Today is the day that will determine which two teams will face off on February 7 in the Super Bowl. We almost had a rarity in today's NFL era where both the AFC and NFC Championships would have featured the No. 1 vs. the No. 2 seeds, but the New York Jets prevented that by stunning the San Diego Chargers last week. Will Peyton Manning be able to lead the Colts past the Jets' Darrelle Revis? Can Brett Favre lead the Vikings to a Super Bowl in his first season with the team by outshooting Drew Brees' offense?
If you would like to comment on either of the games, whether it be before, during, or after the game(s), please do so here. The brief previews are after the jump.
AFC Divisional: New York Jets vs. Indianapolis Colts (3:00 PM, CBS) [See SB Nation Coverage Here]
When you look at the New York Jets minus Braylon Edwards, you can have an appreciation for how they've been able to win two playoff games thus far against division leaders. Last week, they ended the Chargers' long winning streak on the road. Despite being down a little bit early, the defense held it together and did not allow the height advantage of San Diego's receivers bring them down.
CB Darrelle Revis continues to be amazing for the Jets; you'd think that one of these times, Revis would get beat on even a simple 10-yard pattern or something. Any time a throw goes his way though, it seems to get intercepted or tipped away. Will that be the case for Peyton Manning, arguably the league's best quarterback? Revis should be lined up against Reggie Wayne most of the day, but that could be a problem for the Jets. Manning has no problem not going to a receiver -- there have been times where he's thrown the ball to someone like Dallas Clark almost 10 times in one drive.
Offensively, the Jets have stuck to a sound running game. There entire gameplan revolves around their offense not falling behind by two possessions though, because if they do, odds are that Mark Sanchez will have to put more weight on his shoulders. He's done very well as a supplement to the running game, but if the ground game has to be abandoned, I still have my doubts in him.
These two teams met not to long ago. The Colts had a 14-0 record in Week 16 and were battling the Jets in Indianapolis. The Colts had the advantage in the third quarter, but the Jets were still very much in the game. Indianapolis then pulled their starters and watched backup quarterback Curtis Painter hand the Jets a win. It was a much-needed win for the Jets, but the Colts' coaching staff could care less.
The Jets have had a great run, but it ends today against the the Colts. Colts win by 14.
NFC Divisional: Minnesota Vikings vs. New Orleans Saints (6:40 PM, FOX) [See SB Nation Coverage Here]
I don't think there's any arguing that this is the best NFC Championship match the league could have asked for. Although both teams struggled the last few weeks of the season (compared to their red-hot starts), both teams were unstoppable against two powerhouses in the Arizona Cardinals and Dallas Cowboys last week.
Each team is led by well-respected, team-leading quarterbacks. Brett Favre has had the best passing season of his career, and Drew Brees has been Drew Brees.
The thing you have to appreciate about both teams, and the reason why both teams are so dangerous, is the amount of different weapons/playmakers they have. Since Adrian Peterson's struggles began, neither team has really had a "go-to-guy" (not including the quarterbacks) on offense.
The Saints can get you with any one of Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem, Jeremy Shockey, Reggie Bush, or Pierre Thomas. The Vikings can get you with any one of Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Bernard Berrian, Visanthe Shiancoe, Adrian Peterson, or Chester Taylor.
Both teams feature an array of defensive specialists too, from the Vikings' Jared Allen to the Saints' Darren Sharper. These two teams are so evenly matched on paper that it's hard for me to break down why a particular team will win over the other. I'll ride with the home Saints in a down-to-the-wire comeback effort. Saints win by 4.
Chris' Playoff Record To Date: 3-5
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Feel free to share your own predictions on today's games in this thread as well.
0 recs | 470 comments
As much as I hate Braylon Edwards (and boy, do I HATE Braylon Edwards), does anyone else secretly want the Jets to win just a little bit, just for the upset set factor?
Haha, yeah me neither. :- /
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Yeah I’d like to see the Jets win, they’re one of the “other” teams I’ve had a soft spot for.
Plus you’d get to see Teflon dropping the winning score in the superbowl…
Saints for me in the NFC.
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
Part of me is interested in hearing the media and players talk about Mangini if the Jets make it to the SB. It is such an amazing story.
Add in the twist that Rob Ryan is DC on the Browns and we should see more media attention on the Browns than any other team not in the SB.
Spidey - January 24, 2010 via mobile
Part of me is interested in hearing the media and players talk about Mangini if the Jets make it to the SB. It is such an amazing story.
Add in the twist that Rob Ryan is DC on the Browns and we should see more media attention on the Browns than any other team not in the SB.
Spidey - January 24, 2010 via mobile
I went over to the Jets site the other day. Very few seem remotely interested in the idea that Mangini had anything to do with their success.
skipkirk - January 24, 2010
I like the Jets and wouldn’t mind them winning – without any help from Braylon, of course!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - January 24, 2010
Colts 31
Jets 9
Vikings 35
Saints 31
Ryan Kelsey - January 24, 2010
I’ll be rooting for the Colts. The “New York team as scrappy underdog” leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
Rec on finding the irony
Spidey - January 24, 2010 via mobile
I hate the Jets.
Cyborgs 35
Sanchezs 10
I am pulling for the Vikings because there is an outside chance that Favre is retiring. I can’t believe no one is talking about this.
Vikes 41
Saints 24
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
I would actually like to never see brett favre retire. I would like every team in the league to say “no thanks, we don’t want you.”
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
@Colts 24
Jets 17
Vikings 30
Saints 28@
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Looking good on the first game, golanbatrac!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - January 24, 2010
Off by 6.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Jets 17
Colts 14
Vikings 24
Saints 10
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Colts: 24
Jets: 17
Vikings: 28
Saints: 31
We’ll see how off I am, haha.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Not too bad on the first so far!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - January 24, 2010
Yeah, off by 6!
emily522 - January 24, 2010
If the Saints kick a field goal your prediction will be dead on.
Holy crap.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Damn.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
Yeah, go me!
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Bravo Emily!
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Best predictions of today.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Good call on game 2.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Nice!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - January 25, 2010
Only off by a lil’ on the Colts’ points.
Good job kido.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
Wow, I just noticed. Nicely done!
Simmsinns - January 25, 2010
Revis is already being moved around.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Colts 35 Jets 27
Saints 42 Vikes 14
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
The number 1 running team in the league, but no, it’s Sanchaz that’ll “take them” to the Superbowl.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Look for the Jets to run the Power over and over and over in their game. It is their go-to running play, and they might do it from the Wildcat with Brad Smith at QB in addition to the normal offense.
The pulling Guard will probably tell you it is the Power.
rufio - January 24, 2010
Who’d have thought that on the Jets’ opening drive that Edwards would catch the ball, and the kicker would screw up.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Why would the Jets try and run wide against the Colts?
What kind of douchebag kicker wears gloves indoors?
Does every single person in the stands own a jersey? Look at the crowd. I hae never seen more jerseys in a crowd in my life.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
According to FO teams have more success running outside vs the colts than inside.
Which goes against everything you’d expect- go figure.
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
That is mind blowing to me.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
that is why i’m extremely wary of those stats
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
Probably has to do with the fact that their ends are speed rushing more often than most other teams, leaving the off tackle run more vulnerable than a team that may play run contain more often.
Roger Dorn - January 28, 2010
If you wear gloves at all, wear them all the time. Consistency. Kickers need that sort of thing.
rufio - January 24, 2010
We might see a lot of commercial breaks in this game.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Colts 27
Scrubs 9
Vikes 17
Saints 14
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
HEY Just read that Holmgren is going to cut Stallworth after reinstatment.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Link?
Or was that Grossi’s speculation?
rufio - January 24, 2010
I dont know how to make it a direct link, sorry
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhKdYe.72P7jdkMHMFAnj5BDubYF?slug=tsn-brownsexpectedtocuts&prov=tsn&type=lgns
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
nm
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
You can type something, highlight it, and then click the little chain icon next to the tree icon and the bold/italics/strike icons. Copy and paste the link in there and you’re all set. Whatever you typed will be the link
As for the Yahoo article:
…means “Tony Grossi said that cutting Stallworth is ‘likely’ and that ‘it is believed’ they Browns would not bring Stallworth back”. In other words, no one from the Browns has actually said any of it. Although it would make sense to cut him, none of it is news yet. Just speculation.
rufio - January 24, 2010
OH ok, thanks for the tip. Now I can be cool like you guys.
I never read the CPD. Based on what you say, I can assume Grossi is a gossiper.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
I mean, I don’t like him, but he’s just doing what ESPN and everyone else is doing right now; he’s trying to be the first one who gets the idea out there in the press.
He can guess wrong on a bunch of obscure things with little consequence but then brag when he gets one right. And in this case, I don’t think anyone would be surprised if Stallworth actually was cut.
But like the whole Mangini situation, I don’t even think Holmgren/Heckert know what they are going to do yet.
rufio - January 24, 2010
WOW.
I’m shocked. He… uh… caught the ball.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
How much can you blame that defense though, I wouldn’t have expected him to catch it either.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Simms is a joke. His route wasn’t good, it was the QB play that got Braylon open on the TD, you can see the defender bite hard on something in the backfield. It also looked like they blitzed, and didn’t get there. That’s just good protection, not good route running.
“OMG, after 1900 years of being a WR, Braylon can run an OK sluggo! His route running is so good!”
rufio - January 24, 2010
When I saw it was #17 I was like “DROP IT. DROP IT.”
emily522 - January 24, 2010
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Ummm… did Braylon seriously just catch a TD pass?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I know, right.
It’s more that I’m surprised more than anything.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Haha, and that’s sad.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Quick refs, chack his hand and make sure there’s no glue on them.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Do I not like that.
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
Well he caught the ball more with his chest than his hands, they should check his jersey too.
rufio - January 24, 2010
2nd coming of Antonio Bryant?
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
fuck that fuckstick
rolub - January 24, 2010
Lol.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Goddamn you Edwards!
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
That guy would look great in Brown and Orange
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
I hope you’re talking about Sanchez…….
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
I was referring to the 10% of Edwards that can play.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
The other 90% isn’t worth the 10%
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
You have to know I was joking, at some point.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
My hatred for Edwards caused it to sail right over my head.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Yeah, of that 90% asshole, I particularly hate the 30% that is jealousy and the 40% trash.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
I hoped he was talking about Shonn Greene and/or Alan Faneca.
rufio - January 24, 2010
Faneca, Yes. That would put us over the top, as best O-line in the NFL.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
unbelievable.
RudeMood19 - January 24, 2010
How’d have thought. He really caught a TD pass… and it’s not even 2007.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
And it was for 80 yards.
Gotta give Sanchez credit on that throw.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Reluctantly, I agree.
The pump fake was perfectly timed.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Don’t worry fella’s, he’s just building up for an EVEN bigger drop in the Superbowl, that would have won the game.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
With all the crap Edwards has been talking, karma has to come in at some point. Right?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Well, that was his best play in 2 years
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Can’t trust the karma train.
woodsmeister - January 24, 2010
FML
sww2109 - January 24, 2010
All of the Michigan hatred is starting to boil over… /sarc
Spidey - January 24, 2010 via mobile
I get that Revis is good, but Nance nearly pooping his pants over Reggie Wayne catching a pass with Revis in coverage is laughable.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Agreed. What Revis is as a corner, is very comparable to what Wayne is as a WR.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Not to mention the best QB of our era throwing to him.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
And having the time to throw a deep comeback (or something with an option for a deep comeback), an extremely hard route to cover on an island. Revis actually covered the route later in the game.
rufio - January 24, 2010
No one gets this place a jumpin’ like Braylon.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
What’s up with this? The Jets are passing and the Colts are running?
Cats and dogs sleeping together. Mass hysteria.
woodsmeister - January 24, 2010
I will be incredibly pissed if the Jets win.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I 2nd that emotion
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Wouldn’t really care if Braylon wasn’t on the team. I only root for the Colts because of Peyton.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I think either one of these teams would lose to either one of the NFC teams, so this one doesn’t matter much to me.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
True.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
So you’re getting a minivan…
rufio - January 24, 2010
What?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
They Peyton’s Peptalks commercials?
rufio - January 24, 2010
I have no clue what you’re talking about haha.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
“It’s a football.” “Who told you?”
or
“I can do this all day football star. It’s on fire! It’s on fire!”
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I didn’t get it either.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
I used the wrong words, but here’s the real deal:
Pep talk
Also, there’s a good six pack one.
rufio - January 24, 2010
Ohhh yeah I remember those.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Don’t worry, at some point Caldwell will have to go for it on 4th down and Manning will come through.
rufio - January 24, 2010
Trickeration!
woodsmeister - January 24, 2010
Wow.
Underthrown, but still, how is the Colts D going to let him get out like that. I looked clear to me, by the way Smith was only jogging.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Doesn’t matter. Both safeties already bit hard off of the zone action by the line. It was all in motion after that.
rufio - January 24, 2010
Random, but have Eli and Peyton ever played against each other?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
yes
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Colts won, I assume?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Yeah, a few years ago. Colts SB season.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Huge play.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Wow, here comes the Jets…
Hmm, now that I think about it, it’d be nice to see Braylon in the Super Bowl and lose.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7179/photos;ylt=Au9DHqO3rlX2HLYzeP2Vfz.uLYF?slug=0224cfd4909c0db1c4724959d32f6da8-getty-95657797mw025_afc_champions#photoViewer=urn%3Anewsml%3Asports.yahoo%2Cgetty%3A20050301%3Anfl%2Cphoto%2C4bfeebad888efd6d6633686d82303317-getty-95657797mw019_afc_champions%3A1
“Oh my God, I caught the ball!”
emily522 - January 24, 2010
he he!
Who put stickum on my gloves?
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
That TD kills any momentum the Jets were hoping to carry into halftime.
rolub - January 24, 2010
REALLY nicely poised.
Colts to adjust better though.
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
that was horrid
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Why are they still trying to kick?
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Good, they missed!
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Feely just can’t judge which way the HVAC is blowing today.
woodsmeister - January 24, 2010
Let’s go Peyton!!!!
emily522 - January 24, 2010
TOUCHDOWN COLTS!!!! :D
emily522 - January 24, 2010
They are who we thought they were.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
“A little behind and high”
Ha.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Did Braylon drop a pass?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
A very easy one, yes. He had it… in his hands… then dropped it.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
This could be the drive that defines the game.
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
Stuffed!
LondonBrown - January 24, 2010
There it is…. GAME
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
And there’s the fat lady.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
All in all, decent game, I guess
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Agreed.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
I never thought I’d be happy seeing the Colts winning, especially after the last game of 07.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
That *Surgie guy screwed us. He played like crap.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Had to refresh my memory. Jim Sorgi
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Sorgi in a Snuggie?
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
I wouldn’t go that far. lol
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Imagine this Colts team with a healthy Gonzo as the 3rd WR next season with Colie as the 4th WR.
Manning may throw for 5,000 yards next season.
By the way, anyone heard Bart Scott’s name this entire game?
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
At this point, i wonder if Gonzo will see the field again. Garcon and Collie look great.
Chemo - January 24, 2010
He’s far better than Collie.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
If he doesn’t for the colts, he will for another team.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
Pierre Garcon is my man. Came from my hometown’s college. You would not believe the following.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Is Stover the only decent kicker in the playoffs?
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Matt Stover, oldest man to ever play in a Super Bowl!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - January 24, 2010
This is a 7 point game if the Jets kicker doesn’t pull a Keading.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Ah, I knew Sanchez was going to throw an INT on that.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Colts are set to win by 13, not too far off my projection of 14! Despite the final score, it was still a fun game to watch.
Chris Pokorny - January 24, 2010
Now the big question is this: Will Braylon now thank Mangini and the Browns for giving him the opportunity to lose in the AFC championship game? He’s expressed his gratitude before ;)
emily522 - January 24, 2010
"I’d like to thank Mangini in giving me the opportunity to help this team get a shitty draft number."
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
“I didn’t get enough balls thrown my way…”
Chris Pokorny - January 24, 2010
“I only dropped one pass”
rufio - January 24, 2010
"And I un-necessarily jumped for it."
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
“At least I got a TD”
Chief WaDrew - January 24, 2010
Stan…
“My son is a great player when he’s happy.”
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
" insert witty quote about them being crybabies about the fans here "
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
this isn’t too far off from something he would say.
“Well, I was able to get into the endzone, I made a few big plays, got over 100 yards, but unfortunately, we just didn’t get it done today.
rolub - January 24, 2010
“And I looked really afraid of the looming hit. I was going to get hit anyway, so I don’t know why I didn’t catch it”
rufio - January 24, 2010
Now on to the pregame on FOX
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Sigh…. I hate Fox Sports presentations.
The game is very intriguing though.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
I hear ya. I never watch Sunday morning Fox
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
On a related note: Terry Bradshaw is considering stand up comedy?
rufio - January 24, 2010
you're joking
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
He was on a Subway commerical.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I don’t know about you guys, but everytime I saw a Jet WR making a bad play (tipped pass, bad attempt for a catch) I hope it was Braylon.
Turns out I keep getting disappointed.
skipkirk - January 24, 2010
Leave it to Fox to put American Idol in their pregame. F’ing tools!!!!
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
And there’s the shameless Idol plug in full.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
God, I hate American Idol. Enough is enough.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Brett Favre’s words of wisdom:
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Go Saints.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I thought this game was supposed to kickoff at 6:30. It doesn’t seem like they’re getting ready to kick…
Chemo - January 24, 2010
6:40
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
So, 6:50 probably
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
LET’S GO VIKES
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
It’s pouring here. We lost our satellite feed.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Go up and put some foil on it.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Oh, good idea. I’ll get on that haha.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
That’s game
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Wow.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
This is already better than the other game
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
+1
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Could we see a Green Bay vs. Arizona type game? Damn, I hope so!
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
ILL!
Chemo - January 24, 2010
What was the call on the hit on Favre there? It was a running play — why can’t you run over a potential blocker?
Chemo - January 24, 2010
They claimed it was a hit on a player out of bounds. I guess unrelated to the “clean” Favre hit.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
But they called it on the guy who hit Favre (and then did nothing else in the play).
Chemo - January 24, 2010
I see, the announcers had it wrong then. Bad call either way.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
I think the rule is that after a QB hands the ball off, unless he is blocking, then he is “out” of the play. That is why they called it “out of the play”.
Until the QB tries to block someone or acts like he still has the ball, you are not allowed to hit the QB on a running play. It was a dumb play by McCray.
If you watched the Jets game earlier, Sanchez was tagged on a running play, and it looked like the official told Rex Ryan that Sanchez was acting like he still had the ball. Ryan disagreed.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
But if you are Ryan or Childress, you have to know your QB is vulnerable in that situation because they probably run PA fakes off of those plays where the QB actually does still have the ball.
I think that the QB should be hit-able until they clearly give themselves up as out of the play (i.e. thrown their arms up). Especially a QB like Favre who has probably acted like he didn’t have the ball while nonchalantly holding it out of the defense’s line of sight.
rufio - January 24, 2010
I’m not saying it is a good rule or not, but McCray had enough time to see that Favre didn’t have the football. McCray then lowered his head and drilled Favre.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
He should have been smarter than to do that, I agree with you. I think the rule sucks in addition to your original point.
rufio - January 24, 2010
I hate all of the rules about when and where you can hit a QB. at some point they’re either playing football or they’re not.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
Will Peterson ever exercise his fumbling demons?
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Looks like his fumblitis is contagious.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Glad we have Joe Thomas.
rufio - January 24, 2010
Agreed.
Simmsinns - January 25, 2010
That roughing the passer call was bogus, butit was nice seeing Fare roll around in pain two plays in a row.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Christ and another fumble, let’s go Saints!!
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
An absurd amount of fumbles now.
Chris Pokorny - January 24, 2010
How the hell do you turn the ball over that many times in the playoffs and manage to make it to overtime? One thing is for sure, the Vikes can’t hold on to the ball and the Saints can’t capitalize on mistakes, neither has a snowball’s chance at beating the Colts.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Screw the damn Saints.
That PI call was bogus.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Personally I think all flagged plays should be reviewed by the booth to keep the bogus calls under control as they happen way too frequently, that being said the Vikes had some bogus calls go their way too.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Or officials should have the awareness to call a ticky-tack foul in overtime of a championship game.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
to not* call
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Go Saints.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
Horrible ending to a great game.
The NFL’s overtime is bogus as hell.
Vikings never got the football in a game that decided who played in the Super Bowl.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Vikings (namely Favre) have only themselves to blame.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Peterson also shoulders alot of blame for this one.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
yes. Secretly I am glad it was favre’s fault.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
The Favre hate is dumb.
Plenty of players have had problems in deciding to retire. Hell, Jordan did it three times. Why doesn’t everyone crap on Jordan?
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Cause Favre is a crybaby.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
I’m pretty sure Jordan cried more than Favre.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I can’t say that I like Jordan or Favre, but I hated both long before their “unretirement” issues.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
Jordan lost some of my respect for that whole thing…favre did too but even more…
bross09 - January 24, 2010
I hate Michael Jordan.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I can’t stand Favre, either.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I liked Favre while he was a Packer. But then he started to act like a tool.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I completely agree. honestly, he used to be one of my favorite players. I used to love his passion for the game but now the passion got really annoying.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
I agree. Farve has done nothing to deserve the hate.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Eh. Nothing is a little strong.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Nothing.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Nope.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
What has he done?
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Well, I think the fact that he played for a team for 16 years, retired, then went and joined their rival (almost taking them to a Super Bowl) kind of justifies some of it.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
that is like if lebron ended up playing his whole career here, winning a championship, then near the end of his career, going to the lakers.
Favre Honestly meant about as much to green bay as Lebron does to cleveland…especially since the cavs are nowhere near as popular as the packers are in green bay.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
For the last few years he’s purposely held teams to the very last minute until his decision, even taken the time to go on terrible talk shows and stir controversy and hearsay. And when is with a team he’s rumored to spend much of training camp at home practicing on his own in Lousiana.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
This too.
I think Favre has this “I’ve been in the league for a long time, therefore I can do whatever I want” attitude. Example: arguing with Childress. Did you see Peyton doing that with Caldwell against the Jets?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Peyton specifically called him out on that one.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I did not know that. Well high-five to Peyton.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
wow…that makes me want to hug peyton and worship him…wait…I already wanted to do that.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
He also feels he has the power to “become” the coach and audible the offense to his preferences in – game.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Which adds to this:
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I have seen Peyton Manning tell his own punt team to get the hell of the field when the coach (Dungy) sent them on.
No one makes a stink about it because it is Peyton.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
How many times has that happened though? In the heat of the game a few times, maybe? As much as Favre has changed the plays to his liking?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I have no idea.
But based on how successful he was this season, I don’t see the harm in letting the man operate.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
I don’t suppose so. But how far until you let him become the head coach?
“Ass slap 88 on two. Go!”
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Haha.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
By the way, it looks like Peyton tells his coaches to screw off and changes the plays also.
Link.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
I was under the impression that Moore always just threw a couple of similar concepts from the same series/formation down to Peyton. Which play/concept actually ended up being run was completely up to Peyton.
There’s a difference between being handed the keys to the car at 16, and taking your dad’s car against his wishes while he is not home.
rufio - January 27, 2010
He’s also been to two of the last three NFC Championship games.
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
and blown both games with a bad decision at the end…
bross09 - January 24, 2010
His all around douche-iness, better than you attitude, and I’m going to come back just to try and screw over my old team antics don’t qualify for any hate?
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
I think the whole Viking thing is overly dramatic though. It literally was the best team he could get to the SB with who didn’t already have a good QB.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Exactly.
Did we expect him to come to the Browns?
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
As a QB coach, yes. Remember? haha
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Hmmm, I guess you have a point on that. Although I would be pissed if a QB of Favre’s caliber for the Browns retired and joined the Steelers (almost taking them to the SB).
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Oh. Of, course
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Which is why I can see why Packers fans would be really pissed about it.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
and they have every right to be. and from a bystander’s perspective, it can look a little douchy…granted not everyone will feel that way but it is not unjustified to.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
What about the Jets? The team that he was on last year?
Villeslgr - January 24, 2010
He was traded wasn’t he?
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
He couldn’t decide if he wanted to play and then was released.
Villeslgr - January 24, 2010
He was traded to the Jets.
Villeslgr - January 24, 2010
Right so he didn’t have the choice to find that already completed team. I’m pretty sure I heard him once say he always wanted to be a Viking in the first place after the GB fiasco.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Which is a douche thing to say.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Only because it was already completed minus a good QB.
Jeez.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I just don’t think you should say you’ve always wanted to be a Viking in the first place, when it’s your (former) team’s rival.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
By Viking in first place, I meant after GB but before Jets.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Wait, I’m confused. But maybe that’s because it’s 11:30 and I’m tired haha. I’m going to follow through and actually go to bed now, haha.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
or maybe he had ulterior motives. look at how he has manipulated the media…do you think it was an accident?? I choose to think otherwise because it is pretty far fetched to believe he would have no idea about all the media frenzy he has caused. I believe it was more attempts at media frenzy around him.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
He was traded to the Jets because he told the Packers he was going to retire, then changed his mind.
My point was that he was to traded to the Jets and then retired again after that one season. The Jets still held the rights to him but released him because he was retired. He then flirted with the Vikings but told them he wanted to stay retired.
He unretired and joined the Vikings.
The Jets just lost a game today to make the Super Bowl.
Villeslgr - January 24, 2010
Half of that is why I think Favre is a douche. The other way was the fact that he used his douche – iness to get to that good team.
So. Half and half.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
That’s pretty much the only problem I have with Favre. I never understood why people said he was finished. He had the Jets in the Playoffs last year and then they collapsed. We now know that he was injured at the end of the year. This year he takes the Vikings to the cusp of the Super Bowl.
Brett Favre was and still is a damn good QB. How he handled the Packers and Jets situations made me lose a lot of respect for him. Michael Jordan retiring didn’t change my opinion of him. His acceptance speech to the hall of fame did.
In my opinion it’s ok to struggle with the decision to retire, walk away from something that has defined you your entire life.
It’s not ok to do so without class and to the detriment to those who have supported you.
Villeslgr - January 24, 2010
He had the Jets in the Playoffs last year and then
Fixed.theyHE collapsed.bross09 - January 24, 2010
Wow, I never even thought about it like that.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
at the same time…no one had the foresight to think the jets would make it to the superbowl. I don’t think any serious analyst thought they would make it this far. many did not even consider them playoff teams and I saw many 8-8, and 9-7 projections that had them out of the playoffs.
It is easy to have perfect hindsight. it is kind of how we can criticize the browns for not seeing that Courtney brown, who was healthy in college, would become injury prone.
He left to go to a better team. period. the jets were not the better team at the time, by far.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
I agree about the hindsight thing which is why i mentioned the Jets being a playoff team before Brett’s injury. The year before he came there the Jets were in the playoffs and i wish i knew the extant of his injury last year but i think they would have been a playoff team last year as well. The Vikings lost in the 1st round to the Eagles.
I think the Jets were just as likely to end up a Super Bowl team as the Vikings.
The Vikings finished 10-6 the Jets 9-7 after losing 4 of their last 5 games.
In my opinion by losing Favre and having Sanchez the Jets took a major step back from last year even if they finished the season better. That said it’s better to have Sanchez on your team than Favre if you’re planning for the future.
Heck you would probably do better heading into the offseason with me as your QB than Favre. I’m cheaper and will probably just as likely to give you production the next season.
Villeslgr - January 25, 2010
lol…I do agree. I think I just misunderstood your point. I do not say the jets collapsed though because, as you admit, favre did get hurt…but it was his responsibility to let someone know…people blamed mangini when it was favre really. even if favre was injured though and was detrimental to the team, you really think he would have stopped??? favre caused their collapse, plain and simple IMO…
I do agree with you on many of the points though. I do not credit however, the acquisition of sanchez to have any correlation to their better record. he wasn’t that great. they just didn’t have favre down the stretch which killed them before.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I don’t credit Sanchez with anything either I was just commenting on Brett’s current love affair with retiring. Basically saying that you know Sanchez will be there with Favre who knows.
Villeslgr - January 25, 2010
because he wanted out of the franchise that built him, supported him, and never gave up on him…
bross09 - January 24, 2010
I’ve disliked him ever since he continuously beat the 49ers in the playoffs. Mostly because he was good and not playing for a team I liked. But the way he plays the media, attracts attention to himself, can’t do any wrong according to the media, whines about calls, and dramatizes things in general kinda bugs me too. “Hate” is a little strong.
rufio - January 24, 2010
By no means did the Vikings play well. Childress crapped his pants in the last minute of regulation and they fumbled the ball over the place.
But the biggest factor in the Vikings loss was losing a coin flip. How stupid is that?
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
I think the last second pick was a bigger factor than the coin flip. Or even the failed 4 and 1 stop.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Coin flip was bigger.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Yep.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I completely disagree. I think it was an obvious factor, but hardly the biggest.
Favre throws it at Rice’s feet and the Vikings win.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
How long was the FG going to be though?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Maybe 30
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
55 yards.
Vikings had the ball on the NO 38.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Yeah. I was thinking what the actual yard would’ve been.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
So the 55 yard FG isn’t guarenteed at all.
I knew Brett was going to throw an INT if they threw it.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I feel bad for Brett. Both his last throws in his last NFC Championships have ended in INTs.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I don’t. I don’t like him.
There’s my inner Packer “fan”, SB ;)
emily522 - January 24, 2010
well…they were bad throws where he thought he could fit it in and he didn’t. I don’t feel bad for a guy when he makes the mistake of trying to do too much. I just think that he should have just thought a little more and tried to do less.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
but favre could have dumped it off to the back for about a ten yard gain. sure, it wouldn’t have been a first down, but a 45 yard field goal is much easier than 55.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
agreed. he did not want to take the checkdown option. I watched it again and I saw the fullback wide open on the sideline. about a second or two before favre threw it, the fullback was at the 30 yd line. if he catches it, they are inside the 30 easily.
If we assume at the 30 (and they would be inside most likely) that sets up about a 47 yarder for ryan longwell. longwell is one of the best kickers in the league.
he hit 93% of his field goals this year with a long of 52
His season long was 52 (an incomplete pass would set up about a 52 yarder
He is a veteran
He is 91% accurate from the 40 onward.
It might not be a guarantee, but it is a good bet that inside the 50, longwell would make it.
It if favre’s fault for forcing it into coverage.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Are we really going this far to blame Favre for that loss?
Favre deserves some blame for that loss no doubt.
But name me another QB, not named Peyton Manning, that would have taken the complete ass whopping behind an offensive line, overcame 5 turnovers and riven his team down the field to put them in scoring position like that?
As for checking down the the FB, you really think that a guy who has 10 catches for the season is a sure thing? C’Mon, you are reaching to lay blame at the feet of Favre for this loss. If he had a decent HC that had a clue how to control a team or a clock, the Vikings would have won that game.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
I agree with a lot of your points. Favre up until that point was pretty darn good.
Yes, childress was an idiot and a bad coach.
I am not saying he would have been guaranteed to catch it (the fullback) but he was standing there wide open. I would call that more of a sure thing than trying to force it into coverage.
You cannot blame the loss solely on one factor. both sides were valiant but in the end, someone had to lose.
bross09 - January 26, 2010
obviously not all of the blame is on favre, but 3 of those turnovers were him, so he gets a big chunk of it.
notthatnoise - January 27, 2010
He only took that ass whooping because he held on to the ball so long and trying to make the “Brett Favre magic” happen, which has always been his problem.
And don’t act for a minute like he wasn’t playing that “ass whooping” for every 15-yard flag it was worth.
Favre knows how to change plays. He could have audibled to AD to control the clock, and he didn’t.
Players make plays.
rufio - January 27, 2010
I agree with his problem. he has that “brett favre magic” but sometimes he relies on it too much and tries to do too much.
bross09 - January 27, 2010
Childress’s head blew up in the last few minutes of regulation. He would’ve fucked it up.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Childress should be stripped of playcalling after that final minute.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Hell yes.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
A 55 yarder is not a sure thing.
Granted the INT hurt, but a coin flip (something that has NOTHING to do with football) is the reason on why a team gets the ball first in sudden death.
The Vikes already overcame 5 turnovers. Couldn’t overcome 1 coin flip.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
I hate the coin flip.
Note to the NFL: Make it like college.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
so we can have 5 overtimes and 6 hour games???
I like football, but that is just a little too much.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
I doubt it would take 6 hours
emily522 - January 24, 2010
maybe not 6, but I have seen college games go on for 5 hours before.
This sums up college football overtime better than I can.
also, the coin matters almost as much, if not more in college football as in the pros. the team that wins the toss is on D first so they have the advantage of knowing if they need to score a TD or a FG.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
It’s still a bastardization of the game if OT is played to points, not time. Even if it is 6 points, which would be much better than the current OT.
The end of normal football is determined by a clock hitting zero, not by a score.
As I see it, the “everybody gets a trophy culture” would reward not-first-place finishers, not make sure one team came out on top. College football and the NFLplayoffs need to have winners and losers by virtue of the processes of determining a national champion.
rufio - January 25, 2010
I don’t like the sudden death either but I do not see the 6 points as a bastardization. It is just like the normal somewhat sudden death except a field goal does not automatically win it. it has more coaching strategy involved and the coin toss has minimal effect on it. the coin toss does have a significant effect now (even in college). i believe the 6 point overtime is the fairest way to decide the winner and can get the closest representation of who the best team is. the 6 points though will still be decided by clock, like the pros are now. it will in fact, be projected to cause a few more tie ballgames.
I do not like the “everybody has a trophy culture”. That is why the college system does not work. Not only that, but in a way, the bowl system is that…“well you didn’t win the national championship but you still won”. the playoff system is the best way to decide the best team. it creates definitive winners and losers instead of 30 or so winners, just b/c they won a bowl game.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
No, OT games played to 6 points will not be decided by the clock. Whoever scores 6 points first wins, unlike normal football, where the team with the most points after a predetermined period of time wins.
I do not like the BCS.
rufio - January 25, 2010
The worst method is the California Tie Breaker. One 5 yard play could win you the game. But I don’t think it’s practiced any more.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
I had never even heard of that.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Ball starts on the 50. Each team has 5 plays on offense. Rotate offense/defense every play. If ball is on your side of 50 at the end, you lose.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
Yikes.
rufio - January 25, 2010
What is this, soccer?
gahnki - January 25, 2010
I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that there would not be a game clock in a 6 point system…that was a really dumb assumption I admit.
the time thing isn’t a bad Idea either.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Don’t tell me the NFL wouldn’t love having that many commercials.
I love college overtime. It does bastardize the game to some extent, but playing an additional period to time (like the regular games are always played), not score would be better than the NFL’s current overtime.
rufio - January 24, 2010
maybe…it is a decent thought…
I honestly hate college overtime though. and contrary to what many believe, a lot there is hinged on the coin toss.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
No their isn’t. Yes it may be beneficial to go second, but if it goes to a second OT, it switches.
Saying the coin toss in college is even in the same zip code of importance of pro is crazy.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
but just like a significant percentage of pro games end in one drive, a significant amount in college end in the first overtime, often with the team winning the coin toss winning.
yes, the chances are significantly more of winning, when winning the coin toss in the pros. the chances of winning are 57 percent. the chances are a little over 52 in college, but that is the chances of winning in the first overtime. that means that the team that gets the coin toss wins in the first overtime 52% of the time. the team that then goes second in the second overtime has a slightly better chance at winning (also slightly over 52%).
the point is, it id definitely not the same, but like I said it plays a significant role. I NEVER said it played as big of a role as in the pros but it is true that the team that calls it wins 52% of the time in the first overtime. the percentage of the team that starts on offense first, winning in multiple overtimes is less than 30%.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Not saying these are correct or not, but where are you getting these CFB numbers?
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
I don’t remember anymore. It was an article/page devoted to college football overtime. I could maybe search it but I am going out for the night in a few minutes…maybe tomorrow or the next day.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I do agree that the NFL overtime is a terrible system.
But, I just think that the defense know’s the rules. Stop any fretting and step up.
There’s were a few other big plays too, I just find it hard to say the coin toss was the biggest factor. Hell, Vikings might have turned it over AGAIN if they won the toss.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
A team with what… 5?… turnovers shouldn’t win.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
And probably wouldn’t have, even if they won the toss. Well, I can’t even say that. It was a crazy back and forth game, a great one at that. Could have gone either way, but the Saints deserved it more.
Can’t wait for the Superbowl.
Go Saints.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Yes, this will be a really good one!
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Defenses are on their heels in a next score wins.
To me it seems that defenses always seem to play nervous. It is expected. Overtime is a completely different animal than regulation.
Yes it is on the defense to get a stop, but I would be shocked if you ever see a DC dial up an all out blitz in OT because a broken tackle means ball game.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
bross09 - January 25, 2010
The overtime rules also don’t account for a high-scoring game in which offenses dominate, which is how the regular rules (pass interference, protecting the QB pansy-ness) dictate the game should be played.
So if overtime happens and one offense could dominate (and score TDs), but another team can play decently (and get a FG) they win.
The overtime rules don’t account for discrepancies between strong offenses.
rufio - January 25, 2010
I am not in total hatred of it. It has its cons, but it does have its pros. It is not as if the team automatically scores on the first drive. oftentimes they do not. the saints did have momentum after that INT though. it is also up to the defense to stop the other team.
Hatred of the toss is in some ways just a way to blame something that is easy to blame
here are some stats.
about 3/4 of all overtime games, both teams have at least one possession. this means that the coin flip does not matter in those games.
the winner of the coin toss wins the game about 52 percent of the time. the loser wins about 44 percent.
the numbers have shown that in the last few years though, it has been more of a trend towards first-possession wins. that being said it is up to the defense and in many ways, it is better than how college does it where many games end up lasting 5 hours because of overtime.
I saw an interesting proposal that is better than college and better than the pros. It is first to 6. you can either go for 2 field goals or the touchdown. it adds more strategy and takes away all effects of the coin toss. the probability with the coin toss is thrown completely out the window. the only downside to this is that it would raise the probability of a tie a few percentage points, but if that means better football…so be it.
that is a compromise I can get behind. I personally am not a big fan of the coin toss, but there aren’t many proposed options better.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
That was before the rule change in 1994 moving the ball back 5 yards to the 30. Since then, it’s been over 64%
johnnyphoenix - January 24, 2010
An interesting idea.
johnnyphoenix - January 24, 2010
actually…if you looke later on I did say that the discrepancy has been larger since then. I do not believe it is that much. i read it to be about 60, but this is just small potatoes.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
the biggest factor were mistakes down the stretch. favre again throwing a pick in a key situation in the NFC championship game. if he doesn’t throw that pick, it is more than likely the coin flip doesn’t even happen.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
It was a 55 yarder.
Doable, but it wasn’t a sure thing by any means.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
if he had made a good throw, even completed the pass, it would be a doable FG too…
I think the point isn’t as much the problem with the coin toss, but favre choking at key moments.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
like i said above, if he throws to the RB like the play was designed, its about a 7-10 yard gain, and a 45 yarder is considerably easier than a 55 yarder. you can’t assume they don’t gain any yards on that play if favre makes a good decision.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
I think the coin flip thing is overblown. everybody says “the vikings didn’t even get a chance.” yes they did. their defense had a chance to stop the saints. that was their chance.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
That isn’t football.
A football team is made up of an offense and a defense.
It is like baseball having extra innings that are settled after 3 outs.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
but at the same time, if favre makes the right decision, the vikings most likely win.
It is easy to blame the coin toss. yes the toss definitely has problems. It is harder, however, to blame favre for that INT.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
i don’t like the coinflip, don’t get me wrong, but like you said, a team is made up of an offense and a defense, and minnesota’s defense lost. I think the most fair thing to do would be to give each team a possession, sort of like college football, but start from a kickoff rather than the 25.
notthatnoise - January 27, 2010
The outcome of the game was absolutely positively 100% under Minnesota’s control. If their defense comes up with a stop or a turnover, they can win. They knew the rules going in, and could have won the game at any point before OT, or made the plays on defense in OT necessary to win the game. Furthermore, to shift the blame of the loss to someone/thing else (referees, coin flips, etc.) is not a winning attitude.
That said…
The problem is that just based on the way NFL overtime is structured, Minnesota’s defense AND offense have to play well for them to win—or their defense has to do something extrordinary (i.e. a pick-6).
All the Saints had to do (or any flip-winning team has to do) is march the ball down on offense and score a FG. This is without a doubt an advantage.
Minnesota needs to make more plays and/or much much bigger plays in order to win, which is not fair. A 3 and out or a stop before the other team reaches FG range is not a big play for a defense, and sure, that’s all Minnesota needed to get the ball back. But then they would have had to make plays of their own to get in to scoring range themselves. No matter what happened, they would have had to make more plays than the Saints to win.
Furthermore, the OT rules discriminate against certain types of team structures and philosophies. The Colts, for example, can build their team to be good at stopping the pass and good at holding other teams to FGs, even if they can’t outright stop the other team from scoring. They can do that because they know for every 1 FG you score, Peyton will score at least 1 TD, and that will win them the game. It is a strategy that wins in regular football games, but not in OT, because a simple FG will win the other team the game.
Without making excuses for Minnesota specifically, it is clear that the rules should be changed to give each team an equal chance of winning the game, without discriminating against football philosophies that hold true in normal games.
rufio - January 27, 2010
yes. you always have good points to make rufio. It was in minnesota’s hands but they were definitely put at a disadvantage. The rules do need to be changed, but not necessarily to the college rules.
bross09 - January 27, 2010
Nicely said, rufio.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - January 27, 2010
NFl overtime rules are terrible. I knew the minute that ref said “tails” the Saints had won.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
“Knew” is probably a little to strong. “Had a strong feeling” might be a bit more accurate. A lot of things could have happened. (i.e. 4th and inches spot was questionable)
But I do agree that NFL overtime is bad.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Um. Drew Brees “knew” also. So you lose.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I think he more of just had a strong feeling. I could be wrong though, precognition would be just one of Brees’ many talents.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
They should change to first to 6. Would make strategy matter.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
That is a cool idea.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
I say first to 6 and you have to make the 2 pt. conversion. Much like a 3rd overtime in college.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
first to 6 I like better b/c it is either 2 FGs or a TD. it adds added strategy to the coach and makes games more interesting and makes for better MMQB
bross09 - January 24, 2010
I think both teams should get a possession in overtime, instead of sudden death, sure the games will last longer, but it will make the coin flip less relevant as to who wins.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
wow…I just researched that Idea just now. it is the perfect compromise. you still toss the coin but have it first to 6. even though there is a coin flip, probability does not even statistically matter.
bross09 - January 24, 2010
Yep. Teams are forced to make tougher decisions than “heads or tails,” and it allows both sides of the ball to play, as long as one team can force a field goal.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
yes. it is brilliant. I love the Idea. I hate the ppl that say that the college system is so much better…honestly, no stats have been compiled for this, but from my observation the team that wins the toss in college wins more often too. that team chooses to be on D so they know what to go for when on offense (go for 3 or 6).
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Go Saints whoo!
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
GOODBYE BRETT!!!!!
I am torn now, though. I really like Peyton, but at the same time it’d be nice to see the team who has never won a Super Bowl (like the Browns…) win one.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Same for me. I love Peyton but I also love Drew and the fact that the Saints fans are much like us.
Colts fans are front runners.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
This girl who is from NO but has never really watched the NFL is now a huge Saints fan. It goes both ways.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
True but I think Colts more so. They’ve been better for longer.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
True.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
that is how I feel. I will probably root for the saints b/c of their fanbase, plus I want to see brees win a SB. either way, it will be an epic game.
I read somewhere that if the saints won today, the vegas odds last i heard were even if they faced the colts. the odds have never been even and the last time they were under 3, was in ’82 when you had an epic game btwn the 49ers and the bengals. that was an epic game and this one will be.
It amazes me how many superbowls were bad games and boring to watch (mostly blowouts)
bross09 - January 24, 2010
espn said today the odds are the colts by 3, but that will probably go up.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
this was odds a few days ago…it will still be a close game. the odds are usually not that close.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I hope Peyton hangs 50 on ’em.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
I hope that goes the other way around, the saints deserve a SB win as much as we do.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
I agree with this. And I respect Peyton more than any other player.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Yeah, I think I’ll end up rooting for the Saints because, like I said, they’ve never won a Super Bowl. But if they lose, I’ll just be like “Oh well, Peyton (one of my favorites) gets another ring.”
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Saints don’t deserve anything. They have been a garbage franchise that was rumored to move for years and years until Brees and Katrina turned the franchise around.
Vikings fans are closer to Browns fans than the Saints.
Plus, I never root for teams that I think backed in. The Saints backed into the Super Bowl. I have never seen a weaker PI called than that one against Leber.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
a) We moved at one point.
b) We’ve been a garbage franchise for quite some time.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
I thought this too.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
They have been rumored to move for different reasons than the Browns.
New Orleans, up until Katrina, struggled to support the Saints. After Katrina, the NFL thought about moving the Saints to San Antonio on a permanent basis.
The Saints and the Browns possible moves had nothing in common.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
So you hate the Saints because a natural disaster, which destroyed the whole city of New Orleans, almost made the city financially incapable of hold an NFL franchise.
Nice.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Ouch.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Ummm… Bernie never said that, did he?
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
He’s basing his hate on the fact that the NFL was rumored to move a franchise due to financial problems which stemmed from a natural disaster.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
So, yes. He did.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
The Saints were rumored to be moving for years before Katrina.
I didn’t say anything close to that.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Didn’t say flat-out say it, but kind of (probably unintentionally) implied it.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Is that what I said?
Not even close. What I said is that a franchise that has never gotten their collective sh*t together in over 40 years.
In the 42 previous seasons the Saints had 7 postseason games. Incompetence shouldn’t be celebrated. The Saints were a garbage franchise.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
So you’re saying that a team has repeatedly sucked in the past shouldn’t get to the Super Bowl?
Well I guess the Browns are screwed.
emily522 - January 24, 2010
So, why didn’t you say that the first time instead of just saying that they were going to be moved after a natural disaster? That was what you said
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
If that is what you took away from my comment, then I am sorry.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Apology accepted. I’m sorry I kind of put words in your mouth.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
That’s a little much honestly.
And I kind of thought Leber gave him a push with some god acting.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
This is true. How pissed would we be had that call kept the Browns from a Super Bowl?
golanbatrac - January 24, 2010
Who cares about the Saints. I want the Non SB winners’ list to stay at a high number, till we win one.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
We’re one of the few to be on the “never won one or hosted one” list.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Half of the league has never won a Super Bowl. I bet you’re thinking o the never been to list, which is only a few teams.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
Yes the “Never been to or hosted one”
Excuse me.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
The one against Poteat in the Lions game was way worse imo, the QB was ut of the pocket which meant Poteat was aloud to push the receiver out of bounds so he couldn’t legally be the first person to touch the ball.
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
I agree. that was a bad call too…but at the same time, poteat was a bad player that made dumb plays and made a PI in another game too in a similar situation.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I agree. that was a bad call too…but at the same time, poteat was a bad player that made dumb plays and made a PI in another game too in a similar situation.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
exactly.
rufio - January 25, 2010
I’m sure there were worse calls in that MNF game where the Packers and Ravens amassed 2000 penalty yards.
rufio - January 25, 2010
…200?
SpecialBrownie - January 25, 2010
2000, meant as an exaggeration. There were a ridiculous amount of penalties in that game.
rufio - January 25, 2010
It was almost 400 total.
Roger Dorn - January 28, 2010
That was an epic game. I stayed up to watch it just because of the penalties.
gahnki - January 25, 2010
You have a good point here. We share a similar level of hardcore support despite how good our team is.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Even though before Favre, Minnesota couldn’t sell out one playoff game.
So, yep. Almost the same.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Really? I wasn’t aware of this.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
Yeah, wasn’t there something about the Eagles game last year? How they weren’t selling like any tickets?
emily522 - January 24, 2010
The economy was complete garbage this time last year though.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
You have a good point.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
But every other franchise really didn’t have trouble selling out games.
Minnesota has always had a selling out problem.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
The Vikings haven’t had a home game blacked out since ’97.
Link.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
No blackout problems but selling out problems.
We haven’t had a blackout in a while either correct?
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I think the Browns had a blackout earlier this season.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
Nope.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
I think a tv station bought enough tickets to avoid the blackout.
Villeslgr - January 25, 2010
Yep. Which is still considered not a blackout.
SpecialBrownie - January 25, 2010
and in my book, I honestly do not know the last time the browns had a true blackout (because the ’95 game were extenuating circumstances that would affect it even more than a bad economy)
bross09 - January 25, 2010
and I don’t count that blackout b/c that was extenuating circumstances. the team had left, there was no point in going to the games, they were bad that year, there was no soul left in that stadium. I will give the fans a pass there.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I’ve always thought of their fanbase as relatively hardcore, perhaps I’m wrong.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
I’ve thought they’ve been kind of suckish personally.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
To be honest, I really don’t know much about them at all, other than the crazies that dress up and make it on TV. Other than that, my slight opinions are really just preconceived notions.
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
If the Browns were in the playoffs, half the city would be willing to go homeless for a ticket.
gahnki - January 24, 2010
half might even be a low estimate.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
…and it’s Philly….
rufio - January 25, 2010
Yes, last season they needed a last minute extension to sell out the game.
Bernie19Kosar - January 24, 2010
They were in the “L.A.” hunt.
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
fanbase wise, I would say we are most like the bills. browns fans=bills fans.
If I had to say the top 5 fanbases in the NFL, the vikes would not be on there. they might not be in the top 15.
My top 5 would be
1. Browns
2. Steelers (though I hate to say it)
3. Bills
4. Raiders
5. Packers
(Jets get honorable mention)
All of these teams have devoted fan bases. the bills and raiders actually cause a true home field advantage big time b/c of how rowdy the fans are. cleveland used to have that, but it has died a little. as for what the browns have gone through as a franchise I would compare them to the bills. both have been close but no cigar.
Wide Right=The fumble/RR88
The Music City Miracle=The Drive
No Goal=The Shot
I see a lot of similarities.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Raider fans don’t get to watch their team in he Bay Area. Blacked out every week.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
I guess I forgot about that…thanks for pointing that out to me. they still do have passionate fans, but I would say that the jets get into the 5th spot then…
I don’t know if it is every week though that they are blacked out…they definitely are not worse than jacksonville at blackouts.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I’m from San Jose. The only Raider games that are shown (about 75% of the time) are away games.
Raider fans used to buy the Sunday Ticket thinking they could watch the home games, but they were wrong.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
A good chunk of their fan base are people who just like the colors and logo.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
I would not say at all that they backed into this game. Criticizing the calls is not only in many cases being a sore loser, but finding an excuse. blaming the coin toss and bad calls just doesn’t work. there were bad calls against the saints too. it came down to brett favre and his unclutch performance at the end of the game.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Yes you have. It would have been a lot weaker if Leber had at least thought about looking for the ball. It was enough of a touch pass that if he never touches the TE, he has a shot at it. And you have to know that if you make contact without looking for the ball you are at risk of being flagged.
rufio - January 25, 2010
Almost 100% of the time. But Thomas did put a good amount of acting into also.
Which is why I think the call was fine.
SpecialBrownie - January 25, 2010
Didn’t he dive for an uncatchable ball? What acting?
Leber did touch him during the dive, but I thought it was a poor call.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
I think the idea was that if the PI didn’t happen, the ball was catchable. And he didn’t dive. He either tripped or felt a push and acted.
SpecialBrownie - January 25, 2010
He dove, but he was <5 yards from the potential catch point, meaning it could very well have been catchable if he wasn’t tripped up earlier in the route.
He did a good job of selling the call, but you are going to get that a large % of the time if the defender doesn’t look for the ball.
rufio - January 25, 2010
I can never lose with Rufio on my side. Hah!
SpecialBrownie - January 25, 2010
I went back and watched it.Thomas tripped over his own feet. No PI.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
He was running backwards
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
There was some contact. It wasn’t much, but it wasn’t a complete phantom call.
rufio - January 25, 2010
PHANTOM!!!
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
I agree that it was a phantom call, the contact was minimal, horrible to throw a flag like that in overtime of a playoff game.
Roger Dorn - January 28, 2010
It was a poor throw too.
Brownie's Year - January 25, 2010
I agree, but I think he actually turned around to look at the ball, but it was after he made contact.
I’m more concerned with that final catch.
Villeslgr - January 25, 2010
I completely agree…It was not like it was 20 feet over his head. without contact he definitely would have gotten his hands on it (so potential catch)
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I said it was the worst PI for two reasons:
1. From the replay that I have seen, it doesn’t even look like Leber touched Thomas. To me it looked like Thomas was adjusting to the pass and got tangled up on his own feet. Maybe there is a better replay, but this is the one that I have seen. (Fast forward to 6:29 in)
2. The PI ended the game. It gave the Saints the ball at the MN 29. The Saints kicked the FG from the 22 yard line. This was for a ticket to the Super Bowl and a PI call got a team into FG range. That shouldn’t happen.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
I really thought the contact occurred before where they cut in on the slo-mo replay. I could be wrong, but I really thought I saw some contact, as miniscule as it might have been.
I don’t understand why people get upset about calls at ends of games. If LeBron goes to the hoop and gets hammered with 1 second left in the 4th, it’s still a foul. If Leber pushes Thomas over (which clearly did NOT happen, just giving a hypothetical), it’s DPI. It didn’t “give the game” to the Saints, the rules were just being enforced, just like every other second of the game. I firmly believe Leber had control over the call; if he turns his head around to at least try to look for the ball, he doesn’t get flagged.
Obviously if it didn’t happen it shouldn’t be called, but it is just as important a call as any other in that game, which could have been different if any other call or non-call went the other way. If the refs call holding on one of the Saints’ scoring plays earlier in the game and they have to kick a FG instead of scoring a TD, the Vikes win.
rufio - January 25, 2010
this is exactly how i feel. penalties at the end of a game don’t mean any more than penalties in the first quarter. maybe it was a questionable call, but its one that is going to be made more often than not.
Since you brought up basketball, i absolutely HATE how the rules change for the last two minutes of the game.
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
Minimal contact penalty should not be called in either circumstance you are right, but especially not if a field goal wins the game. The current overtime rules are set-up such that it is such a distinct disadvantage for the team that starts on defense, that the refs do need to be more reluctant to throw a penalty flag unless absolutely certain.
Roger Dorn - January 28, 2010
I can see your thinking with that.
My contention is that the final minutes of a game should be called differently, because it is different. The NFL knows that, that is why they change the replay rules in OT and in the final two minutes. It is different than regulation. The officials reviewed three plays on the final drive alone. They don’t do that on a drive in the 3rd quarter.
PI rules are almost always ignored (Detroit) in jump balls, holding is called differently on the edge of the LOS than it is in the trenches. There are many examples.
IMO penalties should only be called at the end of a game when it is wildly obvious when a penalty has occurred. If Thomas was pushed over like you said, then for sure a penalty should be called.
I am by no means saying that the Vikings would have won if the PI wasn’t called, turnovers and stupid coaching took care of the rest, but the Saints should have earned their way down the field to earn a trip to the Super Bowl.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
this is going to sound mooncamping-esque but here we go:
they do those things differently at the end of games because of the perception that the end is somehow different, even though it isn’t. The replay system in the nfl is terrible, it should operate more like college football where the booth can review a play at any time.
I don’t think penalties should ever be ignored in any situation. Even though they are ignored on jump balls or in the trenches, i think those penalties should be called. we have rules for a reason in sports, and they should be followed. I guess what i’m saying is i’d like the human element taken out of calling penalties as much as possible. a person shouldn’t decide when a penalty matters and when it doesn’t.
notthatnoise - January 27, 2010
Yes. I advocate this for Basketball as well. It shouldn’t take 5 minutes to see if Delonte West’s foot was on the 3pt line. Have one guy or a team of guys looking at every play.
rufio - January 27, 2010
Overtime of a game is different. Only in overtime, does any sort of points immediately end the game. There is no other point in the football game where this is true.
Roger Dorn - January 28, 2010
This is exactly why the OT rules should be changed.
Add to the list of why OT rules should be changed:
Livingston thinks they should remain the same.
rufio - January 28, 2010
I agree but am also not a fan of college FB overtime for the pros.
Roger Dorn - January 29, 2010
I know that calls will be made differently at the ends of games, but will agree to disagree about whether they should/not be.
The Saints should have earned their way to the Super Bowl by having to hold Minnesota on defense, playing to time just like how normal football is played.
Leber didn’t earn a trip to the Super Bowl, he should have and could have looked for the ball. He doesn’t deserve to have it handed to his team any more than the Saints do. But the call wasn’t under the Saints’ control, it was under Leber’s.
rufio - January 27, 2010
If I hear “Who Dat” one more f’ing time……………
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
I hope you changed the channel than
North Coast Flea - January 24, 2010
As soon as Payton said it I was gone.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
i can’t believe they copied the bengals…
notthatnoise - January 25, 2010
Think the Saints had it first.
Villeslgr - January 25, 2010
didn’t the bengals have “who dey” a couple years ago? did the saints have it before then?
notthatnoise - January 27, 2010
there’s a long history and Wikipedia, and I had read another link somewhere else. It seems more complicated than it should be, and it’s an annoying chant so i kind of stopped bothering to figure it out.
From what I’ve found Bengals did it in 1981 and it became popular among Saints fans in 1983. The problem is that it had been around in NOLA for awhile, and many Saints fans claim to have been saying but argue that it just wasn’t popular among most of the fans.
Beats me.
Who Dat Wiki
Who Dey Wiki
NYtimes
Villeslgr - January 27, 2010
They are both dumb. I would be more embarassed if we came up with it first.
Roger Dorn - January 28, 2010
NFL claims trademark infringement
Villeslgr - January 30, 2010
Has anyone enjoyed playoffs this season even more just because the Steelers haven’t been in it?
/raises hand
emily522 - January 24, 2010
Yeah, I know this year’s Superbowl will not be nearly as excited due to the fact that I won’t have as much invested in the game. (Hating the Steelers.)
Simmsinns - January 24, 2010
but in some ways I will be more excited and will want to watch the game more and truly pay attention. this figures, oddswise to be an epic game.
bross09 - January 25, 2010
I’m excited to see if the Saints can stop Peyton and to see these two offenses go head to head. I joked to a buddy tonight that I wish that this year the playoffs became a round robin at the conference championships. I’d rather see that than the pro bowl.
Villeslgr - January 25, 2010
yeah…that would be interesting. all these teams though would be great and interesting matchups.
Jets vs saints…great game. 2 somewhat tortured fanbases (though not as tortured as the browns)
Jets vs. Vikes-Favre against his team from last year…a lot of hatred.
Saints vs Colts-Just the potential for a ridiculous game
Colts vs. Vikes- Worst combo but still good. manning vs. favre. “I have four words for you: Minnesotans, Hoosiers, South Beach”.
From an entertaining outside the game…jets vs vikes would be the most interesting matchup. think about minnesotans confronting jerse shore clones on south beach…that is just mind boggling…
plus with the vikes you always have the possibility that larry platt shows up…that would be an interesting halftime show…he does a duet with favre and favre gives him an ass slap…
btw, best quote ever
bross09 - January 25, 2010
Well, I’m out of here for the night. Bye everyone!
emily522 - January 24, 2010
You know the Colts have only been to 4 SBs?
You know all those SBs were in Miami?
SpecialBrownie - January 24, 2010
Horrible picture of Rice, by the way.
Brownie's Year - January 24, 2010
In case anyone is interested the opening line in Vegas is Colts -4.
Ya know, if you are into those kind of things.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
this line will get much closer to even.
Vegas Odds first of all, were predicting not as close of a game as we just saw with the saints. they were predicting a fairly close game, but it was closer than expected points wise…plus the overtime makes it truly a closer game.
the odds before today were for this possible matchup, even. yes, the line was a pick ’em.
the line I feel will get much closer to that as people come down to earth and realize the saints are better than a -4.
This is just an opening line. It could easily get much closer and it likely will. I am not really into betting but it can show at times, how close people think a game will be (if the line is really low). I feel this will be an epic superbowl that will rival the Giants Pats (but not beat it…that was a ridiculous game)
bross09 - January 25, 2010
you get that from Bill Simmons? Because it’s wrong. Last week, various online books offered prospective Super Bowl lines, and the Colts were -3 (even) vs the Saints (+120).
Then you probably shouldn’t lecture on it.
rolub - January 25, 2010
I can’t wait for the Colts to win and for the press to hammer Caldwell for not going for 19-0.
rufio - January 25, 2010
Or praise him because the two week break was their secret weapon to staying fresh.
Ohh!
SpecialBrownie - January 25, 2010
I think it’s a no-win situation for him. I would argue that you should be happy to win the SB and not wonder about the what-ifs.
That said, I would have went for perfection.
rufio - January 27, 2010
the online books opened theirs between -3 and -3.5, and moved to 5 within 30 minutes. Some books even are offering -5.5 right now, but one of them (SIA) attracts more of the low-wager, public action, and knows their customer base well.
rolub - January 25, 2010
Colts are a bargain right now, IMO.
Bernie19Kosar - January 25, 2010
The picture is too funny
BuenosAires_Dawg - January 25, 2010
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