent infusion at WR is undoubtedly needed but is taking a wide out with a high first round draft pick the best option?
My two main issues are…
1) The conventional thinking that it takes at least a year for WR’s to blossom in the NFL. This means that we can’t expect a serious impact until 2012 from whoever is picked. That leaves the team still without a #1 wide out.
2) The price to acquire an established wide receiver by trade seems to be much less than a 1st round pick. I concede that if a rookie payscale is introduced it would be less of a cap hit to draft a rookie than sign a veteran.
I don’t know if there is anyone out there that the Browns can target and I’m not saying that I am diametrically opposed to drafting a WR in the first round but I have reservations. On a team that still needs playmakers at quite a few positions can the Browns afford to draft a WR #1 and not get a return for at least another year?
And I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also leery of another Braylon Edwards situation.
Monsters of the Midway - October 18, 2010
We still need to shore up the right side of the O line. The defensive secondary isnt there yet. We need pass rushers. So, yeah WR is a severe need, but I wouldn’t pass a better player in any of these other areas to fill the need.
elsandito - October 18, 2010
Right side is serviceable to be pushed down the needs list. Lauvao seems like he can be a rood RG and we can get a good RT in the second or third.
I’m for Pass Rush or WR.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
I hope we get to see Lauvao sometime this year.
mgtbfb - October 18, 2010
improvements at RT and RG can be found in the second+ rounds much easier than legit #1 WRs. I still think Lauvao can play, finding a RT in the 2nd round shouldn’t be that hard, especially if we are drafting this high every year.
rufio - October 18, 2010
and IMO, we don’t need a RT as desperately as we need youth on the DL or a pass rusher, or other things. Pashos is servicable for now and could be servicable for another year so we don’t need to take a RT high IMO
bross09 - October 18, 2010
We need a stud OLB for pass rushing. Our pass rush is horrible!
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I don’t think its horrible. We just don’t have a ton of talent. Horrible is definitely an overexaggeration. Above average at least is a better way to put it. We got to ben yesterday, but he was able to get it out quick enough.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I’m just saying it would be really nice to have a stud LB that can blitz (without blitzing everyone) and get to the QB. Seems like from highlights I watched we were getting to Ben late quite often. I also realize that Ben is notorious for stepping out of those sacks because its hard to tackle his fat ass.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I agree with the need. we need a guy who can command double teams and still get to the QB. roth and benard are nice, but we need a guy who can take the pressure off of them so they can have more freedom to rush.
I dunno if we were getting to big ben late per se or if he was releasing it quicker.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
It would be great to be able to get pressure with 4 every now and then.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Boy, is that an understatement. We are so lacking here.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
This is exactly what I was going for with my comment. Ryan seems to have to “give up” some good pass coverage to get the pressure he wants on QB’s. I’m all for blitzing, but it would be nice to get to the QB quicker with less guys.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Or quicker with as many guys.
I don’t think Ryan would stop blitzing, nor would I want him to.
If we found the next DeMarcus Ware, maybe.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Yeah, at this point the biggest need on defense may not be so much at any given position. Speed on defense is one of the biggest liabilities.
dawgtribe - October 19, 2010
I do think our coaches put the emphasis on physicality over speed.
rufio - October 19, 2010
True. I love the physicality and toughness of this team. But if they consistently choose physicality over speed then it could be a consistent flaw with this defense. They’ve gotten burned on a lot of plays this year because they are a second too late. Or maybe it’s due to a lack of technique, IDK.
dawgtribe - October 19, 2010
No, we are pretty slow.
We just need to find players that are physical as well as fast. The Browns are allowed to do that, right?
If our coaches have to sacrifice one, I think they take physicality is all I am saying.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I totally agree. I like our D, I just feel we have one of the slowest Ds out there and that hurts us big time.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
We are talking linebackers, right? I mean, Wright is really fast, Haden plays quite fast, so does Ward. 3-4 lineman are never going to be all that fast. We just don’t have any fast linebackers… still.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
We don’t have one NFL athlete at LB.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
Maybe Marcus Benard.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
I’ve had the position circled for years now. Those blitzes would look so much better with better athletes.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
Haden is fast but also physical. Ward is fast, but definitely physical. The current regime inherited Wright.
Abe Elam.
We could use more speed everywhere on D, but Mangini will take the slower, more physical player over the faster, less physical player every time. It does mostly pertain to the front 7, but I think it is everywhere.
rufio - October 20, 2010
I agree. Best player available with special attention paid to our biggest weaknesses :
DL
LB
WR
OL
jaws. - October 18, 2010
Joe Thomas thinks that last one needs stricken.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
I was glad to see Thomas play better this week.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
I truly disagree that DL is the biggest problem. I think right now, the WR and Safety play is hurting us the most. Ward is nice, but we need someone who can provide consistent help over the top…a roaming free safety.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
We do need to bump Elam down to the 3rd safety, but I think that is a need we can wait on or momentarily patch through FA.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I wonder what Asante’s up to. He’s still on our practice squad, I think. It’d be nice if he pulled a Marcus Benard sometime before the end of the season.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
I wondered what happened to him. It would be very nice to see him suddenly “get it” and step up his game.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I think it is a need that needs to be addressed in some way in the offseason. I wouldn’t mind bringing in a Free Agent. I totally agree with Elam. he is a nice rotational guy and backup, but I hate seeing him starting, especially with ward next to him.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I would put CB higher than safety, once we have our CBs locked down, Brown can move over to safety.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
If brown can be a servicable free safety, sure. we definitely need another solid guy back there and CB and FS are pretty much identically big needs IMO. If we can get Patrick Robinson and move Brown to FS, I would like that.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I mean patrick peterson…patrick robinson was a CB in the most recent draft.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
what about CB… if we can get another haden to replace brown i would feel better.
crazyL80 - October 18, 2010
yeah, even w/ taking haden last year i’d still put CB way up on the list of needs. bross is right above … if patrick peterson is available whenever we pick i think he’s the guy.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
He is kind of a freak. CB is one position where the combine/pro days actually matter to me, though, so I want to see him run.
rufio - October 19, 2010
I think we’d need to keep the relative sure-ness of the 1st round talent in mind. I would only take a WR in the top 10 if he is a guy who:
1. Produced in college
2. Demonstrated not only good speed, but also good hands in college
3. Was physically worthy of the pick
4. Did not have character flags and seemed an intelligent, high-character guy.
5. Did not see a huge stock boost due to the combine
So in other words I would take Calvin Johnson in the top 10 but not DHB. Guys like Crabtree and Dez would be iffy, depending on how you viewed their character. No Ted Ginns, no Mike Williams no Troy Williamson. More needs to be reported on AJ Green before I would feel comfortable with him.
Keep in mind we could also try to trade back in the 1st to select a WR at a more appropriate spot. The bottom half of the 1st has been a good area for WRs in recent years. Many of those guys show flashes their first year, which is really all we could ask for at this point. If the draft were tomorrow, I think there would be a few guys in the 20s who would be worth looking at.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Everyone in the NFL — except for Al Davis — agrees with you on that.
And I’m on board with AJ Green, as least as far as I know now. I don’t see him selling a jersey for a few bucks a character concern.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
I don’t either, but I would love to read some interviews with him to hear him answer questions about it, or hear coaches say something about his work ethic, or anything really. I am sure I will get more than my fill around late Feb-early Mar.
There are not many WRs taken in the top 5-10, so cherry-picking Johnson was all I could really do. I might have been able to cherry-pick the other Johnson or Fitz, but those seemed equally obvious now. It would be equally obvious to cherry pick Charles Rodgers the other way.
rufio - October 18, 2010
Somewhat unrelated, but has anyone ever mentioned that Calvin Johnson on the Colts, Patriots, or Saints would probably be breaking all kinds of records.
He just seems like the perfect receiver.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Think about all of those ridiculous season Andre Johnson put up with Texans QBs before Matt Schaub and as the only real threat in that offense.
rufio - October 18, 2010
to me, this sounds like either Michael Floyd or AJ Green. on a per game basis, they are some of the most productive WRs coming out and both have great hands and are physically gifted.
my only “red flag” about green is the character issues of selling his jersey (to me, its minor however) and for Floyd, he may not have top end speed and he has injury issues.
Either way, both fit your criteria and they are 2 of my top choices.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I am sticking with Patrick Peterson of LSU.
I don’t see a pass rusher worth it yet. I really, really, really, really wish there was.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
If Quinn didn’t have such serious off the field issues, I might consider him worth it.
I really like vonn miller, but not that high also.
I agree. Peterson would be a great pick.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Quinn, Von Miller, Akeem Ayers are all people to keep an eye on. Right now it doesn’t look like any of them would be worth it where we are drafting.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I totally agree. I like all of them. without personal conduct issues, quinn may have been worth it there.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
how about marvin austin? i haven’t followed closely enough, but it sounds like his major violation was agent contact?
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
Same here, sounds right though. He would be a DE for us. He is not exactly a “Mangini guy” in terms of work ethic. I think he is a better fit in a 1-gap scheme.
Paea sounds like a good fit for us, as does Clayborn. Dexter Larimore might be worth a later round pick as he would be a good fit. I think Cam Heyward would be solid for us as well. There are other guys with a lot of talent (Dareus, Jurrell Casey from USC) who I haven’t watched enough but think could be good in our scheme.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Watching Wisconsin Saturday night, I started a man crush on JJ Watt.
6-6, 292lbs and pass rush like that? Yes please.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2010
Is there any merit to Clay or is it just another case of the line making the RB look much better than he is?
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I want nothing to do with Clay. He is slow to hole and IMO the prototypical college RB that does nada in the NFL.
His O-Line is the best in CFB which helps him.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2010
I agree 100% with you here.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
So he’s the reincarnation of Ron Dayne?
bross09 - October 19, 2010
Ron Dayne had decent vision. I saw Clay run away from at least three holes Saturday night.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
I didn’t know much about Clay’s vision. I was just thinking huge rumbling back from wisconsin who does/will do nada in the NFL
bross09 - October 20, 2010
Eh, OSU has some serious o-line issues right now. They haven’t been playing to what
they areI hope they are capable of. Illinois and Wisconsin (mostly JJ Watt) benefited from this.Adrian Clayborn should be interesting (
or saddening) to watch in the Iowa game…Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
Shugarts, Adams, Brewster were supposed to be an elite class of O-line talent. They have been quite disappointing so far. Especially Shugarts and Adams
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Exactly, definitely a let down after last season.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
Yup, this is probably OSU’s biggest problem over the past two years.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
Name an offensive lineman to ever play up to their “ranking” under Bollman (outside of Mangold). It isn’t a surprise to me that Boren is our best O-Lineman. He has had the least exposure to Bollman.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
I tend to think Brewster is legit.
SpecialBrownie - October 20, 2010
Same here. But I don’t see how he has gotten much better since he has started as a freshman. Where is the advancement of these players? Same could be said for Alex Boone.
Brewster is a Senior next year, and I can’t imagine him being a good NFL offensive lineman right now.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
He’s gotten a lot better. There is a lot of room for him to improve, and the “where would he be now if X was his coach” is never going to be answered. I think Brewster will be an NFL center.
Sometimes the HS rankings just don’t mean that much.
rufio - October 20, 2010
I’m not saying that HS rankings are the end all, but that doesn’t change the fact that Ohio State no longer puts out NFL quality lineman.
It doesn’t surprise me that when Ohio State has lost, they have been handled at the LOS. Ohio State no longer blocks at an elite level, that is mostly Bollman’s fault. He has the pick of the litter and can’t get it done.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
When we lost at Wisconsin we couldn’t stop them from blocking at an elite level either.
I don’t think our lines have been particularly dominant but this current line is not as bad as you are making them out to be. The middle three are legit.
rufio - October 20, 2010
I do like Brewster also. But this is a fair point. Coaches need some blame here.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
If only he could line up against Shugarts in the NFL . . .
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I´m pleased that he did well. That´s what I was hoping for, that he would show some immeasurables: Poise, panache, a can-do attitude. You know move around, be in charge, try stuff. Maybe this is the flavor the Browns have been waiting for.
mooncamping - October 18, 2010
Wasn’t McCoy running the no huddle and doing it pretty well?
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
I thought he looked way better than Quinn or Anderson running hurry up. The offense looked like 11 monkeys trying to F$$$ a football with those two leading it.
It also looked like McCoy had more arm strength than advertised.
mgtbfb - October 18, 2010
Rec for use of the word “panache.”
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
Wouldn’t it be great if McCoy pans out? God knows we are due for a break and it would be huge for the front office to scratch off QB from the list of needs. They could then go WR in the first (and possibly second) round and use the rest of the draft to help shore up the holes on defense.
I’d also be on board with us taking a top notch pass rusher if he happened to be the BPA. McCoy panning out would allow that to happen.
mgtbfb - October 18, 2010
it would be awesome if mccoy panned out… but is anyone worried that Holmgren might see promise in the team, use Mangini as a scapegoat for another 2-5 win season fire him and take over and run what we all clearly see blossuming into the ground?
tytryon biggums - October 18, 2010
I think we know your opinion of Holmgren as head coach now.
elsandito - October 18, 2010
Hadn’t really occurred to me
9James - October 18, 2010
BPA weighted by position. If Robert Quinn (or we trade down and Vonn Miller) is there and AJ green isn’t, I say go pass rusher. If Quinn is gone and green is there, I say go WR
bross09 - October 18, 2010
My God, we have such low expectations. I think we as a fan base might be delusional. We just got roughed up bad by our biggest rival, and the talk here is gushing, overwhelmingly positive and the tone is like yesterday’s train wreck of an afternoon was somehow a moral victory, namely because Colt McCoy didn’t quite suck as bad as we all would have feared.
I’m sorry folks, and I hate to simply sound contrarian, but yesterday was NOT progress. I understand expectations were remarkably low, starting a rookie QB and all, but, yes, while we didn’t “get housed by 20+,” we still lost soundly by 18!
I think it’s a bit premature to go anointing Colt McCoy. This place can be such an echo chamber. Bernie, you are going to choose yesterday’s game for your come to Jesus moment concerning Eric Mangini’s tenure? Really? Because the team wasn’t as remarkably inept as under the administration of Romeo Crennel? That’s the standard? What a low bar we’ve set.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Hm, there is a lot wrong with this comment and it makes me think you’re a Steelers fan
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
here here
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
FYI: it’s actually ‘hear, hear’.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
I know I know, somehow i managed to make that mistake twice.
MkBrwn - October 18, 2010
I think you, my friend, with your incessant barrage of sophomoric one-liners has more in common with trolling Steelers fans than anyone else on this board.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
rec’d
klompus - October 18, 2010
Trolling Steelers fans love your comment, WR.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a legitimate comment.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Thank you for proving my point.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
That really doesn’t prove your point
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010
This is one of the funniest things in this thread
9James - October 18, 2010
awesome.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
SB, that comment is completely uncalled for. Calling someone a Steelers fan just because he’s not as optimistic as most people here is ridiculous. If you have a problem with something he said then please explain and give reasons, don’t just come back with a quick and senseless rhetort like you always do.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
That was unnecessary as well.
Villeslgr - October 18, 2010
What, BB a hypocrite? Noooooooo.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
How am I a hypocrite? If I disagree with someone’s comment then I will explain why and give reasons. I don’t make senseless one-liners just trying to be funny or give someone a put-down.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
No, it wasn’t. WR said the same thing above. Many people on here are tired of his immature behavior.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
that last part of the comment was completely unnecessary and will only egg him on. Read your comment with just that part omitted, it’s just as meaningful.
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
They may be, but as you just said, WR said it above. So why would it be necessary for you to repeat it?
Villeslgr - October 18, 2010
Can’t we just start deleting some of this crap. If it isn’t football opinion/discussion, I’d vote to make it deletable, on the mods discretion. I’m starting to totally ignore several posters on the assumption that 4/5 of what they write has nothing to do with football and isn’t worth my time. I’ve stopped reading game threads and post game threads, and at some point this crap chills honest conversation.
I mean, one line saying, “haha, you sound like a Steelers fan”… fine. 2,000 comments debating the validity of that statement and everything else semantical is just ridiculous. And harmful to the blog.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Well, I’d like to, but when I start deleting comments like those above for being inappropriate then I start getting attacked all the time and called unfair and a hypocrite and get my every comment questioned, and I really don’t want to deal with that any more than I have to because I have better things to do with my time. I try to point out how comments like that are inappropriate but the message doesn’t get across.
I certainly think it’s a good idea to just delete comments like this before they start becoming huge subthreads, as long as Chris thinks that’s a good idea. It really does take away from the good discussions on the blog and makes us look bad to visitors.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I stay out of this stuff 99% of the time, but I agree. Arguing semantics gets
irritating. I don’t mind the joking around or playful banter though.emily522 - October 19, 2010
That was supposed to be bold.
emily522 - October 19, 2010
You did it too! Haha!
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Ha, I actually think it stands out better than way.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
Yeah, the banter and jokes are fine. It is the discussion of what people meant or said or if something was an opinion or fact and all that crap.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
That’s basically what I said haha.
emily522 - October 20, 2010
Exactly. And it was just the one comment, until Brad started arguing its validity, along with a big blanket that I thought I was included in.
I felt that if I was being called out, that I would respond. Outside this (and one other, a few months back) I really don’t get into these off the wall internet arguments on here. And my occasional “one-liners” are always lighthearted and generally related.
I’m all for deleting this crap too, along with the troll comments. But let’s be honest, in this case that would start with Brad’s first comment criticizing a group of us for having a “mob mentality.” He’s just as guilty of the stuff he calls people out for.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
I realize it puts a mod in a tough position, you don’t want it to seem like he is deleting stuff just because he doesn’t agree. I really could have put my post about 50 different places in this and other threads over the last couple weeks. I just happened to click through this one when I decided to say something.
You are right that this thread should be deleted at Brad’s post. But I don’t want to sound like I’m just calling him out. I’m calling out a lot of people, including myself, for getting sucked in to these conversations and clogging up the blog.
Ryan Kelsey - October 19, 2010
Perfect. I’m with you wholeheartedly there.
If he could have stated something like this to begin with, I honestly don’t think it would have gone this far.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
‘Clogging up the blog’ got me to thinking about something I noticed during Chiefs week. Their blog has just as much traffic as SBN, but very few monster 1000 post threads. I’m sure they have knock down drag out fight every now and again, but no where near as often as we do. Why is this? I’d say it has to do with the amount of content posted to the blog. Their game threads from Sunday are already on page 7. Fifty one articles have been posted since Sunday (19 just today) on Arrowhead Pride. They have 5 contributors, three editors and two managers posting simple articles on a specific play or a specific issue.
Let me be clear here, I don’t want this to come across as a complaint against Chris or any of our other contributors (I enjoy reading one and all, and Chris in particular is a very good and polished writer), but we have half as many contributors as Arrowhead Pride (and of those Ryan posts an article once a week, rufio once a blue moon during the school year, and Brad doesn’t post at all) and the content just sort of sits there. And when it sits there we all have plenty of time to find something to argue about as we spend days in the same massive, near impossible to navigate thread.
I think many of our recurring problems could be fixed by 1. having more content on the main page, and 2. having that content be topical and specific. I think we need 2 or 3 more writers, another mod, and a commitment to promoting more content from the side bars to the main bar. There should be enough content so that an article posted today is on the second a day later. The quicker it drops down the page and onto page two, the more on topic our conversations will be, as there won’t be time to argue the finer points of who said what to whom.
What’s everyone else think? Barking up the wrong tree?
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
couldn’t agree more (not a knock against the existing ruling party at all) … though i don’t have the ability to contribute, so it’s easy for me to say.
DontCallMeJoey - October 20, 2010
I love this idea. I agree with everything.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
I think its a fine line. I don’t like when blogs have so much front page content that really good articles get 5 comments and are so buried within 24 hours that the conversation dies prematurely. 19 articles in one day is just too much
That said, I think there can be more content here. But here’s the great thing about SBN. Go for it. Do it. YOU. These blogs work the best when well thought out fan posts are an active part of the conversation. Right now, its just a place for newbies and opposing teams to throw stuff against the wall. I’d think that if some more good fan posts were created, we could promote more of that content to the front page, and eventually if someone is consistent about it, Chris can give them front page privileges.
I wish I could post more- and I hope to soon. I don’t want to make promises I can’t keep, but my time will free up after the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, if you catch my drift.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
I should say, this is my opinion, which means almost very little. Chris may have a completely different vision.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
I think what you are talking about in the first paragraph tends to happen at Along the Olentagy.
bross09 - October 20, 2010
That was definitely one that came to mind.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
I’ve always thought that the successful SBN blogs thrived on community and quality material. It seems to me that AtO has great material, but is lacking in community. It’s not so much that the articles leave the front page to fast with only 5 comments, it’s that the active community apparently isn’t large enough to create more discussion. I might be wrong though.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
yes. I agree with you. I have been on the game threads there and there end up being maybe 20-30 comments on there.
I have seen many articles leave the front page with 0 comments.
If you combined their content with our community, it would be great.
bross09 - October 20, 2010
I agree. The Chiefs blog tends to move to fast, though I think there’s probably a sweet spot somewhere between nineteen articles and one-or-two.
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
I stick with posting FanShots because the FanPost editor is garbage. But encouraging people to write more FanPosts is an excellent way to increase the amount of content and would be a good means of determining who gets front page privileges.
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
That’s an understatement.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
This is why I had to re do our draft in the front page editor.
SpecialBrownie - October 20, 2010
Tip: write in word and copy and paste into the FanPost box.
If the content is decent, the format shouldn’t matter.
I haven’t written a fan post in a long time, but I’m assuming its the same or similar to what we use for front page stories. It’s not ideal, but it gets the job done.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
Any time I write anything anywhere that’s more than a few paragraphs in length, I write it in a text editor and copy and paste. But here, the copy-paste method really does nothing to sidestep the issues with the editor.
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
I’ve heard from two other people that are worlds apart. Apparently, someone SBN thought it was a good idea to needlessly dumb down the FanPost editor to the point that it works like crap and is next to nothing like the front page editor.
That’s what I heard.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
I just checked, they are exactly the same.
Ryan Kelsey - October 21, 2010
I still disagree. Unless they changed it.
SpecialBrownie - October 21, 2010
It may have been changed, I don’t know. It looks the same to me.
Ryan Kelsey - October 21, 2010
As a writer, I would love to have another set of eyes.
My biggest issue is that I struggle to have “something new” to post. I usually like to have a good idea with some sort of research or semblance of knowledge before I post something.
Writing something that is actually worth reading is a hell of a lot harder than it sounds. But I do think you may be on to something.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
well said.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
I like it
I like to proofread and don’t mind doing research if you are in need of either of those things….I really enjoy reading this blog and would love to give back by helping to make it better.
I know I’m a new poster and all, but just thought I would offer my services.
da36chamberz - October 20, 2010
No question. Writing is work.
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
When I was a minion, I had about 3 or 4 good ideas I had to write about when I started. Man did that 4th article come quick. And it was hard as hell to think of something.
SpecialBrownie - October 20, 2010
I’ve got some stuff, but no time. Less time for tape review. May can’t come quickly enough. Or slowly enough (because I have to get a ton of stuff done before then).
rufio - October 21, 2010
agree completely. I’ve had some success with previous posts, but I think that’s because I only post when I feel my idea would be fun for people to read, or inspiring, or something like that. those ideas rarely come along, and we certainly don’t need 15 “whatta ya think about colt?” posts just for the sake of content.
Dawg Nuts - October 23, 2010
I agree. 19 articles in one day is a little much, but I think maybe adding more writers would help.
I would contribute every once in awhile, but sadly I’m not knowledgeable enough.
I think that you and others on here could write some good stuff, though.
I’m not a prospect expert, but perhaps someone could take up an article section about prospects that specifically the Browns could/should look at for the draft? Kind of like their own scouting report?
Of course, we should wait until we’re “officially” out of the playoffs before we do that.
emily522 - October 20, 2010
What happened to doing an article each week on ’09 Browns vs ’10 Browns? I mentioned this in another thread, but I would love to see this each week.
Kimble_79 - October 20, 2010
Very interesting idea. Seems plausible, but we’d have to see an example to be sure whether it would work out. It definitely seems like something worth reading though.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
Someone did one after like 3 games or so I think. I’ll have to dig around on here, but others may remember it. Compared our stats from last year to this year on defense/offense/ect..
Kimble_79 - October 20, 2010
A weekly possibility might be tracking our progress on the weekly basis compared to last season. Thoughts?
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
Right, something like what I linked above, but maybe a few more in-depth stats as well.
Kimble_79 - October 20, 2010
I might consider doing that…maybe starting on friday. I just need to get finished with this darn final.
bross09 - October 20, 2010
College definitely doesn’t make things easier.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
college makes everything easier. the real world blows, by comparison.
DontCallMeJoey - October 20, 2010
Yes to this.
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
I was referring to writing fanposts, of couse, but your point still stands.
Simmsinns - October 21, 2010
well…finals week isn’t easy, but besides that…
bross09 - October 21, 2010
In the real world, every week is finals week. If you screw up in the real world you might be out of a job. If you blow a final you just have to take the class again.
Villeslgr - October 21, 2010
thats true…
But I had to write like 10 pages to day. My dad has to write 10 page reports for his job, but he gets like a week to do it.
bross09 - October 21, 2010
I’ve never seen someone given a day to write a 10 page paper for a class.
Villeslgr - October 21, 2010
I also had to read a 150 page book and didn’t finish it until yesterday.
bross09 - October 22, 2010
I miss college. Good times.
Buckeye Brad - October 21, 2010
rec. College is a joke. I wish I did more College when i was in College.
Villeslgr - October 21, 2010
i tried to do a lot of College while i was in College, and i didn’t do NEARLY enough.
DontCallMeJoey - October 21, 2010
Bernie19Kosar - October 21, 2010
Let me comment on this.
I never had a legit girlfriend until Jr. year of high school. It was sweet, awesome, you know, whatever. Fast forward to 3 years later… I’m a sophomore in college and I’m still with the girl. I love her but…
You have absolutely no god damn clue how hard it is.
SpecialBrownie - October 21, 2010
College was incredible. I miss it so much.
Ryan Kelsey - October 21, 2010
I miss undergrad. It was great.
rufio - October 22, 2010
Ah, and I’m only in the 2nd month of my freshman year :).
emily522 - October 22, 2010
Just an idea, I wouldn’t know if it would work out, but maybe like a ’09 Week 6 Browns vs. ’10 Week 6 Browns, in addition to the actual progress.
Again, I guess we’d have to try it out to see if it’s something people will enjoy reading.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
yeah.
Just compare our record, compare our SOS, and other stats.
Yeah, college doesn’t make it easier but it should be fine after this week (1 out of my 4 classes will be over)
bross09 - October 20, 2010
I would be all for this! Yearly stats and weekly could be interesting. I really want to see these stats so people already clamoring for Mangini’s head can see them, as well as keep myself informed of course.
Kimble_79 - October 21, 2010
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2010/9/20/1700408/breaking-down-the-browns-09-and-10
This is what I would like to continue to see each week. Granted they may not change drastically week to week, but still I would enjoy seeing this.
Kimble_79 - October 20, 2010
I like that idea.
emily522 - October 20, 2010
I did a couple scouting columns at the end of last year. I’ll probably do that again – but not until we have clinched a losing record.
Don’t underestimate yourself, emily. A little effort and you could put a good article together. Fan posts are fun!
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
Second the emily encouragement.
golanbatrac - October 20, 2010
Thanks! I just need to think of something to write about now…
emily522 - October 20, 2010
And I promise not to call out grammatical mistakes if there are any… like last time, haha.
But it’s easy. The one that set me off was an article I wrote about putting stripes on the brown pants haha.
SpecialBrownie - October 20, 2010
Haha it’s fine. Back then I wasn’t capitalizing out of laziness :p.
emily522 - October 21, 2010
This isn’t really a football analysis type post, but what happened to the caption contests? Those were funny. Bringing back those would be nice.
emily522 - October 20, 2010
I stopped because of a picture right problem that I had with another SBNation site. I was never asked to stop, but I decided I should probably stop before I got myself and SB sued.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
Ooooh I see. That makes sense.
emily522 - October 20, 2010
Aren’t any of the pictures that you can get through the Front page editior legit though? That’s how Chris explained it to me when I minioned.
SpecialBrownie - October 20, 2010
Speaking of pictures, I was thinking about maybe a weekly FanShot called “NFL Shoops” or something more clever. The idea would be that each week I try to find an amusing NFL picture (preferably during a game that week) the can be exploited (via Photoshop) in a humorous manner (entirely work safe of course).
I would link the original and fanshot my edit, then I would open it up to see what the community could do, using any editing program they wished, even MSpaint. The funniest one would get the most RECs.
Copyright would not be an issue because due to the heavy alterations made to the photos, as well as fair use.
If it’s something that people might be interested in I’ll give it a try. If it’s a dumb idea, I’ll scrap it.
Simmsinns - October 21, 2010
I think it is pretty cool. I vote for it.
Bernie19Kosar - October 21, 2010
Agreed.
emily522 - October 21, 2010
Ok, I’ll give it a try then. I’ll start to work on it after class today, and have the fanshot up (hopefully) by midday Friday. From then on I’ll aim for the weekly post to be around midweek, like Wednesdays.
Simmsinns - October 21, 2010
Yes, fair use and 10% copyright laws come into play so we’d be fine.
SpecialBrownie - October 21, 2010
By your definition your post is deletable. Wait – so is mine.
realmccoy - October 20, 2010
not sure 11.8% wrong qualifies as “a lot”. i’m not quite as down about yesterday as WR, seeing as we were down 11 w/ 4ish minutes to go and getting the ball back (thanks, chansi), but let’s be careful about applauding yesterday too much. we did get smacked in the mouth by our biggest rival, and WR is 88.2% correct here.
however, i am at a point in my browns fan life where i do take some comfort in moral victories. mccoy played well enough to believe he doesn’t totally suck and makes me want to see more. plus, we hung pretty tough as a team under difficult circumstances.
but we did get beat to shit, and that’s not so awesome.
DontCallMeJoey - October 19, 2010
This was fantastic.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2010
Boo this man
tytryon biggums - October 18, 2010
If Colt continues to do well and grows into that QBOTF, then yeah… this is a morale victory. We need a QB badly. Also, no one is anointing McCoy. We’re all just excited that he showed a lot of promise.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
I’m not rooting against Colt, I’m really not. But that’s the largest, most glaring “if” in the professional game of football.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
No one’s disputing that, though.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
This is not a bad “if” to have.
Imagine if Holmgren/Heckert hadn’t drafted McCoy or another QB this year. People would be going crazy now that Delhomme and Wallace are both hurt. When McCoy slid into the third round H&H almost had to take him at No. 85.
It’s not like we’re talking about the No. 1 overall pick tied up for 6 years and $78 million. McCoy has some time now to show if he can be the answer. If not, the front office knows they still need to find another QB this off season.
Monsters of the Midway - October 18, 2010
I think the optimism is that our best or most promising players seem to be the guys that Heckert and Holmgren were responsible for. I still think we are 2 seasons of good drafts and offseasons from being playoff caliber, but at least we can start putting some faith in the guys acquiring the talent.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
And I agree with all of that. I’m high on this new administration’s ability to draft guys that will actually find the field.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
And you make that much so obvious.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I like that Haden and Ward are on the field making contributions. I wouldn’t consider yesterday a launching point.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I would consider yesterday maybe a launching point for haden. he had a knockdown or two, a solid tackle, and a pick. the pick is a launching point IMO for haden, just like it is for other CBs once they come into the league.
Now ward didn’t do anything different…he just tackled.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
It was a pretty generous throw from Ben, but the return was spectacular.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
Yeah, the return was great. He followed his teammates really well to get as many yards as he could get. I almost thought he was going all the way at one point.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
And then he had a personal foul committed upon him at the end of the play with no call.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
Clearly not a personal foul. To be a personal foul it would have had to be committed by someone who wasn’t a Steeler.
Seriously, the officiating yesterday was maybe the worst I’ve ever seen.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Did he return any punts or was Stuckey returning the whole game after Cribbs went out?
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Stuckey was returning punts, although Haden did return some in the preseason so I would have liked to see him out there instead.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
He looked good following blockers on the INT he got and that was my first thought that he would look good returning for us. I missed the game trying to get moved into our new house and was wondering if he got a chance or not.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Stuckey was more dropping punts than returning them, unfortunately.
Chemo - October 18, 2010
Haden returned kicks, Stuckey punts, once Cribbs was out.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
Just curious, but how did Haden to at returning kicks? He looked pretty shifty and seemed to have a good eye for blocks following the INT.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Good. Fast. In my mind shiftiness isn’t as important at returning kicks as straight line speed and vision. The shifty joy-stick Dante Hall/Devin Hester types are great for punt returns, but I’d prefer the Josh Cribbs acceleration approach for kicks. And Haden looked more than capable. Though he does look very small with the ball in his hands and didn’t break any tackles.
Ryan Kelsey - October 18, 2010
It seems like punt returns now a days you need a guy who can slither out of a couple of tackles to hit big returns (reggie bush, dante hall, devin hester) because punters can punt it so high the guy has to beat the gunners himself.
Meanwhile on kick returns is where josh cribbs shines. A bigger guy who can run and who has fantastic vision and can almost supernaturally make a subtle cut while maintaining his top speed.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
Cribbs also is good at breaking tackles once he gets going a little.
rufio - October 19, 2010
Me too, I thought he was taking it to the house.
I was waiting for someone to light Roethlisberger up with a big block, too.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
it was a bad throw, but he still had to be in position and make the catch. and yes, the return is spectacular and we got a glimpse of what he could be like when he gets picks.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
maybe not even 2 drafts away from PO caliber
klompus - October 18, 2010
You need a license for that in these parts, guy.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
ISWYDT.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
Did you watch this game? It was extremely close. Our guys played really hard and we weren’t out-physical’d by pittsburgh like we have been under every other regime.
Our defense played very well but were killed because our offense couldn’t stay on the field. They finally broke our backs late in the game. One or two more pieces and that doesn’t happen.
A loss is a loss is a loss. We shouldn’t be satisfied with being 1-X. Colt didn’t play like Peyton. He missed some throws, he missed some reads. But how can you not be at least a little happy about a team that plays this hard and a QB who finally had some “it”?
rufio - October 18, 2010
Yes, rufio, I watched the game — just like I watch every game.
I’ll give you that we are just about as physical as anyone in the trenches. This was recognizable a few weeks ago against Baltimore, even against Cincy who has a few hogs of their own in the trenches. I’m glad we’re about there, too, as we’ve been trying to accomplish this for about ten years now.
It’s not that I’m not even “a little happy” overall, it’s just that I’m not joyous after yesterday. I really don’t think yesterday’s game proved much. There was no watershed moment for me. Colt didn’t have a meltdown. Okay, great. But what questions did we really answer about our team? My answer: Not much.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
What questions did we answer about our team?
—Without Josh Cribbs, both our offense and special teams are inferior, especially against a good team.
—Colt McCoy showed a great deal of poise and potential in a hostile situation against a superior team and may, in fact, be pretty good.
—We’re still not as good as the Steelers
—Our wide receiver corps is not so deep that we can withstand losing our top two wideouts to cheap and malicious head shots
—The Browns clearly either do not have the fire to retaliate against illegal behavior or have been coached not to
There’s a start.
woodsmeister - October 18, 2010
I’ll give you the second point as far as poise and hostile environment go. The last one is sort of irrelevant and a toss up.
The other three we could have answered before we even got on the bus to go to Pittsburgh.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I think we know now that we can be in any game and we just need a little success on offense to be able to win any game. I think we know our team will fight like hell.
This is a huge departure from last year and every other year I have been a fan except 2007. Maybe that’s just what I saw.
rufio - October 18, 2010
I’m with WR. Colt showed flashes of being okay yesterday, but we got our butts kicked. Nobody should be anointed or celebrated based on yesterday’s performance.
I want to be optimistic about the Browns and all, but good grief.
Chemo - October 18, 2010
Tell me this…what other QBs have faced the Steelers this year and how did they fare?
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
I remember hearing that other than Colt’s TD they’ve given up 1 passing TD the whole year.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Matt Ryan: 27/44 252yds 0TD
Kerry Colins: 17/25 149yds 1TD
Josh Freeman: 20/31 184yds 0TD
Joe Flacco: 24/37 256yds 1TD
Colt McCoy: 23/33 281yds 1TD
He threw for more yards than Flacco and Ryan. This makes me believe he may be the real deal.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Also these stats
Ryan 1INT 67.6 Rating
Collins 1INT 80.3
Freeman 1INT 67.1
Flacco 1INT 82.7
McCoy 2INT 80.5
Not bad considering its his first game…pretty damn good really.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Nice.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
very nice
crazyL80 - October 18, 2010
Roddy White, Michael Turner, Chris Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Ray Rice.
Peyton Hillis and Ben Watson.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Good point. Big difference in surrounding talent.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
well, matt ryan, flacco, Josh Freeman, and VY.
Combined, they were held to 2 TDs, 6 INTs, and a 69.4 QB rating with only flacco posting above a 70 QB rating. they held their opponents to 221 yards per game.
So Colt burned them worse than Flacco or Ryan could. Colt fared better than those QBs in every category while attempting (on average) 4 less throws.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Burned them? We scored 10 whole points.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I wouldn’t say burned them either. But if a rookie QB can put up numbers like that in his first game against a defense as physical as Pittsburgh’s, then he is generating quite a bit of confidence from me anyways.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
280 yards, at least 4 of which were 20+ and a TD. All this without the best WRs on the team.
You realize the final score usually doesn’t tell you much about the game outside of the winner and loser?
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
If the score is irrelevant, why, in the same breath, would you present his stat line, garbage time and all, as evidence? Cherry picking, no?
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
The score is irrelevant to the burn comment, whether or not he did actually burn them.
The stat line is not irrelevant to the burn comment, also whether or not he did, which is relative to a persons figurative meaning of “burn a defense” is.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Seriously? You know, we could go round robin on the figurative meaning, but let’s not and say we didn’t. It’s a charming theory though.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
even before the garbage time, he was more effective against the steelers than the previous QBs.
If a 3rd round rookie who wasn’t expected to start this year performs better against them than Matt Ryan or Vince Young (who hasn’t stretched the field but has been efficient this year…outside of the steelers game), i consider that ‘burned’
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Okay, I consider that a rather strong word choice, but if that’s really your definition, fair enough.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
yeah. I guess its just about the word choice and thankfully you don’t want to get into a semantics argument.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Aww man, I haven’t seen nearly enough semantics arguments this week, ha ha.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
I think you meant to say “without any WRs on the team”
HenryDawg - October 19, 2010
the average QB facing the steelers (per game) before we played them
24/37, 221 yards, .5 TDs, 1.5 INTs, 69.4 QB rating.
Colt: 23/33, 281 yards, 1 TD 2 INT, 80.5 QB rating
I could go for more stats where we performed significantly better than other QBs they faced (like Net ypa that includes sacks, yards per completion) but you get the picture, we were much better in every category when compared to their opponents.
as a last note, the steelers contained Vince Young and Josh Freeman better when they were scrambling.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I am not going to allow the shitty past of this franchise to dampen my attitude going forward. Yes, I have seen quarterbacks come and go. All of them garbage. I need hope. Without it, we have nothing left. It could blow up in my face, but guess what, today I don’t care.
Yesterday was my moment for a multitude of reasons. Starting with McCoy, Haden, the run defense, etc. But the biggie was for the 6th week in a row, we had a shot in the fourth quarter. That hasn’t happened since I was a small boy.
Think of it like this:
A rocket shoots into the sky fast. But it comes down just as fast. That was the ’07 Browns. Quick rise, quicker fall.
A plane takes a looooooong time to get going, but when it takes off, it can stay up all day long.
We are on a plane flight for the first time in a long time. The wait is a bitch, but it will be worth it. You just gotta have patience.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
One other thing really made me cringe:
Yikes!
But I appreciate the response and respect your opinion which is both impassioned and thoughtful.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
The only reason I say I enjoyed yesterday more than the Cincy win was because I saw pieces that will help us in the future yesterday. Seneca Wallace playing well in a win doesn’t mean as much to me as Colt McCoy playing well in a loss. This season is about progress to me.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
This. Just because we lost doesn’t mean we didn’t show progress/promise.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
We are not the only ones to notice how well McCoy played either. Two of my good friends are Steelers fans. Both of which kept me updated on the game of course. :) Both said that McCoy looked very good and that maybe we have found our QB.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
How McCoy looked was easily much more important to the future of the browns than the result of the game. I was thinking that going in.
I was virtually certain that the browns were going to lose, a win would have been a huge surprise. However, what Bernie and I did like was that the Browns were actually in the game well into the 4th quarter. If Stuckey doesn’t fumble that punt, we have enough time to drive down the field and put the game within 3. That is all we could have possibly asked from Colt McCoy and this team, and then some.
I think that many of us watched the game just wanting Colt McCoy’s performance to inspire some hope and to hold off a 30 point drubbing like what we took week 3 against Baltimore last year. I don’t think anyone is crazy enough to think that this game is going to be the catalyst for a playoff run this year, but there definitely isn’t any harm in being positive about the things we did see.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
this post was a positive post, so there are positive comments. the original post was about the things that are going right. if you wand to see people upset, the post-game thread is up, is it not?
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
I didn’t think the post-game thread was much better in that regard. But I also think it was probably okay to have a difference of opinion and tone here on this thread.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
I agree completely. People are allowed to have different opinions, and that should be encouraged — not ridiculed — because it leads to better discussions. If everybody is agreeing with everybody else here then we aren’t having thoughtful discussions.
There are a few people here who have too much of a mob mentality and like to gang up on someone with a different opinion than them, and unfortunately that can take away from the discourse on here. But I hope you know, and other people know, that those people should be ignored and continue giving your opinions.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Cleaned that up for yah, BB.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
I wasn’t referring just to you.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but you want to lop me in there because of my RECs (or possibly my occasional but always lighthearted jokes) but I’m probably one of the least likely (of all the daily DBN regulars) to get into a back-and-forth internet spat on this site (despite this one). Also, I don’t have a mob mentality, I go against the grain quite often here.
But, I completely understand why you really didn’t name names…
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
so like you and Bernie???
I Kid, I Kid. you guys are all right.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
HEY! ESPN is a great T.V. network! How dare you!
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Of course, I never said that — or anything close to that — but you never let facts get in the way of your comments.
Buckeye Brad - October 18, 2010
Of course not.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
it took him 3 minutes to be a hypocrite.
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
Exactly
Villeslgr - October 18, 2010
I’m sorry, that was wrong. I’m not perfect. But after a while you get tired of putting up with idiotic crap from someone all the time.
But I never said anything like that (what he said above), and anyone who read my comments knows that. I’m just tired of reading stupid rhetorts like that which just shows that he’s not paying attention to what I say. And then we have other people give him recs to egg him on.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
Dude, just ignore me. Be the bigger man and let me be a douchy teenager. I mean if I really getting to you, that’s sad. And I’d like to think saying idiotic crap is a bit much…
Oh and I definitely pay attention to what you say, much more than anyone else on here, actually.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I expect — and other people expect — intelligent football discussion on here, not teenage immaturity. Sure, we can have our fun along the way, but don’t interject idiotic comments like the ones above when people are trying to have intelligent discussions. That’s what bother me, and others. And don’t just say to ignore them because those comments lead to other responses from people, which lead to long arguments and stupid discussions (like this one).
And if you really pay attention to what I say then you wouldn’t think I said “ESPN is great TV!” because I never said that. My comments were much more thorough and not as absolute. But, of course, it’s more fun to just take an extreme position and mock me for it. And you do that all the time, not just to me but to other people as well. When someone gives a thoughtful and intelligent comment, as WR did above, instead of giving a thoughtful reply you come back with a idiotic statement just to mock or put someone down. How does that promote intelligent discussion? If you disagree with what someone is saying then gives reasons why, don’t just insult them or dismiss their comments. Those comments don’t foster the kind of discussions that we want on this blog.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
That’s all well and good but you engage in the back forth as well. You can’t stand over the pit and spit down insults while claiming superiority.
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
Listen, I understand that I’m going to be attacked and judged by people because I’m the moderator and some people don’t like that or hold things against me for something I did a long time ago. I get that, it comes with the job. But I try to point out where comment aren’t appropriate and don’t contribute to the quality discussions we have on this blog, and I usually try to do it in a helpful and sincere way — at first. After multiple discussions with the same people it does get frustrating, and sometimes I lose my cool or respond in an inappropriate manner because I’m tired of getting attacked or putting up with illogical and immature comments or people not listening to what I’m saying and responding in a way just to make cute comebacks.
But I don’t engage in back and forth to the extent of many people here, and don’t make comments in the same manner as the others I’m talking about. I know some people either can’t — or don’t want to — see the difference, and that’s okay. I’m fine with that.
What’s important to me is that I know Chris trusts me and respects my judgement, which is why he gave me this job and continues to let me do it. I know some people think I just go around doing whatever I want, but that’s not true at all. If Chris has a problem with the way I do something then he’ll let me know, but until then I’ll continue doing this job to the best of my abilities and try to keep the discussions on this blog to an intelligent level and keep them relevant to football.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I don’t think you go around doing whatever you want. I do feel that sometimes comments come across as a do what I say not as I do type situation. I don’t think you intentionally set out to do anything, but maybe like you say might lose your cool once every 6 months or something. The thing is, that in that instance, your commentsare coming from a Mod and are going to carry a bit more weight than a random SB or whoever insult.
I apologize for the comment that got deleted and hopefully we can get back to discussing football, or at least Hitler.
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
Thank you. And I apoligize if I have gone out of line in any manner.
So, back to football and Hitler . . . what would he do about helmet-to-helmet hits?
Buckeye Brad - October 20, 2010
depends on who was being hit w/ the helmets…
DontCallMeJoey - October 20, 2010
Probably Hitler.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
Interesting to see that you feel certain RECs are degrading the quality of this blog. I’m sure you feel that’s not the case with any of your RECs however.
(For the record, I only REC’d SB’s first response because I agree’d that their was a lot wrong with WR’s statement. He’s entirely welcome by me to have his opinion just as I am to disagree with it. The biggest issue I had with the comment was making a point against an extremely exaggerated stance that didn’t actually reflect the feelings of anyone that is positive about McCoy’s play.)
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
I thought the same exact thing.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I honestly don’t care how many recs I get for any comment. I know I can make a cheap joke and get a lot of recs any time I want, but that doesn’t matter to me. There are people here whose opinion and thoughts I respect, and it’s their opinions that matter to me. I don’t need to get recs to make myself feel good or that I’m doing something right.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I’m a rec whore.
golanbatrac - October 19, 2010
rec
StuckInPa - October 20, 2010
No! You’re giving him what he wants . . . .
Buckeye Brad - October 20, 2010
I just can’t resist him!
bross09 - October 20, 2010
You missed the point entirely. I wasn’t referring to the RECs your comments receive, I was referring to the ones that you dish out. I was pointing out how I was sure that you feel they, of course, are not guilty of degrading the quality of this blog, but others are.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
Where is this mob that wants JaMarcus Russell, Jay Cutler, Antonio Cromartie, Albert Haynesworth and Shawne Merriman? Thought we got hosed on the BE and Quinn trades?
I am pretty sure NO ONE ever really agrees with me. But then again, that is what makes DBN fun.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
Hahaha, I thought this was really funny.
Simmsinns - October 20, 2010
for the record, I would totally be down with Cutler or Haynesworth.
notthatnoise - October 20, 2010
Cutler could actually be a quarterback behind the Browns’ offensive line. Well, pretty much behind any line other than the one he has.
woodsmeister - October 20, 2010
The poor bastard won’t make it out alive.
Bernie19Kosar - October 20, 2010
That line combined with Martz’ offense is a recipe to end Cutler’s career.
rufio - October 20, 2010
His name is Mooncamping, and he is many.
North Coast Flea - October 20, 2010
I’d be on the Cromartie and Merriman bandwagons. But I think we have had some very lengthy and heated disagreements on BE and Cutler.
Ryan Kelsey - October 20, 2010
What are you referring to? A rec? An agreement?
What is this ganging up? I seriously want to know specifically. Also, how about you name names so they can respond with their thoughts?
If it’s what I think it is, you’re guilty of the same thing just as often as everyone else.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
So now my comment gets deleted? Do I get a warning as well?
Villeslgr - October 18, 2010
No one must evoke the wrath of Big Brother…
Just as a weird coincidence… Big Brother-BB. Weird.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
was it on this thread? I don’t remember seeing anything that was bad enough to get deleted.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
It’s not a big deal. It was non-football related.
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
oh…thats all.
bross09 - October 19, 2010
Any comment using the f-word gets deleted. You know that.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I didn’t use the f word. I specifically put in all characters from above the numbers. I know that foul language would get deleted which is why i didn’t type the word. It was a stream of about 8 or 9 characters. But it was off topic so that’s fine that it’s gone.
Villeslgr - October 19, 2010
Seriously, he deleted something like f&*k? That’s stupid.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
oh no! this is getting deleted too!!
bross09 - October 19, 2010
I’m not trying to antagonize at all, but I’m not sure that’s entirely true.
Dawg Nuts - October 19, 2010
God forbid you antagonize, hate to be lumped in the “to be ignored” group.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
Uh oh.
You’re now off the Mrs. BB Christmas fruitcake list…
(thank God, right?)
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Seriously? Are these kind of comments really necessary?
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I thought it was a funny, clean joke. Sorry.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
I thought it was hilarious. Nothing against you, BB.
emily522 - October 19, 2010
Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted your statement. I thought it was another shot at me.
In any case, can you please stop taking personal jabs at me all the time and stick to talking football? I get it, you don’t like me. Fine. You don’t need to remind me every five minutes. Nobody else wants to read those comments. (And I get that your comment above wasn’t meant to be like that, but I’m referring to other ones.)
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
I’ll do my best but if one slips on accident, my bad, there’s no delete button and rarely do I ever use the preview button, so just a disclaimer.
SpecialBrownie - October 19, 2010
Well, we try. We don’t always see everything.
Buckeye Brad - October 19, 2010
fair enough.
notthatnoise - October 18, 2010
Combined record of teams we’ve faced thus far: 20-10.
Combined record of teams in our next four games: 16-6.
Pretty damn brutal.
DisplacedBuckeye - October 18, 2010
In good news, we do face Carolina and Buffalo in a 3-game stretch after that.
DisplacedBuckeye - October 18, 2010
GREAT POST! You hit the very things I was feeling about this past Sunday
I did one better, I watched the first hour, DVR the rest, and practiced with my daughter for her soccer quarterfinals for two hours. I was bracing for the worst, but man what a show! Not pretty. Not Kosaresque. But the kid will be alright!
Ed Hooper - October 18, 2010
ESPN Insider is reporting that Shaun Rogers is on the trading block at the moment.
sleepy042 - October 18, 2010
As much as I like him, for some reason he just isn’t being Shaun Rogers this year. I’d like to get him to a winner in exchange for a WR.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Age + Rubin
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
He’s still valuable though, which is why I think we can get something good from him. I think it could be Lee Evans.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
I have no idea what his value might be, but I’m hoping it’s decent enough to land a good piece or pick.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
What pick do you think we could get out of Shaun? 2nd?
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Mid to high 2nd me thinks.
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Too old, too fat. Hasn’t done anything in nearly a year. I’ll be stoked if we get a third for him.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
Never underestimate other GM’s stupidity. Especially Buffalo who is desperate for talent…
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
and desperate for bodies up front. they have probably the worst D-Line in the league, have only 2 sacks from their D-Line, and rank 32nd on football outsider’s rankings of stuffing the run (getting to the RB behind the LOS). they are trotting up career backups, and undersized guys for a 3-4.
I can definitely see them doing it coupled with them being the bills and stupid.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I think you are right. I see a 3rd rounder coming back. Maybe a 3rd and a lower pick.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
First Start Stats of the Greats:
troy145 - October 18, 2010
Interesting stats, thanks Troy
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Also doesn’t account for the strength of the defense, or the fact that both INTs where tipped balls, one of which slipped right out of the receivers bread basket, the other of which was in a 4th qtr must score situation.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
On the flip side, the steelers were devoting a good amount of resources to stopping the run.
rufio - October 18, 2010
True.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Brady Quinn in 2007: 23/35, 239, 2 TDs 0 Ints
Jamarcus Russell (first start): 23/31, 224, 1 TD, 1 INT
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Devils Advocate? You are right, he could still go either way. I guess we’ll just have to watch and see over the next few games.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Well done, Bross.
Look at Montana: 5/12, 36 yards. He would go on to do nothing.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
yeah. I am all for giving colt a shot bun annointing him with other greats after one game is ridiculous in my mind. I mean Quinn had a QB rating over 100 in his first start.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
What’s a shot bun?
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
I think that was supposed to be the word But.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Difference being it wasn’t the Steelers, he had B.E., Winslow and maybe Jurevicious?
SpecialBrownie - October 18, 2010
Yes, there are a lot of variables. But the most important one right now is: 1. That’s Colt McCoy’s current sample size for games played.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
This.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
Everyone knows this.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Wonderful.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
/Glass half full
/Glass half empty
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
Its a GLASS! Hey, everybody! The Browns have a glass, and it holds water!
9James - October 18, 2010
Still leaks, just not as bad as it used to
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
I certainly didn’t mean to assert that McCoy is a HOF lock. I just thought it was interesting to compare. Satisfies a kind of “academic curiosity.” I didn’t mean to insist anything by posting those stats, I actually lifted them from some other article, thus the quote box.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
yeah. its interesting for academic curiousity but thats it IMO. anything more, and its irrelevant.
bross09 - October 18, 2010
well played
sleepy042 - October 18, 2010
I really am interested in watching this game. I hope NFL network shows it, Here in Delaware we got the Eagles-Falcons and that game sucked.
This is the most promising post in a long time. I am praying this is a start to a quarterback we can call a team leader. McCoy’stats were way ahead of what I ever thought they would be. It seems as though they Browns hung in a long time against the Steelers in a hard to win place. I am not saying McCoy is the savior, but it seems he is something to consider as a real option.
Of all the quarterback play this year was Colt McCoy’s performance the best of the year? Is he a starter in this league for the Browns? (anyone who watched the game, please comment) Thanks
champion64 - October 18, 2010
I really hope Colt starts. If H&H are even thinking about taking a QB in the first, we need to see if Colt has any potential as our future starter.
I think he’ll start though.
emily522 - October 18, 2010
Thank ytou
champion64 - October 18, 2010
I dislike that it’s "depending on the health of Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace."
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
could that just be more of Mangini’s QB mind-games though? I know he doesn’t enjoy naming his starter for the week.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
Valid point.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Junior Seau had a busy night.
golanbatrac - October 18, 2010
A busy night of not trying to kill himself via driving right off a cliff hours after being arrested for allegedly attacking his 25-year-old girlfriend.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
he drove off the cliff unintentionally.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
There is a not in my comment, pointing out it’s what he wasn’t trying to do.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
i was just joking due to the “Harrison hit defense” from yesterday, but i get ya. my bad.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
Ah yes, I see it now. It’s often hard to get that across through typing.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Dear H&H: Trade Eric Wright and Shaun Rogers for picks.
jaws. - October 18, 2010
… Or a competent WR, perhaps?
shep615 - October 19, 2010
Unrelated: After a tough weekend, I’m pumped for some MNF, despite already having my fantasy game locked up.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I need 7 points from Scobee to win, so I’m excited as well.
da36chamberz - October 18, 2010
My money league I have CJ, MJD, Kenny Britt and Rob Bironas going.
I’m down 42 points. I need a RB battle.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I’d love to see them trade punches tonight. CJ breaking a huge run, then MJD, the CJ again. Something real badass to brighten up this Monday night.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
How about a carbon copy of last season’s game?
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I’d take that. I loved that last season (owned them both), first two draft picks.
By the way, how did you manage to pull of getting them both this season?!?
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Keeper league.
Bit the bullet last season and traded Manning, Steven Jackson and Sidney Rice for CJ. Still think it was worth it.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
Good lord, that’s a lot even with the Rice injury. And with CJ facing the kind of defenses he is… I think you might have lost that one. Also Manning is as consistent as ever.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
You can only keep two guys a season.
Mine were CJ and MJD. If we could have kept more than two, I would agree with you.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
When was this trade made?
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Mid-season.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I see. I still can only give you the edge in this one because Rice was knocked out for so much of this season.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Good Luck!
champion64 - October 18, 2010
Not a bad start for ya at all!
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
christ how many teams are in your money league?. How did you get CJ and MJD?
jaws. - October 18, 2010
10 team keeper league. It has been going on for years. You can keep a guy for three straight seasons. The guy who has AP is on year three. We are going to have massive tanking in a couple weeks.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
by that you mean he trades him and doesn’t get jack in return?
bross09 - October 18, 2010
I’m just glad I don’t have to watch the God-forsaken NFC play tonight. If it wasn’t for the AFC, I wouldn’t watch pro ball.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
I need Britt to have negative receiving yards and to lose a few fumbles. Or just not do anything at all.
troy145 - October 18, 2010
Boo!
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I’ve already won my fantasy league game, but if Nate Washington can have a killer night it would make me feel even better.
Kimble_79 - October 18, 2010
By the way, despite Colt showing some promise, I wanted to recommend to Chris that the gameball go to Reggie Hodges.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
If Hodges deserves it, so does the rest of that unit.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Yup.
North Coast Flea - October 18, 2010
A gameball to Hodges is symbolic for the whole unit.
Roger Dorn - October 18, 2010
Great point, I’m on the gameball to Hodges bandwagon!
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
I’d second that. Unbelievable job. True, the coverage was good, too, but he was sticking them inside the five yard line. Superb.
Western Reserve - October 18, 2010
No doubt.
Bernie19Kosar - October 18, 2010
I’m a little disappointed my stream isn’t the Brits tonight. Oh well.
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
Thanks for this post Bernie. After watching (what I thought was) some piss poor officiating yesterday and Harrison’s play all I wanted was to see Harrison lying broken and twitching. I think I still want to see that – just karma – but I also want to see McCoy get another start to see if he can keep that poise and maybe give us a little more hope.
JustBob - October 18, 2010
My cousin just won his game with that 4th and 5 touchdown run by Chris Johnson. He came into this game down 30 points, starting CJ and Tennessee’s defense. Winning it in that situation is nuts!
Simmsinns - October 18, 2010
SAME HERE!
I was down 7 points. Won by 11. I wigged out.
Bernie19Kosar - October 19, 2010
Nice.
Simmsinns - October 19, 2010
rockeybrown beat me after being down 17 with only the titans D left to play. he won by 5.
notthatnoise - October 19, 2010
Man, I think our posts per win must be the highest of any site on the internet! I takes me forever to read these threads.
Brownsyup - October 19, 2010
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