Dawgs By Nature

Delhomme needs to squash the suck bug.

he really shouldn’t have been playing. his ankle clearly wasn’t ready, and the o-line wasn’t playing very well, either, which didn’t help. but still, i can easily see wallace starting from now on. he’s proven that he can manage the game well, when healthy

He shouldn’t have been playing because he sucks.

No way man youre being irrational how can you say he sucks???

Well, he has lost 2 games for us.

No way man he’s never healthy. He was playin great against TB til he got hurt.

then again, he wasn’t “Hurt” when he threw that pick six.

He was getting hit on his ankle at the exact time he threw the ball. He was being tackled when he let the ball go.I don’t know how many ways to say this,
WHEN YOU THROW A BALL,AND SOMEONE HITS YOU THE BALL IS GOING TO GO OFF COARSE. I don’t understand how some people can look at something and still not see what happened. Well that’s what happened it wasn’t Jake’s fault.

when he threw it however, he was NOT injured.

when he made the decision to make a bad throw, he was NOT injured. he got ‘hurt’ after the pass was thrown.

He was being hit as he threw the ball,plain and simple.You try throwing a ball with someone falling on your leg. I get it, you don’t like Delhomme, but, be fair.

wow…you are making assumptions.

I am not a ‘delhomme hater’ here, but to say he was ‘hurt’ when he threw that ball and we should ignore it is RIDICULOUS.

yes, he was being hit in the leg. he should have never threw that pass. it was a bad decision in many ways (throwing into coverage, already starting to be hit, etc…)

Well I guess I can’t argue with that logic?.You see it your way, and I’ll see it mine

fine…you love delhomme and I am indifferent.

we see it our own ways.

One of the differences between good QBs and bad ones is that good QBs don’t throw the ball when a defensive player is in the process of tackling them. They tuck the ball and wait for another play. Bad players throw it into the middle of the field for it to be intercepted.

HenryDawg - October 11, 2010 reply

exactly. and good QBs actually can throw it on target occasionally when they are being tackled.

Am I the only one who sees the /sarc?

I thought the “no way man” was a giveaway. We could be wrong though.

Because he sucks

Delhomme is the SUCK BUG. He is a dung bettle for sure. He was a horrible choice

Serious question: are you retarded?

buuuuuuh.

Mandatory “buuuuuuh” REC.

I really feel that’s the only way to describe the game.

/sigh

Western Reserve - October 10, 2010 reply

Between the play calling and the execution, our offense is a joke.

Brian Daboll MUST be shi*canned at the end of this year. Please.

Thoughts:
1.) Joe Thomas had his worst game as a Brown
2.) Cribbs isn’t near 100%
3.) Hillis is a warrior, but at some point there had to be a better option.
4.) Nice work by the defense, except that long TD pass
5.) Delhomme obviously shouldn’t have started, I wonder if he even should have been the backup
6.) 2 more groan-worthy roughing the passer calls.
7.) I actually didn’t hate the play calling

Western Reserve - October 10, 2010 reply

Agree with everything here except #7. Run the football. Especially on first down.

First, that is not usually a good way to score points. Second, we didn’t have the healthy backs to do it successfully anyway. Third, the first down passes were working quite well.

Agree especially with #3: with Hillis nursing an injury we HAD to have an extra RB available, and that would have been Davis.

On the QB front with Delhome old & taking time to get back from injury, and Wallace being mobility dependant, we could be in for a real rough ride now.

Davis was inactive.

Right. And that was a huge mistake.

Western Reserve - October 10, 2010 reply

Running the football manages the game better, shortening the game, giving the defense a breather they desperately needed and likely resulting in at least some positive yards. Harrison could have been given more chances, and even if Cribbs isn’t 100%, I think we could have utilized the Wildcat to run more often.

you cant run the ball when the fill the box up and dare you to throw.See how we have no passing game get ready to see this happen more and more in the weeks to come.The running game is all we got and teams will now dare us to pass on them.

Brownsfan4ever - October 10, 2010 reply

Delhomme blew it.
We had them, and we let em’ off the hook.

They are we thought they were!

I actually thought Delhomme was going to be decent based on the preseason.

How did we HAVE them with only a 4 point lead?

palcal - October 10, 2010 via mobile reply

It was close until the end of the 4th. We played well up to that point.

it seems that from what I am reading, outside of Delhomme, the browns played at least as well as the falcons. they definitely did the first half.

can we just get a second-half offensive coordinator? Rufio, maybe?

no matter how bad today was, we can always count on that it will never be as embarrassing as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fv_yQ86D4

Hahahaha.

God, Rodgers. You throw an INT now? Come on!

I have a feling the Pack arent’ making the Super Bowl this year.

Same. I picked them to, but Ryan Grant’s injury has caused a major setback among other things.

I did as well. Their Offense isn’t producing.

How often do you see a score of 5 in football? Not very. (Oak leading SD)

When the Browns had a chance to tack on another touchdown at the goal line, he muffed the exchange with the center on a planned handoff to Peyton Hillis. The Browns had to settle for a field goal despite outstanding starting field position.

Most (all?) of our snap exchange problems have been against 4-3 teams. I think this is a Mack issue.

Down 13-10 mid-way through the fourth quarter, on a third down play, Delhomme’s quick pass was tipped into the air by a free rusher. The player who tipped the ball stayed with it and intercepted it as he fell to the ground. Delhomme was staring at the guy the whole time and should have run over to tap him down in case he picked it. Instead, he just stared in awe as the defender got up to run in for a pick six.

Down 20-10 with just under two minutes to go, Delhomme’s pass was thrown off the helmet of an offensive lineman and intercepted. The pocket collapsed on him too quickly, but it was still another lowlight for Delhomme.

Worth noting that neither of these INTs were on Delhomme. The first was a great play by the Falcons and the second is on the O line who got schooled today.

Beyond all of that, Delhomme had about 4-5 other passes that could have been intercepted.

It’s hard to be accurate when the line is in your lap immediately after the snap.

Sure, Peyton Hillis was banged up, but you still need to give Jerome Harrison some touches and stick with the running game.

Giving the ball to Harrison is a wasted down this year. He’s done nothing and shown nothing. Give it to Vickers or Cribbs maybe, but not Harrison.

Delhomme’s lack of mobility led to a lot of these issues. He didn’t have the physical ability to move in or out of the pocket. He was an easy target.

But you are right, the O line was terrible.

-Delhomme looked slow on several plays just getting out from under center, and he’s been the one having these issues in the preseason and regular season.

-Yes, it was definitely a great play by the defensive lineman. It was also a bad play for Delhomme, especially since he could’ve been there to touch the d-lineman down.

-Bad day for the offensive line, but that could’ve been accounted for with better playcalling.

-Giving the ball to Harrison has been a wasted down at times, but with Hillis and Delhomme banged up and it being a close game, you have to have faith in your other running back on the roster. In Week 1 he had limited carries with limited productivity, but then broke for a big run.

Chris Pokorny - October 10, 2010 reply

It was also a bad play for Delhomme, especially since he could’ve been there to touch the d-lineman down.

I just watched the highlight a half dozen times on NFL.com, and I don’t think there’s any way he could have gotten there.

He could have tried.

Weak argument.

You’re right, no effort was the better play.

I’m not saying he would have made the tackle, but he made no effort either.

Yes, the guy standing there with his thumb up his ass is who I want leading my team

Delhomme shouldn’t have been playing on his ankle. If you can’t move, you can’t play QB and you can’t throw.

Seneca going down was a worst case scenario for us. Play the rookie or the injured vet who won’t be able to play well? Glad I didn’t make that call.

Glad I didn’t have to make that call.

Wallace seemed to play pretty well with the same exact line. It’s ok to just accept that a guy sucks. Saying neither of the ints were on JD is ludicrous. Of course they were, he doesn’t have the sense to find the throwing lanes or the ability to move in the pocket to create space. If his ankle hurt too much is your excuse then he should never have dressed period.

Harrison hasn’t had enough touches to determine that he is a waste. Once again we played a game where we were ahead or only down by a few as if we were trailing by 20.

We really ought to be playing Colt in these situations. It’s pretty obvious nobody seems to think he is “the answer” so when the opportunity arises, lets see what he can do. What’s the worse thing that can happen?

I dont put all the blame on Delhomme for his second INT, but there is certainly something to be said for finding an open throwing lane and then altering your point of release. That DE didn’t sneak up on Jake.

i do when he got the contact he shouldn’t have thrown it.

crazyL80 - October 10, 2010 reply

if the quarterback ratings tell us anything than delhomme is half the quarterback that wallace is. 88.5 vs. 48.2. the only thing that gives delhomme a buffer is the fact he’s only played one and a half game so far which might entice some to forgive and forget. but after his last season… it looks like he’s not just bad days anymore.

crazyL80 - October 10, 2010 reply

Wallace, a mobile QB, was healthy. Delhomme, a pocket passer, was injured. One is affected by a collapsing line more than the other.

Is there at this point any reason to believe that Delhomme can be a BETTER passer than Wallace has been? Other than hoping Delhomme can return to form from 2-3 years ago, what evidence is there to show that he will be hitting 2 TD’s to every INT and hitting +60% of his passes, as Wallace currently is? Even with a healthy line and a healthy ankle, I am extremely skeptical that he can produce like Wallace has been able to. Consider that Wallace has only thrown 7 INTs to his last 18 TDs. Jake has thrown 22 INTS to his last 9 TDs.

What rationale can be used to justify giving a healthy Delhomme the nod over a healthy Wallace?

None whatsoever. Not to mention that JD is a total head case anyway while Wallace seems to be mentally solid.

Wallace doesn’t even know how to audible plays. This is a problem for me.

Didn’t Jake both get a blitzing LB to tip his hand on a hardcount and then audible accordingly on the play he threw the pick-6 in TB?

I’m not denying that thats a great skill to have, but more important than anything else is the ability to get the ball into the endzone without turning it over.

I guess I’m missing the offensive force this team was under Seneca Wallace. He was starting when the offense became completely inept during the second half, right? Yeah, he wasn’t turning it over, he also wasn’t doing a ton more than handing it off to Hillis and completing short passes. I think a healthy Jake can do that and bring a little something extra to the game. I’m in no means a fan of either of these QBs, I just think the coaching staff was right in starting a healthy Jake over a healthy Seneca.

And by second half I mean all of the second halves we have played so far this season.

Exactly right. We’re not going to win many games if we don’t throw down field. Delhomme, for all his faults, can at least throw it over the top and loosen up the defense.

We’ll win even fewer games if we turn it over more often than we score. Thats almost a gimme with Delhomme at QB.

Can he? He hasn’t really shown that except on 1 pass.

D.A. could also do this

The naome40 - October 11, 2010 via mobile reply

I had anice big reply typed out but SBNation ate it.

Long story short: A QB’s job is to get the ball into the end zone without turning it over. Objectively, Wallace has been doing that better than Delhomme for the last 3 years.

when the pocket wasn’t collapsing, was delhomme any better than wallace?

Wallace did not have the problems Delhomme seem to incur. The deal is putting pressure on Delhomme is the blueprint for his mistakes, which are usually horrible game changing mistakes. You have to admit, so far Delhomme is a huge dissapointment.

We’ve seen one half of a healthy Delhomme (and he looked good).

I still say he (Delhomme) has been a dissapointment and Wallace has been a little better than expected. NOT GOOD but better than expected.

Wallace has looked almost exactly like I expected, with less running out of bounds for -3 yards and also less athleticism.

Completely disagree with the Harrison comment. He’s still the all time single game rushing record holder for the Browns. That’s what he is capable of. Even if Hillis is 100%, Harrison should be getting 10 touches a game.

Jim Brown was the all time greatest player in Browns history. Does that make him capable of being great today?

One year off is lot different than 45 years off.

Fair, but Harrison does seem like a long way off from his form at the end of 09

True.

Maybe it’s the O-line that is a long way off from their form at the end of 2009. I think Hillis has been effective so far partly because of his size. He can shake off guys who would bring Harrison and maybe a lot of other backs down.

While it’s great that we have Hillis, we’re starting to see that only being able to use one back effectively offers very limited chances for offensive success over the course of a season. It may be true that Harrison needs to pick up his game a bit, but I think the line needs to do the same.

JustBob - October 11, 2010 reply

I don’t know. Hillis has run well behind that same line. And I don’t think Hillis is great. He is good, making one guy miss (by running through their tackles) and pushing the pile forward. If Harrison isn’t capable of doing that, James Davis should jump him.

exactly. I like hillis and like his downhill running style, however that can’t be the whole reason we are 4th in the league in short yardage situations and 6th at pushing the pile and getting positive yardage. indy doesn’t have great running backs, but are 5th and 7th in those categories repectively, because they have a stellar O-Line.

2nd level yards are much more reliant on RB play and we are 24th. I think the O-Line is doing great.

What Harrison is capable of is not in question. He’s capable of rushing for over 200 yards against NFL defenses while his QB has a rating of 10. 15 shitty carries spread over the course of 5 weeks doesn’t change that.

shitty back=/=shitty carries. Its not like he gets carries in the worst possible scenarios and Hillis gets them in the best when they are playing together. that is ridiculous, untrue, and borderline a conspiracy theory.

Any back can have 15 shitty carries, to state the obvious.

Oh, and nice try on the ridiculous strawman.

I don’t know if its the shape he is in, his health, his focus, or some combination. But Harrison isn’t as good as he was at the end of last year.

I think he looks heavier than last season.

Bernie19Kosar - October 12, 2010 reply

agreed

First, I think that Davis should have been active for this game. I just don’t think it would have made that much of a difference. I don’t really have the eye to pick these things out, but my impression is that Hillis has been able to do better than Harrison because, to some extent, he’s able to create his own hole to run through. For all of the rest of the RBs, you need the O-line to give you a bit more to work with.

I just don’t think that our line is performing at the same level in the running game that they were late last season. But, as I said, I don’t really have the eye to pick out the specifics, it’s just my impression. Mayhap somebody (Rufio) could look at some game tape to determine if Harrison was getting any holes to hit.

JustBob - October 12, 2010 reply

this O-Line is one of the best run blocking O-Lines right now in the league. We are 4th in short yardage situations and 6th in the ability to get positive yardage. this is somewhat due to hillis. however, like I said below to RK, indy doesn’t have a power runner like us, and they are 5th and 7th respectively in those categories. Plus we, like them, rank low on yards at the 2nd level (5-10 yards) and these yards are much more reliant on RB play than yards near the LOS.

Honestly, I would probably put us right now in the top 5 or top 10 run blocking O-Lines in the league the way we are playing and we are clearly up there in pass blocking too.

we are clearly up there in pass blocking too

i haven’t looked at the stats, but i don’t think that’s clear. at the very least, we’re not as “up there” in pass blocking as the last couple of years. i think joe t. has already surrendered more sacks this year than he did all of last.

North Coast Flea - October 12, 2010 reply

Well yeah he only gave up one I’m pretty sure. Also I believe that was because DA ran into the defender.

He has surrendered 2 sacks from what I remember, both last week. the number will probably drop on wednesday when football outsiders figures in the sacks let up to atlanta. However, i don’t think its enough to drop us out of the top 10, considering they had us ranked 5th in adjusted sack ratio.

Based on less than a full games worth of carries.

he has 31 carries, which is more than a full game’s worth and projects to almost 500 carries in a season (if thats a ‘full game’s worth).

He had 16 carries against kansas city. last year matt forte and knowshon moreno, both starters, averaged 16 yards per carry. During this game, harrison sucked. Outside of one run the game before, he also sucked in a more limited role.

And Hillis was averaging 3 ypc until the last run against Cincinnati. The idea that almost 900 yards in 4+ games (not to mention a career 4.5 ypc average) is negated by a few quarters of work is preposterous and dismissible.

And Hillis was averaging 3 ypc until the last run against Cincinnati.

but has averaged 4.6 yards per carry the whole year. you want to go back to Harrison last year? in the last 2 games in fact, he had a ypc of 3.8 which isn’t particularly great.

to say his 2+ games where he has sucked this year are negated by one tremendous game and a couple solid games is also preposterous.

and you talk about strawman? I never directly compared harrison rushing in 2009 at the end to his work last year. maybe RK did, but you are strawmanning me then based on what someone else said…that is also preposterous and dismissible.

I am with kwoog on this one, but do agree with the others that Harrison seems to lack his usual burst.

Roger Dorn - October 12, 2010 reply

This GB/WAS game needs to end so I can watch SD/OAK.

Most (all?) of our snap exchange problems have been against 4-3 teams. I think this is a Mack issue.

That’s an interesting point.

Mangini & Daboll

What you mean they haven’t fired the maggot Mangini and his butt buddy OC Daboll yet?

CharleneRene - October 10, 2010 reply

Mangini is the man.

Mangini is a keeper.

Daboll is dumb.

North Coast Flea - October 10, 2010 reply

Perhaps you might prefer the content over at Cleveland.com

perhaps i might prefer a competent OC that plays to the strengths of his players and actually makes appopriate adjustments and commitments in order to win the game in the second half.

is that better?

(or I could save myself- and everyone else- some time with my prior statement. )

Adjustments like using the other injured QB? Using the inexperienced rookie QB? Feeding the ball more to the injured RB?

JustBob - October 10, 2010 reply

How bout chipping the ends beating our tackles? How bout running play actions in run downs? How bout staying with the flash package until they show they can stop it?

My complaints with Daboll are mostly design-related. But he doesn’t make adjustments in game worth crap.

Was I talking to you?

While his remark was dumb, it is a public blog.

He said that like I was calling him out.

The Browns have lost to four 1-loss teams by an average of 5.5 points and beat a struggling Cincy team. There is hope in Cleveland if you’re not too blind to see it.

Nah, we see it.

Not everyone does. See: my Facebook newsfeed. It’s like cleveland.com up in there.

If we can keep it to 5.5 against Pitt I will be extremely satisfied.

If we can get healthy during the week I see no reason why we shouldn’t look for a win.

Big if.

And our boys need to play like we know they can. Simply put, our O-line did not play to their ability today.

Definitely a huge if. I expect the line to get nasty in Pitt, though. At least the left side.

Huge questions over who’ll be fit to start in our backfield though.

can anyone explain why this happened? the 4-3 D? didn’t see the game.

Joe Thomas got beat one on one. We’re not used to needing to give him help, and we didn’t make adjustments. Also, Wallace doesn’t have good awareness and Delhomme was a statue, making the O-Line’s faults even more stark.

That’s a good summary.

What;s with the 4-3 though?

What do you mean? Why do we have trouble with it? Personally, I think a 4-3 with good ends is the best defense in football. And we just saw that.

Agree again, but a 4-3 without great ends is a disaster.

I think a 4-3 with good ends is the best defense in football.

No thanks. I’ll take a hybrid scheme, please.

This is probably the most likely for success. But I just enjoy a defense like the Giants or Colts when they are going well, more than anything. Though just about everyone is some form of hybrid these days.

I hate the Tampa-2. If you have to go 4-3 I want a Jim Johnson/Spags scheme, and I prefer MOFC.

The Colts are insanely smart for having done what they’ve done though. Incredibly smart.

I get the difference in coverages, but my love of the 4-3 is up front. The 3-4 is just too easy to find running lanes against.

And I’m a huge fan of the traditional 4-3 end, like Reggie White, Michael Strahan, or Dwight Freeney… or John Abraham.

Agree to disagree.

Plus, the reality is a constant hybrid scheme for all teams these days.

Several – including the hit that Wallace was hurt on.

good summary, Ryan. thanks.

“we didn’t make adjustments”

sounds like a trend.

sounds like a trend.

a disturbing one, at that.

i’m starting to think that our amazing lack of depth and talent gets exposed over 4 quarters, too. there’s only so much you can do w/ bubble gum and paper clips.

on that point, how long a rope do we think mangini has? the dearth of talent on this roster is clearly his responsibility, but the fight that this team has showed from start to finish has to be largely his responsibility, too. do holmgren / heckert let mangini try to teach his “fight” to more talented players on the heels of another 5-11 season?

i, for one, would like to see him stick around and coach some players w/ ability.

North Coast Flea - October 12, 2010 reply

Rob Ryan can do a lot with bubble gum and paper clips, he’s the McGuyver of DCs.

I think the underlying issue that will determine whether or not Mangini stays long term will be if they can merge the Parcells/Belichick and Walsh styles of roster management.

It is easy and too simplistic to say “its Mangini’s job to coach, he doesn’t need to worry about that” (not that you are saying this). This is the NFL, everything about your team and your franchise has to work together. Mangini and Holmgren/Heckert seem to all know that a front office needs to be cohesive to succeed, but agreeing on which philosophy will be the issue.

Belichick built his championship teams on toughness, intelligence, versatility, and a faceless army mentality (really only Tom Brady has been close to as big a name as the team name). Walsh won by finding star power.

What do you mean by “the dearth of talent on this roster is clearly his responsibility”? Are you saying that he is the reason why the team has little talent or that it’s his responsibility to coach a team that has little talent? The latter is absolutely true. Without a doubt, he’s got the team playing hard so that they have a chance to win (even if they’ve only won one game). I think he should get a chance to teach more talented players his “fight” as you say.
If you meant that he’s responsible for the team having little talent, that’s not really true. He was only in charge for a year. And while he did get rid of BE and K2, he also brought in guys like Mack, Roth, Evan Moore, and Bowens who have been playing well.

And while he did get rid of BE and K2

Edwards does not qualify as ‘talent’ in this argument. At least K2 produced and wasn’t a complete locker room cancer.

I don’t think the dearth of talent is clearly all on mangini. its not like he had elite talent when he came in.

with this loss, I hope they don’t lose the intensity they brought and have been playin with

The naome40 - October 11, 2010 via mobile reply

Skins’ ’bout to win.

Damn, I still can’t get over it. All I wanted for my b-day was a win this week and respect for the Browns..

Bad sports weekend for me.

Tigers lose too?

Yup. They blew it against UNC.

It was nice for OSU to win, but other than that it was a crappy weekend. If I win in fantasy, it’ll make things a little bit better.

somehow I am winning fantasy. My opponent is 4-0 right now in the DBN league. I had a decent feeling going in, plus 2 of his best players got completely shut down.

Boldin and Foster did shit for me today, so yeah, let’s go 9ers

Foster killed me.

Brandon Lloyd and Cedric Benson saved me from the Foster hiccup today.

this week was a veyr strange/low scoring one for lots of fanasty regs.

If only I’d played Lloyd.

So glad I benched Collie for him. Walter over Andre was a mistake however, but like I mentioned, I made moves that saved me, and I pulled through by 11 points.

I had Mercedes Lewis, so not all is lost.

were you aussie browns in the unofficial DBN league? I know I was facing him and he has both Boldin and Foster.

No I’m London Silly Nannies, and I am facing you.

you’re right. I thought I was facing Aussie Browns. my bad. I was really worried, but I got lucky Foster and Boldin didn’t come through. I had a feeling on boldin.

You still have a chance though is SF defense does well.

Yeah, you’re lucky you’re not facing the Aussie Browns. Everyone that isn’t facing the Aussie Browns are lucky they are not facing the Aussie Browns.

yeah.

…I’m facing the Aussie Browns.

Does UNC even still have a team?

They do. Coached by Butch Davis.

Clemson is in a major transition year. Our running back, Andre Ellington, is a bright spot though.

Sorry that was a bad joke on UNC’s troubles not a diss on Clemson.

I don’t take offense to it. Clemson’s not very good this year.

emily522 - October 12, 2010 reply

How is Bowers looking to you?

He’s probably Clemson’s top NFL prospect.

emily522 - October 12, 2010 reply

Well yeah, but is he having a good season? Does hie play hard?

I’m going to be honest, I don’t really evaluate the players haha. But in 5 games he already has 6 sacks. Can can good pressure on the QB. He and DeAndre McDaniel are definitely the leaders of the defense.

emily522 - October 12, 2010 reply

Yeah but you are a fan and can say “he looks like he’s playing well”. In fact, you surpassed that. Thanks.

Me as well. I’m a Bama fan. I’m actually more pissed about this loss.

DisplacedBuckeye - October 10, 2010 reply

In good news, the Buckeyes are #1 baby.

LANE MOORE WITH A CATCH. Finally.

Oh just kidding. It hit the ground/is being challenged. I am kicking myself right now.

Holy crap. Just realized Cincy lost to TB.

The excuse making for Delhomme is nauseating.

1. I’m tired of hearing the injury excuse. Everyone in the NFL gets hurt at some point in time. Last night I watched a kid at Florida play an entire game with broken ribs and broken hand. Phillip Rivers played a playoff game with a torn ACL. Ryan Mathews missed one week with the same injury Delhomme has. A RUNNING BACK.

2. Yes, the offensive line played poorly for the majority of the game. He had good protection when he threw into TRIPLE coverage in the end zone. Not to mention his protection was fine when he threw a horrendous pass right into the belly of a Falcon safety. Let’s not pretend that he was rushed every time he dropped back.

Right, beyond being slowed by an injury he is not looking very sharp mentally.

kingcrimson2 - October 10, 2010 reply

I don’t think there’s excess excuse making. He went in injured and failed badly.

We’re still in a holding pattern for QBs (which is a major upgrade) and unless Wallace really doe smake Homgren look like the guru we are building a team whilst waiting on a QB.

Your argument loses a lot of steam by using the assumption that all injuries are the same for all players.

JustBob - October 10, 2010 reply

Again, it is a high ankle sprain.

This excuses poor decision making how?

I don’t see any excessive excuse making. I do see a lot of people trying to pin this one on Delhomme though, which isn’t fair. Our O-line was awful. Joe Thomas got schooled multiple times in the game. We couldn’t run the ball. Our defense allowed both a 140 + yard rusher and a 100+ yard receiver. It was a group effort, this loss.

I called it in the game thread; we have a QB controversy. This is going to be the topic of conversation all week, when, really, Delhomme v. Wallace is kind of beside the point. They both suck. If one is better than the other, it’s not by much, and there’s certainly not enough of a difference to make any difference on the scoreboard. The thing we should be worried about is the offensive line and our defense. Why is Thomas getting beat? Why are our guys getting pushed around in pass protection? Why are we allowing wide open receivers downfield? Why was Roddy White (or Owens or Boldin) not covered on so many plays? These are the things that are costing us games.

Delhomme v. Wallace is kind of beside the point. They both suck.

You’ve got a damn good point there. If Holmgren, Heckert, and Mangini have faith in a QB selection in this upcoming draft, I’m all for it, which is rare for me.

Same. I hate hate hate hate HATE taking QBs early, but if there’s a guy that they’re comfortable with in the first round, we’ve gotta grab him.

Quite wrong on Seneca Wallace. He is a well above average 2nd string QB and was a steal for the Browns for a 7th rounder.

You aren’t disagreeing with anyone. The need is for a 1st string QB.

Yea I am disagreeing. I am saying that Seneca is damn good backup and doesn´t suck in the role he has been given by Mangini.

“Damn good backup” doesn’t really mean much.

exactly. I am one of the people here more favorable to wallace, but a backup is still a backup

/agree. This team does not have a starting-caliber QB at all. The question: how to get one? Without having one of the top 3 or 4 picks in the draft we are stuck with later-round, low percentage picks as there are so many bad teams this year that are in the same boat (need a QB but will likely pick ahead of us). Not sure how we can address this QB need as no obvious starter seems set to make a move either. Is McCoy the guy? Who knows.

Eh, I prefer trading for a QB, but we just aren’t there yet. Delhomme and Wallace are the guys this year. McCoy and traded/vet/Wallace/draft pick are next year.

I agree. A move this year is probably not in the cards. I’m definitely thinking about next year at this point also.

The problem is, is that the debate is over who should be our starter, not who would make a good back up. One of these guys is going to have to start and it appears that neither is all that up to the task.

Yes, Seneca’s role was to be a back up but, depending on his injury, that role could change, which is what we are discussing based on Golan’s comment.

He is a decent back up, We do need a starter. Now!

North Coast Flea - October 10, 2010 reply

agreed

SipedUp - October 11, 2010 reply

A big fat hairy THIS.

I´ll take Seneca as 2nd string QB on this team for the next 7 years. Are we forgetting that he was brought in to be the backup QB and has performed quite well in that capacity? Is he an above average starting QB in the NFL – no – but he is a damn good backup. Hat tip to Holmgren for bringing him in for a 7th.

I think if you had Delhomme healthy as a backup, he could be a damn good backup

Unless you have a guy like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc.

A back up is never just a back up. They are only a back up until the other guy screws up. We don’t need a back up, in case of injury to our starter, which is what you have when you have a quality QB, we are in a situation where our back up is really a 1b QB.

Golanbatrac you are correct.

Grockcubs - October 10, 2010 reply

If it seems like I am blaming the entire loss on Delhomme, that is far from the case.

This was a team loss from top down. O-Line stunk, our secondary lost Roddy White numerous times, etc., etc.

I am just done with Delhomme. The guy gives us almost zero chance to win.

watching delhomme’s expressions during the game it looks like he doesn’t believe in himself… why should we believe in him?
if seneca was in his place at the end i still think he would have given us more hope than delhomme just because he seemed less stressed out when the pocket was collapsing.

crazyL80 - October 10, 2010 reply

I should mention, that I am far less worried about our offensive line than QB.

Our offensive line had one poor game. Our QB’s have had multiple poor seasons.

Yes, our defense has some secondary problems but they only gave up 13 points.

this sounds dangerously close to last year.

Team is far better than last year, I can’t stress this enough. We are still a few players away from pulling out some of these wins, but I see a noticeable difference.

This. The Browns are way more competitive and teams are having a harder time beating us. The team also seems tougher and they are playing smash-mouth football. I feel we are building something of significance for the first time in a long while.

We need a few weapons (QB, WR), but I feel like the groundwork has been laid. The most important piece might be Heckert. If we have a guy that drafts consistently well, we should be a quality team for awhile.

Monsters of the Midway - October 11, 2010 reply

You are spot on. It is so easy to get caught up in the minutia of what happened out there. This team is drastically better than last year. We can play the ‘what if’ game for every loss the Browns have had this year. The wildest imagination couldn’t have done that with quite a few games from last season.

Biggest problem, the Browns need a #1 QB. There was near universal agreement about this going into the season and it is simply being confirmed now.

At least this team is competitive and watchable.

Also, not one single person believed we had solved our problem of needing a #1 QB by getting Wallace and Jake.

I think our problems at QB this year are being magnified because the rest of the team has been playing so well in comparison to what many expected this year and to what we are getting out of the QB spot.

i don’t know … 7 million guaranteed dollars feels like #1 qb money (even if only for one year).

thats also in an uncapped year. I doubt he gets 7 million if there was a cap

I meant in terms of talent. Even with the money we are paying JD I don’t think many people had much faith in him being a #1 QB.

Villeslgr - October 12, 2010 reply

And Carolina is still paying him more than we are this year.

Add front 7 to that list.

I agree, especially on defense.

We have areas that need improvement, but we have taken a step ahead from last season.

I totally agree. Just a little disturbing that the critiques that Bernie pointed out describe last years team quite well.

True, same issues, just further along it feels like. I say we only need a couple pieces, but these are not easy pieces to obtain.

We are still a few players away from pulling out some of these wins

I also agree. I hate to see the defense giving up the big plays, but in the end, how much is it really hurting the team? They only gave up 13 points. I’m disappointed that they allowed Turner to gain 140 yds. But he didn’t score and they held Ryan to under 200 yds passing. That’s terrific.

With a couple of players this defense could actually score once in a while and maybe they could win games like this when the offense is struggling. It’s a good defense, but this is what is keeping them from being a great defense.

And they still haven’t given up a rushing TD.

dawgtribe - October 11, 2010 reply

Totally agree again.

We’ve lost 3 gams on pick 6 interception returns????

Will we continue to lose games that way? NOt if Mangini & co can keep the team up- and they did just that last year.

LondonBrown - October 11, 2010 reply

I said entering the season, that Delhomme was capable of sinking a fine defensive performance by allowing interceptions for TDs. The focus of the offense should still be no turnovers, given our current roster it is our best chance to win. If our QB is throwing INT’s we aren’t going to win.

Monsters of the Midway - October 11, 2010 reply

Not just turnovers. Our offense has to play pretty much mistake free to get a win. Seneca’s pitch to no one a few weeks ago & Delhomme’s fumbled snap to Hillis on the goal line yesterday aren’t things the Browns can get away with if they want to win games.

totally agree. this team is a QB who doesn’t throw pick 6s and a playmaker who can force turnovers on D away from being a legitmate playoff contender.

I hate to say it, but you forgot to mention a #1 WR and a RB who can stay healthy and stay productive for an entire season. Despite the success of the running game, it hasn’t been the same guy running the ball. Harrison seems to have had his 15 min. of fame and Hardesty and Hillis have gotten injured.

Is it too much to ask for a RB that will give this team 5 or more 1,000 yd seasons?

if we had the right QB in place, I think we could survive with the playmakers we have. We wouldn’t be an amazing team, but we could be like the bengals were last year or were supposed to be this year. a legitimate playoff contender who has a sound offense and a great D.

I agree we need a #1 and probably some durability at RB. I just don’t see these as being as pressing.

I am ok with RB by committee. It kills fantasy points and what not, but I actually like using multiple backs during a game.

I am more into the authoritarian system of RBs.

SpecialBrownie - October 12, 2010 reply

Agreed. Though I wish I had more confidence in anyone not named Hillis right now.

I wish Hardesty was healthy. Or at least had an injury that wasn’t a knee.

Wallace had 1 bad INT in 4 games worth of play, Delhomme has had at least 3 in 1 total game of play. Not sure how you can say they’re the same. Wallace doesn’t have flashy stats or make highlight reels, but he can manage a game well and make enough plays to win.

When we only have 3 real CBs on the roster and blitz all the time, our DBs are occasionally going to get beat. O-Linemen, even Joe Thomas, are going to get beat. Occasionally a QB is going to throw an INT, but Delhomme throws, or almost throws ints on seemingly every drive. If the opposing team’s defenders had better hands he would have probably thrown at least 4 ints in one half of football. Comparing this to what Wallace has done is not even fair.

Delhomme has had one bad INT.

Apparently we aren’t watching the same game

there is no such thing as a good INT. All are bad in some form…except for maybe the one wallace INT where it was a perfect throw.

No one said anything about good INTs.

Henry Dawg was the one qualifying INTs as bad or not.

Bad or Not, not Bad or Good.

let me rephrase this: in my opinion, there is no such thing as a ‘not bad’ interception.

As it relates to QB performance (which is what is being discussed), there most certainly is such a thing as a ‘not bad’ interception.

possibly. the only one I have seen though that could qualify is the one wallace threw that was on target but was the receivers fault.

come on guys, the fact that we have to debate and deliniate between “good” ints and “bad” ints means we’ve lost the battle already.

Again, no one said anything about good INTs.

this is pathetic.

You’re inability to comprehend what you read? Yes. Pathetic.

Your inability to correctly use your? Pathetic.

The blind squirrel finally finds his nut. Well done.

I’z jump in it.

clearly both INTs in the TB game were bad, so it’s at least double your number.

i didn’t see sunday’s game (only a highlight of the pick 6), so i can’t really comment. but a pick 6 always sucks.

oh, but i think we’ve established that both delhomme and wallace suck, so there’s really not much point in arguing over it.

what is obvious is that colt mccoy is the best quarterback in the afc north.

/optimism

1. Look at hillis. the guy seemed to be limping on every run but toughed it out and was able to do his job (though didn’t do a great job)

Too bad nobody else could make some yards on the ground. We are really in need of Hardesty right now

I’ve been one of the biggest delhomme supporters on this site, and after that performance today I’m hoping we stick with wallace for awhile. not only did jake make some bad decisions, he looked like a beaten, clueless man out there.

and it was extremely frustrating that he threw the 2nd int. we were in the redzone, he could have just taken the sack and still kept us in a position to score points. this one hurt today.

Dawg Nuts - October 10, 2010 reply

Bottom line,Delhomme was injured and should never been put in that game,he could hardly stand on that leg. But he sucked it up and played the best he could.If he was 100% we would be winning all these games,but he’s not he’s hurt and not a good hurt, it’s a hurt ankle with that injury, it’s hurts to walk, let alone play quarterback in the NFL.
This was a coaching staff loss, ALL THE WAY!

while I agree that the injury has a significant impact, he threw a pass into triple coverage that should have been easily intercepted; he threw a few others into coverage that could have been intercepted; and the second interception was ridiculous, we were in the redzone, if he just tucks the ball we still have it in a position to score, but instead he threw it while being hit. he has to know that he’ll have no control of where that ball goes.

his body language and decision making were atrocious; and as I said above, this is coming from someone who was one of his biggest supporters before the season.

Dawg Nuts - October 11, 2010 reply

Whoa. Was just in the car listening to the Charger game. Their radio guys are biased and rude as hell. They were calling the Raider players every name in the book. Pretty bad.

On the brighter side of things – I thought the defense played hard and well. Eric Wright had a comeback game today. Hope Seneca gets better quick, I know Jake was banged up but I think he is a better fit for whatever we are trying to do. Not many mistakes by the Cyclone.

Miles Austin is still a beast.

Was that Jason Campbell with a Touchdown??

Hmmmmm,… the possibilities that could have been

Though I am not happy with the loss, I do think that most of us realize that this team is playing better than last year, and certainly better than the end of the Romeo Era.

We can talk every aspect of the team and the games to death, and apparently we all enjoy doing that, but what this team has is a startling lack of really good players at the offensive skill positions: QB, RB, TE & WR are all miracles of mediocrity.

JamesPowell - October 10, 2010 reply

That reminds me. If I had to play one game against Peyton Manning for my life, I think I’d want Romeo as my defensive coordinator. Crennel made Manning look average, again.

i don’t know … i think an awful lot of that NE credit has to go to belichick.

But Romeo shut Manning down in Cleveland and now Kansas City.

The Ryan Mathews – Mike Tolbert situation in San Diego is still somewhat difficult to decipher fantasy wise. With the points he’s been getting, Tolbert has been a must start. Today he’s getting more carries and the TD. But at the same time Mathews has the yardage and an average that’s more than 6 times better.

I own them both. (With Foster, Addai, Benson, & Greene to boot)

You would think that San Diego would like to get Mathews on track

You’d think. People keep saying Tolbert’s value is dropping and dropping, yet he’s the one getting the rushes, and redzone opportunities.

I thought I had Mathews? ha

I’m referring to my other league.

Ah, my bad.

I’m trying my hardest in both leagues, it’s just the $80 dollar factor (also in person bragging rights) makes my other league a much higher priority.

Also, with 14 people, most of which are paying close attention, the free agent pool ran clean extremely fast, so generally there’s a lot less to ask or talk about. People are just forced to work with what they got.

Yeah, really. Our league has absolute crap available.

Steve Johnson? (buffalo wr)?

I picked him up this week. I had a feeling…

Plus, my backup WRs were crap (robiskie i.e.) and my WR 1 and 2 had byes.

I’ve got a theory on Joe Thomas’ lousy performance. It was 79 degrees in Cleveland today – probably 85 on the field. If I’m not mistaken Joe’s a Wisconsin native, has already said he doesn’t like the heat and lost 15 pounds in one hot summer practice. Let’s hope we can chalk it up to that.

He’s had one terrible game in his 53 game career. I don’t think it much matters what we chalk it up to, it’s safe to assume we won’t get many more of these kind of games.

Not to mention he was facing an All-Pro in Abraham.

Sometimes you just need to tip your cap. I still think he is the best LT in the league and super human, he just forgot his cape today.

Despite today, I still take Immovable Object over Unstoppable Force 9 times out of 10.

I am beginning to believe that the sun is Supermans Kryptonite though, just sayin.

Seems plausible.

THIS. Abraham gives even the most athletic LTs fits with his explosion. he has schooled many a good LT

This seems to be happening to a lot of guys, they are just getting gassed. Obviously you won’t spell a LT, but we are so thin at all our positions that guys can barely get rest. It’s pretty clear from our late losses that they can’t maintain their level of play for four quarters.

Wow, New Orleans lost to Arizona? What the hell?

Drew Brees threw three interceptions. Damn, how the mighty have fallen this week.

and were two returned for tds?

My three wideouts were A. Boldin, G. Jennings and M. Clayton. Grand total for the three? 2 points. Are you kiddin me?

it’s that kind of week.

Matt Schaub got me 3 points. I don’t want to hear it.

He got me negative in another league.

The only week I benched him, he threw for 500 yards. Go figure.

Suh’s late hit: $7500
Ward’s monster hit: $15000
Owens’ tweet: $25000

Managing to figure out the logic behind NFL fines: Priceless.

owens tweet about what?

It was actually a tweet letting fans now that one lucky fan wearing an Owens jersey would win a football signed by Ochocinco and Owens.

?WTF?

Apparently, if it’s within 90 minutes of a game it’s going to cost 25k.

HORAY!!! Collinsworth is coming on!!

He kinda looks like Butt-head.

Anybody else think Singletary’s response there just seemed to be delivered very oddly?

It sounded like he didn’t have any praise for Kolb, so without directly dissing him, he cited the advantages that Vick would have presented over him.

Chris Pokorny - October 10, 2010 reply

I was fine with the answer itself, it was just the way he delivered it that seemed really strange. Like he was never in front of a camera before, or high, neither of which are the case, which is why I thought it was weird.

Did he have pants on?

Oh, right. I was just saying I thought he delivered it oddly because he was about to trash Kolb, but then thought, “shit, I can’t say that…” and meanwhile looked like a deer in the headlights.

Chris Pokorny - October 11, 2010 reply

Ah yes, that makes sense.

Woot! I won fantasy this week 95-54! Akers for Philly still has to play, but it’s not like he’ll be getting -40 points. Thank God starting Moore (who had 0 points) didn’t screw me over.

The bad news is that Aaron Rodgers has a concussion and Alex Smith is my other QB. I shouldn’t have dropped Sanchez for him.

And a smart move for me to pick up/start Chicago’s D. Dallas’s had -1 points.

Also, Miles Austin is the man with 22 points.

Aaron Rodgers has a concussion

I am pretty pleased overall again. I think the wins will come later in the season like last year, and I am really not that concerned with our W/L this year. There are definitely some positives to build on, and our defense is far better than anything we have thrown out there in recent memory.

I just can’t have that attitude on Sundays… I want to win sooo badly.

Trust me I want to win, I just think I came into this season with reduced expectations for the win column. Tougher schedule than last year and still a lot of growing to be done by our young guys. The thing I like is that our most important players are all young.

yeah.

winning doesn’t matter, as long as there are positives.

there is some legitimacy to this point, but ultimately, it’s one that losers cling to.

think NE, PIT, IND etc are patting themselves on the back and pointing out “positives” after they lose?

no, they are FIXING THE EFFING PROBLEM and focusing on WINNING the next game.

culture change is slow and steady, but that doesn’t mean we as fans ever have to be accepting of mediocity or less.

The difference between the Browns and NE, PIT, and IND are that we are a rebuilding team while the others are playoff contenders.

Also despite our rich history, we are still an expansion team. Our historical team, which didn’t have to build a team from scratch 10 yrs ago after it was stolen, is competitive almost every year.

I’d be interested in knowing how you’d propose “FIXING THE EFFING PROBLEM”?

From where I am sitting, we just don’t have a very talented football team. We’ve seen that we have a FUNCTIONING team when everyone is healthy, but today Wallace went down and Delhomme didn’t look like he belonged anywhere close to the field today with his ankle.

Eventually you just have to face the facts: We are not a winning ball club. You can talk all you want about “maggot Mangini and his butt buddy OC Daboll,” but you just make yourself look like an idiot. They aren’t winning coaches because we aren’t a winning team.

I’d love to see you go in and come up with a game plan for a team that has WRs that can’t catch, QB’s that are really only decent backups, and TEs that are average to above average (generously).

We’re a mediocre team that is improving from week to week. Like em said, we’re a rebuilding team. The other teams are winning teams. Once we’re a winning team, we can probably start expecting wins more than we expect improvement.

Yea, exactly. We are a rebuilding team putting up a fight. We need pieces still and we need to get younger. At least we have an identity and some defensive depth.

I’ve enjoyed watching the team in each outing this year. I’ve felt they’ve had a chance to win in every game. Last year I felt they gave up a lot and were not competitive at all. I felt like walking away from the TV and doing something productive instead. Not this year. The games have been fun to watch and the Browns players have been making a lot of good plays in between giving up a few really bad plays that typically result in the loss.

If we pull out 2 games we should have won (KC and TB), the attitudes would be a lot different. We still wouldn’t have a lot to show for at the end of the year given the tough schedule, but this team is playing right with teams that are going to the playoffs (Batl, Atl, maybe KC.)

Maybe Tampa Bay. They’re 3-1.

Forgot about that. I am not a believer, but sure they have a shot.

I can’t believe Tampa Bay AND KC are both 3-1 this year. I’d have never thought it. I think they have turned out to be better than anyone thought.

Someone who can figure these things out….where do Browns rank in opponent winning percentage?

I’m not sure about that but we do play 3 teams this year that seem to be truly bad (which is what I thought about Tampa Bay and KC). Namely: Buffalo, Carolina and Jacksonville.

Jax is 3-2 and beat the Colts last week.

True. Just noticed that. They aren’t that bad thought they looked worse early in the season.

They have beaten up on some bad teams though. their opponent winning % is only 40%. I have only calculated winning %s of 18 of the 30 teams and they rank 28 out of 32 teams in point differential.

They won 1 game, but the way they are playing, I doubt they win more than 7

I am figuring it out. I am done with my calculations for the night, but out of the 18 teams I have calculated (all the AFC and the redskins and giants) we have the 2nd hardest SOS. The only team with a harder SOS is the steelers and thats less than 1% harder than ours.

Here it is for the AFC.

Wow.

This also doesn’t include week 5.

Now after the games today, the browns are up to 73% and the steelers are down to 74%

Still, I do notice we have the opponent’s highest winning % overall

So think about this. We have the 2nd highest opponent winning percentage in the AFC and could feasibly be 3-2 right now. We are 1-4 which sucks, but have been competitive in every game.

It’s very frustrating the ways we find to lose.

While this doesn’t help us much this year, the fact that the team is competitive and could still end up with a high draft position could spell a nice upswing in 2011.

JustBob - October 11, 2010 reply

Thanks! This is awesome. It helps the Browns fan feel a little better but not completely well.

Same. Although I don’t get to watch many games where I’m at, but I listen on the radio. These dang games are ruining my Sunday afternoon naps!!! But I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Except I would like us to win the games a little more. But it’s still really enjoyable for me.

I think his frustration is that teams like the Pats, Colts, and Steelers just continue to plug in random people nobody’s ever heard of and continue to win consistently.

It’s easy to say when we get all these awesome players we’ll be a winning team and the coaches will be winners, but the fact is that is not realistic. The coaches need to figure out how to win with what they’ve got. All our players are pros so it’s pretty ridiculous to say they can’t catch – they can, we need to have schemes that allow them to get open and our QBs need to find them when they are.

Overall I’ld say we’ve done a fair job and what we really need is some more depth. I think some of the biggest blame on the coaches has to be their roster selections for example, keeping only 2 active RBs, 3 active CBs, and a dozen LBs. This is a coaching issue. I wasn’t a fan of Brandon MacDonald, but he made plays (can’t tackle for crap) but I would have kept him until we had more depth at corner. This is a coaching issue.

You may not like the way the guy said it, but he is correct that our coaches make bad decisions. Our players aren’t perfect, but they aren’t horrible and they play hard. Our biggest issue seems to be game management, like not running the ball enough with a lead, leaving average CBs on an island, or not being able to replace injured players because you didn’t activate enough guys.

Active/inactive is a coaching issue. Brandon MacDonald was released by Heckert.

I am not losing sleep over McDonald.

Really? I cry every night ;).

I danced a jig when they cut his worthless ass. Just reminding Henry that we have a GM now.

Good points. This is a expansion of the question “are the coaches getting the most out of the players they have?” It is hard to say but the strength of schedule discussion above has to be part of it. Match ups are very important in this analysis but I don’t totally believe the coaches are getting the max from their players on offense. I’m more convinced of it on defense.

On the positive side, our defense continues to turn me into a believer. We allowed a team with a Pro Bowl QB, RB, TE and WR to score 13 points. That’s awesome.

I have no information on this, but am I the only person who is scared that Hillis may have really done some damage today? It seemed to me that Hillis re-injured his thigh on his TD catch, yet he played the entire game on one leg.

Going into the game, someone (I believe ESPN), reported that this injury is the same one that really hampered Hillis in college. I admire his toughness, but I worry that maybe his toughness could hurt him in the long run. I can’t imagine a thigh muscle injury getting better by running on it injured.

And can someone explain why, with your starter already being dinged up, you only activate two tailbacks? After all, we had 9 LB’s active.

I felt the same about Hillis. If you’ve ever played anything injured you know that it is never a good idea. You pay for it. His toughness is impressive but I’m thinking the coaches should have stepped in and sat him so he could get better.

The injury from college was a bone issue, not a muscle issue. Calcification of the thigh bone, which, I think, is a physiological issue rather than a contact related injury.

FYI: Hillis fractured three vertebrae in college. Missed two games with that injury. The guy is tough. Maybe too tough for is own good.

Calcification of the thigh bone, which, I think, is a physiological issue rather than a contact related injury.

This is what ESPN reported this morning, and I did a little googling and didn’t find much.

But as Brownsyup notes above, it seemed as if Hillis was in serious pain. I admire his toughness but I don’t want this to be a lingering problem going forward. If he is hurt, he needs to sit until he is fully healthy.

He pulled his muscle in practice and probably should not have played this week. I don’t think it’s a long-term issue.

One of the very few things I heard on the WKNR show that I actually liked was they pointed out that with Hillis’s running style, he’s probably not going to last long taking the beating he does when he’s carrying the ball as much as he is. I think that until there’s a little more of a balance between Hillis and Harrison, he’s probably going to be injured a fairly good deal.

If Hillis pulled / tore a quad muscle I will light candles and say prayers to him on Sunday. I’ve done both and can’t comprehend walking quickly, let alone running and pushing 250 lb. linebackers around. Tough indeed.

I thought I read it was a pull. Pulls can range from not that bad to essentially a tear. I’ve had pulls that were playable but not pleasant.

And can someone explain why, with your starter already being dinged up, you only activate two tailbacks? After all, we had 9 LB’s active

This, 1,000 times. 3 RBs is minimum, in my mind, if everyone is healthy. Knowing Hillis’ condition made the Davis inactive a nearly unforgivable move.

If anything, they assumed to use Vickers in a pinch.

That would be a poor plan.

Vickers has played in 62 games. He has 28 carries.

Agree

They should have put Cribbs back there.

our defense continues to turn me into a believer. We allowed a team with a Pro Bowl QB, RB, TE and WR to score 13 points. That’s awesome.

completely agreed.

think about this: the browns have surrendered 97 points this season (19.4 ppg average). 21 of those have come on pick 6’s (i’m including ronde’s pick that was returned to the 2-inch line), making the defense’s responsibility 76 points (15.2 average). that is strong to quite strong, especially when you consider that the best player on that side of the ball is …. uhhh …. roth? outstanding work by the defensive players and staff.

i can’t recall off the top of my head, but how many of our other turnovers have come in scoring position for the opponents? does anyone have that number? maybe 15.2 is still high…

yeah. the turnovers have definitely killed us. we seem to turn it over at the most inopportune times.

And a lot of this lies with the subpar QB play we have seen (though I would take this over anything we have had in a while)

As I watched the Browns play today I was proud of one thing… they played with a lot of courage considering how banged up they were. Hillis was the poster child for this. I felt sorry for them in a way as I think they played VERY hard and it just wasn’t enough. I feel the Browns are a team that is on the cusp of becoming decent… sort of like KC last year. There are a lot of pieces in place—they just have to get a couple more playmakers and a real starting QB and I think the team will become competitive. But not this year.

Big Daddy Hickman - October 10, 2010 reply

Why is no one talking about Colt McCoy?? I’m curious as to what he can do for some reason. Perhaps because who we have at QB can’t seem to get it done right now.

He is definitely a project after watching him in pre-season but with our current QBs I’m wondering if we might not see him get some significant play later in the season.

If we lean heavily on the run game, I wouldn’t mind him getting some action.

If we are going to keep throwing the ball 39 times like today, I don’t want him in.

keep throwing the ball 39 times like today, I don’t want him in.

That’s two problems mentioned in one sentence. I completely agree, McCoy is far to raw to have passing 39 times. But the bigger issue is… why the hell are we passing 39 times?

This.

I could it happening towards the end of the season if we’re completely out of contention and the FO wants to get a glimpse of what McCoy can bring.

I’d still rather wait until next year. I would say the end of this season, but I don’t want his first games to be frigid weather since he is coming from Texas.

I’m just wondering if we can go into next year without really knowing what we have unless we are convinced already that we have a backup or #3 in McCoy. I’m not excited about going forward another year with Delhomme and/or Wallace as the #1. Maybe there will be an experienced free agent? I can’t imagine who that might be…

Well, I doubt Kolb and Vick are both Eagles next year. There is also the draft. I am positive Holmgren will constantly be looking to solve the QB problem. He’s had one year, and like Delhomme/Wallace or not, but I think we can all agree that they are better than Quinn/Anderson. So he upgraded QB from historically awful to merely below average. Let’s give him some time to work his magic.

I know this might kick off a huge Kolb-hating thread but I’d really, really like to see the Browns pick up Kolb. I think he would be a significant upgrade to either of our #1 poseurs. Please… not another flame war about Kolb or how you say his name. I’ve read it all already and I see your points. But I remain someone who would like to see Kolb a Brown.
/agree about the upgrade from last year and the capabilities of Holmgren/Heckert. I have no reason to doubt them so far.

I too wouldn’t mind Kolb as a Brown. Trade deadline is tuesday, not that I think it’ll happen, but I would like it if the price wasn’t too high.

Browns town - October 10, 2010 reply

Kolb finally got a shot at playing a whole, healthy game and a week of practicing as the starting QB for today. He had a great day with over a 100 QB rating. When he stepped in for kolb against a team thats playing pretty well, he was solid. Overall, he has performed significantly better when healthy, than anyone we have here…plus he has much more upside.

You mean stepped in for Vick?

yeah. He didn’t step in for himself when he got injured, unless he has multiple personalities.

Or clones like Mooncamping.

I REALLY thought we should’ve seen him in this game. Not because Delhomme was playing horrendously, but because from all the things I was hearing on the radio he seemed like he was just too hurt to play effectively.

I feel the same way but I can see the coaches not wanting to look like they were throwing in the towel with the game as close as it was. I do think Delhomme was pretty immobile but I think putting in McCoy would have looked like they were giving up.

I think the fact that the coaching staff prefered to put in an injured Delhomme instead of McCoy says a lot. He’s too raw. They aren’t even considering him to play in the next few weeks if Wallace and Delhomme aren’t healed up. Here’s a quote from the PD I read this morning.

Mangini said that Delhomme was a better option than using third quarterback Colt McCoy.
The status of Wallace and Delhomme for next Sunday’s game against Pittsburgh is unknown. Mangini said it was “too early” to contemplate finding an emergency quarterback to get ready for the Steelers.

If the O-line couldn’t handle ATL’s front four, then there’s no way McCoy could have.

dawgtribe - October 11, 2010 reply

Maybe we see a Brett Ratliff signing.

I’ve heard a rumor about Garcia… can you believe it?

Haha, San Fran fans chanting “We want Carr!”

He’s not gunna help them.

Hahaha, looks like the fans are going to get what they want, but I’m with you, Carr isn’t going to pull them out of this mess.

SF is a HUGE let down this year.

Yup. Carr is coming in. CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

We need to get on the phone and work a deal for Alex Smith. Get him cheap and see what he’s got.

We’ve seen what he’s got.

And what he’s got is better than what we’ve got. As sad as that is.

I agree. His line sucks.

Smith just said FU to everybody. Good drive.

Smith has been good enough to win on a Singletary team when he’s had stability and/or a good OC.

I don’t think SF would trade him.

Hahaha, these fans are the only reason this game is worth watching.

you know, with 2 injured QBs, signing jamarcus russel suddenly doesn’t seem like such a crazy idea.

Yes is does.

Yes is does.

North Coast Flea - October 12, 2010 reply

Yes is does.

Dawg Nuts - October 11, 2010 reply

Yes is does

Yes it does. There are way better alternatives out there than that guy.

Browns town - October 10, 2010 reply

what free agent qbs are availible? i can’t really think of any besides jamarcus.

Garcia

No F’n way.

He already quit on us once.

Garcia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Russell.

If we want to win a game tomorrow? Yes.

If we are talking about a possible QB of the future? Absolutely not.

QB of the future will never be Russell.

EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER… EVER.

Did I mention ever?

Player A: 540-909, 29-31 TD-INT, 6.17 YPA
Player B: 354-680, 18-23 TD-INT, 6.0 YPA

This is two QB’s after their first three seasons. Want to guess who they are?

Player A: Drew Brees. Player B: JaMarcus Russell

I’m glad you are so sure that JaMarcus will never be anything good. Considering he was drafted by a head coach who didn’t want him in the most toxic organization, is anyone surprised at what happened?

I’m still waiting for someone to give me a downside to signing JaMarcus to a two year minimum salary deal.

Brees really loves that purple drank huh?

You forgot the fatness and work ethic.

So now it’s because of his substance abuse?

Didn’t seem to stop Brett Favre.

Anyone have a downside to signing JaMarcus yet?

Favre is good though.

He wasn’t when he was an addict in Atlanta.

He sucks.

This.

This and a rec.

That hasn’t stopped us from signing quarterbacks before.

Give me Delhomme over Jamarcus.

I love it – let’s do it!

If our coaches are for real, they can take his talent and move him to the next level. Good coaches do that. Raiders coaches beat each other up and turn #1 picks into losers.

HenryDawg - October 11, 2010 via mobile reply

Isn’t he going to jail for that though? I don’t think we would sign a guy with substance abuse and driving issues after the stallworth thing.

Also, Favre is like a child out there.

SB beat me to the drug addict joke.

Brownie's Year - October 11, 2010 reply

he’s with the UFL though, right? is he allowed to just leave his ufl team and sign with an nfl team?

Yes. Its in his contract.

ohhh. daunte culpepper and josh mccown are also options, then

It may not necessarily be in their contracts though…

I only know of Garcia.

Monsters of the Midway - October 11, 2010 reply

Actually ESPN reported that when Garcia was talking to the Eagles after Vick went down he couldn’t play until November when the UFL sesaon ends.

It would cost the NFL team 150k to release the player from the contract.

Source.

Chump change.

Or we could sign Brett Ratliff off the Patriots practice squad.

this is the far better option, considering he already knows the offense.

Welcome to my bandwagon.

The tin foil hats are on the left.

Population 2

Three. I joined a couple of weeks ago.

I want my QB to have an IQ above low.

Haha. A very modest way of saying Jamarcus is an idiot.

I like him because he’s a zero risk option. We’d have nothing but a league minimum contract tied up in him, and if his stupid is a problem he can be cut immediately.

I am just hesitant that no one in the league is even interested in him right now.

this speaks volumes to me. if absolutely nobody thought he was worth taking a flier on, there’s probably not much there.

That doesn’t bother me. Holmgren is supposed to be the best QB guy alive.

This. If Holmgren thinks Jamarcus can turn out to be something, I trust his judgement over mine.

obviously he doesn’t think Jamarcus can turn into something.

Basically what I was implying.

he’s not coaching, so that doesn’t matter.

More importantly, Holmgren doesn’t want him, so what does that tell you?

I see virtually no upside. That move would be a joke. I’d much rather pass.

3 and a foot. I kinda have my foot in at this point.

I’m in.

Dawg Nuts - October 11, 2010 reply

Isn’t he going to prison?

And the Reds are done.

They were done in April. lol jk

They were a year early. Too young, too inexperienced.

Don’t count them out for next year. They remind me of my young, low payed A’s.

Yeah, their going to be a good, competitive team for the next several years. Tons of Major League ready talent in Triple A, lots of good young pitchers, and a competent front office.

They’re*

I’m going to have to start following you around now.

I’ll have to start calling you kwoog then.

Or BB

I felt this way in 2007…

I felt this way in 2007…

I felt this way in 2007.

Brownie's Year - October 11, 2010 reply

I felt this way in 2007… about the Indians. Except for the competent front office, though.

dawgtribe - October 11, 2010 reply

the indians have an outstanding front office.

I’ll agree with you even though I did feel the Indians were set up for a prolonged run as well. The key is the pitching under control. The Indians had pitching, but all were guys that were about to leave the team. If you have young pitching, you will be a contender every year.

Who was “about to leave the team”? Sabathia through 08, Westbrook through 10, Fausto through 12(?). I wasn’t worried about that at all.

Well losing CC alone should count for a ton. Paul Byrd, while only marginal, was a useful rotation plug that was also a free agent. Then you had Cliff and Westbrook only under contract for two more years. Fausto, I will give you, but he was a non-factor for the following two years. The young under control pitching just wasn’t there.

Cliff and Westbrook were under contract for 3 more years (08, 09, 10). CC was under contract another full year. Carmona looked better at that time than Cueto or Volquez do now. We were losing our #4 starter (Byrd), hoping to replace him with another decent vet or that Lee could bounce back. 2008 was the most disappointing Indians team I’ve ever seen.

Yea, I guess my main point is at the time it looked like we had minor league pitching depth, but we didn’t in hindsight. We had a slew of soft tossing lefties and Adam Miller. This only really reinforces your point though, things change quickly.

Right. Obviously, in hind sight we were shallow in pitching both in the pen and starters. We also were too reliant on two hitters for all our power. But after 2007, I really thought…

The Reds don’t yet have a pitcher as good as either CC or Cliff Lee. They’ve got a number who could develop into legit aces very soon (Cueto, Volquez, Bailey, and Chapman being the most likely candidates), but as of right now it’s a staff full of 2’s and 3’s (and no 4’s or 5’s).

I’m not sure about contracts, or even where to find the information. I know they have Chapman signed through 2016. Volquez is 27, Cueto is 24, and the rest of the Reds key pitchers are 23 or younger and all but Volquez are still on their rookie contracts. All I know for certain is that Walt Jockety knows his shit, and I trust that he’s on top of things.

This Reds team is a couple of years from being as good as that ’07 Cleveland team. The Reds made the playoffs this year by whooping ass on sub .500 teams at a record pace (I think something like 65 of their wins were over teams with losing records). If the pitching continues to develop, and if the talent in triple A is as good as advertised (blue chip replacements for Rolen, Phillips, Hernandez/Hanigan, and Gomes/Nix are all in Louisville and all look more or less MLB ready), the next few years could be very interesting.

Or very disappointing. I hear what you’re saying.

Cot’s baseball contracts is my favorite baseball reference site.

True, this could be more like Cleveland ’05 than Cleveland ’07

Excellent manager too

HenryDawg - October 11, 2010 via mobile reply

He’s slowly grown on me. I was all gloom and doom when they first signed him, but he’s been pretty solid.

The stat-obsessive hate him, but his teams in general have outperformed expectations. If you look at his moves on a micro level, there is probably a lot to quibble with.

well know they got the experience of making it to the playoffs and playing in the playoffs. they definitely have a very nice young core.

Maclin and Akers screwed me against Drexel. Now I need two guys to gain 25 points tomorrow.

SF gets the ball back! HAHA

interception. D’OH!

Is it too early to call for McCoy to start if Wallace is injured?
The way I see it, if Delhomme is going to play the way he has, we might as well have McCoy in getting the real game experience so we can see if he is going to be terrible and if so we can act accordingly in the upcoming draft.

Large L - October 11, 2010 reply

Too early for me

I don’t think McCoy should play this year. Delhomme should get better as his ankle heals. And I don’t think Wallace’s injury is all that serious. The last thing I want is to start McCoy for 2 weeks in the middle of the season and then have everyone make assumptions about him, good or bad.

I guess I agree with this. It’d be nice to see what we have, but it’s probably just too early.

Terrible Terry Tate - October 11, 2010 reply

Damn

This article hits harder than a shipyard anvil on Delhomme. And I don’t think it’s all that fair either.

For me, two things won the game for the Falcons, the first was knocking Wallace out of the game and the second was that ridiculous play by Biermann.

I take great heart in the fact that it’s not every week you’re going to get beat by something that special. For three quarters we matched a 4 and 1 team blow-for-blow, despite having a banged up running back and a banged up QB.

Forget 1 and 4, this football team is good and it’s a lot better than it was.

I think we do need to accept that we don’t have the offensive playmakers to steam into a unassailable lead, nor do we have the ability to just march down the field when we really need to. But on the latter we’re closer than we were. Delhomme on one leg was moving the ball before Biermann came at him, unopposed.

With the play going down like it was, best bet would have been to hold the ball and take the sack, but hindsight is a wonderful thing when you’re mid-throw. Once that play happens, that’s basically the ball game because you’re left needing a number of things to go for you to even consider the win at that point.

Okay so yeah, he bounces the ball of the O lineman’s helmet when chasing the game, but it’s a tipped ball, it happens, particularly against a good pass rush.

Don’t let no touchdowns and two interceptions fool you, this football team has competed in every game it has played this season. Am I right in thinking we still haven’t given up a rushing touchdown and have blocked two field goals this season?

Mangini, the GM and Rob Ryan need time. If we can improve the offense like we have the defense, we’ll be a contender. On another day we’d have strangled the life from the Falcons, just need longer drives when we have the ball.

Healthy Wallace, Cribbs and healthy Hillis with a dose of Davis – NOT Harrison – and the game would have turned out a lot differently.
And yes I am aware of Harrison having rushing records but not this season and he has not earned his spot this year. I still feel he got the yards from beat teams and second stringers last year. Sorry – I will never be on the Harrison bandwagon.

browndawgbacker - October 11, 2010 reply

I would like to see some plays where Vickers is blocking for Harrison before I count Harrison out.

The Brown Note - October 11, 2010 reply

I believe there were 4 or 5 of them yesterday.

I think this coaching staff needs to find a way to see if they can rescue Harrison.

I would also like to see Vickers blocking for Davis to see if he can do any better before anointing him the better option.

JustBob - October 11, 2010 reply

This team HAS been competitive in EVERY game this year! Woof! Woof!

tribe71 - October 11, 2010 reply

Well said. Rec.

I agree. I think the bottom line is that this team is much better than last year, but not yet good enough to handle a few key injuries against a good team. I’ll take that for now.

On the big play, neither the back nor the tight end stayed in to block; both went out as receivers. No one was there to even attempt to block Biermann.

Assuming that’s not just a busted assignment, I think that the play there is that Jake has to read that guy, and get the ball out quickly to one of the open receivers (the back) on the left. That’s the play’s design, right. Jake simply muffed it (i’m his ankle didn’t help).

I’m not so sure that it’s a designed play so much as a blitz read. If you’ve got a back out in the flat wide open because the guy who is supposed to be covering him blitzed, you have to throw him the ball. You see that read all the time, and you also see a lot of batted and tipped balls as well. Rarely do you see someone make the kind of play Biermann made though.

Alex Smith had one batted back in his face on almost the exact same look last night. Gore was wide open in the flat with no one within 20 yards of him. Smith gets it over the blitzing linebacker and the niners win that game.

Agree. Though the more I think about it, the more I don’t like the play call. I’d be tempted to leave in a lot of protection with Jake in that state.

Yea, he needs to lob that ball, it’s a TD if he completes the pass and a W.

Might’ve been a win for the Browns with a little loft by Jake too.

Peter King mentioned TJ Ward as his likely runner-up for defensive rookie of the year to Suh in his MMQB column today

That would be awesome.

what did TJ ward do in the game yesterday? I remember a lot of people on the game thread after I had to stop watching were talking about Ward for some reason.

Blocked a field goal, for one.

6 tackles, 1 blocked field goal. Gonzalez did not run ape on us.

thank you. I saw people saying block and I asked my dad if he did anything special (he went to the game) but he didn’t remember anything.

A block and containing gonzalez is impressive.

Pluto thinks Rubin had a great game as well. I didn’t notice.

we can't always pick up on everything.

I have thought Rubin has been great this year.

harder to notice when a nose tackle has a great game.

I actually thought Tubes made a few nice plays.

He almost had a strip of Turner at the start of the game. He really does a nice job of attacking the ball when he tackles.

I was glad to see someone with Pluto’s profile take notice. It sometimes seems like Rubin’s admirers are limited to myself and a handful of people here.

He’s been great and one of the biggest reasons our run D has been so good for the past 10 games or so.

I am on the Tuba Bandwagon. I really have loved what I’ve seen from him this year.

We need to start a Tuba fan group.

I call shotgun on that bandwagon.

Monsters of the Midway - October 13, 2010 reply

The last couple of games he’s not only making a lot of plays against the run, but has also shown up trying to close out some of the short pass plays. The guy definitely has a motor.

JustBob - October 12, 2010 reply

I saw quite a few plays where Michael Turner looked down to find Rubin hanging on his leg. Hard to go anywhere with 300lbs pulling you back to earth.

Boss Ward is also leading the team in tackles.

Delhomme,Hillis, neither one should have played in this game.Delohmme, could not move around on his ankle,he could not set to throw or step up in the pocket.Hillis (very tough guy)just couldn’t play his game.Colt McCOY should have been our backup quarterback(I don’t care he’s a rookie)He said he knows all the plays and he’s ready.I know one thing for sure,it would have been better than half a quarterback.Harrison should have been the runner for this game,as the game went on we would have found a way to break some runs. This lose goes to the coaching staff.You have no chance to win with injured players.So what do we do next week,now that we made sure our injured players stay that way.I like Mangini,but, he blew it today.
THE PLAY CALLING SUCKED AGAIN

Also tweet from Ryan Clark (steelers safety) this morning: “On a break from team meetings. Browns are actually a good team. They’ve had a chance to win every game.”

Well it’s nice to hear we’re being taken seriously.

Well. Gracias.

Insult through excessive flattery.

Also. More flash. I know we saw a handful yesterday, but it easily could have been more. Wallace, Delhomme, Hillis all banged up? FLASH.

We should have been using it the entire second half.

Would have been happy if we went flash package on 4th and 2 instead of kicking that field goal. I felt like Jake tripping was the play that lost the game for us. A TD there changes everything.