After 388 votes, our Big Board looks like this:
1. Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest--1629 total points.
2. Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB, Texas--699 total points.
3. Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech--555 total points.
4. Beanie Wells, RB, the Ohio State University--461 total points.
5. Rey Maualuga, LB, University of Southern California--444 total points.
Players recieved 5 points for a 1st overall ranking, 4 for a 2nd and so on.
Curry nabbed 280 out of 388 top rankings. Maualuga, Orakpo, and Crabtree were all tied for second at 14 top rankings apiece.
On to the 6th through 10th positions on our DBN Big Board! I will need to re-do the survey once it fills up with 100 votes, so please remember to only vote once.
Feel free to give scouting reports, tell people who you voted for, and talk about what your criteria are in the comments.
0 recs | 65 comments
This is the problem with democracy.
danvail - March 18, 2009
beanie is unconscionable there…but i actually voted Maualuga at 5. my list was: curry, raji, crabtree, orakpo, maualuga. given our QB and and OT situation none of the other guys that were votable appeared to be able to contribute on the level maualuga would. i’m not saying i want him at the 5th pick, but i think he is the 5th most likely to make a difference on that list.
DontCallMeJoey - March 18, 2009
I don’t know how Raji didn’t make it in to the top 5. I checked my math several times.
Maualuga seems to be falling in the pre-draft process, and you have to question if playing around so many other phenomenal defenders made him look good…but at times he did look really good on the field.
As for Beanie, I think I would question the pick at first, be really happy that we picked him when he racked up a couple of 100 yard games and looked good doing it, and then get really really angry when he got hurt in like week 6.
rufio - March 18, 2009
I would love Beanie, but a) the Browns have more needs and b) he’s too injury-prone to be picked that high. On pure talent alone he’s a definite top-5 pick.
Maualuga is way too overrated at 5. He’s the benefit of too much hype when he was in college on a team with a spectacular defense. But he’s just not that good.
Buckeye Brad - March 18, 2009
i agree whole-heartedly that Rey Rey is way overrated at 5. i definitely DO NOT want him with the 5th pick. however, given how much help we need on defense, and his obvious athletic ability and ability to make plays, i think he is the 5th most helpful member of this draft class for what i believe the browns to need.
DontCallMeJoey - March 18, 2009
Honest question, what’s the difference of picking him at 5 or 15? Is the money really so different as to negate him at 5 but pick him at 15? What I’m getting at is that you have to hit on 1st round picks, that’s what good organizations do. Going by that philosophy, I don’t quite understand the ability to pick a player at 15 but not 5. If you think he’s Adrian Peterson and you’re right, he should be number 1, let alone 5.
I hate the “value” argument. This is not baseball and it’s certainly not economics. Was trading up to get Polamalu good “value”? No, but it was a heck of a roster construction decision.
kwoog - March 19, 2009
There is some truth to this statement. I remember when the Patriots selected Logan Mankins everyone was like “WHAT? He is a third round pick.” Mankins is one of the best run blocking guards in the NFL now
Roger Dorn - March 19, 2009
it’s a decent point. if you’re convinced of a player’s value, why wait to take him, right?
however, i think in the case of the 5 vs. 15 example, there is massive opportunity cost associated with taking rey m. at 5. it appears to me, anyway, that there are other players whom we’d much rather have at 5 than rey, but if we were selecting at 15, those players would be gone and maualuga would look a lot better. that’s the crux of my contention that he’s not worth the 5 pick, but perhaps a slightly later one.
as far as the money, last year the chiefs had both the 5 and the 15 picks, interestingly: Glenn Dorsey (5) got 5 years and $23mm guaranteed, Branden Albert (15) got 5 years and $9.2mm guaranteed. a pretty massive difference.
DontCallMeJoey - March 20, 2009
The difference of us picking a player up at 5 vs 15 is that we would have to trade back to get the 15th pick and drafting someone at 15 implies that we get an extra pick somewhere.
If we don’t trade down, we should take the guy who is going to help us the most at #5, unless we think that guy will be there in the 2nd round. If the guy who is going to help us the most has the stock of a 10-15th pick, we should take him anyway. I thought New England reached about 10-15 spots last year to get Mayo, and that turned out pretty well for them.
rufio - March 20, 2009
I DONT want Mauluga picked for us but i am interested in his teamate cushing.
I mean hes a great pass rushing OLB which would be perfect for our team, but since he doesnt have top 5 value , then he isnt even considered. He would be a lot better than Okrapo or any other DE/OLB hybrid and would be ready to play from day 1. Does anyone agree with me
BradyQuinnisBeast - March 22, 2009
Yes but I think Cushing could also play ILB for us.
Bernie19Kosar - March 26, 2009
I wasn’t really talking about trading down, so I wasn’t including the value of the extra pick. My point was more simple: you have to hit on first round picks. A failure at 15 hurts the talent you have on your roster almost as much as a failure at 5 (maybe not economically, but talent wise, yes). Thus, how can you say someone’s an acceptable pick at 15 but not at 5?
If you draft Wells at 15 (or even 20), you’re drafting him to be a feature back and you’re probably expecting some Pro Bowls out of him. If you pick him at 15 and he doesn’t do that, it’s a terrible pick. If you pick him at 15 and he does do that, it’s a great pick. You can say the same exact things for taking him at 5.
kwoog - March 23, 2009
I agree with that theoretically, but I wasn’t talking about theory, I was talking about our actual situation in this specific draft. If we think Beanie is the best player on the board when the 5th pick rolls around and there aren’t any good trade offers, we should pull the trigger without question. The draft process should weigh that “best player available” term with things like average length of career, rareity, and impact on the game. For instance—there are only so many Shaun Rogers’ and Haynesworths in the NFL and they only come around every couple of years. Good running backs are fairly easy to find. Franchise QBs are hard to find and arguably have more impact on a game. If given the choice between Joe Montana and Jim Brown, I would have to choose Montana.
Now if we think Beanie is Jim Brown and someone who plays a position of higher value like Raji is the next Shaun Smith…the choice is clear.
If you draft a RB anywhere in the 1st and he isn’t putting up great numbers, yes he is a disappointment. Absolutely. The same could be said about just about any position, no?
The difference between drafting Beanie at #5 where we are, and making a reasonable trade down to #15 is an additional second round pick—in our specific, actual situation. The draft value chart says that if we traded down to #15 we should also get no less than Houston’s 2nd and 3rd round picks. I think we agree that the value chart is absurdly top-heavy, but even adjusting for that we should still get their 2nd rounder or at the very least their 3rd.
So the real question is which side of the equation has more value:
Beanie (picking him at 5th overall)
or
Whoever we would take at #15 (V. Davis, Maybin, Andre Smith, any of the USC LBs, Tyson Jackson, or someone else) AND that 2nd rounder.
Even better, if we traded down one or two spots to where the player we really wanted would surely be there (Beanie, in this case) then we could get additional picks and the player we wanted—like Savage did for Wimbley.
rufio - March 25, 2009
I wouldn’t touch Mauluga in the first round.
gahnki - March 19, 2009
i don’t know if you mean this to apply to the browns’ first round (aka, the 5 pick), or the entire first round. maualuga is clearly one of the top 32 players in this draft, though, if it’s the latter.
speaking of not touching in the first round, knowshon moreno couldn’t crack 4.6 at the georgia pro day???
DontCallMeJoey - March 19, 2009
I wouldn’t touch him in the entire first round. He may clearly be one of the better specimens in the draft, but I don’t like him as a player at all. He has bust written all over him.
gahnki - March 19, 2009
fair enough. you’re down on him, and that’s fine. it sounds like you do realize, though, that you’d qualify as the overwhelming minority when you say not to touch him in the first round. that doesn’t make the majority right, but he’s a consensus first rounder.
purely out of curiosity, in what round would you consider taking him?
DontCallMeJoey - March 20, 2009
I think he will go in the first round no doubt. I think that he is a hyped version of Jasper Brinkley. Both big, and can really hit hard. Rey is probably a touch faster. Both are not very good in space covering RB’s.
The difference is 3 rounds. Rey will go in the first, Brinkley around the 4th. I don’t think that a huge hit every 4-5 games is worth passing on Crabtree.
Bernie19Kosar - March 21, 2009
Maualuga may not be a combine star (a la Mike Mamula or Adam Archuleta) but he has a very important intangible that the Browns defense has lacked for some time: intimidation. I’d be happy with him . . .
Les Fleurs Du Mal - March 18, 2009
I dunno, Shaun Rogers would probably be pretty intimidating. Still no LBs or DBs who you would really be afraid of though.
rufio - March 18, 2009
It’s not about being a combine start — Maualuga just isn’t that great. He’s good, but not top-10 good. As rufio said, he had the benefit of playing on a great defense with a lot of NFL-caliber players at USC. That’s why he could make all the big hits that got him on ESPN.
Intimidation dosn’t make tackles or win football games. Intimidation is something that gives the ESPN guys something to talk about and show on their “Big Hits” or whatever, but that doesn’t mean anything on the field. Maualuga just isn’t that good — every scout and talent evaluator who’s watched USC film says so. He was overhyped in college because of the “intimidation” factor.
Buckeye Brad - March 18, 2009
you vastly overrate the value of intimidation in the NFL. there is one person in the league who trades on that currency: Ray Lewis. maualuga may have been able to scare Pac-10 rb’s, but that immediately dissipates in the league. you have to be fundamentally sound as a top-5 pick, and maualuga is not that.
DontCallMeJoey - March 18, 2009
Yup — NFL guys aren’t scared of college stars. You have to prove you can make plays in the NFL to intimidate people.
Buckeye Brad - March 18, 2009
Every rookie has to prove that he can make plays but in time I do think that Maualuga can develop into an intimating force such as Ray Lewis (or, like his Pac 10 brethren Troy Polamalu or Lofa Tatupi or Haloti Ngata). I am basing this on the fact that up until last year I lived in CA and watched him nearly every Saturday destroy people. How? INSTINCT. Maybe he is not worthy of a #5 pick but I have a hunch that he is going to be a solid pro.
Les Fleurs Du Mal - March 18, 2009
you’re exactly wrong about the HOW part of the equation, although you are exactly right that he had the ability to destroy people on saturdays.
it was anything but instinct that lead rey to so much success at USC. it was athleticism, strength, speed…he has all of these things, but his football instincts and fundamentals as a LB are weak, especially compared to the rest of his game. watch some more tape, and you’ll see him overrun plays going for a big hit, getting taken in severely by play fakes, and freestyling much more than will be tolerated in the NFL. i’m not saying he won’t be able to learn to be a great NFL LB, but he ain’t there yet, which means he’s not the 5 pick.
i still say he’s no intimidator.
DontCallMeJoey - March 18, 2009
You definitely make some valid points but I am curious about one thing: if he does have the ability to destroy people (which he often does) how is he not an intimidating force?
Les Fleurs Du Mal - March 19, 2009
i think the important thing is that he had the ability to destroy people on saturdays. de-cleaters on saturdays suddenly turn into either run-of-the-mill tackles on sundays, or often flat out misses as a result of the attempt to de-cleat. he’s going to have to break some shoulders and inflict some serious pain before he’s an NFL-quality intimidator.
DontCallMeJoey - March 19, 2009
i got you. In the end it is pure speculation as to what kind of player anybody will be coming out of college-some first rounders fulfill their potential, some 6th rounders overachieve while the vast majority fall short and are out of football in 3 years. We’ll just have to wait and see . . . but I still think Rey is going to be nails on Sundays.
Les Fleurs Du Mal - March 19, 2009
That’s true, which is why you have to look at all aspects of his game; his instincts, ability to shed blocks, pass coverage, tackling, and play smart in the scheme. You can’t just say he’s intimidating so we’ll draft him and make opposing teams scared of us. If he’s not a good NFL player than he’s not going to intimidate anybody no matter how hard he hits.
He may end up a great NFL linebacker, but he’s not worthy of being a top-10 pick right now.
Buckeye Brad - March 19, 2009
I think Merriman was intimidating people his rookie year.
kwoog - March 19, 2009
Roy Williams
He was a big hitter, but couldn’t tackle worth a s***. Look what happened to him, CUT!!!! The only way he could tackle anyone was via the “horse-collar” and now its illegal (penalty) so he REALLY won’t be able to tackle anyone now, lol.
JDfromCLE - March 19, 2009
Roy Williams would probably make a good WLB in a cover-2 scheme like the Colts’ or the Bucs. If we played that scheme I would want us to give him a strong look.
rufio - March 20, 2009
Ray Lewis doesn’t scare anyone anymore..
gahnki - March 19, 2009
By the way, this is really cool rufio. Thanks for doing this.
Buckeye Brad - March 18, 2009
+1
Also, a D-line with Raji and Rogers would be SICK
Roger Dorn - March 18, 2009
i know we’ve been over this…remind me if we think that raji can move inside once rogers moves on (hopefully not for 4-5 years)?
regardless of the answer, raji excites me more and more as i think about pairing him w/ shaun.
DontCallMeJoey - March 18, 2009
I see Raji as more of a penetrating type D-lineman, but he is large enough to play the nose. It was difficult to double team Raji at BC, because his fellow D tackle, Ron Brace, was also very effective. Whenever I saw Raji with only one blocker on him, Raji would effectively push the lineman 2-3 yards backwards and make the tackle or at least allow our solid linebackers to make the play.
BC’s defense was incredibly underrated last year because our offense was horrendous. With even a mediocre offense, I think they win the ACC easily and might have only lost 1-2 games
Roger Dorn - March 18, 2009
I absolutely believe that he could play NT. He is 6’1" 330 and apparently was beating every blocker 1 on 1 at the senior bowl, even guys I would really like to see in a Browns’ uniform like Alex Mack.
rufio - March 18, 2009
I still worry about the fact that he was suspended for all of 2007 because of his grades. I am not saying that it makes him “dumb”, but it probably shows that he is lazy/uninterested at times. That does bother me.
Bernie19Kosar - March 18, 2009
Thats a legit concern, I think.
rufio - March 19, 2009
No prob, thanks for participating. I wish I had the time to learn some of that php stuff or to look around more for different types of survey widgets so that the poll would run smoother.
Anyone know how to do stuff like this?
rufio - March 18, 2009
Does anyone know anything about Everette Brown? A lot of mock drafts that I have been looking at lately have us taking him. I would much rather see us pick either Raji or Orakpo and pick a receiver with one of our 2nd round picks.
One Yard Short - March 18, 2009
Brown produced a lot at FSU. In 06 he started 3 games, playing in 13 total with 13.5TFL and 3 sacks. 07: 9 starts, 11.5 TFL and 6.5 sacks, 08: 13 starts, 21.5 TFL and 13.5 sacks.
He is 6’1.5", 256 lbs, ESPN says he has a squattier build, doesn’t show great fluidity when he has to drop in to coverage, but has a quick first step. They also say he doesn’t shed blocks especially well and is only OK at holding up at the point of attack vs the run. They seem to think he is quite the pass rusher.
I only watched Florida State play one game this year and Brown didn’t really impress me all that much. Its not that he played poorly, he just didn’t jump off of the screen.
rufio - March 18, 2009
Shouldn’t that be a requirement for the #5 pick in the draft? We need a difference maker, not a decent guy.
I would pass on Brown.
Bernie19Kosar - March 18, 2009
I would too, or at least trade down to get him. I did only see one game, and there is clearly something that someone saw in him because everyone thinks he is a fringe first-rounder at worst. It could be Kamerion Wimbley’s subconscious effect on me?
rufio - March 19, 2009
I know it has an effect on me.
Bernie19Kosar - March 19, 2009
We NEED an OLB
For all the talk about Malaluga we need an OLB 1000 times more than ILB. Brown is a Wimbley waiting to happen, and I hope that what we see on all of the mock drafts doesn’t happen. I have seen Florida play Florida State for the last 4 years and I can’t remember this guy making one play. I am admittedly biased because of my allegiance to Florida, but we need someone who’ll get after it. As a side note I don’t remember Wimbley doing anything in 4 attempts versus the Gators either and we now know how that has turned out.
If Curry and Orakpo aren’t available, we should trade back (and get additional picks) to get one of the big upside players like Maybin, Johnson, or Matthews. Talk about corners in the first 2 rounds doesn’t make a great deal of sense. If our pass rush were better our DB’s would be better, plain and simple.
Raji doesn’t make a lot of sense as we have servicable players in the middle and a BEAST in Rogers. Most great NTs are guys thet are projects and have the frame to bulk up. If we didn’t already have Rogers maybe, but we got bigger fish to fry! I also watched Raji against Virginia Tech and Vanderbilt at the end of the year, and while he made some plays with his DT partner, the team lost and gave up some yards to questionable offenses.
blockersave93 - March 19, 2009
i have a friend who watches every second of every FSU game. he says brown is a beast…a much bigger difference maker at the collegiate level than wimbley ever was. i don’t say this b/c i think he’s good at 5 (clearly, more goes into a pick than just watching tape), but to provide some non-UF perspective on the guy (and a larger sample size).
DontCallMeJoey - March 19, 2009
I just don’t think Ev. Brown can make the transition to linebacker. I’d gladly keep him at DE in a 43, but not at linebacker.
gahnki - March 19, 2009
Virginia Tech usually has a pretty good offense year in and year out. Vanderbilt is another question and granted that I didn’t get to watch Raji play, I don’t see him playing NT, but DE we could line him up on the same side as Kam that way it takes two to block them and two to block Rogers and then one for our other DE. At least that way we might get a sack with a blitz if we actually do blitz. I also have to agree that a better pass rush will and does help with coverage.
JDfromCLE - March 19, 2009
I am hesitant to blame BC’s relatively weak defense on Raji. There are definitely questions he has to answer about his lack of production vs how he played at the senior bowl and how well he does in workouts.
An offense can do plenty of things to keep such big DTs from dominating a game: double team Raji, leave Brace (his teammate DT who is much slower) to try to chase down jitterbug-type RBs, and run outside. 3 step drops. Rolling the QB away from Raji and having a RB ready to cut block him. Screens. The read-option.
I think he has some questions to answer, sure, but we have seen stud defenders come from terrible football schools and sometimes from terrible defenses. It takes at least 11 players and a good coach/DC to make a good defense.
rufio - March 20, 2009
BC’s defense was amazing, not really sure what either of you are talking about. A lot of the points they gave up near the end of the year were actually on offensive turnovers that were returned for TDs.
The offense was so bad that it often put the defense on its heels, but the D even managed to outscore the offense quite often late in the season
Roger Dorn - March 20, 2009
what about Clay Matthews? or Laurinaitis?
Hello, people! how great would it sound to have “Clay Matthews” spoken by the Browns announcers again? that would be awesome! especially if he drove a old ford pinto like his old man did. either that or i would like to see them get “little animal” because he has superb football sense. he is the next spielman!
JDawg in Cbus - March 19, 2009
I don’t care about someones name (I did love Clay Matthews though), or where they went to school. I want playmakers pure and simple.
Bernie19Kosar - March 19, 2009
maybe in the 2nd round
Les Fleurs Du Mal - March 20, 2009
The more I think about that first pick, the more I lean away from the LBs – inside or out. If the Browns take a LB, where will he go? What I mean by that is, I recall seeing Rogers tear up the middle of the line, but it didn’t seem like he was getting much help.
So, if you put two beasts on the line instead of one maybe you could still make plays with good LBs instead of great LBs. Otherwise aren’t you just going to wind up with you LB taking on a free OL instead of getting to the RB or QB? I guess I just worry about the other DLs stepping up this year.
Am I wrong to sweat this?
JustBob - March 19, 2009
The hell with the other DLs, I am worried about Big Shaun just showing up.
Bernie19Kosar - March 19, 2009
I am really hoping that Ryan makes the DL much more aggressive this year. Romeo seemed to coach guys to put their hands on the OL and stand there. Also, our blitzes by LBs were horribly designed and predictable. A little disguising and aggressiveness could go a long way.
Also, when we looked to stop the run last year, it almost looked like guys were coached to run to 2 yards from the LOS and stand there, waiting for the RB to get to them. We almost never attacked downhill, but we seemed to always find the ball and get in position to make a play (before stopping and waiting). So, instead of our LBs going to the RB, the RB brought all his momentum to a stationary LB. When the collision occurred, our LB had no momentum and the RB dragged him 2 yards.
Whoever it is, we need someone to get to the QB somehow. Blitzes, good defensive play design, or pure talent. Anything.
rufio - March 20, 2009
Aaron Curry?
Ok, yes he is a OLB from Wake Forest. But how did Aaron Curry rise to the top of many “big boards”? Not doubting the guy, it justs seems like he came out of nowhere after the college season. If you look at some old mocks from Dec, Jan….all the big names are there at the top that we still see today. I’m looking at a mock from Nov that doesn’t even list Curry in the 1st round. Did I miss something? Please educate me.
rockybrown - March 20, 2009
First, he had a pretty good senior season: 66 solo tackles (105 total), 16 TFL, 2.5 sacks, an INT, 2 QB hurries, 3 passes defensed. He probably was just beginning to get scouts’ attention when he returned 3 turnovers for TDs in his junior year. He showed consistent improvement, starting in every game since the 2nd game of his RS freshman year, and increasing his Tackle totals every year, and winning the Butkus award his senior year. He has looked like the leader of his defense for a couple of seasons, and he was named to almost everyone’s All-American team.
Second, he lit up the combine. Curry ran a 4.56 40 on what looked like a slow track. He also put up 25 reps on the bench press a 37 inch vertical, an a 10’4" broad jump, while checking in at 6’3" and 247lbs. This validated the feelings that scouts had about him.
Third, a lot of the guys picked to be at the top of draft boards last year didn’t do so well this past season or in workouts. Beanie got hurt again. Jenkins didn’t answer questions about his speed. Neither did Lauranaitis. SenDerrick Marks, Fili Moala, and others picked to be top-5 picks didn’t live up to their hype in the past year. Sam Bradford didn’t declare for the draft.
Fourth, he plays linebacker. LB is considered one of the safest positions to take in the first round. RBs don’t last long. WRs can end up like Mike Williams. QBs are shaky as well. Safeties, tight ends, and interior offensive linemen are rarely worth it. Linebackers who are projected to go high usually work out well, especially recently: Jerrod Mayo, Patrick Willis, AJ Hawk, Jon Beason, Lawrence Timmons, Ernie Simms.
rufio - March 20, 2009
thanks for the reply. the 2.5 sacks and 2 hurries have to be a concern. maybe he wasn’t asked to blitz a lot? #1 seeks like a high pick for a coverage linebacker. are people falling in love with his physique and combine numbers at the expense of overlooking production? take a guy like mario williams, drafted #1 by houston, great size and speed #s, but he also produced on the field. he set the ACC season sack record.
rockybrown - March 22, 2009
He was not asked to get after the QB a lot. He was mostly asked to tackle people and cover people. He did both very well. When he was asked to get after the QB, he did a good job.
People are in love with a lot more than his physique and combine numbers, and they are not overlooking his production. 3 INTs for TDs in his junior season. That is production. After that, QBs didn’t throw as close to him as they used to; I guarantee they knew where he was when they dropped back. The man started a bunch of games for a D-1 school and improved his tackle numbers every year. He won the award for the best linebacker in college football BEFORE the combine. He didn’t do it by looking good in a mirror.
When you look at Curry’s profile on just about every scouting service, they will list him at OLB—which would be if he played in a 4-3 defense. We would play him at ILB in our 3-4. For us, the ILB position would probably be a lot more of what Curry has showed he is extremely good at; covering and tackling people.
The only reason he might fall to us at #5 is because he plays like a “coverage linebacker” as you say; his job is not just getting after the QB. Some people don’t think LBs like him are worth high picks. He is the consensus top player in the entire draft.
rufio - March 22, 2009
Straight from Curry’s mouth: he wasn’t asked to be an edge rusher often.
Also, Charlie Casserly thinks we would put Curry at OLB (although he also thinks we would use the pick on a CB if a better one were available…) and calls Curry a “heck of a pass rusher”. Casserly is near the end of the clip.
rufio - March 25, 2009
I’m calling an under-the-radar-type-guy right now: John Gill outta NU. Dude was an animal in the Big 10 last year but didn’t get invited to the combine, which is really dumb. Of course, he tore it up in his pro-day and had the best shuttle-run of any DT’s at the combine. I think he could be an awesome late-round pickup, but he really didn’t get much exposure this year. I think this guy will have a meaningful NFL career.
joeee - March 20, 2009
My feeling is that while first rounders are sexy names from big schools, teams are really made in the second, third and fourth rounds. I’d like to see us pick up the best defensive player available in the first and second rounds followed by a RB/WR in the fourth round.
Les Fleurs Du Mal - March 20, 2009
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