Not that anyone believed Brady Quinn would be traded, but a few things contributed to the rumor yesterday, including...
Today, both Eric Mangini and Brady Quinn addressed this rumors:
(On if the team if looking to move Quinn): "We're not looking to move Brady Quinn. He's focused on Pittsburgh ... We get calls all the time that we listen to, but Brady is a Cleveland Brown and it's not anything we're looking to do.''
(On whether he would request a trade): "No, that's not my nature to do something like that. I have a contract with the Browns and I intend to play that out."
(On if putting his house up for sale indicates he is anticipating a trade): "No, that indicates a house is for sale," Quinn said. "I appreciate the free advertising. It doesn't have anything to do with what we're here for -- prepare for Pittsburgh. I'm a guy who doesn't want to continue to drive 30 minutes to the facility every day (from Avon Lake). I'm a bachelor who lives in a house that has maybe too much upkeep. There's other reasons (to sell it). I'm trying to downsize."
For now, that settles it...until we see another morning headline in a day or so on ESPN that says "QUINN DEALT!" ;)
0 recs | 260 comments
now that i really think about it, i think keeping quinn is the right move. at most, they’d maybe get a 5th rounder for him. to me, that’s not worth it. if someone was to offer a 2nd rounder, take it. but that’s not going to happen.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
I agree.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Wait, Frye was worth a 4th rounder after that Steelers performance (far worse than anything Brady’s done), and we’re talking 5 for Quinn? I don’t know if there’s a team in the league that wouldn’t offer a 4 for him, or even a 3.
kwoog - October 14, 2009
didn’t we get back a 6 for frye?
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
Ah, yes. Nonetheless.
kwoog - October 14, 2009
i had, like, a ridiculously vivid dream that we moved quinn for a 4th. i was displeased.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2009
Quinn is selling his house right as he realizes that he won’t be hitting his contract incentives. Henche the downsizing comments.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
lol true. 30 mins. commute? Is that really that much?
johnnyphoenix - October 14, 2009
I have a friend that lives in his neighborhood and works near to where the Browns practice. It is definitely 30 minutes.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
I drive 40 min. one way to receive a KSU education. 30 minutes isn’t anything.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2009
Point being? The guy is a millionaire who can afford to live closer to where he works. Why shouldn’t he try to do that if he wants to?
Cols714 - October 14, 2009
Relax, he is saying that the commute probably isn’t the primary driver in selling a house.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Thank you Dorn.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2009
a short commute is highly underrated. My drive is 10 minutes, 20 if i want to bike in nice weather. My wife just got transferred to a different bank branch and drove to work in 4 minutes yesterday, as opposed to the previous 35-minute hassle that involved Lee Road and I-480.
If you can cut your commute time by 67%, it makes for a world of difference. I don’t blame him for wanting to move out of Avon with that being a part of the reason.
rolub - October 14, 2009
Ding Ding Ding Ding Give this man a prize he hit the nail right on the head!!! He is missing out on 11 MIL!!!!! He better be downsizing. Maybe him and T.O. and Kordell Stewart can all room together!! LOL
cfields - October 14, 2009
Now that’s three random football players.
Buckeye Brad - October 14, 2009
Kordell made a couple of pro bowls remember. He was also the QB of a couple of AFCCG.
Cols714 - October 14, 2009
I didn’t say bad, I said random.
Buckeye Brad - October 14, 2009
it’s going to be very interesting to see what happens next year with this…
emily522 - October 14, 2009
Actually…. No it won’t. It’s just gunna be boring.
skipkirk - October 14, 2009
BQ = Daboll Victim
I think Brady will eventually become a starting QB in the NFL – but I just cannot get over how bad he looked in Daboll’s offensive system. (Is saying we have an offense system an oxymoron? I vote yes) He definitely looked better under Chud and RAC – alot better. Daboll has to go for this thing to get straightened out.
realmccoy - October 14, 2009
Quinn has now had 2 years to beat out Derek Anderson and put up decent numbers. He hasn’t done either. And before I hear how he only has had a few games, he must not be looking good in practice if he can’t get past Derek Anderson. I highly doubt it is because of the OC or because first Crennel and now Mangini can’t see that Quinn is awesome. Two regimes have now decided that Quinn isn’t really the answer. Let it go.
And yes, I think he should have been allowed to start at least the first 8 games this year. But you can’t deny that the offense looks a ton better with Anderson. Now the only question is which QB the Browns are going to draft next spring.
Cols714 - October 14, 2009
“Now the only question is which QB the Browns are going to draft next spring.”
i don’t think it’s going to happen, but it’d be nice to see mccoy fall to the early 2nd so the browns could pick him up. that way, we get a good nfl prospect but for a lot less money than a #3 picked qb (aka bradford).
emily522 - October 14, 2009
I also do not think we draft a QB in the first round, maybe later. I am starting to believe the best way is to wait to get a QB until we have at least a passable team in place.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
This … please let it be this!!
talonk - October 14, 2009
A good OL, some receivers who supposedly have talent, and a TE who is at least good at blocking. This sounds like an offense that really just needs a good QB in the right scheme to put it together. A franchise QB goes a long way toward improving an offense. Matt Ryan on the Falcons is a pretty good example. That team had two highly drafted WRs, a good RB, and an OL that isn’t as good as the Browns’ when they drafted him.
Also, see the Steelers with Roethlisberger. They had needs at OT, OG, RB and CB the year they took him.
Cols714 - October 14, 2009
I still think we need another guy on the right side of the line, a better TE and another RB (although I do like Davis).
There are plenty of QBs in this years draft, but I’d rather spend the high first rounder on a DT, S, or LB, than on a QB. We may even take one in the middle rounds. But I would guess they target 2011 for the 1st round QB. Anyone have a list of the junior QBs and sohmores that might turn pro early in 2011 besides Pryor?
talonk - October 14, 2009
Mallet, Clausen, and locker are the best junior qbs this year
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
For ND, Clausen is looking really good.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2009
I am a big Ryan Mallet fan. The kid has a HUGE arm.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
Heiden and Royal are both decent blockers. Royal obviously can’t catch the ball too well, but I haven’t seen or heard anything that says he can’t block.
JustBob - October 14, 2009
i’d agree with this, but (i’ve said this so many times so sorry that i sound reduntant) this qb class is so deep. i don’t think they’re going to pass up on all of them.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
I agree. If you are drafting in the top 10 and need a QB, this is a good year to grab one. Waiting until you have all of the peripheral pieces together means you won’t be drafting high enough to grab a highly touted QB. They already have a decent OL and drafted 2 WRs in the 2nd round this year. Get a QB to put it together.
It’s time to take the plunge and get a QB with the talent to lead the team. No more late round QBs and overrated prospects, get a franchise guy.
Cols714 - October 14, 2009
i’m definitely watching that texas vs. oklahoma game. going to really look at bradford & mccoy’s play.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
Cincy v. USF for me. I realllllllllllly want Tony Pike.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2009
Let us know what you think about Bradford vs McCoy. I think there is a huge dropoff after Bradford in this year’s QB class.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
I don’t necessarily want a top draft pick spent on a QB once we have the peripheral pieces in place. Where did the Ravens grab Flacco?
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Flacco was taken in the first round… pick #18.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
Right, point being that if we have a foundation in place, and we aren’t bad enough to spend a top 10 pick on a QB, we can still find a perfectly capable QB later in the first round or even the 2nd round.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
aaron rodgers was 22. drew brees was 2nd round…
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
I totally agree that we should be working on the foundation and I think that is what coach Mangini is trying to do right now. The extra picks obtained seem to point in that direction.
I have no argument with 1st or 2nd round. Most of the successful QBs in the NFL come from those rounds. There are exceptions in later rounds but if you look at the sample size, success from the 1st and 2nd rounds is much more likely.
But this draft year is exceptional in my opinion as I don’t see a lot of depth at QB. There are scenarios in which we need a QB in 2010 and if we do I’d like to see the Browns do what they can to get Bradford.
The ideal situation is that what we have at QB works out and I do not think this is out of the question at this point.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
What more on offense do you need? If it’s a RB, those are easily found all over the draft.
Cols714 - October 14, 2009
Thankfully we don’t limit ourselves in the draft to only offense. I will list positions I think we can and should upgrade:
QB, WR, RB, TE, RG, RT, DE, OLB, CB, S
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
I would add MLB
Bernie19Kosar - October 14, 2009
I think DQ has been even better this year than last, but yes we could probably upgrade from Barton, but not quite as pressing as those other positions in my opinion.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Also, considering there is some ridiculous talent on the DL and at S high in this draft…
Unless we are really, really, really sure about Bradford, the 300lb rule says take Suh. I wouldn’t be upset with him or Berry.
rufio - October 14, 2009
After watching Suh own Mizzou, I amended my draft wish list to Berry or Suh.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Berry, Suh, or McCoy
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
Gerald mcCoy that is
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
Not Gerald McCloy the McBoing Boing boy?
talonk - October 15, 2009
We just drafted veikune
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
Until I see what Veikune can do on the field, MLB is still a need in my eyes.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
Yes, which is why I still include WR.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Isn’t that all of the possible positions except maybe the kickers? :-)
Brownsyup - October 15, 2009
Positions we are fine at:
LT, LG, C, MLB1, 1 OLB, 1 CB, FB, KR, P, K, LS, Special teams aces
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Between Poole and Elam, we have one starting safety and a quality backup. Still no number one, lights-out player at the position, though.
golanbatrac - October 15, 2009
Plus, I believe both are either free agents after this year or the next.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
NT, S2, S3, RB2/3 (I fully expect Harrison or Davis to be able to be a 2nd or 3rd string RB), WR 2/3 (same for the combo of Robo/Momass/Stuckey)
rufio - October 15, 2009
NT was a glaring omission, I would say we are adequate at those other positions for now, but free agency looms at the safety position.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Poole and Elam are both free agents in 2010, as are D’Qwell, Hadnot, Harrison and Vickers.
golanbatrac - October 15, 2009
Unfortunately each of those guys are in the category that could be considered positions that are adequately filled.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Clarify DE. In a 3-4 linemen are DT´s, the DE only designates them not NG.
mooncamping - October 15, 2009
You are right, DE in the 3-4 alignment so essentially a DT type player.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Cool. That´s one thing to plan for.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
We can’t be excellent everywhere.
CB and OLB are fine for the moment I reckon.
It really is a darn shame on RB. Who knows what Davis could’ve learned in his 1st season.
skipkirk - October 15, 2009
If Mangini sees a Darrelle Revis like player in the draft, then he should try and take him. Most Jets fans credit Mangini with targeting Revis and moving up in the draft to select him.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
I read somewhere after that draft that the Browns had Revis as the number 2 player on their board.
I will try to find it later.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
The Giants are.
TheRealSlimShady - October 15, 2009
So, nearly half the starting lineup.
That’s depressing.
I’m so depressed now that I don’t even want to try and make a joke about looking for a versatile kicker who could take the handoff from the holder (or maybe a direct snap) on FG attempts and run or pass for the first down.
On the other hand, you only listed ten positions, and I believe we have eleven picks ….
JustBob - October 15, 2009
We can also fill positions through free agency.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Every franchise should be looking at their roster and thinking about how they could improve at about half the spots.
The Colts are probably thinking about 1 or 2 OL spots (Ugoh isn’t looking good this year), a WR (just because they always do), a TE (Clark isn’t getting younger), and then a whole bunch of spots on defense. And they are one of the best teams in the league.
We have more needs, but everyone has significant needs.
rufio - October 15, 2009
Gonzalez, Wayne, Garcon, and Collie all are good for them. They dont need another WR.
TheRealSlimShady - October 15, 2009
They didn’t need a WR when they took Gonzo.
Good teams replace players before they HAVE to.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
Actually, Quinn did beat out DA. Quinn took the first snap against the Vikings. He later lost the starting job, but I don’t think you can rank any of his games below what we got through the air in Buffalo.
JustBob - October 14, 2009
I couldn’t agree more. DA has a QB rating of….39.0 (wish I could highlight that), 1 TD/5 INT, 4.6 Y/A, 128 YPG, and a completion percentage of 46.4%, ON THE SEASON. You can complain about drops, offensive line woes, and whatever else, but no matter what other factors are involved, those numbers are PATHETIC. And last week’s abomination happened when he got over 100 yards rushing. I am certainly not saying BQ is the long-term answer, but there is no way to tell this after only 2 1/2 games as the named starter. Once again, instead of allowing a young QB to learn the position and develop at this level, we create a needless QB controversy and we’re right back at square one…’Which QB to draft next year?…"
guambrownsfan - October 17, 2009
Chud’s whole offense looked better than this.
rufio - October 14, 2009
Yes
Grockcubs - October 14, 2009
Maybe they’re trying to boost offer sizes by saying he’s not available.
I bet he stays anyways though.
Brownie's Year - October 14, 2009
it’s really too bad that quinn has showed so poorly on the field so far, b/c he seems to be a perfect mangini guy. team first, wants to win, just wants to play and be successful. he could be the tom brady-type guy who is the stud (qb) that enforces the “mangini way”, like t. brady does for belichick in ne.
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
thats what i thought he’d be :-/
emily522 - October 14, 2009
Yes. Wears a Browns cap in interviews and everything. I’d like him to be the franchise QB but he seemed to be about 3 seconds behind everyone else in the first 3 games. Like I’ve said before, he did not seem that way a year ago.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
He very well may be..or he may not be…How can we tell after 2 1/2 games? Seems if I remember correctly, Eli wasn’t especially stellar in his first season as a starter, continually throwing pics off his back foot, but that is where real coaching on the mechanics, a dependable running game, and a real game plan come into play to help in the development of a young QB.
guambrownsfan - October 17, 2009
holy smokes:
• Browns QB Brady Quinn for Titans QB Vince Young
Whaaaaa? Yeah, you heard me right. This would be much more than trading one guy who likes to go shirtless when he parties for another guy who likes to go shirtless when he parties. The beauty of this deal is much more than — here it comes — skin deep.
Tennessee has a core group of talent — specifically a superb running game and very good defense — that one season ago went 13-3. Kerry Collins is on his last legs and VY is a quarterback who can only use his legs. It’s clear Jeff Fisher and the Titans staff have exactly ZERO confidence in VY.
The same is true for Quinn in Cleveland. Head coach Eric Mangini gave Quinn a legit chance to win the job and Quinn never did a whole lot to make the decision for Mangini. But there are coaches and scouts who believe Quinn truly does have the skill set and potential to be a good NFL quarterback. Put him in a solid environment, surrounded by quality coaches and good complementary talent and he could make plays. That’s Tennessee.
As for VY, a move to Cleveland would offer Mangini a nice Wildcat-type threat for the future and other options with Young on the field. Mangini already has proved he’s willing to make the bold trade and he could be just the disciplinarian-type that VY needs. And make no mistake, the Browns still would draft a quarterback in 2010. VY would be an expensive role-player next year, but his cap number is roughly the same as Quinn’s and his contract would be much less moving forward.
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
No thank you.
golanbatrac - October 14, 2009
agreed. if they were to trade quinn to TN, do it for picks. i’m sure mangini won’t have much confidence in young, either.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
Yeah, I want nothing to do with VY. He is a train wreck at this point.
Plus, he really sucks.
Bernie19Kosar - October 14, 2009
We already have Josh Cribbs for that. But in actuality, the key to running an effective Wildcat is having one amazing RB (Ronnie Brown) and another damn good RB (Ricky Williams).
It’s a common misconception that a mobile QB is the best option to take snaps from the wildcat.
(i.e. Vince Young or Michael Vick will never be as effective as Ronnie Brown or Darren McFadden)
[McFadden having Felix Jones along side him is college.]
Simmsinns - October 14, 2009
Completely agree. I always see people clamoring for wildcat because of a “dynamic” player. Has anyone noticed that the most successful wildcat includes two awesome RBs? These guys can run between the tackles for a reason, and it’s because they are actual NFL caliber RBs.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Oh how I long for the days of Mack and Byner … now that would have been a fun wildcat.
talonk - October 14, 2009
Yes
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
The statements above by Quinn and coach Mangini sound like typical diffusion. They definitely do not close the door on the possibility of a trade. I don’t think they are particularly looking to trade Quinn but I don’t think they would be listening to calls if there was no chance of a trade. It would not surprise me at all to wake up Friday to the headline that Quinn has been traded. It all has to do with what other teams are willing to offer.
I watched the interview with Quinn online and he is good in front of the camera… a real likable guy. I like the statement about the free publicity, pretty funny. As a fan, I won’t be too upset either way. If it is to be trade though, I’d like to see them get some real value.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
i think mangini has a “we’ll take all calls” philosophy…even calls on joe t., for example. that doesn’t mean that joe t. is going anywhere, but they’d be cheating themselves if they weren’t willing to at least listen to offers. MAKING calls…that’s obviously a different story.
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
/agree.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
I think they’d just hang up the phone at any mention of Joe Thomas.
Chris Pokorny - October 14, 2009
Thomas and DQ are the two players he’s mentioned as untouchable. I could see them fielding calls for any other player on the team, but not those two.
rufio - October 14, 2009
“I watched the interview with Quinn online and he is good in front of the camera… a real likable guy.”
agreed. he has class. he’s not whining and crying like cutler was because he isn’t happy.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
cause cutler has talent!!!!
cfields - October 14, 2009
Yea, give me whiny baby Cutler any day of the week.
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
LOL. But I still like it when a guy says he realizes just how lucky he is to be a QB in the NFL.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
ok, that was a bad example.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
The Browns could have had Cutler.
mooncamping - October 15, 2009
At the price of 2 first round picks, a third round pick, and a back-up QB (Quinn or Anderson).
No thanks.
Simmsinns - October 15, 2009
I don’t think the Browns were going to have to give that package up.
If you believe what is written, McDaniels really liked Quinn.
This past offseason Quinn>Orton.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
The Bears Package > Any other offer.
That’s how and why the deal got done.
So I’m fairly certain that the only offer we could have made to out do the Bears would have been the same picks +Quinn. I don’t think Cutler is worth that much.
Simmsinns - October 15, 2009
I don’t think the Browns went after Cutler as hard as some of us here would have liked.
And yes, I would have given Quinn and the 5th pick last year for Cutler. Easy.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
Quinn + 5th overall + 2010 first rounder + 2009 third rounder
for Culter? Absolutely not.
Just Quinn + 5th overall? Yes, but the Bears’ offer is better.
Simmsinns - October 15, 2009
You realize that we could be using 2010’s first rounder on a complete unknown QB in April? Not to mention about a 80 million dollar deal.
Or, a 26 YO Pro Bowler with a completely reasonable contract (for now). I am a huge Alex Mack fan, but the QB position has been an issue for going on 10 years. Fixing that issue, IMO, was easily worth the picks. I’m not going to even blink about that deal. After all, most people on this board would trade Quinn for a third rounder right now.
He has made Chicago (better team than us granted) into a title contender. I think Cutler on this team wins 6-8 games. Not the playoffs, but in the right direction. Plus, I think if Cutler was here, so would Edwards.
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
I would have been okay with giving up a lot for Cutler, but can understand why they didn’t pull the trigger on it seeing that they probably didn’t think we had the supporting cast yet to give up a lot of draft picks.
Roger Dorn - October 16, 2009
Actually, I think what was required was two number one draft picks, plus whatever extra players he was worth.
Why the Bears got him for less we can only speculate on. As far as I remember the Broncos fans insisted they wanted a servicable QB in the deal, immediately.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
draft QB
Colt McCoy all the way baby!!!!!!!
cfields - October 14, 2009
meh.
golanbatrac - October 14, 2009
Meh.
SpecialBrownie - October 14, 2009
I’m never too keen on QBs from Texas. The last QB to come out of Texas was Vince Young and you just have to go up a few posts to see what folks think of him. I don’t think you can say he has been successful in the NFL. Previous to Young you have to go all the way back to 2003 and Chris Simms. He didn’t exactly light it up either.
Seems like you might be a Texas fan or at least have seen McCoy more than I. Is Texas doing anything different this year on their offense that would lead one to believe that they could produce a QB that would be successful in the NFL?
Mack Brown has been coaching there since 1973.
I’m not being facetious… just asking.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
Oh and Brown has only been head coach in Texas since 87… don’t want to mislead.
Brownsyup - October 14, 2009
actually, it’s ‘98. he was at unc from ’88-’97 prior to texas.
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
Nice catch… sorry about that but the point is still made. They’ve had the same coache for 10+ years. I think QB success in the NFL has a lot to do with the system that is in place at the college and I don’t believe their system has changed nice those other QBs were selected.
Brownsyup - October 15, 2009
No I am a die hard Buckeye!!! But Watching McCoy he has a good arm nice accuracy and a very quick release!! If you watch Bradford his release is pretty slow I think I think he will end up being a bust in the league but that is just my opinion
cfields - October 14, 2009
McCoy does NOT have a good arm. I hope you are being sarcastic
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
from what i’ve seen i think he does. he has great accuracy, too. can’t argue with almost a 78% completion rate last year or w/e it was.
emily522 - October 16, 2009
His accuracy numbers are ridiculous.
I don’t think he has a real powerful arm, though. I don’t think it will keep him out of the NFL, but it isn’t one of his assets.
rufio - October 19, 2009
you got points on young and simms, but can’t base mccoy’s potential on that.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
Right. No colleges produce more than 1 or 2 good NFL QBs every decade or so.
Ryan Kelsey - October 14, 2009
USC?
rufio - October 14, 2009
eh… Palmer is the only one with any sustained success at all since… Rodney Peete?
Leinert and Sanchez had all the hype, but Leinert can’t find the field and Sanchez is far from a sure thing. I guess Cassell counts for something too.
By far the closest thing.
Ryan Kelsey - October 14, 2009
Sanchez is backing up the hype, Leinart is backing up a damn fine QB, and Cassel was pretty solid in 2007. I would say that’s the best any school had to offer, wouldn’t you? I can’t think of a better example.
rufio - October 15, 2009
oops, just read your last line. My bad.
rufio - October 15, 2009
Miami!!!!????
cfields - October 15, 2009
????
Kosar and Kelly in the 80s/90s.
Like I said 1 or 2 in a decade.
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2009
Testeverde? No?
talonk - October 15, 2009
Ah yes. They did have 3 in a row there. Still that is the incredibly rare exception.
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2009
Michigan..
JMgoBlue - October 16, 2009
ah, no.
In the 2000s, you got Brady and Greise
In the 90s you got Grbac and Todd Collins?
Ryan Kelsey - October 16, 2009
He may be counting Henne too.
Harbaugh in the 80s
90s: Grbac, Collins, Griese, Driesbach, Brady
00s: Henson, Navarre, Henne, Threet and now Forcier
talonk - October 16, 2009
I think they’re talking about NFL QB’s, not college QB’s.
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
I know, but I was showing which Michigan college QBs there were to choose from. Both Brady and Griese were from 90s, not 00s
talonk - October 16, 2009
OK, that makes sense. I was thinking you were quite premature to include Forcier in that group.
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
Well, the point of this is NFL contributions. Brady’s and most of Griese’s are in the 00s and Grbac in the 90s. Collins, Driesbach, Henson, Navarre, and Threet all didn’t make any significant contributions.
I don’t think Michigan has produced more than 1 or 2 NFL QBs per decade- my original post.
Henne doesn’t count yet.
Ryan Kelsey - October 16, 2009
No problem, I thought you meant college years that became pros. But if you are going to use the 90s, add in Harbaugh.
talonk - October 16, 2009
Agreed. Different player, different evaluation. Texas’ system is QB-friendly and will make a QB look good, but that doesn’t mean that QB couldn’t make a good pro.
rufio - October 14, 2009
Noting that the coach hasn’t changed there in some time, the whole point is that the system in place in Texas is not conducive to producing QBs that are successful in the NFL. Looking at McCoy’s highlights I saw more running plays than I like to see. You are not going to get away with a lot of those plays in the NFL.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of running QBs as I think you have to structure the entire offense in a different way to take advantage of their skills. Because of the exposure when running, they are more prone to injury (like a running back) and your backup is usually so different that now you have a big mis-match with the rest of the offense.
Anyway, we have a good opportunity to see Bradford vs McCoy this weekend. I’ll definitely be taking a peek at that game though I’m thinking it is more unlikely than likely that the Browns take a QB in 2010.
Brownsyup - October 15, 2009
McCoy is a pretty ridiculously accurate passer who can run, not a running QB.
Texas’ system isn’t less conducive to producing a pro than a lot of other college’s systems, it just makes a QB look good. His stats should be taken with a grain of salt, and his film has to be thoroughly studied with at least some understanding of his offense to know what kinds of reads he has to make.
I’m not saying he will be good, I’m just saying you have to look at what the player does within the system, not just at the system and not just at the player.
rufio - October 15, 2009
“McCoy is a pretty ridiculously accurate passer who can run, not a running QB.”
exactly.
emily522 - October 16, 2009
sounds good
just make sure he brings his girlfriend
TJ3117 - October 14, 2009
Yes!
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
if they can get him in the early 2nd round, sure. i like what i’ve seen from him.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
I love McCoy. he has great leadership, he started all 4 years of College, has great legs and speed, 75% accuracy, has had a very successful career, seems intelligent, and has the height with good arm strength. I would love to take him if he’s available by the second round. Probably not but I would take him before Bradford.
The Licensed Pessimist - October 14, 2009
a few mock draft sites are saying he could possibly fall to the early 2nd round. you never know. if the browns really wanted him, they could always trade down i guess.
emily522 - October 16, 2009
Shouldn't the motto be..
..“The best way to get out of football purgatory is messing with LeBron James. But hurry, you only have a few months to do it, because LeBron is signing somewhere else next summer.”
I guess that’s kind of long.
ELGee - October 14, 2009
And incorrect…
Bernie19Kosar - October 14, 2009
That’s neither funny nor original.
Buckeye Brad - October 14, 2009
what a douche
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
if anyone’s on mocking the draft, there are some of these “how to fix X team” fanposts, like for the raiders and cowboys. someone should make one for the browns. i would, but i don’t know enough to make one haha.
emily522 - October 14, 2009
might have to be a several part series for the browns…
DontCallMeJoey - October 14, 2009
haha, very true
emily522 - October 14, 2009
I’m thinking about it but I want to see if Quinn is traded
First
TheRealSlimShady - October 14, 2009
So, it’s a coincidence that BQ put his home up for sale the same week DA goes 2/17 and Mangini states that DA is still the starter? Unlike most of youz guys BQ knows how and when to buy a clue.
elsandito - October 14, 2009
Unlike most of us?
Roger Dorn - October 14, 2009
Create a survey and we’ll vote on how many of us think BQ will be traded before the deadline or before the start of next season.
elsandito - October 14, 2009
Those are two completely different things. I don’t see him getting traded before the deadline, but he could very well be traded in the offseason.
Buckeye Brad - October 14, 2009
I do not think he will be traded before the deadline.
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Nor do I. Of course, I wouldn’t have predicted Braylon’s sudden departure either, so what do I know….
RelapsingDawgCatcher - October 15, 2009
I think the thing that BQ figured out is that its a bad economy and he isn’t going to be the starter in the next several weeks. This kills his opportunity for endorsements in the short term and cuts his salary for the year in half. If you don’t make serious life changes in that situation, there is something wrong. Downsizing his house makes a ton of sense.
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2009
More "draft a QB" talk. uggg
Brownie's Year - October 14, 2009
TRYING TO SELL A BRIDGE
I remember when B.Edwards was saying how everybody was buying into Mangini system. Then all of a sudden he’s in NY. B.Quinn in case no one told you, your skins are waiting.
Nuts4359 - October 14, 2009
I still think he gets traded. Just my feel. If they can get two picks for him, he is a goner. Mangini will have no problem having Ratcliff filling in.
I hope he does get traded, better for him and the Browns.
Grockcubs - October 14, 2009
Is DAon display as trade bait, seeing as he is starting?
Now, if he would perform a little bit, and a team was desperate enough, he could be offloaded for another 3rd and 4th round pick plus a 3rd string QB.
He was a pro-bowler.
Offload him and we no longer have a problem.
Brady can hand off just as well as the pro-bowler.
tribe71 - October 14, 2009
maybe a season ticket holder should take one for the team and pick a fight with DA. Then we’d have another guy in the same boat as last week, with the same alleged potential, and he’d be out of here by Sunday @ 1 PM.
tribe71 - October 14, 2009
The Merman lives on Avon Lake?
raven - October 14, 2009
The draft is the most exciting time of the year for me
And its safe to say its going to be a GREAT class. and a very exciting draft. Especially compared to last year which was for the most part very lacking of talent for most positions. I can’t wait
The Licensed Pessimist - October 14, 2009
I like how “Cutler puts house up for sale” is a related fanpost!
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2009
I like how “Cutler puts house up for sale” is a related fanpost!
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2009
I like how "Cutler puts house up for sale" is a related fanpost!
Bernie19Kosar - October 15, 2009
I like how “Cutler puts house up for sale” is a related fanpost!
Roger Dorn - October 15, 2009
Really?!?! me too!!
Ryan Kelsey - October 15, 2009
quinn
I’ve watched browns from the outside for over 20 years being a cowboys fan . 2 for 17 by DA isnt going to cut it . Look atthe defenses Brady had to go against in the 1st 3 weeks . Minnesota’s def is awesome . Broncos defense is very good . Bengals defense is real good . But before you want to get to the playoffs you better get a better offense line or neither Qb is going to make it . Put Brady in with theteamthat nearly made the playoffs bet yeah they still end up with the samerecord or better .
~~banditwolf~~ - October 15, 2009
You must be watching the Browns from waaaay outside… like maybe Newark or Kalamazoo ;-). The Browns have 2 maybe 3 pro-bowl caliber O linemen. How many teams can boast that? True you can’t say every guy is the best at his position but that is unrealistic. I don’t think you can fault the O-line this year as a source of problems for the Browns offense.
Brownsyup - October 15, 2009
The first two weeks of the season, the right side of the line (St Clair in particular) was horrendous. I can see where someone would get the idea that our line is awful.
golanbatrac - October 15, 2009
And now everyone thinks Dumervil is the second coming of LT because he posted 4 sacks against St. Clair.
rufio - October 16, 2009
…on a completely unrelated note.
rufio - October 16, 2009
Who cares what defenses he has faced the point is he is not making his reads!! You cant tell me for 2.5 games the only person open was the running back. He had no confidence, and his team knew it. They were going thru the motions and werent playing under his leadership. Now that may be the coaching staffs fault, or how he has had so many coordinators or whatever else we can think up but if you are scared to throw the ball in this league you are a goner!!!! Go DA, Go McCoy,
cfields - October 15, 2009
Please use the reply button. Nobody has any idea what comment you’re referring to.
Buckeye Brad - October 15, 2009
Uggghhh you again! Do you sit at a computer all day just waiting on things to criticize? This comment was posted under the main heading of QUINN look two spots above me and you will see, very simple logic. Hope that helps ya.
cfields - October 15, 2009
you lose.
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2009
Its no less annoying if you can (kind of) tell where it belongs in the conversation.
rufio - October 16, 2009
So, at least BQ was hitting the backs…DA is only hitting the turf (see last week’s TWO for 17 performance). You have confidence in THAT?! Leadership?! DA can’t even lead a receiver, nor the team into the end zone! WTF are you smoking and where do I get some?! What games are you people watching where you see ‘improvement’ in the offense? SIX points against the BILLS!
guambrownsfan - October 17, 2009
What about the Cincy game? Our offense looked much better in that game than in the first three when Quinn was the starter.
I’m not saying DA is the answer, but he’s certainly looked better than Quinn so far this year. That’s not even debatable.
Buckeye Brad - October 17, 2009
The numbers are what they are…2009 season stats to-date.
G Rat A C % Yds Y/G Y/A TD INT
Derek Anderson 3 39.0 39 84 46.4 384 128.0 4.6 1 5
Brady Quinn 3 62.9 45 74 60.8 400 133.3 5.4 1 3
This season should have never been about ‘winning now’, it should have been about developing young players, instilling confidence in a young QB with potential to be a long-term starter, and a focus on somehow reinforcing our NCAA D-III talent defense.
We actually can debate which QB has looked better, who has played tougher defenses, etc., but none of that fixes the root of the problem, which is Quinn’s confidence is shot and he will likely never recover in a Browns uniform under idiot Mangina’s regime, and DA is NOT a solution to ANYTHING. So, we’ll be back at the top of the draft board again next year, although we’ll probably trade down for a guard, in an attempt to once again ‘rebuild’. We fans need to stop tolerating this embarassment of an ownership group, coaching staff, and ‘team’…We deserve better!
guambrownsfan - October 17, 2009
Using the word “Mangina” makes you sound like an immature moron. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep that up.
And if all you’re going to do is endlessly complain about the Browns and everything associated with them then please go somewhere else. We want intelligent football discussion here, not whining and name-calling.
Buckeye Brad - October 17, 2009
Oh, stats are whining?! Hmmm…I thought that is what was used to guage performance. Again, as I said in the other thread, I didn’t realize you were the moderator, and I indeed await your empty replies that have nothing to do with somebody proving that you’re wrong. But as I go through the boards, I see that you do that each and every time someone refutes you.
I have been a fan of this team for nearly all of my 39 years, so I have EVERY right to complain about the past 10 years! Complacent idiots such as yourself that tolerate this continued failure is what allows it to continue. Satisfaction with a QB rating of 15.1 is NOT acceptable….But I forgot, you don’t discuss stats, just political correctness. You’re a MORON!
guambrownsfan - October 17, 2009
The only reason I mentioned that I was a moderator is because YOU brought it up, but that’s irrelevant. Other people also asked you to stop using “Mangina”.
I never said anything about political correctness; I just told you that nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep talking like an immature child and calling people names. But keep it up and see how people on here respond.
Buckeye Brad - October 17, 2009
i’m shocked that you think the fans have anything to do with what happens on a football field.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2009
Fixed.
RelapsingDawgCatcher - October 17, 2009
I was surprised when Quinn go benched as early as he did. I figured that he’d get at least half the season to prove something. But if Mangini was willing to make that move at that point, how likely is he to stand by Anderson for much longer? And if he flips back to Quinn, will it matter?
I hate the idea of going QB shopping again, but right now it seems that whether we play Anderson or Quinn, “that ain’t no Carson Palmer back there.”
JustBob - October 15, 2009
Hah! I like the Palmer quote…
I think the move to play Anderson demonstrates that coach Mangini would like to win games this year. The point of the team playing is to win games, not necessarily to give QBs “a chance”. A new coach has to create some wins especially when a team has a long string of defeats and a punishing schedule. I’m thinking we may just see Quinn again before the end of the year. Consider – would it be a good idea to leave Quinn in when he is struggling when this is the most difficult part of our schedule? True, Buffalo is terrible but all the rest of the teams in the first 9 games are tough.
Start Quinn again (if Anderson doesn’t perform) against the Lions and he’d have a couple of tough games but also Chiefs, Raiders and Jags. Just thinking out loud here.
Brownsyup - October 15, 2009
I still don’t see the value in Quinn. He couldn’t win the tough games at Notre Dame. We still have two back up quarterbacks the equal of Frye. We have gained nothing since that trade.
Trade Quinn now, while he still has “possibilities”, then work on free agents and/or drafting a quarterback.
Paul Fulton - October 15, 2009
That’s completely meaningless. We’ve talked about this many times — you can’t judge a QB by wins and losses. Notre Dame didn’t win the big games when Quinn was there because their defense was bad, not because of anything Quinn did wrong.
Also, both Quinn and DA are much more talented than Charlie Frye and it’s not even close.
Buckeye Brad - October 15, 2009
rufio - October 16, 2009
Perfect!
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2009
Stop it. Please, stop it!
This picture makes me sick.
Simmsinns - October 17, 2009
my eyes… they burn!
emily522 - October 17, 2009
thats crazy, trade quinn, anderson isnt getting it done since the offensive line started blocking. one win w/ field goals come on!!!
irishbuckeye - October 26, 2009
Pick up a proven QB in the offseason
The browns need to draft a QB in the 2-3rd round and work out a deal with a good QB like the Bears and Vikings did during the off-season.
lost dog - October 15, 2009
maybe sage rosenfels would look good in orange and brown…
DontCallMeJoey - October 15, 2009
If it were so easy every team would have a proven QB.
TheRealSlimShady - October 15, 2009
Wasn’t that the plan with Garcia and Dilfer?
JustBob - October 17, 2009
THATS CRAZY TALK, BRADY QUINN IS OUR QB!!! WE NEED A COACH THATS NOT GOING TO PANIC !!!!
irishbuckeye - October 26, 2009
I guess I was thinking less of a chance for Quinn as I was thinking a chance to find out if he can be developed. Sure, coaches are supposed to win some games, but I would think that there has to be some consideration given to long-term strategy as well. I just want to know that he can be firmly ruled out before the Browns start looking for a 2010 starter. I’m assuming that it won’t be Anderson unless he shows some considerable development between now and the end of the season.
JustBob - October 17, 2009
this is very easy to say now…but if we were 0-6 and quinn continued to look like he did in the first three games the city would be ON FIRE with fury for mangini’s handling of the qb situation. you have to at least give the appearance of trying to win…
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2009
I think the trading deadline is a misnomer. I would assume it´s more of an inventory date for the NFL organisation. As far as I´m concerned it signals the start of the next trading cycle.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
No, it’s an actual deadline. Teams are not allowed to make any more trades after that date until the offseason.
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
I think everyone is wrong and the NFL is fraudulent in getting everyone to believe this.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
Legendary.
Ryan Kelsey - October 16, 2009
+1
rufio - October 16, 2009
So the NFL is wrong about its own rule?
Wow, that’s a classic.
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
They´re not wrong. They are misleading.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
Dude, they’re the ones who made the rule. How is that misleading?
That’s like saying that the US government is “misleading” when they say you have to be 21 to purchase alchohol. They made the law so how is that misleading? It’s the rule they adopted, and the NFL adopted a trading dealine.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
You’ve got to pick your battles. I’d let this one go, not because he’s right, but because it’s just so damn amusing.
Simmsinns - October 17, 2009
Awesome.
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2009
Bills congratulating Browns on victory; do not trade Quinn yet
Congratulations Browns’ fans for the win on last Sunday’s game against the Bills. Since I am a Bills fan, I am man enough to acknowledge your victory and shake your hand in my defeat. This Sunday will honestly test your quarterback Anderson ‘s courage and fortitude. Anderson always came close in 3 tries beating the Pittsburgh Steelers, let’s see what he can do here. I still say he’s your quarterback of your team’s future like it or not. Let me share some history with you, since the AFL/NFL merger, any quarterback that played for Cleveland and won a playoff game or went to the AFC Championship Game was over the height of 6’4" ,fact. As far as Brady Quinn, I would not trade him just yet; neither Quinn or Anderson could finish the year healthy or finish winning. Nor would I draft another quarterback either for that matter. Mangini going to draft players just like Belichick did in New England; stack many draft picks in order to build the team faster (last time I checked, Mangini will have 11 draft picks next year). Mangini will manage the team like Belichick also, build your defense first, your offense second, with more seasoned veterans with playoff experience coming later. I hope your fans throughout OHIO will be patient to build a winning team in years to come. Just like my team Buffalo, we share the same grief; both on the lake, rust belt cities, very passionate fans, were destined for failure. As far as next years’ draft, pick Eric Berry or Brandon Spikes, once again you need more southern college players to play in your cold stadium weather. Cleveland have more success with southern college players in the past especially in the Schottenheimer era. HINT. HINT.
Hurricane$$ - October 16, 2009
I don’t think the 80s squads were heavily laden with “South” stars, they came from many colleges and conferences
talonk - October 16, 2009
We should levy his worth into getting players we want from other teams than the one he is going to.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
I envision this scenario:
We send Brady Quinn to his future franchise.
We reveal to that franchise which exact players we want to procure from other franchises.
To validate the trade, they must contact these franchises and get them to initiate sending us our choices in return for draft picks in 2010.
Quinn is gone, his new employer does not have to equivocate his value towards us, and we can involve franchises indirectly in mutually agreeable transfers.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
Seems reasonable, don’t see any reason why other franchsises wouldn’t partake in this swap.
Roger Dorn - October 16, 2009
What has Brady Quinn done that would make a team go through so much trouble to trade for him?
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
I would want the prospective franchise, to guarantee to get us for Brady Quinn:
RB Owen Schmitt, Seattle Seahawks
RB Brian Leonard, Cincinnati Bengals
RB Rodney Ferguson, Tennessee Titans
RB Brock Bolen, Jacksonville Jaguars
Whence we receive these prized commodities, I shall christen this quartet of unequivocal mayhem: “The Ground Hounds”.
In return the Browns are willing to negotiate whichever single draftpick they think is adequate from our 2010 draft slate.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
Your ideas are just sooo bizarre. You should go make a youtube video or something. Who knows, you might become the next Susan Boyle.
talonk - October 16, 2009
I´m too ugly for TV.
mooncamping - October 16, 2009
Ms Boyle isnt no model either.
talonk - October 16, 2009
You could overlay your voice on clips of the Browns discussing the changes that need to be made. I would subscribe to your Youtube channel.
Roger Dorn - October 16, 2009
Ditto!
RelapsingDawgCatcher - October 16, 2009
No kidding.
golanbatrac - October 16, 2009
Gold Jerry, gold!
Bernie19Kosar - October 16, 2009
How are we going to win games with a quartet of below-average running backs?
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
More importantly, how does he know anything about these guys? I have never heard of any of them except for Leonard.
Roger Dorn - October 16, 2009
I honestly think he looks at the roster of every team to find the players whose height and weight fits the profile he likes in a fullback (or whatever other position he wants to fill). That’s why he’s always bringing up these players who most people haven’t heard of and he’s always mentioning their build and body size.
Buckeye Brad - October 16, 2009
This is exactly what is going on.
rufio - October 16, 2009
Owen Schmitdt is the FB from West Virginia who hit himself with his helmet and gashed open his head. He is a good blocker, but I think he would cry if anyone made him carry the rock instead of blocking people.
I wouldn’t mind trading Vickers for him, but not Quinn. And it wouldn’t be like he’d turn our franchise around.
rufio - October 16, 2009
Yeah, the bloody forehead was unfortunate.
But when he usually bonks his head with his helmet, it´s not seen as a problem. Only this time he drew blood.
I don´t think it´s disconcerting. It´s just stupid is all. Stupid thing, not a dumb guy.
Here´s a nice tribute to him on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhrtLVUWhc0
The point I was making above, is exactly that sometimes you don´t want a comparable value, you never know what you´re going to get.
mooncamping - October 17, 2009
Actually, I am pretty sure it was on purpose. He definitely hit himself on purpose, I don’t see why he would have ruled out drawing blood. I don’t think he’s stupid, just pretty tough and pretty crazy.
He’s also known for breaking people’s facemasks while blocking, which I thought you’d appreciate.
You never want comparable value when you are trading, you want to get something better than what you gave away. You can’t just trade players away for random benchwarmers in the NFL. Sometimes random benchwarmers get a chance to show what they’ve got and they go off. Often, that is not the case.
rufio - October 19, 2009
i don’t understand what mooncamping is talking about at all lol
emily522 - October 16, 2009
Do what?
I do like Brock though, he’s a Louisville kid.
Villeslgr - October 17, 2009
well, from what i’ve watched of the texas-oklahoma game, i can say this:
a) sam bradford will not be declaring this year. if he does, i’ll be really surprised.
b) if he does, the browns better not take him.
c) colt mccoy didn’t impress me at all today. he’s still good, but definitely not as good as last year.
d) i don’t want the browns to take either of these these guys.
i’m going to watch some of missouri-ok. state to get a good look at zac robinson.
emily522 - October 17, 2009
robinson’s 17-22 with 181 yards and 1 TD at the half vs. missouri. and he doesn’t have dez bryant. i really like this guy. based on this game, his accuracy looks good and he has pretty solid arm strength. he’s also pretty mobile. if they can get him in like the 4th round, i think they should go for it.
emily522 - October 17, 2009
It’s a QB friendly offense, so beware of those numbers. He is a mobile guy, but I don’t want him earlier than the 4th.
rufio - October 19, 2009
they could probably get him in the 4th. i’m not a talent scout, so i could totally be wrong about this guy, though.
emily522 - October 19, 2009
it does look like he has a really good arm, though.
emily522 - October 19, 2009
Ryan Mallet.
Discuss.
Bernie19Kosar - October 17, 2009
If there is a better pure arm in the NCAA, I would love to see it.
Bernie19Kosar - October 17, 2009
Damn Arkansas kicker. Missed an easy FG and now Florida just made one to win the game. I hate Florida.
Buckeye Brad - October 17, 2009
florida got a ton of home calls on that last TD drive. the refs probably didn’t want to deal with the baby gators and baby tebow crying if they lost. or maybe they didn’t feel like hearing tebow give another speech about how he’ll “work hard the rest of the season”.
emily522 - October 17, 2009
isn’t he a sophomore?
emily522 - October 17, 2009
He sat out a year because he transferred from MIchigan.
Buckeye Brad - October 17, 2009
I like Mallet a lot more than either Bradford or McCoy. Maybe we take him in 2011.
golanbatrac - October 17, 2009
I really like what I’ve seen from Ryan Mallet so far, definitely has one hell of an arm.
But he does a full year of Michigan in him, though it was only back-up, that might not bode so well with the fans here. /sarcasm
Simmsinns - October 18, 2009
really really like mallett. a lot. where does he project to go?
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2009
Nowhere yet, he will probably go back to school.
rufio - October 19, 2009
Two things worry me:
1. Lack of experience. I heard someone quoting Bill Parcells about what he wants in a QB. Bill wanted a 4th year player and someone with 24 wins.
2. Lack of mobility. DA has a rocket arm, too. Mallet is big, which I like. I’d like to see him when he has to get out and move, or at least move around the pocket, which NFL defenses will make him do. I haven’t watched him closely enough to check this out yet.
I do like that Mallet looks good in the SEC, which has some pretty good defenses. I am worried that he struggled against Bama, who appears to have the best SEC defense, and made South Carolina deal with a lot of zone blitzes and made Garcia make quick decisions this past weekend. I think I might have taped Arkansas vs. Bama, and I want to review that tape.
rufio - October 19, 2009
I want that USC TE, he’s a beast!
talonk - October 17, 2009
man amongst boys. what a day.
DontCallMeJoey - October 18, 2009
brady
Thats what i like to hear, that Bradys sticking it out because this is his team, thats why we drafted him ,now let the guy get to work!!!
irishbuckeye - October 26, 2009
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