So, let me get this straight: after all of the trade rumors had finally quieted down regarding the Cleveland Browns, they are now back in full swing?
While I still have significant doubts on these rumors, here is what the latest rumors are saying with respect to WR Braylon Edwards and QB Brady Quinn:
Braylon Edwards:Yahoo Sports and the NY Daily News are indicating that the New York Giants are expected to land the talented receiver. Several weeks ago, the OBR reported that the Giants and Browns both made offers to each other, but that negotiations stalled.
Now, those negotiations have perked up again, to the point where Edwards could be dealt prior to the draft. If that was the case, I'd see no other option for the Browns than to select WR Michael Crabtree at No. 5 overall. The problem with that, of course, is that the Browns should be focusing on the linebacker position. At some point, they'd also need to then address the No. 2 receiver position.
Granted, gaining additional draft picks for Edwards creates more opportunities to replace players. The rumors indicate that an unidentified team, presumably the Giants, would now be open to dealing their first-round draft choice to the Browns in exchange for Edwards.
Brady Quinn: Like the Edwards deal, the National Football Post reports that a team also has a first-round pick on the table for Quinn. Considering the San Francisco 49ers are not pleased with their QB situation, they are labeled as a potential suitor.
So, at the end of the day, how would you like the Browns to have three first-round draft picks? Quite frankly, I hate the idea.
We would be looking at Derek Anderson as our starting quarterback. Not that I am against him, but he needs big targets to succeed. His production faded last year without Joe Jurevicius. We could draft a quarterback, but if that were the case, why would we have swapped out Quinn only to draft another one?
Likewise, what do we get by dumping Edwards? We would need to replace him with another wide receiver early on, which would almost negate the pick with the special asterisk that the selected player could end up being a bust.
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I still don’t buy the Quinn rumors.
My feeling all along has been that Braylon does not want to be a Brown long-term, and the team might be inclined to get value out of him now
Parsing through the deluge of Tony Grossi wholly unsubstantiated BS, we get this:
Team officials have repeatedly denied to Quinn that a trade is a possibility, according to a source who has recently spoken with Quinn. But Quinn feels that there must be something to the persistent rumors and he is not happy that team officials have not leveled with him, said the source.
The first part seems to support you (and me) not buying it. The second part is pretty much the effect of he and Mary Kay constantly reporting subjective opinions.
I am willing to believe that the Browns are not hanging up when someone asks about Quinn’s availability. That said, I don’t think they are actively trying to move him
I agree with this. Which is why they can’t just bow down and tell Quinn absolutely nothing is going to happen. But no reasonable person should expect them to say that to him. Which is why Cabot and Grossi think it’s odd that they haven’t.
Which is exactly why they would want to do what they are doing: stir the pot, piss Quinn off, piss ManKok off, get the fans to hate ManKok because they aren’t nice to Cabot and Grossi.
Edwards for a 1st rounder seems like a no brainer to me. The Browns get rid of a decent receiver who doesn’t seem to want to be in Cleveland. The Giants get a replacement for Plaxico. This deal makes a lot of sense, especially because it seems increasingly likely that crabtree will be around at #5.
ESPN created a rumor that the 49ers were interested in Brady Quinn based on the NFP article and a San Francisco Chronicle article. 49ers have shot it down.
why does everyone want to get rid of him for the 29th pick that is bad value for an elite wr with his talent… we better get more than just a first and how about crabtree and edwards lineing up across from eachother theres an idea!
IF Edwards is traded I think the Browns want 2 picks. I can see this happening. Braylon will not sign a long term deal here. Sure you can franchise the guy, but he will be guy that will constantly want to move on. I like Edwards he is a helluva talent, but IF he dosen’t want to be in Cleveland then so be it.
I say move him for multiple picks. This is a wide reciever friendly draft.
Oh, IMO don’t move Quinn, I still think he has the ability, and the moxie to get it done in Cleveland. The only way I would of moved him was to get Cutler. I do not want a pick for him.
their first rounder and a WR, like Dennis Dixon, for Braylon. Then again, what does a Ravens fan know, right? Love to see Braylon move out of the division, tho.
I’m def. not a big Braylon Edwards fan. If I can catch better than a person, they should not be on the team. Obviously I cannot catch better than Braylon, but you can’t drop all the passes he has and still be a #1 reciever. So… Why not trade him for a first round pick or multiple picks? And about Brady… I like the guy, I really do. I think he will be a good quarterback. But I would also say DA is going to be a good quarterback as well. So what would happen if we could do a nice little Quinn for a 1st rounder? Take a nice OLB with #5, Crabtree or Macklin at #10 (provided the 49ers are that mystery team that put up a 1st rounder for Quinn… And just thinking, would #6-#9 be wanting to pick up Crabtree? Maybe he’s still on the board at #10 if we don’t snag him at #5), and then possibly a replacement for Lewis at #29? I wouldn’t mind it at all if the draft went like that…
So does your memory go back further than Janurary 2008? Cause I seem to remember Braylon dropping a bunch of balls while still being one of the best 5 wideouts in the league before then.
Exactly. And the oft-cited T.O. example is relevant here, too. The fact is that receivers are judged a lot more by what they catch than what they don’t.
For all the talk of an open competition for the starting QB spot, I’m not convince that Mangini is willing to go into the season with Anderson at the helm. He just can’t throw the short passes. I was hoping that was something that he would have worked on during the last off season, but I didn’t see it. In order for Anderson to thrive he needs an all-star OL to protect him long enough for himt to get a WR open deep. So if Anderson isn’t the answer, then the next logical step would seem to be giving Quinn a chance to show what he can do.
Any trade for Edwards would, it would seem, have to include a pick or picks plus a WR. Otherwise the Browns would just be thinning out an already thin position with the hope that you could draft a replacement that wouldn’t bust (to paraphrase Chris).
While trading either Quinn or Edwards seems a possibility if the offer is good enough, trading them both seems unlikely unless the Browns are willing to write off this season in order to get enough picks to build for future seasons. Frankly, that seems like a pretty big risk for a coach to take and would have to be predicated on how comfortable he is with the ability of his newly inherited scouting staff.
Im sick of being a browns fan!!! Get rid of mangini already he is trading away all of our talent. IS THIS MAN REALLY THAT HARD TO GET ALONG WITH? We need to win really bad.
I’m not real happy with Mangini, and I did love Kellen – I was devistated. I think him and Brady would have been wonderful together if they would have worked together all training camp. That said, we cannot jump down his (Mangini’s) throat too quick. Crazier things have happened and everything that is being done could be for the better. We shouldn’t like the Browns because of the names of the players on their team but because of the teams ability as a whole. I am definitely not Mangini’s biggest fan, but I am one of the Browns’ biggests fans so I am going to put the doubt to the side and wait until all the smoke clears to see what we are left with, and if it is a winning – or even better – team then I am happy. Don’t get me wrong if Quinn gets traded though, I will be the most dissappointed Browns fan in the world.
I don’t think its Mangini being difficult to get along with per se than it is a new regime cleaning house. Let be honest, no one wants us to clean house just for the sake of it. If we can get Steve Smith and a 2nd and a 5th like is rumored, I do this deal. However, the Giants want to substitute Smith with Hickson. Well, that might not work…
From what I understand, Mangini is a completely different coach than RC was. Mangini simply will not tolerate some of the things RC let slide. This and the fact that he wants to change the way the team plays will obviously result in some players wearing new colors next year. But change can be good, and hey what do we got to lose.
Braylon should bring us at least equal value (according to the draft value chart) to the 5th pick in the draft: 1700 points.
I view Smith as worth an early-to-mid 2nd rounder, say 480 points. The Giants 1st rounder is worth 640 points. For the remaining 580 points, the Giants would have to give me the entire rest of their draft (and some), or their 1st rounder next year.
Now I know the value chart overvalues the top picks, so even if I lower Braylon’s value to the 10th pick, they still have to give me their 1st, 2nd, and Smith. No way the Giants would go for that deal, and no way I would take what they had to offer. I want more than Roy Williams’ established trade value for Braylon. If he gets pissed and wants out, he can ride the pine until someone gives me what he’s worth.
Crabtree is rocketing up my draft board right now if I am the Browns.
Quinn clearly has the intangibles it takes to play in Cleveland. He isn’t pulling a Cutler and trying to get out of here, he’s just controlling what he can control and letting the rest play out. Probably the most important skillset of a Cleveland QB.
You’re right, the Giants shouldn’t do the trade for Edwards when you consider the value chart, but they have a big hole to fill and may be desperate enough to deal for him. Eli is a Manning, but he needs players to elevate him, not the other way around. This was a team that won the Super Bowl AND resides in the fishbowl that is New York City…they need to keep winning…now! While a 1, 2 and Smith probably doesn’t happen, 1,3 and Smith OR 1,2 and Hixon seems possible. I would be happy with either of those deals.
There is something to be said for a player that wants to play for the Browns. Hopefully Quinn will be given a chance to show what he can do before anyone can pry him away from Cleveland.
What are we supposed to do this season? Ride the arm of Derek Anderson to another 3-13 season? Although I think the Browns end up bigtime losers in the Edwards trade, I understand that he won’t resign with us next year so we have to get something for him. It just sucks though because we have already released Jurevicious and gotten rid of Winslow…..and Stallworth is going to prison. Who are we going to throw the ball to??? We can’t just draft Crabtree or Maclin and think its going to be ok. Plus, we need DEFENSIVE PLAYERS!! Our 1st pick was supposed to be a pass rusher!!!
Why would we even think about getting rid of Quinn for another 1st round pick?? This guy hasn’t even had a shot yet. Derek Anderson is clearly not the answer. We have given him chance after chance. Its Quinn’s turn. We need draft picks, but a QB is more important than a DB or LB or DE.
And to add to the mess, anyone know if Rogers has solved his spat with Mangini? Are they going to send him packing too?? Maybe we can just get rid of allllll the talent. Why don’t we package Rogers and Cribbs and go get another couple draft picks?? Or maybe trade them for a few mediocre Jets players?? Now that would be an idea.
Rogers has been at the voluntary workouts for weeks now, and Mangini has met with him personally several times. Of course, you wouldn’t know that if all you read was Grossi and Cabot making regular guesses that Quinn is on the block.
I hope you’re right and that its just hype. And to be honest I have no idea who Grossi & Cabot are. You guys keep talking about them.
I’m ok with getting rid of Edwards, but only if we get their 1st round pick and Steve Smith, maybe another later pick. Then we can go get Crabtree(edwards’ replacement) and get a half decent LB at 29. Maybe Clay Mathews?
QB’s are important though, last time I read my “football for dummies” book.
to be more exact, Grossi and Cabot are Cleveland area newspaper beat writers. I don’t read either of them since I am on the West Coast, but they do have decent pull with local fans.
They’re free online at cleveland.com/browns, and they’re one of the few people with actual access to the Browns powers that be. That’s what makes their rampant, unsubstantiated speculation so egregious. Rampant, unsubstantiated speculation is our job.
Heres the deal with all of this. Edwards while talented is inconsistent. everyone wants to preach how good he is but he only had 1 good year for us. he wont resign after next year anyway. why not trade him for a first round pick that hopefully will have a better work ethic for one and actually want to be here for 2. if we do trade him for the giants 29th pick then we can get someone like hakeem nicks with that pick who is a big target with great hands. look at the wild catches he had last year at north carolina. we need a second receiver as well. Brian Robiske will be available in the late 2nd round or the third round(which is reportedly the second pick we would get for edwards). That still allows us to use the #5 on a pass rusher like curry if he slips to us or orakpo. Our second round pick #35 could be used on a rb like donald brown or lesean mccoy. which ever is available.
WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT TRADE BRADY QUINN!!! Trade DA for a 3rd round pick and we an draft a small school cb like coye francies at that point. DA had his chance and blew it. I was at Quinns first start vs Denver and he looked sharp. RC would not let him throw down the field the whole game. I think Mangini will let him open it up a little more.
he wont resign after next year anyway why not trade him for a first round pick that hopefully will have a better work ethic
It is called a franchise tag people. We can keep him as long as we want, and since when has anyone said that Braylon Edwards doesn’t work hard? He may drop passes but I have never heard of him being a slacker.
Drafting for NEED at five should not be an option. The Browns should take the best player on their board at five unless he is a QB. Simple as that. And Brian Orakpo is a dud.
See, that’s the common fan response. If a player has a bad season, it’s because he must have a bad work ethic or doesn’t care enough. Fans don’t like Braylon, because of too many drops this year and his stupid rant about him being from Michigan, so they’re going to make up whatever they want about him. And they quickly forget his great year in ’07 when everybody loved him (and he was doing O-H-I-O on the sidelines!).
I’m thinking of the multiple articles I read in the 08 off season talking about Edwards’ meetings w/ Hollywood producers about acting projects. I think it’s safe to assume he wasn’t training during those. I think it’s also safe to assume Hines Ward never did that (and I hate that dirty cheapshot artist).
I don’t mind if a player wants to have a life outside of football in the offseason. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t still working out. He can’t train 24/7.
Maybe? He really isn’t that strong or especially tough, and is rated as such a good prospect because he is agile and a good pass protector for a 310lb-er. Generally, you want your RT to be the tough, big guy and your LT to be the ballerina. A lot depends on scheme, though.
I’d say Andre Smith and Oher would work the best on the right side out of the top tier tackles.
sounds fair. i ask b/c i’m really starting to convince myself that we’re going to go with a line pick at 5…i’d like to think defensive line, but raji is the only top-flight DL, and i’m starting to think he’s not a ManKok kind of guy. sounds like smith will be gone in the top 2, so that leaves monroe…and then smith and oher.
i guess you can never have too many good linemen, on either side of the ball. smith and oher feel pretty high at 5, though
It does seem a little high for anyone who can play RT and any DL besides Raji. If Andre Smith hadn’t reinforced the perception that he wasn’t a top-5 pick from a mental/maturity standpoint, he would seem like a good fit. Still seems like a lot of money to sink into a RT and forgo the chance to get a top-5 player at another position.
There are a bunch of linemen who look good who will be there in the 2nd: Eric Wood, maybe Alex Mack, Loadholt, Duke Robinson, Louis Vasquez, and several other huge/slow RG types.
actually debating my comments rather than just making childish curseword typings? I firmly believe that the Browns had a terrible season last year and since they did so well in 2007, then they should be able to get back there, but trading all your best players, disgruntled or not, is no way to stay out of the basement. Can you dispute that, or are you just going to ban anyone who thinks your team is doing the wrong thing?
please point out a trade that has put us “further into the basement”.
there’s been one trade this offseason: winslow. aside from that, all there is is idle speculation. your comment was ignorant given that we’ve only executed one trade, and that trade isn’t exactly putting us at risk of descending to the basement.
by the way…we’re already looking up at the bungles after last year, so you’re even less credible.
I’m not sure where you see the Browns trading themselves into the basement. They’ve traded Winslow, and that was easily justifiable. The general consensus seems to be that a non-blocking TE wouldn’t be as useful in the scheme that Mangini is expected to install. Besides that he’s had surgery in just about every off season since he entered the league and the odds of him getting healthier aren’t really all that good.
I don’t know of any other trades that have been made.
See now, if you had said these points in your first post, you’d be getting thoughtful responses back. You don’t walk onto somebodies lawn, take a sh¡t, and then tray and spark up a conversation about the quality of grass.
Sooooo, %$#& you, @$$hole.
(And I had thought conversations on your site in the off season last year, spiking the comments per thread from about 7 to 70 each, you @$$hole.)
See now, if you had said these points in your first post, you’d be getting thoughtful responses back. You don’t walk onto somebody’s lawn, take a sh¡t, and then try and spark up a conversation about the quality of grass.
Sooooo, %$#& you, @$$hole.
(And I had thoughtful conversations on your site in the off season last year, spiking the comments per thread from about 7 to 70 each, you @$$hole.)
You obviously were not posting here during the season.
You see, Rexx comes here to talk a bunch of XXXX to us, and then when we talk XXXX back, he plays the “I just wanted to have intelligent football conversation” card. Whenever someone brings up obvious errors in logic/fact/etc. in his “arguments” (XXXX-talking), he just proceeds to talk more XXXX.
Then, he tries to get us to come over to his site and post comments out of pure hate because he is too bored/lazy/unintelligent/uncreative to attract real traffic, or doesn’t have intelligent enough followers to do it for him. He says that we should try to foster a sense of community among fans of different teams.
You see, Rexx is the head guy over at the Ravens’ blog, like Chris is here. We ask him why he can’t just take the high road and be professional, or at least post passive aggressive, annoying posts (like this one). He says that Browns fans are over on his site and posting the same sort of garbage all the time and that gives him the right to do it here.
It gets really annoying, like the kid who always used the “but Jimmy was doing it too” excuse in elementary school because he got caught giving someone a wet willy.
Well when you come onto a Browns fan site and run your mouth talking about the dumb ass lowly bengals will laugh at us, yes you are bond to gather some not so polite comments. You apparently haven’t met many Browns fans in your life. The comment kwoog left is actually one of the nicer ones I could think off. Good thing I didn’t see it first. There is nothing to debate in your comment. What do you want us to debate, whether you were born stupid or you’ve just done too many drugs.
Something that hasn’t been talked about yet, I don’t think:
Should we be looking to stock up on picks this year? Kokinis and Mangini have had less than 6 months together, around the team, and with coordinators in place. They do not know how the product would look on the field if we played tomorrow.
Can they really already know our needs?
Would picks in next year’s draft be more valuable, giving them a full year to scout for the draft?
Would it help to see how our players play in the new schemes before making a decision about them?
i think this is a great point. additionally, i was told recently (i don’t know the answer myself) that the cap is ugly right now for the browns — they did bring in someone new to work on it — which makes moving some picks around for ’10 even more rational.
that just slows down our rebuilding. Im not saying we should pull a Phil Savage and get a ton of picks giving up more value for someone that wont even play(rucker, bell, hubbard) cuz now we dont have many picks and if we had a third we could take Jennings or Andre Brown
I dunno. I thought Kokinis’ previous job in Bal’mer was scouting out the pro players. So, he should have a pretty good idea about the abilities of the Browns players. And Mangini as a head coach with some pull in who the Jets drafted should have some idea about the college players who are available.
The only question mark I see in the process is whether Mangini trusts the Browns’ scouts to properly evaluate the talent pool.
im gonna clarify my statement about BE a few days ago when i said he had a bad work ethic. I guess that is a kind of misspeaking on my part. I dont doubt the fact that he works hard in the weight room. Hes a pro athlete so obviously he is in shape. What i mean is there are players who go out and play hard and love their city and their fans. ie Rothlisberger or Bettis or Ray Lewis. I think we would be better off without BE and Kellen. we need to draft a guys who wants to be here and BE and Winslow just didnt. And yes Bernie i understand the franchise tag. And apparently u havent seen a player who is unhappy and tears a locker room apart. I completely agree with what they are doing right now bringing good character guys in who will buy into the TEAM concept not want to be the focus all the time. And i agree with the fact that need shouldnt be the top priority in the draft that we should take the player we rank highest should be our pick. However we arent a team that was a contender with solid team. We have tons of holes and we need to fill tem before we can build depth.
I agree with this. I think the organization is exploring trading Edwards because he doesn’t want to be here long-term. I do not think they would trade him if he were willing to sign an extension at a fair price
Winslow didn’t want to be here??? He said nothing but great things about Cleveland and the fans, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. And you say you want guys who buy in to the TEAM concept, but when have Braylon and Kellen not done that? Neither of them were the kind of players to compain to the public that they weren’t the focus of the offense. They’re not like TO so I don’t know why you’re making comments about them tearing a team apart because they’ve never done that. If you want to trade Braylon then you can give solid reasons for that, but please don’t be making up things that aren’t true about him to try to make your point.
Bottom line is that the only thing that matters at this point is that Braylon is nearing the end of his contract. It may be evident internally, but not to us, that he doesn’t intend on signing an extension with the Browns. Did you read the Pluto article on this very topic the other day? I know Pluto is a writer that you respect, and he arrived at basically the same conclusion. Edwards does not want to be a Brown long-term
u forget the kellen winslow complaints that we were trying to cover up him getting that infection last yr and us suspended for that game before in the end being allowed to play. Thanks for the support dorn. apparently buckeye brad is god and knows all and im just an idiot. Bottom line BE is not consistent. he wasnt at michigan either. if we can get a first and third, or second and third and a WR for him we need to do it.
Dude, I never said you were an idiot, I just disagreed with something you wrote. Relax. If you cannot handle someone disagreeing with you then you shouldn’t be posting here. This is a place for Browns discussion and people will have different views; you need to be able to respond without getting upset.
Also, if you’re responding to someone else’s comment please use the “reply” button below the comment. That makes it much easier to follow a discussion.
speaking of the draft has anyone seen the absurd draft that yahoo has posted recently with us passing on both crabtree and curry to pick malcolm jenkins at #5? i mean i love the buckeyes and Malcolm is good but not #5 good. their mock also has tyson jackson going #3.
Yeah thats pro football talk and they are stupid. they had as taking jenkins when curry and crab were still on the board and they had tyson jackson going at 3 and moreno going at 4.
I still don’t buy the Quinn rumors.
My feeling all along has been that Braylon does not want to be a Brown long-term, and the team might be inclined to get value out of him now
Roger Dorn - April 14, 2009
Parsing through the deluge of Tony Grossi wholly unsubstantiated BS, we get this:
The first part seems to support you (and me) not buying it. The second part is pretty much the effect of he and Mary Kay constantly reporting subjective opinions.
kwoog - April 14, 2009
I am willing to believe that the Browns are not hanging up when someone asks about Quinn’s availability. That said, I don’t think they are actively trying to move him
Roger Dorn - April 14, 2009
I agree with this. Which is why they can’t just bow down and tell Quinn absolutely nothing is going to happen. But no reasonable person should expect them to say that to him. Which is why Cabot and Grossi think it’s odd that they haven’t.
kwoog - April 14, 2009
I postulated before that Grossi and MKC really just want a reason to hate Mangini, and trading Quinn would give them that
Roger Dorn - April 14, 2009
I agree, but I think a lot more than just those two will hate him if he does it.
Dawg Nuts - April 14, 2009
Which is exactly why they would want to do what they are doing: stir the pot, piss Quinn off, piss ManKok off, get the fans to hate ManKok because they aren’t nice to Cabot and Grossi.
rufio - April 14, 2009
Edwards for a 1st rounder seems like a no brainer to me. The Browns get rid of a decent receiver who doesn’t seem to want to be in Cleveland. The Giants get a replacement for Plaxico. This deal makes a lot of sense, especially because it seems increasingly likely that crabtree will be around at #5.
Cols714 - April 14, 2009
ESPN's bogus story
ESPN created a rumor that the 49ers were interested in Brady Quinn based on the NFP article and a San Francisco Chronicle article. 49ers have shot it down.
David Fucillo - April 14, 2009
Thanks for stopping by, it’s appreciated.
kwoog - April 14, 2009
Respect, Fooch.
rufio - April 14, 2009
braylon edwards
why does everyone want to get rid of him for the 29th pick that is bad value for an elite wr with his talent… we better get more than just a first and how about crabtree and edwards lineing up across from eachother theres an idea!
cgerycz - April 14, 2009
IF Edwards is traded I think the Browns want 2 picks. I can see this happening. Braylon will not sign a long term deal here. Sure you can franchise the guy, but he will be guy that will constantly want to move on. I like Edwards he is a helluva talent, but IF he dosen’t want to be in Cleveland then so be it.
I say move him for multiple picks. This is a wide reciever friendly draft.
Grockcubs - April 14, 2009
Oh, IMO don’t move Quinn, I still think he has the ability, and the moxie to get it done in Cleveland. The only way I would of moved him was to get Cutler. I do not want a pick for him.
Grockcubs - April 14, 2009
and what if both picks bust? we already know BE is good.
Dawg Nuts - April 14, 2009
I heard the Giants would give up both
their first rounder and a WR, like Dennis Dixon, for Braylon. Then again, what does a Ravens fan know, right? Love to see Braylon move out of the division, tho.
Rexx - April 16, 2009
Dennis Dixon plays for the Steelers. Domenick Hixon plays for the Giants
Roger Dorn - April 16, 2009
we're screwed
i dont what the hell we’re doing anymore…i mean edwards sucks, but what’s our strategy anymore…im sick of rebuilding!
clevelandclowns.com - April 14, 2009
You are assuming that certain moves will be made. Let’s wait until the offseason is done to determine if we are rebuilding or not
Roger Dorn - April 14, 2009
Trade them both!
I’m def. not a big Braylon Edwards fan. If I can catch better than a person, they should not be on the team. Obviously I cannot catch better than Braylon, but you can’t drop all the passes he has and still be a #1 reciever. So… Why not trade him for a first round pick or multiple picks? And about Brady… I like the guy, I really do. I think he will be a good quarterback. But I would also say DA is going to be a good quarterback as well. So what would happen if we could do a nice little Quinn for a 1st rounder? Take a nice OLB with #5, Crabtree or Macklin at #10 (provided the 49ers are that mystery team that put up a 1st rounder for Quinn… And just thinking, would #6-#9 be wanting to pick up Crabtree? Maybe he’s still on the board at #10 if we don’t snag him at #5), and then possibly a replacement for Lewis at #29? I wouldn’t mind it at all if the draft went like that…
shep615 - April 14, 2009
So does your memory go back further than Janurary 2008? Cause I seem to remember Braylon dropping a bunch of balls while still being one of the best 5 wideouts in the league before then.
rufio - April 14, 2009
Exactly. And the oft-cited T.O. example is relevant here, too. The fact is that receivers are judged a lot more by what they catch than what they don’t.
drjeo - April 15, 2009
For all the talk of an open competition for the starting QB spot, I’m not convince that Mangini is willing to go into the season with Anderson at the helm. He just can’t throw the short passes. I was hoping that was something that he would have worked on during the last off season, but I didn’t see it. In order for Anderson to thrive he needs an all-star OL to protect him long enough for himt to get a WR open deep. So if Anderson isn’t the answer, then the next logical step would seem to be giving Quinn a chance to show what he can do.
Any trade for Edwards would, it would seem, have to include a pick or picks plus a WR. Otherwise the Browns would just be thinning out an already thin position with the hope that you could draft a replacement that wouldn’t bust (to paraphrase Chris).
While trading either Quinn or Edwards seems a possibility if the offer is good enough, trading them both seems unlikely unless the Browns are willing to write off this season in order to get enough picks to build for future seasons. Frankly, that seems like a pretty big risk for a coach to take and would have to be predicated on how comfortable he is with the ability of his newly inherited scouting staff.
JustBob - April 14, 2009
what are we doing?!!!!
Im sick of being a browns fan!!! Get rid of mangini already he is trading away all of our talent. IS THIS MAN REALLY THAT HARD TO GET ALONG WITH? We need to win really bad.
delldude405 - April 14, 2009
No. Let’s give him a chance
Roger Dorn - April 15, 2009
is this a joke?
DontCallMeJoey - April 15, 2009
other than Winslow, what talent has been traded away? And, were you really all that infatuated with Winslow anyway?
drjeo - April 15, 2009
I’m not real happy with Mangini, and I did love Kellen – I was devistated. I think him and Brady would have been wonderful together if they would have worked together all training camp. That said, we cannot jump down his (Mangini’s) throat too quick. Crazier things have happened and everything that is being done could be for the better. We shouldn’t like the Browns because of the names of the players on their team but because of the teams ability as a whole. I am definitely not Mangini’s biggest fan, but I am one of the Browns’ biggests fans so I am going to put the doubt to the side and wait until all the smoke clears to see what we are left with, and if it is a winning – or even better – team then I am happy. Don’t get me wrong if Quinn gets traded though, I will be the most dissappointed Browns fan in the world.
brownsqueen10 - April 20, 2009
If quinn is traded i wont be a browns fan
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 20, 2009
I don’t think its Mangini being difficult to get along with per se than it is a new regime cleaning house. Let be honest, no one wants us to clean house just for the sake of it. If we can get Steve Smith and a 2nd and a 5th like is rumored, I do this deal. However, the Giants want to substitute Smith with Hickson. Well, that might not work…
jerseywahoo - April 14, 2009
From what I understand, Mangini is a completely different coach than RC was. Mangini simply will not tolerate some of the things RC let slide. This and the fact that he wants to change the way the team plays will obviously result in some players wearing new colors next year. But change can be good, and hey what do we got to lose.
tjk_doc - April 15, 2009
Braylon should bring us at least equal value (according to the draft value chart) to the 5th pick in the draft: 1700 points.
I view Smith as worth an early-to-mid 2nd rounder, say 480 points. The Giants 1st rounder is worth 640 points. For the remaining 580 points, the Giants would have to give me the entire rest of their draft (and some), or their 1st rounder next year.
Now I know the value chart overvalues the top picks, so even if I lower Braylon’s value to the 10th pick, they still have to give me their 1st, 2nd, and Smith. No way the Giants would go for that deal, and no way I would take what they had to offer. I want more than Roy Williams’ established trade value for Braylon. If he gets pissed and wants out, he can ride the pine until someone gives me what he’s worth.
Crabtree is rocketing up my draft board right now if I am the Browns.
Quinn clearly has the intangibles it takes to play in Cleveland. He isn’t pulling a Cutler and trying to get out of here, he’s just controlling what he can control and letting the rest play out. Probably the most important skillset of a Cleveland QB.
rufio - April 14, 2009
You’re right, the Giants shouldn’t do the trade for Edwards when you consider the value chart, but they have a big hole to fill and may be desperate enough to deal for him. Eli is a Manning, but he needs players to elevate him, not the other way around. This was a team that won the Super Bowl AND resides in the fishbowl that is New York City…they need to keep winning…now! While a 1, 2 and Smith probably doesn’t happen, 1,3 and Smith OR 1,2 and Hixon seems possible. I would be happy with either of those deals.
There is something to be said for a player that wants to play for the Browns. Hopefully Quinn will be given a chance to show what he can do before anyone can pry him away from Cleveland.
blockersave93 - April 15, 2009
Is this a joke?
What are we supposed to do this season? Ride the arm of Derek Anderson to another 3-13 season? Although I think the Browns end up bigtime losers in the Edwards trade, I understand that he won’t resign with us next year so we have to get something for him. It just sucks though because we have already released Jurevicious and gotten rid of Winslow…..and Stallworth is going to prison. Who are we going to throw the ball to??? We can’t just draft Crabtree or Maclin and think its going to be ok. Plus, we need DEFENSIVE PLAYERS!! Our 1st pick was supposed to be a pass rusher!!!
Why would we even think about getting rid of Quinn for another 1st round pick?? This guy hasn’t even had a shot yet. Derek Anderson is clearly not the answer. We have given him chance after chance. Its Quinn’s turn. We need draft picks, but a QB is more important than a DB or LB or DE.
And to add to the mess, anyone know if Rogers has solved his spat with Mangini? Are they going to send him packing too?? Maybe we can just get rid of allllll the talent. Why don’t we package Rogers and Cribbs and go get another couple draft picks?? Or maybe trade them for a few mediocre Jets players?? Now that would be an idea.
zdub1983 - April 15, 2009
Rogers has been at the voluntary workouts for weeks now, and Mangini has met with him personally several times. Of course, you wouldn’t know that if all you read was Grossi and Cabot making regular guesses that Quinn is on the block.
kwoog - April 15, 2009
Let’s hold the complaining about trading Quinn until it actually happens
Roger Dorn - April 15, 2009
-
I hope you’re right and that its just hype. And to be honest I have no idea who Grossi & Cabot are. You guys keep talking about them.
I’m ok with getting rid of Edwards, but only if we get their 1st round pick and Steve Smith, maybe another later pick. Then we can go get Crabtree(edwards’ replacement) and get a half decent LB at 29. Maybe Clay Mathews?
QB’s are important though, last time I read my “football for dummies” book.
zdub1983 - April 15, 2009
Grossi and Cabot are the reasons that this trade Quinn idea exists
Roger Dorn - April 15, 2009
to be more exact, Grossi and Cabot are Cleveland area newspaper beat writers. I don’t read either of them since I am on the West Coast, but they do have decent pull with local fans.
talonk - April 15, 2009
They’re free online at cleveland.com/browns, and they’re one of the few people with actual access to the Browns powers that be. That’s what makes their rampant, unsubstantiated speculation so egregious. Rampant, unsubstantiated speculation is our job.
kwoog - April 15, 2009
I think this should be our new banner. Get on it, Chris!
Buckeye Brad - April 15, 2009
Heres the deal with all of this. Edwards while talented is inconsistent. everyone wants to preach how good he is but he only had 1 good year for us. he wont resign after next year anyway. why not trade him for a first round pick that hopefully will have a better work ethic for one and actually want to be here for 2. if we do trade him for the giants 29th pick then we can get someone like hakeem nicks with that pick who is a big target with great hands. look at the wild catches he had last year at north carolina. we need a second receiver as well. Brian Robiske will be available in the late 2nd round or the third round(which is reportedly the second pick we would get for edwards). That still allows us to use the #5 on a pass rusher like curry if he slips to us or orakpo. Our second round pick #35 could be used on a rb like donald brown or lesean mccoy. which ever is available.
WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT TRADE BRADY QUINN!!! Trade DA for a 3rd round pick and we an draft a small school cb like coye francies at that point. DA had his chance and blew it. I was at Quinns first start vs Denver and he looked sharp. RC would not let him throw down the field the whole game. I think Mangini will let him open it up a little more.
brob05 - April 15, 2009
It is called a franchise tag people. We can keep him as long as we want, and since when has anyone said that Braylon Edwards doesn’t work hard? He may drop passes but I have never heard of him being a slacker.
Drafting for NEED at five should not be an option. The Browns should take the best player on their board at five unless he is a QB. Simple as that. And Brian Orakpo is a dud.
Bernie19Kosar - April 15, 2009
See, that’s the common fan response. If a player has a bad season, it’s because he must have a bad work ethic or doesn’t care enough. Fans don’t like Braylon, because of too many drops this year and his stupid rant about him being from Michigan, so they’re going to make up whatever they want about him. And they quickly forget his great year in ’07 when everybody loved him (and he was doing O-H-I-O on the sidelines!).
Buckeye Brad - April 15, 2009
I’m thinking of the multiple articles I read in the 08 off season talking about Edwards’ meetings w/ Hollywood producers about acting projects. I think it’s safe to assume he wasn’t training during those. I think it’s also safe to assume Hines Ward never did that (and I hate that dirty cheapshot artist).
kwoog - April 15, 2009
I don’t mind if a player wants to have a life outside of football in the offseason. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t still working out. He can’t train 24/7.
Buckeye Brad - April 15, 2009
Unless it is a QB or an OT who can’t play RT in whatever offensive scheme we will implement.
rufio - April 15, 2009
can monroe play RT, do you think?
DontCallMeJoey - April 16, 2009
Maybe? He really isn’t that strong or especially tough, and is rated as such a good prospect because he is agile and a good pass protector for a 310lb-er. Generally, you want your RT to be the tough, big guy and your LT to be the ballerina. A lot depends on scheme, though.
I’d say Andre Smith and Oher would work the best on the right side out of the top tier tackles.
rufio - April 16, 2009
sounds fair. i ask b/c i’m really starting to convince myself that we’re going to go with a line pick at 5…i’d like to think defensive line, but raji is the only top-flight DL, and i’m starting to think he’s not a ManKok kind of guy. sounds like smith will be gone in the top 2, so that leaves monroe…and then smith and oher.
i guess you can never have too many good linemen, on either side of the ball. smith and oher feel pretty high at 5, though
DontCallMeJoey - April 16, 2009
If we want a lineman we should take Loadholt or Meredith with 50.
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 16, 2009
It does seem a little high for anyone who can play RT and any DL besides Raji. If Andre Smith hadn’t reinforced the perception that he wasn’t a top-5 pick from a mental/maturity standpoint, he would seem like a good fit. Still seems like a lot of money to sink into a RT and forgo the chance to get a top-5 player at another position.
There are a bunch of linemen who look good who will be there in the 2nd: Eric Wood, maybe Alex Mack, Loadholt, Duke Robinson, Louis Vasquez, and several other huge/slow RG types.
rufio - April 17, 2009
Louis Vasquez would be available in the 4th if we wanted him
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 17, 2009
Keep trading yourselves further into the basement
of the AFC North. Now even the Bungles will laugh at you!
Rexx - April 16, 2009
&%# you, &$hole.
kwoog - April 16, 2009
Thoughtful reply
Rexx - April 16, 2009
Why don’t you make a thoughtful comment first and then we will dignify you with a thoughtful response, you troll.
Instead of making a jackass comment, you could tell us why you think the trades will be unsuccessful
Roger Dorn - April 16, 2009
Can we ban people like this that just come to insult the team.
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 16, 2009
How about
actually debating my comments rather than just making childish curseword typings? I firmly believe that the Browns had a terrible season last year and since they did so well in 2007, then they should be able to get back there, but trading all your best players, disgruntled or not, is no way to stay out of the basement. Can you dispute that, or are you just going to ban anyone who thinks your team is doing the wrong thing?
Jeez, talk about narrowmindedness!
Rexx - April 16, 2009
please point out a trade that has put us “further into the basement”.
there’s been one trade this offseason: winslow. aside from that, all there is is idle speculation. your comment was ignorant given that we’ve only executed one trade, and that trade isn’t exactly putting us at risk of descending to the basement.
by the way…we’re already looking up at the bungles after last year, so you’re even less credible.
DontCallMeJoey - April 16, 2009
I’m not sure where you see the Browns trading themselves into the basement. They’ve traded Winslow, and that was easily justifiable. The general consensus seems to be that a non-blocking TE wouldn’t be as useful in the scheme that Mangini is expected to install. Besides that he’s had surgery in just about every off season since he entered the league and the odds of him getting healthier aren’t really all that good.
I don’t know of any other trades that have been made.
JustBob - April 16, 2009
See now, if you had said these points in your first post, you’d be getting thoughtful responses back. You don’t walk onto somebodies lawn, take a sh¡t, and then tray and spark up a conversation about the quality of grass.
Sooooo, %$#& you, @$$hole.
(And I had thought conversations on your site in the off season last year, spiking the comments per thread from about 7 to 70 each, you @$$hole.)
kwoog - April 16, 2009
Try that again:
See now, if you had said these points in your first post, you’d be getting thoughtful responses back. You don’t walk onto somebody’s lawn, take a sh¡t, and then try and spark up a conversation about the quality of grass.
Sooooo, %$#& you, @$$hole.
(And I had thoughtful conversations on your site in the off season last year, spiking the comments per thread from about 7 to 70 each, you @$$hole.)
kwoog - April 16, 2009
Your getting a little caried away kwoog. its not like he commited a felony or something
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 16, 2009
A spade’s a spade, Beast.
kwoog - April 16, 2009
You obviously were not posting here during the season.
You see, Rexx comes here to talk a bunch of XXXX to us, and then when we talk XXXX back, he plays the “I just wanted to have intelligent football conversation” card. Whenever someone brings up obvious errors in logic/fact/etc. in his “arguments” (XXXX-talking), he just proceeds to talk more XXXX.
Then, he tries to get us to come over to his site and post comments out of pure hate because he is too bored/lazy/unintelligent/uncreative to attract real traffic, or doesn’t have intelligent enough followers to do it for him. He says that we should try to foster a sense of community among fans of different teams.
You see, Rexx is the head guy over at the Ravens’ blog, like Chris is here. We ask him why he can’t just take the high road and be professional, or at least post passive aggressive, annoying posts (like this one). He says that Browns fans are over on his site and posting the same sort of garbage all the time and that gives him the right to do it here.
It gets really annoying, like the kid who always used the “but Jimmy was doing it too” excuse in elementary school because he got caught giving someone a wet willy.
rufio - April 17, 2009
Oh sorry i just started posting this offseason.
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 17, 2009
Well when you come onto a Browns fan site and run your mouth talking about the dumb ass lowly bengals will laugh at us, yes you are bond to gather some not so polite comments. You apparently haven’t met many Browns fans in your life. The comment kwoog left is actually one of the nicer ones I could think off. Good thing I didn’t see it first. There is nothing to debate in your comment. What do you want us to debate, whether you were born stupid or you’ve just done too many drugs.
brownsqueen10 - April 20, 2009
Something that hasn’t been talked about yet, I don’t think:
Should we be looking to stock up on picks this year? Kokinis and Mangini have had less than 6 months together, around the team, and with coordinators in place. They do not know how the product would look on the field if we played tomorrow.
Can they really already know our needs?
Would picks in next year’s draft be more valuable, giving them a full year to scout for the draft?
Would it help to see how our players play in the new schemes before making a decision about them?
rufio - April 17, 2009
i think this is a great point. additionally, i was told recently (i don’t know the answer myself) that the cap is ugly right now for the browns — they did bring in someone new to work on it — which makes moving some picks around for ’10 even more rational.
DontCallMeJoey - April 17, 2009
that just slows down our rebuilding. Im not saying we should pull a Phil Savage and get a ton of picks giving up more value for someone that wont even play(rucker, bell, hubbard) cuz now we dont have many picks and if we had a third we could take Jennings or Andre Brown
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 17, 2009
I have a feeling they will stockpile picks every year
Roger Dorn - April 17, 2009
I dunno. I thought Kokinis’ previous job in Bal’mer was scouting out the pro players. So, he should have a pretty good idea about the abilities of the Browns players. And Mangini as a head coach with some pull in who the Jets drafted should have some idea about the college players who are available.
The only question mark I see in the process is whether Mangini trusts the Browns’ scouts to properly evaluate the talent pool.
JustBob - April 19, 2009
im gonna clarify my statement about BE a few days ago when i said he had a bad work ethic. I guess that is a kind of misspeaking on my part. I dont doubt the fact that he works hard in the weight room. Hes a pro athlete so obviously he is in shape. What i mean is there are players who go out and play hard and love their city and their fans. ie Rothlisberger or Bettis or Ray Lewis. I think we would be better off without BE and Kellen. we need to draft a guys who wants to be here and BE and Winslow just didnt. And yes Bernie i understand the franchise tag. And apparently u havent seen a player who is unhappy and tears a locker room apart. I completely agree with what they are doing right now bringing good character guys in who will buy into the TEAM concept not want to be the focus all the time. And i agree with the fact that need shouldnt be the top priority in the draft that we should take the player we rank highest should be our pick. However we arent a team that was a contender with solid team. We have tons of holes and we need to fill tem before we can build depth.
brob05 - April 18, 2009
I agree with this. I think the organization is exploring trading Edwards because he doesn’t want to be here long-term. I do not think they would trade him if he were willing to sign an extension at a fair price
Roger Dorn - April 18, 2009
Winslow didn’t want to be here??? He said nothing but great things about Cleveland and the fans, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. And you say you want guys who buy in to the TEAM concept, but when have Braylon and Kellen not done that? Neither of them were the kind of players to compain to the public that they weren’t the focus of the offense. They’re not like TO so I don’t know why you’re making comments about them tearing a team apart because they’ve never done that. If you want to trade Braylon then you can give solid reasons for that, but please don’t be making up things that aren’t true about him to try to make your point.
Buckeye Brad - April 18, 2009
Bottom line is that the only thing that matters at this point is that Braylon is nearing the end of his contract. It may be evident internally, but not to us, that he doesn’t intend on signing an extension with the Browns. Did you read the Pluto article on this very topic the other day? I know Pluto is a writer that you respect, and he arrived at basically the same conclusion. Edwards does not want to be a Brown long-term
Roger Dorn - April 18, 2009
u forget the kellen winslow complaints that we were trying to cover up him getting that infection last yr and us suspended for that game before in the end being allowed to play. Thanks for the support dorn. apparently buckeye brad is god and knows all and im just an idiot. Bottom line BE is not consistent. he wasnt at michigan either. if we can get a first and third, or second and third and a WR for him we need to do it.
brob05 - April 18, 2009
Dude, I never said you were an idiot, I just disagreed with something you wrote. Relax. If you cannot handle someone disagreeing with you then you shouldn’t be posting here. This is a place for Browns discussion and people will have different views; you need to be able to respond without getting upset.
Also, if you’re responding to someone else’s comment please use the “reply” button below the comment. That makes it much easier to follow a discussion.
Buckeye Brad - April 19, 2009
speaking of the draft has anyone seen the absurd draft that yahoo has posted recently with us passing on both crabtree and curry to pick malcolm jenkins at #5? i mean i love the buckeyes and Malcolm is good but not #5 good. their mock also has tyson jackson going #3.
brob05 - April 20, 2009
Yeah thats pro football talk and they are stupid. they had as taking jenkins when curry and crab were still on the board and they had tyson jackson going at 3 and moreno going at 4.
BradyQuinnisBeast - April 20, 2009
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