As we approach this Sunday's contest featuring the Cleveland Browns against the Pittsburgh Steelers, each team is on opposite sides of the win/loss spectrum. The Steelers, at 3-1, are coming off of a bye week. Prior to the bye week, they were without their starting quarterback and were literally carried by their defense in two of their three victories. The Browns, at 1-4, have been a surprising team because they have been competitive in the fourth quarter of every game they've played in; that includes losses to the Buccaneers (3-1), Chiefs (3-1), Ravens (4-1), and Falcons (4-1).
Naturally then, just like the previous weeks, I expect nothing more than another competitive effort by the Browns when they travel to Pittsburgh this week. While I am not expecting a win against the Steelers this Sunday, something inside of me is actually a little more confident that we can beat Pittsburgh than the games in which I projected losses to the Ravens and the Falcons. Maybe it is just my fandom of wanting to win in the Browns/Steelers rivalry, or maybe there's something more to it...
The number of storylines in this week's rivalry game present the perfect build-up for a game of this magnitude. People outside of Cleveland and Pittsburgh might not care about this game so much, but in terms of that feeling you'll have inside of you any time a big play or a score is made, it'll be more intense than in any other game thus far this season.
In order to make this easier to read on the eyes, let's go to bullet point form to highlight the storylines this week:
- Browns Are the Team to Beat: When these two teams last met (in Cleveland) in Week 14 last season, the Browns stunned the Steelers with a 13-6 victory. Cleveland's top two rushers had a combined 160 yards rushing against Pittsburgh. That involved Joshua Cribbs picking up yards in chunks from the Wildcat, and Chris Jennings pushing forward behind our offensive line for a steady 3.7 YPC average. The Browns featured no passing game, but that running attack was enough to muster 13 first-half points and drain time off the clock (with a 5+ minute drive) in the fourth quarter.
The Steelers were taken aback offensively when Ben Roethlisberger was sacked 8 times. The Browns sent pressure from a lot of different areas, as six different players notched sacks, led by Marcus Benard with two. For all the misery Cleveland had been through last year, Eric Mangini, Rob Ryan, and Brian Daboll found a way to beat Pittsburgh. The Steelers won't be lacking confidence when they face Cleveland, but they are the ones trying to seek revenge this week.
- Roethlisberger Returns: Without Ben Roethlisberger under center the first couple of games, the Steelers were led by, with the exception of one game from Charlie Batch against the Buccaneers, lackluster play at the quarterback position. Their receivers didn't have many opportunities to shine either; if you look at the stats, it makes the Steelers' receivers look as if they aren't producing. In four games, Hines Ward has just 12 catches for 165 yards. Mike Wallace has 9 catches for 211 yards.
The lack of a solid passing game forced the Steelers to go to their running game, where Rashard Mendenhall has more than delivered with 89 carries for 411 yards (4.6 YPC) and 4 touchdowns.
Roethlisberger has looked good in practice, but who wouldn't after having Batch and Dixon? There's no doubt that the Steelers are a better team with Big Ben back under center, but it can't be assumed that he'll step in and dominate the Browns' defense. While Wallace is a more than capable deep threat, he's playing without Santonio Holmes this year, a guy who had become a favorite target of his the past few years.
Roethlisberger has had two weeks to prepare for this game, but fans have often complained with the gameplan of offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. Is he going to be able to find a balance between getting Roethlisberger acclimated to the passing game again, while still getting Mendenhall enough touches to make sure he stays hot? Roethlisberger loves to take off and scramble around to improvse a play -- will his instincts work to the Browns' advantage in his first game back? On one hand, if you're Cleveland's defense, you wish Big Ben had still been suspended for six games, but on the other hand, you're still facing him in a game in which he could be rusty.
- Another Debut at Quarterback: On the other side of the spectrum, you have Colt McCoy projected to make his first start as a member of the Cleveland Browns. This is a rough situation for McCoy to be thrown in to, since he hasn't had much work with the first-team offense. That should also work to his benefit in terms of what we saw in the preseason though. He played with an offensive line that I wouldn't wish on anyone, which really made it difficult to gauge his abilities.
In an ideal gameplan, McCoy's throws should be kept to a minimum, with a heavy dose of Peyton Hillis, Joshua Cribbs, and Mike Bell or James Davis. However, I'm not so sure that will be the case, because it would seem to require changing Brian Daboll's gameplan up to this point in the season. I mean, with Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace under center, did you really anticipate through five games that the Browns would be averaging 32.4 pass attempts per game despite having fourth quarter leads in most of their contests? To contrast, the Browns have been running it an average of 26.6 times per game. When the Browns went run-heavy with Hillis against Baltimore, there were 35 runs vs. 30 passes. We could very well see the same thing this week, which means McCoy might just see a lot more action than expected.
Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Something in the middle? The answer is, we have no idea considering the circumstances. The one thing we know is that if McCoy delivers a win against the Steelers (note: not a "Brady Quinn" win), he'll have taken down the best of the best and will become an immediate hero.
- Peyton Hillis vs. Troy Polamalu: Whether he is banged up or not, we'll see a healthy dose of Peyton Hillis. Hillis made headlines when he drove the safeties of the Baltimore Ravens back, but this week he goes against the best: Troy Polamalu. The Browns had the benefit of not facing Polamalu or defensive end Aaron Smith in their victory last season. Polamalu is the ultimate playmaker, but I am dying to see Hillis collide with him one-on-one to see what happens.
Regarding how well other teams have run the ball against the Steelers, here is how their defense has fared:
The Browns usually favor running the ball in these areas, as expected:
The Browns should target the Steelers along the right side, where they seem prone to giving up a little bit more room to run. Hillis' and Bell's power might be enough to move that "average" a little higher if they fall forward on their runs.
- Mike Bell Factor: We already debated the benefits of Jerome Harrison vs. Mike Bell in another thread, so that's not the issue here. The point to bring up is that Peyton Hillis toughed out a performance last week against the Falcons but doesn't seem to be 100%. If he needs to be taken out as often as he was last week, the Browns don't really need a "change of pace" back. That's where Bell can jump in and ideally pick up right where Hillis left off.
The issue with Bell is that when he is in the game, he's not accustomed to catching the ball, and I'm sure the Steelers know that. Or, as a counter argument, you could say that works to our advantage. Bell did catch 20 passes for 158 yards in his rookie season in Denver, and if he's left uncovered as an afterthought on a pass play, McCoy certainly won't hesitate to dump the ball off to him.
- Ward Meets Ward: On one side, you have the Steelers' Hines Ward, one of the most physical receivers in the game who loves to hit people as if he was a defender. On the other side, you have the Browns' T.J. Ward, who received publicity for his hit on receiver Jordan Shipley a few weeks ago. Is there any chance we'll see T. Ward plow into H. Ward this Sunday? We can only hope. There's nothing better than seeing Hines without a smile on his face:
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Division Implications: The Browns currently have a 1-4 record, and a win would move them to 2-4. When they made the postseason nearly a decade ago, they were a competitive team and also started with a 2-4 record. Cleveland already has one division win under their belt, and a second one would certainly start to create some buzz.
Pittsburgh, on the other hand, can't afford another division loss after having already fallen to the Baltimore Ravens in Pittsburgh.
There's no doubt that both teams are going to be in for an intense battle this weekend, and I'm anticipating another close game that comes down to the wire. I'll save my official prediction for Saturday, but here's a teaser: Colt McCoy will have the ball in his hands with the chance to lead a game-winning drive. Can the Browns pull off the upset and send Pittsburgh to their second consecutive loss of the season and against Cleveland? We certainly hope so.
Note: Please refrain from posting the Roethlisberger name jokes, which have gotten a bit old and detract from the discussion.
Doubt it. I expect it to be almost 100% Benny again.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
Chris, you’re quite the optomist. I think this is going to be an ugly, ugly loss for the Browns. I’m thinking something along the lines of 34-3. Playing against that defense in a stadium full of ugly, black-bearded Steeler fans wearing Rothlisberger jerseys with a rookie QB? Not good.
Boomhauer - October 14, 2010
Optimism is imperative for me when writing for the Browns. I doubt Browns fans want to read me do a post of this length citing why we’ll get killed 34-3 ;)
Chris Pokorny - October 14, 2010
I’m pretty sure the site isn’t called “Puppies Roll Over and Play Dead By Nature” or PRODBN for short.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
This made me crack up. Rec.
emily522 - October 14, 2010
Rec, but it would be PROPDBN
Andrew Tolliver - October 14, 2010
Indeed, thank you.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
PROPs for that one
bross09 - October 14, 2010
the team hasn’t shown us anything in the first 5 games that would lead me to believe we’re gonna get blown out. there are many more reasons to feel this game will be competitive and close into the 4th quarter.
Dawg Nuts - October 14, 2010
Right on. Herm Edwards mentioned that the best plan of attack against Pittsburgh is to come out throwing on 1st down to avoid ending up in 3rd and longs where their defense bring the house. The Browns have been doing a pretty good job of this the past few games. Obviously the big X factor here is who is under center making those throws.
Monsters of the Midway - October 14, 2010
im calling an upset here, 23-17! the dawgs take 2 in a row against the steelers!
findlaybrownslover - October 14, 2010
I was thinking 20-17, Dawson winning at the end of the game. STillers Suck
Red-Right-88 - October 15, 2010
Are you out of your kibbles,haven’t you caught on yet? This is a football TEAM. This is the best Browns team since our rebirth, this is the toughest, hardest hitting, most together team we’ve had in a long time. OK We’ve had some injury problems lately, but, the person that steps in, is of the same mind, and finds a way. There is no quit, in this TEAM. So as FANS, Open your eyes and see whats happening. YOU FOLKS THAT LIVE IN CLEVELAND (SUPPORT,SUPPORT, SUPPORT,) ALL YOUR TEAMS
dawginhouston - October 15, 2010
A pretty cool link for McCoy & skeet shooting. The fact that McCoys ball speed is 56 mph is something i think i am gonna look up & compare.
sleepy042 - October 14, 2010
Interesting. Here’s a page I found explaining the implications of a QB’s ball speed more fully. The author claims that Flacco was timed at 58 MPH at his combine, which was an NFL record. If Colt really throws it at 56 MPH, you’d think that would at least make him above-average in terms of arm strength. Yet every scout out there knocked Colt’s arm pre-raft. What’s up with the incongruence?
Cap'n Snegiryov - October 15, 2010
I smell Physics.
Villeslgr - October 16, 2010
Oh noes!
North Coast Flea - October 17, 2010
You forgot this one…
Andrew Tolliver - October 14, 2010
A thing of beauty…
browndawgbacker - October 14, 2010
this is what hines is going to be doing before the game after remembering he has to go over the middle or just being covered by the WARDEN!!
findlaybrownslover - October 14, 2010
Bleacher Report's top 10 Brown-Steelers games
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/491223-breaking-down-the-rivalry-the-ten-best-browns-steelers-games-of-all-time
Gonna be a good one this Sunday- can’t effing wait. Bye weeks are zzzzzzzzzz
SteelersVT - October 14, 2010
I guess mine was too raunchy then?
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
It went against the disclaimer I put at the bottom of my post originally, lol (maybe you missed it).
Chris Pokorny - October 14, 2010
Well, damn.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
Fixed.
woodsmeister - October 14, 2010
Well, he was voted the leagues dirtiest player by other players
Steel Spike - October 14, 2010
He will be head hunted on Sunday, defenseless receiver rule or not. I’m sure Haden and Boss Ward are dying to meet him (over the center).
browndawgbacker - October 14, 2010
I’m more focused on Haden being in position to grab the tip off H.Ward’s lifeless fingers as T.J. cracks him.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
I’d kinda like to see us make Hines Ward cry because we came in and beat them in their house fair and square. That would be sweet.
shep615 - October 14, 2010
I’d be just as happy if he cried because we came in a beat them by cheating.
Joel D - October 14, 2010
Maybe we get lucky with a team looking past us and a rusty Ben. Otherwise, I think we lose by 10. Who knows, this could be the start of something good.
jerseywahoo - October 14, 2010
I highly doubt the Steelers are looking past this week. This is the game everyone had circled on their schedule before the season. And I definitely do not think Tomlin, Ben, etc forgot about the last meeting.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
The Browns stomped a mudhole in Roeth’s azz last time.
JulioBernazard - October 14, 2010
Good thing our OL is 60% different with a new OL coach.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
turnover isn’t always a good thing. for comparison see the browns of the last decade.
9James - October 14, 2010
In the case of Justin Hartwig vs Maurkice Pouncey…good would be an understatement.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
And?
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
They are better. It’s like you are constantly looking to ruffle people’s feathers.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
Because you guys are far too overly optimistic about everything and always shows signs of cognitive dissonance. It’s extremely annoying.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
It is clear after 4 games that the Steelers offensive line is significantly better than last year. It is certainly due to some combination of the 60% turnover and the new offensive line coach.
Now you can call it overly optimistic. I prefer to call it watching four games and drawing obvious conclusions.
Po-tae-to – po-tah-to
worldtrip - October 14, 2010
Its also clear that our Pass rush is improved and our secondary has improved. your guys’ point?
bross09 - October 14, 2010
How was I being overly optimistic? He said they stomped Ben last year, which is true. In fact, a lot of teams did that. Ben was sacked 2nd most in the league and missed a game. Therefore, I am very glad that our OL has changed personnel and the coach.
I am not sure how that displays cognitive dissonance either.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
I meant overall, not just in that one comment. Sorry for the confusion.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
There are certainly Steelers fans, and in particular on BTSC, who can see no wrong with the team. There are also quite a few, more than the former, who bitch and moan when the team doesn’t do everything perfectly, and will tend to focus quite highly on all the negatives associated with the team
However, in this particular instance, I would hazard a guess that you have been dealing with some of the more level headed and balanced Steelers fans that you might encounter.
The Steelers have a very good team this year, and all indications are that Roethlisberger, at the age of 28, is now in his prime, and that his suspension may very well end up being the best thing that could have happened to him and the team.
We are extremely optimistic about the team, and frankly, it is with good reason. It is a well coached team with tremendous talent at multiple positions, and an outstanding mix of youth and veterans. Barring any significant injuries to key players, there is every reason to think that they have an excellent chance to make a run at another super bowl.
worldtrip - October 14, 2010
During the offseason I would’ve disagreed but now, that argument really holds no water, except I will never believe Ben will learn his lesson. He’ll just either get better at covering it up or get caught again.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
Re Ben
Perhaps. We shall see.
worldtrip - October 14, 2010
JulioBernazard - October 14, 2010
What is the consensus on Ben with the Steeler fans?
Is it more of a third strike kind of thing? Is he on his last chance with the fans? Do you expect him to be booed Sunday?
Bernie19Kosar - October 14, 2010
I would say that yes this a third strike situation for a large portion of the fans, but most impotantly it is with the Rooneys. I do not expect there to be many boos on Sunday though. I think most fans are optimistic this was a wake up call and are ready to move on.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I honestly didn’t realize there was a history here. Now I’m curious, what were the first two strikes?
9James - October 15, 2010
Wasn’t one of them a motorcycle accident?
shep615 - October 15, 2010
I’m thinking the Las Vegas incident.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Yeah, apparently Ben gets four strikes, cause he’s a WINNER!
North Coast Flea - October 15, 2010
Riding a motorcycle and getting hit by a car is a strike?
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
When you’re riding it like a jackass and putting your life in jeopardy, then yeah.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Tell me what you know about the accident.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I know he was hit, but riding without a helmet is jackassery. He’s lucky he’s not a turnip.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Isn’t riding a motorcycle a no-no for NFL players? Or is that just something specific to each player’s contract?
shep615 - October 15, 2010
Pretty sure it’s contract.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
It was not in his contract
And a woman turned across his lane. Not wearing a helmet is stupid, but its not a strike.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Never said it was in his contract. Never said he shouldn’t have been riding. No helmet = no brain.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
To be fair though, he didn’t have a motorcycle license. That is a lack in judgement.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2010
To be honest, I think riding a motorcycle in and of itself is stupid. However, he was only putting himself at risk, which is not a strike.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I would consider it a strike, he was breaking the law. the fact that it wasn’t in his contract means nothing. he was riding without a license and without a helmet.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
That’s like giving a player a strike for fishing without a license or riding without a seat belt. Who cares?
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
…Wow. This is one of the stupidest comments I’ve ever heard.
Because fishing without a license clearly equals riding a motorcycle without a license and a lot of people care about people not wearing seatbelts.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
How did you hear my printed comment? And I could say the same about the majority of your comments being what I believe is stupid.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
You love yourself some semantics.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Ah, beautiful. This is where you’ve figured out your argument is complete crap and now you need to attack my comment from the surface and change the subject over so you don’t look like an idiot.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
No, my argument is fine. I just found it hilarious that you said you heard it.
I think you all are just so anti-Steeler that you disagree with anything I say.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
No, my best friend is a Steeler fan. I’m just anti – idiot.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I do not know you site rules, but I assume personal attacks are against the rules. Please refrain from arguing like a middle-schooler.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
DUDE, QUIT BEING HYPOCRITICAL IT’S DRIVING ME INSANE!
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I’m not. But you need help if someone on the internet is affecting your mental state that much.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
The only thing I can appreciate about all this though, is that you are basically a microcosm of the Steeler fanbase in general. You lose an argument and then try to embarrass the other through semantics and then you act like tough shit.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
How did I act like tough shit? And I don’t recall losing the argument. It wasn’t a strike. You can argue that you think it was, but it wasn’t.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I’m done.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
honestly, that is what I have noticed with this invasion. many steelers fans have a semantics fetish
bross09 - October 15, 2010
you’re crazy. all i face here is semantics and then people playing stupid when you call them out on it
klompus - October 16, 2010
wait…isn’t that what some of the steelers fans coming over are doing? like Johnny S?
bross09 - October 16, 2010
you know who cares? the people writing Ben’s checks. his teammates that depend on him playing. his family that I’m sure don’t want to see him killed.
You aren’t being objective here, which is understandable. I probably wouldn’t be objective if this was Joe Thomas we were talking about.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
It was basically the same situation with Winslow and it was incredibly stupid then and still now.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
yeah, Winslow was an idiot.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
and I am assuming even though his idiocy may not have been on Roethlisberger level (I believe he had a license), it was still a strike.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
I’m late to the party, but I think Winslow’s idiocy went to another level because he was trying to do tricks in a parking lot on a bike he had just purchased (inexperienced biker i believe?).
Villeslgr - October 16, 2010
What does his family have anything to do with it being a strike for playing for the Steelers?
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
that wasn’t the question. you asked me who cared. follow your own argument please, or we’ll never get anywhere.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Please be relevant or we will never get anywhere.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Holy shit, what?
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Now, I said “holy shit,what” because this is so hypocritical it almost made me shit my pants.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Your shit is holy?
Steel Spike - October 15, 2010
how was I being irrelevant? I gave you a direct response to your question. you asked who cared if Ben didn’t wear a helmet, and i told you.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
So we can all agree that he is just plain stupid?
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
No, he’s way beyond stupid.
JulioBernazard - October 15, 2010
The strike
is him being seen doing it again after the initial accident and breaking his promise that he would not do it again.
tubway - October 15, 2010
Without a helmet, yes.
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
You’re talking about Steelers’ fans being overly optimistic on a thread where half us Browns’ fans are predicting a win. Dude, seriously?
StuckInPa - October 14, 2010
I don’t see a lot of us predicting a win. I see a lot of us hoping we don’t get blown out and people making stupid assumptions for an upset.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
+1
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I think fans have an obligation to be somewhat optimistic. And that’s not too difficult as a Browns fan really, since a lesser Cleveland Browns team beat the Steelers once last year.
9James - October 15, 2010
Good thing our DC is the same guy, and the Browns drafted well for the secondary.
JulioBernazard - October 14, 2010
I’ll bet you don’t get 8 sacks again.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
12!
StuckInPa - October 14, 2010
I’d definitely bet you don’t get 12 sacks, considering it’s happened only once since 1985.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I’m pretty sure it was a joke.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Thanks. I couldn’t tell.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
you sure are one sarcastic guy.
You responded as if he was serious. that’s generally not what people do when responding to a joke.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Apparently.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
apparently, you’re terrible with social interactions.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Internet banter is barely a social interaction.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
jokes are told in real life too. how long has it beem since you’ve talked to someone who wasn’t on a computer?
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I dunno, 5 minutes ago?
Jokes in print are far different from jokes in verbal communication.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
you seem to struggle with that concept.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
so the funnies confuse you too?
bross09 - October 15, 2010
How did I miss this yesterday. That’s funny brossy.
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
You see that little “x” at the top of your screen? That’s the virtual door. Go ahead and leave anytime you wish.
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2010
okay, 11.
davus - October 15, 2010
Same numbers.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
You did it again!
HenryDawg - October 15, 2010 via mobile
and our pass rush is different, improved, healthier, and more experienced in the system and our secondary is also improved.
I think the jury is still out on what this O-Line can do against the browns D who has excelled this year at getting into the backfield.
bross09 - October 14, 2010
I’m saying you are not going to get 8 sacks. We gave up 4 to the best pass rush team in the league, Titans, who have more than double the sacks the Browns do. I wasn’t arguing that your pass rush is not good, I was just saying I am happy that our OL is not the same as last year.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Ben has to be accounted in this, he dances around trying to make plays and adds to the sack total.
North Coast Flea - October 15, 2010
That is true, we’ve had that debate on BTSC many times.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
yes. but the 8 sacks was more of a freak occurrance. I am not sure yet if the line is that good. Plus, like NCF said, we haven’t factored in the big ben factor.
You also gave up 3 sacks to an atlanta team who has about as good of a pass rush as the browns. The browns have also faced some of the best pass blocking teams so far, so I don’t see it unreasonable for the browns to get 4 or more now that ben is back.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
I would say 3 or 4 is a good guess. I only see more than that happening if Ben comes out really rusty.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
even if he comes back on top of his game, 4 seems extremely likely and 5-6 seems like a total possibility.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
All the logic in the world isn’t going to stop us from wanting 12 sacks.
JustBob - October 15, 2010
Isn’t kinda hard to forget about getting sacked 8 times in a game?
Andrew Tolliver - October 14, 2010
This is the only game so far this season I know the Browns have absolutely zero shot at winning. So what can be expected? Maybe getting out of the game without any major injuries? McCoy leading a sucessful drive or two during the game, or the defense keeping the Steeler offense with less than 21 points? A 20-10 or 17-10 loss would still a big positive for the Browns. a 30-3 or 31-7 blowout is a what I think they need to avoid especially this week.
champion64 - October 14, 2010
Every team has a chance in the NFL, but, yeah, signs are not pointing up for the Browns in this particular contest.
worldtrip - October 14, 2010
Please excuse the mixed metaphor
worldtrip - October 14, 2010
Actually I don’t think it’ll be a blow out.
As long as the Browns try to keep the offense on the field as long as possible each possesion, not let Hillis kill himself but throw a lot of 6/7 yard slants/outs, they may keep themselves in it.
Our defense is decent & Benny is gonna be rusty on his timing, let Ryan get creative & aggressive on D, we stand a good shot.
Groza - October 14, 2010
unfortunately, i have to agree. i’m more concerned about getting stomped in this game than i have been in any other game this season. just has all the makings of a beat down by the steelers.
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2010
I say nay!!! We have them outnumbered no matter how many of them there are!!!
sleepy042 - October 14, 2010
Most of your opinions suck, especially this one. We’ve played hard against some of the better teams in the NFL so far. There’s no reason to believe we won’t once again lose a game in the final seconds.
StuckInPa - October 14, 2010
i don’t want to spend too much time as a pessimist here, but there are plenty of reasons to think we’ll get dump trucked:
- quarterbacks
- hillis’ thigh
- our receivers suck
- their defense is awesome
i’m hoping like crazy that they keep fighting and make this one close, but i have a hard time seeing it (the close part, that is).
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2010
reasons why it will be close:
-Our Defense is awesome
-Our Offensive line Sucks (which can hide RB/QB deficiencies)
-We have played close every game
-They have played some of the same teams as us and outside of their route of Tampa Bay, we have done just about as well against the opponents
-McCoy will most likely not turn it over as much as Delhomme
bross09 - October 14, 2010
I’m not so sure about that last point, but we’ll see!
Brownie's Year - October 14, 2010
What?
StuckInPa - October 14, 2010
oops…thats not what I meant. I was thinking it can hide our RB/QB sucking. our OL is pretty damn good.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Joe Thomas will punish you accordingly.
shep615 - October 15, 2010
Like he punished John Abraham? Too soon?
jaws. - October 15, 2010
Blasphemy.
shep615 - October 15, 2010
The pain-train’s a comin, and it’s loaded with hot syrupy pancakes.
North Coast Flea - October 15, 2010
one bad game and all of the sudden he’s a chump? I’d suggest you remind yourself from where our pancakes are buttered.
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
look, man, i sure as hell hope you’re right, but: our o-line has not been good this year, w/o big ben you really can’t put much on the comparable opponent performance, and there is literally zero way you can say w/ any certainty that mccoy’s TOs will be different than delhomme’s.
and their defense is ridiculous.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
but that’s the end of my pessimism. i really hope i’m wrong.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
I wholeheartedly disagree. We are 7th in sack rate, 4th in running in short yardage situations, and 9th at getting positive yardage on each play (keeping the D out of the backfield). I would say we have a top 10 O-Line at the worst.
With McCoy. I have no way I can say that. That is just what I believe. That is why I said he most likely will not. I don’t think he will. The rest is fact however.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
And we’re first in the league in broken quarterbacks. The line hasn’t been very good.
golanbatrac - October 15, 2010
That’s a coincidence masquerading as a statistic, which I’m sure you know.
9James - October 15, 2010
exactly. wallace’s injury for one looked like a freak occurrance and delhomme’s first injury may have partially been brought on by himself (dunno if he gets hurt if he just holds onto the ball)
bross09 - October 15, 2010
would you like to bet?
champion64 - October 14, 2010
I’m not betting anything. My point is that I think Colt can do what Seneca can, and Hillis should be healthy by Sunday. If we can keep close to the Ravens I think we can at least keep up with the Steelers.
StuckInPa - October 14, 2010
we have played 3 of the same teams. out of those 3, 2 were close games for both us and the steelers. the steelers just barely beat Atlanta and we only lost to them because our QB had turned into a turnover machine.
bross09 - October 14, 2010
Asking Colt McCoy to go into Pittsburgh is a more than a tall task. I see the first blowout of the year. The Steelers will have a short field most of the day unless Hillis can effectively run the ball. The last thing the Browns can do is having Colt McCoy taking chanes with the football. It is just a good situation for the Steelers. I dont think it is a horrible sign for the Browns. It is just a lot to ask from a rookie quarterback with less than stellar threats to work with. If the offensive line blocks like it did against the Falcons, Josh Cribbs may end up as the quarterback. I just see a long day, and then next week we play the Saints.
champion64 - October 15, 2010
…but if the O-Line blocks like it has for the rest of the season, we will be able to pound the ball and give colt enough time to be competative IMO
bross09 - October 15, 2010
I’ll give you some points here for dispensing with the capital letters. That’s about it. You honestly think that the Steelers will take out both McCoy and Ratliff with injury?
woodsmeister - October 15, 2010
I guess I just have a problem in general understanding this mentality. Why would I continue to follow any sports teams if I had it in my head that they’d get throttled? I truly believe my team can win any game they play; if it’s against a strong opponent, even better, because I envision a greater celebration for our victory.
Any NFL team can beat any other NFL team. I believe every single week that we’ll win our game. I can’t see it any other way.
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
this is especially true in the NFL. there is no unwinnable game.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
the arizona cardinals beat the saints this year. the jags beat Indy in a miracle game. the giants won that SB. unpredictable wins definitely happen.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
This
Is what a true football fan says. To use an extremely tired cliche: On any given Sunday.
Steel Spike - October 15, 2010
It is called being realistic. The steelers are a better team than the Browns even if everyone on the Browns was healthy. Now throw in the fact the Browns are starting a rookie quarterback who was rumored to be close to being cut in preseason, and the Steelers are getting back a quarterback who is definitely in the top 10 quarterbacks in the league. Also it is in Pittsburgh, where the Browns even when they were good, and the Steelers were horrible could not win in Pittsburgh, it seems to me it is realistic to say the Browns have very little shot, and I stand by my prediction of no shot at all. I hope they make it close, it will show growth of this team. That is my hope. I cheer for the Browns as much as any of you, just being realistic.
champion64 - October 16, 2010
the rumor of McCoy being cut was never credible.
Dawg Nuts - October 16, 2010
it was to tony grossi…
bross09 - October 17, 2010
Zero shot at winning like when the Browns were a terribly disappointing 1-3, on the way to a 4-12 season facing the defending Super Bowl champions, who were 4-0 on the way to a 12-4 season? Cause if it is that kind of “zero shot”, I’ll take it.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200810130cle.htm
Ryan Kelsey - October 14, 2010
zero shot at winning, like when the browns were 1-11, the steelers had just lost to two terrible teams, and would be extra motivated to make the playoffs?
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I absolutely hate Hines Ward, but I have to say I really respect his toughness and competitiveness more than any other NFL receiver.
realmccoy - October 14, 2010
Hines Ward possess nothing of which you’ve just said.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2010
How does Hines Ward not possess toughness or competitiveness? That I have to hear.
John Stephens - October 14, 2010
the “toughness” and “competitiveness” that announcers and steeler fans like to rave about is nothing more than all of the cheap hits away from the play and after the whistle that got him voted dirtiest player by an overwhelming margin. Which is to say, he doesn’t possess either of those qualities, he’s just dirty.
notthatnoise - October 14, 2010
Ok, alright. I hate Hines Ward and his dumb ass smiling face just as much as the next guy. But you’re not giving respect where respect is due.
Hines Ward does make hits away from the whistle. I’m not sure if you’ve played football before, but when I played football as a fullback in high school, I was always told to hit my block and if possible knock him on his ass. If I put that linebacker on the ground, that’s one less person that can take down the ball carrier. Now… I’ve never played wide receiver, but our wide receivers, halfbacks, linemen, fullbacks, and tight ends were told the same thing. If you’re blocking someone, you try your hardest to put him on the ground.
I mean, I guess he plays in the NFL and not high school, so maybe the rules are different or something? But I don’t think they are… I think Hines Ward is just the toughest wide receiver out there and it pisses us off that he plays for the Steelers. And I’m guessing all those people that voted him dirtiest player were probably just pissed that a WR layed their shit out. I don’t think he’s as dirty as we like to make him out to be.
shep615 - October 15, 2010
I can’t stand Hines either but no one can claim he doesn’t bust his ass out there. It’s refreshing to see a WR who’s willing to give 100% effort when blocking (usually bigger and stronger) defenders. As a former HS tailback nothing irritated me more than when we would run a sweep and the WR gave a half assed effort at blocking the corner, who could then play contain and force the play back inside. Possible home run turned into a 5 yard gain.
That all being said, I’d love to see TJ Ward or Roth knock his head off and watch it roll down the field.
mgtbfb - October 15, 2010
LMAO. How does that mean he does not have competitiveness or toughness? That just means you do not like him and you think he plays dirty.
Also, that “overwhelming” margin was 11.6% compared to two players who got 6%. 296 players were polled so that means 34 players voted for him. Yeah, that is definitely overwhelming me.
Ward is definitely competitive and tough, as I have seen make play after play and suit up despite an injury (see SB XLIII). Ward has never been a speedy WR nor has he been on a pass heavy team (sans 2009) yet he is nearing the top of all-time WR records in almost every category. Also, Ward could have easily retired after XLIII, but being the competitor that he is, he could not bring himself to hang it up yet. That guy is fierce.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I hate Ward because he is a Steeler. He’s not dirty. I wish we had a receiver like that on our team.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
I thought about saying that last part myself, but I was afraid. I’m with you, though.
shep615 - October 15, 2010
The NFL players surveyed by Sports Illustrated beg to differ with you about Hines Ward being dirty. He is worth hating because he is a Steeler and he’s dirty. And because Steelers fans celebrate both of these facts.
woodsmeister - October 15, 2010
34 players voted him the most dirty player, if I understand correctly.
I’d guess that probably consists of DBs or LBs who are pissed that they got layed out by a WR.
shep615 - October 15, 2010
Some people forget that cleaning clocks is a part of football.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Well, memory loss can result from concussions
9James - October 15, 2010
Should they wear flags now?
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Wait- what were we talking about?
9James - October 15, 2010
Yea, but it was a random sample and not of every player in the league. The sample was large enough that you can assume the percentages would stay similar had the whole league been surveyed. Ward was the dirtiest player in the league.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2010
I'm confused
Hines looks like he showers everyday….Randy Moss on the other hand…
tubway - October 15, 2010
I laughed at this.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
cool
Trying to get somebody laughing in here…jeez. Love your sig by the way…
tubway - October 15, 2010
thank you. It’s actually from “For Whom the Bell Tolls,” if you were wondering, which is an outstanding book.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Thought that was a Metallica song ;-)
tubway - October 15, 2010
again, I laughed.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
…He just needs to get that beard shaved.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Seriously? Hines Ward isn’t dirty? The guy isn’t interested in actually straight-up blocking anyone, he just looks for defenders that aren’t paying attention and hits them in the head. Remember Daven Holly? The play was over and he brained our corner, then stood flexing over his prone body.
With approximately 1700 NFL players to choose from, over 11% of respondents called Ward the dirtiest player in the league. That’s an astonishingly high percentage, because he is an astonishingly dirty player.
Oh yeah, and he’s tough. Whatever.
Chemo - October 15, 2010
They interviewed 297 players, not 1700. 34 players and 11% is not an astonishingly high percentage.
Hines Ward hits and he hits hard, just like every other player in the NFL.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Out of 297 players, where all 1700 players are eligible? 11% is huge!
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
How does the sample size change the hugeness of a %?
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
Yeah, I don’t get that.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
out of 1700 players he got 11% of the votes, I’d count that as huge.
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
Also, if you want to extrapolate the number that means 197 players think he is the dirtiest and the other 1503 do not. That is not huge.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Yes it is. How isn’t it? Out of all the choices, 197 would choose him? That’s ridiculous.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
It really isn’t. I do not know how to make that any clearer. 11.6% is really inconsiderable, especially when two guys got 6%.
Also, to be clear 34 chose him, not 197. An extrapolation does not imply fact.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
You really have troubles with survey sizes and percentages don’t you?
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
No, I don’t. I think you might though.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Oh, clearly.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Also, this is sarcastic. I don’t think you can comprehend that so I’ll just go ahead and tell you it was.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
as someone getting a degree in statistics, let me tell you the problem is on your end.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Am I supposed to be impressed? I’m not.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
serious question, not trying to be offensive or seem condescending, but how old are you?
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Does it matter? I will let you know, that if you are just getting your degree, I am probably older than you.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Which is funny, because you’re actually 17…
Steel Spike - October 15, 2010
Next month
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
You just got outed. Go home kid.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Or did i…
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
This is an absolutely ridiculous line of conversation…
Steel Spike - October 15, 2010
It does matter. if you were a young kid, I could forgive you acting like an asshole. teenagers do that.
But since you’re an adult, I’m left to believe that you really are just a douche, and I won’t waste any more of my time.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
exactly. I got a C in a statistics class in college and I can see the problem is clearly on his end.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
if you got a C, you’re probably mistaken. i got an A in my statistics course, and i can see the problem is not on his end
klompus - October 16, 2010
I understood the material, I just didn’t give a shit.
do you seriously not see the problem as being on his end or are you just defending a fellow steelers fan? NTN I know is a stats major and from our banter on here, I have gathered he is highly intelligent. Honestly, I will defer to his experience in the subject over yours.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
Again i’m late, but i would think you would need to know the percentage the second place guy received to get an accurate picture of Ward’s 11.6%.
For the record I think HInes Ward is the NFL’s John Stockton, but i can’t ever recall him shying away from contact when he has the ball, so at least he’s willing to receive what he gives.
Villeslgr - October 16, 2010
The two guys at 6% were #’s 2 and 3 I believe.
North Coast Flea - October 17, 2010
Thanks.
Villeslgr - October 17, 2010
When he is number 1, it is a pretty clear indicator.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2010
but as anyone who knows anything (so seems like not you) about statistics and the theory of a ‘sample size’ is you can’t do what you just did right there.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
he was doing that because your friend brought it up. for a stats whiz, your skills don’t extrapolate well to reading comprehension
klompus - October 16, 2010
ha. i never said I was a stats whiz either. He was actually the one that kept escalating the ‘stat war’ on this thread. please stop defending a fellow steelers by falsifying what I say and ignoring logic…
thats…well, illogical.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
you conveniently ignore the part of my post thats actually relevant. what, the deviation you moan and complain about in every other topic
klompus - October 16, 2010
wait…so the fact that Johnny_S was escalating it isn’t relevant to the point of Johnny S’ role in how this conversation got going?
bross09 - October 16, 2010
I have never seen another player with the amount of blindside hits that Ward gets.
I’m not saying that he doesn’t block hard on other plays, but if you are trying to tell me that he doesn’t look for chances to lower cheapshots on other players, then we will have to disagree.
The hit he laid on Daven Holly years back is still to this day, the biggest chickensh*t hit I have seen. Add on the fact that Ward then celebrated over him, you have a douche cocktail that is tough to surpass.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2010
We have to disagree then. I think he looks for chances to block players and put them on there ass. And I do not think that is any different than a defender looking to get a good hit on an offensive player (like ya boy got on Shipley).
I really do not think that block on Daven Holly was as bad as you make it out to be, but clearly we are not going to agree.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
The difference is that TJ Ward had to make that decision in literally hundredths of a second. What I see from Hines Ward is that he lines up guys and has plenty of time to decide what he is going to do.
That is the difference in my mind from playing football, and dirty.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2010
The other difference, of course, is that Shipley, however briefly, had the ball.
woodsmeister - October 15, 2010
difference:
TJ Ward had hundredths of a second to react and when he started to decide to hit shipley, he had the ball. he led with his shoulder but unfortunately also caused helmet to helmet contact. Shipley was NOT defenseless
Hines Ward looks for guy who are a combination of these
a) defenseless
b) not involved in the play
c) not facing him (his personal favorite)
none of these describe the ward hit so its apples to oranges.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Garbage.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Once again, simply not true.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I’m not defending Ward, but I am defending the definition of a dirty player. A dirty player is one who trips, gouges eyes, spits, punches, groin shots, stomping on someone’s face when their helmet is off, titty twisters, etc. Ward doesn’t do any of those.
From experience, you’re supposed to look for the closest person to you or the ball to block. If that person isn’t paying attention, oh well. You ef him up.
You guys are acting like Ward runs out of his way to hit a guy who bent over to tie his shoe.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
That last sentence made me chuckle. Maybe because I envisioned it.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
This is basically what the dude does, man.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Again, simply not true
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
No way.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
well, that’s not true.
he certainly toes the line b/w aggressive and dirty, but the guy is tough as shit and gives his all on every play.
if he were a brown, we’d love him. since he’s a steeler we (rightfully) hate him.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
The hit on the Bengals LB was one of the dirtyest hits I’ve ever seen. No way it was just for the sake of the play. That hit was bullshit across all levels.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
i don’t think he was flagged or fined for that hit. so, maybe it was dirty, but the nfl certainly didn’t agree with you.
this is professional football. the entire idea is to hit the person on the other side of the ball as hard as you can.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
And yet, there are rules about where and how one can hit the players on the other team.
woodsmeister - October 15, 2010
Which does not in and of itself mean the hit was literally dirty
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
He means, even though Ward wasn’t fined, there were rules made specifically against him.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I literally already knew what he meant
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
As opposed to figuratively knowing what he meant.
Adrock2099 - October 16, 2010
finable=/=dirty
bross09 - October 15, 2010
well that’s seems obvious at this point
9James - October 15, 2010
absolutely true, but i’m not aware that ward has been subject to an inordinate number of fines or personal foul penalties.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
If you saw the fine post we had, you would see the NFL is retarded in it’s use of fines. I also think they play special treatment.
And you hit the person as hard as you can within reason and actually do it to people who pertain to the play. Ward hits people regardless ( with his head to their head) of if they are in the play or standing off to the side. It’s bullshit.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
You have formed your opinion and state it as if it is fact.
You are welcome to your opinion. Not everybody agrees with it.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
Thank you?
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Dude. You look for whoever you can and block them- Preferably knock them down. If a person is on the football field and involved in the play at all, then they pertain to the play. If he was knocking people out that were standing on the sidelines, you’d have a point.
But consider this- What happens when Rashard Mendenhall runs a counter or a sweep or anything to the left, while Hines Ward is on the right? What happens when Mendenhall makes a cut to the middle of the field of the field and the CB that was covering Hines Ward takes him down because Hines Ward didn’t knock him down?
Hines Ward gets his ass chewed out while watching game tape on Monday because he let his man take a TD away on that play.
He’s playing football- And I’m pretty sure if MoMass or Robiskie or Cribbs layed out a defender like that, we’d be lighting up the DBN threads with posts saying that they are awesome. Just like after Ward’s hit on Shipley, we argued about whether the hit was an illegal hit, but there was NO ONE who said they didn’t like that Ward hit Shipley and hit him HARD.
shep615 - October 15, 2010
Yeah, Ward wasn’t flagged or fined, but they created a new rule specifically because of him. So, basically, it was a dirty hit that nobody had thought to ban until Ward came along.
Chemo - October 17, 2010
Oh please SB. That hit was awesome and legit.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
A Ward lover would say this.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Or someone who simply is objective in his analysis.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
You saying he’s objective, is subjective. I tend to think he’s being subjective.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I’m just saying, a Ward lover would say that. Also someone who doesn’t love Ward but looked at it objectively and formed his own opinion with no bias might also say it.
I didn’t specifically say he was objective. I have no idea.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I have no subjective opinion on this and I think it was dirty as hell.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
You are completely objective huh?
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
actually, yeah. I don’t have much of a personal, subjective opinion of ward as a browns fan. Plus, I can separate my subjectivity from what I am talking about and am able to be objective about subjects I don’t even (subjectively) agree with.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Well it is still just your opinion. Rivers was just a couple steps from the player with the ball, and Ward lit him up, face mask to the chest. It was vicious, but not dirty.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I have to agree with BY, the hit on the Cincy LB was clean and close to the ball. The hit on Reid I put up earlier is BS though. Helmet to helmet and a cheap shot as he waited until Reid changed his attention elsewhere, then exploded up field and drilled him while he wasn’t paying attention.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
Yeah but he hit a Raven so that makes it ok
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
This is true
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
The Ward hit was legit too.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
No, he regularly crosses the line between aggressive and dirty.
woodsmeister - October 15, 2010
I went to look for that Daven Holly hit because I can’t recall it. But I did find THIS. It helps prove my point.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbLNFiQSTyE
fast forward to about 0:25sec or so
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
All good hits.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
there’s certain level of respect for your opponent most football players have. Ward doesn’t have it, and apparently neither did you.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I showed my opponents zero respect, on the field. Call me dirty then. I have vids, in your opinion, would make me look dirty. I call it kickin’ ass.
Weren’t you a line man? Not to diss line men, but you don’t know what it’s like to hit someone down field. We’re all running full speed and stuff happens. Nothing cheap about it.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
believe me, as a lineman I saw more dirty plays than you can imagine. nobody sees what goes on in the trenches.
yes, I would call you dirty. I may have hated everyone on a rival team, but if I was thirty yards behind a player about to score, I wouldn’t turn around and jack someone. that’s dirty.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I’ve was once on the other side of those "too far away" hits. I didn’t cry about it. I got up and said "Damn it" and felt like a fool. If you’re scared of contact, go play tennis.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
I’ve been on the other side of it too.
This has nothing to do with being scared of contact. It has everything to do with realizing you’re playing a game. I may not like my opponent, but I always respected them. I respected them because I knew they had gone through what I went through to get on that field.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Are you kidding me? Linemen see the dirtiest shit in the game. Even had your eyes jabbed because you forgot to put in your visor for the game? Or your nuts kicked for no goddamn apparent reason? How about getting a palm shoved up into the bottom of your facemask until you’re literally looking for Orion’s Belt in the sky? Hell, and don’t know the dirty stuff down field? There was an incident where I was conceivably out of the play, jogging down the field. I got ear holed so god damn hard, I couldn’t see straight for at least a good 5 minutes.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Actually, I have been poked in the eye by some punkass in San Bruno. They were known as a dirty team. I got ejected for fighting when some dude pulled me down and I started socking up his belly.
Getting earholed does suck. Remember that one play where Sapp hit that lineman from the Packers? I thought that was a legit hit. Too bad the dude’s leg snapped.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Are you Courtland Finnegan?
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2010
Pretty much. :)
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
haha. this was hilarious.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
Dude if you can argue that the hit on Holly, after the player was down, was clean, then you must be on some pretty heavy narcotics.
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
I can’t believe the whole conversation that was born from this dumb comment.
You mis-read my post. The 297 players that were interviewed had 1700 NFL players to choose from. That means each player, in an even distribution, would get .0006% of the vote. And Hines got more than 1-in-10! That is, again, astonishingly high. The two dudes that got 6% of the vote are also, no doubt, dirty players, but Hines still got significantly more votes than them.
Chemo - October 17, 2010
That is just simply not true
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
What’s he supposed to do? Stop and say "Excuse me sir. Do you see me coming? Are you paying attention?" Hell no. You play till the whistle. If you get lit up while jogging during a play that’s your fault.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
There’s a reason they have rules about lighting a guy up away from a play.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
The Daven Holly hit was right next to the ball carrier.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
After the ball carrier was on the ground clearly. He nailed Holly VERY late.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
So that makes it all better. And to think I’ve been pissed off this whole time for nothing! It was right by the ball carrier so go ahead and try to kill the guy and then flex. Thanks!
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I never mentioned Daven Holly, did I? reading comprehension.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Nice. His sub conscious basically just admitted what we’ve all been saying.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
You responded to the guy who was talking about the Daven Holly hit. Reading comprehension and thread following.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
What? No. Just because it was in the line of the Daven Holly line has nothing to do with it. NTN’s comment wasn’t directed toward the Holly line, so your argument holds no water.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Huh?
Chemo: talks about Holly hit
Brownies year: responds what is he supposed to do
notthatnoise: there is a reason…
…
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
So because he comments in the Holly line mean that what he says has to be about Holly? You were just trying to find a lame ass excuse about why your reading comprehension is terrible. You’ve given many reasons as to why it is so it’s futile to try anymore.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
You realize that both of you are acting like children, right?
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I do, but I am laughing about it.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
this is essentially the definition of a troll btw…
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I realize it turned into a troll conversation, but I was not the only one participating.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
but you were the only one trolling. you were making people mad because you thought it was funny. that’s what a troll is. that makes you a troll.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I did not start trolling until I was called an idiot or told my opinion was moronic/idiotic/stupid, etc.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
the correct response to an injustice is not committing another one.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
well, you were saying some pretty moronic things to defend the steelers on a browns site. of course, by people who enjoy intelligent discourse (DBN) they are gonna be pissed and they are gonna see it as trolling.
Trolling is making any sort of inflammatory comment. either you were a troll at the beginning or you are the most ignorant steelers fan (by far) to come over here, even more so than Surag. You would have to be completely daft to not see that your comments were inflammatory.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Comparing him to Surag is an insult to Surag.
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
And it’s pissing me off.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
It’s cracking me up.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
seriously … you two need to take it somewhere else. reading your ridiculous bickering is annoying.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
I logged in, in them morning and didn’t log in again till past 4. there were 250 new comments. now I know what its like on the outside.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
I was? I do not recall that.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
You couldn’t comprehend what you were writing either
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
The argument did start to turn in that direction, eh?
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I believe he was joking.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Literally
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I disagree.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
It means the things perceived as tough and competitive are actually dirty.
I don’t know where you learned statistics, but if somebody gets double the votes of the next closest competitor, that’s an overwhelming margin.
lots of players play through injuries. Hell, people have played without an ACL. That’s tough.
I’ll back-track a little here. Ward is tough and I’m sure he’s competitive, I just don’t think he’s any tougher or more competitive than most other NFL players. The reason people think that is he’s mastered the barely legal cheap shot. I mean, he did it so often they actually made a rule about it.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
For a guy who apparently “loves” stats, he really can’t understand survey sizes ans numbers…
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Not to mention the shot he got on Ed Reid was leading with the helmet.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QGKlluCU0o
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
lame
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
WTH do you mean lame? Its a CHEAP and ILLEGAL shot! Seriously man, football is for big hits, not dirty and illegal ones.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
Lame from BY= Damn, I just got proven wrong, act like it was stupid!
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Really? You’re getting owned by Steeler fans. HA
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
I’d like to think otherwise. And also this is another classic BY comment.
“Hey! Don’t tell them I was wrong! I’m gonna say something about you then, haha!”
So predictable BY…
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I’m sorry, what exactly did he say that was “wrong”? And before you answer this, recognize that opinions can not be right or wrong. They are just opinions. Only facts can be right and wrong.
So, what factual comment did he make that was “wrong”?
Thanks.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I know what opinions are, Jesus. And I just know BY’s way of thinking. As he knows mine basically. This happens on a regular basis. It’s just fun to get him rowled up, but while opinion’s can’t be true, they can be skewed and to say that Ward is not a dirty player at all, is a skewed argument.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
And for you all to say he is a dirty player is a completely balanced argument?
You know this all started because you said he is not tough or competitive. Speaking of skewed arguments.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
Fair.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
What? How did I get proven wrong? By showing me a legit hit and me saying it was legit? C’mon SB, you’re better than that.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
He ran up and hit the guy. Helmets Should he have run up with his hands out and played patty cake?
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
He’s a dick for waiting for another guy to turn his attention elsewhere before going for the block. I’m don’t wanna get into an argument like above. IMO, he is a dirty player for this reason. He is tough and competitive, but he is also a real pussy in waiting until people aren’t paying attention before he gets his “big” hits.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
*I (not I’m)
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
Sigh. Once again, simply not true.
He has spent his whole entire career blocking people one on one. This is how he built the reputation as a great blocker.
All of the blind side hits in his career that people have been talking about, maybe a couple a year. Maybe. The team brings him down and he blocks linebackers, he blocks lineman, he blocks everyone. And he does it straight up, one on one, while they are looking.
He has had some blind side hits. Focus on those all you want and determine him dirty for those if you want. You are welcome to your opinion.
But all of you who keep saying that “all he does is wait for people to look elsewhere” before he hits them are just talking out of their asses.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
Where do I say anywhere up there that he only blocks people when they aren’t looking?
Can you please show me that?
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
it was implied
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
/sigh
Your reading comprehension needs upgraded
And with that, I’m done with this argument.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
I comprehend my reading real good like.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
a) Kimble never said he only goes for blindside hits and I dunno if anyone here truly said thats ALL he does.
b) Yes, he is a good blocker. I respect his blocking when he makes a clean block, which he does do often
c) those few asshole blocks ruin a reputation. just like any reputation, it can be changed by just a few actions.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
a) I think several people have said it. How would you interpret this comment?
Hines Ward looks for guy who are a combination of these
a) defenseless
b) not involved in the play
c) not facing him (his personal favorite)
Would you not infer that the person (and you might recognize who said this) is saying that is ALL he does?
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
don’t make inferrences so much that jump to conclusions. you gotta have more evidence than wording of one comment to infer anything with any validity. You just don’t have enough logic to back up the inferrence at all.
I did not specify he ALWAYS looks for a combination of these 3. You keep doing this and I hate to bring up fallacies (sorry DBN) but this is a form of a proof by example fallacy.
I said that ward looks for players who he can hit in a ‘cheap’ way. you make an a fallacious assumption that i am saying all of his hits are like that.
Actually, I wouldn’t infer that because that would be faulty logic. I don’t interpret meanings of what other people say and add words in my mind.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
I’m bored with you
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
good response…
you try to infer something that is not there and put words into my mouth and once I prove you are wrong, you are bored? do you really want to talk about mature subjects and intelligent debate or does that just bore you?
bross09 - October 15, 2010
When the subject is no longer football I become disinterested
worldtrip - October 16, 2010
Ignore him bro, he’ll stop.
SpecialBrownie - October 16, 2010
yeah, this last comment was the last. I just wanted to get in
word
and then just not care anymore.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
Trolls lose interest when beaten.
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
dude, gimme a break.
the helmet-to-helmet nature of this hit was definitely illegal, no two ways about that. but
you’re joking, right? reed wasn’t on his way to get an ice cream cone. he was focused on a ball carrier up field and was going to try to make a tackle. ward blocked him. period. shame on reed for not, as they say, having his head on a swivel.
be serious.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
This is a tendency of Ward, not one example Joey. He likes to look for people that are looking elsewhere, then he jacks them. Be serious “dude”. He does this often. This is how people get hurt, hell they made a rule up specifically because of the guys play. Isn’t that serious enough?
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
there is no rule against blocking people who “are looking elsewhere”. i’m not even sure what that’s supposed to mean.
i’m not arguing that he doesn’t make dirty hits. at all. the hit on holly was dirty. but his “dirty” hits come from trying to block people going after the ball.
plus, i’ll say again, if he were a brown we would LOVE the guy.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
we would call him hard nosed, scrappy, and tough.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
Well, if that isn’t subjective, I don’t know what is. The thing is, is that no one is in his head, so no one knows his true intents. He is dirty, no one can deny it, but no one knows if the dirty is intentional or if he just doesn’t know when to stop.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
I deny it
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
he who denied it, supplied it
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I deny it
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I deny it
golanbatrac - October 15, 2010
They don’t know this meme.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
well, the hits don’t come when opposing players are headed to the locker room. it’s got nothing to do w/ being inside his head … it’s as simple as watching the tape. his “dirty” hits most frequently happen while blocking people in pursuit of the ball. you disagree?
seems to me that several people are denying whether or not he’s dirty, so maybe that’s subjective, too, huh?
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09083/957938-100.stm
Don’t act like you haven’t heard of this rule
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
That rule does not make it illegal to block someone who is not looking. It just makes it illegal to use your helmet, forearm, or shoulder to do so.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Which he did so on Holly, the Cincy LB, and Reid in the videos I saw, not to mention ones I have yet to see. Am I missing something? Is that not a pattern of behavior?
Nevermind…I don’t know why I am trying to argue my opinion. You keep yours, I’ll keep mine.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
It was not illegal when he did it. At one time in the NFL the head slap was legal. Deacon Jones made a career out of it. Did that make him dirty?
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
yes.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
hate to agree w/ the steeler guy, but … bingo.
“looking elsewhere” is not a protection for anyone in the nfl.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
Except for blocking in the back…
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
touche
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
I for one, wouldn’t love ward on the browns.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
No, I think Reed was definitely on his way to the good humor cart that was on the sidelines. I could tell he was craving something tasty.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Where did you learn statistics? Please show me in print where that factoid is. I think that might apply when you are looking at a comparison of 25% to 50% or something similar. Comparing 11.6% to 6% is not an overwhelming margin, by any sane standards.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
I learned statistics at Case Western Reserve University. It wouldn’t be significant if there was another guy at say 40%, but out of a large sample size, he got double the votes of anyone else. that matters.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Never heard of that school. I learned mine at the University of Maryland. So if we did a poll of 300 people, 6 said choice A, and 3 said choice B. That 2% matters because it is double the size of any other result?
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Where you (or notthatnoise, to be fair) learned statistics from is irrelevant (even though CWRU has a broad ranking higher than Maryland, but I digress); if your application of statistics stinks, then it stinks.
rolub - October 15, 2010
yes. I really can’t be any more clear here.
each team has over fifty people on their roster. thats roughly 1,600 players. thats means each person on the survey had 1600 answers to choose from, and more than 1 out of every ten people asked said Hines Ward. that is significant, and shows a pattern.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
Yes, because all 1700 of those players are going to be reasonable options. That guy who has been inactive for the entire season, that rookie, or that guy that guy who has seen about 10 snaps are all not going to get a considerable consideration. Notoriety definitely played a huge part in the voting. This vote took place directly after the season where Ward was all over the news for the Rivers hit and the subsequent rule (that was made that off season IIRC).
That definitely skewed the result. Do you really think a blindside block is dirtier than stomping on someone’s head?
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Oye, sorry about “considerable consideration”
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
fine, take out the inactives and rookies. you still have over a thousand choices. even if there were only 100 choices, 1 out of ten people picking him would be significant.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I am still wondering what the other 291 people did in this scenario if there were only choices A and B?
bross09 - October 15, 2010
my friend goes there…
Now I am worried about the state of education there if this is what they are teaching you about statistics.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Dude, can you seriously not understand how to compare sample sizes to percentages?
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
Yea, but with such a large number of possible options, the fact that Ward drew 11% of the total vote is astonishing. OVer 1 out 10 picked Hines Ward over EVERY OTHER SINGLE PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2010
hines ward doesn’t have an ACL. seriously.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2010
I’m pretty sure more trolls have commented on here than Browns’ fans.
StuckInPa - October 14, 2010
Where’s Ernest when you need him?
Brownie's Year - October 14, 2010
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2010
It worked in Ernest Scared Stupid, maybe it can work here too.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Why is every Steelers fan automatically a troll?
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
If I were to wager a guess, I would say some people think that any non-Browns fans that post in a thread on the Browns website other than in the Q and A thread is a troll. Personally, I don’t think that’s the case because there’s been mostly intelligent football discussion coming from you guys, so I don’t think you’re trolling.
… But make no mistake, I still hate your collective guts :)
shep615 - October 15, 2010
Agree with Shep above…You guys haven’t been over here simply trash talking, but giving good discussion. There is a lot of variables that are going to factor into this game. This game could go either way.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
no, but some of them are. Nobody ever said every steelers fan was a troll. nobody ever said every steeler fan in this thread was a troll.
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
I was trying to reply to a( boomhauer) comment ,about us getting our ass kicked. Instead of posting me under that comment it put mine down the list .I’m not sure how this crap works,
dawginhouston - October 15, 2010
At the bottom of a comment there’s a reply button.
North Coast Flea - October 15, 2010
-Regarding: “Browns are the team to beat”. If I remember this was seen as the game that cost the Steelers play-off participation, so it really feeds into the rivalry. So you might think, things are as they should be. My advice had been: “Don´t slap the bully!”. Well, we did slap the bully, this could get ugly.
-Roethlisberger returns: Right, can he activate these guys statistically, when so far they´re sub par, based on former performances?:
Hines Ward-12 receptions-165 yards-1 TD
Heath Miller-10 receptions-100 yards-0 TD
Mike Wallace-9 receptions-211 yards-2 TD
Antwan Randle El-6 receptions-72 yards-0 TD
I think he can, so it becomes a matter of containing these guys, in favor of the statistical trajectory. At 3-1, with such sucky stats, I think they´ll have a definite edge.
-Another debut at quarterback?
I would say this is about the flavor Colt McCoy. The baptism by fire has arrived. I advise, that we keep him loose and limber, lets get a feel for this product, and see if it suits the Browns mentality.
-Troy Polamalu is a rover free safety, in some situations you might feel like he´s an extra linebacker back there, so the confrontation you predict is not unlikely, depending on how Peyton Hillis is used. I would say to Hillis, don´t focus on individuals, soften up the whole defense. Another bit of advice, make the receivers block him. The only way to stop a heat seeker, is by also deploying a missile.
-Mike Bell factor:
While not bamboozled and frazzled by this choice, we are approaching what I´ve been envisioning, that is an I-Formation, with a tailback that can block for the fullback. He´s not flashy, but he was good enough for the eventual Super Bowl champions, so he´ll suffice to test the concept.
-Ward vs. Ward.
While I endorse physical play, with the extreme medical scrutiny of possible concussions, I don´t advise any defender to butt heads, at this point. Yeah, I know, that´s a booger, but lets not risk one of the most exciting rookies this year. Having seen Brodney Pool getting shuffled out of the NFL, also following an attitude of hitting under immense scrutiny. No one has mentioned this, but I deem it very important, pending a collision between an offensive and a defensive player, with percentual gauges regarding the immensity of the contact of a head on collision, who comes out on top? Traditionally it´s the offensive player, because he is expected to be gaining yardage, while the defender is expected to be preventing it. Of course we´re accustomed to seeing the defender smack the defenseless offender, but realize this, the scrutiny is on the physics of physicality.
Good luck Browns, a rivalry always contains plenty of equalizers, so is there a chance for a win? Absolutely, we´ve made a lot of progress from last year, to include fresh entities on the field, the Steelers can´t account for, yet.
mooncamping - October 15, 2010
It’s hard to predict anything for Big Ben this Sunday. When did he last play at full-game speed? When did he last take a real hit? And how will the team and fans react to his performance (whatever it might be)? Too many unknowns to say with much certainty that he will come up big on offense.
Has Boss Ward been leading with his head? I haven’t seen it, but I haven’t watched every game (listened to the first three and watched the last two). When Pool made his hits, I watched in fear for him; when Ward hits, I watch in fear for the opponent.
This will be a game to watch. The Browns will be competitive; maybe not on the scoreboard, but definitely on the field. If the Browns can get a ST or defensive TD, I think it will be a one score game in the 4th Q.
Spidey - October 15, 2010 via mobile
I call Ben Roethlisberger Zeus, because he stands back there as if on a cloud, and throws those bolts all over the place. He´s the real deal, and I don´t dispute the two Super Bowls, even though I supported the Seahawks in 06. I don´t think it´s about whether he´s good, it´s about spoiling his come-back party at any cost.
Yes, Ward comes out on top, momentum wise. If you´ve played physical football you know what that means. The momentum resolves one way.
mooncamping - October 16, 2010
When a player targets his hit, he can choose to deliver maximum impact at point of contact or behind point of contact – those who target impact behind contact will avoid using their head or other fragile body parts. That’s the case with Ward.
Ben as Zeus? One of the reasons we delight in watching Ben’s stupidity is because of his great skill on the field. Isn’t that what the Greeks did with their gods?
I’m sure Rob Ryan is not letting the defense forget that the hits on Ben will likely be shown on every highlight reel later in the day. Time for the defense to get the attention and publicity it deserves.
Spidey - October 16, 2010
Well, outright hitting through a guy, that is targeting a spot behind him, is viscious. The real hit artists do what I call “kissing” the opponent, no one gets hurt, because the physics resolve equally between the participants within the whole procedure, approach, contact, hitting the ground. Those hits are the candy of the sport, not the ones where the guy stays on the ground.
mooncamping - October 17, 2010
Rob Ryan is Zues.
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2010
Rob Ryan is Bacchus.
mooncamping - October 17, 2010
I supported the Seahawks in the 06 Super Bowl as well. Unfortunately, the referees supported the Steelers.
woodsmeister - October 16, 2010
Yeah. I´m not that hot on Hasselbeck and Alexander anymore, anyways. I was a Seahawks fan as a kid, that trumped all considerations.
mooncamping - October 17, 2010
My thoughts on this game are as follows:
#1-This is Ben’s first game back, how rusty he is will play a huge outcome on this game
#2-The Steeler’s O-line has improved, but our pass rush and secondary has as well (which out-weighs the other?)
#3-We put up a hell of a fight with the Ravens who in turn beat the Steelers (a win is a possibility)
#4-How will McCoy due against one of the better defenses in the league? (This is my favorite question to get answered)
#5-If McCoy does decent against the Steelers, should he continue to start for the remainder of the season
My answers to these are
#1-He will be rusty
#2-Ben will get some yardage on our secondary, but he I see atleast 4 sacks in this game
#3-So what…any given Sunday…
#4-McCoy struggles early to find a rhythm and we run the ball heavily until late 2nd quarter when he settles in
#5-Yes
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
shep615 - October 15, 2010
Roethlisberger is 1-4 when he returns after not playing due to injury or being rested. He has avg’d 196 ypg (65%) with a 5-9 ratio.
10/23/2005 at CIN W 27-13
11/28/2005 at IND L 7-26
9/18/2006 at JAX L 0-9
1/05/08 JAX L 29-31
12/10/2009 OAK L 24-27
sleepy042 - October 15, 2010
It’s a date!
golanbatrac - October 15, 2010
She beat the Dolphins.
StuckInPa - October 15, 2010
bross looks good in yellow.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Hey. If I would be any character I would be Ernie
bross09 - October 15, 2010
HA I was kiddin’. But you do know Bert and Ernie were gay, right? (also a joke)
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Joe Flacco is gay?
tubway - October 15, 2010
Uh, possible?
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
We at BTSC liken him to Bert.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/10/1/1725017/thought-you-might-enjoy-this-photo-of-joe-flacco-from-this-years#comments
tubway - October 15, 2010
No thanks. Don’t care what goes on over there.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Maybe not, but you do love making fun of Ravens, as we do. This isn’t the pic from the link, but still funny.
Steel Spike - October 15, 2010
I saved this to my comp for future use. HA thx.
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
No worries, homey
Steel Spike - October 16, 2010
That is pretty funny.
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
actually Bert was the one who was gay. Ernie was oblivious (not that there’s anything wrong with being gay). Haven’t you seen avenue Q??
bross09 - October 15, 2010
Don’t know what that is. I’ll check it out.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Just imagine how fast that defense will be when they put the rest of the team down.
Chemo - October 15, 2010
Yeah I was going to make a comment about that as well.
-1 for incorrect use of literally
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I didn’t use it incorrectly, you just interpreted the word “carried” to literally mean “hold,” when it literally means “support.” /sarc
Chris Pokorny - October 15, 2010
I literally misinterpretated the word.
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
Ugh – reply fail
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I literally failed in my reply
worldtrip - October 15, 2010
I miss Kelly Holcomb
Now you’ve gone and gotten me all misty-eyed and missing Kelly Holcomb again!
Perplexio - October 15, 2010
Worst. Thread. Ever.
golanbatrac - October 15, 2010
I’ve enjoyed it
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
That doesn’t surprise me in the least.
golanbatrac - October 15, 2010
Good, I hate surprises.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
He’s just mad he wasn’t involved.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Ha!
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
I love how you’ve sided with the steelers fans on just about everything here. For shame, dude.
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
No. I was defending my opinion on what a cheap shot is. And I don’t like golan. There’s your answer.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
This.
emily522 - October 15, 2010
Holcomb threw for over 400 yards in that game and the Browns were up by 17 points at the half before the bottom fell out in the 2nd half and they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Perplexio - October 15, 2010
Holcomb was looking great that day – William Green had like -5 yds at halftime tho. I was at that game talkin smack back and forth to 5 different people in my section + the usher..the girl I went with wore Browns everything so I was targeted heavily. Then we ended up losing so i had to eat crow. If we would have won tho I might not have made it out alive, so there’s that.
jlsclarity - October 16, 2010
This.
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
I think my vote is for this one.
woodsmeister - October 15, 2010
As an arbiter on the situation, I can tell you for a fact a random statistical sample of over 200 would yield a statistically relevant conclusion on the overall population of 1,700. The 11% to 6% margin would be significant, as it would be extremely unlikely that Hines Ward would not be voted the dirtiest player by the entire population.
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
We have no idea to what extent the sample was random.
John Stephens - October 15, 2010
Does anyone in here hate Hines Ward? Ok, we’ve got a survey for you.
dgcambridge - October 15, 2010
That is a key point to the conclusion as well.
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
Yea, was going to add we don’t have any evidence the sample was random, and I’m not actually convinced that SI would care to conduct a truly random sample. That said, if I were a betting man, I would bet that Ward would come out on top of a survey of the entire league.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2010
On a football note…I just watched Mangini’s press conference and seems pleased with McCoy. I also gathered from the conference that Bell will be playing Sunday. Seems they are trying to get him up to speed with what he needs to know for this game and run with it.
Kimble_79 - October 15, 2010
Big Week for Colt – first NFL start and now this -
AUSTIN, Texas — Colt McCoy, the two-time Walter Camp Football Foundation (WCFF) National Player of the Year and Heisman Trophy finalist, will return to Austin for the Baylor game on Oct. 30 to see his Texas jersey number 12 retired, The University of Texas Men’s Athletics Department announced Wednesday. His jersey will be officially retired during a pre-game ceremony. McCoy will join five other Longhorns football national players of the year to have their jerseys retired: No. 20 Earl Campbell (1974-77), No. 22 Bobby Layne (1944-47), No. 60 Tommy Nobis (1963-65), No. 34 Ricky Williams (1995-98) and No. 10 Vince Young (2003-05).
Texas’ first criteria for a student-athlete having their jersey retired is earning National Player of the Year honors from one of the NCAA recognized awards. McCoy did that by claiming the WCFF honor twice and the Maxwell Award in 2009. He joined Ricky Williams (1998) as Texas’ WCFF Player of the Year selections, and Vince Young (2005), Ricky Williams (1998) and Tommy Nobis (1965) as Maxwell Award honorees.
“I was just overwhelmed, humbled and psyched when I was told about this,” McCoy said. "It’s a dream come true!
“This is such a tremendous honor, but it’s not about me. It’s about all of the great coaches that helped me develop as a player and a man, the tremendous teammates that made my job so much easier and the most supportive family anyone could ask for. I can’t thank Coach (Mack) Brown enough for bringing me to Texas and Coach (Greg) Davis and all of the staff for pushing me and helping me to improve each and every day.
“Having grown up in Texas and playing for my dad in high school makes this extra special. Hopefully it’s something every coach who helped me along the way — from Pop Warner, Little League, junior high and high school — can be proud of and a tribute to everything coaches do in developing young players all across this great state.”
McCoy led the Horns to a perfect 13-0 regular season record and the Big 12 Championship before being injured early in the BCS title game as a senior in 2009. In addition to winning his second WCFF National Player of the Year Award and the Maxwell Award, he earned consensus first-team All-American honors for the second straight year. McCoy also claimed the AT&T Player of the Year Award, Davey O’Brien Award (nation’s top QB), Manning Award (nation’s top QB) and Unitas Golden Arm Award (nation’s top senior QB). He was a finalist for the Lowe’s Senior CLASS Award and the Wooden Cup (nation’s top athlete/community), and was also named the Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year by both The Associated Press and the league’s coaches.
“It’s quite an accomplishment to become national player of the year and it takes an unbelievable career to earn that recognition twice,” Mack Brown said. “You have to be a special player on a great team to do that. Colt certainly was that and I will be very proud to see his name forever placed very high in Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium. Every time I see the name, it will remind me of all of his and his teams’ accomplishments at Texas.”
In 14 games last year, McCoy went 332-of-470 (70.6%) for 3,521 yards and 27 TDs for a 147.4 passer rating, while rushing for another 348 yards and three TDs. His 70.6 completion percentage led the nation. McCoy’s 147.4 pass efficiency rating ranked 16th and he averaged 26.6 yards per TD pass on his 27 scoring throws.
McCoy became the all-time winningest quarterback in NCAA history when he won his 43rd game as a starter against Kansas. He ended with a 45-8 record, bettering David Greene’s (Georgia) mark of 42 victories. He is the first QB in major college football history to lead a team to four 10-win seasons and is also the first QB in Texas history to lead his team to consecutive 12-win seasons and just the second Longhorn, joining Vince Young, to lead his team to consecutive 11-win seasons.
“I can remember when I started following the Longhorns growing up, and then when I came here, seeing Earl (Campbell) and Ricky’s (Williams) numbers up there on the stadium and dreaming of one day accomplishing something like that,” McCoy added. "To join a group like Earl, Ricky and now Vince (Young), Tommy (Nobis) and Bobby (Layne) is just unbelievably humbling. I couldn’t have imagined in my wildest dreams a day like this coming, but I worked really hard, overcame a lot and was blessed to have so many great people helping me along the way.
“I’m really looking forward to getting down there in a couple of weeks and sharing the moment with my coaches, teammates and the great Longhorn fans.”
McCoy holds 47 school records including 16 career, 13 single-season, five single-game, six freshman and seven miscellaneous marks. During his 53-game career, McCoy completed 1,157-of-1,645 passes (70.3%) for 13,253 yards and 112 TDs (45 INTs) for a passer rating of 155.0. His 13,253 yards are sixth on the NCAA all-time list, his 112 TD passes are seventh and his 70.3 career completion percentage is just shy of the NCAA record of 70.4 percent, which is held by Colt Brennan (Hawaii).
His 1,157 completions, 1,645 attempts, 70.3 completion percentage, 13,253 yards, 112 TDs and 155.0 passer rating rank first on UT’s all-time list and he is the first Longhorn to pass for more than 10,000 yards. He is one of just five QBs in NCAA history to pass for at least 2,500 yards in each of his four seasons.
In addition, McCoy has rushed for 1,571 yards and 20 TDs on 447 carries (3.5 ypc) and has rushed and passed for a TD in the same game 14 times during his career. In combining his passing (112) and rushing (20) TDs, McCoy ranks sixth on the NCAA list and first on UT’s TD responsible for list with 132. He had scored at least one TD in 30 straight games entering the BCS National Championship Game. McCoy is UT’s all-time leader in total offense and ranks fourth on the NCAA all-time list, having produced 14,824 yards (13,253p/1,571r) on 2,092 plays (7.1 ypp).
Winner of the 2009 Bobby Bowden Award (Fellowship of Christian Athletes), a National Football Foundation Scholar-Athlete and three-time first-team Academic All-Big 12 selection, McCoy graduated in December with a degree in sports management. He also was one of UT’s most active community service participants and was selected to the Allstate AFCA and Big 12 Good Works teams. McCoy spent his last two spring breaks traveling to Peru to perform mission work, and he regularly serves as a featured speaker representing the FCA and individually.
McCoy was selected in the third round (85th pick) by the Cleveland Browns in the 2010 NFL Draft and may start his first NFL game Sunday at the Pittsburgh Steelers.
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
Too long to read.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
It’s about 1000 words, which is like one / 17th of the rest these back-n-forths in the rest of this thread.
Simmsinns - October 15, 2010
He’s not a Browns fan. Which makes easier not to read.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
Hey – I am a lifelong Browns fan since my birth in Cleveland and a Texas fan and alum due to a move to greener pastures.
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
I’m skeptical that Texas has greener pastures than Ohio. Never been there, but I’m skeptical.
9James - October 15, 2010
Maybe Austin or San Antonio. Maybe. The rest of the state leaves little to be desired, in my opinion.
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2010
Great economic environment. Lots of growth, no tax, great property values.
realmccoy - October 16, 2010
Plus, every thing is bigger right?
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2010
babes
Roger Dorn - October 16, 2010
Ugh, texas women.
SpecialBrownie - October 16, 2010
Ugh? You are so wrong man.
StuckInPa - October 16, 2010
What? You don’t like piles of hair with tons of hairspray?
JustBob - October 16, 2010
there is nowhere where you have no taxes.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
There is no state income tax in Texas or Florida.
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2010
you still have property taxes, and sales tax (and thats just the state level, because everywhere has federal taxes).
There is a difference between ‘no taxes’ and ‘no income tax’. I did know that texas had know income tax, but his statement was still a stupid statement.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
/long response-deleted, politics/economics
Ryan Kelsey - October 16, 2010
Oh Bross…
SpecialBrownie - October 16, 2010
Puerto Rico
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
But what color are the pastures? I guess I was too literal.
9James - October 16, 2010
My apologies. I thought you were one of those TRSS guys who just followed their favorite college QB.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
TLDNR
bross09 - October 15, 2010
actually, it’s tl;dr
notthatnoise - October 15, 2010
they are both acceptable. one just uses an abbreviation (too long, didn’t read as opposed to too long, did not read)
bross09 - October 15, 2010
This coming from the king of post too long to read.
StuckInPa - October 15, 2010
HA!
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
I know – lot of accomplishments.
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
except that most of them don’t mean jack when you are facing an opposing LB coming at you.
bross09 - October 15, 2010
FWIW – you prolly don´t become the winningest QB in college football history if you chit yourself at the sight of a blitzing LB.
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
FWIW – you probably don’t become a good NFL QB just because you’re the winningest QB in college football history.
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
Who said he would be a good NFL QB?
realmccoy - October 15, 2010
Oh, so that giant list of accomplishments and your constant whining of how good all those Texas players we never drafted are has nothing to do with how good McCoy may be?
Color me surprised.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
yep. we need ballhawks and WINNERS!
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
BTW – Earl Thomas in 4 games = 3 Ints + 3 Passes Defensed. Both our starting safeties combined, 5 games each = 0 Ints + 1 Pass Defensed. Do you think there may be a tie in that our safeties don´t make plays in the passing games with backbreaking passing TDs? I give Ward a pass because he is a rookie and makes plays in the run game and has occassionally put pressure in a blitz package. Elam is an obvious joke. In addition, I am getting a little tired of having prolly the slowest team in NFL. ET ran a sub 4.4 and would have added a lot of speed to the defense.
realmccoy - October 16, 2010
We’ve already said Elam sucks. Ward is naturally a SS.
Shut the hell up about Thomas. We didn’t draft him, we don’t care about him, we never will.
Now shut up, and jump on the Ward train.
StuckInPa - October 16, 2010
Oh snap!
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
How about we hit him with it.
SpecialBrownie - October 16, 2010
I have consistently stated that I am unsure that Colt may not have the arm strength to be a good NFL QB. However, I do feel that if he does have the arm strength, he is a winner of an individual and football player.
realmccoy - October 16, 2010
“Congratulations! You just won an individual and a football player!”
JustBob - October 16, 2010
What all those black and piss jerseys say:
Simmsinns - October 15, 2010
It was really just that Johnny_S guy and SB that were trolling.
StuckInPa - October 15, 2010
I’m entirely comfortable sticking with my broad generalization that anyone with a profile image that resembles that above is a troll.
Simmsinns - October 15, 2010
That’s fine. I mean that’s what we Browns’ fans do right? We overgeneralize.
StuckInPa - October 15, 2010
Only it’s accurate in this case.
Simmsinns - October 15, 2010
Browns fans are always generally accurate.
JustBob - October 15, 2010
generally speaking, yes.
Dawg Nuts - October 15, 2010
I shop at the Dollar general on any general day. When I was little I always wanted to become a general in the army.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
i’m experiencing general malaise.
Dawg Nuts - October 16, 2010
Wtf? That was unnecessary.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
You mean like you and Johnny destroying this thread?
StuckInPa - October 15, 2010
You didn’t need to call me out at all, regardless of what I’ve said in the thread. You just love taking jabs at me when you can.
SpecialBrownie - October 15, 2010
You make it so easy.
StuckInPa - October 15, 2010
You take jabs at other people, SB. Relax bro.
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
TRSS and B09 would like to thank you for pointing that out.
Simmsinns - October 16, 2010
I laughed out loud and woke up my dog.
Brownie's Year - October 15, 2010
In For A Surprise
i have a gut feeling this game will be quite the opposite from the way the general public is viewing. yes i understand Big Ben is this amazing QB but this is his first action in NFL game speed. i have to believe he will be rusty. also i love that you pointed out Arians decision as to whether to get Ben acclimated or to keep Mendenhall hot. i believe in McCoy and as long as the run game produces, the D comes ready to play ball, and McCoy comes up big when we need him to then im confident we can pull out a close one
ILikeTurtles - October 16, 2010
“YOU’RE CLEARLY A TURTLE!”
SpecialBrownie - October 16, 2010
His fav team list is wierd.
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
ya its quite weird. but then everyone else would say me being a Browns fan is weird so it balances out
ILikeTurtles - October 16, 2010
ILikeZombies
North Coast Flea - October 16, 2010
ILikeBeer
Dawg Nuts - October 16, 2010
It was from Tosh.0
North Coast Flea - October 17, 2010
Fail.
SpecialBrownie - October 17, 2010
i am
ILikeTurtles - October 16, 2010
So, Chris. On threads like this is there any way to segregate the you-are-a-big-fat-poopyhead strings?
JustBob - October 16, 2010
It wouldn’t have been a problem if the army of BTSC trolls wouldn’t have came over here.
We prove every other week that we can have intelligent and civil discussions with opposing fans. It’s clear that isn’t going to work with those people because they’d rather resort to troll behavior.
Simmsinns - October 16, 2010
Yeah really. I was impressed with the Chief guys. They were cool.
Brownie's Year - October 16, 2010
I really liked them. I have always liked that fanbase.
bross09 - October 16, 2010
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